Have you ever heard the saying it takes a village to raise a child? The same principle can be applied to achieving success in life. This episode of Elements of Community explores how having meaningful connections with other women is essential for helping us reach our goals and dreams, no matter what they may be! Learn why creating lasting relationships within your community can be an invaluable tool for your path toward self-improvement and achievement.

Espree is a true artist who places integrity in her work when creating meaningful experiences for her community. She aims to help people build better connections and move towards becoming closer to their goals, free of fear.

Espree understands that social proof can be abused, often focusing too heavily on numbers as a success metric rather than our human relationships. As a leader, she believes that the basis of a great community relies upon fostering an environment where everyone feels included and respected throughout the process.

Pop-up communities provide us with unique opportunities to strengthen friendships, as Espree discovered through her involvement with Clubhouse--a platform dedicated to celebrating women and providing an open space for everyone’s voice to be heard. The power behind these kinds of communities lies in holding onto that sense of purpose long after it's over.

Other subjects we covered on the show:

• Espree Devora praised a previous podcast guest of the show and spoke of her admiration for Cam Kashani, who has become a leader in the Los Angeles's tech industry.
• Then, we discussed the difficulty of navigating career paths while maintaining fidelity to our values and beliefs.
• Espree shares her insight on the importance of following one's intuition as their "GPS in life."
• She also reflects on the curve ball question—when do you feel seen?
• Lastly, Espree encourages listeners to lean into their journeys and listen to their own intuition instead of relying on advice from outside sources.

AND MORE TOPICS COVERED IN THE FULL INTERVIEW!!! You can check that out and subscribe at https://pbp.li/eoc37.

If you want to know more about Espree Devora, you may reach out to her at:

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/espreedevora
• Instagram: espreedevora
• Email: Espree@hey.com

And not even the host, although she gives some love my way as well. She focuses first on someone else. And what she has to say in our interview is so heartwarming and so opening every single minute of it and don't miss a minute.

Right at the end in my three surprise questions, the ones that you know and love. Something big really comes out.

I mean, actually waiting for.

Stop. That's so sweet. Who was it?

it was Cam Kashani.

Oh my gosh. She's just the most amazing human on the planet, has overcome so much and shares everything that she's overcome with us to empower us and specifically to make women the best leaders that we could be. She's the most amazing human. I love Cam, how did you meet Cam? How did you come across, Cam?

Right, I love that you did that. Yeah.

And most of them accepted my invitation to connect and then didn't deepen that connection and,

Yeah.

you know, whatever it is, what it isn't. And a few of them looked for opportunities to deepen that connection. And Cam is one of them.

Mm-hmm. Sounds like Cam. She's so fantastic. Yeah. We've known each other for years. You know, she's responsible for Los Angeles becoming one of the top tech cities in the world, in the top three. It was her work sacrificing community efforts that built up Los Angeles to what it is today, known to be a tech city.

Whoa.

Yeah. She doesn't really talk about it anymore.

She does not.

But I was there for it, so I witnessed it. I saw her community work.

Yeah. I mean, I...

Tell me about that story.

Cam and I just messaged today, she's amazing. I mean, it's not a story she built Coloft. We met, I had my. I built the first action sports social network. So I had an office with a movie theater in Santa Monica and I used to host this event series called Entrepreneurs Anonymous. And it was a place to not name badge one another, but just be humans together.

And her and her business partner showed up, I didn't know that.

I love that. Just together.

Right. And they were building what now we all know is co-working, but at the time, like co-working was only in San Francisco and it wasn't this known thing. So her and her co-founder were building a co-working space a few blocks away.

And one of the things that she kept repeating was, you know, people over profit, like always serve community first over she, it didn't matter. She's a businesswoman. It was important to build a smart company, but the people were a priority, and then she just trusted the other pieces would work out as long as she built intelligently, and I always just really respected that.

And so yeah, she's amazing and continues to be amazing. But now her focus isn't on LA Tech or tech, her focus is on women empowering women to be the best that we can be, and to bring us to a really strong point of leadership, not get in our own way.

Yeah. She talked a little bit about that in her episode probably three months ago, four months ago maybe. She was just like, yeah, I'm really just focusing on this women networking thing. And I was like, this is kind of cool. And I don't see the whole story. And Espree, you're helping me see a lot more of the story.

Hmm. Well, thank you.

Yeah.

Very cool. And thank you Cam, cuz I'm sure you'll listen to this one. Wow. Yeah, she did not, and I didn't a apparently I didn't effectively sing her praises, but here you are, and thank you for that.

The media called her the godmother of Silicon Beach.

Whoa.

Yeah.

Damn.

Yeah. Like the biggest publications, and she earned every last syllable, you know, like, she's amazing. I'm really grateful that she's in my life.

Very cool. Thank you for sharing that. What an amazing story.

Oh my gosh. Well, I'd have to must her up confidence to have the same level of excitement, but I'm happy to share about myself.

Well, may I presence it a little for you?

Sure. Sure. Thanks.

You just shared some pretty amazing things about Cam and pointed out that she does not waste her time.

Mm-hmm.

And she said some pretty amazing things about you. So if I may, what would Cam say about you?

Oh fuck. She'd probably love that you asked me that. Ah, okay. Cam would say I might cry.

I'm here for it.

She would say that I also helped build Los Angeles into a top tech city. I think we did the work together, and she would say that anybody that would get to be friends with me is very lucky.

Hmm. Wow. Those are beautiful words. Now may I make a request?

I made up the words in my head. They're not the words I tell myself.

Yeah. May I request that, at least for the rest of this interview, that you are exactly that woman?

I'm, you know, to add to that story a little bit, I'm being considered for a board role right now, and in order to get it, I had to ask for some letters of recommendation and one of the letters that I. Just like you, when I read through it, it actually, it teared I said, wow.

I mean, this is beautiful and this is a side of me that I don't see.

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. If we could all become our own best friends, I don't know. I think some people are their own best friends. A little bit too much . If I could become my own best friend, that would probably be a really good thing. But it's all a journey.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I mean, you could let them know that I was a mess and a half in the green room and you thought that the interview maybe would be best for me if it didn't happen. But I shared that I'm totally fine, and happy to show up as I am that I am just being a human and not every day is perfect.

Yeah. Neither am I, you know, being completely fair, I did not see mess in a half.

Oh, thank you.

That's not what I saw.

I appreciate it. Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. This might be a Cam moment for you. I saw a beautiful person showing up in their full energy, and as a human carrying some of their baggage. And that's okay cuz trust me, I got plenty of my own, too.

Hmm.

As a business person, I feel that living authentically could sometimes hurt you in business or hurt you in business, period. I'm not sure. So that's what I'm saying to be determined. In 10 years, I'll let you know.

Yeah, I think it won't.

I hope so.

Think that we, I think we've spent a hundred years building up a facade.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But again, it's just a facade. It's not true. And I think that everybody knows, even if they pretend otherwise, everybody knows that the person they're doing business with, the person they're shaking hands with, the person they're sharing a glass of wine with, is also just a human.

Yeah.

And

when the facade slips, that's, I think that's actually okay.

I hope so

Maybe, it's better.

I hope so. I don't know if there's brands that choose not to work with me or et cetera, et cetera, because my openness can be perceived as a you know, a flight risk or something, you know, but the reality is that we are all experiencing these things. The only difference is that I'm open about it.

And so, it's this weird world of perfectionism.

Mm-hmm. Because I get so many messages in the dms of like, I haven't, like from people saying, I haven't engaged and I haven't like interacted, but I want you to know for years, your posts have really made me feel empowered. I'm like, that's wild.

Hm.

You know, like no immediate feedback for years.

And then just like, you know, a few years forward, someone's like, your vulnerability really made a difference in my life. Like that's a trip, you know, and you start to wonder.

And it was so lovely. Now, I don't know if that brand will end up working with me or not, but I felt successful that she felt safe to be her. And I felt it was an honor to get to know who she is rather than just this executive front, you know? So it's just this weird. It's a weird world, but that same meeting, she could end up working with someone who speaks more her economic executive language than someone like me, because I'm more in like the heartfelt bucket.

Yep, I get that, I do, and I think that there are just as many other brands that are not interested in somebody who's just numbers and they're more interested in somebody who gets those dms that says, you inspire me.

Hmm. T B D

T D B.

TB D, TB D. But yeah, but this is how this, I just, I'm gonna continue to show up authentically and hope that the universe will provide and and see what I see. But, cause I'm definitely a capitalist, I'm just like a heart driven capitalist. I used to joke earlier in my career, what'd I say? I called myself a hippie capitalist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm with you.

Yeah.

I'm with you. I'll share a little secret and now it's not a secret cuz you know, this is going live. I, me personally, I have struggled for the past probably three or four years with slowly changing my brand over from being like a hundred percent numbers business focused to, to be more heart-centered, to be more community capitalist.

Mm-hmm, do you mind if I ask what influenced this.

I don't mind , I'm, I was, you probably saw, and my listeners at this point have heard this plenty of times. I was on Wall Street for 17 years doing mergers and acquisitions and that is as far deep into, you know, the person who gets the money did it right.

Totally.

it go. Like, that's as deep as it goes. And I just couldn't stomach it anymore. So eight years ago I launched my own consulting company, and I left Wall Street and started picking up clients that were less there's no good term, like cutthroat businessmen, less like, I don't care how I got their businessmen.

Yeah.

But they were still big companies.

That's so cool.

It's so cool. And I've learned a lot from that relationship. And part of it is, I'm not interested in being a cutthroat executive, just not. And so it started when I left Wall Street when I just couldn't stomach being there anymore. And it's a continued evolution, but I struggle with it.

Just like what I hear from you is, you're struggling a little bit with it that, you know, I feel like every single time I go a little bit further into the community world, and boy, I'm all in now I feel like I'm leaving clients behind or potential clients.

Whereas I, like, I don't know, I was gonna say, it's not really a story of resilience, but like for me, I just have to have the courage to have faith. But like, I'm also not, I've had to walk a, not had to I could have stayed, but I've made a choice to walk away from certain deals. But I just feel like you had such kingdom of Deals.

You know? Whereas I'm like, I'm not even going over there, I'm just like off like Tom Hanks with the volleyball, like trying to stay afloat, you know? Yeah. So, I don't know. I kind of think it's harder. What you are doing, because it takes so much more I don't know. Conviction, I don't know what the right word is.

It just, it just feels harder to me.

Hmm. Thank you. I appreciate that. I've only ever experienced my journey, so, it's hard for me to compare them, but,

Yeah.

But certainly it wasn't easy.

So it's just very easy for me to make choices in alignment with my art. But I use the word easy lightly, which is why I paused, because there's a lot of suffering in being an artist. So, it's easy to speak my truth, and also extremely difficult to experience the reality of my truth. You know, like, so like I'll be very open...

What I'm hearing.

Oh yeah, go ahead.

I don't know if this is accurate, but what I'm hearing is that you're experiencing cutting off your ear for your art.

Yeah, yeah. Van? What?

You're you're having dolly moments.

It's Van Gogh? What was that?

It was Dolly. Yeah, yeah. Like I have the two sides of my brain.

There's nothing easy about that journey.

No, I have the two sides of my brain. Like, what are you doing? This doesn't make sense. And I'm like, my intuitive side is like, shut up. Like I'm doing my art, you know, like, but like, I feel like if I was like in the kingdom, like you were, that what may be like a harder, harder thing to leave.

Like, I don't have time to go and ask a bunch of people who typically have a more transactional nature and then what can I get from these people and like suck at them. I'm like, everybody, stay off my people. Like they're not your like, things to like put your tentacles into they are human beings and stay the fuck away.

And 2023 is the year where I want to create and be an artist and be okay too. Like every year before now was self-sacrificing and [00:24:00] now it's like, yes, I wanna create my art and be okay too. And so I put a call out for sponsors for this thing I have going on Sunday. And it's been really interesting the kind of conversations I've been having and how I show up to the conversations because I made a choice.

If I'm going to have a sponsored relationship, I'm going to authentically be me because I don't want any resentment in the relationship. I don't want anyone trying to capitalize off my people all this stuff. And it may mean I get no sponsors. And so it's just been which has been difficult because, you know, the art side of me is like, I love what you've put together.

You know, like when you go to a conference, like a lot of people will be like, oh, what am I gonna get out of that event? Or get out of that conference? But the thing that you usually get out of a conference is completely unknown. It's absolute serendipity.

You cannot predict it. It's not possible. Like, and so I feel like expecting that I can understand the return of this artistic thing that I intuitively feel should be done before it happens is unrealistic of me. And I need to just trust in the process that it's all gonna make sense. You know, 10, 20, 30 years from now.

I love that. That is so cool.

And difficult. But thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. What an amazing story.

Hence why brand...

story that you're living now.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but the way I work makes it extremely difficult for a brand to work with me, because I am not a surface level person. And to have transactional relationships it's a requirement to have all the surface level stuff.

Because you're Dolly.

Thank you. It's a very big compliment.

That's so cool.

I kept Dolly

in my house. That's funny.

No way.

No, like a copy. Oh, I don't know the names of it. Like, one was given as a gift and one I bought, I think when I was in Spain. But like but not like a, you know, like fandom kind of stuff.

Oh, nice. That's cool. Where'd they go?

I Also copies, I, you know, you live in the modern world and move for your work and things don't survive the moves, and, you know, you replace them with something else.

Totally.

Yeah. I, again, another little secret that I typically don't tell people. In the last 15 years, I've moved 17 times.

What? That's more than once a year.

More than once a year.

Where are you going?

Yeah. Yeah, right. totally valid question. And what's really crazy about that is that for four and a half years I didn't move at all. So.

Oh, so it was multiple.

That's 16 moves in 11 years.

Wow. Wow. Have you had a good time adventuring about?

Yeah. Agree. Yeah. I'm a backpacker too, so I get it. I've been to over a hundred countries for the Women in Tech podcast and I love it, but it's not a vacation.

Not a vacation. That's so cool.

Yeah. So I get it. Like I understand. It's like magnificent and just then you're absolutely tired and someone's like, what do you mean you are in Malaysia?

How could you be tired? I'm like, I have no idea. like,

Yep. Yep. Speak in the same language here. Yep. Wow. Fun. This has been not what I expected and I'm loving it.

Oh, good. I'm so glad.

How would you talk about your art through the lens of community? And use my words or don't.

Yeah.

Artist of human Connection.

And then it's the first thing they cut because they never valued it in the first place, which is heartbreaking because you wouldn't even have a company or profit if it wasn't for the people. And so the thing that you care, like the thing that really drove me crazy at the beginning of the pandemic was people being like, oh my gosh, we need to start having a campaign where we care about our customers.

I'm like, what? Why don't you care about your customers before the pandemic? What's wrong with you? You know, like all a sudden you need to show you care. Like, that's so weird. So for me, this sense of the word artist really resonates with me even more than the word community. And it's just about what energy do I wanna innovate at each experience I create?

All of my events that I create are for the tech industry. So I create for both women in tech and then, globally, and then just for Los Angeles Tech in LA and that's everyone, not just women. And so with every, like, this particular gathering that I've created for Sunday is Women in tech.

Oh yeah.

It's cool, right? I'm putting all sorts of things in place to ground our energy, foster that meaningful connection.

Everything I do is invite only because I always make sure everybody's the right culture fit. I wanna make sure they're not pizza eater, tire kickers. Like I'm looking for people who genuinely are showing up, not trying to eat a free slice of pizza. I usually don't have alcohol at my stuff because I'm not looking to throw a party.

I'm looking to create and foster meaningful relationships that accelerate business. People wanna do business with people they know, like, and trust, not someone from a business card. And so, and my favorite people to serve are people who are relatively unknown, like let's say you have no Twitter following.

And they're wrong. They're all wrong.

Totally wrong. Yeah, oh, go ahead.

I don't know a single person who actually knows 10,000 people. Like, I don't know anyone who actually knows 10,000 people.

I feel like Gary Vaynerchuk actually knows 10,000 people. He remembers everyone's name. It's weird.

That would be impressive. And I don't personally know Gary V. So the statement's still true. I've heard the same thing of Bill Clinton, by the way that you meet him and then like three years later you meet him again and he remembers your name and the name of your kid.

That's so crazy. I don't know what area in the brain. You have to have to have that be possible.

Yeah. That is impressive. I mean, I could answer that question, but I don't think it's, I think that's a podcast for another time, but yes.

Perhaps we should put it on the books.

But yeah, yesterday was at a conference and this guy that I've known for a while was with his girlfriend and he goes, you don't understand. And he's a Forbes 30 under 30 and like all these like status indicators. Really nice guy. And he goes to his girlfriend, you don't understand, Espree, gave us our first shot.

Like people really like giving, you know, entrepreneurship. They're all with the right heart and they're not gross or scummy and they have values and they're kind. I was telling him yesterday, I love that he and his co-founder treat their girlfriend so well. You know, like I look for values and characteristics when I'm seeing who can be a part of the community, I'm not looking for status marks.

Wow. Yeah, more of that, please, for those of you who are listening, more of that please.

It's hard to, but it's hard. That's what I'm saying. That is hard to economically support from brands.

Only right now.

I don't know, maybe, TBD.

Only right now. I think it's changing. I think it needs to change.

T B D, we shall see. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I just, I'd love to, I mean, if there is a universe that exists, I'd love you know, for the universe to show me signs that like, you know, all these choices that I've made to prioritize integrity over the years that there is room for me to prosper. And capitalism as well, you know, so we shall see.

Yeah. Well, you know, to the gods and consumers that are listening, here's my plea. Let's make sure that this artist doesn't starve until she dies.

Thank

Like, let's buy her art while she's alive.

Right, right. So crazy. There's this musician I love, I know this isn't exactly about your podcast, but.

Let's do it.

Like, showing up and having a chat about community with some dude.

Well, I think maybe a lot of people do stuff like that, but that's funny. But it, I don't have a lot of examples of people making the same type of choices as me. And so there's this musician named Ren, who my friend sent me on new Year's Eve actually. And he's an independent artist. He was once signed by Sony, but he got sick with Lyme disease.

Like he said this one thing in the last few weeks where a lot of his fans have said that they don't want him to do rap because he's this other kind of genre, I can't think of, I don't know that much about music, but he's a singer genre, so they don't want him to do rap or what, you know, and he is like, look, I'm an artist and I need to follow my creativity and I need to push myself, and I'm curious about rap.

So I'm going to do rap and you know, hopefully you'll be along for my journey. And if you're not, you're not. But I need to serve myself as an artist in order to show up as authentically as I do and not do things based on what society wants, because then I wouldn't be creating the magic that you're experiencing.

What am I doing? You know? And then I see something like that and it really empowers me to be like, nah, just stay true to my art. It will make sense eventually, hopefully.

I love it. Okay, let me try something.

Yeah.

Pop-ups are a thing.

Yeah.

Most people think of community from a relatively long-term perspective, but I don't think that that's required.

Agree. Actually, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's a thing, right? Long-term communities, they're a thing, but I don't think it's required.

Yeah.

Your events are, as an artist, what you're creating is a pop-up community.

Agree.

The work is dropping their boundaries. And right now, today, in the world, that is actually work. It's hard. Like we have to do something to drop the boundaries, to drop the facade, to be human right there, connected with that person in front of us. unfortunately, but true.

Yes.

That's work in itself. It's work in what they have to do to be there and they share the story, that language of the event. And the essence of community shows up when you miss the people after it's over. Like, that is the essence of community. And so on Monday morning or Tuesday morning after your event is finished and they're calling you up, or they're sending you dms and saying, Yeah. I wish it had lasted another day or two or five, that's how you know that what you created was a real pop-up community and not just a conference, not just an event, not just, yeah.

That's cool. That's so true. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Community is when you miss the experience. Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, I was the face of Clubhouse, which is a crazy fact about life. The app, the audio app. And so many of us miss the community that once was with Clubhouse. Like, it was like a popup community now looking back because there was a certain period of time where it was just like nothing else that we'd ever experienced.

It's interesting.

Very cool. It is interesting. I'm sorry. You miss it. How will you bring that back? How will you bring that connection, that pop-up community, the meaningful deep that you had with those people?

Oh, I don't think it's something that you can bring back. I think some things in life are just to experience while they're there. And if you miss it, then it's gone forever. And I think the idea of missing, I once had to break up with a boyfriend that like really meant a lot to me because one of his like life ideals wasn't aligned with my life ideals and I just knew it wasn't the right match.

But it doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to continue.

Mm. Yeah. I love it. That's true. Doesn't have to continue. Yeah. Amazing.

So, where will you take community?

Yeah. I have two really big goals and they're big.

I'm excited. I'm ready.

The first one is an over goal. The people who are using the word are using it wrong, and I want to take it back. I don't think that they're allowed to have it anymore.

Yeah.

The word community? That's cool. I support in those efforts.

Yeah I won't take it back. I'm sick of hearing politicians say, blah, blah, blah, the community, blah, blah, blah.

They're not, no, they can't have it anymore. That's wrong. I'm sick of seeing it on large multinational corporations marketing ads like, no. Mm-hmm. You can't have it. That's not your word. It's not for you.

Yeah. I agree with that? So loudly.

And in order to do that, I have to do the other thing, which is a little bit more covert, and not because I want to hide it, but because it's just not capable of being as over. I think that the reason that people are stealing the word misusing it is cuz most people have forgotten what it means.

And we could treat community as a verb as much as a noun. I think that there are a lot of people who are not doing community cuz they've lost it.

Yeah, I can see that.

And in order to do that I have to tell stories cuz that's the way people connect with a message is through stories. So I'm telling my story in community and I'm also, Espree, I'm here hosting you, and helping you tell your story, so that you get to hear it through my eyes.

Mm-hmm.

But also so that the people who are my listeners can start to engage with community in a new way.

Mm-hmm. Do you think, I mean, your listeners may, because your listeners have respect for you and your ecosystem in general, let's say a non listener who's listening to your content, so not someone within your ecosystem, do you really think they'll care so much because people are usually out for themselves and what betters them.

And I'm using sort of battle language cuz that's kind of the way we think about the world and it's not inappropriate. We need brothers and sisters that will hold our shield and spear and that will protect us with theirs. We actually need it. But the thing that so many people are focused on is not wrong.

Mm-hmm. I think one of the hardest lessons I learned about being a community organizer was that the, a community needs a leader. So many times people will propose that they'll self-organize, but typically they don't. And there was something really, like we are LA Tech that we was really important to me.

And so I thought that was a really interesting learning of community is to truly foster a great community, you need to have a great leader at the helm to guide everyone where to go and what the culture is and what the core values are and what the guidelines are. And to truly and utterly, deeply wanna see people like when they walk in the door.

And whether you have a thing of like a few hundred people or 10, you are paying attention to every last one of those people to make sure no one's in the corner feeling like, Ugh, what am I doing here? Can I leave? Like, I can't be here right now. This is so awkward. Why'd I even leave my house? Like all those uncomfortable feelings or like, ah, did I wear the right clothes?

You know? It bothers me that a community needs a leader, cuz I think like the best thing would be no leader because then it's a true collective, a true we, but I also get it. It's like, I don't know, like I've been saying this whole thing. Yeah. An artist painting a painting, you know?

Yeah.

May I share a metaphor that you can settle in on?

Yeah

Hmm

And I take it as far back as I can to look at the animal, the human animal, and how did we play when we had you know, sharpened sticks, and rocks.

Hmm.

And we were still hunters then too. We weren't scavengers. Perhaps we scavenged some, but we were still hunters.

Yeah.

And it turns out that in order for a human, we're not very fast. We're not very strong. In order for a human to successfully hunt down an animal, there needs to be a whole bunch of us hunting together. We need to out. Now here's what's gonna be fun for you, I think, I think.

Mmm.

In that moment. But in order for the hunting party to succeed, every single one of those people must be suitable for leadership in any moment.

Mmm.

So what I'm hearing from you, and this is my offering, what I'm hearing from you is, the piece of every single one of us must be suitable for leadership in any moment.

I hear that and I agree, and at any given moment, maybe only one of us can see the prey and that's the one that needs to be the leader in that moment.

Hmm.

How's that?

Hmm. Thank you. It is heart's work

Yeah.

It's not just hard work, it's heart's work.

I've never heard that term. Look at you. Heart's work. I've never heard that. That's cool. Did you make that up or did you hear it somewhere?

Just in the moment.

I like it. You should use it more often. I'm doing the heart's work.

Thank you.

I'm doing the heart work. I don't know. Anyway, I like the way you said it.

Yeah. My offering is, you see the prey as the artist. The picture that you're painting, the human connection that you're creating through those events, you are the one that sees the prey, and at least for the moment, that means that you need to be the leader.

Hmm. Sure. Yes. I'm open to that for this conversation, keeping in mind that we are hunter animals.

Yeah. But no, I really appreciate how you're framing it and what you said. It's a very interesting perspective.

Fun. I love it. I love what you're doing.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

As I'm wrapping up, I typically wrap up with three questions. The first one is the most obvious, the people who were as inspired by you as I am.

How do they find you?

And then they think they were rejected. My friend Jennifer wrote me a message a few weeks ago, had no idea. I was searching my inbox for something else, and then I see that she sent me this message. I'm like, get out. Like, I was like, this is just a perfect example of like, it's not personal. Probably 99.9% of the time someone just literally didn't even see that you messaged on any channel.

But Yeah.

amazing. Yeah, that.

But if Jennifer wrote me weeks ago and I didn't see it like then we're just missing emails because I would've responded, Jennifer, in like five seconds. So, yeah.

Yeah. Well, yeah. So you all heard it. If you're feeling it, reach out.

Yeah, a hundred percent. If you don't hear back follow up, it's all on the follow up game. Just don't be annoying. There's this thing that and what I mean by that, there's this thing in tech culture where you don't accept no for an answer. And so then you, it's like borderline harassment and essentially don't ignore someone's humanness.

The thing that drives me out of my mind is when someone sends me a compliment and then right in the next few sentences, like, so can I be on your show? And I'm like, so you weren't actually sending me a compliment. You just were trying to say something nice that might even be bullshit. Just so you could have something for you and your ego.

And that's really hurtful. Like you're aware that I'm a human, right? Like, it's just, just like care about people's humanness. It's not all about like an agenda and what you have going on. We're all experiencing something different. Some people may not like someone, some people may like them, some people may not get the email, whatever.

That's amazing. That's really good advice. It took me a while to start listening to mine.

It's tough, right? Because it doesn't feel like any logic's attached. Yeah.

Yeah. Why should I listen to that? I don't see why. That's right.

Yeah. My friend, I'm not gonna say who to respect his privacy. My friend is building this amazing company and it will probably end up being a billion dollar company. He has these outstanding partners and he makes, I think, almost all of his decisions, if not all of his decisions on intuition. So if he has a gut feeling that he just randomly has to go to New York.

Like things that are just insane. They've been based off of intuition. It's so cool. It's so inspiring.

That's so cool.

Yeah.

I hope someday someone tells a story like that about me.

So cool.

This weird dude that just listens to his intuition, and it's working.

And this, and this happened. What's the, before we, before we completely close, what's the most recent thing that, where you followed your intuition and it worked out?

Well.

Can you of one?

And what was it, two and a half weeks ago you were like, hey, good job on your follow up game, let's do it.

It's true. I have just been all on social media. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. You weren't weird at all. I don't remember any, like obviously I'm here. I don't remember any kind of weirdness, you know, like, there's someone who followed up with me inappropriately and like that person I proactively would like to not know.

Mm-hmm.

Super, super interesting.

do. I get it.

Yeah. Well, thank you for the opportunity, Lucas. This has been really special. And again, I know you said, you didn't think I was like too much before in the green room, but I just thank you for not holding what I perceive against me. I, you guys, I was late. I was like, I was just, it was really, it was really, really hard today to like, to move, like some days, you know, when you struggle with anxiety, it's just, it's hard to move.

You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you for showing up. You were awesome.

Thank you. You're so sweet. Thank you very much for the opportunity.

Yeah. Two more questions if I may.

Oh my gosh. Yes. I love it. Sorry. Yeah. I derailed us. Sorry.

No, that was awesome. Do not apologize. That was great. The second question that I close up with is, if there was any one question that you wish I had asked, what would it be?

Hmm.

Okay. This is what popped up for me instinctually, so, I don't know the answer rationally, and I don't even know what my answer would be, but the question would be, when do you feel seen?

Thank you.

It would need some, it would need some massaging, but I could see somebody building an entire podcast around just that.

Yeah.

Oh, I love that. That's fantastic. Well.

Yeah. Use it if like.

Yeah. Thenumber three question is, is that question Espree, when do you feel seen?

Oh, shit. I was, I was hoping I would skate by it. I wouldn't be asked. I was like, yes, I'm making it through. I could share the question, but I don't have to answer it. Oh man.

Okay. So I'm gonna give you the kind of like the backstory of like, where this question kind of came from. It was my 10 year anniversary for my company in August. And I...

Hey, congrats.

I just, I don't know, you know, I created this amazing event. I did not remember the event. Like it was amazing for everyone except for me. But I would do it all over again in that way, because the purpose of my organization is to serve. Anyway, I had this one guy there who's amazing, and he he's in tech.

And years ago he led a meditation at my app launch. And so I asked him, I ran into him at a tech event. I was like, oh my gosh, would you lead a short meditation at my tenure? That would be so full circle. So he did that and he, everyone saw that I was very stressed. It was a extremely hard day for me production.

It was something about, it was really sweet of him. But as I reflected on that question and on my life, I feel like I've always struggled to feel seen. And I think it's why I'm the artist that I am, because I experienced so much pain around feeling like that I'm not seen that I so desperately want everyone else to be seen.

We're all so quick to try to fix someone else. But like, what if we could just like be loving, like, you know what if nothing's actually wrong, we're just all experiencing the life journey, you know? And so I feel. And I don't know if it's, you know, just how I perceive myself or if it's indeed how others perceive me, but I perceive that others sometimes feel this need to like fix me if something's wrong.

This is probably like a soft flex or something. But it's not intended that way. I'm just sharing a story. But went out and I bought my, one of my friends who is another friend, a single mom of twins, all these moms of twins that I have as friends. I went out and went grocery shopping for her.

She didn't know. I just wanted to surprise her. It's like raining in Los Angeles who needs two kids, young kids. You're doing it all yourself to go out tromping in the rain. Like, I'm, I just want, you know, so I went grocery shopping and I brought her groceries and she's like, oh my gosh, you didn't have to do that.

But it's like those exact same words are why, like, you love me as well. So it's like, you know, and I love that about myself. I love that. You know, in the summer I produced 23 experiences in five weeks because that's what the art I wanted to create. But that same intensity like is how I'm gonna like, love my friends.

And I didn't have to be something or like to serve you in order to be loved. Like, my girlfriend didn't need me to bring groceries to her house in order to, she just like loves me, which made me like, wanna do that, you know? I really appreciate her love for me. She's so kind and so, yeah. Anyway, that's a very emo loaded answer, but, there you go. You had to go off and ask, so I answered.

That's that's what I get. Right.

Not at all. That was amazing. I was in Raptured.

Aw, that's very sweet. Thank you.

Yeah. Hmm. Amazing. Well those are the three closing questions. Espree, do you have any closing words that you'd like to share?

No. Like I said earlier, just remember your intuition is your oracle. It's so important. Everybody's gonna give us their advice and their opinions of the best way to live and what to do with our lives. And there's zillions of people out there. We all have a different opinion of what is the best way, and we're all just basing it off of our past experiences of like love and heartbreak and prosperity and loss.

Don't try to like, thank you, have to be on someone else's in order to win

Yep, that's it.

That's all she said, folks.

That. Yeah, that, yeah. Mm-hmm. I feel like if we add anything more that it takes away from the power of that. So with that, thank you for coming.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks for joining us this week on Elements of Community.

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