Reach your Customers through Emotion with Andrew Olsen

Episode 66 • 21st December 2022 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries

Andrew Olsen:

No leader in their right mind is going to say, Yeah, go shadow these 12 other departments and do these things if you're not showing up and delivering well on your core responsibilities. So it's all about how can you show up hungry, build connection, and seek opportunity to do more to prove that that you are invested in the work and the organization, and to learn it well enough that you can eventually lead it.

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:32

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. And today, my co-host is Seth Heckaman. How you doing, Seth?

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:00:47

Doing well. How are you?

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:49

I'm doing well. Also, I did have an annoying thing happen the other day, though. I traveled a couple of weeks ago and I was in the hotel and in the lobby there. There happened to also be a chess group going on where they were playing chess tournaments. I didn't see Joey Votto. He may have been there, I hear Joey Votto is chess fan. But anyway, so there's all these chess players in this lobby and they're all just they're so annoying. They're all just saying how great they are and what good chess players and how wonderful they are and all that stuff. It was really annoying because I learned through that that there's nothing I dislike more than chess nuts boasting in an open foyer. Okay. I mean, think about that one. So another sort of winter themed story I have to tell you, though, you know, back years ago when I first got out of college, I haven't told people this. I actually lived in in northern Minnesota for a while.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:01:47

Really?

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:47

And this was kind of when I was still just learning about construction and things. And so I'm up there in northern Minnesota and say, you know, I want to live in an igloo. I want to build and live in it and learn that part of construction. So I actually did it, got my ice blocks and dug myself a big ice hole and built myself an igloo to live in. You know, then a lot of my friends wanted to come over and throw me a housewarming party. After that, I was pretty much homeless. Okay, so that's our stories for today. So today's guest I'm very excited about is Andrew Olsen. Andrew is senior vice president of DickersonBakker, based in Raleigh, North Carolina. Andrew is a bestselling author and a podcaster with a career. He's had a significant career, in fact, in leadership development, as well as supporting and empowering nonprofits in their missional and fundraising efforts. Now, audience members, you may be wondering, what does this have to do with the future of building and remodeling? Well, I encourage you to keep listening here and you will learn what great information Andrew has to share that will help you in your business or the business you dream of, even if it's in the construction and remodeling or design industry. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us today on Construction Disruption.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:03:11

Hey man, thanks for having me. I appreciate the invite. And I didn't know that I'd be able to walk away with two great new dad jokes to go tell my daughters after this either.

Todd Miller:

: 00:03:19

Awesome, that's just bonus for participating here today. So thank you. So you joined DickersonBakker a couple months ago. But as I look at that, it seems like the perfect culmination of where you've been in your career, because DickersonBakker focuses primarily on working with nonprofits, a lot of them faith-based, helping them with such things as fundraising, capital campaigns, strategic planning and also talent or leadership development. A lot of your focus, I believe, with DickersonBakker is is on fundraising. And a lot of your career, in fact, has been involved with philanthropy and fundraising. Kind of curious, have to ask you to start with, where does that passion come from? I mean, did you really just enjoy as a kid the challenge of asking your parents for money and you decide you want to do that your whole life? Or what is it that led you down this path?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:04:11

Yeah, it comes from being broke as a kid and and having to learn quite literally. Hey, how do you ask for money? In all seriousness.

Todd Miller:

: 00:04:20

So I was partly right.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:04:21

You were partly right, yeah. When I was 15, my family lost everything. I went bankrupt, lost our home, lived in our car for a little bit, lived on friend's couches, stuff like that. And so, you know, I didn't crystallize that experience and then say the next week, Hey, I want to go be a fundraiser because of that. But over time, as you know, life went on. We recovered from it and, you know, one of my biggest passions is, and one of the things I feel called to is to help end as much suffering in the world as possible. And the way that I found to do that most effectively for myself is I'm just really good at raising money. So that's how I ended up where I am.

Todd Miller:

: 00:05:00

That is an incredible story and I had no idea that was your story. So I'm sorry you went through that experience, but God has a way of using those experiences and developing us and building us and good things come out of them. Yeah.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:05:14

Yeah, and the powerful goal of ending suffering, but also such a beautiful image of what, how good can come out of suffering, too, because you certainly experienced it firsthand for yourself. So thank you for choosing to make that the the outcome and result. That's powerful, great testimony.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:05:31

Thank you.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:05:32

So spending your career now, however many years in this fundraising and philanthropy field, I assume you're no stranger to asking businesses and and business leaders to support various causes. And a lot of our audience members are business owners and leaders. What do you find compels them to want to support various nonprofits and various missions? I'm sure some level of personal connection comes into play. Often times, like if they had once had a bout of cholera, they're going to be, you know, Cure for Cholera Association. They're going to be more prone to give to something along those lines. But what do you find other ways? What motivates them to support something?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:06:09

Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, a lot of it does come down to sort of, you know, what someone's personal mission is. You know, what do they want to accomplish in the world? Right. So for a lot of your listeners, you know, they're in the, you know, construction industry, the building trades. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, those folks still go home and have other aspects of their life that they're living. Right. If they're a person of faith, there's some level of worship and, you know, things like that that are going on in their life, their family, that they may have, you know, any number of different causes or issues they've interacted with. Cancer, heart disease, you know, maybe they've got a child with, you know, a special need or something like that. And so those things often trigger people to think about, you know, those are the sort of organizations I might want to support. We find so often in talking to people who are charitable that, you know, we might want to lead and feel naturally inclined to say, well, let's tell them about all the great stuff we've done and let's talk about all the statistics. And, you know, it's lead with all these numbers. And in 100 out of 100 instances, it's always an emotional story that connects to that person's heart, that drives them to want to give. So if we take personal passion and put that in one category, the other thing that motivates someone to give, no matter where they are, what they do for a living, a vocation or thing like that, it's about connecting your cause and your story with that person's heart, you know, not in a way where everyone's sitting, crying or on a table, although sometimes that does happen. But, you know, just making sure that what you're talking about is meaningful to the other person. And we find so often that that's really what drives someone to, you know, business owner, entrepreneur or whatever. They're not machines, they're not robots. Right. Even guys who are, you know, tough alpha males that are, you know, doing some of the work that I'm sure your clients are doing and the folks in your organization are doing, they're still going to be stopped by a compelling story and say, I want to know more or, yeah, I want to be involved in that.

Todd Miller:

: 00:08:16

That's very interesting. You know, I've been involved with some capital campaigns and things over the years, and a lot of times we just kind of, you know, we're doing mail and emails and different things, but didn't really take that time to build that connecting story. I think that's pretty interesting.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:08:34

I was just going to say that the story is the most powerful, right? All the other stuff supports it, but story is what connects one person to another.

Todd Miller:

: 00:08:42

Absolutely, very interesting. You know, kind of switching gears a tiny bit, though. So if there's somebody out there in the audience who is considering giving to a particular cause or nonprofit, obviously story means a lot to them. But what are things that they should also look for in terms of. I'd even say the integrity of that organization that they're looking at giving to. I mean, where how do they determine is this really an organization or a nonprofit that I want to invest my hard earned dollars?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:09:16

Yeah. So the first thing I'd say is don't spend a minute looking at charity watchdog organizations. Their methodology doesn't actually do much to advance the mission of organizations at all. But I would say you want to look at a couple of things. I always want to look at what's the quality of the leadership in the organization? Do we have a highly capable leader that's empowered to make decisions that advance the organization and advance the cause? Do we have volunteer board members? So every nonprofit that's a 501c3 organization has to have a board of directors or board of advisors. Are those people again highly capable leaders in their own right? They're volunteers, so they're not paid staff. But are they, you know, are they just there to put their name on something and to put it on their LinkedIn profile? Ooh, I'm a board member, so, you know, I'm cool. Or are they actually making a difference in the organization? And can you tell when you engage with them, first of all, are they willing to engage with you? And second, can you tell when they engage with you that they understand the vision and mission of the organization and that they have their hand on the pulse of what's going on? So those are important to me. I also want to look at outcomes. You know, a lot of people talk about how much money goes to program versus administration versus fundraising. That's really unimportant. The question is, are we achieving the mission we set out to achieve? And let's use this example, right? If an organization's raising $100 million and they're really excited because $99 million are going directly to program and $1 million is going to operations and administration. And so they're really efficient, but they're not achieving anything. I'd rather somebody who's spending, you know, getting 50% efficiency, but they're actually out curing cancer or finding the the cure for cholera or whatever. I'd much more prefer an outcome-driven decision than some arbitrary metric on finances, which is what a lot of people unfortunately look at.

Todd Miller:

: 00:11:24

You know, that's really interesting and kind of flips my thinking on its head because I am one of the guys that does sometimes check out the charity watchdog groups and things. And yeah, I guess part of that is because I mean, I love the concept of outcomes. Several years ago I was involved with a local organization that, you know, switched our funding to strictly being outcome-based funding as far as the organizations we funded. But yeah, sometimes it's hard to even know what the outcome is of certain organizations. I guess that makes a difference if it's a local organization, somebody that you can touch and feel and go talk with.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:12:03

Yeah, it does. And you know, I think you have to decide for yourself on these kind of things, right? So there might be some things where you say, I'm just going to support that cause because I believe deeply. Right. So I'm thinking of, let's say, veteran's causes, right? If you are a retired Marine and there's a veteran's service organization that serves retired Marines, you might choose to participate in that and give to that simply because that's part of the brotherhood, right? That's different, in my opinion, than saying, well, I'm going to go support my local rescue mission or Salvation Army division. And I want to know, how are they using my money and are they actually serving the number of people that they're serving and things like that? So yeah, on a national scale, those things are hard to get to. Right. If you live in Des Moines and the organization's headquarters is in Florida, you know, what are you going to do, jump in your wagon and go, you know, march on over there? You're probably not going to do that. Maybe you're going to find information online. Whereas, again, you know, if they're a neighborhood organization and you can go down and actually visit with the CEO, visit with a board member, you're going to get a lot more clarity, a lot more quickly.

Todd Miller:

: 00:13:08

Very interesting, that makes a lot of sense. So one of the books you have written is called 101 Biggest Mistakes that Nonprofits Make and How You Can Avoid Them. Chances are because a lot of our audience members are involved in leadership in their communities and their businesses. Chances are a lot of them are involved with nonprofit boards. Any advice you can give them? Maybe advice that will make them want to read the entire book, but any key advice you can give them in terms of some of these mistakes that nonprofits make?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:13:41

Yeah, I'd love to. So let me give you a little bit of the genesis of that book as a project, because I think it speaks to the content. I sat with 85 different nonprofit executives who all said to me, We have a fundraising problem, come help us fix the fundraising problem. And in almost all of those cases, what they really had was a leadership problem. And the outcome of that leadership problem was that they had trouble raising money. But when you you know, when you peel the layers back, we didn't find in any case that there was a lack of money available to them. We didn't find in any case that they they didn't have a mission that was fundable or, you know, that people just didn't want to support them because they were stingy or something like that. What we found is it was the leader or the leadership team that was not engaging well with their people and the result was that their revenue was low because of that. So whether you're a board member or you're an executive leader, you're a donor or supporter. And that's why I would say understanding the leadership landscape in an organization is really important. And being, for board members particularly, being willing to hold executives accountable to support them in the ways they need to be supported, but also to have hard conversations when things aren't going well. So often we see boards just kind of rubberstamp the decisions and requests of executive leaders without truly understanding the impact of those things. And that's a big challenge for organizations. The other piece is what I call toxic leadership, right? So it's rampant everywhere. But we see it a lot in nonprofits where a CEO, C-suite leader or even sort of a director level person might be a very negative personality, hard to deal with, treats people poorly, and instead of anyone addressing that, they just sort of say, well, you know, Jim's good at his job otherwise, so let's just keep this going. Or my favorite is, well, you know, we're going to move that person to a different department and maybe it'll get better. And I always say to boards, you know, they'd be like, if you went to your doctor and they said, Well, we found cancer in your lymph node, but we're not going to remove it. We're just going to move it to your lung and we're going to see if it gets better. Like you, you'd run away from that doctor immediately, right? But every day organizations make that decision. It's like, oh, we have this toxic person they're, you know, causing people to quit. They're causing people to be demoralized. And instead of dealing directly with that, we're just going to go send them to some other department and hope it gets better. Those are the kind of things that I think lay leaders and volunteer leaders and board members, we don't spend enough time getting to really understand the DNA of the organizations that we serve on the boards of. And because of that, we missed the cues that otherwise would help us go, Oh, crap, I got to get in there and deal with that.

Todd Miller:

: 00:16:28

That's interesting. And as I think about it and the number of boards I've been involved with over the years, you know, a lot of times I'll see board members who don't really understand the organization that they're serving. And, you know, what happens then is all of their information about that organization simply comes to them from that executive director. And, you know, it's filtered by that executive director. And that executive director may be a wonderful person on the surface and fashionably chuegy and everything else. But again, you can have this toxic leadership that they don't see because they're not close enough to the organization. I think that's a fascinating thing. So that's addressed in your book, then?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:17:10

It is, yes. So the book's broken into three sections. There's a leadership section, a strategy section, and then a fundraising section. And what I've found is even folks who aren't in the nonprofit sector have said, you know, I got a lot out of that leadership strategy section that, you know, it's tilted towards nonprofits, but it's applicable elsewhere as well.

Todd Miller:

: 00:17:29

Very interesting, but you also coauthored a book called Rainmaking: The Fundraisers Guide to Landing Big Gifts. And I have to admit, I'm pretty curious about that one. But I'm curious, as you wrote that book, a lot of our listeners are probably sometimes involved where they may not be trying to land a big gift, but they are trying to land a big deal or a big contract or something. Any similarities there between landing a big gift from a nonprofit and landing a big business deal from a for profit organization?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:18:02

Yeah. You know, it's funny because there's an ongoing argument in the nonprofit sector about how similar or not major donor, you know, high-dollar fundraising is to sales. And I've done enterprise sales for 20 years as well as doing fundraising. And I think they're very similar. You know, so you have to understand your audience. You have to understand what success looks like for them in the conversation. Right. I was telling somebody else yesterday, it's not just do I have a successful product or solution for you, but am I creating a win for your organization and for you individually in the process? Right. Because sometimes those things can be a contradiction and cause a problem. You have to understand the cadence of the organization and how they make decisions and whether or not you've got the right people around the table, you know? A friend of mine, she raised $110 million gift from a family that is the sole owner-operator of a very large retail chain. That if I said here, everyone would know what it is. But it took her ten years to secure that gift. And there were something like 27 advisors in the room when they closed that deal. And, you know, when I hear her talk about that, that sounds to me a lot more like an enterprise-level sales presentation than it does a fundraising solicitation. But when you get to that level, so many of the conversations include a financial advisor, an attorney, a family member, some sort of other, you know, legal or financial advocate that's working on behalf of the donor. You know, so understanding what those different layers are and, you know, how you need to craft the message to to be interesting and compelling to all those different stakeholder. Because they may not individually be able to say yes to a solicitation or a sales pitch, but all of them can somehow say no to it and kill the deal. Right. So we've got to understand all those different elements and make sure that the final presentation and pitch that we craft speaks to all of them in some way so that they can leave the room going, oh yeah, they talked to me. They didn't just ignore me while I was in the room.

Todd Miller:

: 00:20:12

Well, you're right. There's a lot of similarities there between enterprise and nonprofit. Very interesting.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:20:18

For sure, and those similarities are what I was thinking of earlier when you were talking about motivations of givers and the role of emotion in that. You know, it sounded like so much of sales training where every buying decision is an emotional buying decision, is what we talk about all the time. And every gift is an emotional gift. So yeah, tying that in and helping people either gain pleasure or avoid pain, you know, that's the gig.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:20:40

Very true.

Todd Miller:

: 00:20:41

Andrew, you also have a podcast called The Rainmaker Fundraising Podcast. Tell us a little bit about that and your guests and topics and things that you cover there.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:20:51

Yeah, it's a show that we launched a couple of years back. You know, we've had somewhere over 100,000 downloads to the show. So I'm told that's good. I have no frame of reference and it's more than just my mom downloading every day. So I think that's a win. But, you know, really, we use this as a platform for a couple of different things. We often have nonprofit CEOs or fundraisers on the show where we interview them very similar to this style, talking about a particular topic in the sector. And then I also often do have folks come on to talk about leadership, right? So sometimes those are people in the nonprofit sector. Sometimes they have nothing to do with the sector. But I find that the more that we can talk about the hard conversations related to leadership, related to emotional intelligence, interpersonal conflict, those sort of things that many organizations kind of shy away from. We get so much positive feedback from our listeners that that is exactly what they were needing to hear or hoping to hear or couldn't get access to in their organization. And now they know how to go try to solve a problem that they've been dealing with, whether it's fundraising or leadership related. You know, we record every week and we try to publish at least a couple times a month, but that's the goal of the show.

Todd Miller:

: 00:22:05

Well, and that's a perfect lead in, because I did want to talk a little bit about your work with leadership and leadership development. One of the things I'm kind of observing right now is it feels like a lot of organizations and also nonprofits are kind of at a place right now where they're looking at passing that torch in terms of leadership. And, you know, that torch is going from oftentimes a boomer to a millennial or something similar and not a lot of natural trust on the part of boomers toward millennials. I think millennials are fantastic, but I'm kind of starting to see this sort of thing where it might be hard for some of our older generation to pass the torch to a younger and very different generation. Any feedback in terms of, you know, how leaders make themselves do that for the good of the organization? They've got to pass the torch. They've got to grow, they've got to build. How do they get their minds around what they may see as sort of a, I don't know, antagonistic change or something?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:23:13

Yeah, it's a particular challenge. I think right now in the marketplace, regardless of whether you're talking about a commercial entity or a nonprofit, it is a lot of it is that, you know, sort of generational challenge. Boomers, Millennials, Gen-Xers, even some some of the older Gen Z crowd that are in the workforce today. There's no formal sort of education and training about how to understand generational nuance and how to talk to one another and build rapport and relationship in the context of appreciating those differences. And then you layer on top of that the radical polarization in our country right now, you know, based on viewpoint. And you kind of put that against the backdrop of this as well. And you have various sort of base camps of distrust. And no one really comfortably understands how to build connection and build the relationships necessary to to to be able to to say, you know, I can confidently trust you and pass this on. So I like to think about a couple of different things. First of all, I've run a couple of different businesses and several business units now. And one of the big things that that we take all of our teams through is a book called Crucial Conversations. Are you guys familiar with that book?

Todd Miller:

: 00:24:36

Yes, I am.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:24:38

Okay, I see heads nodding. Yeah, for those your listeners that might not be. Crucial Conversations is a tool to help you have meaningful, impactful conversations, appreciating and acknowledging emotion in the room, but without destroying the other person, right. And it's interesting because when we do this, we hear people say, yes, it made things better at work, but oh, my gosh, it made so many things better at home too. I'm able to better engage with my spouse or my mother or, you know, whatever it might be. It really helps disarm, you know, the fear and the angst in a tough conversation and gives you a framework to have really healthy dialog. So, so that's one thing. I also think that, you know, particularly for boomers who are founders, right, so much of their identity is tied up in their work. And so passing on the torch, if you will, isn't just about, hey, I'm going to retire and you're going to take over. But it's also like this is stripping me of a part of my identity that's been with me for 30, 40, 50 years, right. And I think it's really easy to push past that and say, just get it, get it over with. We need a transition. We need younger blood in here. But I think that's really dangerous to not honor the legacy of those founders or even those leaders who maybe they've been you know, they didn't found an organization, but they've been leading for 15, 20, 30 years. And they've built something really amazing, and it's in their DNA, right. And so when we talk about transition and and handing over the keys to the next generation, it's not just a job for them. It really is, you know, the core of their identity, more so than maybe it should be, but it's just the reality. Right? So I think it's really important for for leaders to take a step back and to to understand, particularly the boomer leader, if you will, or the leader who's going to try to pass on that to the next generation to really try to understand who they are outside of of their work and then within the context of their work and understand the legacy that they want to leave both institutionally but also familial right. And in their community, and start to think about and shape the decision and the strategy for transition in the context of that broader legacy that they want to leave and understand that leaving the business well is part of setting up their legacy to be successful and to reflect successfully on them in the future, rather than than looking at it as something being taken away from them. That's much easier said than done, right. But I think that kind of framework is really important. And then on the other side of it, I think we often do a really poor job of creating intentional pathways of development. You know, I think about some of the industries you guys are involved in, probably the building trades. And, you know, I think about unions and apprenticeships and things like that. That doesn't happen anywhere else right now in our economy. Right. And I think that we would see a lot healthier transition of business leadership if we had programs like that that weren't just for the person who's brand new off the street, never had a job before, but also, you know, kind of at every level of leadership to have sort of that apprenticeship pipeline so that you can say kind of the old GE model, right. Where it's like, hey, we've identified six candidates who could be great for this and we're going to go develop all of them for the next ten years. And one of them in year 12 is going to end up being the CEO. Right. But they're all going to be healthy, well-developed leaders by the time we make that decision. Nobody's doing that these days. Right. I think things like that are the kind of things that make this transition a lot easier.

Todd Miller:

: 00:28:21

So I went through that sort of transition with an organization a few years ago, and it had a director that had been there for 20 plus years, and someone very wise who was also associated with that organization came alongside us and said, you know, We're going to have to walk the director through this. We're going to have to recognize and honor what they've done. And, you know, I have to tell you, as a board member at the time, I'm thinking, man, this is a lot of time just feeling like I'm trying to protect someone's feelings or something. But in the end, what we did because of this person's direction really did honor the director, helped to pave that person's way then to the next phase of their life. And to some degree, I think it helped them feel like they didn't have to keep coming back trying to influence the organization either, because it was very clear what their legacy was and where it was left. And so it actually made things a lot easier for onboarding a new leader as well. So I love those words that you said and, you know, talking too about how no one knows how to build connection anymore. That really struck me in the heart, because I think you're absolutely right. We don't. All we know is my opinion and your opinion. They're not the same and I don't want to talk to you about it. So very interesting.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:29:40

You know, one of the other things I think is important in this, you kind of alluded to it, but, you know, when you help someone leave well, it's not just about them, right? Because you have everybody else who's sticking around watching that process. And if if you rush it and it looks like that, you know, founder or other leader left poorly, the question that people are going to ask the next day is, huh, is that going to happen to me, too, when it's my time? So I think, you know, being really intentional about helping people leave well, whether it's a retirement or even if it unfortunately has to be a layoff or a termination. Ending that that relationship well and sending the people off in a dignified way, I think, brings you so much more value with with the folks that are sticking around than you might even realize.

Todd Miller:

: 00:30:27

Very good. So we've covered a lot of ground here, but we think that a lot of our audience members are folks who are newer in their careers. And that was really our goal with Construction Disruption was to kind of reach and attract younger folks into the construction industry because it is something our industry has struggled with, bringing new folks in. But I'm just kind of curious, any additional advice you'd have for folks who are newer in their careers? How do they get themselves integrated into an organization, learn the organization, become a leader in that organization? Any advice for them?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:31:04

I mean, I'll give the advice that essentially is what I've used in my career, right. I decided early on that I wanted not just to have a job, but I wanted to have something a lot bigger than that. Right. I wanted to have impact. And so I early on, I said things like, alright, I'm going to be the first one in the door in the morning. Not because I wanted to say, hey, I work this many hours. But what I found was that executives often are in the office at two distinct times, early in the morning and late at night. And so I could get more face time with key leaders if I showed up early in the morning and late at night. Didn't mean I didn't still do my work during the day, but I structured my schedule so that I could get that face time so that, you know, in a in a company of 150, 200 people, the CEO riding the elevator would look at six of them. And I'm in that group and he'd know my name. Right. And it would create opportunity for relationship building. So thinking about that, thinking about how can we be intentional about connecting with people of influence. I also decided I'm just going to take on extra projects. So there's all this talk right now in the marketplace about, you know, only do what they're paying you for and don't do anything more than that. And you'll go home right at five when the bell rings and all that kind of stuff. And if all you ever want is a job, fine, do that. Right. I want more, and I always wanted more. So I've invested more. You know, I would be the first one to raise my hand and say, Hey, can I take on this new project? Or, Oh, you guys are doing something cool over here. Can I learn about that? I don't have to be a part of it, can I just watch? Right. Can I can see how this unfolds? When I first started selling, I found the most successful sales guy in the business and said, Can I just sit with you and make calls? I want to hear what these are like. And so, you know, I think doing things like that, asking for a formal mentor, asking to understand and, you know, be able to shadow people in every department in your organization so that, you know, you don't just know what you do, but you understand how it connects to the next thing and how that connects to the next thing and how that ultimately gets in the market and understanding all those aspects. That's how you build the capacity to lead an organization, right? It's not by being a specialist on this one area because very few organizations hire CEOs that are specialists in one area. Unless you're a lawyer or a CFO. Right. But being able to get kind of a broad perspective on the business is really important. And so the more that that young leaders and aspiring leaders can can ask to be plugged into those kind of things, I think is really valuable. And then, you know, alongside that, though, is the also important piece of like, you have to hit your objectives, right? So no leader in their right mind is going to say, yeah, go shadow these 12 other departments and do these things if you're not showing up and delivering well on your core responsibilities. So, so that's sort of a given for you. But after that, I think it's, you know, it's all about how can you show up hungry, build connection, and seek opportunity to do more to prove that that you are invested in the work and the organization and to learn it well enough that you can eventually lead it.

Todd Miller:

: 00:34:17

I think that is perhaps the best career advice we've ever had given here on the show.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:34:23

Sweet.

Todd Miller:

: 00:34:23

Fantastic words there. No, that's really good stuff. And, you know, it's interesting too, you know, of course there's kind of a growing trend right now saying, you know, college isn't necessary. Go right to the trades. And, you know, I believe that that's even true for white collar jobs. We think of that for blue collar jobs. But, you know, once I hire someone, most of my folks, I could not begin to tell you what their degree is in or if they even have one. I really am looking for those hard workers and those achievers who take the bull by the horns and do the work they're given to them and look for new challenges. So I don't think that this whole thing of college isn't necessary, is just for blue collar these days either.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:35:09

100% agree it. You know, I'll tell you, my my brother in law never went to college, but he he's a self-taught programmer and has one of the most successful careers you'd find, right. But if you looked at it on paper against a college graduate, you'd say, well, one has a degree, this one doesn't. He clearly can't be as successful, but he probably makes twice what the college graduate makes.

Todd Miller:

: 00:35:32

Yeah, very interesting. Well, this has been really neat. We're close to wrapping up the, what I call the business end of things here on the show and it's been a real pleasure. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you'd like to share with our audience before we move on to some fun stuff?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:35:48

No. I think we hit the high points, man.

Todd Miller:

: 00:35:50

We covered a lot of ground. Well, thank you. Well, so now I have to thank you. If you'd like to participate in what we call our rapid-fire questions. So this is going to be seven questions that can range from serious to silly.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:36:04

Okay.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:04

All you have to do is provide us the short answer and our audience needs to understand, Andrew, if he agrees to this has no idea we're about to ask. So you up to the challenge?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:36:14

Yeah. Let's do it.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:15

Awesome. Let's go for the rapid-fire. We will alternate asking questions. Seth, you want to go first?

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:36:20

Sure. So, question number one, a favorite rapid fire question around here. Do you prefer the top or bottom half of a bagel?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:36:31

The top half.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:32

Amen. I'm right there with you.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:36:36

You're in the majority, I think.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:36:38

Because I like everything bagels, and the bottom half of an everything bagel is boring.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:42

It's got nothing. Question number two, if you had to be a dog or a cat, which would you choose to be?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:36:51

Oh, good lord, a dog all day long.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:57

That's pretty much everyone's answer also when we ask that question. There are a few conveniences that have come up from cats such as not having to ever go outside if you don't want to. But that's a good answer.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:37:10

Question number three, what is your bucket list vacation?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:37:14

Fiji. Just sitting on the beach.

Todd Miller:

: 00:37:17

That sounds good.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:37:18

Sounds very nice.

Todd Miller:

: 00:37:19

Yeah. Especially right now in Ohio this time of year. Sounds great. Question number four, if you had to eat a crayon, what color would you choose?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:37:30

Hoo, hoo hoo. Blue, I guess.

Todd Miller:

: 00:37:34

That sounds as good as any answer, I think.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:37:38

I don't know.

Todd Miller:

: 00:37:41

Very good.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:37:42

Question number five, a little more serious now. What would you like to be remembered for?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:37:49

Mm hmm. Making an impact in the world.

Todd Miller:

: 00:37:52

Amen.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:37:53

Beautiful.

Todd Miller:

: 00:37:54

Amen, good answer. Next question. This will make you think back a little bit. So what non-family person have you been friends with the longest in your life? And how many years has it been?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:38:10

Brian Wilkerson. We've been friends since like second grade. When my family was homeless, I lived in his house, on his bedroom floor, and we were still friends today.

Todd Miller:

: 00:38:19

Awesome, good stuff. I think it's good you remember those friends because, yeah, it's interesting. Mine goes back to about sixth grade because my family moved, and once we moved away, I lost most of those relationships. Okay, last question, Seth.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:38:37

If you could learn one new skill, what would it be?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:38:40

Oh. It would probably be carpentry because I live on a farm and we have to build a whole lot of stuff and I'm not good at it.

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:38:50

Sounds like you'll have lots of practice.

Todd Miller:

: 00:38:54

And I know you enjoy farm life. So we'll have to have you back sometime, just talk about the farm.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:38:58

Yeah, love to. I'd love to do that. Thanks again for having me today.

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:02

Well, this has been great, so I need to clue our audience in on something. I did not say this at the beginning of the show, but we have been doing challenge words this episode where we have each had a word that we were challenged to work into the conversation. I am pleased to say these were some tough ones. We actually were successful. Seth, you had the word?

Seth Heckaman:

: 00:39:21

Cholera.

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:23

Yeah. I didn't know if you'd worked that one in. Andrew, you had the word?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:39:27

Wagon.

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:28

Wagon. And you worked it in very well there. And then I had a word that I still am not sure I know what it means, but I had the word cheugy that I was able to work in. But I have no idea if I used it correctly. But I did get to say it at least.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:39:45

I still don't think it's a word.

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:47

I kind of think you're right. That was given to us by Ryan behind the scenes here. So thank you, Ryan, for that word. Well, Andrew, again, this has been a real pleasure. For folks who may want to get in touch with you, how can they most easily do that?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:40:03

Yeah, the easiest way is on LinkedIn, Andrew Olsen, O-L-S-E-N. And actually you mentioned my book, in my LinkedIn profile, there's a download link for a free copy of it. So if any of your listeners want that, they can have it there. People can also get in touch with me, my phone number, my cell is 612-201-1967. Text any time.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:40:25

Todd Miller: Awesome. Thanks so much, and we'll put those in the show notes as well. So I'd like to thank our audience for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with Andrew Olsen of DickersonBakker. Please watch for future episodes of our podcast, we always have great guests. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next episode though, change the world for someone, make them smile, encourage them. Powerful yet simple things that we can do to change the world one interaction at a time. God bless and take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.

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