The episode elucidates the profound connection between our physical well-being and our relationship with nature. We delve into the notion that disconnection from the natural world may significantly contribute to feelings of insecurity within ourselves. The conversation features Frankie Edwards, a specialist in nature-based nervous system regulation, who shares her insights on how immersing oneself in the environment fosters a sense of belonging and enhances mental health. By examining the biological underpinnings of our experiences, we explore how the nervous system reacts to stress and the importance of grounding ourselves in nature to alleviate chronic stressors. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to reconsider their relationship with the earth and recognize the intrinsic bond we share with our surroundings.

A rich and thought-provoking discourse unfolds as we engage in a conversation that examines the intrinsic bond between humanity and nature, highlighting the often-overlooked biological imperative that underlies our connection to the earth. Hosted by Avik, the episode features Frankie Edwards, a distinguished nature-based nervous system specialist whose work intricately weaves together the disciplines of neuroscience, somatics, and the healing embrace of nature. Together, they explore the profound implications of our disconnection from the natural environment, suggesting that this estrangement is a significant contributor to the pervasive sense of unease many individuals experience within their bodies. Frankie shares her deeply personal journey, recounting a pivotal moment of loss that led her to reevaluate her relationship with both science and spirituality. Her narrative emphasizes the necessity of acknowledging nature not merely as a backdrop but as an integral component of our well-being and healing processes. The conversation probes the misconceptions surrounding the simplistic notion of “just going outside” as a remedy for stress and anxiety, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of the biological and psychological benefits that arise from nature immersion. As the dialogue progresses, the theme of belonging emerges as a central tenet of the discussion. Frankie articulates the physiological ramifications of feeling disconnected from community and environment, reframing belonging as a biological necessity rather than an emotional luxury. This perspective invites listeners to reflect on how contemporary lifestyles, often marked by disconnection and urban chaos, can adversely affect mental and physical health. Ultimately, the episode culminates in a resonant call to action: to honor our connection to the land and to embrace the healing potential that lies in re-establishing our relationship with nature, thereby fostering both personal and collective well-being.

Takeaways:

• Our disconnection from nature may significantly contribute to feelings of unsafety within ourselves.
• The experience of grief can profoundly shift one's perspective on the interconnectedness of life and nature.
• Belonging transcends mere emotional needs and is a fundamental biological requirement for human beings.
• Nature immersion has been scientifically proven to reduce stress levels and promote overall well-being.
• The concept of decolonizing wellness involves prioritizing community over individualism in healing practices.
• Engaging with nature, even in small ways, can effectively ground and center individuals amidst life's chaos.

Links referenced in this episode:

• AbundanceWorld
• HeFrankChapter
• AbundanceWorld

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Aberdeen's World

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

🎙️ Want to Be a Guest on Healthy Mind, Healthy Life?

Send me a direct message on PodMatch.

👉 DM Me Here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/avik

🌱 About Healthy Mind By Avik™️

Healthy Mind By Avik™️ Global Mental Wellness Podcast Network - focused, credible, no more identity clutter.

👉 Subscribe and be part of this healing journey.

Refer a Guest

Know someone who would be a great fit for one of our podcast shows? Email us at services@podhealth.club with the subject line “Refer a Guest.” Requests without this subject line cannot be catered to.

Support Our Podcast: Support this Podcast

📬 Contact & Links

Brand: Healthy Mind By Avik™️

Contact Us

Based in: India & USA

🎧 All Podcast Shows

🤝 Be a Guest

📩 Newsletter Substack

👉 Join the LinkedIn Community

📌 Disclaimer - This episode is produced for educational and informational purposes only. All views expressed by the guest are their personal opinions alone and do not represent the views of the host or Healthy Mind by Avik™. The Network does not verify, endorse, or assume responsibility for any guest statements. Nothing in this episode constitutes medical, legal, financial, or professional advice, please consult a qualified professional before making any decisions. Listeners are encouraged to engage critically and independently with all content do not consume blindly. Use this content as a starting point for your own reflection and research, not as a substitute for professional guidance. Third-party content is referenced under fair use for informational purposes only. Guest speakers are solely responsible for their own statements.

If you have concerns about any content, please contact us here

By listening, you acknowledge and accept this disclaimer in full. Read detailed disclaimer here.

Dear listeners, there is something that happens when you stand barefoot on grass or sit under a tree or just stop moving for long enough to hear the wind.

Something in your body exhales, not your lungs.

Something deeper, like a part of you that's been holding on for a very, very long time finally remembers.

It's allowed to let go.

So the question is, what if that is not a poetic what if that's actually belong biology?

And what if our disconnection from the nature is one of the least talked about reasons so many of us feel unsafe in our own skin?

So that's where today's conversation.

Dear listeners, welcome back to another powerful episode of Mind meets Machine where we explore the, the intersection of human experience, science and the things that make us more fully ourselves.

And I am your host, Avik, and I'm genuinely glad that all of you are here today.

And my guest today is a nature based nervous system specialist and the founder of Aberdeen's World Canada's first career centered wellness sanctuary, whose work weaves together neuroscience, somatics and forest breathing to help leaders and professionals regulate the stress, restore belonging and make decisions they can truly thrive with.

So please welcome my lovely guest, Frankie Edwards.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much.

Glad to be here.

Amazing, amazing.

So, Frankie, like, before we get into the science and sanctuary, everything that you have built, I want to start with a moment like, was there a specific experience in nature that you can point to, like something you felt in your body that told you that this was the direction your life needed to go?

Hmm.

Thank you for that.

One of his last breaths.

I actually climbed into the palliative care like bed that he was in with him and gave him one final hug.

And as he passed away, my soul actually kind of took him, took his soul to the place that I guess he considered heaven.

And lo and behold, it was actually, it looked like a place that we already lived in.

It was a forest, it was a river, it was a beautiful, beautiful wind and trees and the smell of pine and everything that I already knew about nature.

And then it kind of hit me that, you know, I came back to reality.

And after about six months, that experience was really profound and really weighing on me.

And I, it did hit me.

I said, wow, heaven is actually a Place on earth.

What if heaven is a place on earth?

And so that, you know, kind of cracked me open and the grief really cracked me open.

That whole experience through nature, you know, the.

The one thing that kept me really close to him as I was going through all the grief after he passed was going out by the river and seeing the way that the.

The sun shimmered off the water and just feeling the breeze on my skin and smelling the pine trees and knowing that, you know, the ones that we have lost are not that far away.

And so, yeah, from coming from a science kid who studied neuroscience, studied kinesiology, you know, really believed in one kind of reductionistic model of healthcare, that really cracked me open.

And so this is kind of the work that I do now.

It's.

How do we blend all of the.

All of the social determinants of health that we call them, and then also the science and the spirit, you know, the sacred and the holy and everything else that makes us real here.

So that really started my abundance world journey.

You know, after 13 years after that experience, the business was actually born.

Amazing.

Amazing.

So the phrase go outside, you will feel better is something most of us have heard our whole lives.

And I mean, most of us have probably dismissed it at some point as too simple, too soft, to too much like advice from a grandparent rather than a solution to something real.

Right.

So, I mean, what's the misconception underneath that dysmos, like the thing that keeps people from understanding what nature actually does to the nervous system at a biological level?

That's a great question.

So I remember being in medical school and learning a lot of different types of medicines around the world.

And with that understanding, knowing that, you know, most of.

For most of humanity's existence here on Earth, we survived off of what we now call traditional Chinese, you know, traditional Chinese medicine or Ayurvedic medicine or indigenous medicines.

So all of these traditional medicines that exist that we actually, especially folks in the.

In the scientific and academic community, kind of dismiss now as, yeah, exactly like grandmother's medicine, you know, or wisdom that can't be.

Can't be replicated in scientific literature and that kind of thing, I think there is a big.

A big misconception around that, because long before we had modern medicine, which has really only been about, what, 300, 400 years, humans were surviving, we were thriving.

You know, we were also killing each other.

Just like we are today.

Exactly.

But.

But people tend to actually survive and thrive.

The question of, you know, how do we link it with our biology I think today is like scientific methods and, and the language that we use around that is really just a sign of the times and a way, a different language that we understand how we're actually living and functioning in the world.

And yes, a lot of my clients do need that interpretation.

You know, they need to know how their nervous system is responding and reacting and that for some reason in their mind gives them more permission to actually relax or that it is real for some reason.

I believe that there's a big disconnect between our somatic and embodied nature and how we interpret our nature.

Right.

One of them is looking at the lens through the mind, through our brain, through like the language that we use, the culture that we have, and another one is actually learning about more.

So, you know, focusing on the actual embodied, experiential nature of it.

And we lack that today.

We really do lack that.

And most of us, you know, more than half the world's population live in cities.

So when do we get a chance to go outside?

When do we get a chance to actually just touch a tree?

And the message that pops into our head, trust that message.

You know, it doesn't have to be written in a textbook to be accurate.

We are disconnected from our own intuition and from our own truth.

So that's really what nature brings back to us, is that sense of trusting in ourselves, that the messages that we receive in our bodies, you know, when the hair stands up on the back of our neck or you get a really good feeling about something and you have no idea why, we just chalk it up to waking up on the right side of the bed that day.

But we do have this sense of intuition, this sixth sense almost.

And in order to get to that and work with that sixth sense, we actually have to be embodied in our five senses first.

And a lot of us are not.

We're still in our heads.

So you, you talk about belonging as a biological need and not just as an emotional one, but something the body actually requires.

So I find that fascinating because belonging is usually framed as a social or psychological concept.

So what's underneath it as the nervous system level?

I mean, at the nervous system level, like what is actually happening in the body when someone doesn't feel they belong to a place, to community, to themselves, anything.

Yeah, great question there.

I mean, right now, and the science has kind of caught up with, with what I'm going to talk about, which is like the gut, mind, brain, body, axis.

Before we kind of studied things in silos so that, you know, your mental health was not at all related to your digestive health.

And that's just one example.

But there are so many nowadays that you can actually see.

You can look at someone's tongue, you can look at someone's skin and understand what systems are in or out of dysfunction.

Right.

And then using the actual language of science, so you have like two different sides of your nervous system, the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system.

The sympathetic is when you're activated so that you can think of as like, you know, when the lion is coming to get you and you start to run.

So that's more of a like fight, flight or flee approach.

And that is when you're actually activated.

So obviously your nervous system jacks up, your heart rate goes up, you start to sweat a little bit.

You might not have full frontal of your brain, that, that frontal lobe in your brain.

You might not have full executive function of that because your body takes over.

So that's one side of the coin.

That's the sympathetic side.

We are often in that state even if there's no lion running after us right now.

You know, these days there's a lot of other pressures.

There's timelines, there's, there's stressors that actually also don't go away, which is almost worse.

You know, it leads to chronic stress.

And when your body's in a state of elongated sympathetic nervous system activation.

Exactly.

The parasympathetic, which para.

You can think of kind of like as like a lower lowering.

So think of that as when you're actually like in a state.

People think of it as like rest and digest.

So you're in a more calm state, you're more relaxed, you're able to actually function.

What you eat, you might not throw up, right?

You'll actually digest it.

So when you're in that parasympathetic state, which is again termed an activation, but it's, you know, it's activating the body's ability to function as it should under safe circumstances.

So there's no lion, there's no nothing.

You're just at your house relaxing, able to eat your dinner, able to digest, no problem.

And we are not often in that state.

And so there's a lot of things I'm sure we'll get into this modalities that can help you get there.

However, from a scientific perspective, like even little things like hugging someone in your household, maybe a family member, that actually increases your oxytocin pretty much immediately.

So oxytocin is a neurotransmitter in your brain body.

And it tells the body to relax.

It tells the body to soften.

It actually makes the muscles relax in your legs, in your arms, whatever.

So we get that sense of relaxation, you know, when.

When breath work, people talk about, you know, bringing your shoulders up to the ears and then relaxing down again.

That sense of.

Of contraction and then release actually tends to release everything in your body.

So from a biological perspective, that, you know, just oxytocin is one example, but there are so many that you can actually utilize and just be able to, like, live and function a normal life without getting, like, super overwhelmed, super stressed out.

Chronic stress that will lead to illnesses.

So that's definitely not where we want to go.

And unfortunately, that's kind of where we are in today's world.

And if I also ask, like, like, how does that compound in the nervous system?

Like, I have to say that for the two SLGQ+ community and the career professionals you center in your work, the experience is not, I would say, belonging of having to perform safety in spaces that were not built with you.

You in mind.

So how does that compound in the nervous system over time?

What do you say?

Yeah, it's.

It's especially prevalent in the 2s LGBTQ community, queer communities, I mean, any underprivileged community, marginalized community, that there's a sense of, you don't belong here.

Right?

You're not normal.

And there's almost a pressure to even just exist as someone else for your entire life.

Imagine that pressure over time, continuous pressure for years and years and years, not living as yourself, living with a mask on.

And that is kind of, in my opinion, where the deepest suffering comes from, in disconnection.

So we.

We are taught that we're.

We're already disconnected, that we're.

That we don't belong.

And when you remember that you do belong, and just because you exist, you earned it because you are there, you don't have to actually do anything or wear a mask or wear different clothes or perform any different type of way.

That makes a profound shift in your nervous system.

You shift from, like I said, that parasympathetic side of things.

Sorry, the sympathetic side of things, into the parasympathetic side of things.

And for me, I think the.

The foundation of safety and then going up from there to explore who you actually are and be your authentic self.

The foundation of that really starts with getting your nervous system on track, feeling the safety, being able to sit in the parasympathetic and allow your digestion to Happen even from like a linguistic perspective, when I talk about digestion, I'm talking about the gastrointestinal system.

Right.

But digesting things could be other ways.

In English, we say, like, how are you?

You know, did you swallow that?

As in, like, did you bite your tongue?

Did you not say your.

Speak your truth?

Did you not do the thing that makes you feel like you?

And so there's a lot of other ways we can interpret it, but yeah, the.

The actual sense of being in the body, having your feet on the ground, you know, feeling the sense of the weight of your body or how your.

Your sits bones feel as they sit on the chair that you're in, all of these things really contribute to being able to really root down.

And then from there, once you're rooted, we can expand and branch out.

Exactly true.

And also, like, your title for this conversation is you belong to the land.

And I want to sit with that phrase for a moment because it does something interesting is like, it doesn't say the land belongs to you, it says you belong to it.

That's a different orientation entirely.

So what does it mean to reconnect with that sense of belonging not just as a wellness practice, but as a foundation of.

I mean, for the authenticity?

Definitely.

The idea of saying you belong to the land and not the reverse, I think kind of actually comes from how my years of experience in the healthcare industry have kind of looked a bit different than others in a sense that I'm always thinking about, how can we decolonize wellness?

And that means centering community over individualism.

So right from there, you, instead of saying, I belong, you know, or the earth belongs to me, it's more that we belong to.

To her as a whole community, as a whole entity.

And decolonizing wellness looks for me like really getting in touch with the land in a more than scientific nature, because this land has been here for a lot longer than we have, and there's been stewards of land that are.

Have been here for generations.

Even before my ancestors got here.

I'm in Toronto.

So North America, you know, in the indigenous first nations here, they called North America Turtle Island.

And Turtle island existed long before, you know, it was called North America.

And so how can we acknowledge our lineage and how can we acknowledge honoring the land that we stand on in a way that kind of gives us more of a relationship with land versus extraction from the land and that really, like, in terms of safety, in terms of harm, it goes beyond just personal safety and personal harm.

It goes beyond how do we create Healing spaces that don't replicate systems of harm.

You know, the, the colonial nature or the capitalistic nature that we are all in.

And this can be seen even from our own healthcare system.

Now, you know, there's, there's lots of things here in Canada that you have to pay for.

And so, you know, we've used to have mostly a universally paid for system of health care and now we have some privatization kind of seeping into that.

So yeah, I always ask myself, kind of like, how do we not replicate systems of harm on the, on the greater scale?

And that means designing programs that are not just inclusive to the queer community, but centered for the queer community.

So how can we invite people in and have them centered and have their experience centered rather than just say, oh yeah, this exists.

Oh, and we'll like maybe open a pocket so that you feel included.

No, that's not how accessibility and resourcing works.

Right.

So that's kind of where it all stems from.

If you, if you just look at across the board, everyone has their own faiths, everyone has their own religion, everyone has their own background and story to tell, and that's what makes life beautiful.

And so when we look at decolonizing wellness, how do we make it so that everyone's experience is actually centered in that and you really have to do some thinking and planning and preparation and apologizing and reconciling and all of that reckoning with your own history and lineage and how you have bias in your own opinions and ways of doing things.

So, yeah, all across that.

What is the common denominator between us all that holds humanity together?

We all stand on Earth, we are all part of nature.

We're all part of this big, beautiful blue planet.

And even in Toronto, it's one of the most multicultural cities in the world.

And I can go ahead and ask anyone here, it doesn't matter what they look like, who they worship, anything.

I can ask them, what's your favorite tree?

And they'll have something to say.

It could be a tree from where they're from, or it could be something that they found once they moved here.

But there's this piece of nature brings us back together and it almost immediately shifts people out of fight or flight and defense mode into more.

But this is like a little bit more welcoming.

Now I can tell you a little bit about my story and about where I'm from.

Huh, that's quite interesting.

Yeah.

Did that answer your question?

I mean, so from here we're just thinking like I was thinking about a situation like suppose someone gets a taste of that.

Like they do a forest bathing session, they feel something shift, they feel more grounded than they have in months.

And then Monday comes and the inbox is full, the meetings are back, the city is loud, too much of noise.

How do you help someone hold on to what they found in nature when they're back inside the machine?

And what's.

What makes the regulation actually sick?

I mean, why I'm this, why this is, I'm asking is like same thing happened with me also.

I mean, just a week prior, only I went for.

Not a vacation, but it's a kind of staying away from everything.

It's a, it's a separate place.

Very calm, very a good morning, great breakfast, then enjoyed my whole day.

But then again, after someday when I back, I feel like, where am I?

Yeah, I totally know the feeling.

I know that feeling big time.

As someone who spends a lot of time, yeah, I'm in the city and then I'm also out in nature.

I think it's more about consistency rather than anything.

And there are a lot of little things that you could do in terms of even bringing the nature, bringing the outside in.

There are some measurable differences that happen when you actually engage in nature immersion.

Right.

So forest bathing, going out of nature, staring at a mountain, even that sense of awe.

But in your body, you know, you have a drastic decrease in stress levels like we see in forest bathing, just the first 20 minutes.

Huge decreases in a person's cortisol levels.

And so, yeah, you're talking about going back to the office on Monday morning and you know, cortisol shot up again.

How do we get that back down?

Or where do we find the happy medium?

It's something I do focus on in my retreats because same thing with vacation, same thing with retreats.

You know, you totally kind of detoxify for 5, 6, 7 days and then you have to go back as you said in the machine.

And it's kind of interesting because these days there are, I think there's parts of me that wishes the machine were different.

And I, I see that this machine that we've created is also collapsing in its own way, you know, and like kind of evolving and changing in its own way.

The things that we see, I think are more projections of what we understand.

Right.

So if you consider that you have, your workplace is a place of chaos.

It's going to increase your blood pressure as soon as you step into the office.

That will happen.

Of course it's going to happen because you sense that Right.

There's research on even staring at a green patch of green paint in an office, on an office wall decreases your, your perception of stress.

And so I wonder if there's ways that we can actually bring the outside in.

Right.

So there's like little, you know, maybe planting trees or sinking your hands into your garden.

And it could be just a box on your patio if you live on a condo.

You know, like little things that really make a big difference, like sinking your hands and your feet and into the soil, even just appreciating and preparing your own vegetables for dinner that night.

Like, I had this experiment a couple years back where instead of using a knife to chop my vegetables, I actually broke them with my hands.

And it felt way more primal in that way.

I just felt like, you know, if I didn't have this tool, this is how I would do it.

And maybe I wouldn't even use utensils.

I would just kind of like get in there and like eat with my face and chew and, you know, rip bites off with my teeth and all that.

And there's a sense of being a little bit more wild.

And for some people that's really nerve wracking.

It could be even like chaotic in its own way.

And I know a lot of people that don't like camping for that reason or going out into nature because they hate the flies and the bugs and everything, it causes them more stress.

So do what, you know, do what feels right for you.

But I can guarantee you that, that your cortisol levels, your stress levels, your blood pressure will all decrease and your sense of presence, your sense of calm and what we call heart rate variability, which is your ability to actually function better, that will increase as well.

So lots of things.

But yeah, you kind of have to take it slow.

I mean, for me, even in the city, I'm not going to go and into like a small park and do forest bathing and like walk with my socks off.

Because who knows, there could be like anything on the grass.

Exactly.

So you kind of have to suit it to what you need.

And that's part of the work that I do is, you know, assessing people's environment and understanding what and what they can't do and what's safe for them on a physical level.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

And so today, if you have to give one advice to the listener, what that will be.

Just one.

I mean, as many as you can for sure.

So anybody who's listening out there, there is a sense of peace that you can connect pretty instantly with nature and that is through your own mind.

Even if you don't have, you know, ground to stand on or soil to sink your hands into, you can take one small breath here with me.

We can do it now.

Feet on the ground, just breathing in through the nose and letting it out through the open mouth.

It doesn't require forest, but it does require presence.

And so what I'll say to you is the land is always willing to meet you where you are.

Doesn't.

It's not even when I say land, I mean earth.

There are a lot of different elements, right?

So earth, wind, water, fire.

You could think of a lot of different things that will bring you back down to earth, down to nature without having to be in the forest.

You could start a little fire and you're, you know, you could light a candle even.

You could take a small breath and pretend, and not even pretend, but know that the wind that you're, that you're breathing in was once the wind on top of that big mountain that you see from your window.

You know, it's, it's all about how you relate and the intention of being in relation to the earth.

That's the common, the common theme between us all.

Amazing.

Amazing.

And I believe most of the listeners definitely would love to connect with you.

So what will be the best medium to connect?

Yes, my AbundanceWorld Today website.

Just AbundanceWorld Today.

I'm also on Instagram, it's under my own name, it's HeFrankChapter.

And then if you're a TikTok person, I also have AbundanceWorld.

But the best way to reach me and all of those things, all of my socials, everything there are actually on the website.

So just head over to AbundanceWorld today and would love to connect.

Amazing.

Dear listeners, what I'll do is I'll put all the links and the details into the show notes for easy reference before we move.

I have to say that what I am taking as a takeaway from this conversation is like your nervous system was not designed for the peace of, or I don't say peace, it will be the race, the peace of the modern life.

But it was designed for the earth and every time you return to it, even briefly, you are not escaping reality.

You are remembering like who you actually are.

So that is something I'm taking away from this conversation.

Do let us know like what you are taking from this conversation today.

And I have to say, Frankie, I mean you have brought something really generous for our listeners today.

10 Day Challenge connected to this very theme.

I mean it's definitely great and definitely I believe people would love to connect over there and connect with you for more information on the same.

So dear listeners, with this hope, this is the wrap of today's episode on Mind Beats Machine app.

And if something Frankie said is still with you, a word, a feeling, a quiet recognition, follow that thread and it's pointing somewhere is worth going.

And the 10 day challenge and all of Frankie's details are will be there in the show notes.

And if this conversation belong in someone else's day, then please pass it along and it it will definitely make it justice with this hope.

This is your host, Avik and this is Mindmiths machine.

Go outside if you can, and if you cannot, then every 32nd at an open window counts.

Take care of yourself and see you next time.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.