Do you ever look at the wedding pros who are at the top of their game and wonder how they got there? Wedding photographer Stuart Wood is well known for his fine art, high end fashion style wedding photography. Working at venues such as the Four Seasons and The Savoy and travelling the world shooting weddings - his career is thriving. In today's episode I ask the questions about HOW he got to this point, to debunk the 'overnight success' theory and to show you what's possible.

Find out more about Stuart

Follow Stuart on Instagram

Want to meet other likeminded wedding pro's so that you can share ideas, network and help each other out? Then why not go ahead and join my free Wedding Pro community over on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/weddingprosreadytogrow/

Find out more about how I can help you grow your wedding business over on my website or Instagram page:

www.beccapountney.com

www.instagram.com/beccapountney

Time Stamps:

Transitioning from Supermarket Manager to Photographer (00:02:07) Stuart discusses his journey from being a potential supermarket manager to pursuing his passion for photography.

Support and Taking the Leap (00:04:26) Stuart talks about the support he had from his family and the importance of embracing opportunities and taking risks.

Photographing Celebrities (00:07:26) Stuart shares his experience of reaching out to 250 celebrities and successfully photographing 25 of them, which changed his life and gave him valuable experience.

The transition to photography (00:09:42) Stuart discusses how he started in photography, his initial lack of creativity in weddings, and his journey to getting opportunities in the industry.

The big break with the BBC (00:10:41) Stuart shares his experience working on the set of Pride and Prejudice and how he got the main shot for the poster, leading to a significant breakthrough in his career.

Getting the Radio Times cover (00:11:38) Stuart talks about his goal of getting the Radio Times cover and finally achieving it in 2007 with a portrait of James Nesbitt in Jekyll's, highlighting the importance of persistence and hard work.

The transition to high-end weddings (00:19:57) Stuart discusses his decision to transition from regular wedding fairs to high-end venues like the Atelier, the Savoy, and the Four Seasons.

Opportunity at the Four Seasons (00:20:48) Stuart shares how he got the opportunity to photograph his team captain's wedding at the Four Seasons and how it led to becoming one of their recommended photographers.

Importance of relationships and representation (00:24:06) Stuart emphasizes the importance of building relationships, representing clients properly, and being professional in order to gain trust and recommendations from venues and clients.

The importance of branding and delivering quality (00:29:57) Stuart discusses the importance of having strong branding and delivering high-quality work to stand out in the luxury photography industry.

Challenging yourself and pushing boundaries (00:32:50) Stuart emphasizes the importance of getting out of your comfort zone, taking risks, and pushing yourself to deliver the best results for high-end clients.

Finding high-end clients through recommendations (00:36:46) Stuart explains that most of his high-end clients come through recommendations from wedding planners, venues, or previous clients, rather than through online searches.

The timestamp's title (time it starts) Stuart's Motivation (00:39:02) Stuart talks about how he realized that time was passing quickly and he is more motivated than ever to pursue his photography career.

Celebrating Success (00:39:56) Becca encourages Stuart to keep going and suggests celebrating his success by hosting a party at the Savoy or the Four Seasons.

Finding Stuart Wood (00:40:55) Becca discusses how to find Stuart Wood online by adding the word "photography" to the search and shares that she will include all of Stuart's links in the show notes.

Mentioned in this episode:

Wedding Pro agency

Need some help in your wedding business? Our new service allows my team to manage your social accounts, create you a new website or complete one off admin tasks for you. Get in touch to find out more at: www.weddingproagency.co.uk

Stuart: 00:00:00

And I read somewhere, and this is brilliant, I read somewhere, opportunities

Stuart: 00:00:04

are never foghorns, they're always whispers, and you have to learn to tune

Stuart: 00:00:08

into those, or they'll go straight above your head, and they're gone, you know?

Becca: 00:00:14

I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert,

Becca: 00:00:17

speaker and blogger, and you're listening to the Wedding Pros

Becca: 00:00:20

Who Are Ready to Grow podcast.

Becca: 00:00:22

I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life

Becca: 00:00:25

examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.

Becca: 00:00:29

If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion

Becca: 00:00:33

and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you

Becca: 00:00:36

love, then you're in the right place.

Becca: 00:00:38

Let's get going with today's episode.

Becca: 00:00:41

Today I'm chatting with multi award winning photographer Stuart Wood.

Becca: 00:00:45

Stuart is one of the most highly sought after photographers in

Becca: 00:00:48

the UK, shooting weddings both nationally and internationally

Becca: 00:00:51

in his signature editorial style.

Becca: 00:00:54

With a photography career spanning over two and a half decades, Stuart

Becca: 00:00:57

has built a career shooting for TV and magazines, capturing weddings

Becca: 00:01:00

and educating other photographers.

Becca: 00:01:02

I met Stuart at an event a couple of weeks ago, and I just knew you were

Becca: 00:01:06

going to love hearing his story.

Becca: 00:01:08

So today we're going to deep dive into that.

Becca: 00:01:10

Stuart, welcome to the podcast.

Becca: 00:01:12

Hello, Becca.

Becca: 00:01:13

How are you?

Becca: 00:01:14

I am very well.

Becca: 00:01:15

I've got a lot of work going on in my house today, so I'm hoping

Becca: 00:01:18

that the drilling isn't coming through on the microphone, but

Becca: 00:01:21

it is a bit of a wild house here.

Becca: 00:01:23

How's everything at your end?

Stuart: 00:01:25

Well, pretty quiet actually.

Stuart: 00:01:26

We've just come back from a nice little holiday to Berlin, me and my

Stuart: 00:01:29

wife and a couple of friends, so...

Stuart: 00:01:31

And we're just getting over that really, all the walking, et cetera.

Stuart: 00:01:34

So, , so it's quite a quiet house at the moment.

Becca: 00:01:37

Fabulous.

Becca: 00:01:37

Well, it's more of a quiet time of year, isn't it?

Becca: 00:01:39

I like this time of year when we start having the cozy evenings and

Becca: 00:01:43

it starts getting a little bit dark.

Becca: 00:01:45

Now, Stuart, I want to get straight in to your career because

Becca: 00:01:49

I often think we learn a lot.

Becca: 00:01:51

from people by understanding their journey.

Becca: 00:01:54

So the first thing I want to chat with you about is how you

Becca: 00:01:57

got started in the first place.

Becca: 00:01:59

So where did your passion from photography come from first of all, and how did

Becca: 00:02:04

you start making that into a career?

Becca: 00:02:06

Take us back.

Stuart: 00:02:06

Okay.

Stuart: 00:02:07

Many, many, many years ago as, as a young boy, I was always fascinated with these

Stuart: 00:02:12

black objects that clicked and we all had to hold still, you know, and that

Stuart: 00:02:16

fascination will I'm sure live with me till, , till the very end, you know?

Stuart: 00:02:20

So I've always had a massive fascination that developed into a passion.

Stuart: 00:02:26

I started out, I didn't, I wasn't a photographer to start with.

Stuart: 00:02:29

I had a rather strange journey to get there.

Stuart: 00:02:31

I was a watchmaker and jewel apprentice to start with.

Stuart: 00:02:34

That didn't work out.

Stuart: 00:02:35

Went into supermarkets, Sainsbury's, about to become a manager at Sainsbury's.

Stuart: 00:02:40

Oh, well, on the trainee management scheme anyway, knowing that would be the

Stuart: 00:02:43

end of my wonderful hobby and passion because of the time I would have to spend.

Stuart: 00:02:47

becoming a manager at Sainsbury's.

Stuart: 00:02:49

So I thought about it, talked to my then girlfriend, who's now my good lady

Stuart: 00:02:52

wife, sitting in the next room, Liz.

Stuart: 00:02:54

Talked to my mum and dad then saying, look, you know, as far as we

Stuart: 00:02:57

know, we get one shot at this life.

Stuart: 00:02:59

I like working at Sainsbury's, but I've always dreamed about being a photographer.

Stuart: 00:03:02

I'm going to give it up.

Stuart: 00:03:03

And so I gave it up, went to Salisbury College, that was one

Stuart: 00:03:07

of the top three colleges then.

Stuart: 00:03:08

My manager at Sainsbury's said, you're mad that you're going to make a good manager.

Stuart: 00:03:11

I said, it might be the worst decision I've ever made.

Stuart: 00:03:13

But I've got to get this out of my system, and thirty odd years

Stuart: 00:03:16

on, I'm still going, you know.

Stuart: 00:03:18

So, I managed to get on a really, really good course.

Stuart: 00:03:20

Thought I was going to be more of an advertising pack shot type photographer.

Stuart: 00:03:25

Wasn't working at all.

Stuart: 00:03:26

My lecturers, who were really great, took me to one side at

Stuart: 00:03:28

Salisbury and said, No wonder you're being frustrated at the moment.

Stuart: 00:03:32

You are, this is not you, you are a people person, you know.

Stuart: 00:03:36

So, armed with that, excuse me, armed with that, Once I've got a fire in my

Stuart: 00:03:40

belly, one, one good thing about me, and, and I have my faults, but one

Stuart: 00:03:44

good thing about me is if I've got a, if I've got a vision and a fire

Stuart: 00:03:48

in my belly, I'll give it everything.

Stuart: 00:03:50

So armed with that and knowing that people sort of, I suppose feel a little sorry

Stuart: 00:03:54

for students now and again, although they've always got enough for a pint,

Stuart: 00:03:57

as we know, I spent the last year and a half writing to 250 celebrities, and I

Stuart: 00:04:03

got 25 of them, and that changed my life.

Stuart: 00:04:06

I won.

Stuart: 00:04:07

The photographer, student photographer of the year award

Stuart: 00:04:10

at the Photographer Gallery.

Stuart: 00:04:11

And even as a student, because of what I was doing, I was being commissioned.

Stuart: 00:04:14

by Country Living, which is a national magazine, you know, so that changed

Stuart: 00:04:17

my life, you know, and that was great.

Becca: 00:04:19

Wow.

Becca: 00:04:20

So you went from supermarket potential manager to photographer.

Becca: 00:04:24

I just want to pause there for a moment because we make that sound

Becca: 00:04:27

like a really easy transition.

Becca: 00:04:29

And I know there's going to be people listening who are thinking I'm stuck in

Becca: 00:04:32

this dead end job that I absolutely hate.

Becca: 00:04:35

And.

Becca: 00:04:36

I feel like I'm not having the time to do my passion, but the thought of

Becca: 00:04:40

just making that leap is hugely scary.

Becca: 00:04:43

What support did you have in place to make sure, you know, you could

Becca: 00:04:47

actually make this change from permanent job to let's go back to college?

Stuart: 00:04:51

Yeah, well...

Stuart: 00:04:53

Good, good question.

Stuart: 00:04:54

The support I had was all my family.

Stuart: 00:04:56

And, and some of, some of whom, the sort of, on the periphery of the family.

Stuart: 00:05:01

Oh, you'll never do it.

Stuart: 00:05:02

There's too many photographers.

Stuart: 00:05:03

Cause you always get the, the, the naysayers and the

Stuart: 00:05:06

doom merchants, don't you?

Stuart: 00:05:07

For instance, again, going back to that, that, that project, the 250 celebrities,

Stuart: 00:05:11

that they, some laughed at me, and said, who's going to say yes to you?

Stuart: 00:05:14

Well, probably nobody, but it's the price of a stamp.

Stuart: 00:05:16

So that's always my, my attitude really is like.

Stuart: 00:05:19

As far as we know, we get one shot at this life, no matter what you believe.

Stuart: 00:05:22

And I don't want to offend anybody's religion or beliefs or whatever.

Stuart: 00:05:24

But as far as we know, we, we get one crack at this life.

Stuart: 00:05:28

Why do you have to do something that you don't want to do?

Stuart: 00:05:31

Why do you not just do what you want to do as long as you're not harming anyone

Stuart: 00:05:35

else, of course, you know, and that's kind of my philosophy and that's, and that's.

Stuart: 00:05:40

Good luck to anyone who does the same, you know?

Stuart: 00:05:42

So, so, also, I had the, I had the then added benefits of not being married,

Stuart: 00:05:47

no mortgage, and, and no children.

Stuart: 00:05:50

You see, so I'm thinking, let, let's give it a go, and let's see what happens.

Stuart: 00:05:54

It may be get, just a, a case of getting this thing out of my system,

Stuart: 00:05:58

and then I'll go back to whatever.

Stuart: 00:06:00

But, , but there we are.

Stuart: 00:06:01

That, so that was it, really.

Stuart: 00:06:02

It was a bit of a wing and a prayer, and a hope, and, and,

Stuart: 00:06:05

and, but like I say, I, I am good.

Stuart: 00:06:08

at embracing opportunity and I read somewhere, and this is brilliant, I

Stuart: 00:06:12

read somewhere, opportunities are never foghorns, they're always whispers and

Stuart: 00:06:17

you have to learn to tune into those or they'll go straight above your head.

Stuart: 00:06:22

And the gun, you know, and I've always been good at doing that.

Stuart: 00:06:24

And I always teach that as well.

Stuart: 00:06:25

When I teach, you know, like you say, I, I teach all the photographers, lighting and

Stuart: 00:06:30

photography and also the approach as well.

Becca: 00:06:33

Absolutely love that.

Becca: 00:06:34

And I love that you just went for it, even though the people around you

Becca: 00:06:38

were saying it wasn't going to happen.

Becca: 00:06:39

And funnily enough, there's actually some synergy with my own story,

Becca: 00:06:43

which you probably don't know.

Becca: 00:06:44

So we're going to have a little chit chat about that for a moment,

Becca: 00:06:46

because I went into television.

Becca: 00:06:48

That was my background, television and radio.

Becca: 00:06:50

I studied television at.

Becca: 00:06:51

University and I wanted to get into TV and I did a very similar thing to you that

Becca: 00:06:56

I just wrote to everyone on the credits of a TV show when everyone told me I was

Becca: 00:07:00

crazy to say, can I come and work for you?

Becca: 00:07:03

And I got a hundred no's and I always say that you might get a

Becca: 00:07:06

hundred no's, but it only takes one.

Becca: 00:07:07

Yes.

Becca: 00:07:08

And I got one.

Becca: 00:07:08

Yes.

Becca: 00:07:09

That was my first ever job in television.

Becca: 00:07:11

So it sounds like you took a similar kind of crazy man approach of like, let's just

Becca: 00:07:15

ask the question because you might get a hundred no's, but you might get one.

Becca: 00:07:19

Yes.

Becca: 00:07:20

So you obviously did get at least one.

Becca: 00:07:21

Yes.

Becca: 00:07:22

Tell us about what happened.

Stuart: 00:07:23

Well, I got 25 out of the 250, which again, the doom and gloom merchants

Stuart: 00:07:28

out there would go, that's a 90 percent failure rate, but with that 10 percent

Stuart: 00:07:33

success, it literally changed my life.

Stuart: 00:07:35

You know, it gave me some experience that you can't buy because I, I like

Stuart: 00:07:40

throwing myself in a deep end as well.

Stuart: 00:07:42

So, I, I'd go and, the first one that I shot was a guy called John Inman,

Stuart: 00:07:46

who used to be on Are You Being Served?

Stuart: 00:07:48

He was at Salisbury, at the Playhouse there, had plenty of time.

Stuart: 00:07:51

He gave me two hours, oh, this is great.

Stuart: 00:07:53

The next one was Melvin Bragg, from the ITV, from the South Bank Show.

Stuart: 00:07:57

And I went all the way down to London, what was it, London Weekend

Stuart: 00:08:00

Teleport, whatever it was called, South, the South Bank Studios, anyway.

Stuart: 00:08:03

And his secretary came out and said, we said half an hour, but he's got

Stuart: 00:08:06

a meeting, you've got ten minutes.

Stuart: 00:08:07

So I went from this thing going like, this is easy, two hours, to like ten minutes.

Stuart: 00:08:11

But I, in that ten minutes, I said to myself, Get, get something, you know,

Stuart: 00:08:17

get, dig deep and get something and I'm there now, sat on the train going back

Stuart: 00:08:20

to Salisbury, that's, , on that day and they went, the ten minutes went great

Stuart: 00:08:24

and I got a really nice portrait of him and I'm, , and I remember leaning back

Stuart: 00:08:28

in the seat thinking, this is what I want to do now, it's, I love the buzz, I love

Stuart: 00:08:33

the, , the adrenaline flow, you know, and moving on many years, you know, I've shot

Stuart: 00:08:37

Radio Times covers and things like that and, sometimes you'll get two minutes to

Stuart: 00:08:42

get a cover and you, and the adrenaline's flowing and all the rest of it.

Stuart: 00:08:47

But I do like this.

Stuart: 00:08:48

Apparently it's not very good for you that, but I do like

Stuart: 00:08:50

that buzz that it gives you.

Stuart: 00:08:51

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:08:52

So, so I got a bit hooked on that.

Becca: 00:08:54

Yeah, I totally understand that.

Becca: 00:08:55

Again, working in TV, there is nothing more exciting than

Becca: 00:08:58

working on a live TV set.

Becca: 00:09:00

Incredibly stressful, but you learn so much.

Becca: 00:09:03

So you graduated from college, you'd done your photography thing, you'd

Becca: 00:09:06

started working with these celebrities.

Becca: 00:09:08

So, how did you make your first money?

Becca: 00:09:10

Was it in the media world?

Stuart: 00:09:13

Yes, because I always did weddings.

Stuart: 00:09:15

Because as soon as I got a camera, you get friends saying, Oh, can you do my...

Stuart: 00:09:19

Yeah, of course, you know.

Stuart: 00:09:20

And then, sort of, to help eke out my grant, and I'm back in

Stuart: 00:09:24

the day when we got a grant.

Stuart: 00:09:25

Yeah, that was a long time ago, wasn't it?

Stuart: 00:09:27

I do a couple of weddings in a weekend for local photographers.

Stuart: 00:09:32

And just...

Stuart: 00:09:33

You know, go and hand the film over afterwards and, and cash

Stuart: 00:09:36

in hand, and that helped me get through, college, so that was great.

Stuart: 00:09:39

And I always enjoyed weddings, but what I didn't like about them

Stuart: 00:09:42

was the lack of creativity, which has obviously since changed.

Stuart: 00:09:46

So I went, I left college.

Stuart: 00:09:48

And, and hitting the streets of London twice a week with a folio, calluses on

Stuart: 00:09:52

my hands, seeing all the magazines and all the TV stations, et cetera, channels.

Stuart: 00:09:57

And, slowly but surely they'd give me a small job and, then if you

Stuart: 00:10:01

do a good job, so on and so on.

Stuart: 00:10:03

And my big massive break was the BBC threw me on Pride and Prejudice, the Colin

Stuart: 00:10:09

Firth one, you know, the famous one.

Stuart: 00:10:11

And, they said, Stuart, go on this.

Stuart: 00:10:14

You've done lots of TV before, haven't you?

Stuart: 00:10:16

Yes, of course.

Stuart: 00:10:17

I said lying through my teeth.

Stuart: 00:10:18

'cause it's like the equity card, you have to sort of lag it to

Stuart: 00:10:21

get, to get, get there, don't you?

Stuart: 00:10:23

To some degree, yes, of course.

Stuart: 00:10:25

I've done lots of experience, you know, so they threw me on this set

Stuart: 00:10:28

and they said, we've thrown about other three photographers on this

Stuart: 00:10:30

and nobody's come away with anything, so here's a good chance for you.

Stuart: 00:10:33

And some, some of the crew were dreadful.

Stuart: 00:10:36

They were absolutely horrible and, and deliberately spiteful and all this.

Stuart: 00:10:40

Anyway, on the second day, I, I don't bite my nails, I bit all my nails down.

Stuart: 00:10:44

Realizing there's an opportunity and they brought me Colin Firth and Jennifer

Stuart: 00:10:47

20 minutes and I got the main shot, the main poster picture, the main Penguin

Stuart: 00:10:53

book thing, you know, and, and that stayed in the folio for years afterwards.

Stuart: 00:10:56

And it used to drop out if I was showing somebody my folio and

Stuart: 00:11:00

they'd say, you took that picture.

Stuart: 00:11:01

You know, unfortunately with all the BBC and you'll know this.

Stuart: 00:11:05

I had to sign the rights away before I did the shot.

Stuart: 00:11:07

If I had kept the rights of that picture, that's.

Stuart: 00:11:10

still sells all around the world.

Stuart: 00:11:11

But anyway, there we go.

Stuart: 00:11:12

It, it was of its time, a means to an end and no regrets.

Stuart: 00:11:16

And that was my big break.

Stuart: 00:11:17

So, and then it's just plodding away, plodding away, plodding away, getting

Stuart: 00:11:21

hopefully higher and higher aiming towards that massive radio times cover, which

Stuart: 00:11:25

is, which is obviously the biggie, you know, and I didn't get that until 2007.

Stuart: 00:11:30

I finally got it.

Stuart: 00:11:31

And I famously said to my wife, when we're in the kitchen.

Stuart: 00:11:33

I'm going to get it, or I die, whichever happens first.

Stuart: 00:11:36

And I pointed to the wall and said it'll go there, and it'll never move.

Stuart: 00:11:41

And I'm very, very proud to say, Becca, my first one of many, because once you've got

Stuart: 00:11:45

one, it all seems to fall into place then.

Stuart: 00:11:47

The first one of many, which was James Nesbitt in Jekyll, was 2007.

Stuart: 00:11:51

It resides on my wall permanently now, and every now and again

Stuart: 00:11:54

I'll stop and give it a wink.

Becca: 00:11:56

Oh, I love that.

Becca: 00:11:57

You know, there's so much that I love about having this conversation because one

Becca: 00:12:01

of my things that I find really difficult in the wedding industry is that people

Becca: 00:12:04

can look at someone like yourself with an incredible amount of success and think it

Becca: 00:12:09

happened overnight and just expect that they can do the same thing overnight.

Becca: 00:12:14

Actually hearing that you were doing all of the things to start with, you

Becca: 00:12:18

were pounding the streets, you were reaching out to the people, you were

Becca: 00:12:21

making the most of your opportunities.

Becca: 00:12:23

And it's through that hard work, through that proactive attitude, through that,

Becca: 00:12:27

you know, working hard that you've got to where you have today, rather than

Becca: 00:12:32

it just being an overnight success.

Becca: 00:12:34

So I absolutely love it.

Becca: 00:12:36

This is fascinating.

Becca: 00:12:37

I could keep talking to you about all of these things all day.

Stuart: 00:12:41

Becca, if I can interject that, I wouldn't have had it any other way

Stuart: 00:12:43

because, you know, you learn so much.

Stuart: 00:12:45

If you have to crawl through the mud to get where you need to go,

Stuart: 00:12:49

you learn so much along the way.

Stuart: 00:12:51

I don't want an easy ride, you know, I don't want a door opening for me that

Stuart: 00:12:54

I'm, you know, that I'm not ready for.

Stuart: 00:12:55

I want to get that experience, you know, and, and, and I've always

Stuart: 00:12:59

said that, you know, the one I got along the way, you cannot buy.

Becca: 00:13:02

Yeah, and as I say to people all the time, it's a

Becca: 00:13:04

marathon, not a sprint that this is, you're in it for the long term.

Becca: 00:13:07

If you want this to be a long term successful business, the

Becca: 00:13:11

connections you make along the way, the things you learn on the journey

Becca: 00:13:14

are what makes the difference.

Becca: 00:13:15

And I also love that you've got your radio times cover,

Becca: 00:13:18

but it didn't happen overnight.

Becca: 00:13:19

It took you time.

Becca: 00:13:20

So people who are listening, you've got these big goals and big plans.

Becca: 00:13:24

Keep working towards it because it can happen eventually, but

Becca: 00:13:28

it might not happen overnight.

Becca: 00:13:30

So you've done all of this work.

Becca: 00:13:32

You've done broadcasts, you've done magazines.

Becca: 00:13:34

Let's get back to weddings.

Becca: 00:13:36

So you said that you did a few weddings here and there for people.

Becca: 00:13:39

You helped out, you did a few friends and family.

Becca: 00:13:42

At what point did you decide, right, weddings are going to be a

Becca: 00:13:44

real focus and part of my business?

Stuart: 00:13:46

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:13:47

Well, I suppose, like you say, for the marathon, rather than the

Stuart: 00:13:50

sprint, you have to evolve, you have to reinvent yourself, et cetera,

Stuart: 00:13:54

because things are going to change.

Stuart: 00:13:55

I mean, obviously in the 30, nearly 30 years I've done it, I've gone

Stuart: 00:13:59

from film to digital and, and all the changes that that has, has, has caused,

Stuart: 00:14:04

including, of course, one of my big set of clients used to be the magazines,

Stuart: 00:14:09

but they're arent any now, you know?

Stuart: 00:14:10

So I had to look at it, practically and think, I've got to find somewhere.

Stuart: 00:14:14

That's, you know, I've got a product that I think is a pretty good product that I

Stuart: 00:14:17

can sell, time to now to hopefully make some better money and, you know, purely

Stuart: 00:14:22

business like looking at it, thinking, looking at the weddings and seeing

Stuart: 00:14:26

what some of the top guys are getting.

Stuart: 00:14:28

And then I started noticing that all of a sudden it wasn't

Stuart: 00:14:32

just lying that I'm outside.

Stuart: 00:14:34

Church, like they're going to get shot, cut in the cave, you

Stuart: 00:14:36

know, rush off to the next one.

Stuart: 00:14:37

It, there was a heck of a lot more and a lot of creativity involved.

Stuart: 00:14:41

And especially that, what I'm, I know I'm good at, is connecting

Stuart: 00:14:45

with people and quickly.

Stuart: 00:14:47

And I can look at a portrait and I can tell if the photographer.

Stuart: 00:14:52

He or she's connected with that person just by the look in the eye.

Stuart: 00:14:55

And, you know, people tend to trust me and, and, and, and, and get on with it

Stuart: 00:14:59

pretty quickly, which is an asset when, when you've only got two minutes to shoot

Stuart: 00:15:02

a radio times cover, let's say, you know?

Stuart: 00:15:03

So I thought I'm going to bring all the, I've got a, now I've

Stuart: 00:15:06

got a set of unique skills here.

Stuart: 00:15:08

I know how to like men and women differently, you know, and I need

Stuart: 00:15:11

to work quickly, two minutes for a radio times cover, et cetera.

Stuart: 00:15:14

And also that.

Stuart: 00:15:16

That connection that I get, I've got a set of unique skills, you know, all

Stuart: 00:15:20

told, I suppose, that I can now bring to this new approach to shooting weddings.

Stuart: 00:15:25

So that was probably a dozen years ago now.

Stuart: 00:15:28

I, I...

Stuart: 00:15:29

Started doing that and, and honing my craft, to sort of where it

Stuart: 00:15:34

is today now and still learning.

Stuart: 00:15:35

I'm always learning and I'm always, I'm more passionate

Stuart: 00:15:38

now than the day I started.

Stuart: 00:15:39

And, you know, I will, there's one of my heroes, Norman Parkinson,

Stuart: 00:15:43

the old fashioned photographer.

Stuart: 00:15:45

He actually died on a commission, I think somewhere exotic like

Stuart: 00:15:49

the Seychelles, you know.

Stuart: 00:15:50

A drop with a camera in his hand.

Stuart: 00:15:52

I, I hope to go that way when it's my time in many, many,

Stuart: 00:15:56

many, many, many years from now.

Stuart: 00:15:58

Of course, you know, I've got too much to do yet, but, but I can't think of

Stuart: 00:16:01

a, unfortunately, we've all gotta go.

Stuart: 00:16:03

I can't think of a better way of going, really.

Becca: 00:16:05

And it's a testament to that decision you made all those years

Becca: 00:16:08

ago to walk away from Sainsbury's walk away from supermarkets, walk

Becca: 00:16:11

away from management, to think, actually, I'm gonna follow my passion.

Becca: 00:16:14

Because the fact that you're still passionate about it all

Becca: 00:16:17

these years later shows that you absolutely made the right decision.

Becca: 00:16:20

So you just.

Becca: 00:16:22

Let's go into the wedding industry.

Becca: 00:16:23

Let's make some money from this.

Becca: 00:16:25

How did you go about getting those first clients?

Becca: 00:16:27

Because again, when people come into the industry, that's one

Becca: 00:16:30

of the big struggles they have.

Becca: 00:16:31

So how did you, because it's a different kind of approach to broadcast media, how

Becca: 00:16:35

did you start finding wedding couples?

Stuart: 00:16:37

Well, yeah, that's a, that's a really interesting,

Stuart: 00:16:39

because again, everything I do, I seem to have to claw through the

Stuart: 00:16:43

mud to get to, but that's fine.

Stuart: 00:16:44

You know, now I started to hit the local wedding fairs.

Stuart: 00:16:47

And I wasn't successful at that at all, because...

Stuart: 00:16:52

I just don't think my style of photography, well, for instance, I'm

Stuart: 00:16:57

trying to be modest here, I suppose, which isn't one of my fortes, but I'll

Stuart: 00:17:02

tell you a story, we had a couple of friends around for dinner, and they

Stuart: 00:17:05

said, we've got a couple of friends that are getting married, and they've

Stuart: 00:17:07

been to the local wedding fairs, and we said, oh, have you seen Stuart,

Stuart: 00:17:09

and they said, we've seen Stuart at a couple of wedding fairs, he's a really

Stuart: 00:17:13

friendly, nice guy, and they said, are you going to use him, for your pictures.

Stuart: 00:17:17

And they said, nah, we haven't even asked him, but he's way above my

Stuart: 00:17:20

league or our league, you know?

Stuart: 00:17:22

And they, so, you know, this was the problem I had.

Stuart: 00:17:24

I could see folks looking at the pictures and kind of bananering

Stuart: 00:17:28

away from them, you know?

Stuart: 00:17:29

So I was not, I'm wasting everybody's time and mine by doing local wedding

Stuart: 00:17:34

fairs because I thought, you know, with, with what I can produce, cause you know,

Stuart: 00:17:38

the technical side of things and where I've worked, it's going to be very good.

Stuart: 00:17:41

I thought I'd be sort of beating them off with a stick.

Stuart: 00:17:43

I couldn't get them at all.

Stuart: 00:17:45

So I started, so I managed to get a few, a few sort of, you know, more of the...

Stuart: 00:17:50

A sort of, I, I dare I say the trendier guys, the more discerning guys that come

Stuart: 00:17:54

and say this is different, you know?

Stuart: 00:17:56

But it wasn't enough.

Stuart: 00:17:57

So then I started going up doing some of these , they don't call 'em wedding

Stuart: 00:18:00

fairs, they call 'em Mateliers , you know, and you've got like the, the Savoy

Stuart: 00:18:04

and that, and the difference was they were been honoring towards the pictures.

Stuart: 00:18:07

And I thought, well that's obviously, this is hopefully the, which

Stuart: 00:18:11

it's, it's what I want anyway.

Stuart: 00:18:12

This is where I'm destined to be, hopefully, you know, so I, I sort

Stuart: 00:18:16

of up my game, I suppose, and.

Stuart: 00:18:19

And went to those sort of venues and I started getting the likes

Stuart: 00:18:23

of the four seasons, recommending me and then so on and so on.

Stuart: 00:18:27

And, and, and that's, that's it basically.

Stuart: 00:18:30

And I still, as you know, on the thing I met you at a week or so ago.

Stuart: 00:18:35

Do a heck of a lot of networking all the time.

Stuart: 00:18:37

You cannot.

Stuart: 00:18:38

I went on a, a workshop with Greg Fink and he's one of the top 20

Stuart: 00:18:42

wedding photographers in the world.

Stuart: 00:18:43

And he's now a Mahito.

Stuart: 00:18:44

I've converted him into a Derby County fan and all that, you know,

Stuart: 00:18:47

even though he's a French guy.

Stuart: 00:18:49

And, and I said to him, you, you know, you've made it.

Stuart: 00:18:52

I'm not, I'm being patronizing, Greg.

Stuart: 00:18:53

You've, you've, you've worked damn hard to get there.

Stuart: 00:18:56

And he looked at me and he said, Stuart, if I relax for a year, I'd be gone.

Stuart: 00:19:00

You know, and, and I think that was a really, really important

Stuart: 00:19:04

lesson that, that, that the higher you go, the tougher it is.

Stuart: 00:19:08

I'll live with that though.

Stuart: 00:19:10

But, but.

Becca: 00:19:11

Yeah.

Becca: 00:19:12

And it's so true.

Becca: 00:19:13

You can't, you can't put a price on networking.

Becca: 00:19:15

You cannot put a price on building those connections.

Becca: 00:19:17

And there's always someone new coming in behind you, who's got skills, different

Becca: 00:19:22

ideas, different creativity and you're right, none of us can sit on our laurels

Becca: 00:19:26

and think, right, we've made it now.

Becca: 00:19:28

That's it.

Becca: 00:19:29

Because that'll be it.

Becca: 00:19:30

It will be it.

Becca: 00:19:31

You know, we've got to keep on going.

Becca: 00:19:32

We've got to keep on pushing.

Becca: 00:19:34

Now I want to pick back up on one thing you said, because I know that

Becca: 00:19:37

people will be shouting at the podcast.

Becca: 00:19:39

Because you make it sound so easy every single time.

Becca: 00:19:41

So I want to get into the nitty gritty.

Becca: 00:19:43

So you were doing the regular wedding fairs.

Becca: 00:19:46

They weren't working for you.

Becca: 00:19:47

They weren't your ideal client.

Becca: 00:19:48

You knew you needed to go to the high end.

Becca: 00:19:50

So you went to the Ateliers, the Savoy, the Four Seasons.

Becca: 00:19:54

People are going to be thinking, well, I dream about getting in with those venues.

Becca: 00:19:57

You So how did you do it?

Stuart: 00:19:59

Well, yeah, paid a lot of money to, to attend the ateliers,

Stuart: 00:20:03

first of all, and thinking, I hope this works out, because, but, you

Stuart: 00:20:06

know, hey, that's life, isn't it?

Stuart: 00:20:07

You know, it's, everything's going to be a gamble at some stage, isn't it?

Stuart: 00:20:11

But also, using my connections, I suppose, as well.

Stuart: 00:20:13

For instance, I used to shoot, my, my team is Derby County, you know.

Stuart: 00:20:18

Let's move on quickly where we are at the moment, but I used to shoot all

Stuart: 00:20:22

the, the players for the, the program, the covers, et cetera, you know,

Stuart: 00:20:26

and, , and they'd bung me a couple of seats in the press box for every game.

Stuart: 00:20:29

And I'd be happy with that, you know, cause I'm meeting my players anyway.

Stuart: 00:20:32

We just, we just won a promotion back to the, to the premier league

Stuart: 00:20:37

and my captain, Matt Oakley, , as it were my team's captain, Matt Oakley

Stuart: 00:20:41

was getting married the four seasons always gone really well with Matt.

Stuart: 00:20:44

He said to me, Stuart.

Stuart: 00:20:45

Do you fancy doing my wedding?

Stuart: 00:20:46

I went, What?

Stuart: 00:20:48

Photographing my captain's wedding at the Four Seasons.

Stuart: 00:20:50

Go on then, you know.

Stuart: 00:20:51

So I went, and met, the lovely Lisa O'Reilly, at the Four Seasons in

Stuart: 00:20:55

Hampshire, who I call my guardian angel.

Stuart: 00:20:57

And I met her, and we had a lovely meeting outside, and I said, and of

Stuart: 00:21:01

course, you, you know this, Becker, I'm not backward at coming forward.

Stuart: 00:21:04

I slipped into the conversation, is there any chance of, how do you

Stuart: 00:21:07

get on your recommended surprise list, you know, as photographers?

Stuart: 00:21:10

And she basically said, Stuart, we've got loads of photographers.

Stuart: 00:21:12

Thanks.

Stuart: 00:21:13

You know, it's okay.

Stuart: 00:21:14

But then I kept in touch with her and then she saw the album that I'd shot for Matt.

Stuart: 00:21:20

And she rang me up and said, We've never seen this space

Stuart: 00:21:23

used like this before, you see.

Stuart: 00:21:25

Can you come and see us?

Stuart: 00:21:26

So I went down and saw her and, became one of her recommended guys and, and

Stuart: 00:21:30

so on, you know, and then obviously once you've got one under your

Stuart: 00:21:33

arm, you can work on the other four seasons, use the connections and so on.

Stuart: 00:21:37

Will you introduce me to such a bloody, and, and Lisa has been, Brilliant over

Stuart: 00:21:41

the years, she introduced me to a lovely Middle Eastern family that fly me all

Stuart: 00:21:46

over the place as well, you know, and when I thank her, she goes, No, you did it.

Stuart: 00:21:50

You pick the ball and run with it.

Stuart: 00:21:51

I went, No, but you, you've always been there for me, Lisa.

Stuart: 00:21:54

And very, very proudly, I know going a bit off kilter as I do here off topic, but

Stuart: 00:22:00

one of my proudest moments is for the 75th anniversary of D Day, I took five years,

Stuart: 00:22:05

I gave myself five years to shoot as many veterans as I could, men and women.

Stuart: 00:22:10

And it became a massive, it became the main exhibition for

Stuart: 00:22:13

the National Memorial Arboretum.

Stuart: 00:22:15

Lisa, bless her, gave me the whole event space at 10 Trinity

Stuart: 00:22:18

Square in London for an evening.

Stuart: 00:22:20

And then, canapes, wine, all this.

Stuart: 00:22:22

It was amazing.

Stuart: 00:22:22

We got, we got all the vets down and entertained them and thanked them.

Stuart: 00:22:26

And then it was shipped out to the National Army Museum at Chelsea

Stuart: 00:22:28

the next day, till after Christmas.

Stuart: 00:22:30

It became a handmade book that raised thousands for, for veterans

Stuart: 00:22:33

charities and things like that.

Stuart: 00:22:35

But she again, she was there to sort me out this venue.

Stuart: 00:22:38

And so she's, she's been amazing and always has been.

Stuart: 00:22:40

And like I say, yeah, she doesn't take any credit, but I'm always giving it to her.

Stuart: 00:22:44

So, you know, again, going back to that word opportunity, I will

Stuart: 00:22:49

hear that whisper and, and, and I'll, I will, it will register.

Stuart: 00:22:53

A lot of people.

Stuart: 00:22:54

It goes over the heads.

Stuart: 00:22:55

I've always been good at hearing those whispers.

Stuart: 00:22:57

You know, it ain't

Stuart: 00:22:58

a, opportunity is not a door with a neon sign over it.

Stuart: 00:23:01

You know, it's like, you've got to get, and this is what I, when I teach this on

Stuart: 00:23:06

my courses, you know, you've got to get through that door and if need be, cram

Stuart: 00:23:11

your foot in the door and go through it.

Stuart: 00:23:13

Cause if you don't, somebody like me, well, it's that simple, you know?

Stuart: 00:23:17

So I've always been good at that.

Stuart: 00:23:19

And, and, and, and that's kind of obviously reaped its rewards.

Stuart: 00:23:22

These days,

Becca: 00:23:24

and everything's coming back to the same thing, right?

Becca: 00:23:26

Relationships, building relationships, being a good people person, you know,

Becca: 00:23:30

you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Becca: 00:23:32

All of these things come back to having great relationships and then

Becca: 00:23:36

making the most of opportunities and having amazing work as well.

Becca: 00:23:40

Now, I want to talk to you.

Becca: 00:23:42

Oh yeah, go for it.

Stuart: 00:23:43

Sorry.

Stuart: 00:23:43

May I just say on that point as well, becca, just as important.

Stuart: 00:23:47

you know, Lisa and all the other guys that recommend me know, , that

Stuart: 00:23:50

they, I will represent them properly.

Stuart: 00:23:53

You know, if there is an issue, you keep your mouth shut and you walk away.

Stuart: 00:23:57

First of all, you don't make issues.

Stuart: 00:23:59

You're kind and courteous, you know, et cetera.

Stuart: 00:24:01

And, and I'm all, and I've had this right from the start when I've been

Stuart: 00:24:04

representing the big magazines or the big TV companies, you know, you always

Stuart: 00:24:09

represent them properly, excuse me.

Stuart: 00:24:11

And then we'll know.

Stuart: 00:24:14

that they can rely on you to do that, and, and they'll have no

Stuart: 00:24:16

qualms about passing your name on.

Stuart: 00:24:18

But if there's any doubt there, it won't happen.

Becca: 00:24:22

Yeah, absolutely.

Becca: 00:24:23

And it always comes back to the basics.

Becca: 00:24:25

Be a good person, be a professional person, and be

Becca: 00:24:29

friendly to everyone at the top.

Becca: 00:24:30

All the way down to the bottom.

Becca: 00:24:33

Now, Stuart, I would love to get into a conversation about pricing because

Becca: 00:24:37

I know that this is an area that a lot of my wedding pros really struggle with

Becca: 00:24:43

because we know, right between me and you, you could go out tomorrow and hire

Becca: 00:24:46

a wedding photographer for 150 quid, or you could go out there and hire a wedding

Becca: 00:24:51

photographer for 10,000 pounds, right?

Becca: 00:24:53

There is all ends of the spectrum.

Becca: 00:24:55

So when you realized, okay, I'm not for this kind of general market of wedding

Becca: 00:24:59

fairs, I need to be at the Savoy level.

Becca: 00:25:01

How did you come up with your initial pricing?

Becca: 00:25:03

How did you decide where that should fit?

Stuart: 00:25:05

That's another great question.

Stuart: 00:25:07

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:25:07

Cause you don't know, do you?

Stuart: 00:25:08

Cause you think, blimey, you know, you sticking the finger in the mouth

Stuart: 00:25:12

and sort of testing the air, isn't it?

Stuart: 00:25:13

You know?

Stuart: 00:25:14

So, and it is a bit of that.

Stuart: 00:25:15

And obviously, you know, if you've got any friends, get some advice.

Stuart: 00:25:19

Can you tell me what you charge, you know, or thereabouts and

Stuart: 00:25:22

sort of gauge it by that really.

Stuart: 00:25:24

And, , you know, hopefully get to a price.

Stuart: 00:25:27

Well, they don't fall over when you tell them, cause there's not much point

Stuart: 00:25:29

in you being there if you just, if you just set a price that nobody's going

Stuart: 00:25:32

to buy you for, but never ever on the selling yourself, you know, I, I, I,

Stuart: 00:25:40

again, this is my personal business.

Stuart: 00:25:43

It's my personal point of view as well.

Stuart: 00:25:45

I think I've got a damn good product to sell, you know, so, and I've

Stuart: 00:25:48

had people come up to me saying, well, can you do it for the X?

Stuart: 00:25:51

Because, we've got loads of guys.

Stuart: 00:25:54

One of the charges X, but we can see the difference with you.

Stuart: 00:25:58

And I'm going, there you go.

Stuart: 00:25:59

You just answered your own question.

Stuart: 00:26:01

I'm, you know, you wouldn't, I said, you wouldn't go into a, Ferrari

Stuart: 00:26:04

showroom and say, well, I can get a mini for, nothing wrong with a mini or

Stuart: 00:26:08

whatever car, you know, for a lot less.

Stuart: 00:26:10

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:26:10

But you're in my showroom, aren't you?

Stuart: 00:26:11

You're in the Ferrari showroom, you know?

Stuart: 00:26:13

So, so pricing wise, it's always an issue, I suppose.

Stuart: 00:26:19

And, you know, but hopefully now I'm sort of hankering at the.

Stuart: 00:26:24

At the higher prices rather than hanging at the lower ones, which

Stuart: 00:26:28

is I suppose the big difference And i'm pretty pleased about that

Stuart: 00:26:31

as well at this stage in my career

Becca: 00:26:33

Yeah, absolutely.

Becca: 00:26:33

And having the confidence and actually there's a lot less competition

Becca: 00:26:36

at the top than there is at the bottom, like people will battle

Becca: 00:26:40

you down for those bottom prices.

Becca: 00:26:42

There's everyone and their dog wants to give the cheapest photography,

Becca: 00:26:45

but there's not a lot of people going there for the top photography.

Becca: 00:26:49

Would you be willing to let us know on average, what are you

Becca: 00:26:52

going out for, for a wedding?

Stuart: 00:26:53

Well, yeah, because I mean, I advertise it anyway.

Stuart: 00:26:55

My prices start from 3k.

Stuart: 00:26:59

That's a very, very short wedding, to, to a full day at 4K, and then

Stuart: 00:27:03

with, if you want the Italian handmade album, we're looking at 6K.

Stuart: 00:27:07

There are, there are other sort of, I don't, I, I should, I've been told not

Stuart: 00:27:11

to say packages, collections, darling.

Stuart: 00:27:13

There are other collections, darling, upward of that as well that, you

Stuart: 00:27:16

know, my sort of, my elite clients have as well, you know, but, but

Stuart: 00:27:20

they're the, they're the sort of.

Stuart: 00:27:22

The ballpark ones, if you like, and obviously for the, you know,

Stuart: 00:27:24

for the 6K, you're going to get pretty much everything anyway.

Stuart: 00:27:28

You know, the full day assistant, if they want second shooters, it's more, and, and

Stuart: 00:27:32

the incredible best albums in the world, Graffi Studio, handmade Italian albums.

Stuart: 00:27:37

You know, they're going to get one of those as well on top.

Stuart: 00:27:39

So, so, and that's a bad deal.

Becca: 00:27:43

I think that's a very good deal.

Becca: 00:27:44

I think you should raise your prices, put them up,

Stuart: 00:27:46

keep up.

Stuart: 00:27:47

Well, I'm working on it.

Stuart: 00:27:48

As I say, you have to have a started, but here's the thing.

Stuart: 00:27:51

Becca, because, you know, I'm, I, I have one last ambition, I reckon I've

Stuart: 00:27:56

got 10 years left rushing around like I do, and that's to try and get to

Stuart: 00:28:00

the very top, and I'm hearing that some guys up there, you know, are on

Stuart: 00:28:05

forty, sixty thousand dollars a day.

Stuart: 00:28:08

I probably won't get there.

Stuart: 00:28:09

I might do.

Stuart: 00:28:09

I'm going to give it the best shot.

Stuart: 00:28:11

And so, you know, it will go up sort of, I suppose, incrementally

Stuart: 00:28:15

as I, as I hopefully progress.

Becca: 00:28:17

Absolutely.

Becca: 00:28:18

Now, one of my bugbears in the industry, which we're going to have

Becca: 00:28:20

a little chat about is that a lot of people band around the word luxury.

Becca: 00:28:25

Okay.

Becca: 00:28:25

So all the time I want to be serving luxury clients.

Becca: 00:28:27

I want to be luxury.

Becca: 00:28:28

I want to be in the luxury end of the market.

Becca: 00:28:32

Actually, what does that?

Becca: 00:28:34

mean?

Becca: 00:28:34

Where are we talking now?

Becca: 00:28:36

I would put you at that point in the market.

Becca: 00:28:38

I would say yes, you are working at a luxury point in the market.

Becca: 00:28:41

So what do you think that word luxury really means when

Becca: 00:28:44

we're overusing it too much?

Becca: 00:28:46

And what do you think those higher spend couples expect that's

Becca: 00:28:50

different to the average Joe?

Stuart: 00:28:52

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:28:53

First of all, yeah, it's, it's lost, lost its worth, hasn't it?

Stuart: 00:28:56

Because everyone's a luxury photographer.

Stuart: 00:28:58

You know, give them a year and, you know, look, I, I say good luck to anyone.

Stuart: 00:29:03

I, I, here's another thing as well that I always, when I

Stuart: 00:29:07

teach my classes, excuse me.

Stuart: 00:29:10

You're going to see people that you personally think, but I'm better

Stuart: 00:29:14

than her or him doing better.

Stuart: 00:29:17

And I always say to my folks that rock up and let me teach them, you

Stuart: 00:29:22

know, learn to say good luck to them.

Stuart: 00:29:24

They're doing something that you're not, you know, and

Stuart: 00:29:26

they're doing something right.

Stuart: 00:29:28

Maybe they're better at marketing, branding, whatever, whatever.

Stuart: 00:29:30

You know, so, but I, I know that, that I have an edge if I can get my branding,

Stuart: 00:29:37

you know, absolutely spot on, which is I'm kind of working on all the time,

Stuart: 00:29:40

like everyone else because of what I can deliver at that end, because not

Stuart: 00:29:45

because, I'm a genius or whatever, whatever, but because of the, of the,

Stuart: 00:29:50

again, crawling through the mud all those years ago, all the, all that experience,

Stuart: 00:29:54

you know, getting two minutes with.

Stuart: 00:29:56

James Corden and Paul McCartney for a Radio Times cover, blahdy blahdy

Stuart: 00:29:59

blah, but you've still got to get the lighting right, you've still got to

Stuart: 00:30:03

get this right, and all the rest of it.

Stuart: 00:30:04

So all that, I know I can deliver at the top, at the very top end.

Stuart: 00:30:09

For instance, I did a big, Middle Eastern wedding, in Zurich at the

Stuart: 00:30:12

start of the year, and, and the mum came up to me and said, you're, I

Stuart: 00:30:15

want you to get my, a portrait of my daughter, and you're the one.

Stuart: 00:30:19

Guy to do it.

Stuart: 00:30:20

I want a Vogue portrait and I said to her I'm gonna get

Stuart: 00:30:23

you a Vogue cover So I got it.

Stuart: 00:30:26

Not literally obviously, but I mean the standard of And believe

Stuart: 00:30:30

it or not, I've just got the album order through for her album now.

Stuart: 00:30:34

And as a little bit of a, sort of a joke, I gave her the straight picture of this.

Stuart: 00:30:38

And then I also did a mock up of a Vogue cover.

Stuart: 00:30:41

She chose the Vogue cover to go in the album because she

Stuart: 00:30:43

loves it that much, you know.

Stuart: 00:30:45

So, yes, that word, it's far too stretched and tarnished these days, isn't it?

Stuart: 00:30:51

Because everyone's luxury.

Stuart: 00:30:52

I think you've got to go out and prove that you are.

Stuart: 00:30:56

And, and show that you are, you know, and hopefully, you know, cause

Stuart: 00:31:01

I don't, I don't, I don't think we've touched on it at this point.

Stuart: 00:31:03

I've, I've, employed the services of the very lovely Joy Proctor, you know, who's

Stuart: 00:31:07

the biggest wedding designer in the world.

Stuart: 00:31:10

And she looked at my pictures, and, and said, what do you want?

Stuart: 00:31:13

And I said, I want to go as far as I can, Joy.

Stuart: 00:31:15

So, and she actually said, Stuart, your pictures, these are her words, not

Stuart: 00:31:19

mine, are every bit as good as the top guys, but your branding is terrible.

Stuart: 00:31:23

And I said, okay, got it.

Stuart: 00:31:25

And I spent too many years, Becca, and luckily I didn't waste them, thinking

Stuart: 00:31:30

if I could just concentrate on becoming the best photographer that I possibly

Stuart: 00:31:33

can, everything falls into place.

Stuart: 00:31:36

It doesn't.

Stuart: 00:31:37

But, the good news is, I didn't waste those years by becoming

Stuart: 00:31:41

the best photographer that I can.

Stuart: 00:31:44

And I'm not saying I'm the best in the world, I'm just saying

Stuart: 00:31:46

the best that I can, okay?

Stuart: 00:31:48

That's all.

Stuart: 00:31:48

Now, what was the rest of the question?

Stuart: 00:31:50

I forgot.

Stuart: 00:31:52

What was the last one?

Becca: 00:31:52

Yeah, that, that was basically it.

Becca: 00:31:54

What are they expecting?

Becca: 00:31:55

What are high end couples expecting?

Stuart: 00:31:56

Oh, right.

Stuart: 00:31:56

They expect, because this is the thing, and this is great, isn't it?

Stuart: 00:32:02

Get out of your comfort zone.

Stuart: 00:32:04

Get nervous.

Stuart: 00:32:05

Get frightened, you know?

Stuart: 00:32:06

That's good.

Stuart: 00:32:08

Okay?

Stuart: 00:32:08

That's great.

Stuart: 00:32:10

You know, get out.

Stuart: 00:32:10

It wasn't Bowie said, go out, out the safe water until your toes

Stuart: 00:32:14

are hardly touching the bottom.

Stuart: 00:32:16

That's where you'll get the best out of you, you know, and that's amazing advice.

Stuart: 00:32:20

And it's absolutely true.

Stuart: 00:32:21

You know, so of course, when you get to these people, they are used

Stuart: 00:32:26

to the best of the best of the best and they know the difference.

Stuart: 00:32:30

Okay.

Stuart: 00:32:31

So you have got.

Stuart: 00:32:32

To come up with the goods or you won't, you will not thrive at that level.

Stuart: 00:32:37

It's just that simple.

Stuart: 00:32:38

So that's what they're after.

Stuart: 00:32:39

They're after, and I'm not suggesting I am, you know, whatever.

Stuart: 00:32:43

That's a very English thing to say, I suppose.

Stuart: 00:32:45

But, but what I'm saying is they will only have the best of the

Stuart: 00:32:48

best of the best, and that's it.

Stuart: 00:32:49

And you've got to raise your game.

Stuart: 00:32:51

And if it means you don't sleep the night before, fine.

Stuart: 00:32:54

That's good.

Stuart: 00:32:55

You know, the thing I did again, I'm, I'm going off whatever,

Stuart: 00:32:58

but I'll tell you this.

Stuart: 00:32:59

I was asked, I write a resonant column for a photography magazine and this,

Stuart: 00:33:03

professional image maker named the, the Mike, the editor rang me up just after

Stuart: 00:33:07

lockdown and said, look, Photographers have a dreadful year, especially wedding

Stuart: 00:33:11

photographers, for obvious reasons.

Stuart: 00:33:12

We need an article to cheer them up.

Stuart: 00:33:14

You're the guy to do it, because you're always very positive.

Stuart: 00:33:17

And I said, funnily enough, I've been studying this very subject.

Stuart: 00:33:20

Why is it that, like, during lockdown, some crawled under a

Stuart: 00:33:25

rock, you never heard of them.

Stuart: 00:33:26

Some like me, you know, because I had the time.

Stuart: 00:33:32

What's the difference when we've, we've all got the same basic bit of

Stuart: 00:33:35

equipment between our ears, you know?

Stuart: 00:33:36

And I found this out and it's absolutely fascinating.

Stuart: 00:33:38

This is a subject on its own, but we've all got a little thing in our head.

Stuart: 00:33:42

Call the amygdala.

Stuart: 00:33:43

Okay?

Stuart: 00:33:43

And that makes you scared.

Stuart: 00:33:45

Now we've all got it and, and we've all got a little voice.

Stuart: 00:33:48

And I'm sure Becca, you can regale many a story of, this

Stuart: 00:33:51

little voice saying, be, Becca.

Stuart: 00:33:52

Don't do that.

Stuart: 00:33:53

You'll make yourself look stupid.

Stuart: 00:33:54

You know?

Stuart: 00:33:55

Don't do that.

Stuart: 00:33:55

You're all right, Becca.

Stuart: 00:33:56

You're safe.

Stuart: 00:33:57

Don't push it.

Stuart: 00:33:58

All right.

Stuart: 00:33:58

You're okay.

Stuart: 00:33:59

And nature's put that in our heads.

Stuart: 00:34:01

Okay.

Stuart: 00:34:01

Now, most people, as Theroux said, what was it?

Stuart: 00:34:04

William Henry Theroux, not Louis Theroux.

Stuart: 00:34:06

Most men live a life of quiet desperation because this voice is

Stuart: 00:34:11

saying, you know, stay where you are.

Stuart: 00:34:13

You're fine.

Stuart: 00:34:14

I don't listen to it.

Stuart: 00:34:15

Okay.

Stuart: 00:34:15

And, and not knowingly, , I Back in the day when I went to college, instead

Stuart: 00:34:20

of doing the Sainsbury's thing, I've always sort of kicked off against that.

Stuart: 00:34:24

And there's a guy called Seth Godin, that you'll find lots of, great

Stuart: 00:34:27

motivator on YouTube and all that lot.

Stuart: 00:34:29

He says, when that little voice is in your head, okay, telling you to stop that's a

Stuart: 00:34:34

green light because you know you're onto something good and I've harnessed that now

Stuart: 00:34:38

and it's great I tell you because we all get it so you know if you get if it makes

Stuart: 00:34:43

you nervous the fact that you want to move into the ultra luxury part of the wedding

Stuart: 00:34:47

industry good right because that's the green light go for the damn thing because

Stuart: 00:34:53

and here's the thing don't waste too many years until it's too late All right,

Stuart: 00:34:56

you don't want any regrets at the end.

Stuart: 00:34:59

I'm going to go for it, and I kid you not, my ambition, and I'll either make it or

Stuart: 00:35:03

I won't, is to become one of the top 20 Vogue photographers in the world, knowing

Stuart: 00:35:08

that it's virtually impossible to get, but that's my goal now, and I'll either do

Stuart: 00:35:11

it or I won't, you know, but I'm chipping away at it every day, because when I'm

Stuart: 00:35:16

gasping my last in many, many, many, many, many years from now, there will be no

Stuart: 00:35:21

regrets and that's what's going to happen.

Becca: 00:35:23

You'll either get it or you'll die trying.

Becca: 00:35:24

You've just got to go for it.

Becca: 00:35:26

And I think that's the motto that more and more of us need to live by.

Becca: 00:35:31

Because if we don't go for it, someone else coming up behind you

Becca: 00:35:34

will go there and do it instead.

Becca: 00:35:36

So yeah, I hundred percent agree with everything that you're saying.

Becca: 00:35:39

I've got one final question before we start to bring

Becca: 00:35:41

this conversation to a close.

Becca: 00:35:43

Because again, I know that lots of people in my world, people who

Becca: 00:35:46

are listening to this podcast are saying, right, I want to work with

Becca: 00:35:49

some of these higher spend couples.

Becca: 00:35:51

I know my work's good enough.

Becca: 00:35:52

But Becca, I just don't know where to find them.

Becca: 00:35:54

I don't know where they spend their time.

Becca: 00:35:56

So from your experience, Stuart, where do your couples come from?

Becca: 00:35:59

Where do they find you?

Stuart: 00:36:00

Recommendation, word of mouth, either from wedding

Stuart: 00:36:03

planners or venues or themselves.

Stuart: 00:36:09

Because.

Stuart: 00:36:10

You won't find them in, well, there ain't a Yellow Pages anymore, is there?

Stuart: 00:36:13

You won't find them on Google.

Stuart: 00:36:14

This Middle Eastern family who love me to bits and say I'm one of the

Stuart: 00:36:18

family, even though, with my Celtic skin, Irish extraction, I always

Stuart: 00:36:22

say, you must have some weird Irish gene in your, in your Middle Eastern

Stuart: 00:36:26

DNA then, because look at, you know.

Stuart: 00:36:28

But, you know, they recommend me.

Stuart: 00:36:30

They came across me by the lovely Lisa, of course, that I've already touched on.

Stuart: 00:36:34

But you won't find them anywhere else.

Stuart: 00:36:36

So to get to those people, you know, you have to crack the planners and,

Stuart: 00:36:41

in my experience and the venues.

Stuart: 00:36:43

And like I say, you will also get known amongst those, those people as well.

Becca: 00:36:46

Okay.

Becca: 00:36:47

So in summary from this conversation, what I'm taking away

Becca: 00:36:50

is you need to hone your craft.

Becca: 00:36:51

You need to crawl through the mud and do all of the things you need to

Becca: 00:36:54

pay your way into the right spaces.

Becca: 00:36:56

So you put yourself in the ateliers, you put yourself in that luxury area, and

Becca: 00:37:00

then you build incredible relationships.

Becca: 00:37:03

Would you say that's the key to success in a nutshell?

Stuart: 00:37:05

That's kind of what I, how I've done it, I suppose you'll get

Stuart: 00:37:08

another 10 guys and girls on that will go, well, actually I did it

Stuart: 00:37:11

differently, but that's how I did it.

Stuart: 00:37:13

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:37:13

That's how I, excuse me.

Stuart: 00:37:14

Continue to do it.

Stuart: 00:37:15

Yeah.

Stuart: 00:37:16

So yes.

Becca: 00:37:17

Fab.

Becca: 00:37:18

I've absolutely loved this conversation.

Becca: 00:37:19

I really could carry on talking to you for another half an hour,

Becca: 00:37:22

but we're running out of time.

Becca: 00:37:24

So I'm going to end with the question I end every podcast with, which is this.

Becca: 00:37:28

Stuart, what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your business?

Stuart: 00:37:32

We've kind of touched on this earlier on, but I'll sort of

Stuart: 00:37:37

continue or finish off, by sort of embellishing it a little bit more.

Stuart: 00:37:41

What I wish I'd known is how quick the time goes.

Stuart: 00:37:45

And so do not.

Stuart: 00:37:47

This is a thing, and we touched on it a couple of minutes ago.

Stuart: 00:37:50

Don't put it off for next year.

Stuart: 00:37:52

Don't think, oh, I'll do it in five years.

Stuart: 00:37:54

I'm not ready yet.

Stuart: 00:37:55

You know, there's a, there's a great fan.

Stuart: 00:37:58

It's, it's called, it's named, , I think the most motivated national,

Stuart: 00:38:03

speech on, the internet, YouTube, it's on Peter Dinkle, the guy.

Stuart: 00:38:08

The Game of Thrones.

Stuart: 00:38:09

Watch it.

Stuart: 00:38:10

It goes back to his college, and I think it's about half an hour.

Stuart: 00:38:13

Watch it all, and it's very funny, but the last ten, I think it's about

Stuart: 00:38:16

five minutes, are just amazing, you know, and, and he says, do not

Stuart: 00:38:22

wait for permission from the world.

Stuart: 00:38:24

Okay, because they'll, it will never ask you and, and he said, I waited

Stuart: 00:38:29

too long and so did I, in certain instances, like I've said earlier, don't

Stuart: 00:38:33

wait for people to ask you, go and do it, go and do it, make your mistakes.

Stuart: 00:38:37

It doesn't matter.

Stuart: 00:38:38

You'll make mistakes.

Stuart: 00:38:39

It doesn't matter.

Stuart: 00:38:40

Just go and do it and have no regrets.

Stuart: 00:38:42

So, so, the, the answer to your question is I didn't realize.

Stuart: 00:38:46

How quick the time was going to go and, and I'm, I'm more motivated than

Stuart: 00:38:49

ever because I know I've got this nearly 30 years experience now, but

Stuart: 00:38:53

I haven't got another 30 years to put into practice, you know, so I'm going

Stuart: 00:38:56

hell for leather, and, we'll see where I end up.

Stuart: 00:38:59

Well, I don't know where it will be, but it'd be interesting

Stuart: 00:39:01

because it's always interesting.

Becca: 00:39:02

And I'm going to be interested.

Becca: 00:39:04

So if you're interested to watch your journey, keep going

Becca: 00:39:06

for it, you will get there.

Becca: 00:39:07

Those Vogue top 20 photographers, and when you do Stuart, host a party at

Becca: 00:39:11

the Savoy, all the four seasons to celebrate, and I'll come and drink a

Becca: 00:39:15

glass of champagne to your success.

Becca: 00:39:17

Absolutely.

Stuart: 00:39:19

That's it.

Stuart: 00:39:20

That's a date, absolutely.

Becca: 00:39:22

If people want to find out more about you Stuart, if people

Becca: 00:39:24

want to connect with you, if they want to find out about your classes,

Becca: 00:39:27

all of that stuff, where's the best place for them to find you?

Becca: 00:39:30

Yeah,

Stuart: 00:39:30

I, I'm on the Instagram of course, and it's quite simple, and

Stuart: 00:39:35

it's Stuart, S T U A R T, just simply, at Stuart Wood photo.

Stuart: 00:39:40

I have Stuart Wood weddings.com is the website.

Stuart: 00:39:45

If you wanna look at my magazine and TV stuff, which I still do.

Stuart: 00:39:48

It's stuart hyphen wood.com.

Stuart: 00:39:51

Unfortunately, the, the, apparently there's a Bay roller

Stuart: 00:39:54

called Stuart Wood and he got on first with stewart wood.com.

Stuart: 00:39:58

So, , I have to put a hyphen in between mine, so it's stuart hyphen wood.com.

Becca: 00:40:02

That is true because when I Googled Stuart Wood, that's who came up first.

Becca: 00:40:05

But as soon as I added the word photography, you came up everywhere.

Becca: 00:40:08

So that's my little tip for people that want to find you.

Becca: 00:40:10

Just add the word photography.

Becca: 00:40:12

And of course, I will put all of your links in the show notes as well.

Becca: 00:40:16

Stuart, it's been such a pleasure.

Becca: 00:40:17

Thank you so much for being here.

Stuart: 00:40:19

Pleasure.

Stuart: 00:40:19

Thank you, Becca.

Becca: 00:40:21

Wasn't that the most interesting, fascinating conversation?

Becca: 00:40:24

I know so many of you will have taken so many little nuggets away from it.

Becca: 00:40:28

And it's a reminder, isn't it, that when you see someone on Instagram, when

Becca: 00:40:31

you see someone speaking on stage, and you think, I just want to understand

Becca: 00:40:35

how they got to where they got to, there's always a story to be told.

Becca: 00:40:38

And there's always a huge amount of hard work that's gone into the journey.

Becca: 00:40:42

If there's more people you want to hear from, you want to hear their stories.

Becca: 00:40:45

Let me know and let's get them on the podcast.

Becca: 00:40:47

Have a great week and I'll see you next time.