Description:

Today I speak with Elly Katz, founder of a unique program that connects older adults, "sages," with younger generations, "seekers." The program aims to provide a platform for intergenerational learning and share hard-earned life lessons. During the discussion, Elly shares the impact the program has had on both sages and seekers, including increased happiness and relevance for the older adults and increased empathy for the younger generation. The conversation also touches upon the challenges posed by the current world of smartphones and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the program.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to be inspired and make a difference in their community.

Take-aways:

1. There is an empathy deficit and creating opportunities for intergenerational conversations is helping reduce this lack of empathy in the participants.
2. Consider an encore career. Elly went from being a graphic designer to starting this award-winning non-profit.
3. Feel the power of your years of experience and wisdom.
4. If you pursue something you are passionate about, you almost feel no fear.

Enroll in Sages and Seekers here: https://sagesandseekers.org

You can contact Elly at ekatz@sagesandseekers.org

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You can email me with questions or comments at wendy@heyboomer.biz

–

Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the

sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what’s next.”

Find out more about Wendy’s 6-week “What’s Next Transition” Coaching program

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Download the Vitality Assessment from heyboomer.biz

Check out ThePerfectCatch.com if you are looking for some dating help.

Produced by the the Greenville Podcast Company

Wendy:

And welcome to Hey, Boomer.

Wendy:

There's a show for those of us who believe that we are never.

Elly:

Too old to.

Wendy:

Set a new goal or a dream.

Wendy:

A new dream. My name is Wendy Green, and I am your host for Hey, Boomer.

Wendy:

And with Hey, Boomer, I am on a mission to support and inspire older adults.

Wendy:

As we look for new beginnings, confront endings and transitions, and evolve into who

Wendy:

we want to be.

Wendy:

And how do I do that?

Wendy:

I do that by bringing amazing guests onto the Jay Boomer show.

Wendy:

And I do that by offering coaching, transition coaching to people who are looking

Wendy:

for new beginnings and confronting endings and just want a little help along the way.

Wendy:

So my amazing guest for this week is Elly Katz.

Wendy:

She is the founder and executive director of Sages and Seekers.

Wendy:

This is a nonprofit with a mission to develop empathy while combating social

Wendy:

isolation and ageism.

Wendy:

The Sages and Seekers eight week intergenerational program has changed the

Wendy:

lives of thousands of older adults and the younger adult people that they are working

Wendy:

with. I believe, and I venture to say that Elie probably believes the same thing, that

Wendy:

there are more similarities between the generations than we recognize.

Wendy:

The problem is that we rarely speak to people from different generations and through

Wendy:

sages and seekers, they build conversations and and opportunities for the older adults

Wendy:

and the younger adults to come together in conversation.

Wendy:

Before I introduce her to you, I just want to tell you about two things.

Wendy:

One is about my good friend Christine Baumgartner, and this is for any of my single

Wendy:

listeners who may be frustrated with online dating, meeting the wrong people, or just

Wendy:

frustrated with dating in general.

Wendy:

So Christine is a dating coach and a fellow podcaster for a show called Let's Talk

Wendy:

Dating. She has helped me come to terms with my dating life and how I'm looking for

Wendy:

somebody. Do I want to find somebody?

Wendy:

All of those questions.

Wendy:

And I would recommend her to any of you that are struggling in those areas.

Wendy:

You can check her out.

Wendy:

Her website is the perfect catch dot com.

Elly:

Don't you.

Wendy:

Love that? The other thing I wanted to talk to you about is the coaching that I do.

Wendy:

So let me encourage you to check out the coaching on the Hey boomer dot biz slash

Wendy:

coaching page.

Wendy:

It's a six week program and also the the vitality assessment that you can get from the

Wendy:

Hey Boomer Dot Biz homepage.

Wendy:

So let me encourage you to do those two things.

Wendy:

In fact, you can check them out now while you are listening to us.

Wendy:

And oh my goodness, we have so many wonderful visitors so far.

Wendy:

All right. I am going to bring on my new exciting guest.

Wendy:

I'm very excited to introduce you to Ella Katz.

Wendy:

I'm just so excited to have you on because I've been looking into sages and seekers.

Wendy:

I know some people that are part of it and I can't wait to share your story with

Wendy:

everybody. So I'd like to start with like what inspires you?

Wendy:

It's like 13 years since you started this, right?

Elly:

Yes. Yeah.

Wendy:

So how what inspired you?

Wendy:

How did you get started in this?

Elly:

Well, it's it's actually a very interesting story.

Elly:

I was driving my 16 year old to school listening to NPR, and I heard this

Elly:

gentleman speaking about the state of the planet, and he used the word apocalypse.

Elly:

And I thought, wait, wait, wait, I have a 16 year old.

Elly:

We can't be at an Apocalypse now with with the world.

Elly:

And then, you know, I was white knuckling the steering wheel, you know, what can I do?

Elly:

And he had what I guess you would call a call to action.

Elly:

He said that he felt if everyone on the planet chose something that they were

Elly:

passionate about and did something in that arena that we could turn the world around.

Elly:

And so I remember thinking I was a graphic designer at the time, and that's what I

Elly:

studied in school and had done all my life.

Elly:

And so I thought I.

Elly:

Well, I hope other people are listening because I don't really have the time for

Elly:

this. And then as I dropped my son off and I drove home, I started to think, well, you

Elly:

know, he said, What are you passionate about?

Elly:

And I loved ever since I was young, I loved talking to older adults.

Elly:

I felt they were underutilized and disrespected.

Elly:

And it just always was upsetting to me because I thought they were fantastic human

Elly:

beings. So I'm driving and I get home and I thought to myself, Yeah, I could do something

Elly:

with older adults.

Elly:

And so I went into my office, I sat down, I thought about what do older adults want?

Elly:

And I thought, well, they don't want to be 16 again because I don't want to be 16 again.

Elly:

Right. But that energy, that youthful vitality that young people bring into a room

Elly:

is just so life affirming and engaging.

Elly:

And so I thought maybe I could do something with older adults and teens and I knew

Elly:

nothing about education.

Elly:

I'm not a gerontologist, didn't know much about older adults.

Elly:

And so I just decided I'm going to go to some schools, see if I can get some kids

Elly:

interested in meeting older adults, and I'm going to go to some senior centers and see

Elly:

what they say.

Elly:

And I finally found some in the same town that would match and that said, yes, let's do

Elly:

it. And I'm not kidding you, Wendy.

Elly:

It was amazing, the very first meeting.

Elly:

I mean, I said to myself, I don't care if the kids don't like it, they're going to sit

Elly:

there and do a mitzvah because, you know, they need to show respect and and appreciate

Elly:

this other generation mitzvah.

Wendy:

Would you describe that for us?

Wendy:

People who don't know, Och.

Elly:

Mitzvah is a good deed.

Wendy:

A good deed.

Elly:

So I think it's Yiddish.

Wendy:

It is.

Elly:

Yeah. And so I just thought, you know, that they should do something wonderful.

Elly:

But what was fascinating to me is that they were enjoying themselves.

Elly:

These 17 and 16 year olds were laughing and asking questions.

Elly:

And my husband was doing documentary filming at the time, and I called him and I said, You

Elly:

have to bring your camera down to the senior center, because this is this is weird.

Elly:

These kids really like it.

Elly:

And so from that moment on, I was hooked to, you know, to continue to bring generations

Elly:

together. And now, of course, we're in our 13th year.

Wendy:

And wow.

Elly:

It is fascinating and wonderful every single time.

Wendy:

Wow, wow, wow.

Wendy:

So so this man on NPR telling this story inspired you and you know how many of us hear

Wendy:

things like that and go, yeah, that would be good, but you did it.

Wendy:

I mean, what kind of fears did you face when you said, Well, I'm going to do this?

Elly:

That's a great question.

Elly:

You know, Wendy, I'm a pretty fearful person.

Elly:

I have a lot of, you know, moments of anxiety and fear.

Elly:

But I.

Elly:

Think. I really felt like it was something that needed to happen.

Elly:

And so I had more determination than I did fear.

Elly:

You know, it became sort of like when you go fishing and you throw out the line and you

Elly:

want to see what you get back.

Elly:

I just. Called, you know, as many people as I could.

Elly:

And what was fascinating to me, I was very lucky because when I started Sages, the

Elly:

Seekers, I lived in Boston and and the schools there are very.

Elly:

Competitive and they're very good.

Elly:

And I couldn't get into public schools at the start.

Elly:

So I went to the best private school and I was very lucky they signed on.

Elly:

We're doing an after school program.

Elly:

And so I thought, I'm going to go to another private school and I'm going to tell them

Elly:

what we do. And I'm going to say, Look, this school is doing it after school.

Elly:

Why don't you put it into your English department and they put it into the English

Elly:

department. Then I went to another private school and said, you know, these guys that

Elly:

they're really interested in this social emotional learning program and, you know,

Elly:

maybe you could put it in your history department.

Elly:

And so that's the way I sort of made my way through the school system to build up a

Elly:

reputation. It was exciting, way more exciting than graphic design, I'll just say

Elly:

that.

Wendy:

And then the senior center supported you, too, so you used the word social emotional

Wendy:

learning. Now, I. I would guess you didn't even know what that meant when you started.

Wendy:

You're right. There's been a huge learning curve for you.

Wendy:

So. So what do the kids and the adults get out of this program?

Elly:

Great question. Well, you know, I really appreciate that you asked me did I know what

Elly:

that meant And and I didn't.

Elly:

And that was also a wonderful piece is that I was learning so much about.

Elly:

The education system, you know, and what was important and what was being left out.

Elly:

And there is I mean, and especially now that 13 years ago the smartphone did not have the

Elly:

grip that it has now.

Elly:

Right. And so now empathy I mean, Obama did a speech at Dartmouth, I think, before I

Elly:

started Sages and Seekers and he before he was president.

Elly:

And he said that he felt the empathy deficit in the United States was worse than the

Elly:

fiscal deficit.

Elly:

And I started to do some research and I found out that since 2010 there has

Elly:

been huge decline in empathy for college students.

Elly:

And can you imagine now with the smartphone where they can avoid emotions and I've talked

Elly:

to students now and they say, oh, well, we break up.

Elly:

On a text message because we don't want to feel the emotions of the other person.

Elly:

Let me start with the the value for the older adults enrolling and participating in

Elly:

eight weeks. The way we have designed our program allows an older adult to do two

Elly:

things that they don't have the opportunity necessarily to do.

Elly:

One is to have a life review, which Robert Butler, who's a psychologist who's no longer

Elly:

with us. He said that he felt every older adult should do a life review before they

Elly:

pass. And I didn't really understand it.

Elly:

I thought, oh, yeah, okay, whatever.

Elly:

But when I watched what happened to some of the seniors, you know, the sages, I

Elly:

totally understood that they were coming up to me afterwards and saying, I had an

Elly:

epiphany. You know, I thought I used to, you know, hate this.

Elly:

And I looked at high school in a negative way.

Elly:

And now, you know, their perspective is different.

Elly:

They're not in that moment.

Elly:

And so when you look at something from a different time, you are able to understand

Elly:

the value and not just the, you know, the pain of it.

Elly:

And and my favorite was I had a woman who stopped me.

Elly:

She was leaving on her walker and she said, Ellie, I had an epiphany.

Elly:

And I said, Scoot over, Peggy, I need to hear this.

Elly:

And she said, All my life I thought my father hated me until I told my student the

Elly:

story of growing up in Germany during the war.

Elly:

And I realized that my father had to put food on the table for five people, and that's

Elly:

why he never paid any attention to me.

Elly:

And he was a composer.

Elly:

And so she understood something.

Elly:

And she was, I would say, mildly depressed.

Elly:

And she never came in and did this after that, You know, every week she would come in

Elly:

like that. But following that, she was really quite, I think, freed.

Elly:

And so I saw that happen for many, many sages and also the ability to do general

Elly:

tivity, which is to hand your hard earned lessons to another generation is really quite

Elly:

important. And so the the sages are able to do that and it gives them value and also

Elly:

relevance because they're sharing information with someone who's a teenager.

Elly:

So they're learning and they feel more relevant for the teens.

Elly:

I'll tell you, it's very different since COVID, before COVID, you know, it it is an

Elly:

incredible tool for developing empathy.

Elly:

I don't know if you know this, but you cannot teach empathy.

Elly:

It's something that has to be developed or, you know, like experienced.

Elly:

And so that's what happens when they sit with an older adult.

Elly:

And so I thought, well, you know, that's that's great.

Elly:

This is social emotional learning and and this big value that they're getting.

Elly:

But what.

Elly:

I learned during COVID when the students would enroll program after program, they

Elly:

would finish one, and then the next one that started two weeks later, they enrolled again.

Elly:

Oh, yeah.

Elly:

And I truly understood and I think you even talked about conversation as to quote you,

Elly:

conversation is a path to building empathy between individuals.

Elly:

And I think the conversation, the fact that they could actually because we were on Zoom

Elly:

at that time, that they could look into someone's eyes and someone was listening to

Elly:

them, someone was hearing them, someone was agreeing with their pain and their suffering.

Elly:

And that was a whole new piece that I recognized before that in person in the

Elly:

in-person program was it's, you know, it's always evident that the kids are able to

Elly:

learn that you can live through failure.

Elly:

And, you know, because we have sages that are, you know, 70 to 80, they may have failed

Elly:

into businesses and.

Wendy:

That.

Elly:

The amount of wisdom that they share is phenomenal.

Elly:

So it's what I like to say is sages and seekers is not a mentoring program.

Elly:

Nobody has power over the other person.

Elly:

They come in with equal information to share and in sharing they each grow and they begin

Elly:

to shatter the stereotypes of ageism both ways.

Elly:

The systems come in or say to me, Why would I sign up for that when my own grandkids

Elly:

don't want to talk to me?

Elly:

It's it's amazing to sit with somebody from another generation And some of the stories

Elly:

that, you know, each of them tell are just wonderful, fabulous, moving, funny,

Elly:

everything.

Wendy:

Yeah, I bet.

Wendy:

So. So you mentioned the life review and all.

Wendy:

Is that part of the eight week training that you do or the eight?

Wendy:

I mean, how does that work?

Elly:

Well, when people enroll in sages and seekers, the only orientation or onboarding

Elly:

that we give them is just the rules.

Elly:

You know, like you, you can talk about anything you want if both of you are in

Elly:

agreement. And so I think the best way to describe it is during the eight weeks we have

Elly:

a curriculum, but it's very loose.

Elly:

What we're doing is talking about what it is to be human.

Elly:

The sages share their stories.

Elly:

Some of them, you know, are funny, some of them are very moving.

Elly:

And so the students are learning, you know, they're they're learning how to open up as

Elly:

well. And I think that really, you know, we don't say, well, this week we're going to

Elly:

talk about social media or this week we're going to talk about, you know, how difficult

Elly:

it is to be to not be seen when you're older.

Elly:

We don't do that.

Elly:

And we really just allow them to come together and talk about what's on their mind.

Elly:

And an example is when we were in Boston and the week after the.

Elly:

The marathon bombing.

Elly:

That's what the kids wanted to talk about and that's what the older adults wanted to

Elly:

talk about. And so they talked about and I'm sure all sorts of issues come up.

Elly:

You know, you talk about your fears, you talk about public places, you talk about the,

Elly:

you know, the mental health, all sorts of things come up.

Elly:

And that, I think, is what makes sages and seekers so powerful is that it's allowing

Elly:

people to address what is important to them or what is scaring them.

Elly:

A lot of kids talk about, you know, the the pressure of getting into the right college.

Elly:

And, you know, I don't want to disappoint my parents and and all of those things.

Elly:

And so here you have someone who's 80 and can say to them, you you need to choose to do

Elly:

something that you enjoy, not that you think you should do.

Elly:

It's just an incredible melding of resources, actually.

Wendy:

So, you know, I'm a little trepidatious hearing that.

Wendy:

It seems so uncontrolled.

Wendy:

Right? It's just happens as it happens.

Wendy:

So like, I think as a sage, I might be nervous.

Wendy:

Like, what if we sit there across from each other on Zoom?

Wendy:

And what do you want to talk about?

Wendy:

I don't know. What do you want to talk about?

Wendy:

And you both kind of sit there.

Wendy:

How does that work?

Wendy:

And it is it's is it a group or is it one on one?

Elly:

Great question.

Elly:

So in person we have between eight and 15 sages and eight and 15 seekers and it is one

Elly:

on one. But we are together.

Elly:

This is, I think the beauty of sages and seekers is that part of it at the beginning

Elly:

of each one is we're together as a group and in that group we bring up questions

Elly:

and topics and there are always, you know, like I might say, you know, let's spend one

Elly:

minute talking to, you know, a sage and a seeker talking about would you support a

Elly:

clothing company that.

Elly:

Made their clothing in a sweat shop.

Elly:

And it was fascinating to me because I had a sage, a 96 year old woman who raised her hand

Elly:

and she said, I wouldn't.

Elly:

I stopped buying Hershey chocolate when I heard there was some issue going on.

Elly:

And then, you know, the kids were saying, well, you know, this fast clothing stuff.

Elly:

And so all sorts of things come up.

Elly:

But the basis of it is that human connection and how we treat each other and what makes us

Elly:

human and what makes us tick and what makes you sad or what makes you happy.

Elly:

But there's guidance.

Elly:

There's guidance.

Elly:

And then after we meet.

Elly:

Together for 15 minutes.

Elly:

Then you are broken off in pairs and the students actually choose who they want to

Elly:

work with. So somebody might.

Elly:

If you were to enroll during the speed dating process the second week, you would

Elly:

tell them what you do with Hey Boomer.

Elly:

And they would say, I really I want to do a podcast.

Elly:

So they might choose you because of that.

Elly:

They might choose you because you remind them of their favorite aunt.

Wendy:

So okay, so on online now because of COVID, you had to go online.

Wendy:

So now you're international, I understand, right?

Wendy:

Yes. Yeah. So online now, do you also have that group experience and the speed dating to

Wendy:

get to know each other?

Elly:

Yes, it's the same program and that's why we keep it small online.

Elly:

It's only eight and eight because if the screen is filled with, you know, all these

Elly:

tons of people, it's not intimate.

Elly:

And the point is to really get to know someone else.

Elly:

So we do the first getting helping to break down the stereotypes and then they speed date

Elly:

and then they're paired with somebody.

Elly:

So what we do is the first part is all in a group.

Elly:

You see everyone on the screen and then they go into breakout rooms with the person that

Elly:

they've chosen to talk to, and we give them a topic if they are desperate so you don't

Elly:

have to worry. You could do it and you all have.

Wendy:

Plenty to talk about.

Wendy:

Yeah, I just know teenagers can be like, Whoa, I have nothing.

Wendy:

So yeah, but, you know, there you go.

Wendy:

There's a bias of mine that I need to overcome, right?

Elly:

Yeah. That's so great.

Elly:

You could see that.

Elly:

Yes, I do.

Elly:

I have to tell you, it's because I love this story.

Elly:

I asked my neighbors.

Elly:

There are couple to please go to the Larchmont Charter School because it was sort

Elly:

of nearby and I needed two more sages.

Elly:

And so the the gentleman said, well, he he's he was in the film industry forever.

Elly:

And, you know, the film industry is pretty hot right now with saying you can't say

Elly:

certain things, you can't do certain things.

Elly:

And so he didn't tell me this, but he was a little bit nervous at the end.

Elly:

He said to me, I just want you to know, I was really nervous.

Elly:

I didn't want to get a female speaker and I didn't want to have to talk about sex.

Elly:

And so apparently she came in one week and he said, How was your weekend?

Elly:

And she said, I had a fight with my mother.

Elly:

And he said, Really?

Elly:

Well, what was that about?

Elly:

That was his problem. He never should have asked.

Elly:

But. Right. She said, you know, my mother says I'm not old enough to sleep with my

Elly:

boyfriend. And so they had a really wonderful, meaningful conversation about

Elly:

that. But Jim never told me until afterwards.

Elly:

He said my two worst fears came true and lived through it.

Elly:

And he's actually starting this same the program at the same school on Wednesday.

Elly:

So it couldn't have been that bad.

Wendy:

That's fantastic.

Wendy:

That's fantastic. Now, there was some research that you had conducted to see about

Wendy:

the pros and cons and what people are learning and getting from this.

Wendy:

And and I imagine you had to do that for some grant money.

Wendy:

But what tell us what what you found out through the research.

Elly:

Well, I reached out to Mary Helen IMMORDINO Yang.

Elly:

So if anyone is in the education field, they will know her.

Elly:

She is in education, but she's also a brain scientist.

Elly:

And so she was.

Elly:

Fascinated by sages and seekers because of the storytelling aspect.

Elly:

And she said, I'd really like to study this to get more information.

Elly:

And so her premise and of course it's true and she's famous now, is that unless

Elly:

emotions are involved, you really cannot learn something.

Elly:

So in other words, when people are lecturing or just trying to teach something, it's very

Elly:

difficult for many people to learn.

Elly:

And she said she noticed when she taught in Dorchester, in the Boston area that the kids

Elly:

would come in and they would put their heads down on their desk every day and not look up.

Elly:

And she said one day she came in and she started to tell them a story.

Elly:

And she said, first the heads came up and then the hands went up.

Elly:

And so she went back to Harvard to study the brain.

Elly:

And what she found out was that when you hear a story, it lights up parts of the brain

Elly:

all the way into the brain stem that do not get lit up in normal learning.

Elly:

Hmm. Yeah.

Elly:

So so she did, in fact, study us.

Elly:

And the surprising thing for me, I anticipated empathy being the big, you know,

Elly:

the big deal.

Elly:

And she said the number one outcome was a greater sense of purpose for not only

Elly:

the students, but that's a big deal because we have so many students that are

Elly:

contemplating or attempting suicide and huge anxiety.

Elly:

But if you have a purpose that.

Elly:

You know, diminishes all the all the anxiety and things because you're focused.

Elly:

And the the next piece was empathy.

Elly:

And the third piece, which was really interesting, is a greater interest in civic

Elly:

engagement. And I think that speaks a lot for older adults because if we I mean, we

Elly:

must have really great stories and be fun to be with if we're inspiring young people to go

Elly:

out there and be with other people.

Elly:

And I think, you know, the way the smartphone is in technology is that there's a

Elly:

whole other movement.

Elly:

You know, I want to work from home.

Elly:

I don't want to engage.

Elly:

And so this to me is huge.

Wendy:

That, yeah.

Elly:

That that we as boomers and beyond can young people to want to be out there to want to see

Elly:

more than they can see on TikTok and Instagram and things like.

Wendy:

That. I think the purpose then also is a strong motivator for the sages, right?

Wendy:

Their sense of purpose too.

Wendy:

Yeah, it must.

Elly:

Yes, exactly.

Elly:

And also this really got me.

Elly:

They were given a cognitive test at the start and then at the finish.

Elly:

And in eight weeks their cognitive abilities went up.

Wendy:

Which is that right?

Elly:

Yes. Wow.

Elly:

Yes. So.

Wendy:

So you sign up?

Elly:

Yes. We want everybody because we have so many students that need they need someone to

Elly:

to talk with.

Elly:

Harvard did a study that said that 92% of students felt there was no one they could

Elly:

confide in in their schools.

Wendy:

That's really sad.

Wendy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elly:

And so, you know, the.

Elly:

What I've heard is that even therapists are very hard to find right now for adults and

Elly:

students. I mean, we're not therapists as older adults, but we've seen a lot.

Elly:

And I think it's very grounding to hear, you know, the stories of successes and failures

Elly:

and, you know, picking yourself up and and all of these things are just so incredibly

Elly:

important.

Wendy:

So if I wanted to do this and I do so I would just go to your website to sign up.

Wendy:

Or how does that work to you?

Wendy:

Like, do you do a background check on people or how does this work?

Elly:

Okay, so you do enroll on the website and.

Wendy:

Which is pages and seeker's spelled out dot org.

Elly:

Yes. And you can choose if you're interested in the in-person programs.

Elly:

If you live in LA.

Elly:

We have some there are some in Boston, there's some all over the country.

Elly:

But we don't you know, we don't keep track of when they do the program.

Elly:

But we can help you out if you're in these two areas.

Elly:

And but online, it's so easy, you know, you don't even have to leave your home.

Elly:

You can enroll online.

Elly:

You pick which day, which time.

Elly:

We have four days a week, Monday through Thursday.

Elly:

I think right now we even have Friday programs and then you choose the time that

Elly:

you want, you enroll.

Elly:

We only do background checks on in-person programs and you don't have to go get

Elly:

fingerprinted. It's all done.

Elly:

We send you what you need to fill out and then that's done.

Elly:

So it's pretty effortless except for showing up.

Elly:

It's very important if you enroll in a program that you attend all eight weeks

Elly:

because because it's one on one, you're leaving someone alone.

Elly:

You're leaving someone.

Elly:

Without someone to speak with.

Elly:

So they show up and then and it works both ways.

Elly:

Then the person who shows up and you don't show up, they're diminished.

Elly:

You know.

Wendy:

I guess that has happened before.

Elly:

It has happened. It has happened.

Elly:

And and sometimes, you know, it's very valid.

Elly:

But sometimes.

Elly:

Oh, I forgot.

Elly:

And that's you know, we remind, though, we call we remind we do everything we can do to

Elly:

make it work.

Wendy:

Well, there's a couple of people listening that have participated or are participating.

Wendy:

So I would love to hear.

Wendy:

Let's see, Deb says 8 minutes for the first chat with a new person each week and 40

Wendy:

minutes for the in depth with the Seeker I am matched with for seven weeks.

Wendy:

That's been her experience.

Wendy:

So I guess the 8 minutes for the first first chat is the online dating kind of thing.

Elly:

Well, the first week, the first week it's all the speed dating, but each week.

Elly:

Thank you, Deb, for bringing that up because I feel if you if we're really going to impact

Elly:

ageism, then what we've got to do is let them see not just one older person is

Elly:

interesting, but all of them are interesting.

Elly:

So that's the eight minute every week you get to sit with someone in the group for 8

Elly:

minutes so that you can get to know other people.

Elly:

And it's it's really we added that because we could see there were so many people who

Elly:

were not paired that were fascinated by each other.

Wendy:

And do you ever come together back together as a group like at the end and Debrief or

Wendy:

anything we do?

Elly:

The last week is a debriefing, but the seventh week, the week before the final one

Elly:

is tribute week and the students are asked to write a tribute to their sage.

Elly:

And we ask them, Please don't write their history.

Elly:

They know when their husband went to war, they know how many kids they had.

Elly:

They know where they went to school and what they do all day long.

Elly:

What we want to hear is how were you impacted?

Elly:

How did they change how you are going to move forward in the world?

Elly:

And that if if this is Deb's first time, just wait for that, Deb, you're going to love

Elly:

them. It's really you know, many times there's tears and tears.

Elly:

You know, it's it's great.

Elly:

It's it's great to be acknowledged for who you are and what you bring to the table.

Elly:

And so that's what we're asking students to do.

Elly:

And it's a great lesson for them.

Elly:

I mean, we've had kids use their tribute as their college essay even.

Wendy:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Wendy:

What a great idea.

Wendy:

Yeah, yeah.

Wendy:

Oh, we have another Deb who has signed up and she goes, I can't wait to get started.

Wendy:

And Martha says she thinks, you know, and I, I agree.

Wendy:

This is probably true that it's easier to talk to someone other than your own

Wendy:

grandparent. Sometimes, you know, we feel the judgment or we feel the concern, or maybe

Wendy:

it's going to get back to mom or dad or whatever.

Wendy:

And so to have a non.

Wendy:

Relative who is older and also a sage to speak with, I think probably very valuable.

Elly:

Yeah, well, that's a great point.

Elly:

And I think the other thing, Wendy, that I usually tell people when they say, well, why

Elly:

would I sign up when my own grandkids won't talk to me is when you talk to your own

Elly:

grandkids, you are invested in their future.

Elly:

You're coming at them.

Elly:

With questions like, Are you studying?

Elly:

Did you apply for college?

Elly:

Where are you going to go? What are you thinking about?

Elly:

Who are you hanging out with?

Elly:

Are you doing drugs?

Elly:

How many hours are you on your phone?

Elly:

I've read about that.

Elly:

And and so we the fascinating thing to me is a lot of sages who have done the program have

Elly:

told me that it has improved their relationship with their grandkids because

Elly:

they ask deeper questions.

Elly:

They want to know more about them.

Elly:

And same with the kids.

Elly:

One at the very beginning, I had a student during the debriefing and he stood up and he

Elly:

said, I wish I could talk like this to my own family.

Wendy:

Yeah.

Elly:

And now, you know, you know, I don't know why we don't think we can talk about, you know,

Elly:

really important things and and things that are on our mind.

Wendy:

And I think, like you said, we're so invested that it makes it less safe sometimes to talk

Wendy:

to your parents or your grandparents.

Wendy:

So let me ask you about a takeaway, Ellie, because unfortunately, we're getting close to

Wendy:

the end here. So what advice would you give to someone who might be inspired like you

Wendy:

were, but who is like, I'm just a graphic designer, How can I do something like this?

Elly:

I'm so glad that you asked that.

Elly:

I, I really think the idea of an encore career, like stepping up again and.

Elly:

Feeling the power that you have as an older adult with your years of experience and

Elly:

wisdom and finding something that you're passionate about.

Elly:

I think that's the key, is if you're passionate about it, you're not going to have

Elly:

the fear and the the defeat and all those things you really.

Elly:

Feel like you're on a mission and if it doesn't go anywhere, you've grown.

Elly:

So I say.

Elly:

It doesn't matter what your background is.

Elly:

Step up.

Elly:

Find something that is exciting to you.

Elly:

You can always call me.

Elly:

They can call me. I have a million ideas of what I want to do.

Elly:

You know, when I hand over sages and seekers to somebody else.

Wendy:

So here you go. She just invited you to call her.

Wendy:

I'm going to give you her email address.

Wendy:

You can reach her at E, Kat's k a Z at Sages and Seekers dot org and you spell it out

Wendy:

Sages A and D seekers dot org.

Wendy:

So you can reach Ellie that way.

Wendy:

You can check out her website at sages and Seekers dot org and I love some of the

Wendy:

pictures on there. Oh my gosh.

Wendy:

It makes me wish that there was some in person.

Wendy:

But I imagine as I'm looking at what Deb says, you know, the bonding happens in person

Wendy:

or not in person. It just happens by.

Wendy:

Fabulous. Thank you, Ellie.

Elly:

Wendy, I really appreciate it.

Elly:

It's always fun to talk about something you love.

Wendy:

So I know. Right?

Wendy:

And to find that passion.

Wendy:

I totally agree with you on that.

Wendy:

I mean, this has been my passion.

Wendy:

This, you know, Hey, Boomer, sharing stories like yours, coaching people who are looking

Wendy:

for how to live into their passion.

Wendy:

Great. I want to give a quick shout out to the Greeneville podcast Company for their

Wendy:

expert editing and production of the Hey Boomer podcast, which is available on all of

Wendy:

the podcast apps.

Wendy:

Also, I wanted to invite you to download the Vitality Assessment from Hey Boomer Dot Biz,

Wendy:

and then if you find that you are a little diminished in your vitality and you want to

Wendy:

get excited and pumped up and move forward, then let's talk on the Hey Boomer slash

Wendy:

coaching website.

Wendy:

You can schedule a complimentary 20 minute session, which generally long goes about 30

Wendy:

minutes. And it's it's a lot of fun.

Wendy:

You'll get some insights from that as well.

Wendy:

And who is coming up next week?

Wendy:

Next week it's another Wendy, I know we're going to have trouble figuring out who's

Wendy:

talking. Her name is Wendy Battles, and she is the host of a podcast called Reinvention

Wendy:

Rebels. But that's her part time job.

Wendy:

She also works at Yale University as their cybersecurity awareness expert.

Wendy:

You imagine? I know.

Wendy:

But the Reinvention Rebels is all about women over 55 who have like you, Ellie, and

Wendy:

like I, you know, like, found their next passion, found their next thing that that

Wendy:

they are just so excited about doing.

Wendy:

So she has so much energy.

Wendy:

I just can't even compete.

Wendy:

But I always like to leave you with the belief that you can live with passion, you

Wendy:

can live with relevance, and you can live with courage and remember that you are never

Wendy:

too old to set another goal or dream a new dream.

Wendy:

My name is Wendy Green and this is been.