Is 2018's Upgrade a rebirth of 80's sci-fi favorites in the vein of Total Recall? This episode of the Movie Wars Podcast dives deep into the film "Upgrade," highlighting its innovative approach to the sci-fi genre, particularly in how it explores the intersection of technology and humanity. The hosts discuss the significance of the film's unique visual style and action sequences, emphasizing the director Leigh Whannell's ability to create a compelling narrative within a low-budget framework. They analyze the character dynamics, particularly the relationship between the protagonist Gray and the AI Stem, noting how the twist reveals Stem as the true antagonist, which adds depth to the story. Throughout the discussion, they reflect on the broader implications of the film's themes, drawing parallels to societal issues surrounding technology today. The conversation culminates in a passionate exchange about the potential for future films to revive the action sci-fi genre, with a hopeful outlook on what directors like Whannell can achieve.

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Movie Wars Podcast dives into the thrilling world of the film "Upgrade," directed by Leigh Whannell. The hosts, Kyle, Seth, and Drew, unpack the intricate layers of this action-packed sci-fi film, which tells the story of Grey Trace, a man who becomes a quadriplegic after a brutal mugging that also claims his wife's life. The narrative takes a twist when Grey receives an experimental computer chip implant, enabling him to regain his mobility and seek vengeance against those who wronged him. Throughout the discussion, the hosts highlight the film's unique blend of practical effects and innovative cinematography, particularly praising the use of a locking camera technique that immerses viewers in Grey's journey of transformation and autonomy. They explore the themes of technology's impact on humanity, ethical dilemmas surrounding AI, and the film's nods to classic 80s action and sci-fi tropes.

The conversation delves into the production challenges faced by Whannell, particularly the film's microbudget of under $5 million, and how that constraint led to creative solutions that enhanced the film's aesthetic and storytelling. The hosts reflect on the cultural commentary embedded in the film, which resonates with contemporary issues of technology dependence and the blurred lines between man and machine. They also draw parallels between "Upgrade" and iconic films like "RoboCop" and "Terminator," discussing how Whannell revives the genre while offering a fresh perspective on familiar narratives. As they share personal insights and reactions, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the film's craftsmanship and thematic depth.

In this lively episode of Movie Wars, listeners are treated to an engaging discourse that not only celebrates the film "Upgrade" but also critiques the broader landscape of sci-fi cinema. The hosts emphasize the importance of well-crafted characters and dialogue, acknowledging that while the film excels visually and thematically, certain narrative elements could have benefited from further development. Ultimately, the conversation encapsulates a love for the genre and a desire for future filmmakers to draw inspiration from the innovative storytelling showcased in "Upgrade." The episode concludes with the hosts expressing their hopes for the future of sci-fi films, leaving listeners excited about the potential for more groundbreaking narratives that challenge the status quo.

Takeaways:

• The film Upgrade effectively blends science fiction with action, showcasing an intriguing near-future setting.
• The director, Leigh Whannell, utilized innovative camera techniques to enhance the fight scenes significantly.
• The film's commentary on technology and humanity resonates with contemporary societal issues, making it relevant.
• Seth, Drew, and Kyle discussed the film's budget constraints and how they led to creativity.
• The podcast highlighted the importance of practical effects in filmmaking, noting their impact on realism.
• Listeners appreciated the character dynamics, particularly the relationship between Gray and Stem, which added depth.

Movie Wars.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie Wars Podcast.

What's going on, fellas?

What's up?

What's up, Kyle here?

I'm Seth.

And I'm Drew.

This is a weird day for me.

It's weird because a.

Someone wanted to do more work on the podcast, which is crazy.

So, you know it wasn't me.

Yeah, it wasn't true right away.

So what's cool is Seth and Drew and I have a.

Like, a movie file, and it's like, all the movies want to cover.

It was funny.

Like.

Like we're the only ones who've contributed to this.

You have a column on there.

Yeah, I know.

Maybe I'll get to it.

Just throw some in there.

Yeah.

If you ever decide to toss a movie on there, we've covered a lot of them.

And I was surprised because I opened it the next morning, and Seth had added, like, 100 movies.

Like, that's what I'm talking about.

And then you texted me and said, I really want to cover Upgrade.

And you're like, if we.

And we decided to do it, like, you're like, don't do any research.

And I was like, so I may look like I don't know what to do with my hands during this podcast, but once you take it away, man, we're doing Upgrade.

Yeah.

When it came out.

It tied for first place for me with Bo Burnham's eighth grade.

So two grade movies.

Yeah, those are different movies, but, my God, they both impressed me in such different ways.

We're gonna go in the background of Upgrade for a second.

It was written and directed by Leigh Whannell, an Australian writer director.

You might know him.

He wrote the first three Saw movies and played Adam in the first Saw movies.

The guy in the room with Christian or with Cary Elwes.

He also wrote the Insidious franchise and directed Insidious 3.

That was his directorial debut.

But he's also acted in everything from the Matrix Reloaded to Aquaman as well.

So the dude has had his fingers in so many different aspects of the industry.

He had this idea, and this was even before Elon Musk had announced that he was going to be doing Neuralink.

But he had this idea of a man who'd been paralyzed and had some sort of chip reconnect his spine back together so he would be able to move again.

And that's where this whole situation was birthed from, was this idea that he had, like, I don't know, probably five Years before they even really got rolling with the movie, they shot the whole thing in Melbourne, Australia.

So every, every big wide shot you're seeing, even if there's stuff digitally added to it, that's all parts of Melbourne that they were shooting in.

He purposefully wanted to be set in a near and recognizable future.

Something that would be not too far, maybe 20, 30 years ahead of where we are now, but something that we would still be able to connect to.

Which I think, as you were talking about before we started the podcast, that it kind of has that 80s feel because you watch something like the Predator or like Terminator and it obviously is set in a modern time, but it's that sci fi that we can all still connect and relate to.

Almost like that transition from a non technological society to a society that's fixing to fully depend on it.

Like that middle ground.

Yeah.

And I feel like every movie like that is always like self driving cars.

That's what we need.

Which obviously is a part of this movie.

And I'll get.

Because there's something cool about the cars that I'll get to in a little bit.

Sweet.

But yeah, that to him, he was like, I didn't want this to look like Blade Runner.

I didn't want this to be in such a far distant future that we had no connection to it.

Because hearing about a guy getting a chip put in his neck to put his body back together wouldn't be so cool.

It wouldn't be a novel idea in that kind of world.

It would be pretty like.

No, that's a thing.

Like obviously.

So he thought this would be more remarkable set in that kind of world.

So they're going through production.

He was talking to a lot of different companies and ended up setting with Blumhouse, who did get out, and a lot of the Jordan Peele movies.

And he went with them because he loves what they're doing with horror specifically.

Even though I don't think anyone really considers this movie to be horror, they have a much more grounded look on filmmaking and producing.

So that's why he ended up going with him, as I'm sure we all recognize the stunts and the fight was.

It was a very important part of this movie.

And when he was talking to the stunt coordinator, he said he wanted him to throw everything he knew about stunt coordination and stunt choreography just out the window and start completely from scratch.

Because he wanted that robotic weird nature to those fights scenes.

He didn't want it to feel like anything that we were familiar with.

And apparently what he actually drew A lot of inspiration from old kung fu movies to kind of get the visual style of how the fight scenes were both going to be filmed and choreographed.

He mentioned Ong Kek and the Raid as two movies that he was incredibly inspired by.

And now movies that I need to go see.

I've never seen either of these movies before, so I really need to know.

But that's where the cinematography of.

Keeping the.

The action front and center.

If you notice, during the fight scenes, there's almost like there's.

There's.

The cuts are only there when they have to be.

As opposed to it taking seven shots for Liam Neeson to jump over a fence.

There's literally.

It's such long shots when it comes to how they shot the fight choreography in the film.

Basically, he didn't want you to ever get confused.

He didn't want you to ever lose what was going on in the fight.

One more thing about the director, he absolutely loved practical effects.

In fact, there's a lot more practical effects than you would think of in this movie.

Specifically when it came to the deaths.

The.

What he describes as the PEZ dispenser knife kill, which is one of my favorite kills in all of cinema history.

Like, that was just utterly brutal.

So brutal.

That was a prosthetic head.

Like, that was.

That was done practically.

I love that.

And they had two chances to get it right, otherwise they were fucked.

And it trumped the cgi.

When we talked about the crowd.

Yeah.

That one looks so dumb now compared to this one.

It was insane.

The other one, when he blew the guy's head off with the shotgun in his arm, that was also.

Wow.

Yeah.

And I.

I mean, when you see practical effects like that, you can see why people like him, like, prefer it.

I mean, there's just something practical, looks more realistic.

And when we're watching a movie, we're kind of wanting to be.

And we want it to be realistic.

We want it to be.

I mean, you get in some movies.

I mean, you know, you think about a superhero or a futuristic movies.

Yeah.

Some things you need cgi, sometimes you need special effects.

Absolutely.

And there's plenty in this movie.

But when you get those real.

I mean, it just.

It's.

Yeah, it's like a.

It's like a real steak versus a McRae.

It's impactful.

You just hear just like, this is.

This is.

That's what I came for.

It's really the whole crux of why Friday the 13th is good.

The story's not great.

Yeah, he's not great.

But the effects are so.

Tom Savini is so top notch.

That lasts 30 minutes is the only thing that saved that movie.

Yeah.

So, no, 100% agree.

Our lead actor was Logan Marshall Green.

He had done a couple of things, but was still a very.

And still today is a pretty relatively unknown actor.

He auditioned for the part, he found out about it and immediately contacted Lee and was like, I have to be in this movie.

I absolutely love the concept.

And so when they cast him, it was like a month between casting and when he showed up for rehearsals, he spent that entire month sending Lee videos of him learning how to do the walk where his face and head was doing something completely different from the rest of his body.

He approached all the fights as, like, a dance.

He really took the kind of the ballroom dancer or ballet dancer perspective as far as choreographing the fights because of the way a computer would have everything so particularly set as far as the movements he made.

Also, he did 95% of his own stunts in the movie.

Wow.

Like, literally, the main stunt coordinator said he kind of did nothing on set because he never had to step in and be the stunt guy.

I love that.

Yeah.

So what a.

Like, I hope he.

I mean, that guy still got paid to just kind of hang out.

What a good week.

Or.

That's another 80s thing, man.

I mean, Keanu and Sly, those guys loved doing their own stunts.

Oh, yeah.

Well, something I've also realized, so between the original Crow, American Psycho last week, and this movie, we're now talking about three movies we've watched where the lead actor was 150% into what was going on.

Yeah.

He was so sold on the idea that he was just like, whatever, you're going to pay me, you're going to pay me.

I'm just going to be there and I'm going to put all of myself into making sure this is the best thing it can be.

And that makes a difference in the movies.

You can see.

See when the lead star is really.

Yeah, yeah.

Gives a.

Or is working well with a director or is like, there's like.

Yeah.

And his biggest credit to date was Prometheus.

Right.

That was kind of the one where people would recognize him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That.

Yeah.

There was a couple others, but even.

Even in all of those, he was just kind of a background character.

Like, he had never been the full four, you know, brute force of a movie.

Like, he was in this.

This was a huge chance for him to really straight stretches, acting chops.

Yeah.

In the comment or in the behind the scenes, they talked to the producer, Kylie, do friends, and she said it was shot in six weeks and the budget was under $5 million.

Wow.

For comparison, the Crow Wicked Prayer was an 8 to $10 million budget.

That's hilarious.

This was made for half the amount of money that the Crow Wicked Prayer was made for.

And you can tell that movie was like, is anything gonna ever be as good?

Half of that was spent on Hopper's fur coat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Tara reads tits.

Yeah, yeah.

Worth it.

Worth it.

Oh my God.

Nice coat.

Yeah.

But yeah, literally it was just.

They knew that they were going to be able to have a North American opening because they were working with Blumhouse, so they knew they could get away with a lower budget for the higher return.

So yeah, just even it still just blows my mind.

$5 million is absolutely nothing.

That's not even considered a low budget film.

That is considered a micro budget film.

Yeah.

In today's industry.

So what they were able to achieve, especially with the practical effects just absolutely blew my mind.

That's wild.

Very cool.

Final little bits about the background of it.

So the stunt cinematographer's name is stunning.

Stefan Duccio.

He specifically wanted to lean into the non realism of the lighting.

Kind of lean into that idea of it is a slightly futuristic city.

So not everything is going to be as natural as it could be.

So you'll notice in scenes like when he's fighting the final henchmen, you have these like blue and green lights outside the windows.

And he really, because of things like that, wanted to lean into kind of that neon noir kind of weird, unnatural lighting.

He, they also.

This was one of my favorite just random film making tidbits.

They shot on antique anamorphic lenses from the 70s.

Wow.

Like they were built for 70s film cameras and they bought them used vintage because they wanted the kind of visual look of the film to be very ambiguous as to when it was made.

That's wild.

Okay.

So just as a filmmaker, it's little things like that that just blow my mind when.

When they figure out ways to bring old school tricks into a very new looking movie.

That's incredible.

Finally we have the fight choreographer, Chris.

Chris Weir.

He was presented with the script and he knew he had to use a fighting style that he'd never seen before.

And so he went with the idea that the computer would be so much more efficient with minimal movement.

So he combined multiple fighting styles to get where they ended up.

The entire movie was choreographed in a week and rehearsed for two weeks.

And he designed all the fights around the scale and the budget, and once again, everything was done practically.

Wow.

They did a lot.

A lot.

With minimal.

Yeah, yeah.

This is a true.

Yeah, this is a true example of everybody just coming together because the idea for the project was so, so cool, honestly, like, this is.

This is a world I've never really seen before in a sci fi film.

It was.

And I know the kind of plot structure of it is very borrowed.

It is technically just a revenge film at its, you know, most simple core.

But I think he did a lot to kind of play around with what the normal tropes of a revenge film would look like.

And I loved that.

I love that they went out of their way to make it futuristic, but not too futuristic, because that added to the storyline.

Like it's a conceivable plot for a future thing that could happen.

Yeah.

I mean, there's a lot of.

A lot of jumps to get there in technology, but, like, just in the days of where we have, you know, AI doing our graphic designing and all that stuff, it's like you could see, you know, with prosthetic limbs, it's like, well, I could see this actually being a thing, you know.

Absolutely.

And so.

And that.

That did make the plot kind of appealing because you were like, it's fiction, but it's.

And it's sci fi, but it's also a little real.

Little realistic, you know, well, ways that they did that.

Some of the technology in the movies actually exists in real life.

The arm that would, like, gave him.

Give him the drink and give him the medicine and everything that was actually donated to them from a Canadian research lab who had, or I guess a robotics company that made these arms.

And that's an actual, real thing that people with disabilities are using today.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

Very intentional melding of futuristic and current technology.

Wow.

Everything you said just made me really angry.

Not about this movie, but it makes me angry when you look at the budgets that some of these reboots and reboots are getting and some of these new movies and, like, the fact that they can accomplish that.

And we just covered American Cycle last week.

That was 6 million.

Like, yeah, like, what are they doing with these larger budgets?

You have bigger.

Yeah, bigger movies with this huge astronomical budgets.

And then you see what comes out of it, and you're like, where did you spend all that money?

Because it wasn't in the things that I'm looking at, you know, Exactly.

But I guess animation has gotten expensive.

Like, weirdly, sometimes it's cheaper to go the practical route.

But you're.

You're.

You're risking a lot more when you're going with practical effects.

But I also think it's something.

Something that's kind of cool about all that is because we were talking.

You were talking about how this is a movie of so many different people coming together and making a good product with not a ton of resources, but you have directors that care.

You have lead actors that are going to do the extra steps.

You have the smart people figuring out how we're going to make believable fight scenes with not a lot of, you know, money or prep time, you know, or shooting time.

It was shot in six weeks.

A month and a half is all it took for them to shoot this movie.

And that's kind of like a word and inspiration to creatives.

And like, your role, like that whole quote, like, money isn't everything.

Like, your role as a person on the project, you can do things that people can't pay for.

Yeah.

Now, some ways they were able to save on money.

They were actually able to build a lot of the same sets in one building.

They actually ended up using a shutdown school that was going to be torn down eventually.

And so they had free reign to turn any of those rooms into what they want.

So that bar that he goes to, the Bone room, that was a room inside of the school that they just sat there and redressed.

Wow.

That was the same building as that hallway when he's going into the hacker's apartment.

That.

The apartment and that hallway is also in the same school where he also ends up jumping down the stairs later on.

Like, all of that was filmed all in the same building.

Just because they had one building with a lot of rooms.

Yeah.

So they really took everything that they could, and they were like, how are we going to maximize this money that we're spending?

So they build eight sets in one building.

That's amazing.

Yeah, you got to do what you got to do on these small budgets, and it always makes a better product.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's.

That's.

Again, these are just a lot of the reasons why this was my number one movie, because there's.

Of that year because there are so many things that they had no money for that just went.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad you suggested it because it is.

I was trying to.

I think I texted you Guys, this.

I was trying to think about how this slid past my radar.

Yeah.

2018 was like, babies.

Yeah.

I only have one kid in diapers now.

But at the time, I had multiple.

I have four kids now.

You're like, I need one of those upgrades to take care of these babies.

It was a war zone.

But I.

I watched this and was immediately.

What I was taken back by was everyone knows that, like, my favorite genre is this, what I call pop sci fi.

But it's really this action horror sci fi, which includes Terminator, Predator, you know, a lot of the Sly, you know, movies, some of the Keanu stuff, like just that genre that was like, it wasn't.

So it wasn't inaccessible.

Yeah.

You know, which.

A lot of hardcore sci fi can be inaccessible to a majority of people.

So when you meld Action.

James Cameron stuff based on Philip K.

Dick, that's kind of my favorite.

It's my vein.

And this instantly took me there.

The visuals.

And like I said earlier, like, the thing that this movie does well in the time zone, that it's actually capturing where we are now.

It's kind of crazy.

The week I watched this, Tesla just announced the robo taxi.

Yeah.

The first vehicle that's not going to be produced with a steering wheel or pedals.

Yeah.

And then that car.

Yeah.

That's my dream car to never drive again.

I would love that.

But also, like, I kind of feel like Will Smith and iRobot, who's like, I don't trust all that technology.

Fun little tidbit.

The year this came out, I was actually hired to go film at a transit conference over at the Opry Mill or Opryland Hotel.

And one of those days, I got to spend six straight hours on a fully autonomous bus.

Wow.

Because we were filming interviews for people involved in the tech companies who created the bus.

So I literally, before anyone really even knew autonomous cars were a thing, I had spent an entire day just sitting watching this autonomous car hit every single point in the parking lot.

It was supposed to every single time.

And you survived.

We even.

We would have people walk out in front of it and it would just stop.

Did you see Upgrade before or after that?

Thank God.

After.

I was like, I would not.

If I just saw Upgrade the night before and they're, yeah, get on this autonomous boss.

I'd be like, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a few months later.

But yeah, yeah.

The thing that this really.

It was really resonant.

And I have a category for this later, but this idea of, like, the reason I loved, like, not only watching films based on Philip K.

Dick, you know, like Blade Runners based on, you know, do.

What does it do?

And.

Oh, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Is that what they call?

Yeah, I always mix up the title.

The Android.

Yeah.

It's a weird title.

That's exactly what.

Good job.

His titles were always really long.

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

And then.

Don't worry, they'll correct you in the comments.

Oh, yeah, the Deftones.

Deftones.

Total Recall was based on.

We'll.

We'll remember it for you wholesale, which is a short story.

And what he captured so well, and which is crazy to think that, like, when he wrote Minority Report, I think it was either in 58 or 62.

It was between 58 and 65.

Think about that.

Think about what he was predicting.

Yeah.

And his.

So much of his.

Of what he thinks about and wrote about was about this bridge between where humanity starts to veer into a completely technologically enabled society and the pain that would bring.

Yeah.

And this movie instantly tapped into that vein.

I would be very surprised if someone on set or someone making the film was not reading Philip K.

Dick or.

Or watching Total Recall or something, because it really.

I mean, just knowing the depth of Lee Whannell's writing, I'm.

I guarantee you he was at least inspired by things that were inspired by it if he wasn't directly inspired by them.

Yeah, I loved it.

It definitely transported me back there.

So I loved it for that reason.

So it was a lot of fun.

I'm glad you suggested it.

Somebody didn't like it that much.

Okay.

Somebody.

Somebody named who lives their life a quarter mile at a time.

I love it more when I don't have to use my catchphrase.

Okay, I will say I loved what you just shared.

And it makes me have a bigger appreciation for the movie that.

That part.

Like, when I watched it, a couple things.

One, like, going into it, people said, like.

And then I saw exactly what they meant.

They're like, oh, it's basically the storyline of Venom.

And that as soon as I got, like, within the first fight scene where he gives permission to take over, I was like, oh, I see what they're saying now.

Like.

And so, like, it.

What.

What was kind of entertaining to me was it was like the same plot line of Venom.

And the fact that this actor has a striking resemblance to Tom Hardy.

He looks so much like Tom Hardy.

Discount story.

Tom Hardy.

I felt like.

I felt like I was watching Kmart.

Venom is what I felt like.

I was like.

And it was.

And it was like, it was.

The overall.

The plot was, like, okay to me.

I didn't.

I didn't find myself particularly drawn to any of the characters.

I didn't.

I didn't find myself, like, just at the edge of my seat with the plot over, like, so, like, it was like, an okay movie.

I will say all of that did change at the very end.

Yeah.

Because what.

I like movies.

So, again, I don't.

I say this plenty of times in this podcast.

I'm not a guy that knows things.

I don't care.

I watch movies to enjoy.

I just.

Is.

Do I enjoy the storyline?

Why one of us actually enjoyed Wicked Prince.

Yeah.

Is it fun?

Yeah.

So, absolutely.

So, like, there's, you know, do you have a good time watching the movie?

And then if.

For the bad movies, And I'm just like, yeah, it was fun to watch or, like, if it's a good storyline.

So that's another factor for me for a good movie is, did it tell?

Like, you know, we just reviewed American Psycho.

That one makes you think.

Well, after watching the movie, to me, that makes it a good movie.

What made this a good movie?

To me, where I would categorize as, like, it was fine because I didn't love it the whole time.

But the.

What I would.

But I'd still say it's a good movie because the end ended in a way that we don't do that often, which is, for all practical purposes, the bad guy won.

Yeah.

There was, like, I had to think, once the movie ended, did I just see that?

Did I understand what just happened?

And I replayed it in my head a couple times.

Like, no, I did.

Yeah.

And that was highly interesting to me that they put.

I mean, like, it was so unsatisfying the way it ended, but in a good way.

In, like, a fun way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're pissed, but you're, like, excited that you're pissed because it's actually something unique that's happening.

Yeah.

And the shit's gonna go down.

Yeah.

It made you feel something like, I hate that that's how it ended.

But that was a good ending.

That is a way that storyline could have ended.

He also has no intention of making a sequel at the moment.

So I like that.

I don't think it needs a sequel.

I don't.

I don't need.

I don't think we need a more upgraded.

It would be cool to see more of that world, in my opinion, But I don't think we would need a direct sequel to find out what happened.

Maybe a prequel where it tells the story of what happened to either the main.

Kind of the main villain, like the younger guy who, like the Elon Musk type person, or the.

Even the other dude who, like, seemed to have some technological advances.

Yeah.

So the director talks quite a bit about that whole thing because he actually talked about how that.

That top henchman guy, he based the look of him on, like, your average militia kind of enthusiast in this country, like, dresses a little nice, but there's something a little off about him.

And he.

He said the reason he did that is because the group that he's with, which is a very multicultural group visually, they're all the racist ones because they all have technological upgrades.

They all have those guns in there in their arms.

He has the thing in his eye where he has X ray vision and he can zoom into things like that becomes the new social.

Racism is.

Oh, you don't have any implants.

You don't have any upgrades done.

Well, then you're a piece of shit.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that.

Definitely.

That would be very fascinating to kind of see that transition for some of those guys.

It'd be an interesting world to build a little bit.

I will say my favorite parts of the movie were the.

The ending.

I thought that was a shocking ending.

It was good.

And then the point kind of where he tortures the guy to, like, where he's.

With the knife.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, and.

And it's like where he gives.

But then he's like, we have to go, you know, you have to go find the hacker to get me out of this.

Yeah, like, that part was like an interesting part of the storyline.

Yeah, the rest of it.

The rest of it was a little bit rinse and repeat as far as those kind of movies.

Sure.

I will say that I think.

I think the thing that blew my mind and everybody's mind was that OG fight scene where he first gives himself over to Stan.

Yeah, that was a.

That was a good.

That was a good scene.

It really had Matrix vibes to me.

Which you said he was the director of or.

No, he was.

He was an actor in Matrix Resurrection.

Yeah, yeah.

But we will.

We'll get into the cool technical Aspects of that in the Randos.

But, yeah, that was when they premiered because it won the audience choice award at south by Southwest.

And all the reviews that came out after that were just praising that fight.

Have you been practicing saying rando?

Are you going to be ready?

We're not there yet.

I know we're not, but I have.

Did you look in the mirror?

Oh, yeah.

Did you get deep in your chest?

Did you look deep within?

Did you like deep within?

And then I practice the randos.

Yeah.

I love it.

I love it.

Speaking of rant, or speaking of upgrade, do your friends need an upgrade to their podcast listening experience?

Oh, oh, I know what you're saying to yourself.

I've got friends that they listen to the shittiest podcast on the planet.

They listen to the news, politics, they listen to all kinds of bad shit, but they don't listen to Movie Wars.

Your friend is lost.

Your friend is behind.

There is a social form of racism that we're going to talk about today, and that form is them not listening to Movie Wars.

You don't want your friend to be lesser.

You don't want them to be down on the totem pole.

You want them listening to Movie War.

So if you want to upgrade their life, upgrade their existence, make them more likable, more dates, more money, more everything, send them Movie Wars.

Don't be racist and watch three white guys review movies.

I'm Filipino, but I look very white.

Maybe upgrade yourself as a friend and recommend them Movie Wars.

I think that's a good friend.

Do a little self upgrading.

Yeah, yeah.

Find your truth, as they say at the kids, find.

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

I'm going to tell you your truth.

Which is nice, which is send your stupid friends Movie Wars.

All right.

Love you.

And the Deftones.

And the Deftones.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, check Instagram.

All right, the questions.

Here we go.

So let me get this straight.

Yeah.

Fisk again.

I like this movie a lot.

Yeah.

But something bothers me here.

Fisk is fully upgraded, right?

He's got the eye thing, the breath thing, the gun.

Sticking with the perv stache, though.

Yeah, fully upgraded.

Keeping the perv station.

Explain this to me.

We had to bring something from the 80s into a movie that was a tribute to the 80s.

It is true.

It is true.

If I'm going to brag on this for being a great Testament to the 80s, I can't criticize it.

That definitely was.

Just makes him look more menacing.

Well, yeah, it looked like Bennett from Commando.

Yeah, yeah, it definitely had that played in by the great Vernon Wells.

But it made you feel a little off, right?

It was a little off.

That's the point.

Yeah, that was, that was the whole like literally everything down to his hairstyle.

That was the design of the director.

He wanted him to look that way just to be a little off putting.

Yeah.

Or what if he just found the perfect actor who looked off pitting and instead of saying, that's why we want you, he's like, no, I see something in you.

I see something on you.

The mustache.

Really?

That's what I see on you.

I want that caterpillar that's on your face.

Yeah, yeah.

It's very.

It's a mustache that.

It's not a Hitler stache.

But it also hasn't covered enough ground necessarily.

I always get worried when it doesn't hit the corner of the lip.

And granted, this is all I can grow.

I haven't shaved in two weeks.

This is all I can.

I have.

I'm not like a sp.

I don't have a beard like you, but when it doesn't quite get here, I get a little weird, I get a little worried, a little weary.

It's not world dictatorship.

Yeah, yeah.

So you.

But you're saying with that, with that fact about the clothing, like, so that's why he's wearing a polo.

He's like wearing nice polo.

Why he's wearing a polo.

That's why he has the tactical vest or belt, I should say.

And the like, the specific like khaki slacks that he was wearing, like in the, in the combat boots.

Like, he, he's, he's like your ex military kind of guy.

He, he has the training, he knows how to be ready for situations, but he's also trying to blend into a normal crowd.

Or he's like the southern guy that's.

Has very strong opinions about gun control.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, come and take him.

Yeah.

Confiscate this.

It's in my arm.

Take my arm.

That actually leads to my next question.

All these upgrades.

And again, I know you love this movie.

I love this movie.

I don't want you to think I'm shitting on it.

The eye upgrade's awesome.

The breath thing, that's cool.

Yeah.

But do you feel like it's a little weird to put the gun in the arm?

It's like that we're not only sticking with an ancient technology, but we're going to stick the ancient technique.

Maybe that was the first version, though.

This is only 30 years away from now.

Yeah.

It's not supposed to be that far in the future where we have laser weapons.

Maybe that was the first thing they did, was we're going to put guns in.

We're going to start with some guns, and then we'll give you some.

Yeah.

Clearly taking some inspiration from Assassin's Creed.

Yes.

Like, clearly.

That's the.

I mean, that's a good way to hide it.

You get to keep it underneath your coat.

No one's going to see it.

You never look like you're packing, and then when you need to use it, you just cock it and you're ready to go.

Yeah.

Also, it's more menacing if you need to threaten someone but not kill them.

What are you going to do?

Show them your eye and your breath?

Are you going to pull out a gun from your arm?

Well, the breath did kill the guy.

I mean.

Yeah.

But, like, if I'm.

Before I kill you, if I want to threaten you, to give me information.

Yeah.

What am I gonna do?

Like, don't make me breathe on you.

Yeah.

Also, how terrifying would it be for a guy to grab you by the throat and then just stick his wrist in your face and that's when you see the barrel.

Yeah.

Do you think they get any powder burns or anything on the flesh around the gun?

Probably.

I'm really interested in the logistics of this arm gun.

Yeah.

I.

You know.

Yeah.

Lee1L.

If you watch this, let us know.

We'd love to interview you and ask you about the random facts about your little world you created.

Yeah.

And now, one thing I do appreciate, even though I'm kind of, like, making fun of it, I do like that they went full circle.

You reload the arm.

That was actually a cool touch.

So that.

That fun little tidbit about that, the way he did that was he had one shell and he did the magician trick of putting it out, and then when he looked like he was sliding in, he was really putting it back in his hand.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

It looked like he had four bullets in his hand, but no, it was just one that he kept using to reload.

I love the Lower the budget.

Yes.

Like I said, there's just.

For me, it was all the little things that made this movie so incredible.

Yeah.

And considering what you talked about, the budget and, like, the limited resources, like, they really.

Yeah.

They really knocked it out of the park.

Yeah.

Are you ready to say it?

Is it time?

Are you ready to say it?

Randall Randos, well done.

Well done, sir.

That was.

This is a big Moment.

Movie wars history.

Talk about a Movie wars upgrade, am I right?

That was mean.

So two weeks ago I went off on a little rant about opening credits in modern movies because I absolutely normally abhor them.

That was still the style of moviemaking and they made it interesting.

So yeah, it was fine with me.

So it might have been same last year.

The only movie where the opening credits are spoken and not shown on screen in any way.

Really?

Yeah, because at the very beginning they have that robot voice which also fun fact, that was the voice of the car, the self driving car later on.

But that was the first time and possibly the only time still that all the opening credits were not shown on screen and were just audio.

Audio.

Oh yeah.

I did not even notice.

Yeah, it's kind of cool.

Yeah, I think I'm going to go back and rewatch that just to see what it's like because I didn't pick up on it one bit.

Yeah, it's just real quick and you kind of don't really think about it.

But yeah, it's like a computer voice.

It's just like so and so Presents Blumhouse Productions upgrade.

And then that's how the movie starts.

Oh, okay.

Well, that, that makes sense why I missed it.

I was thinking there was a computer voice as the opening scene was going on, listing all the names of the people in it.

I'm like, I'm pretty sure I would have remembered that.

But yeah, so that's amazing little tidbit there.

This is just a stupid one for me, so don't even feel free to respond.

But the gun used to paralyze Joel was actually a Duck Hunt gun painted gray.

Really?

From the Nintendo game og Nintendo Duck Hunt gun that they cut the cable off of and painted gray.

I think I might have had a thought about that when I saw that because I think it made me think of like I.

I didn't identify Duck Hunt, but I was identifying like old school Nintendo.

Yeah.

So that was just a little fun one for me.

The director, Lee Whannell was originally involved with other production companies that actually wanted to go with a much higher budget.

I think the highest budget he was quoted was like $40 million.

So he could have gone that direction.

But as that was going on, he thought it was taking way too long for them to get their shit together.

None of the bigger Companies could decide on where it would be filmed or let him, like, how much control he would have based on how much money they gave him.

So he ended up just going with Blumhouse because, like I was saying earlier, he wanted to have this big concept, but specifically, specifically, purposefully, low budget project.

When he landed with them, he felt they took better risks with the horror genre.

Every.

I mean, I haven't actually seen any of the Jordan Peele movies, but every person I've talked to has said that they take everything we know about horror and just turn it into a weird thing that you haven't seen before.

So he loved the way that they did that and so that's why he wanted to go with them.

I think it definitely adds to the indie film without feeling unrealistic.

Yeah, yeah, No, I love it.

Yeah.

Like, I know people.

Like, we have a comedian.

I want to say her name here, but we have a comedian friend that's like obsessed with those films.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

Like it's their.

Their.

They went from being kind of like an indie thing to like having a lot of recognition.

Yeah.

But they still stick with low budgets on purpose because for them it's.

It's kind of like we were.

We were saying, it's like you don't want to get too bogged down in spending all this money on digital effects companies.

You want to keep it in these containable universes where, yeah, there are these huge concepts, but you're not going so far out.

The audiences disconnect.

Right.

Because you still want your people to relate to this overall story.

Exactly.

Right.

So I think that was really cool that he very purposefully chose a budget basically 10 times less than what he was offered to make this movie.

However, you couldn't see from the inside out.

In fact, the times that they showed them inside of the car was actually a set that they built that was not the actual car.

But that means that the guys driving the cars in the scenes where it's driving, like behind the muscle car that he finished, they're literally driving blind with directions given to them through a walkie talkie.

Huh.

That's amazing.

That's fun.

Like, the stunt crew went above and beyond to do whatever they could for this.

Did anybody get run over now?

No.

No injuries on that front.

As far as I could Tell that.

Yeah, that is a weird.

Like, imagine sitting down, having that conversation with your stunt actor, your actors and like, hey, so here's what we need you to do.

Roll with me on this one.

Yeah, we're going to tell you when to turn and how much to turn, but you're going to.

You got to kind of translate that correctly.

That'd be a nightmare for you.

I hate driving already.

And you can see I would hate every moment.

I would.

That.

Would.

That.

That might.

Yeah.

If hell exists.

That's it.

Blindfolded driving.

Yeah.

Just even at five miles an hour.

Fun little fact in the hallway which we talked about was the school that they turned into all of this stuff.

But in the hallway leading up to the hacker's apartment, I don't know if you noticed, but there was a Jigsaw puppet graffiti on one of the walls.

Really?

And then on another wall there was J.

Wan graffitied onto the wall.

Because he worked very, very good friends with James Wan, who did the Saw movies.

Yeah.

And Fast and Furious 7.

Yeah.

He best of the franchise.

He had to get permission to use the Jigsaw picture even though it was drawn by one of their artists.

And on the commentary he's literally like.

Because you know who doesn't own the copyrights to Saw?

Me.

You know who does own the copyrights of Saw?

James Wan.

So he literally said that he called him and he made him wait a whole four minutes before he responded to the email.

Wow, that's incredible.

Now I got to go back and watch that.

Yeah, that's so crazy.

I didn't see it.

And like I've seen this movie five or six times before.

I watched it with the commentary.

And then in the commentary, sitting there, he was like, oh yeah, there's Jigsaw over there.

And I was like, what?

Yeah, so that's amazing.

Yeah, great.

Little, little fun little bit there.

So we got two more.

This one is perhaps my favorite part of the movie.

And that is the.

The way the camera locks in on our lead character whenever.

And it's obviously not the whole time.

They were very particular about when they use this effect, but the very first time he's able to walk with stem, they have that camera locked movement.

And then every time during the fight scenes you have those moments too.

I was very curious how they were going to do that on a five million dollar budget.

Apparently all they did was developed a quick little app for an iPhone to be a tracker for the digital dolly that they use.

And they physically taped the phone to the actor's body and it would be used so that the camera was going to move in the exact same way the phone was facing.

Wow, that's really smart.

So literally, for probably $200 to pay someone to develop the quick little app, that's how they got such an expensive, insane looking camera.

Style it everywhere.

Now they use it for NFL commercials.

Like they have like a footage of Bijan Robinson running and it's only focused on him and it's really trippy.

Like it's everywhere.

All because of Upgrade.

Wow.

And that was.

That was a development of what is called a Snorri Cam.

Very much made famous in Requiem for a Dream, which you will see eventually.

But those shots where they basically strap the camera to the front of the actor and the actor carries the camera, that's where it kind of developed from.

It's started with that idea, but they took it to, in my opinion, just a whole new level with these fights.

Like the way that he was literally doing a backflip and he was still just in the middle of the frame the entire time.

Like technicality.

Part of that just.

It blows my mind.

It was absolutely my favorite thing about this movie were those scenes.

Like, I just.

They like.

It was so nice to see something that was a differentiator, something creative, new, innovative.

Yeah.

After a slew of crow films.

Exactly.

Talk about a film upgrade, am I right?

Yeah, talk about it.

But yeah, he wanted specifically to use that to make you realize that that's when Stem was in charge of the body.

Okay.

And I think they did a really.

Good job at balancing how often that's like.

That's one of those things that I'm.

As you say it, I'm realizing I noticed it whenever Stem was talking about.

It did have a different.

Yep.

Did have a different feel.

And it really showcases at the very end when Stem is fully taken over his body, every step that he makes.

And I think there's maybe two shots where you can see him in that mode.

Both of those shots fully use that effect because they wanted to get that across.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

I was wondering.

I was hoping you were going to talk about that because I was really curious.

That, as a filmmaker, just blows my mind.

And then we've got one final one.

Just a quick one.

Rendo, the director, really wanted to put nature into this futuristic world.

He wanted the technology to be based on nature.

And that's why on a lot of the screens you'll see like honeycomb shapes.

That's why there's all sorts of plants and stuff.

All throughout the modern houses.

The Elon Musk characters house, that was a set, their house at the very beginning, the interior of that, that was a set.

And they did that because they knew you weren't going to be able to redress someone's house to look correct that way or else it's going to be really expensive.

So they did that with the idea of having nature be a part of the design of the entire world with the tech itself.

Like I said, he wanted it all also to look like it was very integrated into daily life.

So, like when he's looking through the guy's coffee table that has the computer in it, that's why there's shit all over it, is because it's a functional coffee table that just happens to be able to tell you your emails.

Yeah, I would love that coffee table.

That would be so nice.

Yeah, I love that, man.

Yeah.

I noticed the plant especially in the.

We keep calling the Elon Musk.

I can't remember his name now.

Was it Aaron?

I think so.

I think it's Aaron.

But yeah, I love the plantation and stuff like that.

That was really cool.

That was an interesting touch.

Yeah.

And also.

Probably also lends back to the fact that this is like, it's a fuck.

I've had one of those every episode.

Yeah.

Not last one.

It's a society in transition.

I think that's how you need to talk society.

And I need to spray my mouth.

It sounds like stem has already taken.

You over coffee on mine.

What is funny to me is that the movie set in America filmed in Australia.

But they did such a good job at like, finding the one guy in town that had all the American cars.

Yeah.

And they used his cars in when any of the regular cars were there so that they could make it feel like it was shot in America.

I mean, I really had no idea it was.

It was Australia.

Australian film.

Well, that's because they were also very particular about, like, the XT exteriors that they shot because they didn't want it to be kind of like tied down to one specific location.

Did either of you guys watch this?

Feeling like this is where we are currently.

Like, we're on the verge.

Yeah.

I think we're probably 10, 15 years away from.

Yeah.

I mean, like, that's kind of what made the, like, it feel like a enjoyable plotline to watch is like I could see this happening.

Yeah.

Like, it felt a little too real.

Yeah.

And I think we're on track for that.

That's what great sci fi does.

And that's another reason I love some of those.

Like, Total Recall.

Feels like a no duh now.

Yeah.

It's just like implanting memories in your mind.

It's like, that's nothing now.

Exactly.

So shall we upgrade?

Let's upgrade.

Shall we get malware?

Oh, so it's upgraded malware.

Shall we get fisky with each other?

Get it.

Fisk mustache.

Fisk top Bill.

Cast.

I would just say Logan Marshall Green here because even his wife was very in the background.

Well, I would also say Stem, though.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, the voice.

Well, Hal, he gave me major Hal Vibes, by the way.

From Space.

From, you know, A Space Odyssey.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But I would definitely say they're.

They're the two leads of the film.

And if it's yes, it's an upgrade.

If it's no, it's a downgrade.

Okay.

My idea.

That was me.

You own this thing 100% upgrade.

Like, yeah.

Especially because I would have said this even before I did all the research, but knowing the dedication he had in basically the two months before they even filmed of doing nothing but prepare.

See, now I'm doing it, preparing for this role.

And you guys need to learn how to speak.

I know.

Need an upgrade over here.

Yeah, but no, 100%.

That's.

That's an upgrade.

Like, he absolutely murdered it.

I agree.

I'll give him an upgrade.

Especially with the context that you were sharing about how much work he went into it.

But even before then, I was one thing that impressed me about his.

His performance was when he was learning how to walk.

Or not so much when he was learning.

When he was upgraded and he was starting to walk on his own like, that he really sold the whole, like, I'm getting my limbs back.

Absolutely.

And, like.

And like, I know earlier I said I wasn't too captivated by, like, the plot and the dialogue between people, but, like, that's not to be mistaken that, like, I thought he did a good job acting.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

I thought it was interesting.

So, by the way, Stem, voiced by Simon Maiden, Australian actor, was the person that voiced.

Did a great job.

I.

At first.

And I loved that Logan Marshall Green was getting a shot because Prometheus is one of my favorite movies.

I love it.

And I was nice.

It was nice to see him get a shot in a lead role.

I'm not going to lie.

At the beginning, it felt a little dry.

But then I saw there was a reason for that, because he was fixing it into a world where he's an everyman.

Yeah.

In a world where every men are now looked down upon.

When you said the racism element, that actually really clicked with me because I was like.

I didn't necessarily call it racism but there definitely was a superiority complex that had occurred with technology.

Former prejudice.

Yeah.

And this is a guy, he's a mechanic, he's an everyman, he's a project guy.

Like he's hands on.

And a world that's becoming more and more.

And it's funny because his wife is a technologist.

Exactly.

And I actually got it.

He needed to be dry because he needed to be less sophisticated.

Yeah.

And that being said, I do give it an upgrade because I like I said the first 10 minutes I was like, I don't know if I like him in this role.

Then it made total sense.

Yeah.

I saw why he needed to play it that way.

I thought the voice of STEM was great because it actually I would put it up there.

Yeah.

But it definitely like was good enough to give me the vibes of how like turning on humanity.

And it's definitely memorable.

The Lee was talking about how the.

The direction that he gave him was.

Well, he wanted it to be robotic.

And again this is even before like chat.

GPT had voice capabilities but he wanted it to.

To feel like a person that was also a robot.

Yeah.

So that kind of transitional period where we have that uncanny valley.

Yes.

It sounds like a real person, but.

It'S still the stilted cadence of modulated.

Yeah.

Well, was the character of Sim was interesting because at the beginning you feel like he's like trying to dialogue with the lead character.

Like he's like reasoning with him or trying to talk him into stuff.

Yeah.

But then kind of towards the end you realize it's just he's.

It's like AI that understands how humans work so well.

Exactly.

That it's it and it's like a formula.

He knows how.

Just like he knew how to work the karate moves at the right time and predicted where people are at.

You know, humans are an algorithm too that he had at that point understood.

So he was getting to where he needed to get on a person is a weird.

Because at first you're like, oh, that's.

Well, I mean I first like oh, it's like a nice robot.

Yeah.

And then honestly like midway into the movie I was like, this robot's not.

Yeah.

Well, the moment he Explains to him that that going through that reboot period is what basically untethered him.

That's when you're like, oh, shit.

As soon as he was like, we need to get me untethered, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, yeah, that's a bad idea.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'll say that I think it takes a lot for when you just have a voice because it's different.

Right.

Like, it's not like voice acting for an animated film.

Like, this is a live action movie with real people and everything, but you have to be a voice that somehow expresses emotion.

I'm so convinced that he's a friendly, friendly piece of technology at the beginning.

Like, I love how he interacts.

Yeah.

With Gray.

Like, I love their conversations.

I think it's really funny.

And I actually am kind of, like, blown away by how 80s ass it is because that's very Arnold.

Like, he was even in, like, the most violent portions of Predator.

He could find a way to be funny.

Yeah.

You know, and that definitely was a callback.

And so I thought they nailed it.

And then, like, he did it so well that I never actually.

I'm pretty good at seeing, like, the end, Like, I think.

Yeah.

He convinced me so well that he was his friend, that I never saw the betrayal coming.

Yeah.

And then I felt like an idiot.

And then when he turned, he turned.

Oh, yeah.

And to do all that with a voice like Simon, I don't see any, like, notable credits the actor, but he deserves a lot of credit.

Absolutely.

For that.

So.

All right, we've got an upgrade so far.

One to zero.

All right, supporting cast.

And this is going to be kind of hard to jump around on, but I'll start with Benedict Hardy, who played Fisk, the mustache man.

Tolan, played by Christopher Kirby, the guy that got his face knifed, which was wild in our Elon Musk guy, Aaron Keane, played by Harrison Sloan Gilbertson.

I'll give.

I'll toss the wife in here.

She doesn't.

Doesn't even have a picture in IMDb.

Oh, wow, that's a bummer.

Melanie.

Yeah, Melanie Vallejo.

She had a nice face.

Yeah, she had a face.

Yeah.

More than stem.

And then Cirque, one of the.

One of the henchmen type guys.

Richard Cawthorn.

Yeah.

I do give them all an upgrade, which I'm sensing you're probably not, but let me tell you why I probably sort of agree with you.

I could be completely off base here, but I think it leads into what we were talking about with the first Crow movie.

These are not guys that you're supposed to know their background to.

You're not supposed to feel sorry for them.

In fact, you're probably kind of just supposed to be like, you piece of shit, you killed my wife.

I want to go fuck you up.

Yeah, they did their job in that way.

I can definitely see how there could have been more depth to the characters themselves, whether we saw the development of that depth.

But I'm also remembering they probably rehearsed for a week before they shot the movie.

It's not one of these things where you have like two, three months to rehearse and really get to the, the have the ability to write a 50 page character outline like Johnny Depp did for Jack Sparrow.

So I can see how just because of the nature of indie movies, they probably could have done more with the characters just if they had done more homework, not even better homework, which is more homework.

But I still give them an upgrade because I feel like for everything that was going on with the production of this movie, they absolutely stepped up to the task.

Yeah, yeah.

I honestly, I was going to give like a similar answer.

I this, the story wasn't captivating to me where like, I was bored for most of the movie, but I know, I'm sorry.

But I do feel like the actors did their job, you know, Like, I so like, you know, the henchman villain with the kind of equal that was, that was an interesting character, that was interesting to the wife was for the short time that she was in the film, she made us care about her.

But like, as I was watching, I was like, I know you're gonna die.

Like, I know this is where this is going.

Like they that like, so it was very cookie cutter to me, but I was like, but you're, I mean, you are making me like you, the Elon Musk character, I thought, I thought maybe he was what is just because I, for most of the movie thought he was going to be the villain.

Yeah, that's kind of what they set you up to believe.

And like he did a good job of giving us some convincing reasons.

So, so no, I'll give him an upgrade.

I mean, who cares?

It's a begrudging fine.

But like, it wasn't their fault.

Yeah, they're downgrading Seth's emotions right now.

His zeitgeist around.

Listen, I hope I can one day find a woman that loves me the way you love this.

I, I, When I listened to you talk about this at the beginning of this podcast, I was like, I wish I loved anything.

Like.

This is a nice.

Good.

It is a nice relationship you guys have.

Yeah, it is.

Better than saying you enjoy Wicked Prayer.

Yeah, I love that thing.

Now, that's like the thing in this.

We're just going to keep referencing back.

Listen, I enjoyed crap.

I enjoyed our time crapping on Wicked Prayer.

That's a fun movie to crap on the memories.

I bet you if we got the cast of Wicked Prayer on here, they would crap on it just as much.

I think they pretend it doesn't exist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think Dennis Harper snorted his way out of remembering it doesn't exist.

They try not to.

Well, I actually did go downgrade, Seth.

I'm sorry.

And it's all.

It's all because of Fisk.

I.

But he played his character the way that it was supposed to be played, did he not?

Yeah, but you just don't like him.

I don't like the character design in terms.

Not just his look, but.

And some of the stuff he did.

It.

You did shed some light.

Like he was.

He seemed more like a disgruntled IT guy than anything.

Yeah, but I just.

I just felt like I needed more from my foe.

Because if I really am going to take.

And this is completely on my own mentality, if I really am going to say this is maybe helping me revive a genre I once love, which even.

You know, because even some of the later alien films, the RoboCop reboot, they didn't cap.

They didn't capture what made those older ones great to me.

So I'm like, if this is going to be it and it's getting there, this foe doesn't really hit any of those things for me.

And it's just not a focus for me.

I have to equally love the foe as much, in some cases.

Love the foe more.

Yeah.

And I.

This is.

I can't wrap my mind around him.

He's.

He's maybe sadistic, but maybe he's just a hired gun.

Maybe he's, like, really evil, but I can't really tell if he's just really a mercenary.

Like.

Yeah, I just.

I don't need much more backstory, but I just needed something to say.

This is a formidable foe.

But see, he wasn't like the real foe exactly.

Yeah, yeah, he was.

He was a hired hand to the.

He was like a mini boss.

He was not even a mini boss, because you could argue Elon Musk was the mini boss.

Yeah, he was.

He was the.

I didn't like him either.

The henchman to the.

Yeah.

He was.

I thought that last scene really solidified just like the type of character he was.

You think he's this emotionless, like, feeling less person, and then you find out he's literally just has a gun pointed to his head that.

Yeah.

Every time you know him.

I didn't like the way he played it, though.

I.

I thought he was.

I thought he was like a bad caricature of what you would think.

A technologist.

We see what our.

We see what our technologists act like.

I mean, you know, and.

And even the ones that are making the robots and stuff are.

Are surfers and you know what I mean?

Like, Mark Zuckerberg's doing jiu jitsu now.

You know what I mean?

I felt like he also at times was dressed like a Bond villain.

Yeah.

And so between me, Draco Malfoyva vibes, completely.

Yeah.

Between the Bond outfit and the.

The slightly like, I.

This was like.

This is like a bad characterization of what a technologist would.

An evil technology would do now.

I'm sorry, I feel bad.

I feel bad, but it doesn't matter.

I mean, you still lost.

I still lost, but take that upgrade.

No, said my piece.

But the mustache, Fisk getting fisky with it.

All right.

It's two to zero.

We're going.

Heading towards an upgrade potentially here.

Writing.

So Lee Whannell, who also wrote Insidious 3, by the way, Invisible man, as the director, wrote Saw 1 through 3.

Right.

A lot of.

A lot of crazy Saw 1.

Also wrote the short film that.

That started the whole Saw thing.

Yeah.

This guy's got a few credits.

Yeah, he.

I think he met James 1 in film school.

Like, that's when they got together.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

I'll jump first on this.

Yeah.

We'll start with you because.

And it's not a testament to all the movies that he's been.

But, like, if I'm just going to talk about this movie specifically the writing, I'll give a downgrade.

Like, it just.

I was bored.

Like, not that.

Not to say that it was bad, but it wasn't like, Like, I didn't.

So I know it's a good movie or a fun movie to watch.

If the next day, in a conversation with a friend, I'm like, you should check out this movie.

And when it was like, with a friend, I was like, I saw a movie last night.

You just hate everything good.

I've been told that numerous times.

So this is going to shock you.

I too, am going to give the writing a down.

Yes.