You don’t have to have all the right answers to help a child know Jesus—you just need to be willing to listen, ask questions, and create space for them to be heard.

Episode Summary

How do we help kids develop a faith that becomes truly their own?

Talking with kids about Jesus can feel intimidating. We worry about saying the right thing, answering hard questions correctly, or teaching them everything they need to know. But Children’s Ministry Director Ellie Fowler believes some of the most meaningful spiritual conversations begin when adults stop worrying about having all the answers and simply listen.

Ellie joins Willow for a fun and thoughtful conversation about creating safe spaces where kids can ask questions, explore faith, and discover who Jesus is for themselves. Rather than underestimating children or simplifying faith because we assume they won’t understand, Ellie encourages us to value their curiosity, invite their questions, and give them a voice in spiritual conversations.

Ellie also shares how her own faith journey has shaped the way she approaches ministry. Growing up, faith often felt black-and-white and focused more on rules than relationship. Eventually, she had to decide for herself what she believed—a reminder that while we can teach, model, and plant seeds of faith in children, ultimately their relationship with Jesus has to become their own.

At the heart of Ellie’s work is a desire to create spaces where kids feel safe, loved, heard, and free to be themselves. Whether she has years to invest in a child or just one Sunday morning, she asks: How can I be Jesus to this child in the time I have?

If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re doing enough to shape a child’s faith, this episode will remind you that you don’t have to be a pastor or theologian. Listen. Ask questions. Love them well. And trust God with the seeds you’re planting.

Meet Ellie Fowler

Ellie Fowler is the Children’s Ministry Director at Christ the King Church in the Pacific Northwest. Before stepping into ministry, Ellie studied early childhood education and attended beauty school with dreams of working at Disneyland’s Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique. Today, she combines her love for kids, creativity, and faith to help children know Jesus and feel deeply valued.

Ellie loves glitter, Disney, colorful hair, tattoos, CrossFit, and creating spaces where kids can show up exactly as they are. Through her work, she’s discovered that one of her God-given gifts is simply loving other people’s children and being fully present with them.

Key Takeaways

• Listen before you teach: Kids don’t need you to have a perfect theological answer. They need adults who take their questions seriously.
• Ask questions about faith: Instead of only telling kids about Jesus, ask what they think about Him and give their spiritual voice value.
• Don’t underestimate kids: Invite them into meaningful conversations and explain unfamiliar ideas rather than assuming they won’t understand.
• Let faith become their own: Plant seeds, model your faith, love them well, and trust God with their individual journey.
• Focus on who Jesus is: Rather than simply teaching kids to “be good,” help them understand the character of Jesus and let kindness and generosity flow from knowing Him.
• Embrace questions you can’t answer: It’s okay to say, “I don’t know.” Kids’ curiosity can deepen our faith, too.
• Remember that every moment matters: Even if you only have one hour with a child, you have an opportunity to help them experience the love of Jesus.

How This Episode Will Encourage You

You don’t have to create a perfect faith foundation for the children in your life. Whether you’re a parent, grandparent, teacher, coach, ministry volunteer, or trusted adult, you can create a space where kids know their questions matter, their voices have value, and they are deeply loved.

Sometimes sharing Jesus is as simple as sitting beside a child, listening carefully, asking a good question, and being present.

Plant the seeds. Love them well. And trust God with what grows.

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Welcome to the Collide Podcast. We're a growing community of everyday chicks colliding with Jesus in our mess, our pain, our joy, and our stories.

We value showing up as we truly are. So that's what you'll find here.

Walls and masks being torn down so that we can allow Jesus to meet us where we truly are and hear about other women doing the same. We can't wait to collide with you.

We as adults can get really caught up on that. Like, I have to know the right thing to say and the right answer to have.

A lot of it's just listening, because if there's anything I've learned from kiddos, they are ridiculously curious and such beautiful ways. And kids love asking questions and they love getting answers.

Hey, there. Welcome to the Collide Podcast.

I'm Willow Weston, the director of Collide, and I love that I get to spend the next few minutes with you and also with our guest, Ellie Fowler.

Today, Ellie is the children's ministry director at a church in the Pacific Northwest called Christ the King, and she has a very interesting story on the road that led her to here. We're going to talk about all things tattoos, glitter, Disney, talking to kids about Jesus. This woman loves to surf. She cries in most movies.

She's been married to her husband Will for two years. She grew up in a home with six children. Her mother is Hawaiian, her father's Mexican, and she grew up being bilingual.

There's so much to talk about, Ellie, that I am so glad that you hopped on the pod today.

Oh, thank you. I'm really excited to be here.

So I heard I'm supposed to ask you if you have any favorite tattoos, and when I was told that I should ask you this, it almost felt like this question's a trap, and I'm not sure who's getting trapped, me or you. So, Ellie, do you have any favorite tattoos?

Oh, goodness. I feel like this might be a trap, because I might kind of know where this question was coming from.

So, yeah, I actually grew up incredibly conservatively, so tattoos were a no, no.

So being out of the household, I think I got my first tattoo when I was 20, and it was also that thing I just never thought that I would get until I found something meaningful enough. But I would say probably my favorite right now. And I think I only have six, which I'm more a fan of uneven numbers. So we got to work on that.

We got to get to tattoo number seven. But there is this beautiful worship song called Refiner, and I don't Know if y' all have heard of it, but you should go and find it.

It's absolutely beautiful. But in the. If I know anything about music, it gets to the bridge where it says, burn me beautiful. Burn me lovely. Burn me righteous. Burn me holy.

And that was a song that I listened to a lot over the past year, and that particular chunk really stuck with. And so I spoke to a really sweet friend of mine, Carrie, who was on the podcast not long ago, and I love Carrie's handwriting.

And I said, hey, could you write this out for me? I want to get it tattooed. And she said, are you sure you want my handwriting? It's really not the fanciest handwriting.

And I think that's something that I loved about it, is I loved the beauty of its imperfection and its inconsistency, because that's just humanity in its. In its rare form. So I would say that's maybe that's the trick of the question. And she was wondering if that's how I would answer it. So it is.

Yeah. Gary's the one who told me to ask this. So where is that tattoo on your body?

It's tattooed on my back, which was also a funny location because usually I pick placements because I want to be able to see the tattoo myself. So this one was more internalized. It was like, I'm not going to be able to see it every single day.

Every now and then, I'll catch glimpses of it, and it'll be a good reminder. But it was more a tattoo for my heart than anything else. So, yeah, I'd like to think most of my tattoos have some pretty special meaning.

So, yeah, I guess I would have to say that one is my favorite.

Yeah, that's what she was going for, since it's in her. Ellie, you mentioned growing up, you know, in a conservative home, and tattoos were a. No, no. What was your first tattoo?

And then how did that go over? I'm really curious.

Yes. So my very first tattoo, I thought long and hard about it, and I decided to get a peacock feather.

And so this was kind of meant to represent a side of my faith kind of growing up, because I think of peacocks. They're flightless birds.

And growing up really conservatively in a church that was very black and white, very religious, it was very constricting in a lot of ways, I would say. And we weren't taught or shown what it looked like to really have a relationship with the father.

And so thinking of the peacock and being this flightless bird, that was kind of it's meant to represent a part of my past and my upbringing. But then, in the same time, to me, birds still represent freedom.

And so a peacock being a bird was meant to kind of symbolize where my relationship with Christ has come to now and how it continues to grow. So, yeah, that was kind of a little bit of the meaning there with that. So, yep. Peacock feather was my first. First tattoo. Yeah.

How'd that go over with the fam when you showed that one off?

Yeah, my mother was the first one I showed, and I took her aside and I said, hey, I'd like to show you something. And I really wasn't sure how it was going to go. And I showed her, and I explained to her the story, and she just cried.

And that was not a reaction that I had anticipated. And I think from speaking with her, more about was this understanding that having a tattoo was not an act of rebellion.

It wasn't saying, I'm dismissing my upbringing or the conservative household we have created, but this is actually just a way for me to express who I am and my own character. And I think for her, that was really important to see that, yeah, this was something intentional. It wasn't on a whim.

You weren't doing this kind of to spit in our faces. My papa was a little different.

He has always been much more conservative, and I think just in general as a father, which is a space I will never understand. Very protective of his girls. There are four girls in my family. So, yeah, I think for him, it was just. He didn't really necessarily say anything.

It was just kind of okay. And then we. We all moved on.

And there have been conversations, I know, over the years where I think in the first probably two, three years or so of me getting tattoos and body piercings, it was that, oh, well, those are things that pirates and criminals do, not things that regular people in society should partake in. So I think there was a bit of that.

But I would say, as time has gone on, he's, I would say, warmed up to it, or at least if he still does have strong opinions, he. He keeps them quieted.

So, yeah, that's hilarious. Pirates and criminals. You know, I also heard your favorite colors, glitter, and I. I just want to be let in on what's going on there.

Oh, goodness, yes. So this. This is always a funny one to me, because glitter wasn't always my favorite color.

I think I loved it in its contained forms, which is very rare, because the thing about glitter is it gets everywhere and it never leaves. But there's if you can embrace it, which I don't expect anyone and everyone to do. It is just so fun.

Like it's shiny and it sparkles and it's bright and it brings joy and you can find it on anything. You can stick it on anything. Yeah, there's just something just really exciting to me about. About glitter.

I love it. I'm a glitter fan too. I also heard you love CrossFit and I want to hear more about that because I was in CrossFit.

Well, my husband was in CrossFit for years.

I joined CrossFit for a few months because my friends own a CrossFit gym and I love the community and the people, but I had moments where I was like, why am I paying for this? Like to run in a public street wearing a sandbag on my back? Like, why do you love CrossFit, Ellie?

Yeah, that's a great question. So the pastor of Christ the King where I work, him and his wife, they did CrossFit for years. They were trainers.

They have worked with a lot of people and they have specifically felt called to have a home gym where people can just go and utilize the equipment.

Whether it's because they don't have the money to get a gym membership or whether it's because they have an aversion to gyms, which is part of my story. They wanted to create just a space for people to be comfortable enough to take care of their bodies. And so I started nannying for this family.

Oh goodness. I think we're at almost three years ago now.

I basically came on when their daughter was a year old and then I was able to nanny for her for two years. Really grew a beautiful relationship there, strong friendship. And they always had this backyard gym. And I just kept wondering like, could I do it?

Could I do something good for my body? Do I even want to? And just having this total aversion to gyms in general.

There was something that felt safe about doing it in someone's backyard where it was a fenced in neighborhood where nobody was going to see me. I wasn't going to need to feel like I needed to show off in front of everyone.

Because I don't know if you've experienced this, but I think a lot of times it's common to walk into a gym that is full of equipment and you don't know how to use 90% of it. And I'm like, I'm going to be that girl that just walks in and is just completely baffled, has no idea what to do.

So for me, I just had really sweet friends that said, hey, if you're interested, we would love to help you. We can train you in some CrossFit movements and just go from there. And so that was a couple years ago we started on that.

And my fitness journey has always been a bit of a roller coaster. I think, like a lot of people in general, it's hard to learn to love your body. It takes a lot of work.

And I think that journey in itself is a roller coaster as well for a lot of us.

But if anything, I think the things that CrossFit has taught me are, one, that fitness can be an act of worship, which is not something I anticipated learning, because I'm often the person that after a set of lifting weights of something, I'm like, you know, screaming, I never want to do that again. But learning that it's an act of worship because our bodies are a gift, right? And we get to learn how to take care of them.

So that's been something really important that I learned. And two, it's been really exciting to find out what I'm capable of.

And I think that's something where in doing CrossFit and seeing physically what I'm able to do, it then reaches out into other aspects of my life where I go, okay, what else can I do? What can I do creatively? How can I serve others and do that kind of.

Even if it's uncomfortable, what areas can I continue to be stretched and pushed in? And, yeah, I'm not gonna lie. Like, my quads. I got some firm quads now, Willow. And that wouldn't have come without the hard work.

So, you know, there's just so much, I think, that goes into it, and really having a strong support system was really the start of it all.

I love what you just said about crossf that you.

You talked about how, in a sense, it realizing that you can do that kind of opens up, you know, what else can you do that you don't think is possible? And. And it makes me really want to ask you, at one point, you went to beauty school, and now you're a children's ministry director.

So how did God totally kind of turn upside down what you are doing with your life and your career and calling.

Yes.

So I think maybe to understand a little bit of why I went to beauty school, I might have to back us up just a little bit, because when I initially went to school, I attended a local community college, and the intention was to get an associate's degree in Early Childhood Education. So I Think the hope there was always to go into something where I would be working with children.

Now I was in the same math class for the third time because I had failed two times prior. And it was basically explained to me, this is your last chance to take this course. If you fail it, we have to send you to a different school.

And I think probably about halfway through the semester it became very clear that if I was going to pass, it meant acing every single test from here on out. And the thought that that was even possible was not there. I thought, okay, I haven't been doing well this entire time.

I don't think it's going to happen. And I, at that point I had tried everything.

I had multiple tutors, I was going to the student math center multiple times a week and getting help with my math homework. And the tests would come and it was like my mind would blank, everything was gone.

And I would even go through it and I would be solving these problems going, wow, this actually seems pretty easy. There's no way I did that correctly. So I'd erase it all and I'd find some way to complicate it.

And so then, yeah, we got through the rest of the semester as best we could. I wasn't ready to throw in the towel, but it was, yeah, I did not pass that last time around. So then it was okay, where do we go from here?

And this is where my papa gets I told you'd so right. Because in high school he I always loved playing with hair growing up and having younger sisters.

I would sit them down on the edge of the bathtub while I sit stood in the tub and I practiced braiding their hair. And I had this Barbie hair styling book that taught you how to braid and curl and all these kinds of things.

And my sisters were kind enough to just let me yank on their poor heads.

And so it was that thing that I really loved doing growing up, but never thought of as a career because for me in high school it was kind of if you wanted to be anyone and do anything, you have to go to a four year university. And that wasn't pressure from home, that was just kind of societally.

I figured that's what you have to do to be successful, to make money, to go somewhere in life. And so the thought of going to beauty school was like, that's for poor dumb kids, not for me. I'm not poor and I'm not dumb.

And so in being in college and realizing, okay, this isn't going in the direction that I want, what's next. Then kind of the light bulb came back on of, oh, you've actually always loved doing hair. Could you give that a go?

And so, yeah, I wound up, I think it was maybe six months later, enrolling for a local beauty school, the only one in the area. I think years ago, there were maybe three or four to choose from and they had all shut down over the course of time.

And so I wound up attending a local beauty school. I really enjoyed the process.

It was a pretty quick one year program and it covered hair styling, haircuts, makeup application and waxing, which was not my favorite part of the process. But all in all, I think I had a really great time. I met some amazing people, really encouraging people.

And I think that's something in the beauty industry is that it's very competitive.

And so to be in kind of this environment where we're all learning and we're all growing and it doesn't feel like anyone's being catty or at each other's throats, it's just kind of, how can I help you? How can you help me? That was really good. And I loved what I was able to learn.

And I think in a lot of ways too, I was able to learn from my peers, not just from the instructors. And my dream, my dream when I was finishing up school was to apply to work at Disneyland.

They have a little boutique called the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique where you get to be what they call a fairy in fairy in training or a godmother in training, something like that. And you just get to dress kids up. They come in, you do their hair, you do their makeup, the whole nine yards.

And then what I thought was the funnest process is at the end, you wave this little wand that then dispenses pixie dust, glitter, if you will. I thought, wow, how fun would that be to get to wear a costume to work and to help kids feel absolutely magical.

And so that was kind of the route that I wanted to go. But unbeknownst to me, like, it's not easy to get a job at Disney. It can take a long, long time.

And so I had finished school, did not at the time have the money to go and take the tests to get certified. And I just kept thinking, we'll get to that eventually, we'll get to that eventually.

And I think it got to a point where not doing it, I think the dream kind of dwindled away. It was kind of like, okay, if it's not Disney right now, which is understandable. Do we want to work in a salon?

Because that kind of seems like the next step. Like, do we just kind of do some other beauty oriented tasks on our way to Disney?

And I had friends at the time that were working at salons and I was hearing their stories and both good, but a lot of really negative too. And I have always loved styling hair and I love cutting hair. Coloring hair is a completely different science that is absolutely terrifying to me.

So I think for me that was. I'm going to have an awful time trying to work in a salon if I don't know what I'm doing.

And yeah, a lot of the things you learn over time and you get better obviously as you're working at it. But there was just so much of me that I think I just feared failing miserably.

And I finally was like, okay, I don't know that this is something that I want enough to keep going for it.

So I believe, yeah, right around the time that I was done with school, I had been volunteering at the church that I now work at for a while in their kids ministry. And that's when the job, a job opening came up, probably about a year or so into me volunteering.

Right. That's how life works. I mean, the Lord kind of takes you down all sorts of paths and directions and it really shapes who you are and your passions.

And you realize, you know, some dreams have to die in order for new ones to be born. And I love that God doesn't just, you know, have a dream, die and not rebirth a new, a new dream.

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You know, here you are in your children's ministry director and you're investing in kids every single week. Week. I'm curious, did you grow up in Sunday school? What was your experience of learning about Jesus growing up and how did that.

Now how does that inform you in the work that you're currently doing?

Yeah. So I grew up going to church. My papa was raised Catholic and then family converted to Christianity, if that's how that works.

Because I know that's also like Catholicism is under the umbrella of Christianity. And then my was raised in a Baptist household. So we went to church from a young age.

I still pretty clearly remember kind of my Sunday school experiences, memorizing scripture and getting prizes for it and those kinds of things, usually snacks that we weren't allowed at home. So that was always kind of fun.

But yeah, if I can remember correctly, if memory serves me right, and this is always the joke that I have a pretty poor memory, but I believe I was about six years old when they had kind of done the altar call in service and said, this is a time if you would like to accept Christ into your heart, you can come up and pray this prayer with us. So I did, I didn't really think, I didn't think twice about it. I just thought, okay, I've been learning about this Jesus guy.

Sounds like a pretty neat guy. Let's let him into our heart. I don't know if anything magical is going to happen. I'm sure it will. That's how that works, right?

Glitter and pixie dust.

Exactly. And so yeah, accepted Christ into my heart from a very young age.

And I had the church that we went to, we went to with a family of ours, so I had a number of cousins and we, we got to be in Sunday school together and we talked Bible a lot and they asked a lot of really good questions and all of those kinds of things.

And I think part of the joke a little, it's kind of funny now, but there was apparently a prayer while we were going to church, and I was probably about 10 at the time where the pastor had said something at the front of service. Because kind of the way that the church that we went to worked was there would be like a Sunday morning service where they had Sunday school.

So there was a program for the kiddos. But we would go to church in the morning and then we'd come back in the evening time.

And then in the evening there ordinarily wasn't service for kiddos.

So you'd just be sitting with your parents as patiently as humanly possible through very long church services that would start at like 7 o' clock at night. So, you know, you're, it's, it's nine and you're 10 years old, like fiddling in your chair, trying not to fall Asleep. Hardcore, very hardcore.

But I think on one of these nights and kind of my slightly sleepy state, the pastor had prayed a prayer at the front of the service and he had invited people to come up. And I saw my cousin who was closest in age to me, head on up and I go, okay, I don't know what's going on, but I guess we're walking up. Here we go.

And so I just followed him up. Didn't really think anything of it. And I remember after that service, my mama asked me, do you know what they called you up for?

Do you know what they were praying about? They go, to be honest, I kind of missed it. I probably shouldn't have walked up without knowing.

She goes, they were, they were calling people up who felt called to be pastors someday. So at that time, you know, being a kid going, oh yeah, I definitely shouldn't have walked up because I did not know what I was asking for.

I say, now it's funny because that's kind of the role that I get to be in and it's not something that I ever thought would happen. So, yeah, again we talk about, you know, it's God's got his plans.

I like to jokingly say sneaky Jesus because he knows what's up, even if we haven't caught on yet. So, yeah, that's awesome.

Well, sneaky Jesus has you investing in these kids week after week. And one of the things I'm kind of wondering about because you're working hard and you're sacrificing and you're showing up for them every week.

And if you look at the statistics on kids who grow up in faith and in the church and in Christian homes and the number of them that are walking away from their faith as young adults, it's actually staggering.

And I guess one of my questions to you is kind of a two part question, which is how pivotal, pivotal do you believe the young years are in shaping faith for a future adult? And do you ever wonder if all your hard work will sustain through a child's life into adulthood?

I think that it's very pivotal for us to have healthy conversations about the gospel. But even in my own experience, like I love, I love feeling and knowing like we're doing something, we're doing very important work.

Because I don't negate that.

I think even, you know, yes, the hope is that what we're teaching to the kiddos sticks right, and that they carry it on throughout the rest of their lives. That is the hope.

But I think in my experience and in the experience of many others with faith in general, it has to get to a point where it's personal choice. You can be taught all of the right things, the good teachings.

You can ask the right questions and get really deep answers, but you have to get to a point where it's your own personal block and you have to decide for yourself. Okay, this is what I want. Because in my own personal story, yes, I grew up going to church.

We, in our house, memorize scripture every Sunday and Wednesday like clockwork. I had to memorize the Ten Commandments.

And like I said earlier, kind of growing up very black and white, we had this sense of what was right and what was wrong.

But there was a point in my adolescence where I was very angry with God and I didn't know if he was still somebody I wanted to keep following or what that meant for me personally. And I'm thankful that I got to a place where I really realized, nope.

I think of all of the directions I've tried to go, this one seems like the most right. So until we kind of figure this out and iron it out and have more answers, we're just going to keep going in this direction. So all that to say?

I would like to say yes. Like, it's. I like to think of the work that we do as very important and I think very encouraging.

At the same time, I think sometimes I make these comments that if we're encouraging these kiddos enough, if they feel loved, if they feel like we're creating a safe space for them to just be themselves, they're gonna be the ones dragging their parents to church on Sundays. They're gonna be the ones saying, hey, mom and dad, we gotta wake up. We're not gonna be late. We gotta go. So all of that, I think, is encouraging.

And I think. I know there was a second part to your question. Could you.

Well, just if you ever wonder if all your hard work will sustain through a child's life into adulthood.

And again, that's the hope, right? And then on the other hand, you go, even if it doesn't.

And I think a lot of our kids, like, we're very fortunate that the church that I'm at were small. Most of our kids are regulars. We're seeing them every single Sunday. But then I also think about the kiddos we're only going to see once.

And I go, if all we get is an hour on one Sunday out of this child's entire life,.

How do.

We just be Jesus for that hour? Whether whatever their experiences, they get to continue carrying or whether they forget it the second they leave.

Yes, the hope and the desire is that what they get, they'll carry forever. But even if they don't, you know, like, like how do I just love them right now in this moment, if this is all I get?

And I think that that is kind of where you hold on to the hope of it. You know, it's, it's, it's. I might not get all the Sundays. I might not see these kids for years and years and years.

I might not ever get to meet them in adulthood and know if they ever have some sort of story where they say, oh, when I was seven years old, I got to learn about the story of Peter. And that really encouraged me to keep following Jesus.

Like, I don't know if I will ever get the opportunity to meet these kids, you know, years from now and kind of hear their experience. But I don't think that that hinders us from continuing to do the good work or at least I would hope not.

And I think that's what I've heard a lot from volunteers as well is, you know, in general they just love getting to show up and, and serve and yeah, just what, what is the phrase that we use? Love little hearts to Jesus.

So yeah, I love that perspective. I mean, coming from, you know, I was a kid who had kind of the opposite experience than you.

Not raised in church at all and very liberal and a girlfriend of mine invited me to my first Sunday school experience probably when I was like five or six. And I remember going, and I'd never even heard about Jesus.

And I remember being so stoked leaving Sunday school that I skipped all the way home happily singing the B I B L E is that's the book for me. I stand alone on the word of God, the B I, B L E. And I didn't, I'd never even heard of the Bible before. We didn't have one in our house ever.

Growing up. I knock on the door, my mom comes at the door and I start singing this song to her.

And I think she was less than enthused because she probably thought I was being brainwashed. But I think that the Lord plant seeds and that's what I see.

But I also really agree with you just as a mom of kids, you know, I'm sending my 18 year old off to college and I'm, I think I've been in a really like critical mode of myself on like, did I teach him, him all the things about faith in Jesus that I wanted to, Did I pour into him and invest in him and have the important spiritual conversations I wanted to like, because I'm becoming less and less of an influence in his life as I send him out.

And I have to keep reminding myself that it took, you know, that little Sunday school experience I had way back when in a little white Presbyterian church. And it took so many other different people loving me to Jesus.

But by the time I got to him, I stumbled to Jesus in my pain and brokenness, my life was such a mess. I was so hurt and so hungry and in need of help. And sometimes I have to remind myself that my kids might not be any different.

Like, just because I tell them about Jesus or they went to Sunday school or whatever, doesn't mean that they're not going to have to figure out what, through their own pain and their own hardship and their own way, whether or not they want him in their life, you know? So I love that you're like, it's a personal choice. I've always shared faith with my kids by saying, hey, this is what I believe.

You have to decide for yourself what you believe. I'm curious, though, from you what your best advice is.

You know, there's probably parents and teachers listening to this, and I'd love to hear your best advice on having good, healthy, spiritual conversations with kids.

Wow. Yes.

I think part of this comes from personal experience as far as growing up, not necessarily work experience, but maybe there's a place where the two kind of meld. I think it's not always about asking the most important big questions, because I think we as adults can get really caught up on that.

Like, we have to know the right thing to say and the right answer to have a lot of. It's just listening. Because if there's anything I've learned from kiddos, they are ridiculously curious in such beautiful ways.

And kids love asking questions and they love getting answers. So I would just encourage just conversation in general, I think.

Yeah, don't get so caught up on, like I said, like, am I going to know the right thing to say? Am I going to answer this as well, as an ordained pastor with multiple years of experience would. It doesn't have to be that.

I think a lot of times we do this unfortunate thing where we make faith inaccessible, but it's for everybody, right? Like, we hear that time and time again throughout the gospel story and so many characters through the.

Throughout the Bible where they just had it wrong and thought, oh, you know, Jesus couldn't love me, I'm a sinner, or oh, Jesus can't love those people because they're not, you know, high and mighty like we are. So just making it accessible, just having those conversations, ask, you know, asking simple questions, you know, who do you think Jesus is?

What does he mean to you? When you think of Jesus, what do you think he's asking us to do for others or with others? And just really?

Yeah, I think getting to the heart of it, I think that's one of the things we had to shift in our culture at my church, because a lot of what I felt like we were teaching were like principles of good living, which isn't a wrong thing. It was like, be kind, share with others and those kinds of things, which are great.

But when we get to understanding the character of Jesus, then doing the things like being kind and sharing those will flow naturally, I think is what we, our hope is and what we've discovered.

I love that you're suggesting, not just telling kids about Jesus because I think we do a lot of telling people, this is Jesus, this is what you need to know. Like, here's all the doctrine, but you're actually asking.

And, and the reason why I think that's so cool is you're actually giving their voice value and giving them a spiritual voice to be able to be a part of the conversation and actually suggest that they might experience God in their very own unique way and that they can bring something to the table in a conversation about God. You know, I always think about Jesus saying, let the little come to me.

He also said, you know, have faith like a child, elevating the way we relate to and connect with God. And, you know, he chose to use a little boy in his lunch to feed 5,000 hungry humans.

We have a Bible study here at Clyde called Yesu that's all about that. And, and I say all of that because I love that Jesus valued children and used them to pull off amazing things even.

I'm curious how you see us often devaluing children in this, in spiritual spaces and how we can give them value. You mentioned asking questions, but what else?

Yeah, I think something that we do that can be incredibly hurtful is when we underestimate children. I think a lot of times we think we have to, for lack of a better term, dumb down the gospel.

Or we kind of omit things because we think, oh, they're not going to understand, they're too young, or they're just not going to comprehend it. They won't get it. Let's just not talk about that yet. Let's, you Know, maybe years from now we can get there, but we're not there yet.

And, you know, as an adult that doesn't like being left out, kids don't like being left out of things. I mean, how often if you're a parent, are you eating something and your kid wants. Just never seems like you can kind of do things alone, right?

And so I think that that's where we cause a lot of harm, is when we think to ourselves, like, oh, they're just not going to get it. Create spaces where, like I said, ask good questions. Let them question you.

Let them express, you know, how they feel about Jesus or what they want to know without questioning if they're just not going to get it. And yes, that's not to say let's use the biggest, hardest words just to lose them somewhere along the way.

But I think something that I've experienced is if there is a word that I use, and I go, okay, friends, today we're going to talk about Sabbath. Do we know what that means? No, we don't know what that means. Then we break it down from there.

Or, you know, it might be a kid going, oh, is that the day that we nap all day? Or whatever, you know? And you're like, well, yeah, it can be that. Let's talk about what else it means.

So, yeah, I think never feeling like you have to simplify things because you're afraid that kids might not get it. They might not get it initially.

That just creates more space to keep having conversation and letting that grow and asking more questions and giving more answers. Because, yeah, kids are. They're resilient, they're creative.

They have these really beautiful minds that oftentimes think in ways that we might not as adults. Maybe we did at one point, and we're just not there anymore.

And, yeah, I love asking kids questions because oftentimes I'll get answers where I go, you know, I never would have thought of that. Or they're asking me questions.

And I go, oh, yeah, Actually, I have to think about what the answer is to that, because I don't know that I've ever been asked that or asked myself that.

That's what I was going to ask you is, in your work with kids, what are you personally learning about God?

I think I'm personally learning that we are. We were designed by the Creator to be creative.

And I think that's something I love about kids, that they're not necessarily reserved when it comes to doing art projects or coloring or playing games, they think. So out of the box. And I think that just shows me, like, that. Yeah. Like, we were designed to be creative and God wants us to use that.

And when we think creatively, when we act creatively, that draws us nearer to him and then shows us more of his glory. And then I think, too, like,.

Kids.

Are so curious and in a lot of ways, unafraid. And I think it's been really eye opening and heart opening to be in a space where I don't consider myself a very meek person. I'm usually pretty bold.

But to still think that, like, small children can show you how to step out of your comfort zone and how to be unreserved and that when you mess up, that's okay. Like, there's second chances, there's third chances.

So I think in a lot of instances, like, kids have in many ways tangibly shown me what I think sometimes is hard for us to see because our God is not, you know, in physical form with us. But, yeah, just learning those lessons of, like, it's okay to mess up. It's okay to try new things.

It's okay to, like I said, step out of your comfort zone. It's great to be creative and be. Even do new creative things that you never thought you would do before. Yeah. And they're just funny.

They're just so funny.

I mean.

Yeah. And I think a lot of that, when I think of our kids being, like, unreserved, and they're not really, like, nervous or ashamed.

Like, they'll be dancing during music worship and totally fall on their face and get right back up. Like, nobody, you know, and they're not looking around going, oh, did anybody see that?

Oh, no.

I'm gonna go sit down now. I'm done for the day. Like, they just bounce right back.

So, yeah, just a lot of freedom, I think, to be who we were designed to be in all of our fun and in all of our flaws. Yeah. And I'm just reminded through kids, like, God has a great sense of humor.

Yes, he does. That's so true, Ellie. There's so many things you could be doing with your life, but you choose to do this work. What keeps you choosing it?

Oh, goodness. Yeah. So I've had a lot of experience with kids. I mean. Yeah. Sharing that. I grew up in a big household. Really.

Most of my jobs that I've ever kept involved kiddos.

And without getting into too much detail, because it is a little bit more of a personal story, there were some things that happened to me as a kid where I think in a lot of ways, I wish somebody could have been there to protect me. And so I would say part of it comes from that is kind of there's this desire and this want to create safe spaces for kids.

And not just safe in the sense of, like, they're physically safe and they are taken care of. They will get snack time when they're here. We will not leave them dehydrated. Like, yes, there is that.

But I think safe in the sense too, of, this is a space where you can share, where if you want to talk about something, if you have questions, if you just need to sit with somebody in quiet, like, this is a space for you.

So I would say that's a big part of the drive and just wanting kids to be able to be in a place where they're themselves and they don't have to worry if, oh, am I going to get hurt when I'm in here or something bad going to happen. And then I think another.

Another big part that really I only learned probably about a year ago is that when I sit and I think about, you know, because God gives us all gifts and talents and, okay, which ones has he given me?

Because I think traditionally, I always thought that meant, like, oh, I'm good at computer programming or, oh, I'm a really strong musician, like, those kinds of things. But I think we forget oftentimes about the spiritual giftings of, like, patience and thoughtfulness and resourcefulness. Like, there's so many. Right.

And I think it became apparent to me about a year ago that my calling and where I've been gifted is to love other people's children. So I think that that's a huge drive.

And I think sometimes if you're anybody that has kids, that works with kids, that wants kids someday, I think it's one of those things where we kind of say, like, oh, it might not be that hard. Like, anyone could do this. Right. Which I think we can also easily think, like, wrongfully think about a lot of other jobs.

But, no, I don't think that just anybody can, and not just anybody should, because, yeah, I could have any old, you know, schmo off the street come in and hang out with kids for an hour on a Sunday.

But to be people that actually want to invest, that are present, that aren't just, you know, gonna be sitting, playing on their phones, but are actually there saying, hey, I'm here for you. Yeah, I think it takes special hearts to love. To love little hearts, right? So, yeah, I would say those are the biggest drives for me.

Yeah.

Ellie, thank you for saying yes to God's calling on your life and trusting that he's using those gifts that he's given you to invest in kids and create safe spaces and remind them that they're loved. I am grateful for the work that you're doing and loved having this conversation.

From tattoos to glitter to how to have deep spiritual conversations with kids and show them that they matter. How can people connect with you if they want to after listening to this podcast?

Oh yes, so I can be reached via email and that's Ellie E L L I E F as in flower even though my last name is Fowler. So le F at CTK Church. So you can email me. I am on social media.

They're not professional platforms, but you can go ahead and find me on Instagram Leirene I R E N E which is my middle name or Facebook Ellie Fowler as well. Yeah, thank you. Feel free to reach out.

I love answering questions and reading emails and I'm also a huge fan of snail mail so if you ever want to like send me your your address via my email. I love writing letters. I love using fun stickers. Don't be surprised if there is confetti in that letter when it comes to you.

But yes, I think you just literally got a long to do list of letters that you are going to Ellie thank you for being on the podcast today and for those of you listening, I hope that you keep colliding with Jesus and when he asked you to have childlike faith, I hope that that's an invitation that brings you joy and a freedom and a reminder that you are deeply loved by this author as you are as his kid today. Keep colliding. We'll catch you next week.

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