Episode Intro:

Ever find yourself constantly ruminating over a comment where you felt criticized, still fuming over that driver that gave you the finger on your way to work, really down over that disappointing performance review, and hypersensitive over what felt like a disappointed look towards you from your boss. Do you, like me, tend to brush off compliments, focus on the poor grade you received instead of the good ones, and look to the next goal without really recognizing and celebrating the one you just accomplished???? You are not alone.

It’s actually an evolutionary thing and one that guest Cheryl Brewster has delved into to find not only the “why” but also tools that we can be using to stop negativity bias in its tracks – we need to be modelling this – because when we help ourselves, we also help those we lead – and love!

Join us to learn more!!!

About Cheryl Brewster:

As a Transition Specialist, Transformational Speaker, and Spiritual Mentor, Cheryl inspires individuals and organizations keen to make big differences in the world, to find the hidden treasure within challenge.  

Cheryl’s story is one of extraordinary trust and the ability to ride the waves of change. In 2004 she left a successful career in the corporate world to “follow a calling” and founded The Intuitive Life to provide intuitive consultations, workshops, and training to both individuals and organizations.

In 2010 a family health crisis plunged her deep into her own “dark night of the soul,” testing every ounce of her faith and stamina. As a result, Cheryl discovered that with the right mindset, severe challenges can be catalysts for powerful, positive change.

Widely respected for her talents and abilities, Cheryl possesses the rare gift of inspiring the best in people and organizations for better outcomes, communication, connection, and resiliency.

Through her intuitive consultations, workshops, seminars, speaking, and coaching programs, she works with individuals and business groups to foster empowered decision making, creativity, improved working relationships and practical, strategies for meaningful, creative solutions.

Over the course of her career as a personal and business intuitive, Cheryl has consulted with and coached, executives and leaders in social and business projects, including company directors, naturopaths, entrepreneurs, local government, and small business.

Clients who work with Cheryl come away inspired, transformed and fully committed to living the deeper meaning of their lives with increased clarity, confidence, and self-trust.

Connect with Cheryl:

Email:           Cheryl@TheIntuitiveLife.com

Website:       https://theintuitivelife.com/

Facebook:    https://www.facebook.com/TheIntuitiveLife

LinkedIn:      https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherylbrewster1/

Facebook:    https://www.facebook.com/IntuitiveCelebrations

Twitter:         https://twitter.com/IntuitiveCheryl

About the Host:

Susan has worked with people all her life. As a human resource professional, she has specialized in all aspects of employment, from hiring to retirement. She got her start as a national representative for a large Canadian union. After pursuing an undergrad degree in business administration, Susan transitioned to HR management, where she aspired to bring

both employee and management perspectives to her work. Susan holds a Master of Arts degree in Leadership and Training. She retired from her multi-decade career in HR to pursue writing and consulting, and to be able, in her words, to “colour outside the lines.” She promises some fun and lots of learning through this podcast series. 

Susan is also the author of the book Leadership Inside Out: Effecting Change from

Within available on Amazon – click below. 

Leadership Inside Out: Effecting Change from Within: Ney, Susan G: 9781777030162: Books - Amazon.ca

If you wish to contact Susan, she can be reached through any of the following:

Website:          Home - Effecting Change from Within

Email:               susangney@gmail.com

Linked In:         www.linkedin.com/in/susan-ney-197494

Facebook:        www.facebook.com/susan.ney.5/

Phone:            (604) 341-5643

Thanks for listening!

It means so much that you listened to this podcast!  If you know of anyone else who might find this series of interest, please share. If you have questions about this episode, please send me an email at susangney@gmail.com

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Hi. Welcome to the podcast HR inside out. I'm your

host Susan Bay. And my guest today is Cheryl Brewster, a

reinvention specialist. And I'm going to tell you a little bit

more about Sheryl. First of all, welcome.

Thank you, Susan.

For our listeners who are expecting this to be a

podcast on work different 10 truths for winning in the people

age. Kate bravery will be joining us on the march podcast,

not this month as originally anticipated. So hopefully you'll

join in next month. But today, we are very, very lucky to have

Cheryl here. And she's going to talk to us about something that

can so easily get in the way of our being able to present our

very best that of negativity bias. So Cheryl, I can't wait to

dive in. But first of all, I'd like to say a little bit about

you if you're okay with that. transition specialist at

transformational speaker a spiritual mentor. Cheryl

inspires individuals and organizations keen to make a big

difference in the world, and to find the hidden treasure in

challenge. Now Cheryl's story is one of extraordinary trust and

the ability to ride the waves of change. In 2004, she left a

successful career in the corporate world to follow a

calling. She at that point founded the intuitive life and

through that provides intuitive consultations, workshops,

seminars, speaking and coaching programs. She works to foster

empowered decision making encourages creativity, improved

working relationships, and practical strategies for

meaningful and creative solutions. Now, in 2010, a

family health crisis plunged Cheryl, deep into her own dark

night of the soul, testing every ounce of her faith and her

stamina. As a result, Cheryl discovered with the right

mindset, severe challenges can be catalysts to both powerful

and positive change. She is widely respected for her talents

and abilities, she possesses a rare gift of inspiring the very

best in both people and organizations, finding better

outcomes communication, connection and resiliency. She

has over the course of her career, consulted and coached

individuals, executives, leaders, and social and business

projects, company directors, naturopaths entrepreneurs, the

list goes on. clients who've worked with Cheryl come away,

inspired, transformed and fully committed to living the deeper

meaning of their lives with increased clarity, confidence

and self trust. And I know that that's certainly been my

experience with her. I also know that she's a lifelong learner.

And I know that she's currently working on her instructional

diploma. And through that she shared some research from one of

the assignments that she has been doing, it certainly caught

my attention. And so I asked her to join us and talk more about

her learning and her insights. Starting with Cheryl, if we

could, what is negativity bias? And then let's move to like

jumping right in? Why is it so important for us to understand

this? And what are some tools that we should be having in our

toolkits to actually deal with it? So I am so excited to learn

about this. And to share that with our listeners, over to you

please, enough for me.

Well, thank you so much for having me as a

guest, I appreciate the work that you're doing and really

inspiring people in working communities and you know, just

to lead from their best selves. So I think negativity bias is

hugely important to understand because it does have a

biological physical component that I think is easy to forget.

Because, you know, if we look at negativity bias, it's related to

worry, fear, you know, anxiety and in all those, what I call

the hairball of the soul emotions. So, what I appreciated

in my research was the neuroscience behind what it is

and where it evolves from. So basically, scientists believe

that we have a built in negativity bias from you know,

the brain is concerned, especially the the left

hemisphere of the brain is concerned with keeping the body

safe. So it literally goes on overdrive, it's looking looking

for the threats to keep us safe. So if that's not kind of

balanced out with the right hand side of the brain, the creative

side, the you know, the side that sees the bigger picture, we

can get ourselves into real Trouble. So from the research

that I found it a really good metaphor to think of it this

way, that, you know, we evolved over millions of years, and we

were dodging threats. So if you think of dodging sticks, we were

dodging threats, and we were chasing food or chasing carrot.

So it's a lot more, it's more important to notice and react to

remember the threats or the sticks than it is, you know, the

comfort or the carrots. So, in the tough environments our

ancestors lived, they missed out on the carrot, right. So we got

in the habit of not noticing the carrots, and instead focusing on

these threats. And before you know it, whoa, we have in our

genetic DNA, this this propensity to look for the

negative and what you look for, you'll find. So negativity bias

will show up in many ways, in relationships, it usually now

the stats are interesting, it usually takes five good

interactions to make up for a single bad one. And what can

happen in relationship, things can be going really well. And if

you're not used to that you will create you will sub self

sabotage. So that's why I think it's so important that we really

understand, you know, get to the bottom of this so that we don't

keep creating these repeating patterns. So in business, you

know, people will work work much harder to avoid losing $100, as

opposed to making $100. So we're kind of selling ourselves short

by focusing on the negative and painful experiences are much

more memorable than pleasurable ones. So we kind of want to

reverse that. And a good way of looking at negativity bias is

that the brain is kind of pre programmed to look for the

negative and find it, it's like Velcro. It finds it, it

remembers it, it holds it fast. Whereas pleasurable experiences

are like Teflon, they just slide right off. It's like, yeah,

okay, that was great. But we don't really take the time to

go, wow, that was really good. So we can create these very

negative self images, the stories we tell ourselves, and

goals will come and go, and we'll achieve the goal. But have

we really grown? Or are we simply repeating the pattern of

needing to prove ourselves. So I've certainly appreciated what

I've learned about negativity bias, because it creates

awareness, when you have awareness, you have choice. Now,

there's one more piece I want to add on negativity bias, when I

researched it further, I came across a term that I just loved,

it was called negative legacy emotions. And they use the

example of cocaine on the brain that irrational guilt shame. And

anxiety is kind of like a drug on the brain, it just totally

takes you out of your, your prefrontal cortex, where you

make executive decision making, and instead, we get a cloudy

mind. We're not trusting ourselves, we're feeling

insecure, that can that can really escalate and cause some

real problems. And we can see that in the workplace where, for

example, in the conflict resolution that I'm teaching

right now, it's like, whoa, like, where did that come from?

Right? On understanding or appreciating that, you know,

someone in the workplace, if their knee jerk reaction is not

checked, there will be problems. So we want to be very aware of

how we can handle those conflicts from the inside out,

which is okay, you know, what am I feeling using mindfulness

techniques, etc. So, the nuts and bolts is that, in order for

us to really work with this, there's a real opportunity here,

which I think is very exciting. So we take a look at these

negative legacy, Legacy emotions, because they're

irrational. And one of the terms that I found that I just loved

is that these are pre historic emotions. And they have no place

in our our current lives. And so we have to create an absolute,

uncompromising rule, to not take orders from irrational guilt,

shame and anxiety. So what that means is, we need to create a

habit of embedding optimism in the brain. So we can talk more

about that but for now, that's why I think it's so important

the more we know and understand, the more we can not take this

quite so personally, when you know that there's a biology at

play or you know, guilt is a pretty insidious emotion because

you're trying to do better and be, you know, your best self and

when you find your You're not that unreviewable rule of nope,

I'm not going to listen to the voice wants to, you know, put me

down. It's like this open and shut rule. Like this door, that

slam says nope, nope, not allowed to enter. So. And this

is where I think that we can really create opportunity by

using the power of decision to make that rule. And then to also

make the rule that I am committed to living my best

self. And, you know, mistakes are a part of learning. So when

we look for the learning, we have growth, but if we're not

willing to do that, then we're gonna stay stagnant. In fact,

we're gonna go down, because we're designed to grow. And if

we're not willing to, you know, to use this in a productive way,

we're kind of, we're kind of toast.

That makes so much sense. And I love the, the

skeleton, the, the Velcro, I just, I think of performance

reviews, you know, and how, I don't know that people hear so

many of the positives if there's something that's a growth

opportunity, and and how so frequently, we perceive that

it's just a negative. Yeah, you're in, you're right, you

reaching the goals, I don't know that we pat ourselves about the

milestones we do tend to focus on, you know, the things that

went wrong. I mean, there's that there's a positive about that,

because it's the learning and the, what could we do

differently or better next time. But as you talk, and what I love

is learning that this is all part of this is part of, like,

literally years and years and years and years of programming.

And we really reflect that also within our school systems. You

know, I know my dad caught the sea, and the, you know, good

marks, and then you get a bad mark, or what happened here. And

so we do tend to reinforce that. But again, that would be

natural, because that's been our heritage. So what I'm hearing

you say is that, yeah, it's natural that we'd be feeling

this this negativity bias. But what we need to be paying

attention to is catching ourselves doing it, recognizing

where it's coming from, and then making a choice to do

differently going forward.

Exactly. Yeah. So knowing that we're kind of

pre programmed, it's like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm going

to be aware that I don't have to keep doing this.

When you shared with me a PowerPoint presentation for

one of the classes that that you're doing, and you talked

about the importance of reflection, and that's, that's

part of this catching yourself and recognizing is like, I don't

have to keep going down the same, the same road with this

stuff. And you You referenced, I don't know who do he is, but you

talked about Dewey's four criteria for reflection. And

it's very much a self awareness piece, probably the emotional

intelligence as well. Can you tell us a little bit more about

what are these four criteria that in that reflecting process

we should be paying attention to?

Absolutely. John Dewey was the probably the

most influential figure in the past century in regards to

education. So he, he's a, it was fascinating to research his

life. And basically, the four criteria for reflection that he

came up to is, and the reason reflection is so important is

that number one, it creates a bridge of meaning. And so what

it does is that it helps us make continuity of learning possible,

it ensures that progress, so we learn from our mistakes. So we

we keep moving forward, or we learn, you know, hey, that went

really well. I'll do that again. So the first thing is, is it's

the bridge of meaning. And when we find meaning, you know,

that's, that's basically our values come alive. It's what

keeps us alive. So I really appreciated that as I did the

research and did my own reflective writing practices for

the class and then share that PowerPoint. We something that

John Dewey said is that experiences don't transform us.

It's reflecting on the experiences that transform. So

from my own experience of working deeper with a reflective

process, it's true, like I was amazed and very grateful to go

deeper into my own reflection because I I've found a lot of

insight that I would have missed otherwise. So number one, the

bridge of meeting number two, the reflection is systematic,

rigorous, disciplined, and rooted in scientific inquiry.

And I like that too, because it's literally about telling the

truth to yourself. And, you know, that's a courageous act,

which ties into the scale of consciousness, which is a

different matter. But the, the work of David Hawkins, where all

the negative emotion that we're dealing with, as soon as we have

courage, we rise up that scale of consciousness, we rise up

that scale of emotion. And I think that really ties into this

because even though you might have a really negative emotion

that you're feeling, it's like, it's okay, this is part of

evolution, this is part of growth. So it becomes a very

empowered way of making true change in your life. So that's

the second criteria for reflective inquiry, which is

that it's systematic, it's rigorous, it's disciplined, it's

not this fluffy stuff. The third thing is that it needs now this

was fascinating. It needs to happen in community. Oh,

interesting. Yeah, that I love that because you know, me, I

teach all the classes, everyone sharing, but so the third

criteria is that needs to happen in community in interaction with

others. And then the fourth one that that ties into that is that

it requires attitudes that value the personal and the

intellectual growth of self and others. So Fascinating, isn't

it, that in order for true transformation to occur, you

need to reflect on it, and then you need to share it.

So the community piece, because that can be

tough, especially if you're dealing with stuff that you're

not feeling comfortable with? What what might that look like

in a work environment? But that'd be with a colleague,

would that be? I guess it would be situational. But can you

think of an example? Yeah,

well, in a, in a work environment, you know,

and I think that this comes back to how we do anything is how we

do everything, whether it's a person or an organization. So I

think the first question is to be aware, like, how am I

feeling? Do I feel like I'm in a threatening situation, because

our lens will color our perception. So in a work

situation, it's okay, if I'm telling the truth to myself,

then having the skill set to be able to communicate that truth

to somebody else in a mutually respectful way. So this is

where, you know, we have nonviolent communication. And we

also I think, have a piece of emotional intelligence here,

which is to say, you don't know what's going on in someone's

day. And remembering that negativity bias, kind of is a is

a real clue to how personally am I taking this? Take this as

personally as I am. And I think that's where we really get into

trouble.

And love the reminder too, that we really don't know

what's happening on somebody else's world. Yeah. And yeah,

are part of self awareness. And I would think reflection would

be one of the tools to deal with negativity bias, you talk about

a number of other tools that are very helpful for people when

they are finding themselves in kind of that space.

Yeah. So what I did in my PowerPoint was put

together, okay, these are quick, fast, easy tools that have a

scientific basis for them. They work based in science. So the

first thing is to breathe. You know, and just that, that breath

that sort of three breaths just to slow down the physiology.

Now, here's the interesting thing about negative emotion is

that bang, before you know it, it's there. Like it's fast. So,

so a big part of reflection then is reviewing your day, what went

well? What would you do differently? And also to

rehearse if that situation happened again, how would you

handle it this time? And that goes a long way in really

supporting effective conflict resolution, because at the end

of the day, you know, sure people make mistakes, but we all

make mistakes. And I think a great way of looking at how

personally we take things is you know, It often says more about

us than it does the other person. Because you're in charge

of your destiny, not somebody else. True. Oh. So catch

yourself know that the negativity bias is going to be

there. And course correct as fast as you can. And how do you

do that? Number one, the breath. And number two, I love this

exercise, letting the good in. So again, if we go back to

positive, negative bias and emotion, the other example to

use is, when good things happen to you, it's kind of like water

going through a sieve in the brain, it just goes right

through, you're not noticing, because you're not our genetics

are trained, trained not to notice. Whereas if it's

something negative, it's like a chunk of coal, it's in that

sieve, and it, it's a big one. And so. So the thing to do then

is to take 1020 30 seconds, Max doesn't take long to let the

good in. So to notice what was good about your life that day,

and not only to notice it, but use that 10 or 20 seconds to

just really breathe and, and savor it. Like Like, even right

now, we all did that and just went, Yeah, that was good today,

that didn't feel good today. And it's incredibly fast. So the

science is saying do that six times a day, you're embedding

positive, you're embedding the good, you're noticing the good

more, which means that your quality of your experience is

increasing as well. So when you feel better, you're more

optimistic, you're looking for the good, you're more creative,

the prefrontal cortex is free. It's not bogged down, you have

access to it, which is really important for decision making.

And you know, post COVID, our whole worlds got changed upside

down. We're still dealing with it. So just a reminder, hey, you

know what you met, we all went through something big. And so

it's like, again, it can be that knee jerk reaction where if you

had something traumatic happen, you're on guard, you're looking

for it. And so you want you want to balance that out. And you

also want to recognize that negativity bias will promote

worry, and worry will promote a loss of trust in yourself, and

lead to those feelings of low self esteem. And, and I think

the big one too, is we can fall into compromising ourselves, and

feeling incompetent. And you know, back in the corporate

world, I should remember sitting at my desk, you know, I used to

work with bills, material and sales, and I'm worried about the

formulas Did I do the math, right? And, man, I'd be sitting

there literally having a quiet panic attack, looking around

everyone else going open, they're so calm. I'm the only

one right? Well, it's like, and so I did a real number on myself

way back then. And it was needless and painful. So

painful. So it's like, okay, I appreciate that, yes, we will go

through pain. So let's give it a productive purpose. So we can

change the pattern, we could transform that pattern, we can

evolve it, we can grow it.

And I suspect, as you say, with this being all well

documented in scientific research now, that the more you

do something like that, where you catch yourself and you, you

take a look at the positive or you allow the positive in that

you really are building more neural transmitters or whatever

they're called, so that it becomes easier to do it with

with practice.

Exactly. And that's why it's so exciting.

Because, I mean, we've been hearing about the neuroscience

for years, what wires together fires together. And the truth

is, it's like wow, okay, I am actually physically changing my

brain by doing this. And so this, this rule, we're like, you

know, what do I really want because the clearer we are and

and that was a really interesting piece to discover in

the research as well. Do we give ourselves permission to know

what it is we really want? And, and part of the research so they

did to which is the next component is the power of all

and wonder.

I want to hear more about that. I just, I'd heard

So, instead of just saying, how was your day? What good happened

to you today? You know, if we started to greet one another

with tell me something good that's happened to your you

know, if you're a mom, with your kids coming coming home from

school, what good happened to you today instead of, you know,

how was your day again would start to build that muscle and

to make that more natural, and just yeah, just feels good even

saying it. Okay. Okay, let's, let's go the water and I'm

getting excited.

Yeah, cuz you know what wonder and awe are

juicy. And it's like, Who wouldn't want that? And it's,

it's, it's our birthright, you know, as much as we're wired

with a negativity bias. We're also wired for happiness and joy

and peace of mind. And, and I, it's just a reminder that that

they go together and the wonder and the awe will put us back

into, you know, the balance of both sides of the brain. So the

research I'm wondering is, is the I mean, look at Einstein,

and Imagination is more important than knowledge. When

we go into the wonder and the awe, it reminds me of, you know,

when you're a kid, and you don't want to mow the lawn, and but if

there's a good looking guy next door, it's like, yeah, oh, no.

Like, suddenly, we have the energy for it. And, and, you

know, that's one of the things that I really appreciate about

you. And what you've always done in your career is, is look for,

you know, Where's where's juice here? What's different, what's

unique, because as soon as we find that, that's what spurs

learning because it's different. And that's the other side of the

brain of it. You know, the other side of the brain too, is that

loves to learn. It loves to know what's new. So, wonder and awe,

like using our imagination, which is a part of

transformational learning. So that like, I wonder, I wonder

what that would be like. And, yeah, like, I was playing with

this today. It's like, ah, if I was my future self right now,

what would I be doing? And what how would I be thinking and and

the cool piece on that too. Benjamin Hardy love Benjamin

Hardy for anyone out there who you know, wants to kind of be up

to the science of all of this, too. He's a he's a psychologist

and in behavior and management and all those good things. In

his book 10x is easier than 2x. He talks about, you know, you

define your past by the present. I thought that was very good. We

define our past by the present, because the present, when you

look back at your past, well, which way do you want to look at

it? When you look at it from what did I learn? How did I

grow? How different Am I than I was before? It's like, it's

huge. There's good stuff there, right? So the wonder in the eye

is, well, well, look how much I've learned, look how much I've

grown, if I could do that way back then. And with what I know

now, like, anything is possible. What do I really want, which

gets us back into, into desire, wanting to do something for the

sheer joy of it. And when that is involved, now, I think we're

talking, okay, things are happening now. And that's where

I think some of our great thought leaders, some of our

great inventors, it's like, let's, let's have fun again.

You've mentioned mindfulness, and it really is

about stopping, being in the moment. And I just love that

because, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of

different places I've worked and just, you know, some of them

happier experiences and others, but I've met phenomenal people.

And I've had, you know, there there have been times where I

got stretched, but because of that stretch then doing that at

the next organization wasn't such a challenge. So yes,

looking back and and, you know, changing your perception of some

of the things that we would otherwise beat ourselves up

over, you know, I could have done better, you know, just, oh

my goodness, you know, if I'd only had the experience that I

have now, when I tried to deal with that situation. We're

really good at beating ourselves up. But that was all part of the

learning experience and, and why we are who we are today. So

those you write those are really important. Got it. It does take

it does take some time to just think right to, instead of just

be caught up in the whirlwind of, of your past of rec,

spending some time and recognizing the absolute

positive suppose, and looking at them as positives.

Exactly asking yourself, What? What can I learn

from this? What's the value in this? And, you know, I think

that's the, there's a real humility piece here, I think

that's important to talk about. Because when when we recognize

there is something in our life that isn't working, as well as

we'd like it to. The humility piece is, is thank you for

letting me know.

Yeah, yeah. You also talked about the use of

metaphors and the importance of metaphors, can you share a

little bit more of that with our listeners? And what I'm saying,

you talked about, it's been Cheryl was talking to me before

about some of the research that she was doing?

Yeah, well, you know, and again, like, who knew

I, sometimes these concepts or terms, you know, because we're,

they've been around for years, we forget the meaning of them.

And we forget how powerful they are. So, metaphors help the mind

because the mind sees in pictures, not in words. So

that's where, you know, Plato, back in the day came up with the

cave metaphor, where, you know, you, there's shadows on the

cave, and you're looking at the shadows on the cave, and then

you see the light and you're, you're you're you're scared to

go out because of all this activity, when, you know, it's

it was just a shadow on on the cave wall. So that's an example

of a metaphor. And, you know, the the research is that

psychologists and neurologists, both of them, tell us that we

use metaphors to make sense of our lives. So kind of like

reflection, it's the meaning it's the bridge. Now, the cool

thing about metaphors is that they're absorbed directly by the

subconscious mind. And that's why, for example, in the work

with with that I do with with hypnosis is going straight into

the unconscious mind. What I love about metaphor and teaching

is this. Ask yourself, if there was a fairy tale or a myth that

I'm living, which one would it be? What would I pick? And now

take it straight into your unconscious. And then from

there, you can explore the different characters in the myth

or this story. I remember way back when when I did this years

ago, I first thing that popped up was, you know, the, the, the

ugly duckling because that's how I felt at the time I felt gawky,

I felt awkward. And I think it's important to talk about this

because in learning, there will always be the distressing

dilemma. So so if we can reframe the distress that we feel with

change because the brain gets alerted, because it's it likes

patterns. And now you're in a situation that you've not been

in before. So the brain gets fired up, because it's looking

for the pattern. So that's why these mindful awareness

techniques are so powerful, because they take pre existing

information. You add, which is a pattern, you add some new

information. And now you have a bigger viewpoint, greater Vista,

which means you have greater choice. And that's the power of

metaphor, because it helps you see things differently. And

which ties into open mindset or learner's mindset and closed

mindset. And I find this really fascinating. And I love, I love

to know, that if there's something in my life that I find

limiting or restrictive, or something that hurts that I have

the power to work with it, I do have the power to change it.

Because that power is inside of me. But I may not be aware of

it, or I may have forgotten it because you know, our power can

be unconscious too. And we're not consciously aware of it or

using it. So now if we look at the pain of, you know,

existential pain, or whatever you want to call it, it's like

wait a minute. What if it's not so bad? After all, what if it's

just growth wanting to happen? What if I've outgrown myself and

now it's time for something more? So, you know, there's one

part of the brain that wants to comfort and then the other part

of the brain is going yeah, let's go And so then you get

this dilemma right this push pull. So bottom line and I love

the work of of G's for name escapes me right now give it to

you for the show notes. But DUAC Carol Dweck wrote a book on

mindset. And the difference between the two. And that in a

closed mindset, it's like, and this is where the unconscious

comes in. We don't even realize how close we are. So when a

difficult situation comes along, and this is where there's power

in adversity, that if we can use adversity to grow from, it'll

help us own our power in a way that really cuts to the chase.

So the bigger picture and a learner's mindset goes, Okay, I

don't like what's happened, but you know, what, I'm gonna look

for the good in it. And I'm going to, I'm going to use it to

grow. And the research has shown, especially with kids in

school, that when we have an open mindset, we get better and

better at transforming closed mindset, where, even though it

may be hard, we can we can actually enjoy the process, we

can have fun with it. So that's why I really appreciate what

you're up to here with your podcast, your podcast is a

demonstration of learners mindset, right? I

just love the fun part of it.

And if we can make learning fun, man, then

then we can make change fun. And that's that's transformation.

Yeah,

yeah. No, that's wonderful. Hey, I also noted the

word optimism. And I think he kind of spoken of of that. But

anything else you wanted to share on optimism as part of the

tool in the toolkit, when you're dealing with negative mindset?

Or is was that specifically about catching yourself and

looking at? What else might be going on?

Yeah, yeah, there's there's an important

component here on optimism. And I, again, in the research that I

did, I found a study that they did, I think it was in the

Netherlands, where they did an optimist intervention. And what

they did was for two weeks, they had people really work with

optimism, and, and they had imagery of what their future

self and two weeks would look like. So the research showed,

and I mean, everyone felt better. And they they, you know,

did things that they maybe wouldn't have done in the two

weeks. But what was interesting, and the research was that the

people who focused every day on the outcome of that future self

that they were creating, actually did far more than just

the people who who use positive imagery on a day to day

activities. Interesting. So I thought that was interesting. So

Seligman, who was the father of, or the founder of positive

psychology, had this to say, and I think it's worth repeating.

You have to embed optimism in your brain through the power of

non negative thinking. So optimism is a choice. And it can

be taught, as you know, the research shows. And the reason

why it's stressed is because it does change the brain. And it's

what keeps us healthy, you know, in all the research that they're

doing with dementia, and in you know, the, the effect of the

body, our health. You know, it's hugely important. And back in

the day, I'll never forget, but I'm, I'm aging myself here, but

Norman Vincent Peale, saying, he was talking about positive

thinking is saying, Look, don't think that this is pollyannish.

It takes grit, grit, and courage and muscles to live this way.

This, this is a courageous path. And an important one, because if

we don't live it, then the very meaning of our lives gets lost.

And at the end of the day, you know, it's like that quote that

goes, yeah, by the time I'm done, I'm on a skid with the

dust. Wow, what a ride.

And I think it's really important to be talking

about this because there's just so much happening in our world

that it Yeah, it can take people out and to be cognizant of

what's going on and having these tools to to make the Come

different, to make our thinking process different is so

important. So very important. I think particularly right now.

I agree, you know, I think, you know, reminds

me that, you know, when we've had something hard happen, kind

of knocked the wind out of our sails, right. And so to catch

ourselves and say, okay, and to recognize the signs, you know,

what I, I, I need to look at this, I need to work with this.

And because the joy does return. And it's, it's a process of

discovery, and it is a process of decision. And I like to think

of, I like to think of all of these tools is, is being

muscles. And one of the studies I found to Susan was, it was

talking about reflection, and was saying how, you know, the

the mind is like a muscle. And the reflection is what

replenishes that reflection is what gives it a rest and kind of

rejuvenates it. And our brain is uses up 20% of our energy,

that's a lot for muscle loss. And so, so that's why you know,

if you've been focused for a long period of time, get up and

take a breather, or go get a breath of fresh air or my

favorite, and I love this, and I have to tell you, when one

participant in a recent practicum that was doing and,

you know, she just isn't Cheryl, I just don't get it, I just, you

know, I just don't get that stuff. And she says, How can you

have so many happy people in here? And then I said, Well, you

know, oh, and she said, the homework is to dance. Are you

kidding me? So, so I said, Well, here's the research will so you

know what? She tried it and she just it that she came back to be

lame. She said, that changed my life? Wow.

Yeah. Wow. Hey, a lot of our listeners are people who

have responsibility for other people, they oversee other

people. So any thoughts on, you know, other than modeling this

yourself, you know, as a leader? Any thoughts on what somebody

could do when they see that someone on their team? Perhaps

is struggling with negative negativity bias? Or, you know,

some of what we've talked about today?

Yeah, I think that, especially with teams, a

couple of things, number one, you know, the, the Compassionate

communication, which is, hey, you know, you're, you're

everything, okay? No, just checking in everything, okay,

you know, to keep it factual, and to also invite conversation

so that, you know, at the end of the day, it's always about

connection. So that would be my first response, I was going

everything, okay, and, you know, just checking in. And then my

second response would be, to introduce reflection into the

workplace. In a study that they did out of India, Harvard

Business did a study. And it was a call center, and they were

having a hard time keeping staff. And so they they did a

study, and they introduced the reflection piece, and one study

group, reflected after training, they gave them time to reflect

on the training. The second study group, not only did they

reflect it was written reflection and sharing. And then

the third study group, there was no change. So in both groups

that reflected the one that did the written reflection, and the

sharing increased productivity by 25%. The second, the second

group was just over, it was almost 23%. So between the two

50% improvement in performance and in production. So I think

this is a really valuable tool that is not utilized at all in

and, on another study that I researched, the executive said

that what made the difference between being mediocre, and

being, you know, stellar, was that reflection piece. So in the

workplace, I think there's a real opportunity here to create

something really exciting. That only not only improves

performance and efficiency in the bottom line but improves the

quality of people's experience. And when you have that, like, I

mean, there's one boss that I had, his staff would have done

anything for him. Because he, he, he not only modeled it, but

he invited it from his stuff. And, you know, to this day, you

know, I just, I'm very touched by this person who, to me really

represented. True, true leadership. Wow.

And turning to these tools and situations,

friendships or conversations with family members, any

thoughts? I think I probably know the answer. But are they as

applicable in sort of non work situations where you see

somebody struggling?

Absolutely. You know, we we really don't know

what's happening for someone. And, you know, I, and

especially, I think, you know, as I get older, and I, you know,

I had some health stuff up come myself last year, and I remember

going in the day before surgery going, you know, what, I, this

could be the last time I do this, this could be the last

time I am in this home, this could be my last car ride. And

this is where I think slowing things down is really important.

And there's a false perception out there. And I know that I've

experienced this in my life, Oh, I gotta get this done. I gotta

do this, go do that. It's like, no, no, no, you actually don't.

What's most important that goes back to that 8020 rule? What's

most important? Am I living my life that way? And again,

there's courage involved. And the currency I think, is trust

and faith. And really slowing down to saying Am, Am I taking

care of what's most important? Using that rigorous scientific

inquiry? Tell the truth? No, I'm not okay. It feels a lot better

when I do. Then I'm in integrity, then you know what,

the day that comes when I'm not on this planet anymore. All know

that I could have left this earth. Doing everything that I

could have to contribute to myself and to others. And I said

to a client today, she wanted you know, she's going through a

lot of transition doesn't know what to do. And I said to her,

and she said, the one thing she realized and she wanted was, she

wanted to do good in the world. And I said, in order for you to

be to do good in the world, you have to do good to yourself.

Yeah, I sure believe that. Yeah.

So yeah, this is whether it's personal or

professional, it's the bottom line is, wherever you go, there

you are. Yeah,

and a huge piece of leadership, whether it be small

l er, or big L leadership. I want to before we begin, bring

the podcast to a close, talk a little bit more about the term

that you use, transformational learning, and why this is such

an important piece of all of what we've talked about. You've

talked a little bit about it, but just any any other nuggets.

Yep. The I guess the one nugget that really

stands out for me is that transformational learning, we'll

always start out with a distressing dilemma.

And we get lots of those lives because we get so

much

this is this is this is a signal of growth,

right? I like that part. So the you know, and there's many

different theories and models out there. The the one that I

was studying was was Mazur house, transformational and was

basically 10 phases. And I love the first two phases that yes,

there's going to be a distressing dilemma. And, you

know, it's like, that's okay. It's like, Oh, can we remember

that? You know, what part of part of being distressed is?

It's a biofeedback signal saying, hey, you know what, you

know, get back, get back to your core, get back to your core.

It's okay. The second phase is again, the reflection piece. And

then from there, there's there's this progression. So

transformational learning is being able to look at the

pattern in your life record. Notice that you have been

spiraling up with it. And also recognizing how much further

along than you were like five years ago, 10 years ago, and

that you've accomplished and grown perhaps much more than

you've given yourself credit for. So take those 20 seconds of

letting the good in. And that gives you more space. So that in

the next thing it is you have to do, you're bringing the the

appreciation of life into it. And I think if we all did that

more, imagine the amount of conflict that would simply

dissolve, literally immediately. And that's the other part of

transformational learning that I like, is that it offers

immediate emotional relief. And as soon as we have that, then

the courage to do the things perhaps that we've been avoiding

is there, or the insight or the clarity? Makes

a lot of the smoke out? Yeah. diffuses. Yeah. Yeah.

If it sounds like you're starting from a different base

to, you know, just the next time something comes along, then

you're, as you say, building the muscle better able to handle it.

And all of that is being observed by all the people in

your life.

Yes, and you know, I got a Valentine from

someone today. And, you know, I have to tell you this story,

just quickly, I know, we're probably at a time here. But,

you know, she shared with me that she had been considering

taking her life. And she had come to one of my workshops, it

was the first workshop and intuition I'd ever done. And I

was as nervous as heck I tell you. And she told me years

later, you know, because there was something you said in that

workshop. And I realized I didn't have to make that, that

decision. Wow. So she sent me a Valentine. Just in, you know,

connection and appreciation. And and, you know, here was my

reflective learning from that experience was, even though I

felt that, you know, as my first presentation, I was nervous, I

could have done things differently. Just the fact that

I showed up, made a big change in someone's life. And I and I,

this recent experience of taking these courses, you know what, it

really brought it, it slowed me down, to remind me Cheryl, where

are you being too hard on yourself? Where are you trying

to do too much? Where are you not keeping things simple? And

where are you not bringing the the quality of life that you

really, really want to live? So I think we all need these

reminders. And just because someone looks happy to happy

doesn't mean they're not going through stuff and doesn't mean

you know, we are constantly growing. So let us grow with

hope, with optimism. And most of all, let us grow with grace.

Because at the end of the day, we're all doing our best. Life

is precious. Life was short, Let's appreciate ourselves.

Because then we appreciate each other. And now we can make magic

happen because the on the wonder of life. That's what we're all

here for. So to bring that into our workday.

Pretty cool. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like okay.

And then so it just absolutely so important that we

talk about this, and we share the learning and we share the

tools and we talk about what we're seeing in other people and

using gentle language, watching for those opportunities. And

that this we do something to stop the, the potential that

negativity bias has on who we are, and I've seen it take

people out. And I've also watched you and you've had a

number of challenges that you have presented themselves and I

have watched you use these tools, so it was really cool to

watch you then see this. Learn the science behind all the way

you you know, I know from watching you The tools work and

I know from watching you work with your clients how effective

these tools are. So, so appreciate you saying yes to my

request to come and talk to all of us. And me too, because I'm,

I'm a lifelong learner as well, and always learning from you.

And thank you to our listeners for also being interested in

being transformational learners and doing something with these

negative Nellies that that often get in our way and create havoc

in our lives. We know we can do something about these. Cheryl,

you have referenced a number of great resources, through your

sharing with us, I will make sure that I get that information

from Dewey and some of the other ones that you've talked about,

to put on the show notes for the podcast. And yes, yes, yes, I

will put your contact information, if anyone wants to

get in touch with you and learn more about who you are and the

incredible programs that that you offer through the intuitive

life. Any last thoughts before we bring the podcast to a close?

Yes, I appreciate the lifelong

learning. And for anyone listening to this podcast. You

know, I think we're, we're a tribe. And one of the books

actually I borrowed from you on youth theory is said that, you

know, it only takes five committed people to change the

world. Just five, and each one of us have an opportunity. We

all have ideas. It's like what if we all created these little

pods of five and got together and just decided this is what's

important. This is what makes me you know, come alive, this is

what I want to do. And as lifelong learners as we just,

you know, support each other and and imagine what we can all do.

And so I would just encourage anyone out there listening to

this, you know, there's, there's a synchronicity of this

particular episode at this particular time. It's, it's

giving you a sign, listen.

I'd love love love. Swinging voice one, I just think

it's close to Valentine's Day. And yeah, it really is. It's,

it's so important. And there you go the community, again, small

groups and the power of working within small groups. So yeah,

great, thank you that. And it is so much fun, because I've been

in some of your small groups and I, and I don't want to go too

far into the story. But somebody had said, Be the person that you

imagine yourself to be five years from now. And then have a

conversation with and you put us into a Zoom Room, as I remember

to the conversation and you and I did and we had such fun. And I

remember when you talked about being you know, having been

written that book on resilience wasn't that fun, and you were so

concerned you would never it lo look at you today. And truly

being that person five years, whatever your timeframe is. And

cheese, it was fun. And it felt so empowering. And we need to be

having fun with this stuff. Because as you've shared with us

so eloquently today, it changes the brain. And the research

proves that it has its huge benefits. So Cheryl, thank you

and to our listeners have some fun with this. Get those

journals out, take those breaths make sure you take that time for

reflection. And let us know how it goes as you deal with your

own negativity biases and and nipping those in the bud before

they they do further damage. It is time for us to bring this

podcast to a close. Cheryl and I believe in each one of you that

by using these tools, you truly will be able to soar higher

because we both believe that you can. Right. I see Cheryl nodding

her head because we're recording this and I can see her. It's

like just believe in yourself soar high because we both

believe you can. Cheryl thank you for making the time to be

with with us here today. You're awesome as always. It is Cheryl

and Susan signing out have a great rest of your day everyone

and thanks for listening and supporting this podcast series

Take care everyone

thank you bye