Back in 2011, The Irish Times published a list, which they deemed to be the 50 most influential people in education. I've been profiling them now for a while, and I've already done the top 10 numbers, 11 to 20, and now it's time for numbers. 21 to 30. Let's see, who's made the list and let me know what you think on anseo.net.

All show notes available on: https://simonmlewis.medium.com/the-50-most-influential-people-in-education-where-are-they-now-part-3-5-01520a753acc

Hello.

2

You're welcome to if I were the

minister for education from anseo.net.

3

The 50 most influential

people in education.

4

Where are they now?

5

Part three.

6

Back in 2011.

7

The Irish times published a list,

which they deemed to be the 50 most

8

influential people in education.

9

I've been profiling them now for a while,

and I've already done the top 10 numbers,

10

11 to 20, and now it's time for numbers.

11

21 to 30.

12

Let's see, who's made the list and let

me know what you think on, anseo.net.

13

Hello, hello.

14

You're welcome to if I were the minister

for education, a podcast where I delve

15

into the world of primary education and,

what I would do if I were the minister

16

for education, this is Simon Lewis.

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I have been looking at an article from the

Irish times that was actually published

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way back in 2011 when I don't know

what the reason was, but they decided

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to profile the 50 most influential

people in education at that time.

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And 12 years on I'm looking at that

list and I'm going through each of

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the people that were on that list

and noticing different patterns and

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noticing different things about them.

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But most importantly is whether

they would still be influential

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today, 12 years later.

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So I'm going to go through

the list as I did last time.

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If you are interested, in

looking at numbers, one to 20,

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those are on the podcast list.

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You can see them on anseo.net.

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Or you can look at the show

notes on my medium profile,

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which is simonmlewis.medium.com.

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But everything you can do, everything

you need will be on, anseo.net.

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If you like this podcast or any previous

podcasts, you can subscribe to my

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newsletter out anseo.net/subscribe, where

you can find out my latest endeavors in

34

the world of analyzing primary education.

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So let's get on to number 21.

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Who is Brian Mooney, a person who you

are probably familiar with, if you've

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any interest whatsoever in education,

because This man is still very much

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around and very much working away.

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I've actually been doing some work with

Brian for the last couple of years with

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the education matters, your book, where

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being hailed by the Irish times who he has

been writing for as hugely knowledgeable

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about all aspects of the education system.

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Brian is a guidance counselor, but

also a regular contributor to the

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media and from working with them.

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I know what the Irish time says is true.

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However, the article seemed to

imply he was being touted for

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an advisory role, similar to the

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And you can hear my.

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Thoughts on that a

couple of episodes back.

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But looking at his LinkedIn page

app, because this is where I found

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as some information about him.

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It didn't seem that

that actually happened.

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So, what do you make the list now?

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It's a tricky question to answer

because in a quiet way, I think

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he would, the education matters.

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Yearbook may not be a book that every

teacher in the country knows about.

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But it is by far the definitive

guide to the topics that all

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teachers do need to be aware about.

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And as the editor of that journal.

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I think he does.

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He certainly deserves.

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His place on the list because I still

think he has his finger on the pulse.

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Number 22.

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The standing committee

or executive of the ASTI.

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Now, if you are just seeing this now,

or if you're just reading this now,

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if you're just listening to this, now

you probably wonder what the heck this

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bunch of people are doing on the list.

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This group is one of two second

level equivalents of the CEC reps

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that you'd be used to seeing if

you're a primary school teacher.

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The ASTI are one of the three

teacher unions out there.

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And they are the ones that the media

portray as being in quotes up for a fight.

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And aren't we lucky to have them in this

new world where all of the unions have

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come together under the umbrella of the

Irish Congress of trade unions, the ICTU.

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Which essentially advertises itself

as giving workers a stronger voice.

75

But in reality, I believe it weakens

individual unions influences.

76

Now we've seen how the INTO

for example, cause that's the

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one that we be focusing on.

78

We've seen how.

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It's voice has really become very

quiet in the last 10 years or so.

80

And we sold this, especially after

the huge cuts during the recession

81

back in 2008, 2009 and beyond.

82

And the teaching unions inability to step

up and fight more strongly for teachers.

83

When, when we were, when they were talking

for rights at the time, It was it was kind

84

of interesting because the ICTU, you could

have brings all of the unions together.

85

The I NTO seemed to be quite weak or had

became weakened because they weren't able

86

to really fight for teachers, particularly

because they were kind of falling in

87

line with general rights of the ICTU.

88

And even when we vote something down

as teachers, if the other unions vote

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in favor, often our vote means nothing.

90

And of all the teaching unions out

there, the AST I are a bit different.

91

They dragged their heels

against the conservatism of the

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politically minded ICTU leaders.

93

And they're often branded as pariahs

because they go against the grain.

94

Unfortunately for them, they eventually

fall in line with the risk when the

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risk of members jumping over to other

second level unions becomes too great,

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which I think I've seen a little bit.

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If the, ASTI kind of do actually

threatened to go on strike.

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A lot of their members jump

ship and go to the TUI who are

99

a little bit more conservative.

100

And obviously being a numbers

game and you're, you're, you're

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only as good as your membership.

102

The ASTI.

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Some had sometimes just have to bow

down to the pressure, I guess now.

104

I mean, they may argue that.

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I think the ASTI though are the

closest we have to a functioning

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trade union in education, and we could

take a few leaves out of their book.

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I think the INTO and the TUI would

do well to maybe, and I know he's

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presume a lot of the other unions.

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Would do well to come away from this

ICTU cartel more assets, I suppose.

110

That's probably the, I dunno

if that's the right word.

111

But in my view, I think we, the

unions need to battle for themselves

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and for their own members.

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What I understand.

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Smaller unions would do

benefit from the ICTU.

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The bigger unions, find them,

find their voices kind of.

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I suppose, shut down so much

out or certainly quietens.

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Now, would they make the list now?

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The ASTI, what a primary level, their

main function is to show us what

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we could be if we had less apathy.

120

And when it comes to any collective

bargaining or any campaigning, I feel the.

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I asked ASTI have always been

the strongest in terms of getting

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their voice into the media.

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And whether or not, I agree with

them a hundred percent of the time

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they've passion and, you know, that's

what I kind of admire about them.

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And whether that's enough to

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INTO CEC reps is improbable.

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And the only reason to put

them here instead of the, I N

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T O will be to demonstrate how

insignificant the I N T O is.

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I don't think either would

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Let's go add to number 23

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Sean Roland.

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At the Irish times asked if Sean Roland

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and in their very, very short profile

piece, they lauded him for creating

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a private teacher training college.

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And their main praise is that it will

cost the taxpayer no money, rather than

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it benefiting the education system.

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Now fast forward, another decade

or so on Hibernia college was sold

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to a textbook publishing company.

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And it's €9,000 tuition fee has

doubled and it's still making profits.

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Because that's all that matters

to the Irish times is profit.

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From my point of view.

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I can't say very much.

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I recorded an episode of the podcast

about private teacher training colleges,

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and I've never been more careful in my

life about what I had to say about them.

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And that should be enough to

tell you what you need to know.

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If you are interested in hearing my

thoughts and they are very guarded, you

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can listen to episode 53 of if I were the

minister for education, which was called

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scrap private teacher training colleges.

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I think that should sort of suffice now

would Sean Roland's make the list now?

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Well, once he sold Hibernia college, his

impact of primary education was no more.

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However, if this were a history of the

education system and the people that

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shaped it, He would certainly be up

there as one of the most influential.

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Number 24.

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Paul Rowe.

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I often refer to Paul Rowe.

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As my second dad or the uncle I never

had because I owe much of my life.

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To them to be perfectly honest to me.

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Paul took on the foundations set

by, Áine Hyland and the other

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founders of educate together.

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I'm built one of the most important

education systems in the country.

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He managed to infiltrate the

education system as an outsider

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with a simple core belief.

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Equality.

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Whatever small amount of diversity we have

in our education system, a primary level.

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I believe we owe a lot of it to him.

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He demonstrated that despite fierce

opposition from the status quo

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slowly, but surely, you can win

them over with a little bit of

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look at it in for good measure.

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In 2011, educate together was India sent.

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We finally had a minister for

education who saw the benefits

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of equality based education.

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And we had an acknowledgement from the

head of the Catholic church in Ireland.

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The things needed to change.

174

Unfortunately, once we're required, left

the position of education and is partially

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moved away from its center left position.

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Paul found himself leading

educate together in a new

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reality where the economy became

more important than equality.

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The Castlebar divestment in 2016

was a massive turning point for me.

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I've put a link in the show notes to

an article on it shows a picture of

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the school house that educate together.

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We're supposed to add, move into

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I called it a symbol of the

divestment process back then.

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Well, Paul did after that was, he

saw that, you know, the, there was

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a bit of a turn out, a bit of a

turning point that educate together

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weren't to be flavor of the month.

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With flavor of the, at all.

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And we also saw that the

community national schools were

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starting to be given schools.

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So the first one was in county

Kerry where educate together.

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Weren't even a part of the process.

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Paul switched his attention to expand and

educate together into the UK to ensure

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the organization remains sustainable.

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One of the things that educate together.

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I suppose all education providers rely on

his state funding and what Paul, I guess.

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I saw was they, he needed we needed

as a, as an organization, educate

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together needed to be sustainable.

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Even if the government were

stopped, the funding, which was

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always going to be a threat.

199

If you didn't play ball.

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There's currently four educate together

schools in the Southwest of England.

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On a personal level.

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I adore Paul, like I would

a dad like a second dad.

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And from the minute we first spoke, when

I helped to organize a public meeting

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with a view to opening, educate together

school in Carlow, he's really been one of

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the most important figures in my career.

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What do you make the list today?

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Similarly to Sean

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rowlands when the history of the

education system is written, Paul wrote

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will be put near the top of the list.

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Even after retirement, he was hoping

to harness the power of technology

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to spread the mission of equality

and education internationally.

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And despite all the resistance from

the status quo, he still hasn't

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lost his faith in that vision.

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Number 25.

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The Finnish model.

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Back in 2011, the Finnish

miracle was all the rage.

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Thanks to good government policy of

actually funding education properly, and

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a charismatic thought leader called Dr.

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Pasi Sahlberg to be fair, it is his name.

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That should be the header,

not the Finnish model.

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Sahlberg address many

conferences, including the

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best IPPN conference in memory.

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As we all aspire to learn

lessons from the most successful

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education system in the world.

225

Over a decade later while the fins

are no longer the best in the world

226

in education, we never really did

learn from what they did well.

227

In fact, the same year of this list,

we potentially put a nail in the coffin

228

for the system, for the education

system, with the literacy and numeracy

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strategy, which forced to schools

to publish their standardized test

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results to the department of education.

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The minister at the time, insisted that

these results would not be used for

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anything other than statistical purposes.

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But in 2017, they began to be used

to allocate resources to schools.

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It is only a matter of time before

they are used for league tables.

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And rather than learning from the

Finns, we completely ignored them.

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And we are seeing the results

of that, particularly for

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children with additional needs.

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What the finished model

make the list today.

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I still think we've a lot to learn

from the finished education system.

240

And in fact, I wrote a

podcast about it last year.

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It's called lessons from Finland

and it's in two parts and you

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can find that on, anseo.net.

243

I have a, probably have Pasi

Sahlberg as a person on their

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list rather than the system.

245

So rather than the Finnish model being

there, I would oppose Pasi Sahlberg

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and I would keep him on the list.

247

Number 26.

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Professor Des Fitzgerald.

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The Irish times made a point of

saying he was the highest paid

250

academic in Ireland in 2011.

251

And according to my internet searching,

he was in the news for financial

252

related reasons in more recent times.

253

He had no role at all

in primary education.

254

So what do you make the list now?

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As with many of these university-based

people on the list, he wouldn't then

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any wouldn't now, because this is

a primary school relation podcast.

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Let's move on Tom Collins.

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Number 27.

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I'll be honest.

260

I'd never heard of this man.

261

But his writeup in the

article was glowing.

262

He was considered to be one of the

most popular people in education.

263

And it's kind of weird since I've

written this article, I've heard a

264

couple of people talking about him in St.

265

Pat's and I had absolutely loved

him because he used to do some of

266

the inspections for primary school

as a teacher training people.

267

And it's kind of interesting because

I, as I said, I'd never heard the name

268

before, but since then a couple of people

have gone about, oh God, Tom Collins.

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Oh, he was brilliant.

270

He was absolutely brand new as a gentlemen

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

271

I didn't train in St.

272

Pats.

273

So that's possibly why

I hadn't heard of him.

274

But at this time of

writing, he had been moving.

275

He was about to move to Bahrain,

but he's since returned.

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And he's now chair of the Dublin Institute

of technology DIT for the last 11 years.

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Would you make the list?

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No.

279

I don't know if he would

know, because he's now not

280

involved in primary education.

281

He may have done, obviously may

282

don't think he would do now.

283

Number 28, Peter Mullen.

284

I must admit, I was kind of surprised

to see Peter's name on the list.

285

But in another way.

286

I wasn't to me, Peter represented

the last real trade unionists

287

in the I N T O at a high level.

288

I know there's lots of trade

unions now, but they're not just.

289

The very high levels of Peter reached.

290

He was never too busy to talk to

any member of the union, no matter

291

where they were in the country.

292

He edited the INTO's in touch magazine.

293

Arguably the last time it was

relevant, he was a brilliant

294

spokesperson for the union.

295

And you always knew you could rely

on him to speak up for teachers.

296

Surprisingly, there's very little

on the internet about Peter Muller

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now, and I believe he has retired.

298

What do you make the list now?

299

Unfortunately while I'm sure

Peter was replaced by another

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assistant general secretary.

301

I couldn't really name them.

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For me that sums the union

up since Mullen's retirement.

303

Do you need to move away from

having a number of well-known

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and charismatic leaders to a more

theocratic model, much like the

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rest of the representative bodies.

306

And sadly for the union.

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And for teachers, there would be only

one union officer on the list these days.

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Number 29 Ferdinand Von Prondzynski.

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I mentioned earlier in the

list under Brian McGraith . Von

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Prondzynski had already moved

311

Hence my very short profile

because would he make the list now?

312

His influence in art and

disappeared fairly quickly.

313

Once he left Ireland, he

wouldn't make the list today.

314

I'm not even sure he deserved his place

back then, as he'd already moved on.

315

Number 30 father Michael Drumm.

316

In 2011, the Irish times believe

the father Michael Drumm was

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poised to become one of the most

recognizable spokesman for the church.

318

Drumm was the first head of the

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However, it seems the Irish times

prediction was a little overstated.

320

Search for Drumm contains very

few results in terms of the

321

pluralism and patronage forum.

322

He showed up in all searches as

being an opposition to divestments.

323

And I have an example of that in my

show notes on simonmlewis.medium.com,

324

but in 2016, seemingly out of

nowhere, he left off for Nigeria.

325

And that's the last record I can find

on the internet of his whereabouts

326

or his influence in any way.

327

What do you make the list now?

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I don't think Drumm lived up to the

Irish times prediction, but it did

329

seem to be a barrier to the divestment

process while he was in power.

330

Which I guess gave him his

place on the list back then.

331

The current head of the Catholic

education partnership is not a priest.

332

Now it's Alan Hynes who holds the role.

333

While it's early days, I think

he will have more influence he's

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a good communicator and comes

across reasonable in debate.

335

We have indeed sparred on the

radio on a couple of occasions.

336

So there we have.

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That is the third batch of

our top 50 influential people

338

in education at pretty quick.

339

Tour of the list only 20 minutes worth.

340

Have a podcast.

341

If you're going for a very

long walk, I deeply apologize.

342

I usually go into a little bit more

detail, but we had a number of people on

343

that list that really had no influence

on primary education at that time.

344

If you are interested in learning more

about the people in this list, you can

345

go to anseo.net or simonmlewis.medium.com

to find out more on the podcast.

346

As I say is available.

347

On all of those platforms that you like.

348

I'm currently at the moment trying

to build up a bit of a mailing list.

349

I mean, I'll use the extra time.

350

I have maybe to tell you

351

I am.

352

I like many people who are

involved in education, I'm finding

353

Twitter or X as it's known now.

354

A more difficult place to be.

355

I kind of find that.

356

While I'm sending, you know, regular posts

and things like that, it's becoming quite

357

a toxic place where, you know, people

particularly with you know, anonymous

358

accounts are coming on and, and, and kind

of doing things that, you know, just.

359

I mean, I don't really

have time to deal with.

360

I'm not saying they upset

me in any particular way.

361

But I found now I found myself

screenshotted with, you know

362

Basically very personal kind of.

363

Horrible things being said about me.

364

There's been a couple of anti-Semitic.

365

Kind of comments put about my profile

as someone just wrote the word nonce

366

my name, which is just, you know,

like only that I don't, I don't care.

367

'cause it's just rubbish.

368

But it's just, it does become a

bit annoying really that you're

369

putting stuff out on, on Twitter

or on the online or whatever it is.

370

And they, and what I'm trying to

do, I suppose my, my goal isn't

371

particularly to cause trouble.

372

My goal isn't to be a nuisance.

373

I am obviously admit.

374

I want to disrupt the education system.

375

So what I do find it's quite flat.

376

I do think we do need to change the

system because we, because the church,

377

the Catholic church in particular has far

too much influence in, in how it goes.

378

I think we have an, we have a really good

education system in many ways, but the,

379

the bits I'd say the 5%, the knots are

generally caused by this patronage model,

380

which I think we need to get rid of.

381

And the way we're going

about it, isn't working.

382

So I don't know, I don't have a

platform other than social media,

383

but I am finding Twitter becoming

less of a useful place to do that.

384

And unfortunately for me, it's where

I invested all my eggs in a basket.

385

And I have.

386

Quite a lot of people who I suppose

use my, you know, kind of read

387

my my posts as they're now known.

388

And I really feel, I need to

move away from it somewhat.

389

Because I can see it being taken over.

390

Bye.

391

People, I don't really want to be

associated with the, the anonymous

392

accounts who are using the platform.

393

To spread.

394

I guess the type of rhetoric that.

395

You know, started in the 1920s

396

I am looking at that pattern and I

don't want it to be, I don't think

397

these particular people are fascists

themselves, but they're getting swept

398

up in the kind of fascist rhetoric.

399

Of certain political parties who I fear

are growing and we could see them growing.

400

We can see us in, in a

holler in the Netherlands.

401

We can see it in a Hungary, we can

see it in various countries where, and

402

right-wing parties are starting to.

403

To take hold in places.

404

And I don't think Ireland

is any different to that.

405

I guess I have to look at

different avenues where I can

406

put my thoughts out there.

407

And discuss them with people.

408

I'm not necessarily.

409

I'm definitely not saying my

thoughts are correct, but I do

410

want to find a place where people.

411

Can read them and disagree with them

or agree with them and kind of continue

412

conversations in a more safe space.

413

Done a Twitter or X.

414

And so if you are interested in doing

that I have started a newsletter.

415

It's only taken me 18 years to set

up this newsletter you can do that

416

by going to anseo.net/subscribe.

417

What I'm going to do is every week

or two, probably every couple of

418

weeks anyway, because because of time

I'm going to publish a newsletter.

419

It will let you know that my latest

podcast is ready to listen to.

420

So your.

421

You should be getting it from here.

422

I'm currently saving lots of articles

that I find interesting about education.

423

And my plan really for 2024 is

to take a few of those articles.

424

And maybe discuss those on the

podcASTI 'm also going to be using.

425

I'm also going to be trying to

continue my journey with AI.

426

I'm really interested in artificial

intelligence and I've created a few bits

427

and pieces on a website called mash.Plus.

428

And you can go over there to have a look

at those, but I want to share things that

429

I've learned about artificial intelligence

and technology in general, because I think

430

20 24, it's going to be an interesting

year for technology in education.

431

So I'm kind of thinking of creating

a few articles and podcasts on

432

technology and education as well.

433

So I'm another plan I have maybe for 2024

is to maybe use a bit more video given

434

the, again, that artificial intelligence

will be able to give me the time.

435

Time to, you know, chop up the bits

that I'm going to use or not use.

436

I think the thing preventing me

from going on video in the past is

437

that I rely a lot on my show notes.

438

So me staring at a screen doing, saying

nothing isn't as going to be, isn't

439

going to be very useful, but I found

some software which uses artificial

440

intelligence and it allows me to I

suppose, make my, make some videos

441

that will at least if not interesting.

442

They'll be a little bit more

interesting than looking at me,

443

looking at reading off a screen.

444

So that's kind of my plans in a nutshell.

445

I'll see how it goes.

446

Obviously I'll be continuing these

normal podcasts where I delve

447

into a subject in more detail.

448

I still have two more parts of this

one to do so the 50 most influential

449

people in education where they're

now parts four and five will be

450

coming up over the next few weeks.

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But other than that I've no

more to say to you other than to

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wish you a very happy new year.

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For 2024.

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I hope you'll.

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If you do enjoy this podcast or you want

to tell your teacher friends about it,

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please do share the anseo.net/subscribe

link, because I'd love to build up a bit

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of an audience for this until next time.

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Thanks for listening.

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And we'll see you then bye-bye.