In this Episode I'm talking to the lovely Lindsay Ephgrave.

Lindsay is the founder and director of Announce PR, a boutique PR consultancy. Lindsay has worked in the industry for over 20 years and is a fountain of knowledge!

Lindsay works with business owners and individuals to elevate their credibility, authority and get them featured in the media.

You can find Lindsay at the following places:

Instagram: Lindsay Ephgrave (@lindsayephgrave) • Instagram photos and videos

Facebook: (2) Facebook

LinkedIn: Lindsay Ephgrave | LinkedIn

Website: Boutique Bedfordshire Based PR Agency | Announce PR

You can keep up to date with the host Helen here:

https://linktr.ee/Helencorsicadmore

Liked this episode? Remember to subscribe and leave a review! Or if you want to be a guest then contact me at hello@helencorsicadmore.com

Thank you,

Hels x

Hello and welcome to another

episode of Fabulous and Female.

2

The podcast where I talk about, um,

real, honest business balance and

3

trying to avoid that lovely burnout

that does happen when we have our

4

own businesses and when you're just

in life and In work in general.

5

So this morning I am delighted to have a

wonderful guest, lovely Lindsay with me.

6

Uh, Lindsay F.

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Grave, let's get your name right,

that's a good start, isn't it?

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Lindsay F.

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Grave is the founder and

director of Announced PR, which

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is a boutique PR consultancy.

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Um, Lindsay works with businesses to

elevate their credibility, authority,

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and get them featured in the media.

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As well as running a successful agency,

Lindsay has developed a group coaching

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program, which we're definitely going

to talk about later, um, for business

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owners and marketeers to help them get

featured in the media in just eight weeks.

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Wow.

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Uh, Lindsay has worked in PR for over

20 years, initially specializing in

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the healthcare sector, um, working

in house for a biotech brand, and

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later on at a global PR agency.

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Lindsay has run Announce PR for 14 years

with a healthy roster of clients, some

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of whom have been with her now for years.

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So lovely Lindsay, that's the very kind

of, you know, headline structured bio.

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I would love for you to tell us a little

bit more about Lindsay and a little

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bit more about you personally as well.

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Let's get, let's um, get

to know you a bit more.

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Let's get personal.

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Okay.

28

Yeah.

29

Sounds good.

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. Well, first of all, thank

you so much for having me.

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It's lovely to, to see you again.

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Yeah.

33

Um, Helen and I have, um, yeah, we

crossed paths probably about a year

34

or so ago now and have, have worked

together and kept in touch and, um,

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I've done a LinkedIn live with you

and also a masterclass for your Yes.

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Membership.

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So, yeah, it's really nice

to be on your podcast.

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So thank you so much.

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You're, you're welcome.

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Yes, as you say, that is the kind of,

uh, corporate professional bio, isn't it?

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So yeah, I mean, I, um, so I'm

a mom, I have two, two children.

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And the reason that I set up, set

up announce was so that I could

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continue to work in PR, but work

that around my, um, around my family.

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So, um, As I said in the bio, I

worked for a global PR agency,

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Ogilvy, which was London based.

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I was traveling a lot internationally.

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Um, and so when my eldest Charlie

came along, that just wasn't, that

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just wasn't going to work anymore.

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Yeah.

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How old is Charlie now?

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So he is now, he's 15,

he'll be 16 in April.

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Oh my god, he's not little anymore.

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No, he's really not.

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So, yeah, so I've got two teens

on my hands now because my

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daughter turned 13 in November.

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Oh, okay.

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Let's talk about that another day.

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So I'm now in a, yeah, a different,

different phase of parenting.

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Charlie's doing his GCSEs

at the moment, so, um.

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So that's, yeah, so that's a lot.

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And actually, even though They don't need

me as much in terms of, um, you know, like

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they're out, they leave the house at 7.

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30, they get home at 4.

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So, you know, and I don't have

to do the school runs anymore

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because they both get the bus.

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Oh, amazing.

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I can't wait to be in that position.

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I feel like my life is

just in the school run.

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I know, I know.

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And it's so, it's so strange

because for years and years, I

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couldn't really do much until say 9.

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30, when you're, when you're back.

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Um.

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And then there was that hard stop at

three o'clock or or whatever it was.

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Yeah.

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Um, so yeah, in the last 18 months, it's

been a real, um, shift in my working

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patterns and my, and my working life.

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Um, but even though they are out of

the house for longer and they're not

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so reliant on me for getting to school

and don't need so much of my time,

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I'm still really grateful that I.

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Work for myself and you know, come

work flexibly and work from home

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all the reasons why I set set the

agency up and started working for

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myself All those all those years ago.

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Yeah, so what kind of what in what

really inspired you then to start?

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Announce PR was it because of the

children and you thought right?

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I want something more flexible, or was

it just you got to that stage when you're

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in a career and thought, Hmm, I could

be doing something for myself here.

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Tell us a little bit more about that.

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Yeah, I think, I think it

was a bit of both really.

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Um, I really enjoyed PR and I enjoyed,

you know, I really enjoyed my job

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and I loved, loved what I was doing.

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Um, and I, I enjoyed the

healthcare sector, but I was

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curious, excuse me, I was curious.

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to, um, explore working

with different businesses in

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different industries and sectors.

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And so that was something that was a

benefit when I, when I set up by myself.

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Would have been quite different, isn't it?

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To go, because healthcare is.

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It's the healthcare.

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It's very, um, what's the word?

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Particular, I guess, isn't it?

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And then to work with other people.

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What kind of other industries

have you, have you mainly worked

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with or has it been quite varied?

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Yeah, really varied.

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I would say if I had to, um,

sort of pinpoint, um, an area, it

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would be, um, sort of B2B and the

more, and the more corporate side.

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Um, but just to say, sorry,

Lindsay, just to say.

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B2B, we're just gonna, we'll be really,

really like Honestly, what is B2B?

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Because some listeners will

not have a clue what B2B is.

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Yeah, no, I get you.

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So, you know, it's really important

and there is a lot of jargon.

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Yeah, and we do it,

don't we, automatically.

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Yeah, we do.

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Just in life, we expect everyone to

know because that's what we know.

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But actually, if someone's listening,

they're like What the hell is B2B?

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Yeah, so B2B is business to business.

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So it's essentially a business that

is selling to another business.

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Yeah, perfect.

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So, and then you've got B2C.

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Which is, and when you, when you see B2B

and B2C, it's written B, the number two,

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B, and then B, the number two, and C.

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And that would be

business to, to consumer.

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So businesses that are

selling to the general public.

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Um, so yeah, I would say.

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Broadly working with businesses

to help them, um, uh, providing

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PR services to help them market

themselves to other businesses.

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Uh, but in recent years I have

worked with B2C, um, and have worked

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with brands and businesses that are

selling to, um, selling to consumers.

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And I think that's where, um, a lot

of the media relations work that

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I've been doing a lot of recently.

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I mean, I've always worked with the media.

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Right back from, from the early days

of PR, um, but that's where you kind

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of get another side to PR and you can

get, it can be quite exciting, you know,

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you, um, you start working with a brand

and then you, um, deliver them press

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coverage in media that they want to be

seen in and it's a buzz for them and it's

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a, it's a buzz for you, for me, yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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On that, can you, can you share

anything that's like quite juicy?

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Do you have any juicy?

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It's not really goss, like, you've

ever, you've ever been to a hair store.

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Well, okay, okay.

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I actually, I had no idea I was going to

say this, but I'm just going to say it.

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That's what my podcast is all about.

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Yeah, so it's not really goss, but so

years ago, and it was actually when I

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was on maternity leave with Charlie, I

went on this morning and had my hair cut.

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Did you?

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Yes.

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Oh my God, amazing.

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I did.

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Who was hosting it then?

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Charlie.

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It was Philip Scofield.

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Oh it was?

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Okay.

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And Fern.

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Fern.

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So it's just before Holly had come, come

in, so it must have been, what's her name?

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Fern.

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Fern Britain.

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Britain.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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So it must have been, lemme try 2009.

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So it was 2009.

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Okay.

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So I think, I think what happened was I

was at home on maternity leave and I was

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kind of like, what can I do with myself?

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And then putting my PR hat on.

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Oh, I'll just, you know, sitting

up, as you do when you're sitting

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at home, when you've got a newborn

or, you know, young baby, you watch

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a lot of daytime TV, don't you?

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So I'm like, Oh, I can have a makeover.

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So I emailed.

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So I PR'd myself essentially.

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So I emailed the, uh, show and emailed

a producer and they came back to me.

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I'm pretty sure if it wasn't that

day, it was the following day.

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I got a reply instantly.

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And that's not normal really, is it?

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No, no, no, not really.

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And this was, I think this was

a timing thing, you know, and

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this is still so true in PR and.

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You know, even now.

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It was just good timing.

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I mean, I don't know whether it ended

that well for me, with the hairstyle I

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ended up with, but I'll come on to that.

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So, um I'm definitely going to be

Googling it now, to see if I can find it.

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You have to send me a picture.

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Yeah, it's still there, it's still there.

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So, I emailed them, I emailed back and

said, thanks so much for your email.

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We're actually planning a new feature.

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Right.

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Where we want members of the public to

come in and Have a hairstyle, a celebrity

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hairstyle that is voted for by viewers.

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I mean, most people I think

would have gone, absolutely not.

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But whether, but whether I was

just, yeah, but whether I was just

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in this maternity leave, you know.

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Yeah, bubble, kind of, yeah.

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I just went, yeah, great, I'll do that.

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So, um, so anyway, um, cut to, cut

to the sort of day before recording.

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Um, there was me and my mum and I,

I took Charlie with me and we went

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down to a hotel, stayed over the

night, had to get up really early.

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Um, the three celebrity

hairstyles were Kate Winslet.

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Right.

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Katie, Katie Holmes when she

had the really short, dark bob.

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Wow, okay.

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Yeah.

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And Lily Allen when she had really

long, dark hair with a blunt fringe.

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Now, this is hilarious because if

anyone is just listening to this

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on audio and is not, um, watching.

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Lindsay has got the most beautiful,

long, kind of, um, blonde hair.

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Couldn't be more different

than the three people!

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I know, so, and I knew this.

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So I knew this at the time,

so I'm going, okay, great.

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Um, and it was Charles Worthington,

so Charles Worthington was

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the celebrity hairdresser.

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So I get there, get shown, meet

the, meet everybody, meet the

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presenters, get taken to the hair.

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Hairstyling studio.

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Yeah, my mom is having the best day

because she goes she's sent to the green

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room And in there was Christopher Biggins

and Natasha Kaplinsky Oh wait So she's

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having Two people in the room, interesting

In itself She's loving it, thinking,

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well this is just a nice day out Um They

then take all the mirrors away from me,

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so I can't see what's, what's happening.

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Um, they tie my hair up in, they do like

a before mugshot and it literally, it

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looks as though I've just been arrested.

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Because there's no, no makeup.

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Yeah, you know, it's literally a mugshot.

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It is a mugshot.

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So, so they take the before photo,

they tie my hair back and then

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they, um, The hairstyle that was

chosen was the Katie Holmes style.

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Oh my goodness.

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So drastic, because my hair was

very similar then to how it is now.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, so tied my hair in a ponytail,

chopped it off, showed that on the screen.

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Oh, look, it's her hair.

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Um, dyed my hair brown,

cut it really short.

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So they then take me on to the,

um, floor to do the live reveal.

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Yeah, do you remember that?

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Yeah.

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So then it was literally a big mirror.

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I hadn't, I hadn't, I hadn't seen it.

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Turned me round.

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Obviously, I was kind of, I mean, I didn't

really like it, but you know, it's, it's

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just, you're on TV, so you're kind of,

oh, lovely, and Charles Worthington just

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cut it, so I'm not going to be too, like,

yeah, it's not a big deal to have him

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cutting it, yeah, so I was like, oh yeah,

it's great, and then, so I had a fill

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all fun, my mum's standing behind the

cameras, holding Charlie, oh my goodness,

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no, oh hilarious, backstage, Charlie takes

one look at me, and Bursts into tears,

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like tears streaming, tears streaming.

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Oh my goodness, this has been

completely different for him.

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Completely different, yeah.

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And you know, the lights and the TV show.

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Anyway, so show ends, off we go home.

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Don't think much of it.

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I mean, my phone's obviously going

with people going, I don't see

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anyone on TV, blah, blah, blah.

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Um, anyway, the next

day, get up, phone rings.

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Um, it's my dad going, did you

know you're, you're in the papers?

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In the papers as well.

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Yes.

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Talk about PRing yourself Lindsay.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And this is what you'll

find if you Google it.

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And I've still got the clippings.

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So I think it was the mail, the sun.

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It even went into USA Today.

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You know, it went viral.

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Back then, that's like viral.

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Not the viral we know now.

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But back in 2009, that's viral.

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And the story was, it was hilarious.

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So, mum has such extreme makeover, son

doesn't recognize her, and then, but

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the classic line from the mail was, 10

month old Charlie says, uh, 10 month

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old Charlie says, where's my mummy?

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Do you know what?

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Thank you so much for sharing

that because I didn't know that.

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But also, what a brilliant

story to say, do you know

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what, you, you can PR yourself.

280

Yeah.

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Without really, really realizing.

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Um, I guess, let's just take a step back

because again, I like to keep things

283

really, um, candid for people here.

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So PR, what, what actually is PR?

285

Because, you know, we, we, we

know it in a sense that what

286

you just said, you know, it's.

287

It's, um, media, it's tv,

paper, those kind of things.

288

But give us a bit of a synopsis

of what actually PR is.

289

Mm, yes, I will.

290

And I think, um, I'll start with a common

misconception of PR in that it's all about

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the media, and I know we've, I've just

given you an example of PR in the media.

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I think there is this, um, there

can be this perception that PR

293

equals getting press coverage.

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Yeah.

295

For getting featured in the media.

296

Um, that is actually

It does for me as well.

297

Yeah, yeah.

298

But that's the first thing

that comes to my head is right.

299

Yeah.

300

PR is media.

301

That's it.

302

So yeah.

303

Explain what it really is, I think.

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Yeah.

305

And I, but I, and I think it's

kind of an easy way to explain it.

306

You know, you, you, we've all

seen these memes on TikTok and

307

socials where it's kind of explain

to your parents what you do.

308

Yeah.

309

. So I think it, it kind of makes it

relatable to explain Yeah, it does.

310

Yeah.

311

In that way it does.

312

But it is just one type of pr.

313

So there are.

314

Ultimately, PR is about reputation.

315

Yes.

316

So that's the end goal is to

manage your companies, your brands,

317

if it's, you know, if it's your

business, your, your reputation.

318

Yeah.

319

Um, and ensure that your

business or brand is.

320

received and perceived positively by

its stakeholders and by its audiences.

321

Okay.

322

So reputation is kind of the, you

know, the key word, the kind of

323

overarching strategy and goal.

324

And then out of that, you'll have tactics.

325

So you'll have different activities

that you can, um, implement.

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to help achieve that,

and media is one of them.

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So, uh, so you have public PR, which is

public relations, and then out of that

328

you'll have media relations, which will

be, um, uh, the activity of getting

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press coverage or liaising with the

media or crisis management or whatever,

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anything that involves the media.

331

Then you would have, um, things like

internal communications or internal

332

relations, so how you, Communicate

with your employees, because of course

333

your employees are a stakeholder.

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They're an audience and how

your employees perceive you

335

contributes to your reputation.

336

Then you've got corporate

communications and investor relations.

337

So particularly if you're a large

corporate and you're a listed company,

338

you will have obligations to report

your financial results and report

339

mergers, acquisitions, takeovers.

340

That kind of thing.

341

So your shareholders will be a, a key

audience and a, and a stakeholder.

342

Yeah.

343

Um, so you'll want to be, um,

communicating with them in a, in

344

a, an ethical and positive way.

345

Um, and, um, even things like your

website, social media, you know,

346

because one of your audiences

is of course your end user.

347

Absolutely.

348

And your customer.

349

So what does your website say?

350

How does your website look?

351

What are you saying in your e newsletters?

352

what are you sharing on

your social channels?

353

Yeah.

354

If you're a brick and mortar

business, what is that impression

355

when people walk in to your premises?

356

Who's greeting them?

357

Yeah, absolutely love that.

358

And that's really interesting because

I think you've said it there, like,

359

you know, PR is this, is this kind

of overview, but then it's all these

360

different elements that come off it.

361

And I think, as we mentioned at the

beginning, I think a lot of people just

362

think of it as media, but I love the

fact that you've said things like, you

363

know, um, written communication is.

364

So important.

365

And there's something that I, I talked

to with my clients about, you mentioned

366

on the website or, um, you know, on

your, even on your Instagram channels or

367

whatever, you know, social media channels,

you've got to remember that everybody

368

receives communication differently.

369

So I'm very visual.

370

I.

371

I receive information much better

visually than I do, um, written text.

372

But say, for example, someone comes

on the website and you've just got

373

a, you know, just a load of text.

374

No pictures, nothing.

375

For somebody like me Oh my

goodness, I'd be, I'd be completely

376

lost in there and you'd lose me

very, very, uh, very quickly.

377

So from a sort of PR point of view

then, is that really important to

378

really understand as you said that

you're end user and understand what

379

sort of works for them as well to

really sort of target the PR side?

380

Yeah, it's really important and that,

that research and that insight stage

381

is something that needs to happen

at the start of any PR activity, you

382

know, even any marketing activity.

383

Um, so a key part of what I will do

when I start working with a client.

384

And in fact, I'm, um, working on a

research project at the moment for a, um,

385

company in the health healthcare sector.

386

Um, so I would research things

like who, so who my customers

387

are, um, what's influencing them.

388

Um, Who are the key, um, kind of

opinion leaders or key influences

389

in my, in my sector or my industry?

390

What are the key media outlets?

391

Um, what are the key issues at the moment?

392

What are people, what

are people worried about?

393

Because all of that research

and all of those insights.

394

Will inform your PR strategy.

395

Yeah.

396

And then obviously make sure

that your activity is designed

397

to do what it needs to do.

398

Yeah.

399

Um, and, and, you know, and even a

step back from that is, you know,

400

setting your objectives in terms

of what do you want PR activity.

401

That's what I was going to say.

402

What are the, what are the benefits

or the outcomes of using PR?

403

So yeah, if you could explain that

a little bit, that'd be brilliant.

404

Yeah.

405

So PR can be a really useful

and meaningful way to, to reach

406

your, to reach your audience.

407

Um, and to grow your, to

grow your audience as well.

408

Um, I think, you know, we had, we touched

on this when we did the LinkedIn live.

409

I think, I think a lot of businesses.

410

use social media, and I'm really,

really happy to use social media

411

and do social media themselves.

412

Um, with PR, they sort of feel

as if You know, they can't do,

413

you know, they can't do that.

414

That needs to be, you know, it's

not available to them, or it's, or

415

it's, or it's not accessible to them.

416

Yeah, it's not accessible to them.

417

Yeah, that's fair.

418

Um, but, you know, but it actually is.

419

So in terms of what, what PR can achieve,

um, and I'll use, I'll use media relations

420

as an example, just to, um, I suppose

just to focus on that for the time being.

421

So, so most people know, isn't it?

422

So yeah, they'll be quite relevant.

423

Yeah.

424

Yeah.

425

So, so what, um, successful media

relations does for a business is it

426

really supports that reputation and

that authority and that credibility

427

piece, because we can all use social

media on our own comms channels

428

to talk about our businesses, talk

about our products, talk about our

429

services and, and how good they are.

430

But, yeah.

431

When someone else says it about you,

so when it's reported in a media

432

outlet or even on a podcast or at

an event when you're, when you're

433

speaking, if a third party mentions

your business, talks about your

434

product or service, it's that advocacy.

435

Yeah.

436

They're acting as that, as that

ambassador for your business.

437

And generally.

438

You trust, you trust that more.

439

Yeah.

440

You know me too.

441

It's that, it's that borrowed

credibility from whether it's BB,

442

C or the Guardian or The Times or

Stylist or Grya or Hello or Yeah.

443

You know, whatever media outlet has that

gravitas in your industry or, or sector.

444

You know, it's like, for example, when

you go into a bookstore, you know it all

445

the reviews and you'll see a label on

the front that's got the Observer or.

446

The Guardian, you know, Five Stars, you

know, film reviews, film reviews are You

447

know, five stars from The Independent

or five stars from, and you just

448

think, oh, well, it must be good then.

449

Yes, you do.

450

You know, because of your

You automatically think of

451

the credibility, the trust.

452

Yeah.

453

Yeah.

454

Yeah.

455

And that's so true.

456

And that's something powerful

that businesses can pick up on.

457

Yeah, absolutely.

458

You're right there.

459

And even if, even if you don't

kind of, if you don't like that.

460

Publication or that,

you know, independent.

461

Yes.

462

You still think, okay, that must be good.

463

So I, you know, it does enforce that,

that trust factor and the credibility

464

when it's when they've got that

kind of stamp on it, doesn't it?

465

And I'm very much a sucker for that.

466

If I see something that's,

you know, been given.

467

Five stars by somebody.

468

I'm like, yeah, okay.

469

That must be good.

470

Yeah, I'll cut up then.

471

I, I do, I'm one of those

PR suckers, I guess.

472

Okay.

473

Yeah.

474

They're doing their job, don't they?

475

Yeah.

476

It's that, it's that trust factor because

I think we're all skeptical, we all have

477

some degree of skepticism, don't we?

478

Yeah.

479

Um, and if a company.

480

You know, doesn't have a brand legacy,

you know, not everyone is an Apple or

481

a, you know, Dyson or a whatever it is.

482

Yeah.

483

So, um, so it's kind of what else can you

do to instill, instill trust in someone

484

who's going to part with their cash

for my product or product or service.

485

Yeah.

486

And that's a, that's a really

good point to say there because.

487

You know, a lot of people who listen

to this podcast, um, you know, maybe in

488

the early startup phases, um, or maybe

looking to pivot, grow, whatever it is,

489

or even just thinking, right, how can I,

how can I use this in my, in my career,

490

in my employment, you know, PR, I guess.

491

For me, and this is a perceived,

um, perceived belief that PR is, as

492

you mentioned, is, is unaccessible.

493

So how can, um, a small business or an

independent, you know, somebody, a sole

494

trader, how can they really utilize

PR to their advantage when they don't

495

have a big budget or they don't, you

know, have all, um, uh, the staff or the

496

employers to go out and do it for them?

497

How can they make PR accessible to them?

498

Yeah, and it can feel really

overwhelming because, you know, you

499

don't know what you don't know, do you?

500

You know, so, starting where, you

know, where, where do I even start?

501

So, yeah, I totally get that.

502

Um, and actually since this, not, not

quite since the start of the year,

503

because I had a bit of a digital

detox, but over the last week and, and

504

throughout January, um, I'm sharing

a PR prompt on my Instagram story.

505

I've seen that, it's brilliant.

506

It's just like a little tip.

507

Yeah, it's great.

508

Um, so, because there are Things

that you can do on a daily basis that

509

don't take up a huge amount of time.

510

And there are things you can do

that will really move the needle

511

in terms of your PR activity.

512

And help you, um, help

you get press coverage.

513

It's just knowing, I hate using

the word tricks, but it's just

514

knowing where to look, I think.

515

And just knowing the little things to do.

516

It's like with anything, isn't it?

517

With social media and new features

and things that that come out.

518

It's keeping on top of it.

519

And these PR prompts that I'm

sharing are specific, uh, steps

520

and tips that I have also shared in

my, you know, accelerator program.

521

And, um, That's been running

for a few months and graduates

522

have already secured coverage.

523

So I know that they work, you

know, I know these tips and

524

these, and these prompts work.

525

Um, Would you mind sharing

just maybe two just now?

526

Yeah, no, of course.

527

So I think the first thing to

do is what we touched on, um,

528

earlier is around objectives.

529

So So, really, um, take the time to

understand where you want to be seen.

530

Yes.

531

So, look at your business, think about

your customers, and think about what

532

would align well with your customers,

you know, the types of media that

533

your customers might, they might not

necessarily be consuming or reading it.

534

I mean, hopefully they would be,

but even if it's a media brand

535

that they would be influenced by.

536

Yeah.

537

Okay.

538

Help with that trust.

539

Yeah.

540

Um, so think, so think about that to

start with and just focus on one or two,

541

you know, don't worry too much about.

542

I've got to be, yeah, I've

got to be seen everywhere.

543

Yeah, yeah.

544

That's what people get

a bit bogged down by.

545

So where do I start?

546

So I love that.

547

Where do I start?

548

Keep things simple and

just focus on one or two.

549

Just focus on one or two because it's

really important to become the expert on

550

the media outlet that you're pitching to.

551

So let's say, for example, it's,

um, I don't know, you're a skincare

552

brand and you want to be in Grazia

in their beauty section, for example.

553

So you are going to want

to become the expert on.

554

How Grazia covers skincare products,

how they talk about the beauty industry.

555

Are they, are they only covering

products that, you know, cost a

556

certain amount or, um, is it natural?

557

Or is it, um, I know there's certain

themes when they're talking about skincare

558

products, if they do product roundups,

um, are they only affiliate links?

559

Because affiliate links is.

560

It's a whole other story.

561

A whole other story, yes.

562

In product PR, for example.

563

But become the expert

on that, on that outlet.

564

And then you want to look at which

journalists are writing those

565

articles and speeches and stories.

566

And become an expert on them.

567

Lots of journalists are on, are on X,

so you can find good information there.

568

A lot of journalists also now are

freelancers, so they might have their own

569

Websites with their contact details on

and their, and their portfolio of work.

570

And once you've done that research,

you should start to have a picture

571

in your mind of, okay, they're

writing about skincare in this way.

572

I think I could tie my

product in in this way.

573

And then before you know it, you've

got that outreach pitch to send to a

574

journalist to say, you know, hi, I've

noticed that you're writing about X, Y, Z.

575

I'd love to tell you about my

product, which is da da da da da.

576

Here's the product information.

577

Send really good quality images.

578

Um, you can send one or two thumbnails.

579

Yeah, in the, in the, uh, body of the

email, but you, uh, would also want

580

to say you have more high res images

available that you can send through

581

Google Drive or something like that.

582

Would you send, um, physical product,

if you, if you're, you know, a product

583

based business, would you send a

physical product to a journalist?

584

Um, yes, there are a

few, few considerations.

585

So first of all, because

if you're a small business,

586

particularly that can be expensive.

587

Yes.

588

Yeah.

589

You don't want to just be sending out.

590

So first of all, I try and build a

relationship with the journalist that

591

you want to send product to, um, and

then make, and then get their, you know,

592

address because lots of journalists

now don't work five days a week at

593

the, at the publications offices,

there'll be, you know, working from

594

home or if they're freelance, they

might, you know, very, very rarely be.

595

So you'll want to build a relationship

first, um, and, and, you know, and that

596

can be a good way of making sure that a.

597

They would write about your product,

you know, and B, when they receive

598

it, you've already got that dialogue

going so you can say, Oh, just

599

checking, you know, did it arrive?

600

Okay, what did you think?

601

Yeah, absolutely.

602

Do you think you might be

able to use it in something?

603

Yeah.

604

So it's built, it's still built in

that trust, which we talked about a

605

lot, that credibility, but building

the relationships before you just kind

606

of go blank, you know, both selling or

whatever, just, you know, don't just, um.

607

Say, can I have your address

to send you something?

608

You want to, you want

to build up that trust.

609

Yeah.

610

Okay.

611

Yeah, and you want to know that they're,

um, you know, that, that they're

612

actually writing about products that

you're, that you're selling because

613

there's no, you know, bigger turnoff

for a journalist than to get a pitch

614

or a press release on something that is

completely, you know, irrelevant for them.

615

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

616

Just something else to

say on that as well.

617

I think that's another,

another benefit of.

618

Businesses doing their own PR in

that they start to build and then

619

own those relationships with media.

620

Yeah, because once you've established

a relationship with a journalist,

621

then that's an asset for you.

622

You know, and that's something

that you can keep coming back to.

623

Yeah, absolutely.

624

Absolutely.

625

Okay.

626

Million dollar question, I guess, is.

627

I know you're, when you talked about your

PR on yourself, and that just seemed to

628

happen kind of very easy and very quickly,

you know, how, how often is there kind of

629

a magic number of times that you would,

you know, um, reach out to a certain

630

journalist before you kind of just.

631

give up if they don't, you know, um,

they don't respond or they don't want

632

to build a relationship, you know.

633

How many sort of times would

you keep going at something?

634

Is there like a magic

number in the industry?

635

There isn't really a magic number.

636

Um, although what I would say is

you don't just want to be sent

637

saying or sending the same thing.

638

Yes.

639

Okay.

640

So if you're literally just forwarding

the same email going, have you seen this?

641

Are you going to, are you interested?

642

I'm just following up.

643

I would say the magic number is zero.

644

Because each time you contact a

journalist, you're going to want to

645

Okay, you can do one follow up, you

know, oh, you know, just checking, um,

646

was this of any interest, you know,

you probably want to do that once.

647

Um, but that's not to say you can't

ever contact that journalist again,

648

um, if they don't respond, but you'd

need to have a different angle.

649

Yeah.

650

And a different story.

651

Change your tactic.

652

Change your tactic, change your

story, find something else.

653

Okay.

654

Can you link to one of the PR prompts

I shared a couple of days ago with,

655

can you link to an awareness day?

656

An awareness campaign?

657

Yeah.

658

A seasonal event, that kind of thing.

659

Perfect.

660

Yeah.

661

And in my accelerator,

I, I talk about layering.

662

So, so, um, a couple of the

modules go into, into depth

663

around how you can create stories.

664

Mm-Hmm.

665

, because that's the hardest thing.

666

Right.

667

You know, you sort of think, okay,

well, I've, I'm a coach or I'm,

668

um, you know, I've got a product

business or I'm a service business.

669

You need to have a story, you know,

journalists generally aren't going to

670

care that you've got this business.

671

No, absolutely.

672

They want something back, you

know, back, back story, don't they?

673

Yeah.

674

Yeah.

675

And something that's going

to make you stand out.

676

So I go through.

677

the PR toolkit, which is essentially,

um, seven building blocks to help

678

you create a story or seven sources

of ideas to help you create a story.

679

Um, but the layering

effect is really useful.

680

So for example, if you're, if you're

going after an awareness campaign or a

681

seasonal event, Um, can you tie that in

with some research or a Google trend,

682

just so that it's something like,

okay, if it's, if it's Easter, um,

683

it's not just a case, oh, it's Easter,

buy my product, you know, it's Easter.

684

And we know that around this time,

50 percent of people like to do

685

X, eat way too much chocolate.

686

Yeah.

687

Um, you know, it might be, oh gosh,

I'm trying to think of, trying to think

688

of an example off the top of my head.

689

And maybe it's like buying Easter gifts.

690

So maybe, um, you know, parents

are, um, turning away from

691

chocolate and choosing cuddly toys,

you know, and we we've seen a.

692

you know, um, 75 percent increase

in sales of our cuddly toys going

693

up at Easter because parents don't

want to buy their kids chocolate.

694

Um, and that could be a story

from Cuddly Toy Company.

695

Yeah, no, absolutely.

696

You know, you've got Easter and some

research rather than just going, buy

697

my, buy your child a cuddly toy later.

698

So you've got, again, you've got some.

699

Uh, credibility behind you

again, so you can say, yes, okay.

700

We've noticed X, y, Z in our business.

701

Yeah.

702

You know, um, you, you run

with this story, you know?

703

Yeah.

704

Yeah.

705

Um, yeah.

706

Okay.

707

I love that.

708

Let's just talk quickly about your,

um, accelerator, because this was

709

something new you started Mm-Hmm.

710

End of last year.

711

Yes.

712

Last year.

713

Yes.

714

Uh, we kicked off and

towards the end of September.

715

Yeah.

716

First cohort.

717

Yeah.

718

So what made you change your direction

or add, not change, but add in

719

another layer to, to what you do?

720

Yeah.

721

Um, well it's really interesting

actually because I actually first

722

started delivering PR training back

when I worked at Ogilvy for a Okay.

723

for the global agency.

724

Yeah.

725

Yeah.

726

So that would have been,

727

So we worked with, um, global teams.

728

So we would work with the global, um,

comms team at a pharmaceutical company.

729

Yeah.

730

That global comms team would be

responsible for, um, disseminating

731

campaigns down to their local

markets, which the local markets,

732

uh, so countries around the world

would then have to implement.

733

Um, locally.

734

Okay.

735

So what we would do is we would come

up with the global campaign and then we

736

would, um, travel, um, internationally

to visit these local teams and train

737

them on PR essentially, because

they might have been marketing teams

738

that didn't have a PR capability.

739

So I, even back then was

training marketers on what PR is.

740

The basics of PR.

741

Here's your press kit.

742

Here's your press release.

743

Here's your media list.

744

This is now what you need to do

with it in your local country.

745

Yeah.

746

Yeah.

747

Okay.

748

And then, um, when my daughter, so

when B was, I think she was only

749

about one, so about 12 years ago, I

delivered a couple of face to face PR

750

training sessions because even back

then, it's not a million, million

751

years ago, but even back then, I just.

752

I just felt that there were so

many opportunities out there for

753

businesses to do their own PR.

754

Yeah.

755

Um, and I just felt that if they You

know, had a bit of bit of knowledge,

756

you know, and I was able to impart

some of what I've been doing.

757

Yeah.

758

Yeah.

759

Well, I know, then there was so

much they could do themselves.

760

So I really enjoyed that because

that was face to face and we'd

761

have, you know, in real time.

762

come up with press releases and story

ideas and we'd workshop all of that.

763

Um, and then agency life, you know,

running my agency just, you know,

764

got really busy and, you know,

I've always been really lucky.

765

I've, as I said, in my very corporate

buy, I had a healthy roster of clients.

766

Um, But I've invested in coaching for

myself a lot over the last few years.

767

Yeah.

768

Um, which is how I met you.

769

And, um, I've seen how it how

that's sort of benefited me.

770

And it's also opened my

eyes to The online space.

771

Yeah.

772

And the online world is kind of

like, Oh, I could, you know, take

773

what I was doing face to face.

774

Yeah, all your experience of,

you know, X amount of years.

775

Yeah.

776

Yeah.

777

And deliver something

online to anyone, anywhere.

778

So, um, so yeah, so that was, that

was how it, how it came about.

779

It's very much aimed at, it's

aimed at both business owners,

780

but there's also a space.

781

Um, and I did have some marketers

and social media experts, um, I have

782

had some on, in the accelerator.

783

It's also aimed at that, um, that audience

as well, because if you're working in

784

social media or marketing, um, it can

be quite common if, particularly if

785

you're the only one in the team for

a company, that PR will suddenly land

786

on your desk and someone will go, Oh,

can you get us in such and such, or

787

can you send out this press release?

788

And you might be thinking.

789

Oh, okay.

790

Yeah, and it kind of, it can

go hand in hand, can't it?

791

Quite well.

792

Um, but also people think because

you're in social media, then you must

793

be in PR, you must know the background.

794

Um, so I love that.

795

So it's, it's open to

It's open to everyone.

796

And as we said at the beginning, PR, yeah,

it can, it can be really useful for, for

797

you to take on your own PR or, you know,

work with somebody like you that's got

798

that knowledge, got that experience, um,

and doesn't mind getting their hair cut.

799

Live on National.

800

Yeah, exactly.

801

There's a bit of trust

there in you, isn't there?

802

Don't worry, I'm not, I'm not

necessarily teaching that you

803

emailed this morning and, uh, asked

me to go and have your haircut.

804

Um, but yeah, no, it's an eight week, it's

an eight week program, you know, and in

805

those eight weeks, graduates have landed

press coverage, you know, they've been

806

seen in the press in those eight weeks.

807

Yeah, amazing.

808

You can consume the content, you

know, it's on demand content,

809

but there's weekly calls.

810

Yeah.

811

And those calls are really

useful to bounce ideas around.

812

Yeah, absolutely.

813

Get really specific in terms of, you

know, what those questions that you asked

814

me, you know, about sending images or,

you know, what, what, what I found is

815

that we got very much into the detail

of what those emails would look like.

816

Um, and there's a Facebook group.

817

Use the word students, but, you

know, people in the accelerator

818

would share their pitch emails or

press releases in the Facebook group.

819

Yeah.

820

And then they'd get that.

821

Yeah.

822

Lovely.

823

Great.

824

Great.

825

So let's, um, I just realized

the time and this is what I do.

826

I love, I love to talk.

827

Gosh, that's gone quick, hasn't it?

828

I know, but it's good.

829

I've got, I've got, I've got three more

questions I want to ask you actually.

830

So, um, and this is where I would

love to get my, my guests to be

831

really honest and really candid

in, in having their own business.

832

As you said, you've been very

lucky and very lucky, fortunate to

833

have a, a, Good number of clients,

um, and now your accelerator has

834

gone well, which is brilliant.

835

But what would you say have been

your, um, biggest sort of challenges?

836

What's been the hardest thing

for you working by yourself?

837

You know, it was being self employed.

838

Um, is there anything really that

stands out that you think that

839

actually that, that was a real

challenge, but I've overcome it.

840

I think, um, I think it's, I think

it's the working by yourself.

841

I think that is a real,

that is a real challenge.

842

And what sort of, what comes up for

you then by working for yourself?

843

I think, I think because PR is so, uh,

creative, then, um, I mean, I still do

844

miss that, you know, being in a busy.

845

Bustling agency and Yeah.

846

And bouncing, bouncing ideas around.

847

So I think the way that I've overcome

that is, um, I mean, I do have local

848

clients, so I'll, um, I'll go to see them.

849

Right.

850

Um, yeah, getting out

the, investing the office.

851

Yeah.

852

Getting out of the office,

investing in the coaching.

853

So investing in a, you know,

communities and even, even though

854

it's online, you know, having that.

855

Interaction and that sense of that

sense of community with, with other

856

people, particularly, um, you know,

like minded women in business.

857

That's been, um, that's had a huge

sort of positive, positive impact.

858

Um, I think another challenge

has, has, has really been that.

859

I mean, imposter syndrome, don't they?

860

But PR is a very.

861

Um, you know, you generally deal with

the person at the top of the business.

862

Yes.

863

Yeah.

864

So you are kind of very exposed.

865

Mm.

866

You know, in terms of what you do, what

PR can achieve and what PR can deliver.

867

Yeah.

868

And so there can be a lot of

pressure, you know, to deliver.

869

Exactly.

870

Yeah.

871

It's kind of like, so, you know,

so, so, so what's happening?

872

What are, what are you doing?

873

Um.

874

No, and then that pressure isn't

necessarily from the client.

875

It's pressure from, from you, me, internal

pressure, internal, internal pressure.

876

You want to do a good job, don't you?

877

You want to make sure the client

gets what, you know, they, their

878

objectives were and you get

to the end of the objectives.

879

Okay.

880

So how have you learned to, to

overcome that imposter syndrome?

881

That lovely word.

882

Yeah.

883

Yeah.

884

I think again, it comes

back to the coaching.

885

And the, and the community, um, and

because I think when you do that, when

886

you step out of, um, You know, being in,

I mean, I'm in my home office, you know,

887

being in your home office and getting on

with things, you realize that everyone

888

else feels the same, you know, so there

is comfort and there is reassurance

889

in that and then learning, you know,

Learning strategies and sort of things

890

that you can do to help overcome it.

891

And I think it's just a constant,

um, constant learning, isn't it?

892

And working on yourself.

893

Absolutely, yeah.

894

So how do you look after Lindsay F.

895

Grave when you're not with the kids?

896

And I know you've got a dog, as

we said about the dogs earlier.

897

So what do you do just for you?

898

Yeah, um, I mean, I do find this

time of year really hard with the

899

poor light, you know, the darkness.

900

Oh, me too.

901

Oh, I really struggle with January.

902

I think of the blues, but

it's, it's like No, no, no.

903

It's just one Yeah.

904

I'm on spring.

905

Yeah, exactly.

906

Yeah.

907

I think it's the lack of, it's

just the lack of daylight hours.

908

Um, so I, I actually

invested in one of those.

909

Sunrise alarm.

910

Yes.

911

At the start of the year.

912

Oh, happy.

913

Yes.

914

Yeah.

915

So funny.

916

I really like it.

917

I don't think it's made it easy for

me to get out of bed, but it has

918

made the waking up process more.

919

Okay.

920

Less harsh than just being

woken up by my phone alarm.

921

Just going.

922

Yeah, because the light, I mean

even before the sound, because

923

you can set it can't you, to

the light and then the sound.

924

Yeah.

925

But even before the sound.

926

comes on, the light, the gradual

light has woken me up, which just

927

feels so much, so much nicer.

928

I know.

929

For me at the moment, obviously I've

got, um, twins who are nearly four and,

930

and they wake me up, so I don't really

have that problem, but it's the thought

931

that's there and actually the The, um,

uh, the sunset as well, so if you've got

932

on your watch you could do it the other

way so it can go down, so it's quite nice.

933

It's all, it's all new and

exciting at the moment.

934

Yeah, yeah.

935

See what it's like in a couple of months.

936

Yeah, we'll see.

937

Yeah, that's it.

938

And yeah, as I say, it hasn't quite

made me jump out of bed with, you

939

know, all the joys of That's, anyway,

we've gotta try something, haven't we?

940

Well, that's it.

941

Yeah.

942

I thought I'd try something.

943

Um, and then, yeah, like you said,

I've got a dog, so I, it's, I, I,

944

um, get out and walk her in daylight.

945

Yeah, I mean, where I

live, it's a small village.

946

There are no streetlights.

947

So once it gets dark, I'm not

going to be going out across the

948

fields in the pitch dark anyway.

949

Please don't.

950

Please don't.

951

No.

952

Dangerous.

953

Yeah, so it's a case of, yeah,

getting out in the daylight,

954

walking, fresh air, nature.

955

Perfect.

956

I find when I'm out walking, I have,

that's when I have so many ideas.

957

Yeah.

958

Oh, the creative element, isn't it?

959

Yeah.

960

Yeah.

961

Do you take your phone with you?

962

I do.

963

Um, I don't really look at it.

964

Yeah.

965

Um, I might listen to podcasts.

966

Yeah.

967

So I'll listen to, I've been

listening to the Mel Robbins podcast.

968

Oh, she's amazing.

969

Recently.

970

Um, so that's.

971

Pretty good.

972

Um, and then if something comes

to me, I'll do a voice note.

973

Yes.

974

Yeah.

975

Yeah.

976

Yeah.

977

Or my notes page on my phone.

978

But yeah, it's interesting because even

though like, you know, I'm very much

979

the same, get outdoors, change your

environment, get that fresh air into you.

980

Um, Uh, yesterday morning I

went out for a walk with my

981

dog and I didn't take my phone.

982

I was like, it was on,

it needed to charge.

983

I was like, I'm not going to take it.

984

And as I was walking around the corner,

um, there was a massive, um, air

985

ambulance sort of parked, kind of landed

in a, in a field by where I'm living.

986

And I was like, oh, and that's

the only time I went, I wanted

987

my phone to take a picture.

988

Yeah.

989

Yeah.

990

Um, but yeah.

991

Okay.

992

Brilliant.

993

Right.

994

Lindsay has been really,

really great to talk to you.

995

Get to know you a little bit more as well.

996

I love that story of this

morning, your haircut.

997

Literally, if you don't send it to

me, I'm just going to be Googling it.

998

Yeah.

999

It's still there.

00:49:18,690 --> 00:49:20,670

It's still online.

00:49:21,970 --> 00:49:24,104

But that's another thing

with PR, you know, like.

00:49:24,525 --> 00:49:26,355

The fact that that's, how old now?

00:49:26,385 --> 00:49:30,905

15 years old and it's still there,

you know, so if you generate

00:49:31,235 --> 00:49:34,585

coverage for yourself, it lives

on the internet for years.

00:49:34,885 --> 00:49:38,995

And what a brilliant story as well

to, to share with people, you know,

00:49:38,995 --> 00:49:40,795

you can do things for yourself.

00:49:40,825 --> 00:49:44,925

Um, you know, it's just,

and it is, it is timing.

00:49:44,925 --> 00:49:48,115

I think it does come down to, I'm

definitely a big believer in timing.

00:49:48,885 --> 00:49:50,505

Um, fantastic.

00:49:50,515 --> 00:49:50,845

Right.

00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:53,700

What is your favourite cake?

00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:55,390

This is a question I ask all my guests.

00:49:55,630 --> 00:49:56,340

Ooh.

00:49:57,235 --> 00:50:00,615

Um, actually, I've just,

I've just made two batches of

00:50:00,615 --> 00:50:04,525

cupcakes because it, whether it's

something Oh no, are you a baker?

00:50:04,525 --> 00:50:12,334

I, just every now and again, just every

now and again, um I'm so not a baker.

00:50:12,335 --> 00:50:13,895

Um, oh, can I pick one of them?

00:50:14,045 --> 00:50:15,975

I mean, I just love But

what are the cupcakes?

00:50:16,025 --> 00:50:16,455

What are they?

00:50:16,455 --> 00:50:16,995

Tell us, mate.

00:50:16,995 --> 00:50:21,140

They're just, they're just, um

just like traditional vanilla,

00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:26,130

just fairy cakes with water icing,

like from a kid's birthday party.

00:50:26,140 --> 00:50:27,890

Oh, living the dream.

00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:30,340

Just it's simple or a lemon drizzle.

00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:31,250

Oh, there you go.

00:50:31,660 --> 00:50:32,670

Okay, right.

00:50:33,450 --> 00:50:34,290

Bloody lemon drizzle.

00:50:34,290 --> 00:50:35,670

I've got two there, sorry.

00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:36,570

Yeah, yeah.

00:50:36,910 --> 00:50:37,600

Both amazing.

00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,240

I'm a bit obsessed with cakes

and I've eaten, not eating

00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:42,090

like chocolate and stuff.

00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,270

I've been terrible in January, I've

been worse, so anyway, I don't care.

00:50:47,370 --> 00:50:48,270

You're not the only one.

00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:53,860

No, and if anybody, um, does want

to get in touch with you to hear

00:50:53,860 --> 00:50:58,480

more about you, your, your amazing,

um, tips you're sharing and your

00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,110

accelerator, where can we find you?

00:51:00,745 --> 00:51:06,025

Yes, so you can find details on

my accelerator on my website,

00:51:06,025 --> 00:51:09,085

which is lindsay f grave.com.

00:51:09,495 --> 00:51:14,595

Uh, my agency website is announce

pr.com, and then if you follow me on

00:51:14,625 --> 00:51:19,020

Instagram at announce pr, then you

will find all the details on there.

00:51:19,630 --> 00:51:20,500

Amazing.

00:51:20,530 --> 00:51:21,160

Amazing.

00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:22,480

Oh, thanks so much.

00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,110

And thank you very much

for everyone for listening.

00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,390

As always, if you've got any,

um, questions or would like to

00:51:29,410 --> 00:51:33,590

get in touch with, um, myself or

Lindsay, then please do reach out.

00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,800

We love hearing feedback.

00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:41,249

Um, and let us know if you've got

any, uh, meter coverage or anything.

00:51:41,250 --> 00:51:41,610

Yeah.

00:51:41,780 --> 00:51:42,170

Wonderful.

00:51:42,310 --> 00:51:43,370

Thanks so much, Lindsay.

00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:44,690

Thank you, Helen.

00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:45,230

Thank you.

00:51:45,310 --> 00:51:45,650

Bye.