Shownotes
Ever worked somewhere that says people are our greatest asset, but the decisions never reflect it?
John Weathington joins Sana to unpack what a genuinely people centered organization looks like, and how to grow without pushing your best people away.
About the Guest:
John Weathington has spent over thirty years working with CEOs, senior leaders and executive teams across Fortune 100 and global organizations, helping companies scale from early growth to multibillion dollar operations. He wrote Grow Your Business Up, offering practical frameworks for building people centered organizations.
Key Takeaways:
- People are our greatest asset often hides a mismatch between what leaders say and what they actually design for.
- A people centered culture means people thrive and do their best work, not just that leaders say the right words.
- In hyper growth, culture should anchor every design decision. When strategy and culture conflict, culture wins.
- You don't need a people centered culture to succeed, but you do if human ingenuity drives your advantage.
- Look at your last three major decisions. Ask which were made with your people genuinely at the center.
Connect With the Guest:
Website: https://xmsystems.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnweathington/
Book: Grow Your Business Up (Amazon)
Episode Chapters:
[00:00] Cold open: the phrase that means almost nothing anymore
[01:10] Welcome to BizBlend and meet John Weathington
[03:04] What a people centered organization actually looks like from the inside
[06:39] Amazon, the Great Resignation, and the signs of a culture that isn't people first
[14:14] Dharma: designing culture as the anchor for every other decision
[22:28] The counterargument: is people centered just more comfortable, or genuinely better?
[32:07] What sustained, compounding performance actually looks like on a real team
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Transcripts
0:00:00 Sana: Every leadership conversation uses this particular phrase, but then it also means almost nothing in most of them. And don't get me wrong, listeners, but then how many of you would. Okay, especially for someone who probably is not in the leadership position, you must have heard this phrase people are our greatest asset. It does appear in annual reports on boarding decks, HR presentations, um, induction programs, training programs, CEO speeches, I mean, everywhere. You know, we are family. People are our greatest asset. And it really changes how organizations actually make decisions, design systems or allocate resources. So for this episode, we talk about what it actually looks like in practice when an organization genuinely means it.
00:01:10 Sana: So listeners, you're tuning into the podcast, I am Sana, and as you all know, this is the podcast where we blend the human side of work with the real mechanics of building something that lasts. And listeners, today, I'm sitting with someone who has spent over thirty years working with CEOs, senior leaders, and executive teams across fortune one hundred and global organizations. He has helped companies scale from an early growth to multibillion dollar operations, and he has also written a book which is called Grow Your Business Up with Practical Science based Frameworks for exactly this. So let's welcome our guest, John Worthington. John, welcome to the show. And it is such a joy having you here.
00:02:03 John Weathington: Oh, it's great being here. Thanks a lot for having me on. This is exciting.
00:02:08 Sana: Totally, totally. John. Uh, I'll start with, the something kind of an ironic that I mentioned, um, in the intro that. Yes. and this I have, I've hosted so many guests, we, we all deep down we are aware, you know, let's say as a leader, I know that, people are my greatest asset. And this also stands the same in the age of AI as well. But then the examples that we are looking right now, they do not exactly, uh, portray that out loud. They do not exactly follow this out loud. And this is phrase is at the heart of your work, people centered organizations. So what exactly do you mean by this, John? What does an organization that is not people centered look like from the inside?
00:03:04 John Weathington: Yeah, I think that that's a great question. And I echo your sentiments, where, uh, what we're, you know, what we see over and over again is leaders espouse the values of people being their greatest asset. They don't always say it that way, but it always takes some that sort of flavor where, you know, where they're implying that people are first. Um, and then unfortunately, when you go into organizations, um, and like you said, I've, I've been into many, many different organizations, different industries, different kinds of leaders. Um, and, but this is a pattern that you see a lot where, you know, what we call it is an organizational cognitive dissonance, right? Where what you, what you see is not what they say. Um, and so, you know, I'm in the very fortunate position of, um, uh, being trusted. Um, and I also have the responsibility to call out leaders. Um, when I see something that is incongruent or incongruous with what they say. So, um, I've had the opportunity to really have these kinds of discussions with leaders. And it's important in strategy and. Org design work because I need to get at the truth of how they feel. Um, you know, whether that's a private conversation or not. And if they really don't mean that, then we have to design the organization a different way. Um, but if they really mean that, then we have to design the organization a different way, right? Because the organization is not demonstrating the value that they espouse. Right. So let me get back to your, um, your question. Um, sorry for the long winded introduction, but I think that that's important for people to recognize that that's real. I've been in organizations and I've seen this over and over and over again. So it's not just something that people say, Um, I think that there's two different views. I mean, from an extra perceptive view, uh, meaning, you know, you're at the organization looking out into the competitive landscape and you're one player in the competitive landscape. I think, um, I think a people centered organization is an organization where, you know, people and culture are favored in all the strategic decisions that that organization makes. Um, and so I'm going to do this sort of by giving you an example of a good people centered organization is. And then in direct answer to your question, what it's not is just the opposite, right. So, um, and from an. So that's Exteroceptive, um, from an introspective standpoint, an organization, you know, a people centered organization is an organization where people thrive and they do their best work. So, um, they, they, they really enjoy their work. They really like going to work, they enjoy it. Um, and the leaders have developed an environment where that's possible, where you can show up to work, really enjoy yourself, do your best work.
00:05:53 Sana: Okay. So if you can give an example. Like what? Okay, you defined what a people centered organization look like, but then what a, what an organization, which may say that it is people centered, but it is not actually like, are there any, any examples like, you know, like, um. Very simple daily tasks related examples where it can be realized that it is not people centered. I mean, deep down, I think our listeners would know, but then because you have, so much of work, you had discussions with leaders. So if you can, kind of give not a list, but yeah, some of the signals.
00:06:39 John Weathington: Well, yeah, I can give you a, a reference point. If you look at what Amazon just did. Now I'm not inside Amazon right now, so I can't speak personally for what. Um, you know what they're thinking as leaders. Um, but, you know, the signs are there, right where you've got, you know, thousands of job cuts. And my understanding is that a lot of these people, um, had no idea that it was coming. Um, and so literally getting fired by text. Uh, so I mean, we're going on the extreme, but that obviously, you know, you know, shows at least to a certain extent. Um, that, and I, like I said, I'm not accusing Amazon and everything, but it, you know, it's a symptom of a company that's not really, um, taking a, a human view of their organization, if they're willing to just fire thousands of people by text. Right. Mhm. Um, um, but yeah, I mean, you see this all over the place. If you sort of what, what inspired some of the writing in the book that you mentioned? Thanks for mentioning my book though. Um, but as we went through Covid, we also went through the great Resignation where we were losing tens of thousands of people from the job market or entering the job. Entering the job market people. Tens of thousands at a clip, right? Every single month. Right. And so that's amazing. I mean, that that'll, that'll tell you that something is happening with these people. And most of the people are quitting without having another job lined up. Mhm. That's how serious it is. And so, you know, like, and I haven't been in all of those companies when it was happening. You know, I had only been consulting with a few when it was happening, but I, I can assure you that to drive somebody to walk out of an organization without having another job lined up, they must have created a very toxic environment for that employee. Um, and the responsibility lies squarely on the leadership. Um, you know, there are some cases where they might leave because of, um, you know, things that are happening to them because of what the other people are doing, sexual harassment or whatever, have any kind of harassment or, or something. But in, in almost every single case. It's just leaders not treating their people well.
00:08:52 Sana: Mhm.
00:08:53 John Weathington: I've had a situation. I'll give you another example. I, I, I was in a situation with um, a non tech company, um, but very large and global where they had sort of this implicit policy that they would not fire supervisors for any reason. Oh. Um, once you, once you made it to supervisor, you pretty much had that job for life. Um, and so what that fostered were very, very bad actors when it came to supervisors, right? Because they knew that, you know, there was no consequence for, for the way that they acted. And so, you know, in some cases they would just treat their employees, you know, um, you know, horribly.
00:09:35 Speaker 3: Um, that's a bit of BS with due respect.
00:09:41 John Weathington: And we're not talking about the Bachelor of Science here. Yeah, you're right, you're right.
00:09:49 Sana: And, um, I mean, I, I, I've been, uh, I've been a part of Amazon, um, for.
00:09:57 John Weathington: Oh, man.
00:09:58 Sana: six years and, uh, some of my best, uh, years I've spent there, but this was way back in, uh, twenty seventeen. Beautiful. And I, I've seen a shift, especially during pandemic. Um, at least, you know, I was really thankful. Unfortunately, unfortunately, but in an, in an industry which actually saw a huge spike during the lockdown, e-commerce, e-commerce, edtech and massive hiring, hiring right and left and center, massive, you know, because of course, now the demand was up. So the hiring was crazy. But then something kind of, gradually, not even gradually, John, but it just shifted right after the lockdown, right after the I think we had the very first rounds of lay off. Um, during, uh, yeah, of course, during pandemic because the companies were shutting down, the industries were getting affected. But then, um, these massive rounds of layoffs, you know, the numbers, these were, these were not just single digit or double digit numbers, like one thousand, ten thousand.
00:11:14 John Weathington: thirty thousand.
00:11:15 Sana: And, um, I think that that has created.
00:11:19 John Weathington: And often with no explanation, often with no explanation. Right. And so I, I wasn't at Amazon when that happened, but, um, there must have been somebody, a shift in strategy, right? I mean, you don't just wake up one day and, and say, hey, I don't want to treat my people right. There must have been some sort of shift in strategy, but they don't communicate that to the workforce. Nope. They don't engage the workforce with whatever their new strategy is. Um, and then they just lay tens of thousands of people off. This is what we mean. This is what I mean by the, the, the, um, the, you know, the opposite of a people centered kind of culture. That's not right. And it's funny, we're bringing, we're talking about Amazon. You know, in the book, I write a lot about, um, Silicon Valley companies. Um, and for the, and so I can't include Amazon. Um, but, um, but I always considered them kind of a close cousin, right. For the longest time, because it seemed like they were exhibiting a lot of the values that you found, you know, in Apple and Facebook and, and, you know, all of the iconic companies that I write about in the book. Um, and then, and all of a sudden it's like, wait a second, what are you guys doing? Right.
00:12:28 Sana: Exactly.
00:12:29 John Weathington: It's too bad.
00:12:31 Sana: I mean, these were like, you know, these, these are still like the dream companies in their, you know, I mean, especially in India, people would kill to work, um, in these companies, because. Yes. Um, some, some of the, the character building, the culture, building the values, the, the things that I've learned working with, and I think it's, it's connected with the people, the people that I work with, the leaders, the managers, the colleagues that I've worked with some of the best years, John, uh, very formative in my career and I honestly owe it to them. But then at the same time, I kind of now feel like, um, you know, let's just move on from that.
00:13:14 John Weathington: Mhm. Yeah. No, it's so true. Right. those are the best experiences in my life as well. not only working around great people, but working around great leaders. It's so inspiring. It is when, when, when you have the opportunity to work under a great leader. I just, I think it's fantastic. And it's and then it's sort of unfortunately gives you that perspective of when you, when you, have to work with people that aren't so great as leaders, then you, you, I'm going to say this kind of tongue in cheek, but you unfortunately have that experience of perspective. I know what good looks like. And this isn't good, right? It is not. Yeah.
00:13:56 Sana: It is not. Okay. And John, I also want to go into, um, the design aspect of this, um, because you specifically mentioned people centered design as a part of your work. So what do you mean by that?
00:14:14 John Weathington: Yeah. So, um, I do a few different things for organizations, one of which is org design. Um, an organization will call me in if they're undergoing some or even considering some sort of, you know, transformational change. Um, and they need a new design of their organization, meaning, um, you know, the structure is going to change or. You know, the, you know, any, any one of the elements of org design are going to change. It could be the way that value flows through the organization. It could be their workflows, it could be their processes. But some something needs to change, right? If you're going to transform the organization, the fundamental design of that organization needs to change. Um, I have, and there's, there's a few different models that are floating out there. I have my own, um, but it's called Dharma. Um, but yeah, yeah. Uh, stands for, oh, let me, it's my model. Let me make sure I get it right. Uh, design harmony. Uh, oh, I sorry. Dharma. Um, yeah, just a, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, design harmony alignment and reinforcement modeling approach. Oh, wow. That's a mouthful. I call it dharma and, and sort of the graphics that I have in the book, it's kind of modeled after the Dharma wheel. Um, but one of those, you know, one of those, uh, points on the Dharma wheel is culture for me. Um, and so when we're looking at the org design, if it's a people centered design, um, what happens is you have to sort of anchor all of the rest of your design decisions on, uh, the culture. So what you end up doing is you design the culture, um, a good culture, whatever good, where however you define good in your terms as it meets your strategy. Um, and I, and if you don't mind, I'd like to talk about that comment I just made in a minute. But whatever your strategy is, you have to design that culture to fit that your strategy, right? Your, your fundamental strategy. Um, and then as you start balancing the different elements of the design, whether it's going to be, um, the way that, uh, you know, the way that value flows through your organization or whatever your reward system is. Um, even elements like your brand and image, this is an element of dharma that you don't see in org design too much, but I feel it's important. Like, how are you perceived from the outside world? What is your image look like? Um, what are you contributing to the larger society? That's another element. It's called contribution. But all of these decisions that you make start with the start with what you design into your culture, and then your culture doesn't move. Um, the way the word that I use is, um, a post you post on culture, culture is your post. And then as you, and so as you make decisions around your org design, you have to balance everything so that everything comes into alignment. Um, you can't have like, you know, a design, an org design that's out of alignment. That's like, you know, trying to ride a bicycle with tweaked wheels. It doesn't work. So as you're rebalancing this organization with all the other, if you're using Dharma, the other seven elements of Dharma, um, you never, you never compromise. What happens with your culture? you always compromise all the other elements. And one of those elements is strategy. And so what I write about in the book is even if you have sort of a real critical and tough decision where you have to either make a decision about your culture or decision about your strategy in order to balance your organization, you actually make the decision in favor of the culture, not the strategy. You change your strategy to fit your culture if if it's out of alignment. So that's what I mean by a culture, you know, a people centered design or a people first design. Yeah.
00:18:00 Sana: Mhm. And, a bit bit of a contradictory kind of question here, John. I mean, first of all. And because, you, you are coming with thirty years of experience inside organizations, first of all, first of all, and this is a bit off script. Um, sure. When when you, uh. Now, let's say a leader is approaching you. Um, and they actually want to do a course correction or maybe kind of a diagnosis to begin with. And then the course correction. Um, that means their heart is at the right place. They're well intentioned, but then I think it's not just about, um, the change of strategy, but then it's also a bit internal here, John, you know, because it kind of also demands a shift in the, in the leader themselves or maybe leadership. I don't know, I may be right or wrong, I don't know.
00:19:04 John Weathington: But then you're one hundred percent right. Yeah. Um, and what I think what you're getting at is the logic and emotion of it. All right. And I devote two different, I devote two different chapters, one on the, uh, on, on, on this aspect of leadership in in several places in the book, actually, where there's a logical component of it and there's an emotional component of it. Um, and so, you know, you can, you can rationalize all you want and have and come up with good rational reasons why you need to do something. But then there's also an emotional commitment. You have to be as a leader. You have to be emotionally committed. Um, like, say we're talking about a people first organization. You have to be emotionally committed to doing that. Um, in order to proceed. Uh, the, the title of my third chapter is called are you sure about this? Right. You know, so yeah, so, so the first chapter is kind of a setup. And then the second chapter is, oh, what? You know, it's actually called, what the hell am I supposed to do about this now? Right. And that's the logical, that's the logical aspect of undergoing a transformation. Um, um, and, uh, in, in, in my case, you know, the implied protagonist is a leader that's trying to grow, um, by leaps and bounds, right? And, um, they realize that their human ingenuity, their people are their competitive advantage. And so not only do they need to grow, but they need to take their people along with them. They have to grow without pushing their people away. Right. Um, and so the second chapter is. All right. Well, what the hell am I supposed to do now? Um, but then the third chapter is, hey, are you sure about this? So it goes to what you're talking about. It goes to that sort of emotional commitment that's required in order to go to the next step and actually start putting a strategy together.
00:20:58 Sana: Mhm. And, another point which I want to make in, um, yeah, I just don't want to throw everything at you, John, but then.
00:21:08 John Weathington: Go.
00:21:08 Sana: Ahead. Maybe, uh, maybe there can be a counterargument, uh, which is also not playing a devil's advocate, but then it's equally strong. If we look at the way, we have seen the most commercially successful organizations in history. Um, probably listeners can get a hint from that itself, but then they have been very explicitly not people centered. They have been demanding high pressure, sometimes brutal environments. John. I've worked in startups, I've worked with some great founders. I've worked with some not great founders. But then, um, but then, you know, I've, I've seen, um, yeah, I think, uh, the time has been the best, uh, uh, answer for them. But then I've, I've seen that, you know, how the people center doesn't look like not much of an experience, but at least, you know, from my vantage point. But then these successfully commercial organizations have been commercially successful. Sorry, organizations, they have produced extraordinary things. So is the people centered model genuinely better? Or is it just more comfortable at the cost of being less exceptional?
00:22:28 John Weathington: It's a great question. And the, the answer, um, is that you don't need a people centered organization to be successful. Um, but yeah, no, you don't um, either. Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of organizations out there that are wildly successful and, you know, without really much care for their people. Um, they, they can cross a line. Right. And that's why we have workplace laws in place. Mhm. Um, what does matter though, is your strategy. Uh, because you can do that, but you need to have the right strategy in order to pull that off. Um, and what I mean by that is, you know, I talk about an egocentric strategy and an or egocentric, um, perspective and an Alice centric perspective when you're approaching strategy. And the difference is an allocentric organization needs to. It's similar to extracellular, right? It, they, they're looking into the business environment and they are looking at themselves as part of that environment and their primary, you know, driver is to attract customers and attract, you know, um, um, you know, you know, offer products and services into the organizations that cater to the needs of their customers. Right.
00:23:54 Sana: Right.
00:23:55 John Weathington: then, you know, then there's an egocentric perspective where, um, you take, uh, Lego, for example. Mhm. They're, they're the kind of company that has pretty much dialed in who their customers are. Um, they have one product or, you know, they tried different things, but it didn't work. They have a product that works very, very well. Yep. Um, and so what their focus is more egocentric and not in a bad way, but just egocentric. And where I know who my market is, I know what my product is. And so really the focus of my organization from a design standpoint and from a strategy standpoint is just to make this, you know, uh, make this process as efficient as possible. The process of getting my raw materials and creating my Legos and delivering it to the, my customer who's going nowhere. I just need to make that as efficient as possible. Um, and so if you run an organization like that and you are in a situation where your market's not going anywhere and you know what your product or your service is, and really it's all about efficiency. Um, yeah, you can get away with and I, you know, I, I'm, I'm being a little editorial here, but you can get away with not focusing as much on people. Now you're going to start getting back into traditional Six Sigma design, right? Where, you know, you can lean out an organization by, you know, cutting the waist. And unfortunately, what happens is waste people fall into that category of waste. You, you're not really looking at people as people. They're just cost, you know, and anything that you can do to reduce cost is going to, you know, make you more efficient. So, and I, and I, you know, I hate having this discussion, but it's the honest truth. You can, you can do that and be successful. Um, however, you know, if you're an Alice centric organization and your strategic advantage is based on your human ingenuity of your people. Um, and you saw that a lot, uh, with the, uh, early Silicon Valley companies. That's kind of that's where I cut my teeth, by the way. And that's that's where I get my inspiration from because I was there. I, I was there in the boom of Silicon Valley when we were doing fantastic things. But, and, but, you know, all of those companies, you take Apple as the, as the Paragon, right? As the, as the perfect example, um, human ingenuity is at the core of their strategic advantage without humans coming up with just fantastic ideas, that company doesn't exist. Um, and so if human ingenuity is at the core of your strategy, then you are not going to be successful as a company if you do not take care of your people, your people will leave. And with and with them will go your strategic advantage.
00:26:55 Sana: Um, I know, I know, it's, it's, um, it's definitely, uh, an important, very, very important, um question and but then what, what is the motivation here, John, for any leader because here, and it's very cliche, unfortunately, and I don't buy that, but still, just for the sake of being a host of a business podcast, I would say, yeah, at the end of the day, you have to look at efficiency, profit and loss. Your output, irrespective of, the people like let's, let's take the example of AI bots here. Um, if I see that, I don't have to, uh, it may sound bizarre, but then kind of, you know, quote unquote the practical, the pragmatic way, if I do not want to handle the, the hassle of, uh, having people and I can cut the cost, I can cut the time to handle all this, the stuff and just have, you know, some AI bots doing the work in there. Um, why wouldn't I? Because I, I, I, my, I want my company to be successful. So what's, what's the motivation here? If I want a future generally as a, as a leader, probably as a future leader, I want to build a people centered organization because I'm not just only focusing on the profit and loss or the, the financial or the commercial aspect of it. But then I also want to make sure that, um, I want to leave a different kind of impact through my company.
00:28:40 John Weathington: Well, I'll tell you, um, and I'm going to speak strictly from a strategic standpoint, um, you can go altruistic and say, well, I want to do it because I care for people and I want the people in my organization to be happy. Good for you. Right? But, you know, there have been the, the, the history annals of are littered with companies, Silicon Valley companies that that invested too much in their humans and, didn't have, um, a competitive advantage as a result of it. And now that now we don't hear about them anymore. Right. So you can overcorrect in that area, but as a, as a leader, um, having the chief responsibility of owning your strategy and what your strategy is, if you are, if, if you, if your competitive advantage is centered on human ingenuity, then your people are more than just, um, a bunch of humans in your organization that help you get where you want to go. Your humans are Are at the core of your strategic advantage. So without. Why would you want to do it? Because you would need you. Would you need those people in order to innovate? You need those people in order to grow. You need those people in order to zig and zag. When your competitors do something, you weren't expected. You're not going to figure everything out on your own. You need. You need your people and their ingenuity in order to navigate those waters. There's no AI that's going to do that. AI can help you do that. But no AI is going to replace human ingenuity ever. So so that's the reason why strategically, as a leader, you would want to invest in not any kind of people either. And again, you know, this might be a little bit edgy because if we're talking about AI bots replacing people that can do sort of menial tasks. I think you should do that. Um, I there's no reason why you shouldn't do that. And I feel bad for the jobs that are displaced as a result of AI taking over tasks that don't require your prefrontal cortex or, you know, high level executive function of your brain. Um, but that's been the story of our history for as long as we've been, you know, an industrial nation, right? Um, that's just a reality. Technology is always going to displace, you know, um, people that can be replaced. Um, and, and even now, I mean, the AI is going to replace people that can be replaced. Um, but there's a, there's a, there's a, there's an aspect of running an organization that involves harnessing the brilliance, the human ingenuity, ingenuity and brilliance of your organization. Now, if that means anything to you as a leader, then you have to treat your people well. They're not going to be inspired if you're not treating them well, and you're not going to get any output from their human ingenuity if you stifle it. So that's why you would want to invest in people that's solid.
00:32:07 Sana: Honestly, John, I think, uh, I think, uh, it's once again. A people centered culture. It, because I have been a part of it and I can, I can vouch for it that, and, and this is not just a company, but it can be, you know, teams, you can actually experience that. You know, there are teams who are very much people centered. There will be teams who are not. So I have been a part of both. And I can say, um, that it does produce sustained and it's a compounding performance across, um, Across broader talent. And, um, of course, without the, the attrition, because I have been a part of team where we still had that team of twenty five people for four years. Of course, you know, I got into another team, I changed my department. So but then they were still there and they were thriving. They were thriving. We all we were happily, you know, going for work. We were happily, if we are not performing, uh, we were not achieving our targets, of course, you know, but then we genuinely felt that accountability to or, or that call to take calling to take that responsibility that yes, uh, we take that ownership and we will work on this. But then, uh, I think what, what you are, are pointing towards is a very practical and not a romanticized version of promoting people centered organization or culture.
00:33:52 John Weathington: You know? That's right. And it helps with the emotional commitment as well. Um, it, it really sort of prevents sort of these, um, you know, zero calorie platitudes where people say people are my greatest asset and then they just don't mean it at all. Um, I like what you said about teams too. I mean, if you look at the subtitle of my book, so, um, and by the way, grow your business up, uh, that wasn't, that wasn't the title I chose. That was that I wanted to call the book. I wanted to call the book precocious. Um, but my publishers hated that because nobody's going to go on Amazon and search for the word precocious.
00:34:32 Speaker 4: Precocious. Yeah.
00:34:34 John Weathington: Right. But, uh, but if you. But they, but they let me keep the word in the subtitle. And so the, the full, you know, title with, um with subtitle is Grow Your Business up unlocking the full potential of gifted and precocious organizations. Um, and that can go down to the team level too. And so again, you know, if you realize that you have a team like the team that it sounds like you're describing, where you have real precocious talent in that team, what do I mean by that? Right? I mean, they're, they're advanced beyond their maturity. Um, if you happen to be and, and by the way, you know, you, you can have a team of, you can have a group of precocious individuals that don't come together as a precocious team. Um, and a precocious team doesn't require all precocious individuals. Right. And so at the group level, if you realize that you're sitting on a precocious group as a leader. Wow. I mean, what a gift, right? And so what my book does is help, help you understand what you're dealing with. and and really how to get the most value out of a team like that, especially if you're in a hypergrowth situation where you need to grow. Um, and this is going to happen when you, when you have a precocious group of people, because what happens is if you treat them well, then what you then you know, what you present to the marketplace is exceptional. Okay. This is what happened with a lot of Silicon Valley companies. They really sort of embraced the human ingenuity of their people. They worked they had precocious groups in their organization and they said, you know what? I'm going to I'm going to use this to create an offering into the marketplace. And guess what? That offering hit the marketplace in a huge way. Market demand responded in an overwhelming way. So you have people markets out there saying, hey, I want this, I want this, this is great, I want this. And now all of a sudden you have, um, a very Envious but scary situation that the leader is in, where they have more demand than their organization is capable of delivering. And so now you're in a hyper growth situation. You're demanded to grow. But in order to do that, you have to bring your people along with you. If you if you accelerate into hyper growth and you do it in a way that pushes all your people away, there goes your competitive advantage. You're done. You're soup.
00:37:06 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
00:37:09 John Weathington: So that's what my book's about. It's about helping leaders navigate that. And I, and you could say, well, it's, it's a Renaissance book. No it's not. I mean, I, I feel like, yeah, you can look back at the glory days of Silicon Valley, but I don't think we're done with tech. If you look at the if you look at when the bubble burst, I don't know how old you are, but if you're old enough to be around. When the bubble burst on us back in the late nineties, um, it it definitely bust on us. I mean, we have more in our pocket that we need to do from a technology standpoint. And you see that in the surge of AI right now, as soon as we get the capabilities, you know, and as soon as the, you know, as soon as the timing is, uh, or the environment is, uh, you know, comes back to a place where technology can take off, it's going to take off. We were not done in the late nineties. We had the rug pulled out from under us. And so what I mean, you know, what I where I'm going with all of this is I feel like this burst of AI is only the beginning. I think that you're we're going back into a situation where hyper growth is going to become necessary because technology is pushing the envelope again, and certain companies are going to realize that I have some bright people in my company. Let's see if we can create a product or a service or both, that we're where we can get a response out of the market. And I'll tell you what, If they put those, if they you know, if they draw the the right lines between those dots and create a compelling offering, you're going to those companies are going to be in the same situation as those Silicon Valley companies in the nineties. And so we're going to have leaders out there that are going to need to know how to navigate that.
00:38:53 Speaker 4: I think, um.
00:38:56 Sana: I'm feeling that, that this is going to age, uh, age very well, you know, age like a fine wine and, and, and I get that deja vu, but not because I have, I have, uh, lived it, but then I've seen many of my seniors talking about it. Um, and, uh, as you mentioned, it's, it's a, it's a cycle, uh, although the, it's, it's a hypergrowth situation. And, and this is happening at a faster rate, uh, probably because we are in a very connected, globally connected and globally dependent and digitised, you know, world right now. So effects may look multiplied, but this is a cycle. But that doesn't mean that you know us. We just glide past it or we just sit and do nothing. But it definitely demands, uh, for, uh, you know, a shift toward a people centered approach.
00:39:59 John Weathington: One hundred percent. Right. Um, what what we don't hear about are the companies from Silicon Valley that fell by the wayside because they decided, um, they, they turned their back on their people.
00:40:12 Speaker 4: Mhm.
00:40:13 John Weathington: Um, this, there was a lot more companies that did that than held on, you know, for dear life as they were accelerating through this growth curve and did all the right things with their people so that they would stick around. Um, so that they can continue to deliver value into the marketplace, which is what you need to do in order to, to sustain a business, you have to, um, you know, unless you're the government and, you know, I don't get me started on that. Yeah. Um, but, but, but, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're in, you know, a private company, if you're in the private sector, uh, or even like a nonprofit, right. Um, you need to, you need to pay attention to your customers. Without customers, you have no business. Um, and so like we said before, I mean, you can cater your customers without catering to your employees, but you, you better make sure you have the right strategy and or design to do that. Um, but, but if you, if you really want, um, if you really want to run a company where your customers are happy and your employees are happy and you have these overwhelming, what I call unassailable competitive advantage, that's possible. You know, sometimes I feel like leaders feel like there's a tension that that's where that's the impetus for the, you know, divisiveness between the people and the leaders of the organization. As soon as you start thinking that your competitive advantage is in competition with your people, then that's a dangerous road to go down. If you care about using your harnessing the human ingenuity of your company. Um, but, you know, I would encourage leaders to throw that belief out the window that that's not, that's, that's not a, that's not a tenable belief. You can, you can have a very strong competitive advantage. You can also have an environment, uh, an organization where people thrive and do their best work. You can have your cake and you can eat it too, but you have to make sure that you get the strategy and the design right. And, and the design is going to be a people first design. And the strategy is going to be, um, a people centered or human centered strategy.
00:42:34 Speaker 4: That's brilliant. That's brilliant.
00:42:36 Sana: And, John, before we wrap this up, I'm very sure our listeners would be so, so eager to reach out to you and check out your book. Um, I'm going to call it precocious, but yes, your business up.
00:42:53 John Weathington: I love it. Hey, when I get the rights to the title back, that book name is changing. It's going to be I'm changing it back to precocious.
00:43:05 Sana: So yes, John, how how they can reach out to you.
00:43:08 John Weathington: Yeah, sure. No, I appreciate the question. So you can reach out to me at John dot com. Um, I, you know, or, uh, XM systems dot com. Uh, my company name is excellent management systems. And so you can do that. Uh, you can also go to Amazon, you know, and Google don't Google precocious because because my publishers are right. But what you can do is go to Amazon and look up, um, grow your business up or my name, John Weathington. Um, that's w e a t h I n g t o n. Um, and um, you'll find me, you'll find me on Amazon and that'll, that'll lead those, those words will lead you to me if you have any questions.
00:43:46 Sana: I'm brilliant. So listen, I'm going to drop all the links in the show notes.
00:43:50 John Weathington: Oh perfect. Thank you Sean.
00:43:52 Sana: Thank you. Thank you. And John, thank you so much because, um, this was sharp grounded, but at the same time, uh, I think, you know, still, uh, there, I'm not going to say sliver of hope, but yes, this is going to age like fine wine. And, um, I think it will definitely send a leader back to look at their own systems with a fresh pair of eyes. Uh, not literally, but of course figuratively. Um, but then, Thank you so much, John.
00:44:24 John Weathington: Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
00:44:26 Sana: Yeah. And to all the listeners, especially to the leader listening to this, um, who has said that people are our greatest asset and then probably wondered that why the culture does not quite reflect back. Okay, maybe just, just look back at your last major decisions, like three major decisions. And then you ask which one was made with the people inside this org at the center of the thinking? That answer will give you the mirror about your real culture. Then any values document or PDF. But then you have been listening to this plan. Take care of your people, take care of yourself and do follow the Best Blend podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. I am Sana. I'll be back soon. Thank you so much.
