Writing books is hard. But turning writing into a full-time business? That’s a whole new level of challenge.

Valerie Francis, a professional novelist and literary editor, was trapped in a cycle that many creatives know too well- exhaustion, burnout, and the constant struggle to scale.

She loved working one-on-one with writers, but the work wasn’t sustainable. Every dollar she earned was tied to her being present, and when life threw curveballs, everything ground to a halt.

That’s when Valerie decided to change the game. In less than a year, she transformed her business, filling up her coaching calendar and selling over 500 digital courses – without losing her sanity.

How did she do it? Let’s dive into her journey and the strategies that made it possible.

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This is hands down the most predictable, plug-and-play way to double your earnings per email subscriber. It allows you to generate a consistent sales flow without launching another product, service, or offer. Best news yet? You won't have to rely on copywriting, slimy persuasion, NLP, or ‘better' subject lines.

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00:00.49

Kennedy Kennedy

How does a professional novelist and literary editor, can't even believe I was able to pronounce that correctly, how does that person build a business where they can be earning money even when they can't show up? That's what we're gonna talk about in today's show.

00:44.05

Kennedy Kennedy

Happy email marketing Wednesday. Hello, it's Kennedy and thanks for joining me on the show today. We are, we're here every single week, how do you believe it? as So if you haven't already hit subscribe on your podcast player, what the hell are you doing? Hit subscribe and make sure that you don't miss a single episode of the show. Here's what's crazy, is the only way more people find out about this show is if people like you listening right now, tell other people about the show.

01:11.98

Kennedy Kennedy

So do me and some of your friends a favor. Go and think about right now, who is one friend who you know is trying to build their business, who you know they could do better email marketing and bring more business in that way. Share this episode with that person. They'll be really grateful and I'll be so grateful that we got to send this out to more people and help even more people. So thanks for doing that for every one of you who's doing it.

01:38.74

Kennedy Kennedy

so this week i thought we would chat to one of our clients we do this every now and again chat to a client find out what's going on in their business and really look at the the wins that they've had and the secrets to what that that actually created that success so i'm really excited to welcome valerie francis who is a is an author, a fiction author, a novelist, and also has been helping lots of other authors, novelists, and screenwriters to create and refine their work to make it in this busy world of authorship.

02:15.65

Kennedy Kennedy

So Valerie, welcome to the show.

02:18.44

Valerie

Thank you very much, Kennedy.

02:20.09

Kennedy Kennedy

It's good to see you. Thanks for being here. First of all, ah before we get into the actual email marketing stuff, you will live in my favorite place in the world.

02:29.04

Valerie

And my favorite place too.

02:31.13

Kennedy Kennedy

So i don't you won't know this, but the the background of my my laptop computer, which I obviously travel the world with, is a photo of the harbour sort of area in St. John's, Newfoundland, where you live.

02:47.90

Valerie

ah ah Well, you're going to have to come and visit. I'll take you to all the best places.

02:50.43

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, I mean, we loved it. We loved it. we um When I was back back in the day when I was doing cruise ship gigs, um they um my agent called me and said, do you wanna go from New York City to Newfoundland? And we were like, yeah, yeah, we do. So we flew across to New York, had a couple of days in New York City, saw some shows, did all the all the things. um And then we got on the ship and we went to various places along the route. I can't remember any of the places apart from St.

03:19.08

Kennedy Kennedy

John's, Newfoundland, where we extended the trip and stayed an extra couple of days and had just a lovely, lovely time. We didn't get screeched in.

03:27.33

Valerie

ah Listen, I will screech you in. When you come over next time, I will arrange it.

03:29.29

Kennedy Kennedy

Thank you.

03:31.55

Valerie

The person who is he's sort of like the king of screech-ins, I actually know. He's a friend of mine, so we'll get it done right.

03:36.68

Kennedy Kennedy

There you go. We'll get it done right. Anybody who's listening thinking, what are these people talking about? Do you want to just describe what to be screeched in really means?

03:48.57

Valerie

It's to be made an honorary Newfoundlander. That's what it's all about.

03:51.13

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah show yes yeah it's supposed to be quite strong isn't it yeah yeah are you a fan the that's why they call it screech there you go that's why they call

03:52.12

Valerie

It's a ceremony where you have to recite um some things that i I won't give away, and you have to kiss a cod at the end of it, and you have to drink some screech, which is ah very dark rum made here.

04:08.46

Valerie

It's very strong.

04:11.34

Valerie

No.

04:15.61

Valerie

That's right. i I like the lining of my stomach. I'm not going to have any of that.

04:18.93

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it. but I want a way to welcome people in.

04:23.36

Valerie

That's right.

04:24.45

Kennedy Kennedy

So tell us a bit about your business. I mean, obviously, we've we've been working together for a little while now and you've been in our email here, a blueprint program for but a little while. And you're one of those people, you show up to a lot of the the live sessions that we have, but also you're quietly working away.

04:41.95

Kennedy Kennedy

on the stuff in the background, you're not much of a sort of braggy person who drops into our community he often goes, I've just done this, I've just done that. But, um but I've been hearing about your results. And you've been doing some amazing things. So before we get into what your results are, give us a picture of before we started working together, what was your business then? Because there was a change you were trying to make. And I want to get into that.

05:04.17

Valerie

Yeah, for sure. So as a literary editor, my business was 100% one-on-one called ah consulting. So I would work one-on-one with another writer, could be a novelist or a memoirist or screenwriter, on their manuscript, on their whatever it is they were trying to write. And I love doing that work. I really love doing that work. The challenge for me as a someone who runs a business is that, one, it's not scalable.

05:31.38

Valerie

Two, it's very time consuming and it is ah creatively exhausting. So as a novelist myself, I'm holding all of my clients' stories in my head in addition to my own story.

05:37.84

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

05:46.16

Valerie

So yeah, it's a lot.

05:46.16

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow, so you're literally juggling like, cause I have a friend who is is a writer, he writes for stage and screen. But one of the trickiest things for writers is juggling all the individual characters and their nuances.

05:59.66

Kennedy Kennedy

And would they say that? Would they do that? Their own character narratives for each one. But then of course, how the overall narrative of a piece of fiction or any story um comes together.

06:11.01

Kennedy Kennedy

Cause I know you you also do um nonfiction more like, um memoirs as well, don't you? So so pulling pulling that stuff together um and then having to do that for your own characters in your own series and universes you've created and then doing that with multiple clients.

06:16.62

Valerie

Yes.

06:29.01

Kennedy Kennedy

How on earth do you, I can't multitask, like I'm very typically a bloke that way in that I can't do two things at once. how Do you have a technique for being able to compartmentalize that stuff?

06:42.01

Valerie

Well, I take a lot of notes when I'm talking and and I read everyone's manuscript before I start working with them.

06:43.55

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm. Yeah.

06:48.23

Kennedy Kennedy

Okay.

06:48.46

Valerie

So I have a lot of notes before we even have our first call. um Yeah, it's a real left brain, right brain strategy. And one of my techniques is that um i I do the consulting work here, down in my office.

07:02.39

Valerie

I do my writing work in a different part of the house.

07:02.32

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

07:05.05

Valerie

So that's one of my techniques.

07:05.59

Kennedy Kennedy

Interesting.

07:06.53

Valerie

So it's a physically different environment.

07:08.97

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

07:09.35

Valerie

So I can sort of switch, um switch thought processes.

07:12.17

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

07:14.80

Valerie

So I mean, it's a lot of practice and it's developing your ability to focus and developing your discipline.

07:14.78

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

07:21.07

Valerie

I mean, I wish I had a magic bullet I could give someone, but I don't.

07:21.03

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, it really, wow. Yeah. No, the closest to that I've ever experienced and it's nowhere on your level, but it's when I used to do a lot of writing for clients and I would have different clients with very different tones. I had a very sort of alpha male fitness guy who I used to write for.

07:44.30

Kennedy Kennedy

And then i had um like um I had a woman who did something completely different, who was much more feminine and much more yeah know much more girly, for want of about a better word. I think of it more like sweet was the tone. And the way I would do it is I would like listen to a certain style of music just before doing that. So I would listen to gangster rap, which I'm really not into, just before writing the alpha male stuff.

08:10.31

Kennedy Kennedy

And then I would listen to like something much more like, um you know, musicals and that kind of thing before writing the sort of more, more sweet stuff and sort of romantic music.

08:10.45

Valerie

Yeah.

08:19.64

Kennedy Kennedy

And that was a really good anchor for me to get into the tone ah in the zone of that. um Yeah, but it's interesting. So when you when we first started working together, I remember you were in an ah in ah unusual situation for us anyway, not for many, but for Most of our clients, as you know, come to us when they've been trying to sell their thing for a while and they're like, I've got this email list, but man alive, I should be making more bloody money from it. You weren't in that situation. You were in a kind of different spot. Share what that was like.

08:52.12

Valerie

I came to you before I had anything to sell. And i from as ah as being a novelist, I have learned the hard way that before you build something, you should figure out what it is you want to build.

08:55.83

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

09:05.38

Valerie

Because I have, as a novelist, had to throw out manuscripts because it got easier just to throw it out and start from scratch than to try and retrofit whatever manuscript I had written.

09:13.38

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow.

09:16.78

Kennedy Kennedy

That must be really painful doing that.

09:18.57

Valerie

It's very painful because it's it's years of work. So it's about three years of work that I haven't been paid for that has gone in the garbage because I had to learn lessons.

09:21.30

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

09:26.66

Kennedy Kennedy

Oh shit.

09:27.53

Valerie

ah Yeah. So I said, there's somebody out there who has already figured this out. I'm going to see if I can find that person. So when i when I came to you, I had already already decided that in my business, me and my podcast co-host Melanie Hill, that we were going to offer some ah live courses, just very targeted on subject matter, one hour um webinar style Zoom calls with a 30 minute Q and&A.

09:56.04

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm hmm.

09:58.07

Valerie

And we would record those and and have those then as inventory that we could eventually put up as on-demand courses. So we had already decided that. And we came up with the courses we would teach and all that good stuff. And then I said, well, Melanie, now we have to figure out how to sell it because people have to come to these things. So what do how do we do this? So i had done you know I wasn't brand new to marketing when I came to you.

10:27.10

Valerie

But I needed someone who had done this before, someone who, like I had been told for years, you get you need an email list, you need an email list. So I was spending a lot of money building this email list, which was quite robust.

10:40.58

Valerie

But I thought, how do I get those people to pay attention to to what I'm doing over here?

10:44.86

Kennedy Kennedy

ah you

10:45.77

Valerie

Because what I'm doing can really help them. How do I explain that? How do I communicate? That's what I was looking for. How do I communicate that what I have is going to help them with the problem that they have right now?

11:00.38

Valerie

That that they are telling me they have this problem. How do I get across to them, this idea?

11:03.34

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

11:05.54

Valerie

So when I came to you, I already had um I think it was six months of these one hour, 90 minute, really sessions scheduled.

11:13.86

Kennedy Kennedy

So that was was six in total.

11:16.44

Valerie

Six in total, exactly.

11:18.01

Kennedy Kennedy

Six times one a month, yeah.

11:18.32

Valerie

um Yes, because we were creating it and then teaching it. so so ah We would spend a month creating the program, teaching it, and then month two, we'd create the second program and teach it.

11:29.86

Kennedy Kennedy

And all of this is in a drive for you and your podcast co-host to create a more um scalable income, ah an income that didn't rely on you being in a particular place at a particular time. Because you know when family stuff comes up, I know you and I in the last couple of years have both had family stuff happen. I lost my dad and you've had you know you've had stuff going on too.

11:52.72

Kennedy Kennedy

um you know, when you have one shit hits the fan, and you have to just go be somewhere by someone's bedside by, you know, wherever it's going to be, just holding someone's hand. And you can't be the person holding all those thoughts of someone's novel and all these bloody characters and you're like, actually, I need to be over here by a relative, you know, with a relative. Yeah, that's what this is for.

12:13.00

Valerie

Exactly, exactly. and And when I did have to step away from my business to help a family member, um yeah I was really torn because of course I wanted to help her, but I didn't i wanted to help my clients too.

12:24.07

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, of course.

12:24.44

Valerie

I didn't want to abandon anybody, but you can only be in so many places at once.

12:26.06

Kennedy Kennedy

No.

12:28.31

Valerie

So I thought I need a different model. And that's where we came up with the idea of let's start moving toward having some on-demand training that writers can access.

12:38.72

Valerie

I still do one-on-one editing.

12:40.61

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

12:41.55

Valerie

But now when I get my one-on-one clients, they're, I'm going to say better clients, not because they're better people, but because they have a higher level of knowledge before they start working with me because they've done this other stuff.

12:54.36

Kennedy Kennedy

Oh, this is really interesting.

12:56.83

Valerie

So they're getting more value.

12:56.75

Kennedy Kennedy

So you're using.

12:58.82

Valerie

They're getting more value for their money when they do the one-on-one.

13:01.99

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes. And you're also, so not only getting better value for money when they get the one on one, but you're also able to almost filter out the people who actually didn't really need an editor yet.

13:14.42

Valerie

Right, right. There's a lot of a lot of um foundational mistakes that writers make, and we all make them because not many of us know a professional novelist that we can call up and say, hey, how would you do your job?

13:22.16

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

13:29.93

Valerie

What is your job all about? How do you do? We don't, right? We don't know Stephen King. We don't know J.K. Rowling. So we are we're all just trying to figure it out as we go along.

13:41.53

Valerie

As a result, we all make these newbie mistakes. so So this is what we're trying to do with our training is at a very cost effective way, give these people an opportunity to say, okay, so here are the 101 mistakes that you can avoid.

13:57.86

Valerie

and therefore make your first draft what your 10th draft used to be. because Because that's what I discovered when I learned how about story theory, because that's what I teach story theory. um So like if you wanted to be a painter, you would you would learn about perspective, you would learn about color wheel and what painting with a knife is versus painting with a brush. That's all theory. So So that's the kind of thing I teach about storytelling because there is a theory to storytelling so that they go through that training themselves first.

14:30.88

Valerie

They learn the theory. We have a podcast where every week we analyze a film where we're explaining an aspect of the theory.

14:35.00

Kennedy Kennedy

Oh.

14:37.96

Valerie

So not only do they get what the theory is, they get to see it in practice so that what we do, a Melanie Hill, my podcast co-host and I, what we both do one-on-one

14:42.92

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm.

14:49.15

Valerie

is actually the third piece of that, which is helping them use this in their own work.

14:55.05

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

14:55.74

Valerie

Right? Because we start every podcast episode by saying, if you want to write a better story, there are three things you need to do. Know the theory, see how other writers have applied the theory, and then use it in your own work.

15:05.48

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, it's perfect. I love that.

15:06.75

Valerie

Yeah.

15:07.36

Kennedy Kennedy

It's like the ascension of the knowledge is it learn it, see how it's being used, apply it.

15:12.32

Valerie

Exactly.

15:12.39

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah. I love it.

15:13.40

Valerie

Exactly.

15:13.61

Kennedy Kennedy

I love it. So there you are. You've, you've, you've, you've joined, you've realized the, so this is the big, the before picture of before we worked together, you're editing books, with novelists, you're writing your own work and family shit goes down, you need to be somewhere and you're like, I need to be earning money and able to so continue supporting people while I'm not able to be there physically and also mentally not being able to be there. You then decide, okay, well, to figure this out, to figure out what to sell, how to sell it, you need to join a program. You come across our program and so still at that point of joining us, you had no product.

15:57.29

Valerie

No, no.

15:59.19

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, do you know, and what's interesting, what's crazy about this is that's kind of ideal world. That's where most people would be. But unfortunately, most people aren't.

16:11.02

Kennedy Kennedy

They usually come to us when they've got a proper, you were kind of in prevention mode. Most people are in, you know, fix it. It's broken mode. Okay. You joined.

16:20.78

Valerie

Yeah, and I know my subject matter and I had a can-do attitude and after that,

16:24.53

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah

16:26.23

Valerie

but That's it.

16:26.55

Kennedy Kennedy

that was yeah i was That's the most Newfoundland thing you can have.

16:26.99

Valerie

That's what I had.

16:30.34

Kennedy Kennedy

can do attitude. um

16:32.91

Valerie

of me

16:33.20

Kennedy Kennedy

okay so what when do you Now that you've joined, we're going to get into what you actually did as well.

16:41.15

Valerie

okay

16:41.18

Kennedy Kennedy

But let's talk let let's let's miss out that middle piece of what you actually did for a second. Hold that hold our listeners' attention hostage for a moment. and And let's talk about the after picture.

16:53.47

Kennedy Kennedy

So to this point, what have you been able to achieve through just implementing what you've learned?

17:00.50

Valerie

Well, ah so I i joined 10 months ago with you guys, so it's not even been a year yet.

17:05.39

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

17:06.12

Valerie

um What I was able to do immediately was I got two new clients with with an email, two new one-on-one clients in one email.

17:13.50

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow.

17:17.13

Kennedy Kennedy

Amazing.

17:19.15

Valerie

I could not believe it.

17:20.30

Kennedy Kennedy

What sort of, ah do you do you mind sharing what sort of income is that worth to you?

17:20.61

Valerie

and

17:25.04

Valerie

Oh, that that could do me for the year, just with two clients, two one-on-one, because I can't do a lot of one-on-one clients because it's they sign on for six months.

17:27.68

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow.

17:31.35

Kennedy Kennedy

No.

17:35.53

Valerie

So if I have too many, then nobody gets the quality service that I want to give them.

17:38.85

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes. So you basically fully booked yourself for the year.

17:44.16

Valerie

Yeah, three is fully booked, and I had one um when I started with you, and then I got i booked for the year.

17:47.07

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

17:50.49

Kennedy Kennedy

Amazing.

17:51.34

Valerie

Yeah, which was great fun, but which also meant that because I wasn't searching for new clients, ah that freed up a lot of time and energy and headspace for me to do other things.

17:52.08

Kennedy Kennedy

Well done.

18:04.49

Kennedy Kennedy

because you weren't coming from a place of desperately clawing to pay the bills. you are now you would like sorted out your If you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and like if you sorted out your foundational fundamental needs, and now you can build what is going to start off as a side hustle,

18:08.59

Valerie

Yeah.

18:21.05

Valerie

Mm hmm.

18:21.66

Kennedy Kennedy

and allow that to grow rather than going, oh my gosh, I need to do something quick to make some money. And that's a bit of advice I haven't given for a long time, but I think it's really important that somebody says, I'm thinking about giving this up and switching it to that. I'm like, don't just cold stop the thing that's working. Keep doing that.

18:39.00

Kennedy Kennedy

Do a bit more of that even to pay the bills, give yourself some stability so you're not coming from a place of need and desperation. Because making sales from a place of need and desperation is is really, really tough. So um yeah.

18:53.15

Valerie

Well, it's not going to work because there's, there's two things that I have learned because in terms of sales and marketing, I was super resistant because in the writing world, I mean, everyone seems to have a book and there are so many writers that you, if you talk to them at all, it becomes a sales pitch of buy my book, buy my book, buy my book. And it just kind of makes me recoil and think, Oh, I don't want to talk to that person again. Cause I know they're going to try and shove their book at me and I don't want their book.

19:20.72

Valerie

So there's a couple of sort of mindset shifts that I had that that really revolutionized my business. The first one is selling is not doing something to someone. So it's not shoving your book in someone's face and saying, buy my book. It's helping someone. It's doing something for someone. You're a writer, you've got a problem. I think I might be able to help you.

19:47.21

Valerie

or I know I can help you.

19:48.56

Kennedy Kennedy

and

19:49.38

Valerie

So so that's the first one. The second idea I learned from you, which is when someone joins my email list, they're joining because they have a problem and they think I might be able to help them.

20:02.88

Kennedy Kennedy

Exactly.

20:03.44

Valerie

They're hoping I have the solution. Now I've got two choices. I can offer them the solution and they can decide whether to take it or not, or I can not offer them anything which forces them to look elsewhere because what they've learned is that I can't help them.

20:17.80

Valerie

that They came to the wrong place.

20:19.44

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

20:20.02

Valerie

so that So that's a huge mental shift in how I'm running my business and what I'm doing. I'm building a community. um you know if you If you study Seth Godin and anyone who's running a company so but should be studying Seth Godin, in my opinion.

20:34.34

Valerie

So if you look at his book, Tribes, that's what we're doing. We're each building our own little tribe of people who have a shared interest.

20:40.93

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm.

20:44.78

Valerie

So in my case, My community are writers who have an interest in writing an excellent story. And that's not everybody. that's a That's a small percentage of the millions and millions and millions of people who say they want to write a book.

21:00.13

Valerie

At the moment, as we record this podcast episode, there's an awful lot of writers who have discovered that the reality of the job is not what they thought it was, that it actually requires sweat equity, and they're turning to AI to write their novel for them. Well, God bless them. I wish them well, but it's a fool's errand. So the people who realize that and say, you know what? There's actually a way to write a story. And there is. And there are people who know how to do this. I'm one of them.

21:28.44

Valerie

Maybe I should just learn how to write the story. And that is the key to me having a successful career as a storyteller, because a novelist is a storyteller, a screenwriter is a storyteller, a playwright is a storyteller.

21:33.62

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm. Hmm.

21:40.70

Valerie

And by the way, a marketer is also a storyteller.

21:43.57

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

21:43.99

Valerie

Same storytelling principles that I do in my substantive work. I'm just applying over here in the marketing area.

21:48.63

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

21:53.78

Valerie

So it's it's kind of cool.

21:53.97

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, it's so it is great to be able to transplant those those things.

21:54.82

Valerie

but

21:57.61

Kennedy Kennedy

But but within within not very long ah of of joining the programme, you enrolled two new clients to your one-to-one work. So that's you fully booked, that's you, the pressure is off.

22:08.65

Kennedy Kennedy

I've now got creative space to implement how on earth do I sell these digital masterclasses, shall we call them, these these these workshops. What other results have you seen between then and now then? How are the sales of that going? How is it going?

22:25.29

Valerie

Well, the workshops that I did, um I sold um a little over 500. I don't remember the exact number, but a little over 500 registrations for that.

22:31.34

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow!

22:34.29

Valerie

So I thought, hey, this is working.

22:37.60

Kennedy Kennedy

It worked!

22:38.36

Valerie

Alleluia.

22:38.62

Kennedy Kennedy

Oh my god! Look at that!

22:40.16

Valerie

Woo-hoo. But what's even more exciting to me is the feedback that I was getting from the people who came like the you know my beta students and I said here's an introductory rate because we're trying this experiment and and come and and learn with us and please give us your feedback it was such good feedback I mean I just got an email the other day from a writer who said you make me feel like this is possible you make me believe that I can do it that

23:08.87

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow. Isn't that what we all want? Yeah.

23:13.51

Valerie

That's it. so And I wouldn't have been able to reach that person if I didn't if i hadn't sent the email.

23:20.20

Kennedy Kennedy

Right, right.

23:21.00

Valerie

you know it's it's It's that simple. If I hadn't taken action and tried to reach out to a writer who I knew was struggling and who I knew I could help, but she would still be there pulling her hair out.

23:34.11

Kennedy Kennedy

Unbelievable. it's it's out It really is amazing. It is amazing. So you've been able to sell a bunch of these. Have you done all six of these courses? Yeah. Are you still partway through that?

23:42.95

Valerie

24:09.06

Kennedy Kennedy

Amazing. Fantastic. I love this. Okay. So you've had some great success. You've, you've, you've earned some great income. You've, you've really done well from your emails. I mean, well done for putting it out there, persisting with it, tweaking the bits when, you know, there's, it's not going to be perfect. Like you'll have sent some duds and that they didn't work, but you, you know, you look, but the results have been amazing by persisting. And that's something you get as an author, like as a person who's a novelist.

24:35.15

Kennedy Kennedy

The first draft is the first draft. That's why it's called the first draft.

24:37.18

Valerie

Yes.

24:38.59

Kennedy Kennedy

It's not called the finished product. It's called the first draft for a reason. So well done for doing that. ah So I'll hit the question on everyone's mind is, okay, how did you do it?

24:49.06

Kennedy Kennedy

How did you fill up your coaching, your one-to-one service? How did you sell 500? of a brand new program when you've never sold a digital program before, what is it you actually did? So let's get into some tactical things of things that you think really made the big difference. What are the, I mean, there's been lots of little things you did, but for the things that, if there were one, two or three things that made a big difference, what would be the first thing?

25:16.53

Valerie

Well, before I even get into that, you mentioned first draft and something I tell my clients and I tell all writers and it applies to anyone in any business who has to write an email. The first draft has only one job and that is to exist.

25:30.59

Valerie

That's all it has to do. It doesn't have to be good. The first draft just has to exist because then you can go back and fix it.

25:37.35

Kennedy Kennedy

But until that doesn't exist, right?

25:37.62

Valerie

So right. So ge your first draft just has to exist.

25:42.01

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

25:42.96

Valerie

So that that takes all the pressure away from the first draft or thinking that you only get one draft because multiple drafts are your friend and it's the way out.

25:45.08

Kennedy Kennedy

Love it.

25:52.20

Valerie

It it absolutely ah removes the stress and anxiety. So that would be anyone, whatever company you're running, if if the thought of writing an email to you is just anxiety inducing, just I get it.

26:06.66

Valerie

I totally get it.

26:07.77

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah,

26:08.20

Valerie

Just um the first draft just has to exist. that That's it. That's all it has to do. um so So, what was your question you asked me? What?

26:17.18

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah it's it was... um

26:19.33

Kennedy Kennedy

it was one of the specific actions that you've actually taken. Like if we were to boil down the things that got you these great results that you're celebrating, and that you're so pleased with and you should be so proud of yourself, you did a great job. If if we were to boil down to between one, two or three actions, what other activities you you did that that led you to where you are?

26:41.57

Valerie

Well, the very first thing was that I worked on my mindset. So ah initially it was totally overwhelming because this, this is a brand new skill for me. And I, I went into your material and I thought, Oh my God.

26:49.90

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

26:53.44

Valerie

Oh my God. Oh my God. This is a lot. Okay. So then I said to myself, what can I do today of all of this that needs to be done? What can I do today?

27:04.33

Valerie

So one of the things that you have are campaigns. Uh, honestly, that's the only part that I could do that. That was a ah piece that was big enough for me to wrap my head around and implement.

27:18.82

Valerie

So all of the other stuff about the score engine and creating a Rome offer. I haven't even done that yet. And I'm 10 months in.

27:25.74

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

27:26.79

Valerie

I took the campaign. templates that you have. I looked at the philosophy behind them and the strategy because you give all that to us. What, why does a flash sale set up this way? Oh, okay. Um, and then I tailored it to my own business. And before that, I don't think I had emailed my list for maybe a year and a half.

27:51.42

Valerie

Because I was so confused as to what I was supposed to be emailing them about.

27:58.40

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah I think a lot of people are. A lot of smart, you know, people who've you've you've been told, build an email list, you've got to have an email list. You've totally bought into that and seen why that's important. You get that. But then it is that big problem of, that's great. I've got them. Now what?

28:17.60

Valerie

Yeah, so I was paying to get them on the list. I was paying to house them on my list.

28:22.96

Valerie

um And I had what what we call freegans. I had a lot of freegans on my list, which are people who ah came to you know get the free book download or the the whatever, and then they left, which is fine.

28:40.69

Valerie

Which is fine. They signed up to get something. I gave them the thing they signed up to get. Transaction is over. They're on to the next thing.

28:47.97

Kennedy Kennedy

Sure.

28:48.17

Valerie

And I wasn't offering them anything else. So why would they stay, right? They totally get it. So another thing that I did as I was, and I didn't do it before anything, I i was doing all of these things in real time.

29:01.53

Valerie

So I was taking what I call imperfect action. So, yeah or Seth Godin calls it, you know, just ship it. So I knew my email list was not organized well at all. And I thought, just don't stop and organize it first. Just, just go, keep, keep going. So one of the, ah the steps I took was to clean up my email list and it meant removing thousands and thousands of people who well first I got rid of the unsubscribes because I had been told to keep the unsubscribes there and for a reason I couldn't understand and I still don't understand it so I got rid of them because I thought I'm paying to keep them there that makes no sense they've unsubscribed for a reason right so I and and

29:48.92

Valerie

It wasn't like i they unsubscribed 90 days ago and I could try to get them back. It had been years. So I deleted all of those people. And then over the course of those six months, the people who hadn't opened anything um or anyone who had additionally unsubscribed because now they were suddenly hearing from me, I cleaned all of that up.

30:09.93

Valerie

so So my mailing list is actually much shorter, much smaller.

30:09.90

Kennedy Kennedy

Nice.

30:14.39

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

30:15.08

Valerie

but the quality is better. It's the people who genuinely are in the tribe.

30:19.93

Kennedy Kennedy

They're opening your emails, they're clicking, they are potential, you know, they're prospects for your offer.

30:25.79

Valerie

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So my open rate was always pretty good. I had, you know, it was around 50%. Now it's around 70%.

30:33.78

Kennedy Kennedy

Holy moly.

30:35.38

Valerie

So

30:36.23

Kennedy Kennedy

And it's not a tiny list, is it? How many subscribers is that for?

30:39.41

Valerie

30:41.12

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

30:45.82

Kennedy Kennedy

But you but you but you're getting 70% open rates on 3,000 people.

30:49.100

Valerie

Yeah, so so that's good. That means that these are the people who want to hear what I have to say.

30:52.26

Kennedy Kennedy

That's great.

30:56.18

Valerie

um So those are two things, just my attitude shift of what can I do right now.

31:00.56

Kennedy Kennedy

And one of the first things you did then was clean up your email list.

31:03.64

Valerie

Yeah, yeah. So the first thing I did was just pick a campaign that I thought I could do, a short one.

31:10.17

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, that's the way it should be. use something Don't try it and run a you know double marathon before you can run to the end of the street. I mean, that's crazy.

31:18.52

Valerie

Exactly. That was exactly my mindset, my attitude, my approach to it. And then I cleaned up my list and then I just start going through the modules in the program one at a time and making notes.

31:32.62

Valerie

So I would watch the video first just to sort of get my head around generally what it is we're talking about here. Then I'd go back again and I'd watch it again and take notes, take my screenshots, you know, all that kind of stuff and actually create a ah notes document that I would then have next to me as I was implementing whatever the next thing was.

31:43.70

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm hmm.

31:53.62

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm hmm.

31:54.12

Valerie

you know, um, putting an offer together. Well, I'd never done that before. I, I didn't know if that was fit to eat. I just did not know what to do with that. So I did your, your course on that and I just went step by step.

32:02.44

Kennedy Kennedy

Right. Mm hmm.

32:06.57

Valerie

Okay. And even, even in that, when I did my first draft of say a sales page, it took, ah it took a long time, but even the second draft,

32:16.82

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

32:19.70

Valerie

of of that same sales page if I was now going to write an email to talk about whatever this offer was. Even just writing the email, it was faster, but it was also better because I was i was editing as I was going. I was like, okay, I can say this more effectively here. So each version got a little better. Yeah.

32:41.05

Kennedy Kennedy

I love it. So the actions you've taken are you cleaned up your email list and that meant got rid of people who were like not engaging at all, improves deliverability and your, your response to the people you do have there. Then you took an email campaign. Do you remember which one it was?

32:59.20

Valerie

Oh, i what was the first email campaign I did? Maybe a flash sale?

33:03.96

Kennedy Kennedy

I think it might've been a flash sale or something like that.

33:04.25

Valerie

I don't even remember. Yeah. And I know I do the bed all the time.

33:07.09

Kennedy Kennedy

I think. Hmm.

33:09.33

Valerie

Even when I'm not about to promote something. i It just makes logical sense to me.

33:14.43

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, yeah, the bed campaign. Yeah. So you you ran an email sequence, a campaign, got some sales, got some results, gave you a list of the opportunity to actually engage and show you who is alive, which is great. And then it was really a case of getting a study in the program. And was there any other thing you implemented that you feel really helped you to to make the last 12 months so successful for you?

33:37.56

Valerie

really looking at what I'm saying in the emails and taking what you have guided us to do. Like you've got email prompts and how we can come up with. So, so I'm looking at my life as I go through life thinking, Oh, I could mention this in an email.

33:53.93

Valerie

This makes sense because I can see how this relates to, you know, like something at the gym, for example, i when when I was at the gym,

33:55.16

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah

34:01.32

Valerie

An argument had broken out in another part of the gym and even though I'm supposed to be focused on what I'm doing My attention kept going over to the argument because it's conflict Conflict is interesting. We can't help can't help it

34:13.98

Valerie

when we're writing a novel or any type of story, you got to have conflict because it's interesting. So I took that Jim experience and I used it to sort of reinforce the idea that remember when you're writing to every scene's got to have some conflict in it. So I wasn't doing that before because it never occurred to me to do that before.

34:36.91

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, and it gives people that lovely insight into your life. Oh, this is a person who goes to the gym, and they're just like me because they also can't help but look when someone's having a bit of a fight over there.

34:45.96

Valerie

You can't help it.

34:46.10

Kennedy Kennedy

Like, we can't. None of us can help it. it's You know, rubbernecking is is a thing, right?

34:50.41

Valerie

Yeah, yeah.

34:50.58

Kennedy Kennedy

So, yeah, I love it. I love it. So if you were to say to somebody right now who's thinking, I really want to get better results from my email marketing, I really want to sell more of my program, get more coaching clients, get more one-to-one clients, sell more course, enroll more people in my membership, whatever outcome they're looking for. Based on everything you have learned so far from us, what would you say a good action for that someone like that to take would be that you think, based on what you've done,

35:20.84

Kennedy Kennedy

This would be what I would say, go and do, and this will have a really, you know, give you a good chance.

35:25.16

Valerie

Take consistent action. Ask yourself, what can I do today?

35:27.41

Kennedy Kennedy

Interesting.

35:31.00

Valerie

If that is send an email to your list and I still don't email my list every day. um I'm not even yet consistent with emailing every week.

35:40.70

Kennedy Kennedy

Okay.

35:41.41

Valerie

35:53.14

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

35:53.35

Valerie

So ask yourself, what can you do today to to get you a little bit closer to your business goal?

36:00.08

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

36:00.56

Valerie

If that is emailing your list, what what story can you tell them? Because it's everything is storytelling. And Seth Godin talks about this too, right?

36:11.42

Valerie

All marketers tell stories. And and then it doesn't have to be a story that is um that ends in you know buy my book, buy my book. but It's a story that develops a relationship with your audience.

36:25.22

Valerie

And I mean, you've you've got a whole training on this. I forget what it's called, 365 email prompts or whatever.

36:33.23

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

36:34.71

Valerie

Batch It which is a great title, a great title, which makes me laugh.

36:36.79

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah

36:40.89

Valerie

but it also takes the sting out of having to write a whole bunch of emails, especially if writing is not your thing.

36:45.95

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah. Yeah.

36:48.55

Valerie

Like I'm a writer.

36:48.50

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

36:49.31

Valerie

I'm writing all day, every day. And even I sometimes think, Oh God, I got another write it, write another email, which is why I'm not consistent in doing it every week.

36:55.00

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

36:58.76

Valerie

So, so that's what I would say. What can you do today to get you further? And if that is sending an email or learning how to to design a campaign, whatever it is, ah do that and not get overwhelmed by all the stuff that needs to be done.

37:18.88

Kennedy Kennedy

I love it. I love it. I love it. That's amazing. Thank you. Well, I mean, just I want to say thanks. First of all, coming on and sharing your journey, your story of of what you've been up to.

37:24.48

Valerie

yeah

37:28.92

Kennedy Kennedy

And you've just had such a transformation from what do I send? What do I even sell? And I'm going to send people to all the way through to getting this level of clarity. And I know we were talking before about sometimes if you can find someone who's kind of doing kind of what you want to do,

37:46.08

Kennedy Kennedy

Because you you said to me a number of times that you don't just learn from what we teach you, but you look at how we do things in the business because it's a similar sort of business to what what you want to have, which is selling programs, selling courses, and to be able to model some of that stuff.

38:00.98

Kennedy Kennedy

So there's some sort of meta parallel learning going on with these things as well.

38:05.19

Valerie

Oh, Kennedy, I am studying your emails.

38:08.27

Kennedy Kennedy

ah Well, you know, yeah, at least I do, at least I practice what I preach. I'm not worried about that.

38:15.10

Valerie

You do, you do. because it's you know and And this is what we talk about in the in any field, in any field where you want to learn a new skill. Go to someone who has demonstrated that they have an expertise in that area.

38:31.82

Valerie

It's going to save you time. It's going to save you money. It's going to save you frustration, a lot of frustration.

38:37.22

Kennedy Kennedy

A lot. Yeah.

38:39.66

Valerie

And I mean, in in my space, I have some clients who have been working on their novels for 10 years.

38:44.08

Kennedy Kennedy

Bloody hell.

38:45.76

Valerie

I'm not even joking.

38:46.33

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

38:47.40

Valerie

10 years before they have come to me to say, what am I doing here? So if you're running a business, you can't afford to wait 10 years.

38:53.96

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

38:59.30

Valerie

to get help. so So if you just go to someone who knows what they're doing and you do what they tell you to do, you'll get the results that they tell you you're going to get.

39:00.94

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

39:11.13

Valerie

It's it's not rocket science, but for some reason we have blocks in certain areas and we resist getting the help that we need.

39:11.06

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah. Of course. Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. Awesome stuff. Valerie, if someone wants to find out more about you, you've got your podcast. What's your podcast called so we can all go and search for that.

39:30.44

Valerie

It's called Story Nerd.

39:32.17

Kennedy Kennedy

Story nerd, I love it. And if they want to find out more about your world, they want to get better at their storytelling, where can we go and find out more about that?

39:41.92

Valerie

ah It's easy, simply go to valeriefrances.ca.

39:46.50

Kennedy Kennedy

ValerieFrancis.ca will make sure that the link to that is in the notes for this podcast episode as well. Thanks so much for being here. fat Valerie, I really, really, really appreciate you.

39:56.76

Valerie

You're very welcome, Kennedy, thank you.

39:59.04

Kennedy Kennedy

Hey, my pleasure. ah Folks, we're gonna be back next week with another fantastic episode. If you haven't already, please do hit subscribe on your podcast player. Again, go check out all the stuff that Valerie's been talking about in this and take those actions, take the small actions, the things you can do today. That's the thing, like you can do all of the learning. Why are we all so fucking addicted to learning when we should be addicted to implementing? And that seems to be a theme of the people I've been interviewing over the last few weeks and months who have implemented stuff and had great results. They haven't studied lots. They've studied something and implemented and move forward. it So we're all about the doing here. That's what we're all about the doing. That's it for this week. I'll see you next week. Have a good one.