Life will quickly pull you this way and that without even asking for permission. So how do you achieve a balanced life for yourself and support the same for those around you? In this episode of T Time, we're talking ALL THINGS BALANCE to free you up to achieve more in your home, work, ministry, marriage and personal life. 

00:27 Twanna welcomes listeners and introduces this episode's guest, Charleen Anderson.

01:51 Balancing all of the demands of life is complicated. Twanna asks Charleen to impart her wisdom as a pastor's wife, mother, working woman, etc., on balancing life with so much going on. 

03:02 Charlene references Proverbs 10:27, saying, "Reverence for God adds hours to each day." 

05:05 Twanna comments that we sometimes focus so much on the wrong things that we miss how God provides for us in the middle of our business.

06:48 Charleen sheds light on a common theme in many pastors' wives: the feeling of inadequacy, but through time she has learned the importance of being herself in that role. When she was herself, she saw how God would give her the ability to do things she couldn't have done on her own. 

11:14 Charleen has noticed a trend in most ministry marriages. They happen right after college; they get married and immediately begin their work in ministry, and have babies. The couples do not give enough time to get to know one another. 

13:07 "Having a strong marriage gives confidence to the church" - Charleen Anderson

14:40 Twanna asks Charleen how she could get to know some people from the congregation on a more authentic level? 

19:43 It was important for Charleen to impress on her children the benefits of being a pastor's kid. 

21:27 Charleen points out the importance of building a solid, teamwork mentality with your spouse from the start. 

22:49 Twanna asks Charleen to advise how other pastors' wives can successfully support their husbands? 

32:32 Charlene shares one of her favorite portions of scripture from 1 Samuel 30. 

35:32 Charlene closes in prayer. 

For video versions of episode 48 and onward visit us on Youtube.

Twanna Henderson: Welcome to T Time: Spiritual Conversations For, With and About Women. I'm your host, Twanna Henderson, and I want to remind you to take a moment and like this podcast and share it with your friends and other women in your life. Well, our guest today is a very special person and a new friend. Our guest for today is Charleen Anderson. Charleen has a life story of Christian faith lived out across America and across the globe. She was born in the New Jersey suburbs of New York City to Christian parents, and her childhood pastor would eventually become her father-in-law. She started dating his son when he turned 15 years old, and she and her husband, Leith, attended Moody Bible Institute together in Chicago and married after they graduated. Charleen has been a pastor's wife in large metropolitan areas and congregations of 100 plus. She has ministered to wives of professional athletes, pastors' wives, and wives of Christian leaders. She has also edited numerous articles and more than 20 books authored by her husband Leith; their lifelong partnership has become a model of ministry for many. She is the mother to four adult children, and they reside in Minnesota. Charleen, welcome to T Time.

Charleen Anderson: Thank you so much, Twanna; it's good to be here.

Twanna Henderson: It's so good to have you. Well, I know that you and your husband have been in ministry for a number of years. And as you know, you know, one of the biggest areas that women in general struggle with is balance. And so I want you to just to kind of share your story and just kind of talk about a life of ministry, and really how we balance all of the things, you know, we balance, we have so many different demands, you have been a pastor's wife, a mother, you know, women are balancing being working women, raising a family, and even at times serving as a host, entertaining people in their home and all these other hats that women wear. So talk to us about life and ministry in that whole thing about balance.

Charleen Anderson: Well, I know that there were some sometimes when having four children and having them be close to an age, we were busy, life was busy, there was so much going on. And I would wake up some mornings, and I would think, how am I ever going to get through this day? Lord, there's just too much on my plate. And I would find, I'd go through the day, and things would be busy, and then I would come to get into bed at night, and I'd think, it worked, It worked, everything got done. How did that happen? And then one day, I read a verse, and I don't, I don't know what translation of the Bible it was in. But it said, "God will add hours to the days of a righteous man." And I thought, you know, I've been doing this wrong, I need to kind of change and look at this from a different perspective. So I started waking up in the morning and saying the same thing, Lord, there's so much in this day that I've got to do; I don't know how I'm gonna get it all done. But I'm so excited to see how you're going to do it for me. And you're going to help me through it. And I would start running errands for example. And I get all green lights instead of red lights. And I go through a green light. And I think, Lord, you did that, thank you. And I'd thank him at that time. And I'd go to the grocery store. And they'd open up a line that I could just go through right away, and there was extra time, or somebody would offer to bring a dessert over because and we were having company that night, and I didn't have time to prepare anything and just all kinds of little things that I'd watch God do throughout the day that would just be exciting. I'd see that he was doing it. And so instead of going to bed at night and thinking, I don't know how you did this, but you did it, thank you, and being grateful that way. I was grateful in the process. And we do that with just things that we're going to decide that we have people ask us to do things and we have to decide how we're going to do things. So we are asking God, looking to him for direction as to what we say yes to and what we say no to. Setting priorities, those are important things, setting boundaries, too. Sometimes people want to use you and want you to do things that they think are important, and that doesn't seem to be what God wants you to do. And you have to be willing to say no to those things as well. So on a small scale, but also on a large scale. Looking to God in the beginning of the day or in the beginning of the process and saying, okay, what do you want me to do? And then looking for his answers on the line and giving him credit for it as he gives it, rather than looking back and saying you must have done something right because my day was okay or my choices were right.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. Now you said a lot that needs to be unpacked there. First, I need that scripture. I need that for my life. I need that scripture. But it is amazing how, you know, a lot of times I find that, you know, we're not even aware of how the Lord is giving us those, those little, you know, spaces of grace, you know, and we sometimes focus so much on the wrong things that we don't even see how he is gracing us at different times. And, you know, and how he's opening, you know, an opportunity for us to be able to, you know, have a sense of balance and a sense of order in our lives, when we would just when we just kind of pause and put the brakes on and, and really are led by Him.

Charleen Anderson: Exactly.

Twanna Henderson: And that makes such a big difference. You know, you've been a pastor's wife, you know, I'm a pastor's wife, and, you know, that's a whole other animal when you talk about balance and, and life and what that looks like, and, and many times, you know, one of the things that I've found is that, you know, pastors wives have no idea at all as to how they even got into, you know, this place where their husbands were called to be a pastor. Is there a type of person who should or shouldn't be a pastor's wife?

Charleen Anderson: Well, you know, I found that in ministry, knowing a lot of different pastors' wives being involved and seeing them involved in their churches, and so forth. Most of us feel inadequate to the task and yet, we need to realize that God has given us certain talents and abilities and spiritual gifts. And when he puts us in a certain ministry, He's gifted us for that. He wants our particular gifts to be used within the church at that particular time. And I think it's important for us to be ourselves. I think it's important that we use our spiritual gifts within the church. Sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zone and do something else because there's a need and if the occasion arises, and that's what he gifts us with and, He gives us the abilities to do those things at the time. And we do them to the best of our ability, and He glorifies that and uses it. And that multiplies it. I think I'm going off task. Put me back on what you want. What you asked about.

Twanna Henderson: So the type of person.

Charleen Anderson: Most of the time, the pastors' wives I've seen have adapted and have done well. There's one situation that I remember specifically where the pastor was doing a wonderful job, but his wife was just not able to deal with it. And he had to leave the ministry. But I don't think that's usually the case. I haven't seen too many situations like that that are necessary. I talked to a friend recently who, in the beginning, didn't want to be a pastor's wife. She really, I said, I know, I talked to her the other day. And I said, you know, I remember that when your husband was getting ready to become a senior pastor, that you weren't real comfortable. She said, I wasn't comfortable; I was really uncomfortable about it. I didn't want that at all. But she watched how her husband was being used by God and she said, it just made all the difference. She said; I kept telling myself to get out of the way. Let God use him and then use me in the process. So I don't know that there's really a type that shouldn't be with a pastor. If you really hate the job and don't want to do it and stuff, then maybe you shouldn't, but I know as far as types, God can use a lot of different types to minister to the needs of the church at that particular time.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. And I think that's so true. Because, you know, I think sometimes we think that we have to fit into some type of mode. Or look like the person down the street or whatever. And, that's not the case; we have to be who God has created us to be.

Charleen Anderson: Exactly. I know, sometimes over the years, there have been times when I've been going along, okay, and feeling comfortable in my position and, and what I'm doing, and then I happen to hear somebody else or hear about somebody else or listen to somebody else speak, and I think, Oh, they're doing so much more than I am or so something different than I'm doing and I really, maybe I should do something else. And so I'll ask. I'll talk to Leith about it, and he'll say, um, if you really want to do that, that's okay. But it's gonna make it harder for me because he knows me, and he knows my abilities, and he knows what I should be doing. And that gives me a sense of like, okay, I don't have to do that. And then I'm back to the uncomfortable. And I think when we have peace, that's the whole secret. If we're uncomfortable on situations that we're put in, maybe that's not from a Lord. But when we sense peace, even in the midst of difficulties, then we know that he's there watching us and walking through us with it.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, peace is a beautiful thing.

Charleen Anderson: It is

Twanna Henderson: And, you know, you and Leith have been in ministry for a long, I mean, how many years? How many years? Have you guys been in ministry?

Charleen Anderson: Well, I mean, officially, as being in the pastorate. We were 10 years in Colorado and then 35 years from the church here in Minnesota. But even as teenagers, Leith had a gospel team, and we would, we kind of ministered together. So we have a few extra years in there that weren't officially ministry as far as like pastor and pastor's wife. But yeah, yeah, it's been fun walking with the Lord.

Twanna Henderson: So what do you think that you know young married couples entering the ministry need to know?

Charleen Anderson: One of the things that I've thought a lot about is that couples meet in college. They come from different backgrounds; they don't know each other real well, they have different historical family backgrounds and things and church backgrounds. I think that couples really need to get to know each other. They're in college; they get married, maybe they go into seminary, they're still in that, not real world. And then they start having children, and all of a sudden, they're just rolling along, and they don't really know each other very well. And I really think that it's important for couples to know each other, to be students of each other, to know each other's gifts, and talents, and strengths and abilities and weaknesses, and just know each other, know each other really well. So you can read each other without having to say words, almost. So I think it's really important to build that. Now, that's not something that's built overnight, but I think that it's something that couples should know that they need to spend that time together and then over the years over the weeks and months and years. And I think they just need to know each other really well. And build that relationship that is going to be an example to others of how Christians should view marriage and handle those kinds of things.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, you know, and that's so important. Because, you know, we live in a culture now where you have, you know, television shows where you marry people that you didn't even meet. I mean, that, you know, Married at First Sight and all these different things. And so everything is so hurry, and fast, and let's just jump in there. And it's almost like we no longer value building a relationship with someone because that's how you're going to build a life.

Charleen Anderson: That's right. I think having a strong marriage a strong relationship with one another is an example for the church. It's it gives confidence to the church. It gives, it helps our families our children. They they have the stability and the security of knowing that mom and dad are units. One of the things our children used to say so often when they were little was, you and Dad always say the same thing. You know, they or they tried to, you know, how children try and decide who they're going to ask for something, you know, ask a question. Because mom's going to say this, and dad's going to say that, but we usually pretty much gave the same information or same answers to them. Because we knew each other, were we were centered together, and so we knew how we wanted to respond to the children and how the other person would want us to respond to the children. And I thought that was good because it really gave the children the confidence that they needed that we were a team.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah. That's so important. You know, you've had the very unique opportunity and special opportunity to minister to pastors' wives, and as I said, professional athletes wives and ministry wives and missionary, you know, a lot in a lot of times, you know, those roles are just so unique in of themselves. And the challenge a lot of times in ministry is really getting to know people on an authentic level. How can you get to know people like in the congregation, you know, as a pastor's wife or a ministry wife? I mean, how, how does how is that done? When you have this role that you're in, but you're really trying to get to know people on an authentic level as well?

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, I think just doing life. I mean, I think just doing life with people makes a huge difference. How did your children fit into that? I mean, how did you know, I know you have four, you know, but then growing up, because a lot of times that's hard for kids to kind of be, you know, somewhat in the spotlight or that you know, feeling like they've got to be perfect or whatever the case may be but how did you navigate through that with your children?

Charleen Anderson: Well, I think with Leith being a PK, preacher's kid, made get made it a little bit easier because he knew what he liked and what he didn't like, and what he was comfortable with. But we never felt like, I think we felt more like our children were part of the congregation rather than having to set, we didn't expect them to set the set examples. We wanted them to behave and, and all those things. But we would want that whether we were in a leadership position or whether we were members of just members of the congregation. It was also they weren't, we didn't, we've never used the children as illustrations unless they got their permission, and he never got their permission. So he missed out on some really good illustrations as a result. But we didn't want to put our children in positions where they had to live up to something or live down, live something down. So that was really important. When they were little, I would, instead of saying, "where is daddy?", "he's at church ."When he would go to work in the morning, I'd say daddy is at work. Because I didn't want them to think that the church was taking him away from them, and when he had to go on a trip and be out of town, I would try and do something a little special. And maybe at mealtime, we'd read a book and have a book that had chapters so that, you know, they were excited about the next night just so that it made it made home normal. Mommy wasn't upset because Daddy was gone or anything like that. And they and then they were excited when he came home, obviously. So those were those were important things that we tried to do with them. We also, I also tried to impress on them the benefits of being a pastor's kids. So there were often trips we'd go to denominational meetings for a week or so on the summer sometimes, and they'd meet other kids, and they'd be having fun in the pool at the motel with the kids, and they'd be doing things, and I'd say you, know how we get to do this don't do? Because dad's the pastor. Just to point out the positive things rather than possibly negative things. And I think our children felt pretty comfortable. All four of them are grown. And all four of them love the Lord. And I can ask for nothing more than that. And it hasn't always been easy. They weren't always perfect. But the Lord really worked in their lives and their hearts. And none of them ever, I don't think, had ever really felt like that the church was demanding things from them they didn't want to produce.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, that's great. I mean, I think and having balanced with that is so important, I think, and again, as you said, him being a PK, a pastor's kid, he had a perspective that, you know, someone else may not have had, and, you know, just kind of talking about the pastor, and just that whole pastor life thing. You know, pastors, of course, have all sorts of, you know, sensitive information that comes to them. You know, when a pastor has confidential information about something or, or somebody that he can't share with his wife, how, how should she handle that without getting jealous or pushy, or demanding, or anything like that?

Charleen Anderson: I think when we've worked together on our relationship from the start, building up a relationship that's close, and that is teamwork and all, then that helps a little bit as starter. But, you know, sometimes we're tired, we're frustrated, and all and we begin, we can't get jealous. And what we need to do is pray. If we feel we need to pray for ourselves, first of all, that God will give us an understanding heart and stay close to the Lord in that. We need to pray for our husbands that we know; we know that they're dealing with something that is weighing on them. And that's taking their attention, and we need to pray for wisdom. We don't know what the situation is. But we need to pray for that situation, too, that God will intervene. We don't need to know what it's about; God knows. And that's always comforting to me. And I think that's important. We just need to, and we need to pray for ourselves that we can handle it that will the Lord will help us to be understanding and patient with our husbands while they're dealing with a situation that just can't be can't be shared.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. Yeah, prayer is so important. I so agree with that. And, you know, I've heard you say that the number one job in the church is taking care of your husband, the pastor. What advice would you give to other pastors' wives on, on really how to successfully support their husbands?

Charleen Anderson: Being a pastor is a hard job. One of the things that I found out as, because Leith and I grew up together, and we started going together when we were young, I spent a lot of time in the parsonage where he hid where he grew up, and with our pastor and a pastor's wife, and who turned out to be my in-laws. So I, I just really feel like, I know that it's difficult, but when Leith became the senior pastor, I found out that sheep bite, you know? We're shepherds, and we're supposed to take care of our flock, and we, we love them tenderly, but they, they run around, and they get in trouble, and they bite, sometimes. And I found out for one thing that people often will do that because we're a safe place to do it. But it still can hurt. And so, what is important to me is making home a place that Leith wants to come to. That my husband once said, when things are, when sheep are biting, and things are getting uncomfortable, and people are being, yeah, people are being people, and they're hurting so they're striking back at you because they know you're not gonna bite back. And I just want the home to be the place that he says; I can't wait to get home. I know, He may not be saying it in the exact same words, but he's feeling, this is where I'm loved, this is where I'm secure. This is where I'm safe. And that's what I want the home to be, so I don't hit him with all the troubles that he has to face at home. When he as soon as he walks in the door. I want him to be a comfortable place for him. I want it to be a haven, and I need to know I need to be able to read him too. And that's why that's why I need to know him. I need to know who he is and what kind of personality he has and what he can handle and what he can't handle, and when he's at the end of his rope. But I think it's important for us to do that. And I want to support him; if there's something that he's dealing with that I can help and I can do, then I want to take over.

My spiritual gift just helps. One of the my spiritual gifts is helps. And so when Leith used to have funeral services, for example, I would often check and make sure that there was gas in the car. Sometimes I'd drive over to the church building, and I'd check, and he needed more gas in the car. So I would take the car and get the tank filled, or I would get the car washed while he was doing other things. There are just so many little things that we can do to help lighten the load a little bit. And those are the kinds of things that I tried to do to make Leith's home safe for him and make life comfortable for him.

Twanna Henderson: You're a little angel Charleen. I need a Charleen in my life. But I love what you said about sheep bite. I mean, oh, my goodness, that's a whole separate podcast by itself. But it's so true. And because of that, you know, are there particular areas then that you should guard? You know, you know, or have the boundaries with? I mean, what should that look like?

Charleen Anderson: Oh, we're big on boundaries, actually. But within a loving context, I hope. Starting out realizing that a lot of times, well, a couple of things, a lot of times what people are complaining about, or they're being nasty about has nothing to do with us. It has to do with them and the things they're dealing with. And life is very difficult perhaps for them at the time. And there's nobody else that they can; they can pick on, you know that they can attack. And so they attack us because they know we're a safe place to do it. And I think seeing that, looking at it from that perspective, how it keeps you from getting angry with them, helps you to be a little more sympathetic and loving. And sometimes, that really turns things around. We've seen that so often, people that would complain and all would eventually turn out being some of our best friends or biggest supporters. So that's important. But we do have to have boundaries. We do have to be careful what we tell other people too. A long time ago, I don't know, maybe you're too young to remember this, but Art Linkletter was a television personality, and he had a program called "Kids ay the Darndest Things ."And I was just thinking that the other day, there was a little boy on one time and Art was asking him about friends. What is a friend? How do you, how do you know that somebody is a friend? And this little boy said something that I think was really profound. He said, "a friend is somebody, when they say your name, it's safe in their mouth." Isn't that something?

Twanna Henderson: Oh, my goodness.

Charleen Anderson: And I want people's names to be safe in my mouth. Oh, wow. I don't want to tell them things that I don't want to talk about people and put them down or be angry with them or whatever. One of the things that I love doing most is when I'm in a situation where like, the one situation was this man in a store, and we lived nearby, and he was just a grouchy man. His wife owned the store, and it had a lot of knickknacks and different things. And he just didn't like the customers that came in. He was just something else. And people like that I see as a challenge.

I want to; I want to win them over. And this is a vacation area, so we weren't there all the time. But we would go back every year usually, and I would always go into his store. And one year, he said, "your back ." It was just so sweet and so nice. And I thought, yes, I got him! I got him! And I think that's the way we need to deal with people in our congregation, in our flock that are that way too. Sometimes we just need to love them to the point where they say, Oh, you know, they're really nice back to us. And we had to teach them that way. I think that's really important to to love the people, even when they're not lovable because I'm often not lovable and God loves me. And if he loves me, I've got to love his children.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah, it's really easy to love them when they're lovable. Yeah, the hard part is when they're not lovable. And when we're not lovable as well. Yeah, that's; I think sometimes we forget that. I know you referenced a scripture earlier. But are there like scripture verses or stories that have really got at you, you know, over the years and that have just kind of helped you, you know, navigate through ministry life?

Charleen Anderson: Yeah, I have a lot of those. One actually, it comes from 1st Samuel. But it goes back far. Well, it doesn't go back further than 1st Samuel but it was impressing on me. I had a friend in Bible school whose father was an evangelist. And she was the middle of five children. Her oldest sister was a missionary. Was considerably older and was married and had children and had gone to the mission field. Her older brother was a student in Bible school too. And she was one of the; she's just one of the most godly women I know. I saw the fruit. And I spent a lot of time sitting in her room talking to her and just hearing her story. And I knew I was familiar with her father because he was an evangelist on the East Coast, and my in-laws knew him, and one of the things she told me about was that her mother communicated when her father was gone so much that she, that they, they had a part in his ministry when he was gone. So they didn't see him as he's going off and doing that, and we have to stay here and do nothing. Just by giving him the freedom to go and the freedom to do the things that God's called them to do. God sees us as having that ministry too. And when we read 1st Samuel 30, we see that with David. David, it's a long story, and I just would point you to that later, but David had been out fighting the animals, and he came back, and some of the soldiers had been weary, and they had stayed behind, and some had gone, those that had gone with him, and they came back. They wanted to give the people, the other soldiers, just what they had lost, but not extra. And David said, No, we're not going to do this. Those that stay behind get the same as those of us that went out. Basically, in a nutshell, that, that is that that's what I saw. That's how I went into marriage, seeing that, as God called my husband to do things, I was part of that. And the children were part of that too because we would give him the freedom to do the things that God was calling him to do. And so that was really important. There was another verse recently, or more recently that God gave to me. God's really good at doing things like that when I need it, like, you know, giving hours to the days of a righteous person. And I find that as I read my Bible, over the years, there's sometimes verses that just jumped out at me that I never took that way before, but it's like God's voice speaking to me. And this particular verse is 1 Peter 3:6. It says, "Do what is right and don't give way to fear ."And there's so many times when I'm when I know what the right thing is, but I'm afraid that in the context, maybe it's going to do more harm to the LORD than not, and I'm praying about it. And, and he says, and I hear, I've heard his voice, literally, I mean, I had an experience like that. And it was just like, God said do this, and I, so I did it. It was the right thing to do. And I thought it was going to mess everything up. But because God has directed me, I did it and saw tremendous results as a consequence of that. And it was; I just loved hearing God's voice and doing what he said and then letting him take the rest. So yeah, God speaks to me through verses and, and sometimes, those same verses say different things to me, but it's God's voice, and I know it's God's voice. So yeah, I love the stories. I've walked with him all my life, and I, I've, I've heard his voice, and I've not literally, sometimes almost not, not literally, but I know that it's God speaking because it's his wordword. That's, that's what I do.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. And it's so great when the Lord does speak to us, you know, so clearly and, you know, and His word just resonates with, you know, the situations in our lives. I mean, that's, you know, that's what the word does. I mean, it's it is alive, you know, and it just, you know, it has the ability to speak to every situation that we encounter. This has been so good; this has been so good. Charleen, as we close, you know, there are women listening who are pastors, wives and ministry wives and, and others who want to know how to support their pastor's wife. Can you pray for both of those groups of women as we conclude?

Charleen Anderson: I would be honored to. Father, we come into your presence because you're our loving father, and you care, and you listen. Father, I pray so much for these other women that are pastors' wives, that some of them are just delighting in the position, and I pray that you will keep them there and just help them to grow stronger and closer to you and strengthen their marriages. And some of them are in really difficult situations. You know, and you love them, and your heart aches for them. And I, I pray that you will be with them. I pray that you will comfort them and encourage them. Help them to read your word and speak to them through that I pray Father, just comfort them and may they see that they are blessing other people and may they be blessed by the people that they bless. Strengthen them, strengthen all of us, Lord, we're weak; we're sinners. We, we fail you so often. And you love us; you love us anyway. So thank you for that. And thank you for the privilege that we have of being pastors wives and help us to strengthen our husbands and help our husbands to strengthen us and, and give us the joy that only you can give, I pray in Jesus' precious name. Amen.

Twanna Henderson: Amen. Well, Charleen, it has been such a delight to have you on T Time.

Charleen Anderson: Thank you so much for having me, Twanna. This has been a real privilege. A surprise and a  privilege.

Twanna Henderson: Well, it's been my privilege to have you and to all of our listeners. I'm Tawana Henderson. I look forward to connecting with you the next time. Be blessed of the Lord.