We're continuing our conversation on human performance by asking why some performers keep improving under pressure while others hit a ceiling. One of the most powerful answers is curiosity. In this Teamcast, released in partnership with The Emergency Mind Podcast, Dan talks with Marius Aleksa, a performance advisor who has coached elite performers across professional baseball, special operations, medicine, and high-level athletics. Together, they explore how curiosity helps people recognize their strengths, uncover hidden leverage points, and build the kind of solid foundation that supports growth at the edge of their ability.

Welcome to the Teamcast.

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I'm Dr.

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Preston Cline, Director of the

Mission Critical Team Institute.

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Here, we discuss all things

mission critical teams.

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These are teams of four to 12 people

indigenously trained and educated to

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solve rapidly emerging complex adaptive

problem sets where the consequence of

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failure is death or catastrophic loss.

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With my colleagues and our guests,

we bring you insights from combat

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zones to emergency rooms, dedicated to

improving the success, survivability,

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and sustainability of these teams.

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We grapple with how to prepare for

future events and how to develop

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language and frameworks to transfer

critical, often unspoken, knowledge.

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Whether you're on a mission-critical

team or not, we aim to bring you

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the broadest range of topics and

guests as possible to help prepare

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you to perform when it matters most.

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Thank you for joining us, and

hope you enjoy the Teamcast.

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Dan: Hi, folks.

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I'm Dan Dworkis.

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Our guest this episode is Marius Alexa.

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Now, Marius is a performance advisor

with Performance Advisory Group, where

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he helps elite performers find and

leverage their competitive advantage.

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He's previously worked with the

Miami Marlins and with Special

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Operations soldiers, and m- more

than that, he's somebody who over

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the last, I don't know, what has it

been, like two years or something?

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Marius: Two years.

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Dan: Yeah, that I've just genuinely

enjoyed having a wide-ranging, sometimes

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rambling, sometimes focused series of

conversations about what human performance

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is and what it means to help somebody

else really reach their full potential.

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So Marius, welcome, welcome

to the podcast, man.

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I'm happy to have you.

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Marius: Thank you, and I'm glad that

we can do this 'cause I've always

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enjoyed our conversations, even

when they go into some ramblings.

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Dan: Yeah, exactly.

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Awesome ramblings.

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That's what I should've said.

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Exactly.

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Marius: Yeah.

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Dan: Yeah.

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Okay, for folks that don't know you,

can you give a bit of a background

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arc of how you got to be where you

are, and what's that arc look like?

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How did you get interested in

human performance to begin with?

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Marius: I would say it started

with being a collegiate athlete.

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Being a college swimmer at University of

Chicago, I was interested in how do I get

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the most out of myself and my performance.

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And actually, I don't feel like I did

the best job, and I think that planted

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a seed for me to pursue performance

in the rest of the things that I did.

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I studied psychology partly because I

was interested in my own psy- psychology

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and wanted to help my swimming career.

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But after that, I took a winding path.

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So I did Teach For America for two years.

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I was teaching seventh grade science while

also club coaching swimming on the side.

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Did the two years, got a master's

in education, and decided that I

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wanted to pursue coaching full-time.

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I wanted to dive into, pun in- pun not

intended, into the performance realm

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full-time and try to help collegiate

swimmers be the best that they could be.

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And so I volunteered for a year

at Ohio State University, did

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four years at University of Utah.

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But through that time, I started to

notice that I was more interested

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in the general performance aspect

of swimming than swimming itself.

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So that led me down a path

to getting another master's

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in performance psychology.

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Dan: Hmm.

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Marius: And eventually decided

to pursue that full-time.

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And so that led me to the military,

where I was down at Fort Polk, Louisiana,

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doing resiliency training with soldiers.

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Eventually, that led me to

working with special operations

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soldiers, helping instructors

and students become Green Berets.

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And that led to a time with the

Miami Marlins as their mental skills

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coach before now widening out my

path again to work with all elite

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performers, whether that's business,

medical, military, or athletics.

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Dan: Hmm.

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So cool, man.

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And okay, so let's go back to

the beginning for a second.

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So you were a collegiate swimmer, and a-

as you were doing that, was the mental

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aspects of performance, was performance…

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So a- actually, maybe we need to

drive a wedge at the beginning here

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between the difference of mental

performance and human performance.

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And I don't wanna, I don't wanna structure

that or I don't wanna nudge you in any

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direction, but when you're using those

terms, do you see them as the same thing?

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Are they different things?

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Do they-- 'Cause some of the folks

we've talked to in the past have a

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wide difference in how they define

those objects or those models.

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Marius: Yeah.

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I think they're very intertwined, which

is why it can be easy to sometimes

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blend the two or mesh the two.

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I think that there are differences.

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I think that mental performance

impacts human performance quite

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a bit, but it is not everything.

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And- Sure … I've been around some

brilliant strength and conditioning

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coaches, and I see the difference

of high level of instruction and

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training when it comes to physiology

and strength and conditioning and

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how that impacts human performance.

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Mm.

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I think mental performance has a

part to play in those things as well.

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But without that high level of training

when it comes to the physical side,

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then even if you might be the most

mental resilient person ever, you're

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gonna be capped at some point because

of your physical- Sure … capabilities.

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And that's why I, I think

it's beautifully intertwined.

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I think that's why I've always enjoyed

working with high collaboration

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teams, high performance teams, 'cause

oftentimes it's really hard to say

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where one starts and one stops.

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And so it's through working together

with these different realms that you get

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the highest levels of human performance.

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Dan: And correct me if I'm wrong, but in,

in a lot of teams, those are separated,

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maybe even siloed, where you have some

people working on the physical aspect of

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the thing you're doing and some people

working on the mental aspect of the

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thing you're doing, and then the point of

integration is left up to the player or

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the operator or whatever you wanna say.

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Is that-- Am I reading that right?

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Marius: Yes.

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A lot of times it can be that way.

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I think I've naturally just gravitated

towards having conversations

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with those different silos.

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And- Sure … I, I feel like maybe I've

experienced less of that siloing because

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of the way that I operate and because my

belief's that it's not just one thing.

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It's not gonna come

down to just one thing.

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Sure.

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I believe that the areas that I've been

responsible for are incredibly important,

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but I don't think that it's everything.

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And so I take it upon myself

to have these conversations.

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And so I don't think you're wrong.

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I think it's interesting to hear

you say that because it makes me

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reflect on the fact that I've probably

experienced a little less of that

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siloing than maybe it actually is.

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Dan: Great.

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Yeah.

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No, I think it makes sense just from

a fundamental level that to perform

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at a high level with whatever you're

doing requires a mix of obviously,

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like, technical capacity and skill to

do a thing, some sort of baseline level

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of performance ability, whether that

we're talking about-- I just came from

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a jujitsu class this morning, right?

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So I'm thinking about,

okay, what are the…

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Like, you need some sort of…

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You need strength, you need endurance,

you need, like, flexibility, right?

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You need, like, a kinesthetic

sense of yourself.

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And then you also need the mental

side of understanding how to

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keep yourself calm under pressure

and to do a lot of that work.

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And Paul- It's great to hear that there

are teams where you're proactively

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integrating those streams of thought

and streams of technique together so

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that when you give it to the-- or when

you use that to support the operator

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or the athlete or whatever, it's not

entirely on them to integrate it.

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Yes.

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And you can imagine two teams, right?

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One where they, here's your buffet,

but you-- here's the ingredients to

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cook a meal, but you have to cook

the meal yourself, versus here we're

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gonna show you how to cook a meal.

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Now here's a meal.

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Now go eat this meal.

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And there's just, like, different

ways to put that together.

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Marius: Yeah.

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I love that analogy because it

makes me think that whether it's

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through working with the military or

athletics, I often find it's like,

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"Hey, let me see you cook your meal."

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Dan: Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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" Marius: Let me see how you cook

your meal right now," and then

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based off of what I see- Mm … it's

reflective questions, it's curiosity.

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Why did you do it that way?

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Have you ever considered

maybe doing it this way?

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Like, may- Yeah.

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And then y- y- you might get an

answer because they say, "Hey, I tried

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cooking it that way, it was nasty."

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Right?

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Sure.

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You're like, "Oh, okay.

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So we're definitely not gonna

go down that path, right?"

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Dan: Yeah.

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Marius: Or maybe if you would've done

steps one, two, and three in this

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different order, it would've turned

out differently, but I-- that's why

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I really like that analogy because

I find that through my experiences,

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what I've been able to do, it's

often seeing them cook that meal-

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Dan: Mm-hmm

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Marius: and then being able to provide

suggestions, provide support in that

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way, that I don't think I would be able

to do if I didn't have that experience,

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I didn't-- I wasn't able to observe them

in that natural setting, doing it to the

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best of their b- ability at that time.

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Dan: I, I think you can tell when

we do podcasts if I'm hungry or not

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based on if I use food metaphors,

so we'll see if that-- We'll track

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that over time and see what happens.

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But, okay, so when you were starting out

in this and you started getting interested

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in performance, your own performance,

the people that were around you when

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you were swimming at the beginning,

how would they fit into this metaphor?

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Would you categorize them as people who

were leaving the integration to you?

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Were they helping you cook that meal?

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Were they-- What did that look

like, like, when you first started

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saying, "Hey, I think my swimming

could get better if I did XYZ"?

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Marius: Are you talking about

teammates or coaches and

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support staff, things like that?

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Dan: I'm gonna say yes to that.

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Marius: Okay.

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I think that when I was a swimmer,

I-- That's a great question.

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I think I took it like they, my

coaches are gonna outline the

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steps, and I just have to execute

these steps as best as I can.

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It's gonna work out.

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And if it doesn't work out, then it's

something on me and, and my execution.

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I also fully recognize that being a

Division III swimmer, w- our coaches were

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overloaded with the amount of athletes

that they had to coach, and so- Sure

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I didn't have the same specialization

and training that I then was able

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to do as a Division I coach at Ohio

State and at University of Utah.

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And so oftentimes, I was training

much more like a mid-distance swimmer

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when I was a sprinter and probably

would have benefited from more

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specific, sprint-specific training.

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But I, I think that's interesting because

I had that ownership over my performance.

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I had that-- I felt responsible for how I

performed, how I executed that training.

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Looking back, I think I would have

been very receptive and I could have

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benefited from more specificity.

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Yeah, I don't-- I-- It's-- That's

a very interesting question.

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Dan: I'll tell you why I asked that, it--

which is that I think that we've seen

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from multiple folks on the podcast than

just in, in general with work through

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The Emergency Mind, that there's a common

thread or common arc of somebody who's

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performing well, who gets curious about

how they could personally perform better.

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And the first set of questions are

usually some sort of technical thing.

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"I wanna get faster at X.

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I want to lift more of this.

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I wanna shoot better.

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I want to last longer in the fire.

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I wanna…"

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You know, for me, it was, it was

intub-intubating somebody, like putting

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a breathing tube in, where I was like,

"Why can't I be better at that thing?"

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And it starts with this small nidus

question of, "I wanna get better at this

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technical skill," and then it rolls out

from there in terms of how could I get

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better in general, and then where do I

look for performance work around this?

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And then eventually you get to this

concept of from a more ecological model,

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like how do I set the stage for something

to grow in the right direction, right?

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Like, how do I set the soil and water it

and provide the nutrients so the thing

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grows by itself in the right direction?

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And if you approach it from the other

angle, where you take some of the really

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elite teams, Olympic-level sport or really

high-functioning business or a lot of

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the teams that we've both worked with,

those people are obsessed about systems.

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What are the systems that are in place

that make the individual operator,

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the individual agent, whatever, most

likely to succeed in this environment?

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But that's a very different path

than the human being being like,

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"I wanna get better at playing

chess," or whatever it is.

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And I'm struck by that.

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I don't know what to do with that

sentence because you have the individual

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people that are, like, finding their

way through the world, and then

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you have the elite systems that are

more focused on systematic support.

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Somehow, they sometimes meet in the

middle, which is when I reflect on

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the story you're telling me about

your arc, that's what I'm hearing.

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You were interested, you got into

it, you studied more things, and

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now you look at how to help people

bridge that gap by themselves.

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And your theory and your philosophy,

both in what you've said here and

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in what you and I have talked about

before, i-i-is some sort of, is some

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sort of meso-scale version of that.

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I don't even know if I have a question

on that, just that I've been seeing

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that arc play itself out before.

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Marius: If we go back to

Mario's a collegiate swimmer.

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And I've seen this in, more specifically

in some of the athletes I've worked

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with in, in my baseball career.

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I think of it sometimes as a maturation

of your performance, a maturity that has

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to happen in your performance development.

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And I think that's what you're

talking about, where when I, I was

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that athlete as a 18-year-old kid,

I ju- I just wanted to be faster.

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Dan: Yeah.

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Marius: And I just wanted to be faster,

so I'm just gonna train hard and do

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all the things that ask- are asked

from me, and then, you know, I'm gonna

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walk away from practice, and that's it.

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But then as I went through my career,

the way that I look back at my four-year

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collegiate career is slowly stripping

away fears, excuses, obstacles to when

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I was a senior in college and realizing

this is it for my athletic career.

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There's no post-graduate options

for me as a collegiate swimmer.

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I wasn't fast enough.

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I wasn't good enough to do that But

it stripped everything away to saying,

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what are all the things that you can

do to maximize your chances of success?

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And these examples now might sound

silly at this point in time, but as a

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college kid that had 5:30 practice, I'm

like, "Hey, I need eight hours of sleep.

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What do I need to do in

order to make that happen?"

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Mm-hmm.

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And it was Sunday night, go to

bed at 9:30, or Wednesday night

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as a college kid, go to bed at

9:30 and get those eight hours.

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Dan: Yeah.

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Marius: And I remember I started

taking my hydration super seriously.

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I had a 32-ounce Gatorade squeeze water

bottle, and I just carried it with me.

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And what struck me was I could have

been doing this my whole four years.

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But I almost needed that, the staring

in the face of, "Hey, this is going

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to end, and you wanna be able to walk

away saying that you did everything

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possible to m- to make it happen."

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And so that was my maturity- Interesting

… in that performance development.

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But I saw it in professional baseball too,

where whether it's holding back, whether

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it's just not knowing what that could look

like, th- really have opened up my eyes

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to, to the systems, to the environment,

to the process that we are creating.

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I think it's why I stress increasing

your probability of success, knowing

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that nothing is guaranteed, but knowing

that there's a lot of things that you

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can do that are within your control

to put yourself in a better position.

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Dan: I-- Man, I love that thought,

that, that realization that I

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could have been doing this before.

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Why wasn't I?

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Right?

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What was it that was doing that?

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And I think there's a sense That

happens a- in a bunch of these

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different fields where you're like,

"This has worked so far, and it cost

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me so much energy to get to this point

that I'm not gonna do anything else."

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Or maybe I haven't seen from the people

around me anything else other than this.

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This is what I'm gonna do.

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Versus that concept of-- A-and really

maybe we're talking about explore versus

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exploit strategies here, where you're

either gonna continue doing the same

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thing you've been doing before or you're

gonna take the energy to go try something

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else and see what that feels like.

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And, you know, that willingness to do what

is a very hard thing as a college student,

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which is to go to bed at nine thirty.

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Like, that's not easy, right?

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Like, now it's great.

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Yeah, no problem.

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Yeah.

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Going to bed at nine thirty, but

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Marius: now I'm looking forward to it.

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Not something that I forced

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Dan: myself to do.

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Yeah, seven AM jujitsu this morning?

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No problem.

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Let's go.

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Yeah.

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But it's different.

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But the willingness to try a thing

and to really lean into it a-and to do

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those first couple steps and then, and

then to make that whole judgment arc

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of, "All right, I'm gonna experiment.

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I'm gonna try this.

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Here's what the outcome's gonna look like.

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Did it work?

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All right, now I'm gonna go back and try

this next thing," is-- That's a skill that

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y-you have to be taught at some point.

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And, and I guess I'm poking a lot at the

early part of your career because a-as we

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then transition to all the other really

cool things that you've done, I'd imagine

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you brought your experience arc on that.

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But along the way, you armed yourself

with a lot of other models from

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education, from performance psychology.

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H-how did that interface look for you as

you're looking back on your own experience

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and now you're blending together the

tools of all these other disciplines?

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Were there moments along the

way where it seemed to fit?

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Were there things that didn't mesh?

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Marius: That is a great question

because it makes me think of the

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fact that in all the domains that

I've walked into For example, working

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with special operations soldiers.

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I don't have any military background.

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I-- When I first started working with

the military, I had zero concept of

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what they went through and, you know,

what they do and all these things.

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Same thing with professional baseball.

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I walked into a Major League clubhouse

with my baseball experience being

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a Little League baseball player

that stopped playing after, like,

340

eighth grade, and I was not good.

341

And yet I was able to walk

into these environments, and I

342

was able to do effective work.

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And I sometimes surprised myself in being

able to integrate in these environments

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where I'm like, "I don't belong here."

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These are elite.

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These are the best of the best,

top one percent of performers

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that we're talking about.

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And when…

349

If we go back to my experience as

a collegiate swimmer, I think there

350

was enough there that just made me

really curious about getting better.

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The one thing that I didn't want to do

is bleed my own experience onto a special

352

operations soldier or a Major League

baseball player because I'm like, "I

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don't know what your experience is like."

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Sure.

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I don't-- I can't tell you what it's like

to be in a batter's box facing ninety-six

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mile per hour fastballs, if not faster.

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But I can ask you questions about this

while being armed with high-performance

358

principles and recognize some themes

and patterns that might be universal

359

or certain principles or concepts that

might be a little bit more universal.

360

And then based off of your answers

and your experience, we can see how

361

that fits into you and helping you.

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I think that early part of my journey

sparked enough curiosity that I then

363

carried through to those experience

and somehow made it relatable to this

364

D3 college swimmer could somehow find

relatability or find common ground

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to speak to a special operations

soldier or speak to a Major League

366

baseball player and find that common

ground that then says, "Okay, this

367

is what the work is gonna look like.

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This is where we go from

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Dan: here."

370

Yeah, it-

371

Curiosity is, like, not necessarily

a word we hear a lot in the

372

human performance space, right?

373

There's a lot of broadcasting of do this,

like sleep this much, drink this much

374

water, all of which is good and important.

375

But that sense of curiosity, both in terms

of like you described it before, like

376

how did you learn to perform in this way?

377

What were the reasons that

you decided to do it this way?

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And what are the things that you're

considering doing differently?

379

And, hey, here's a goal, get

this much sleep or whatever.

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Why do you think you haven't

been doing that so far?

381

I love the way you're asking those

questions and using that curiosity

382

as a both an aligning tool with this

other person who has a different lived

383

experience, and then also a wedge into

actual sort of behavioral change, right?

384

'Cause you're almost getting all

the way back to, like, motivational

385

interviewing and that kind of

technique in order to get people to

386

recognize where they could get better.

387

Marius: Yeah.

388

I definitely think that there's elements

of motivational interviewing, but I

389

probably started doing it way before I

knew what motivational interviewing was.

390

But a, a lot of that is going

back to When I step into working

391

with Green Berets, I'm like, "Who,

who am I to tell you what to do?

392

Who am I to prescribe you stuff?"

393

And that's why I lean on asking questions

because those guys have very good reasons

394

for why they're doing what they're doing.

395

Now, they will probably be the first

ones to tell you that there's better

396

ways to do things, and they're

constantly looking for those better ways.

397

But I've always found that by examining

where you are and why you're doing

398

things the way that you're doing, then

we can pull the strengths from that

399

and see what's, what is working well

with it, what can we lean on, what

400

can we maybe utilize with what you're

doing well to continue getting better.

401

But it-- to me, I, I almost cringe

at the idea of coming in and saying,

402

"You need to do this and this."

403

And maybe that's just coming from

that mental background- Sure … as

404

opposed to a more physical background

where it's, "Yes, we know that

405

you should drink this much water.

406

You should attack the

exercises in this way."

407

But for me, it's being interested in,

"Dan, how do you think about this?

408

What's going through your head in,

of, of attacking it in this way?

409

What's the perspective that you see?

410

And let me share maybe some of my

perspective of what I'm seeing, and

411

can you help me address this gap?

412

And why are you thinking of it this

way, and I think of it this way.

413

Like, where's the common ground there?"

414

Yeah.

415

And through those discussions and

conversations, it creates this very

416

organic way of, oh, this, these

are things that we can improve.

417

It-- I find that it works

well because it's…

418

They're not my ideas.

419

Sure.

420

We're coming up with ideas together

to attack, and there's an inherent

421

ownership that's baked into the process.

422

Dan: I'm struck by it…

423

There was a, another guest on the

podcast a while back, Kevin Cyr from

424

the SWAT universe, and he, when some-

when one of his juniors would present

425

a plan to him, like, "Hey, we're gonna

take this house," or, "We're gonna do

426

this thing," or whatever, he would ask

the question, "Okay, tell me what you

427

thought of but didn't choose and why."

428

And that sort of same sort of

mirrored logic to what you're

429

describing, which is like, "All right.

430

So you've decided to get ready for

your performance moment in this way.

431

Can you help me understand w-

what did you dis-- what did

432

you think about and not do?"

433

Some version of like,

"Why do you do that?"

434

"I tie my shoes this way because

when I was in kindergarten,"

435

blah, blah, blah, blah.

436

Right?

437

You're like, "Okay, cool.

438

Are there other ways to do it?

439

Are there other things to throw in there?

440

Where are you getting stuck?"

441

And man, I just…

442

I love that, I love that

vector into these things.

443

Marius: I love that question because of

the respect that it shows your junior.

444

Dan: Sure.

445

Marius: So as a…

446

And this is me speculating, but as

a senior leader, here's an idea.

447

He might recognize gaps, but he's showing

respect by saying- Like, I'm sure you've

448

thought through this plan, so talk through

some of these gaps that I'm seeing because

449

I'm sure you've given it consideration.

450

And that's a very-- That's…

451

I think it's very respectful.

452

It's showing generosity to that

junior, and maybe they didn't

453

think that through, but that's a…

454

It's, it almost creates a psychological

safety to then identify some

455

of these gaps where it's like,

"Hey, I'm not attacking you.

456

You know, I'm not

shooting down your idea."

457

Sure.

458

I'm recog- We have two

people in this room.

459

We have different perspectives.

460

We have different experiences.

461

We're recognizing some gaps, but

before I say, "Hey, that's a gap.

462

Why didn't you think of that?"

463

It's, "Talk me through your process.

464

Talk me through the options

that you didn't take."

465

And I feel it creates a, a just a

healthier, more productive conversation

466

where you're avoiding that junior

getting defensive, and you're laying

467

out those options, and I feel like that

just plants the seeds of a lot more

468

learning and growth than anything else.

469

Dan: And that respect and

curiosity is such an i- such a

470

good way to get into performance.

471

And I think about e-even this morning

in jujitsu class, I was rolling

472

with the instructor, and we, he

was going from a butterfly half

473

guard, and I pinned his foot to the

ground, and he paused for a second.

474

He goes, "W- Tell me, explain

to me why you did that.

475

What was your thought process?"

476

And I looked down and was genuinely

surprised that my hand was down there.

477

I had no idea it was h-

I was, like, so lost.

478

I, like, had no idea.

479

But it was a great, it was a great way

to be like, "Okay, I actually don't know.

480

I must have had some reason for this.

481

Now let me, like, think about it next

time I do it again and roll into it."

482

And I think there's a way to Help

people who are performing at the

483

edge of their ability, which is

really what we're talking about, help

484

them become more conscious of the

choices they're making, just like

485

you in the water and waking up early.

486

Become more conscious of the dis- of

the choices they're making, but also of

487

the systems that are supporting those

choices in a way that is respectful

488

and elevating and helps them figure

out, "Ah, okay, here's a point of

489

leverage I hadn't thought of before.

490

I'm gonna go after this, and

that's gonna help me be better."

491

Marius: I love that.

492

I-- Because, okay, so for you, what

you said your head was down somewhere?

493

You were in some compromising position?

494

My

495

Dan: hand, yeah, yeah, my hand.

496

Yeah, okay.

497

I don't know how I did this, yeah.

498

Marius: But even if you-- When you say,

"I don't know," or, "I have no idea,"

499

even if then that makes you think

about how you got into that position,

500

there's something to learn from that.

501

And then on the flip side, it

also gives you the option or the

502

possibility to think through, "Okay,

what would I have done differently?

503

What would I have done to prevent

myself i- to, to be in that position?"

504

One of my favorite topics or things to

dig into with Green Berets, with Major

505

League Baseball players, with elite

performers, is them recognizing the

506

great things that they're doing that

they might not give enough credit to.

507

Mm-hmm.

508

Because when you talk about creating

systems, creating a process, these guys

509

and girls are where they are for a reason.

510

They're doing things really well.

511

But because of the high standards that

they have, because they're constantly

512

pushing that edge, that limit, oftentimes

they don't give enough credit to the

513

great things that they're doing, and

sometimes they don't even see it.

514

It's just, that's just expectation.

515

And for me, it's never about

handing out gold stars.

516

It's never about handing out trophies.

517

But it's about creating these foundations

of things that you're doing well so

518

that you can lean back on them, that

you can leverage them, that you can

519

use them to continue pushing yourself

out onto the edge a- and the limit.

520

And so one of my favorite things is

when I'm having a conversation with

521

a performer that I'm like, they're

incredible, but they have that moment,

522

they're like, "Oh yeah, I do that.

523

I am pretty good at that."

524

And recognizing that so that

now it's a more specific tool.

525

Now it's an advantage that they can

intentionally deploy as opposed to just

526

something that happens, as opposed to

something that they almost luck into.

527

So now they can be more

consistent with it.

528

They can be more intentional with it.

529

And I always find that, I,

I find that so fascinating.

530

Dan: So we're still on curiosity, and

now we're moving from, like, why-- what

531

are the choices you're making to what

are the choices you want to be making?

532

Can you amplify the ones that you love?

533

Can you find these points of leverage,

and can you redesign, in subtle

534

ways, your responses to stuff to take

advantage of those moments of leverage?

535

That's really cool.

536

Marius: Yeah, and I, I often use

the word foundation because I want

537

these high performers to continuously

be investing in a solid footing.

538

And I think that it's a very apt

metaphor because the best of the best

539

are constantly pushing their limits.

540

They're going into deep water and, and

by having a solid foundation, having a

541

solid footing, building a good base for

themselves, that's what allows them to

542

go into that uncharted territory and know

that, "Hey, I have these systems in place.

543

I have the tools in place that allow

me to go into uncertain situations,

544

uncharted territory, all this

stuff, and I know I'm gonna be good.

545

I know I'm gonna be okay."

546

And I just-- And okay can be…

547

It's very relative, right?

548

It looks very different in, in, in

different domains, but just that concept

549

of having a firm foundation that you

are well aware of, that you're well

550

familiar with what gives you that solid

base allows you to continue pushing

551

those limits in, in, in brilliant ways.

552

Dan: I wanna share w-- another

question from a prior guest.

553

Th-this is from Diane Chadwick

Jones, who worked in the oil and gas

554

industry at a very high level, and

she described the experience of going

555

to oil rigs and working with these

really big, rough guys, and she'd ask

556

them, "What are you struggling with?"

557

And they'd say, "Nothing."

558

She'd be like, "Okay, what, what

did you use to struggle with?"

559

"Nothing."

560

And then finally she'd ask them,

"Somebody that's like you, but

561

weaker and smaller, what do you

think they would struggle with?"

562

They'd be like, "Oh, that valve is

really hard to turn over there."

563

And all of a sudden it just

like completely circumvents and

564

does some judo on their sort

of sense of ego and everything.

565

And wh- when you're describing

this, like what are you doing?

566

The sister question to that in some sense

is, "If you weren't as good at your job,

567

what do you think you'd find challenging?

568

What are the hidden areas that, that

you're overcoming that you don't realize

569

that every day you walk in and you've

got 30 pounds of lead on your bag

570

for reasons that nobody knows about?

571

Or there's this thing that's

really hard that doesn't need to

572

be hard, or there's some way…"

573

Th- there's like the positive spin

of what are you already doing right

574

that maybe you're not focused on?

575

And then there's the other

spin, which is what is our…

576

how is our system failing you that we're

not aware of because you're just so

577

good that you're compensating for it?

578

And if we get curious on both of those

vectors, we end together at this arc

579

we were talking about at the beginning,

which is like performance comes from

580

the human becoming curious and better

and the system doing a better job

581

supporting them at the same time.

582

And w- when you run both of those things

together, then you get this absolutely

583

potential for true elite performance.

584

Marius: Yeah.

585

I, I think how powerful the

questions can be, right?

586

And just by framing the questions

in a different way, we can

587

attack some of those things.

588

That's a brilliant job by that

guest of breaking it down of, okay,

589

you might not be struggling, but

where would someone else struggle?

590

A- and that also makes me think

of when I've talked to people that

591

are trying to get into the field,

I think of those, I wouldn't even

592

call them hidden costs, but just the

hidden stuff that, that we don't see.

593

Mm-hmm.

594

It, it makes me think of how often

times we fall into the trap of

595

thinking, "I don't want to struggle.

596

I shouldn't be struggling.

597

I need to avoid this

struggle," or whatever it is.

598

But then when you get into some of

these conversations of strengths,

599

of solid foundation, you naturally

get a conversation about overcoming

600

obstacles, overcoming challenges.

601

They didn't get there because of

natural talent or just natural skill.

602

It's because they had

to overcome something.

603

They had to attack something.

604

They had to work really hard

at something, and then all of a

605

sudden, they're a Green Beret.

606

All of a sudden, they're a

Major League baseball player.

607

But it's because of these

hidden struggles, these hidden

608

challenges that they overcame,

that got them to that point.

609

But it's still a trap that we all

deal with, where it's, "Oh, no,

610

I'm struggling in this moment.

611

This isn't good.

612

I need to get out of this."

613

It's a moment just this helped

you get to this point, right?

614

And so it can help strip away some

of those expectations or those

615

connotations that come with that

struggle and allow you to just be

616

present of, "Okay, what's at my disposal?

617

How do I wanna attack this?

618

How can I be present with this?"

619

Because two steps down the road,

it's gonna be something that you're

620

thankful for, or it's gonna be something

that you now utilize to, to leverage

621

yourself into even a stronger position.

622

Dan: Man, that's so good.

623

"A moment just this helped

you get to this point."

624

That is so good.

625

I, I hate to do this, but

we have to wrap this up.

626

This has been so fun and so interesting.

627

I wanna give you a chance on the way

out to issue a challenge to everybody

628

listening to this, something you want

them to do differently on their next day,

629

their next shift, anything like that.

630

And while you're thinking about that,

I'm gonna stall for you slightly by

631

doing our normal disclaimer, which is

that our job here on the "Emergency

632

Mind" podcast is to take the best of

what other people and teams have figured

633

out about performance under pressure.

634

We don't do anything that's medical

advice, and myself and my guests are

635

only talking for ourselves, not for

anybody that we work with or for.

636

All right, so hopefully that's enough time

to, to-- for you to come up with something

637

brilliant to say at the end here, but

what do you want folks to do differently

638

after listening to this episode?

639

Marius: It makes me think of

us talking about strengths.

640

And so I-- generally, I want

people to pay attention to their

641

strengths and to utilize them.

642

But more specifically, I would be very

curious if your listeners, while paying

643

attention to their strengths and their

competitive advantages and saying, "Hey,

644

this is something that I'm pretty good

at this Pick one action that you could

645

do today or in the next couple days to

specifically leverage that strength.

646

So if it's your ability to connect with

people, then maybe it's s- shooting off

647

a text, shooting off a call, and reaching

out to someone that you haven't talked to

648

in a while and recognizing them for their

strengths or something that you're seeing

649

them do well or something like that.

650

I can't tell you what that is, but

it's the idea of paying attention to

651

the strengths, pay attention to the

things that you do well, and create

652

an intentional, purposeful plan to

leverage that in some specific way.

653

Dan: I love it.

654

Marius, thank you so much.

655

Thank you for coming on the podcast.

656

Thank you for sharing all the wisdom.

657

Marius: I appreciate you, Dan.

658

This was a lot of fun.

659

I feel like I learned more

than, than anything else.

660

This is, this is perfect for me.

661

Dan: That's awesome.

662

Preston: Thank you again for

listening to our Teamcast.

663

If you found value in this discussion,

the best way to support our work

664

and ensure you don't miss future

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665

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666

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667

For more on Mission Critical Team

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668

and show notes, visit missioncti.com.

669

You can also connect with us on LinkedIn.

670

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671

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672

Janese Jackson, at janese@missioncti.com.

673

That's J-A-N-E-S-E@missioncti.com.

674

Until next time, thanks.