In this episode I share practical ways HR professionals and managers can better support employees at risk of redundancy throughout the process and not just procedurally, but personally too.

Drawing on my experience in HR, coaching and outplacement support, I explore the small actions that often make the biggest difference. From communication and empathy to financial signposting, job search support and helping people regain confidence, this episode has lots of thoughtful and practical ideas for organisations that want to handle redundancy with compassion and dignity.

Useful Links From This Episode

Connect with June on LinkedIn

Visit the Wildwood Coaching website

Sign up to hear about our next FREE 1 hour Redundancy Lunch and Learn

Financial well being episode: Apple Season 3 - Episode 4 Redundancy and Financial Wellbeing: Supporting People Through the Shock

Spotify: Season 3 - Episode 4 Redundancy and Financial Wellbeing: Supporting People Through the Shock

Preparing line managers episode: Apple Season 1 - Episode 8 Preparing line managers for redundancy consultation meetings

Spotify: Season 1 - Episode 8 Preparing line managers for redundancy consultation meetings

Why empathy matters: Apple Season 1 - Episode 5 Why empathy matters in redundancy

Spotify: Season 1 - Episode 5 Why empathy matters in redundancy

Rate and Review the Podcast

If you found this episode of Redundancy Matters helpful, please rate and review it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

If you’re kind enough to leave a review, please let June know so she can say thank you. You can always reach her at: [email protected]

Enjoyed This Episode? Don’t Miss the Next One!

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Welcome to Redundancy

Matters with me, June Hogan.

2

This is the podcast where I help

HR professionals and leaders

3

managing redundancies to put

people at the heart of the process.

4

And if you've not tuned in before,

it's really great to have you

5

here, and thanks for listening.

6

I'm a qualified career coach.

7

I'm also an outplacement specialist, and

I've got a background in HR, and I've been

8

working with individuals and organizations

9

So today, I'm talking about some of the

practical things that you can do during

10

a redundancy process that sit outside

of the formal consultation meetings.

11

These are practical ideas that I hope

will help ensure that people feel heard

12

and supported throughout the process.

13

Now, I know from my own experience what

it can feel like to feel isolated during

14

a redundancy process, and how much of

those kind of seemingly small things

15

would've had a big impact on me, not

only, only during the process itself, but

16

also afterwards when I began the work of

rebuilding my confidence and really trying

17

to figure out what I was gonna do next.

18

So these things that I'm sharing are

from my own experience on both sides

19

of the redundancy table, from the years

of supporting clients with outplacement

20

support, and reflecting on their feedback

on processes that landed well and

21

maybe those that didn't land so well

22

So I think sometimes we might

underestimate how much the small

23

things really matter when you're

planning a redundancy process, or maybe

24

you're focusing on the legal aspects.

25

Perhaps there's pressure from the

leadership team to get all of this

26

completed as soon as possible, as

there's a focus on cost and a focus

27

on the timeline and all the planning.

28

But there are lots of things that you

might not see on a spreadsheet or see

29

on a plan that really make a difference.

30

Things like the line manager who checks

in outside of those formal meetings,

31

who's available, who really understands

and wants to speak to those members of

32

their team who are at risk and offer

them support and guidance where they can.

33

Then there's the HR manager who might

take a few minutes of their time to

34

explain how recruiters shortlist CVs,

for example, because there'll be lots of

35

people at risk of redundancy who haven't

had to look for a role in some time.

36

Some people have never had to look for

a job, and I certainly see that when I

37

work with individuals in outplacement

support who have had very long careers in

38

some cases, and in some cases very, what

you would call successful careers, up

39

to senior manager, director, and beyond,

and they've never had to look for a job.

40

So that opportunity to just sit down

and spend some time with people,

41

again, can make a big difference.

42

Also, there's the willingness to

listen to what's going on for someone

43

outside of those consultation meetings,

or perhaps someone who makes a warm

44

introduction to their network and

offers insights on feedback and

45

potential career direction for somebody.

46

Really making sure that individuals

know that they matter even though

47

they're going through a redundancy

consultation process because at that

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time nothing is final, no decisions

have been made, and they're still an

49

employee and a member of the team.

50

It could be the LinkedIn recommendation

or the support or comment on someone's

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open-to-work posts, for example,

or just the conversations around

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rebuilding confidence and recognizing

that redundancy doesn't affect

53

everyone equally, and so some may need

more specific support than others.

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And those are some just a few of the

things that really matter to people

55

that I know from my own experience and

also experience supporting clients.

56

Because those are often the things that

people remember years later, and they're

57

things that people share with me where

they felt like they were really treated

58

like an individual and not just like a

number on a spreadsheet in a process.

59

One of the things I also notice is

that there's often a misconception

60

that communication can only happen

during formal consultation meetings.

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'Cause unfortunately, when communication

disappears or slows down, then people

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will fill in the gaps themselves,

and they'll usually do that with

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worst case scenario situations.

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So depending on the timeline for

consultation, there might not be much to

65

say for a while after the announcement.

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But I'd recommend not leaving that void

for people to fill in the gaps themselves.

67

So my recommendation would be to

communicate even when you have nothing

68

to say, which might sound a bit weird.

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But reinforcing messages that might

not have landed completely the first

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time, and letting people know that

this is still on your radar, things

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are happening in the background, and

encouraging line managers to stay

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visible and accessible at all times.

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And for some line managers, this could

be their first time leading a process.

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They might not feel confident about

having informal meetings, but people

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don't necessarily expect their

managers to have all the answers.

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What they're looking for is their

presence and their support, and not

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the avoidance that I've sometimes

heard clients share with me that

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can happen after an announcement.

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Because they want someone to know that

they haven't disappeared just because

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the situation might feel a bit awkward.

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And some managers can get this

wrong because they become frightened

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of saying the wrong thing, so

then they say very little at all.

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But even if the line managers aren't

sure, then they can say so, and they

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can arrange to get answers or set up a

meeting with a member of the HR team.

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But being visible and supportive

is what really matters.

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It's not about knowing

everything, and it's also not

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about making things up either.

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Now, in terms of support, most

people don't need that kind of

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forced positivity at these times.

90

The kind of, "Oh, you've got this, you'll

be fine," messaging, which comes from

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a place of good intentions, but doesn't

actually help anyone in that moment.

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Because honesty and empathy are

way more important than that.

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And I recorded a separate podcast on

the power of empathy in redundancy

94

situations, and I'll put a link to that

in the show notes, because there's a huge

95

difference between sympathy and empathy.

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So some line managers, and indeed,

you know, we, we're all, um,

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sort of guilty of this, I guess.

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And, um, empathy is harder than sympathy.

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But sympathy can be things like, "Oh,

well, at least you've got some money.

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At least you've got a good payout.

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I'm sure you'll land on your feet,

and everything happens for a reason."

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Now, these are unintentional because

they're not, that they don't come

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from a place of well-meaning.

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But what they do serve to do is

kind of push away what someone

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might be feeling and try to get

the conversation to move on.

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So if you've ever been on the other

end of one of those statements,

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you'll sort of think, "Oh, okay.

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Well, maybe you're right.

109

Yeah.

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I, I have got some

money so that, that's...

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Yeah, I'll just stop talking

about that now, shall I?"

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Um, or, "Everything happens for a reason."

113

Yeah, okay.

114

Hmm.

115

Yeah.

116

Well, you might think that,

but, but maybe I don't.

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So- it's about moving the conversation

forward from that individual's

118

perspective, rather than encouraging

the, uh, individual to open up and to

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talk more about what might be going on.

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So that sympathy can kind

of create the distance.

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Whereas empathy is more about

things like, "I'm, I can appreciate

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this is a difficult time for you.

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There's a lot of uncertainty,

and I guess that's very hard."

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Or things like, "You don't need to

have everything figured out right now."

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So those are sort of sometimes

reflective statements, but they just

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allow the individual to know that

you're happy for them to continue

127

talking about what's on their mind.

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And also using silence is hugely

important as well to give the individual

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some time just to reflect and to think

about what they might want to say next.

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And one thing that I've learned from

coaching people through redundancy

131

is that everyone is carrying often a

lot more than we might all realize.

132

So I've worked with people who are

worried about their finances, people who

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on the surface of it you might not think

might be worried about their finances.

134

I've worked with people who are worried

about their age, people who are wondering

135

if their skills are still relevant, some

who haven't interviewed in 15 years or

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more, or ever, some who are trying to hold

everything together for their children

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while pretending that they're coping,

and others who are having to provide care

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and take on additional responsibilities

for their children, their relatives,

139

and people within their community.

140

And so that's a lot to deal

with when you've got redundancy

141

on top of all of that as well.

142

So it's about being able to support

people, to look for the signs, to

143

have those open conversations, and

to importantly signpost where there

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might be extra support or specialist

support that might be needed.

145

And again, I'll put a link in the show

notes to a free download that I've got

146

that gives some guidance on signposting.

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And we'll come on to talk about financial

signposting in a minute as well,

148

'cause I think that's something that's

really important to help to support

149

people through the process as well.

150

So there might be some people

for whom redundancy is a relief,

151

so I certainly have worked with

individuals in that situation.

152

So for some people who were planning

to leave anyway perhaps, but just

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didn't know how to or had the courage

to, it could be that they are excited

154

and looking forward to leaving, maybe

financially this is the best thing for

155

them So those people are gonna need

support too in how to manage their

156

reactions and their emotions in front

of others for whom this is devastating.

157

And so I think they can still be

empathetic towards colleagues, but

158

they might need some support from

yourselves or from line managers

159

on how they do that in the best

way, and what does that empathetic

160

approach really look like for people.

161

So as well as these things, I

think there's some real value

162

in asking what people, what

support would actually help them.

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So asking those at risk what

support they need, and then

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gathering topics for group sessions.

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So you can use the employee reps for

this, um, if you're in collective

166

consultation, or you can do it in

individual meetings if you're not.

167

And what this does is it really

helps to give people a sense of some

168

control when the process can feel

out of control and overwhelming.

169

You're asking them what would they

want and helping them to make some

170

decisions and have some agency

and advocacy over these things.

171

Because the support that you're

going to offer, and you may have

172

already lined up some support, you

may already have an outplacement

173

provider in place, for example, it's

only supportive if it feels relevant.

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So if you are using an outplacement

provider, then I'd encourage you to ask

175

them if they can tailor their support.

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Or if you're doing things internally,

then really making sure you're

177

providing what people actually need,

not what you think they might need.

178

So for example, I recently

worked with a client who was...

179

who had asked for a workshop,

and they wanted to include a

180

section on presentation skills

as part of a recruitment process.

181

This is something that came up during

collective consultation, and so I was able

182

to adapt and tailor the workshop to suit.

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I've also had requests in the past for

specific support in specialist areas such

184

as the design and creative space, and

I've been able to arrange that for people.

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So if you're in doing this internally,

you could set up something simple like

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informal lunch and learn sessions,

and you can use the internal talent

187

team if you have a talent team or

working with the HR team yourselves.

188

And this is an opportunity to bring some

really great value to people because we

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often forget what feels obvious to us

is completely unfamiliar to someone who

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hasn't had to look for a job in a while.

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People don't really know how

recruitment works, and there's lots

192

of noise online about some things

which are completely untrue and other

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things which are just made up for

kind of clickbait on social media.

194

So people don't know how

applicant tracking systems work.

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People don't understand how AI

fits into a recruitment process.

196

They don't really get that recruitment

might be very different to how it was when

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they were previously looking for a role.

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There's the kind of one-page CV advice

conflicting with the two-page CV advice

199

And maybe when they last applied for

a role, it wasn't about tailoring your

200

applications and CVs, you just kind of had

one and you sent it off to lots of people.

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So when people un- don't understand

something, then particularly when

202

there's a lot of ghosting within the

recruitment process at the moment,

203

there's a lot of people putting time

and effort into applications and then

204

hearing nothing, then they can assume

that it's a kind of a personal thing.

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Maybe they're not good enough.

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Maybe, you know, that's it,

they'll never find another job.

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So I think bringing some reality to

how the recruitment process works

208

is a really useful thing that the HR

team can do for people, um, just to

209

prepare them and to bring them up to

date with best practice, et cetera.

210

And I think it's also great to be

realistic about this with people

211

from the start so they're not

building up false hope about what

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that landscape might look like.

213

Now, practical support is super

helpful and so some of those things

214

that I've just described really

focus on things that are practical.

215

And bringing in an outplacement provider,

they can do this, that's their specialism,

216

that's what they do, or you can ask,

uh, to have individual support if that's

217

more appropriate or if you're only

running, um, a small reorganization.

218

But it's about helping people to build

their confidence at what can be a

219

difficult time with a lot of uncertainty.

220

Another area I think organizations

sometimes underestimate is the

221

financial fear that redundancy creates.

222

So I've worked with, you know, what on

the surface of it are highly capable,

223

senior or financially stable employees.

224

They can still experience huge

anxiety when the uncertainty about

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their regular income appears.

226

And often people won't openly admit

that they're worried about these sorts

227

of things 'cause there can be a huge

amount of shame attached to redundancy.

228

So they'll talk about things like

updating their CV or applying for jobs,

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but underneath all of that, there might

be a panic about mortgage payments,

230

childcare costs, their pensions, or

maybe even just how long their savings

231

are realistically gonna last them.

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So practical financial wellbeing support

can make a huge difference, not just

233

kind of a general wellbeing message,

but it's the practical guidance.

234

And I'll put a link in the show notes to

a really great session that I had with

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money expert Abi Birch, who's got some

super useful and practical tips on how

236

to signpost and support people at risk

without treading over those boundaries.

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Because this isn't about you as a HR

professional or as a line manager digging

238

into someone's finances and offering

them personal advice and information.

239

It's about having the opportunity to

signpost them to those people who can.

240

But you could include sessions from a

specialist around budgeting, bring in

241

your pension provider, for example,

explaining how redundancy pay and tax

242

implications work, and then signposting

to debt, mortgage advice support, or

243

simply just helping people understand

what financial resources and potential

244

benefits that could be available to them.

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Because when people are emotionally

overwhelmed, then that kind of financial

246

uncertainty just really increases.

247

And of course, there's the emotional

impact of redundancy, which I talk

248

about a lot on the podcast, and I've

coached senior leaders who suddenly

249

feel completely lost after redundancy

because work was a huge part of their

250

identity, a huge part of their life,

and that emotional side of redundancy

251

is something that organizations might

unintentionally overlook because

252

they're really focused on the process.

253

But redundancy for anyone, no matter how

senior you are, is emotional, even when

254

people expect it, because it's still

attached to way more than an income.

255

It's still attached to identity and

self-esteem and how people show up

256

in the world and their place in the

world and their sense of purpose.

257

And even when maybe they dislike their

job or they got a good package, those

258

emotions can still come out, maybe not

straight away, but they will come out

259

because there's the grief, the loss of

routine, and sometimes even the shame of

260

redundancy, no matter how it's come about.

261

So there's a lot of unpacking there

to do, and I think that's one of

262

the benefits of career coaching

as part of outplacement support.

263

And so when redundancy can feel

like it's out of control for people,

264

then regaining a sense of control is

something that's in your gift that you

265

can do during the consultation process.

266

So often res- decisions are

happening behind closed doors, maybe

267

timelines might feel a bit uncertain.

268

People might be having incomplete

information because decisions haven't

269

been finally made, and so this can all

compound the feelings of confidence

270

and powerlessness So I think if you

can actively look for ways to help

271

people regain that sense of control,

and that might mean maybe allowing

272

flexibility for interviews so everyone's

entitled to reasonable time off

273

if they're at risk of redundancy.

274

So being flexible as much

as you can about that.

275

It might mean encouraging managers to

protect some time during the week to

276

support people with looking at their CVs

or helping them to have access to the

277

technology to sign up for job updates and

to do recruitment research, et cetera.

278

It might mean offering different

types of support for different

279

groups of people so that they can

feel that they're being treated

280

according to their particular needs.

281

And simply giving people choices as

well and asking them that question,

282

you know, "What do you need right now?"

283

Because depending on how long the

consultation process is depends on

284

how long you've got to offer people

support, and that support might change

285

at times during, uh, the consultation.

286

'Cause that choice really matters, and

even those small moments of autonomy can

287

really help to restore some confidence and

give people that sense of dignity as well.

288

I've talked a lot about line managers

throughout all of this because they do

289

have to carry very much of the process.

290

Yes, as an HR team, we're there

to support people, but they will

291

be seeing members of their team

go, and that can be really hard.

292

And some of them can be

delivering messages that they

293

fundamentally disagree with.

294

Some of them are quietly

terrified of upsetting people

295

because it's a difficult message.

296

Maybe they've not had to do it before.

297

And some will just emotionally

detach because they don't know how to

298

handle difficult conversations, and

others become a bit kind of overly

299

optimistic because they really can't,

uh, tolerate sort of sitting with that

300

discomfort and that uncomfortableness.

301

So managers need coaching through this

too and real guidance to communicate

302

like a person, not like a robot,

not like someone reading a script.

303

And I'll put a link in the show notes

to a couple of episodes that can help

304

in terms of preparing line managers

for redundancy consultation meetings.

305

Because as I said before, people

don't expect perfection from their

306

managers during this situation, but

they do notice when they're absent.

307

They do notice when they're avoiding them.

308

And they do notice when

they're not showing up.

309

So it's important to maintain that

connection and not just to move

310

into sort of a cold procedural

mode because line managers are

311

afraid of saying the wrong thing.

312

So building in this coaching up front,

checking in with them during the process,

313

and making time for them along the

way just to check in on how they're

314

doing as well is an important part of

supporting people through the process

315

And of course, I talk a lot

about this on the podcast.

316

It's important to remember that how an

organization handles redundancy really

317

shapes the trust during the process,

but also after the process ends.

318

Because the people who

remain are still watching.

319

The future candidates who will be joining

your organization will hear those stories.

320

It's a very small world.

321

And beyond that kind of reputation and

employer brand that is important, it's

322

just about humanity and being a human

and doing the right thing for people.

323

Because most people understand that

businesses will need to restructure.

324

But what most people struggle to

forgive is that feeling of feeling

325

discarded during that process.

326

And so sometimes the support someone

receives during redundancy becomes the

327

thing that helps them rebuild faster.

328

And whilst you won't be able to remove

the pain of redundancy entirely because

329

it's a necessary business decision,

you can change how someone feels about

330

it while they're going through it.

331

And that's what I hope that this podcast

helps people to do, to support people

332

through redundancy with kindness,

with compassion, and with dignity.

333

And so I hope that help- the episode's

been helpful today, and really thank

334

you so much for listening, and I

hope you'll tune in again soon.

335

Thank you so much for listening

to the Redundancy Matters podcast.

336

I hope you found today's episode helpful.

337

It would mean a lot to me if you

would follow rate and review this

338

podcast wherever you listen to your

podcasts, as this helps it reach more

339

people who are managing redundancies.

340

Let me know what you thought,

and if you have ideas for future

341

episodes, I'd love to hear from you.

342

You can find me on LinkedIn, June

Hogan, and get in touch via my

343

website, wildwood coaching.co.uk,

344

where you'll also find more resources

to help you manage redundancies.

345

I hope you'll join me again soon for

the next episode of Redundancy Matters.