I first met Dr Hoby Wedler when he led my wine education team and I through his signature “Tasting in the Dark” experience. We were blindfolded and tasting the wines  (thought) we knew very well, in a whole new light (or lack thereof). 

Dr. Hoby Wedler is a Chemist, Sensory Expert, Motivational Speaker and Entrepreneur who happens to be blind since birth.

After your virtual time with Hoby, you’ll have a new perspective on how to take in the world around you, especially when it comes to things like Seeing Flavor and Tasting Color!

You’ll hear about: 

10:58- The call from Francis Ford Coppola that inspired him to create Tasting in the Dark

13:57- His first chemistry teacher who questioned how chemistry would “work for him”, until he told her “No one can see atoms”…. (Mic drop)

22:55- His thought on the questions around the health benefits of wine

35:26-How he identifies color

44:52- His reaction when I snuck my newly released 2021 Sangiovese into our “blind tasting”

You can find and follow Hoby here!

www.hobywedler.com

All social media platforms: @hobywedler

Email him your burning questions: hoby@hobywedler.com

Get our Sip Spotlight Wines Here!

Wine #1- Hoby's Choice: Chianti Classico

Wine #4 -The trick I played on him with my own wine: 2021 Sollevato Sangiovese

If you'd like to Support the Podcast, you can buy me or Hoby a glass of wine or our producer Kathryn a bourbon) we would be so grateful!

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https://www.sipwithnikki.com/resource

Questions, suggestions and guest requests? nikki@sipwithnikki.com

Seeing Flavor- With Dr. Hoby Wedler

Hoby: Fig, a little bit of cherry compote, berries, a little bit of green apple, but like baked apple. So that's like the fruit section, right? And then you've got the spice section and the, I'm imagining this orchestra in my mind of, of this

Hoby: wine.

Nikki: I'll email it to you. Where to start with this week's guest. I met Dr. Hobie Wedler over a decade ago. I was inspired by him. I was excited to learn more about him and learn with him. And we have been friends and entrepreneurs together. pretty much since then. He has been completely blind since birth and is a chemist and an entrepreneur.

Nikki: He's won numerous awards. I can't list them all here. But some that I find very noteworthy, this gentleman named President Barack Obama recognized Hobie as a champion of change for enhancing employment and educational opportunities for people with disabilities. And he, maybe this is jealousy speaking, but he has acquired two awards that I have aged out of and will never be in the running for 30 under 30 Forbes media.

Nikki: 30 Under 30's annual publication named him as a leader in food and drink. And then he was named 40 Under 40 Tastemakers by the Wine Enthusiast, which is one of my favorites. He is fun, funny, smart, inspiring. He has an amazing palate and sensory when it comes to wine. So I thought it would be really fun for us to taste some wines together in our Sip Spotlight this week.

Nikki: So excited for you to get to know Hobie. Here we go.

Nikki: Well, I'm so glad that

Nikki: you're here today. Thank you. Nikki, thank you so much. You know, we've been fast friends for a long time and uh, just getting to, getting to chat with you on air is so much fun and I'm so proud of everything you've done. You've just, you're, you're, you're Entry from the time that you entered into the industry to where you are now is like, almost gives me chills to think about.

Nikki: It's awesome. Dude, this is

Nikki: not about me. Okay. No, but

Hoby: 12 years in the industry and you're already doing all this stuff. You're doing your podcast, you're doing your own wine. It's like. But that's so cool.

Nikki: So we're two birds of a feather.

Hoby: But we, we, somehow we seem to manage all the obligations.

Nikki: Well, I remember the first time I met you. I think that's a good starting place for our conversation today. So when I was working at Pride, you came and actually taught the staff members, the tasting room, wine educators, Um, in a, uh, in a, you led us in a quote unquote blind tasting.

Nikki: Tasting

Hoby: in the dark, yeah. We did the whole, uh, Sensory experience with different aromas and, you know, really tried to feature the and it's not hard to do this. We featured the pride wines and just let people understand how these how this growing region in where we are in California, Northern California, Napa Sonoma, particularly just shines through the amazing wines.

Nikki: Yeah, I think it was. And then you had glasses in front of us with all of the different wines that the winery makes and reds and whites were interspersed, all mixed in, and everything was at the same temperature. And I remember there was a moment where I picked up our Viognier, which is a very full bodied white wine, very floral and aromatic, and for a quick moment when it hit my lips, I was like, Is this Cabernet Franc?

Nikki: Which is a very floral, aromatic, red wine,

Nikki: Sauvignon Blanqui?

Nikki: It's a word for today. Okay, okay. Let's

Hoby: check it. Okay. Those, those, those Sauvignon Blanqui terms come to mind, and they're in your mind, and when you can't see the wine, that doesn't happen, so you end up kind of second guessing yourself, just like you're saying. For the listeners who like to try a lot of different wines and who are nerdy like us.

Hoby: Excuse me? What did

Hoby: table. We love it. But, but, you know, seriously, try a Viognier, like Nikki mentioned, next to a Cabernet Franc. And you'll notice they're really similar. There's some, and, and by the way, because they were grown in the same area on the same mountaintop, they're going to be even more similar.

Hoby: Gosh, I

Nikki: have so many things I want to talk about with you, so I'm trying to like totally focus. So let's do this. Can you share with our listeners a little bit about just kind of what brought you into the world of wine and what brought you into the world of chemistry with your wine. PhD in chemistry and which came first and how does one help you

Hoby: with the other?

Hoby: So I, I would like smelling wines and going out to vineyards and listening to tractors move earth and smelling, and you know when a tractor digs up a big pile of earth and you just smell that beautiful wet soil, it's just incredible. So I've always loved these sorts of things and then I did go to school at UC Davis and took a couple of wine appreciation classes.

Hoby: One on an intro to winemaking and one on wines of the world. And actually during your undergrad, during undergrad and then while I was a grad student during my first year, one of my electives was, um, really delving into the biochemistry and organic chemistry of wine, which was. Sorry, I just.

Nikki: Okay, now I'm good.

Nikki: Continue.

Hoby: Which was a lot of fun to. To study that, that

Hoby: you did very well in that class.

Hoby: Oh, so

Nikki: well, I took it twice because I didn't pass it the first time. No,

Hoby: but I, you know, for me, it was, it was an experience that really pulled me into wine with family. My partner, Justin's stepfather, actually got us excited about wines. Really nice California wines. He's the one who introduced us to pride.

Hoby: And when Francis Ford Coppola calls and asks if you'll do something, you say yes, and then you hang up the phone and realize, Oh, no, what did I just agree to? But I was able to he really gave me the reins with it and let me innovate.

Nikki: Did you speak to him him actually him?

Hoby: Talk to one of his business partners.

Hoby: Okay, and they were like, hey, this is something we want to do We met him several times later, but it was You

Nikki: talked to his consigliere. I

Hoby: think so. I think that's exactly who she was. And, um, that's hilarious. And, you know, this experience got launched. One thing led to another, and soon the national sales team picked it up.

Hoby: But I met all these amazing people in this industry. And, and that's the thing that I would say so, um, first and foremost about the wine industry. People are amazing. You know, they just, they pull you in, right?

Nikki: Because we're birds of a feather because we're not only a little bit nerdy with how things make us feel when we smell and taste and wondering why, but we just tend to be, um, I don't know, a little more high feeling on the feeling scale.

Nikki: Right? Well, generalizing, but all our

Hoby: artists that happen to be scientists as well. Well, you just

Nikki: said it so much better than I was trying to say it. Say that again.

Hoby: Field, if you will, where we can straddle that intersection that is so fine between art and science. Figuring out what is science versus what is art. Wine is both. You know, I consider winemakers artists who happen to know a little biochemistry. You know, and because it's your craft. You are a winemaker and I can say this to you.

Hoby: Your art form goes into that bottle and is what you taste. Just what your friends and Customers taste when they enjoy your wines, right? So I just got pulled in and attracted to this industry. Tasting in the dark has expanded to. Beer and spirits and oil and vinegar and all sorts of markets and industries around, you know, around the world.

Hoby: Right? You might be able to see a reaction change color. You might be able to see some gases effervesce or being evolved from a reaction flask. But we actually spend huge amounts of money in the chemistry industry, chemical industry, designing eyeballs, designing things that can see and detect light at wavelengths that we cannot see.

Hoby: I did that calculation before coming here just to make this point. So much of chemistry is non visual, and I fell in love with that part of it, and the fact that I can do organic chemistry and Sorry about the word and use that use my mind for what I've had to do ever since I was a toddler for my survival as a blind traveler because I can't see anything I visualize things and, you know, literally the thought of turning one finicky molecule into another is not that different than thinking about how to get from here.

Hoby: And you know, some art forms, we're very subjective with visual, sorry, we're very objective with visual art. You know, you might look at a painting and say, yeah, that's gorgeous. You might look at another one and say, Oh, this is hideous. Why would I hang that on my wall? Right? But the same thing is true with wines.

Hoby: You know, people are so often so subjective about wine because they don't necessarily quite know what they like. So I advise all listeners to drink more wine and be decisive and see what you like and see what you don't like because wine is a tapestry of flavor and color and aroma and texture. And, you know I wanted to teach chemistry.

Hoby: So I'm able to do both things that I've always loved.

Nikki: You, uh, speaking about being a big feeler, you took my breath away about two paragraphs ago with something that you said, and I'm still recovering because it was so beautiful when you said about when you smell wine, it's like the closest thing you can have to looking at a piece of artwork.

Nikki: Am I paraphrasing it?

Hoby: It's like learning to play a musical instrument really well. We really have

Nikki: to drink so much wine I know

Hoby: It's like when you're walking down the grocery aisle Smell the celery, smell the parsley, smell the cilantro, smell the basil, smell the Asian pears, smell the pears, smell the blackberries. So when we can taste a wine and we say, hey Nicky, do you taste the lemon in here?

Hoby: So, I encourage anyone who wants to get more into wine, just as a consumer or as a winemaker, build that aromatic vocabulary so you can speak about the flavors and textures and aromas of wine. Once you do that for wine, you can do it for

Nikki: anything. It's um, I love when you talk about this topic because I have.

Nikki: I've tried to explain it to people over the years when you say smell everything, smell the flowers, smell the produce, right? I call it developing that card catalog in your brain because you're not going to be able to say, Oh, this wine has hints of current. If you can't identify and remember what a current smells like.

Hoby: And you know, it's so funny because we do that with color.

Hoby: You have the card catalog in your mind of color when you're a child, right? I tested this with my nephew who's six years old. I held a red pen up in front of him and I said, Hey, Rito, what color is this? And he said, Uncle Hobie, that's a silly question. It's a red pen. But then I blended up some peach in a cup and I didn't let him see it.

Hoby: And I said, what does that smell like? He said, I don't know. Sweet? And I did that to prove that we need to take some time to hone those card catalogs for a sense that we don't often train enough.

Nikki: That's, that's, ah, I love it. And

Hoby: I have to give a shout out to all of the European Union. They just focus so much, we do a lot in Italy, I know you're from Italy originally, your family's from Italy originally.

Nikki: more time there, I think, in the last

Hoby: three years. I don't know, I don't know. But, but I'm just saying that there's like, Food and beverage are so important there in Europe.

Hoby: And I just, I want so badly for people in this country to realize the importance of taking time to smell things. When you're driving to work and you're feeling stressed, open the window and smell the air. I don't care whether it's raining or whether it's blazing hot outside. Get that, smelling things will relax you.

Hoby: Mmm. It will relax you. Why do

Nikki: you think that is?

Hoby: I love that. And by the way, I always like, maybe I drink more wine than I should, but for me, It doesn't matter what night of the week it is, but coming home after a long, stressful day, even if I have been remembering to smell my surroundings and smell the air, having a glass of wine while I cook is just therapeutic.

Nikki: Oh, I'm right there with you.

Hoby: Goes right to the top of my cutting board. You know, it just hangs there and And, and not drinking to drink, but drinking to smell and taste and analyze the wine and think about it and almost take it as a challenge. It's just

Nikki: fun. It is. And I agree. It's wine is a part of my cooking ritual as well.

Nikki: Um, and that's why I was like, yeah, I'm not even going to think about the dry January. Sorry, folks, because it's such a part of the cooking ritual itself. Right. So we're on the same page with that.

Hoby: Millennials and Gen Zers are looking at what everybody else is doing, trending on, on social media. So, now a lot of them are like not drinking anything and doing cold plunges into icy ponds. And I'm like, wait a minute, I can't say that alcohol is healthy, but let me tell you about the complex organic chemistry that takes place in a bottle of wine, that's present in a bottle of wine.

Hoby: Wines have

Nikki: these amazing Go ahead, make chemistry sexy.

Hoby: Go. Wines have Thank you for that opportunity. I always love when I can make chemistry sexy. Wines have these compounds in them called flavonoids. And flavonoids are flavorizing molecules. One of the most common ones is resveratrol. And if you look it up It is so incredibly

Nikki: Red wine is used in skin care products. And yeah, yep.

Hoby: And red wines have more of it than any other food or drink that we'd, that we'd necessarily eat. Well, that's why I

Nikki: look the way I do. Right, Hobie? I mean, look at me.

Hoby: Look at, you don't look a day over 20. Okay. Um, the other, the other thing that, that really is amazingly healthy is a class of compounds.

Hoby: Compounds called catechins, and particularly epicatechin. No, but catechins, and in particular, epicatechin is this amazing class of antioxidant that is also in the class of flavonoids that is like a miracle drug. Anti diabetic, blood pressure lowering, heart health, all this stuff. And you, you get it by drinking red wine.

Nikki: epicatechin Is glom an official chemistry word?

Nikki: Oh,

Hoby: totally. Okay. We glom all the time. Uh, when I wrote my, uh, when I wrote my, my doctoral thesis, GLOM was, I probably appeared more times than it should. G L A M?

Nikki: G L O M. G L O

Hoby: M. GLOM. GLOM together. GLAM. GLAM. GLOM. GLOM. But when these, when these things, GLOM. When these, If you're from New Jersey, GLOM. GLOM.

Hoby: When these things GLOM onto alcohol, ethanol molecules, they come into your cell and then often the ethanol goes out and the little goodness stays in your cell. So the other really good compounds in wine are polyphenols, biphenols, um, antioxidants in general. Wine is the best antioxidant for you, um, just in so many ways.

Hoby: And we're talking about red wine. White wines also have some good chemistry too.

Hoby: about to, we're about to taste mostly reds. What I'm trying to say is that a little bit of wine is not bad for you.

Hoby: Okay.

Nikki: Well, let's have some. That's a perfect, perfect point to move into our sip spotlight.

Nikki: So, um, this is the first time in so many, many, many episodes of Sip with Nikki, 11, um, that we are having a quadruple Sip Spotlight. So when you and I were prepping, we, we had a plan, you and I, that we would each bring one wine to the table that we would cover and quote, blind taste each other on. So we don't know what it is.

Nikki: And we were each supposed to bring a wine. And I. Couldn't decide, so I picked two, and when you showed up today, you had two wines as well.

Hoby: We ended up with four instead of two. We're

Hoby: here. And for me, just really quickly, Nikki, for me what's so special about tasting wine with someone like you is that, you know, it's not about tasting and guessing, and the tasting in the dark event that we do is not at all about guessing or anything like that.

Hoby: The blindfold is really, and we're not blindfolded here or anything, the blindfold in that, no, no, no, no, no, in that tasting, the blindfold is just meant to focus your attention a little bit differently than it's normally focused. But here, Nikki and I are just really into flavors and aromas and regions and this sort of thing.

Hoby: So we're going to talk about where these, like, what these wines taste like and just have a casual, but I'm sure nerdy discussion about, um, Wine. Thank you,

Nikki: Justin. Justin is here on the sidelines. Hey, Justin. Pouring this beautiful wine. Okay. And so, okay, so here's a confession. So immediately, I want to talk about the color of this wine.

Nikki: Let's do

Hoby: it. And if you can explain the color to me, that would be really fun.

Hoby: experience? You're sight. We're both in our normal environment. You're sighted. I'm not. So feel free to explain the color. Okay. But first, cheers, friend.

Hoby: Cheers.

Nikki: So, I am just looking at it right now and the first thing I noticed when it was hitting the glass, it is not purple. It has a very garnet, ruby, almost brick ish color which immediately leads me to believe it might have a little bit of age on it because of the saturation of color and also because the Edges of the wine that go to the glass feather out and look a little watery.

Nikki: And I know that's not water because I know the chemistry of wine, but that is

Hoby: these glasses were dry by the way. Yes, yes,

Nikki: Mm hmm. Am I on the right track? Yes,

Hoby: and it might be from a little bit of a different region than you might be thinking right now. Okay, so. So let's smell. Okay. So when I smell that wine, it is really interesting. The first thing that comes to mind is honey.

Nikki: And I got like licorice. Yeah. Or like

Hoby: star anise.

Hoby: Oh my gosh. I totally see what you mean. Star anise. And then for me, there's like some really nice, uh, blackberry, like ripe blackberry. And for me, when I cover the glass with one hand and swirl, this wine pops out with just amazing, amazing. Uh, floral aromas. So we're going to hold our hand on

Nikki: top for just a second and smell.

Hoby: like. And it almost to me is a little bit herbaceous but I, I, I also get a little bit of um, Daphne, you know the flower that.

Nikki: Who's she? What does she smell like?

Nikki: Is that an ex girlfriend? Daphne

Hoby: Oh, but it really is if you haven't smelled the flower daphne before you should Find it because

Nikki: that is not in my card catalog. I can't recall

Hoby: Daphne i'm gonna find a daphne flower and bring it to you because it blooms in romantic late february early march And it has this amazing like citrus slash herbal character that I love.

Hoby: My mouth

Nikki: is watering to taste this wine. I haven't tasted it yet. I've just been admiring it and the beauty of the subtlety of the color and those notes.

Hoby: Some wines as they age You have a kind of tobacco

Nikki: Like when you pick up an unlit cigar in the cigar shop and hold it like a mustache under your nose. Yes. I love that and I absolutely got that on this coupled with a really nice pucker of acidity that made me squinch my mouth a little bit but in a yummy yummy way and then it made my mouth water.

Hoby: Just because we're nerds, I picked up something that really really strikes me in this wine.

Hoby: It's that tobacco, yes, but it's also like old leather. Yes. So what I get reminded of here is like walking through an old university library. Kind of that old, old book smell. You would get that. A little dusty. But then You know, what library doesn't have a really nice cigar just hanging out in the stacks?

Hoby: You'll get

Nikki: booted, expelled from that library smoking a cigar

Nikki: is. This wine is Stunning. It is, there's lots of layers in the glass. Um, I want to sit on my leather recliner on this rainy Saturday with this and just let it tell me its story for the next hour

Hoby: and a half.

Hoby: With your cuddly White Great Pyrenees right

Nikki: next to you. Yeah, it's stunning.

Hoby: That's fun, I, I just, it's unique and it's something I really wanted to, wanted to share with you. What do you think, if I were to ask you, what country is this from? Wow. Now think about our common interest.

Nikki: I, I mean, I'm going to say Italy.

Nikki: That is correct. That is correct. But I can't say that there was anything glaring in the, I'm not good enough where I'm guessing that because of something I smelled or tasted, I'm kind of guessing that because I know you and you know me.

Hoby: Yeah. So it's kind of got that, it might not actually be quite as old as we think. This is actually a Chianti Classico. Nice. From Italy. And, and considering our, our common interest, I thought it would be really fun to share this.

Nikki: Basilica Silaccio, is that how you

Hoby: say it? So this is, I believe this is coming from.

Hoby: Basilikata? And what year is it?

Nikki: Twenty, I had to put on my new progressive lenses to

Hoby: read it. That's one thing, as I get older that I'm excited I'll never have to deal with. Uh, oh

Nikki: shit.

Hoby: Obi! I gotta give the snark two. Oh

Hoby: So not quite that old, you know, 11 years old. But I said

Hoby: And of course, this is from Chianti.

Nikki: Yeah, that's going to be delicious with our, um, wood fire pizza night that we're doing when this is over. I think that's going to be wonderful. Um, okay, should we do your second wine next? Let's do it. Okay.

Nikki: Already, this wine has, um, a lot deeper color.

Hoby: And really for this wine in particular, but every time I pour a new glass of wine in a glass that I've just sipped out of, I like to really roll the glass around to coat the inside with. Juiciness as possible. Smells like California, does

Nikki: it not? It does. It's just some fruit, some like fruity preserves just jumped out of the glass into my nose in a beautiful way.

Hoby: color here, maybe you can describe that to us.

Nikki: Um, it is definitely has more of a purple hue than the last wine which was more bricky, garnet, reddy. This has undertones of purple to it, which, and not so feathered from the outside to the inside.

Nikki: So, that tells me This is not as old as the other one. This wine has high tannin. It is percolating on my tongue. Oh, yes. With dryness and astringency. I

Hoby: feel like I can see purple when I taste that. I don't know.

Nikki: Dude, stop rocking my world with statements like that, okay?

Hoby: I don't know what purple looks like, but we were walking the other day, and I pulled a leaf off of a bush, and I said, Justin.

Hoby: This smells like what green should be and it's like this fresh cut grassy like earthy smell and he said, Oh, I can see that. So,

Hoby: Yeah. And, and, and flavor because I've never. I've never seen color, I've just had to listen to people and what they say looks a certain way.

Hoby: I tend to make my own funny associations, some of which I'm sure are very far from correct.

Nikki: Well, like my dog is white like snow, which is actually very correct. This is fun, but so different than

Hoby: what we just had. It's so different, and it is very different in the grape varietal as well. And it's from

Nikki: California.

Nikki: Totally. Almost Zinfandel like, with the ripe fruit leaving.

Hoby: Take a sip of this wine. And breathe some air through and really oxidize those canons.

Hoby: This is, you feel the astringency grow, right? And this

Hoby: too. The other thing that I, I love about that little trick of oxidizing the tannins and feeling the astringency pop out is it shows you on a very.

Hoby: Granular level, why it's important to open red wines a little bit before you drink them and let them oxidize themselves to bloom those tannins

Nikki: out. Now, here's my chemistry question. Yeah. Sorry, just took a piece of bread to cleanse my palate. That's what you do. decant or aerate a wine, my understanding of the chemistry of what's happening is that the tannins themselves aren't actually diminishing, but the other elements of the wine are coming forward which changes the perception of the tannin.

Nikki: Yes,

Hoby: and it makes, it really takes it, you nailed it. What did I say? I know a little. Artists and biochemists and artists.

Nikki: I

Hoby: know a little. You know your stuff. Okay. Yeah. So, I want you to take, I know you just clenched your palate, I'm sorry, but I want you to take one more sip of the wine. Okay. Because that's all I have left.

Hoby: And I want you to. Swish it around your mouth like mouthwash.

Nikki: He's very bossy, you guys,

Nikki: I literally just chewed my wine.

Hoby: And, it's crazy, right?

Hoby: Because the wine It changes

Nikki: the texture of the wine, like now I have these beautiful tannins. And I like tannin in wine. I have these beautiful tannins. On my teeth, and I love it, but a piece of cheese would neutralize the heck out of that in a good way.

Hoby: Totally, and I also feel like when we chew on our wine, we're showing our palate different aspects of the wine that we wouldn't necessarily be seeing, for lack of a better word, because we're, we don't normally chew on liquids.

Nikki: Yeah, no, I love to, I love to chew my wine. So you're gonna stop keeping me in suspense and tell

Hoby: And I wanted you to taste this because it's a really fun, it's their wine. It's made from the Rubicon, the Englebrook Estate in Rutherford, in the Napa Valley. Yep, and he, this is the, He influences all the winemaking process, but this is the one where he really gets his hands dirty and, and helps make

Nikki: it.

Nikki: Oh my goodness, homie. Thank you for sharing this. Sorry guys, no link in the show notes to get this wine. Sorry, this

Hoby: does not sell, but this will also be good later. You'll have

Nikki: to go knock on Francis door and ask him if he'll share the family wine with you. Amen. That is a special treat. so much. And it's Cabernet Sauvignon.

Nikki: Yes. Yeah. It's California cab.

Nikki: Heck yeah. I love you so much, friend. Thank

Hoby: you. This is what I was so excited about doing this. Okay, I am I am like so excited to try your first wine.

Nikki: Okay, so you guys I just poured my first of two wines and I made sure that it was covered up with a bag So he couldn't see the label. You know, I like to cheat.

Nikki: Cheater. Big cheater sin.

Hoby: So what's the color on this?

Nikki: It is more subtle in its color, more of that purple hue than the brickish red. Okay. Color's not as concentrated as either of the last two wines that we had. So it's

Hoby: a little bit more garnet, if you will? Yeah.

Nikki: Yeah, it's kind of in the middle of the last two.

Nikki: It's not as purple as the Coppola. It's not as brickish as the aged Chianti. got it, got it. It's kind of

Nikki: Yep, not a huge differential in the middle to the outside, that rim variation as we call it.

Nikki: I'm gonna say cheers

Hoby: on your first wine. Cheers! Heck yeah! I never, I never miss an opportunity to clink. I'm gonna smell this. Okay, wow.

Nikki: See, you're saying wow, and for me, and maybe it's just because I know what it is, It doesn't, it's not leaping out of the glass with punching me like the last two did. It's just a little more subtle on the nose.

Nikki: This is,

Hoby: this is very fruit forward. But it's got a lot of really neat, um, sort of viney character. Sort of a, a, like a, a bit of a leafy character on the nose. Which I really like. A little bit of green pepper. Which is also really nice. Which is making me think, this is, I know this is very early. But it's making me think it has some Cap Franc in it.

Hoby: this label. I love Vivino That is really nice You know what? I like about this Nikki is that the acid level is a little bit higher.

Hoby: It's a little bit acidic, so it really crisps the palate. Not horribly tannic.

Nikki: Nope, nope, not horribly tannic, so that would guide us to, uh, guess certain grapes, and maybe eliminate

Hoby: others. So I would probably eliminate what I call the Bordeaux Reds. I'd probably eliminate Cabernet Sauvignon, Cab Franc Merlot.

Nikki: This wine has a funny finish on my mouth. It does. 25 30 seconds that I had a, since I had a sip and it's still, it's hanging out, but I don't know if I love what is

Hoby: hanging out. What I taste are some wood tannins, a slight bitter note. I'm gonna guess this to be an Italian, a grape that originates from Italy.

Nikki: Don't second guess your instinct, sir.

Hoby: I, I really, so let me explain what I'm thinking. It's, it's got a lightness like an Italian grape, and I can tell it's probably one of the, one of the many amazing Italian grapes, but it has this interesting depth that I don't feel like the Italian climate offers.

Hoby: So it's like It's an Italian, I think it's an Italian grape grown in California, if I had to guess.

Nikki: It is an Italian grape, but it's from Italy. This is a Sangiovese from Puglia. Really? It is not from Chianti, Tuscany, Chianti Classico. And this wine was 4. 99 in Trader Joe's today. I love it. I freaking love it.

Nikki: That is awesome. 4.

Hoby: 99. It does not drink like a 4. 99 I did

Nikki: But it is a Sangiovese grape from

Hoby: Italy. And what I love about this too is that, um, Puglia has such a great wine growing climate that about, I think it's about 70 percent of the Italian wines that we see in the United States are actually grown in Puglia.

Nikki: You've spent a lot of time there recently, have you not?

Hoby: We're starting a little, uh, company with some really amazing Italian partners in the Northern region of Italy called Bolzano in South Tyrol. Um, All around emotional intelligence and product design and yeah, it's fun. So

Nikki: here's our fourth wine of our tasting.

Hoby: Fourth and

Nikki: final. Okay, it's in front of you, sir.

Nikki: Thank you, my

Nikki: Darker than the one we just had. Okay. Um, medium concentration of color. It appears to be a younger wine because I'm not seeing a lot of the feathering of color on the edges So that leads me to believe I mean, I know what this wine is But that's if I didn't know I would use that to guide me to say that this is probably a wine That's only in the last

Hoby: five years.

Hoby: Sure, and I'm just gonna smell it here Wow the aroma Definitely a younger wine because the aroma is really bright. I get a lot of, um, like cherry compote. Like if you took cherries and baked them with some sugar and some vanilla. It's really nice there. Oak notes are coming out, a lot of vanilla. Purple,

Nikki: little purple flowers, like violets or something like that.

Nikki: Yeah,

Nikki: note. It's, and the more I swirl this wine, it's, I'm gonna do your, your hand over the top of the glass while I swirl. I'm gonna do

Hoby: it too. I feel like this is opening up a lot as it sits in the glass.

Nikki: I agree, it's changed just from when I smelled it a minute ago, which is kind of fun.

Hoby: Yeah, this is really cool. And there's a little bit of we didn't? Let's do it, friend. What I get here, too, is like almost a very light, like, cinnamon smell, cinnamon brown sugar. Kind of a cool, like, apple y note. Mm. Apple like. Like, baked apple. Like, apple that you might find in an apple crisp or

Nikki: something. Mm, like crumble.

Nikki: Mm

Hoby: hmm. Mm. Wow. That is complex.

Nikki: What does that mean for people that don't know what that means and

Hoby: Like pulls. Blooming

Nikki: juiciness. Catherine, this is our first merchandise apparel item that we're going to sell on the podcast. Note that please in your notebook.

Hoby: But it's, but it's got this, like it pulls from your mouth. It's almost, it's an astringency caused by the tannins, but it's very, what I would call extracted.

Hoby: So there's so much flavor. You know, the difference between like a. Really kind of mellow chocolate cake that doesn't have that much cacao in it. We're just like, oh my gosh This is such a decadent like a tort. Yeah, this is like flourless. Oh Right, but it's not i'm not trying to imply to listeners that this tastes like chocolate.

Nikki: of. Excuse me? I feel like this is going into another podcast with another rating on it.

Hoby: The three most complicated fluids that we know of are blood, red wine, and olive oil. And this to me, like, when I, when I say I can Sea flavor. Like, when I taste this, this is, this has a lot going on. This is a symphony with a lot of instruments. You've got the fruit in one section, all the different, you know, a little bit of grapefruit, a little bit of, um, fig, a little bit of cherry compote, berries, a little bit of green apple, but like baked apples.

Nikki: Oh that makes my heart happy just thinking about those happy vines.

Nikki: Well Are you ready for me to tell you what it is any final thoughts on this wine before we

Hoby: unveil it? But this wine is

Nikki: wait, what was the t shirt blooming? What was the first?

Hoby: Blooming juiciness, I think. Blooming

Nikki: juiciness. I drank it all, so I need more in my glass. I'm gonna put a little more in your glass, sir.

Nikki: Okay, thank you, friend. Alright, what do you think this is?

Nikki: here. It is Sonoma or Napa. You are correct.

Hoby: And the reason I think it's Napa, if I'm right about the Cabernet Sauvignon, is that, and I'm not saying

Nikki: It's not Cab. Redirect. Oh. It's not Cabernet. I'm taking the bag off, so Justin can see what this is. Yes.

Hoby: Yes. No, I'm, I'm just kidding. This is also Sangiovese, isn't it?

Nikki: Why ever would you guess that?

Hoby: Cause it's got that dry creek fruit smell that I love so much.

Nikki: But it was masking as a cab. A

Hoby: little bit.

Hoby: Hobie! Is this your

Hoby: Oh my god, bravo. I'm raising my glass in celebration. That you helped to

Nikki: get. In the bottle, with the label, to the market, branding, all

Hoby: of it, thanks to you.

Nikki: is. I thought you were going to guess that that's what I was going to put in there. That's why I had to throw the Trader Joe's wine in there to like,

Hoby: Well I feel very special and honored. No, this is really, Nikki, this is a beautiful glass.

Nikki: Thank you. I'm so excited for you to try this because you have been so close to the project. Thank you. And you've tasted the 19, our first vintage, and you've tasted the 20, which you sent me. Hashtag chicken porn pictures the other day of you ingesting with some buttermilk roasted chicken that I now need to try, but you had not had this one, which was just

Hoby: bottled in November.

Hoby: Oh my goodness. And you know, one of my favorite things to do with a wine is I like to go outside and. Um, because the outside air does something crazy special to wine, so as soon as we're done here, I'm going to take my glass outside and I'm going to sniff and taste the wine.

Nikki: Now, if it's pouring rain out, how does that change that experience?

Nikki: That's the other t shirt right there. This? Um, because post podcast recording, you guys are sticking around and we're doing pizza night. I thought, well, we're going to open one of these to have with our beautiful, beautiful Dan Richer episode one inspired sourdough.

Hoby: starter pizza. Oh my goodness. You broke out Gladys.

Nikki: Gladys. She's in the house. Gladys. You guys is the name of our sourdough starter. And the reason we call her that I think I've told you this because she used to be in a glad wear container.

Hoby: She smells good.

Nikki: Daphne Gladys. You and all these old ladies, Toby.

Nikki: I didn't know this about you. Um, are you ready for our final segment, which is listener questions? I can't wait. Here we go. Woo. Listener questions.

Hoby: world. I live as a blind person in a sighted world, things take me a lot longer, um, I have to be more patient.

Hoby: And what I've learned is that absolutely anything is doable with the right attitude, with a positive attitude and a mindset that just lets you do whatever it is you want. Because the only thing in the way of you and your wildest dreams is your brain. And if you can let your brain empower those dreams.

Hoby: You're going to rock it. And I, I work on this every day. I'm not perfect. And I would just say, let your brain be your best friend, not your worst enemy.

Nikki: What assumptions do you notice sighted people making about flavor based on visual information and what technique you teach them to get past that bias?

Hoby: People look at things and they know what they think it's going to be and even if it's nowhere near what they think it should be, they're going to think it should be that way and they're gonna taste it and think that their, their first impression is going to dominate is what I've found.

Hoby: Just like when you might look at someone and immediately judge them. You know, if you look at someone that's in ratty clothes in the subway station, you're gonna think they might be not someone you want to talk to when they might be one of the greatest people of all time. Um, so I just, I like to say you can't judge a book by its cover.

Hoby: And the way that I get around this With folks is that if I don't let people look at things before they taste them, they can't make those automatic assumptions

Nikki: well, there you have it

Hoby: You, whoever you are, with whatever you do, are amazing at what you do. Remember that. You're amazing. You do good work. Every one of our listeners here. You also are enough. As long as you deliver your personal best, that's enough. Nobody's alone in this world. We've got each other. Remember that. Your listeners can reach out to me anytime they want.

Hoby: Please put my email in the show notes. I'm

Nikki: going to put your email, your website, bio, your TED talk, all the things will be in the show notes. You're so sweet. I love you so much. I love you, Nikki. What a beautiful note to end on. This is great. Cheers. Cheers, friend. And for all your help with Solovato. Oh,

Hoby: it's been amazing and we're, the best is yet to

Nikki: come.

Nikki: If that is not the most wonderful, just virtual hug, kick in the pants, motivation and inspiration to think about the world that we walk in every day differently, then I don't know what else to give you. What a special experience. I hope that you have taken away some new ideas about just how to use your senses.

Nikki: It's also very amazing and inspirational. I hope that you are enjoying this. Always remember, please like and rate this podcast. It helps Catherine and I to continue doing what we're doing and get the word out so more people can listen and be just as inspired as you are today. If you would take a moment on Apple podcast to type a short couple sentence rating about what you think that would be hugely appreciated.

Nikki: Sip with Nikki is hosted by Nikki Lamberti, production and sound mixing by Katherine Bryan. You can always send your listener questions to Nikki. at sipwithnicki. com or find us on the Sip with Nicki Facebook page or visit us on Instagram at Nicki Lamberti. Thanks for listening. Until next time, sip well everyone.

Nikki: This is Sip with Nicki, a production of Take 10 Studios.