In this engaging discussion, Barry Kallmeyer, a seasoned technology director, shares his insights on the evolution of the CIO role in independent schools. He delves into the importance of strategic planning, the value of data-driven decision-making, and the critical aspects of leadership, such as succession planning and fostering a collaborative community.

Resources

• Hathaway Brown School
• Zork (playable), text-based adventure game 
• Cleveland Browns, struggling American football team
• Philadelphia Eagles, Super Bowl LIX champions known for especially obnoxious fans
• Owl & Hybrid Learning, website built during COVID & shared with the community; highlighted by OWL directly
• Productivity Tools for 2025: Project Management with Asana and Slack, ATLIS webinar
• Scribe, tool to capture how-to content
• IT Glue, IT documentation software
• Technology Leaders in Independent Schools (TLIS) certification, credential demonstrating that a person has the skills and experience to effectively perform the role
• TLIS Prep Program
• TLIS Study Guide
• ATLIS 360 Self-Study Guide, Companion Manual, and Rubric, tools providing a plan to evaluate how your school utilizes technology and the effects it has on the school
• Max Action Arena, VR zombie game at Grand Sierra Resort in Reno, NV
• Center for Institutional Research of Independent Schools (CIRIS), provides resources and support for institutional research practitioners
• Mission & Data, integrated consulting, custom data products, and executive coaching services

Phil, welcome to Talking Technology with ATLIS,

the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for

technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.

We'll hear stories from technology directors and other

special guests from the Independent School community,

and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.

And now please welcome your host, Kristina Lewellen,

Hello, and welcome back to talking

technology with Atlas. I'm Kristina Lewellen, the President

and CEO of the Association of Technology Leaders in

Independent Schools.

And I am Bill Stites, Director of Technology

at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New Jersey, and

I'm Hiram Cuevas, Director of Information Systems

and Academic Technology at St Christopher school in Richmond,

Virginia.

So here we go, and I'm almost afraid to

greet you, because I know what Bill Stites is going to say, so

just go ahead. Go.

Birds. Go birds.

Break out the green

we are recording right after the Super

Bowl.

It's a good thing there's been a day because I got

it all out of me yesterday, it was like a dress down day here

at school, so I was, like, all decked out. I can honestly say I

wasn't the most productive person in the world yesterday,

because there may have been a lot of highlight watching and

ESPN listening throughout the day. I'm neither going to

confirm nor deny that, but let's just say I probably owe the

school a little bit of time after yesterday.

Well, I started a tally when we got on

our call today here to start the pod, and I believe we're up to

about 12. Go birds.

Go. Birds. 13.

There you go. Well, I

am happy for you. It was a well earned

victory, and I have so many friends who are Philly fans, and

so I gotta say, Go, birds, go birds.

1415, it's a call and response. If you say it, I

have to respond. That's how it works. Yeah.

That happens with my kid who goes to JMU? You

know, they yell at each other. I had a friend in town over the

holidays, and she got something on her hoodie, and so she

borrowed my husband's J MU hoodie, and I warned her,

because we were going downtown and having some beverages. And I

said, If you wear that hoodie downtown, someone is gonna say,

Go Dukes. And sure enough, we were literally in the parking

garage, not even barely out of the car, and somebody gave her a

big go, dukes, and she at least knew how to respond. So I

understand the Colin response. Indeed, we are welcoming to the

pod today. Barry cow Meyer, Barry, I'm a little afraid,

because I know how this is going to go, but I also love and adore

you and everything that you contribute in our community. So

I will try to keep the guys under control, but I make no

promises. It's

going to be difficult for sure. You know

what you're in for? I do. I'm looking forward

to it. Well, Barry, we are glad to have you

here on the pod. Thank you for joining us. You are calling in

from Ohio. Tell everybody a little bit about your job and

who you work for and all that fun stuff.

Before I do that, I just need to say, Go

browns. Being a Cleveland fan, we were obviously far away from

hitting Super Bowl, but someday, so I've been working at Hathaway

Brown School for the past 28 years. It's been really an

amazing journey. I think about all the changes in my role and

the things I've seen and been a part of here at this school,

it's just been an amazing journey. I mean, from truly the

beginning of technology in schools, I was part of that

transition, and just watching that happen and being a part of

it, it's been an honor for me. So did

you start as a teacher? Like, what's your

background, and how did you come to be at the school?

So, you know, it's interesting. I think back

to how in the world did I end up here? And I think it started

when I was about 10 years old. And I have an older brother a

couple years older. My parents bought us an apple two plus

computer. So if you remember those computers, the old

greenish screen, we would run programs from a cassette tape.

It was just so basic. But they were future thinking, like,

let's get the boys this computer. And so I grew up those

years after in the house with my brother, just playing with his

computer, exploring, learning basic playing. I remember there

was this game called short, which was a text based game. You

could basically type two words at a time. And so that kind of

led to my interest in tech. And then when I was a kid, for three

years, I went to summer camp, and I worked there for 11

summers in northern Wisconsin, and so I worked there when I was

the first year, I think I was 17, up until I was 27 and so I

knew I love working with kids. I'm like, How can I do the tech?

And they connected the camp. And so I found a teaching job at a

public school. School, and two years later, my sister in law

saw this ad in the paper for a computer teacher at Hathaway

Brown School. I still have the clipping from the newspaper of

that job, and that's been in my journey since.

So now, what is your title and what are you

responsible for at the school? Because I've certainly come to

understand that different directors of technology job

descriptions just encompass so many different things. So what

is your day like and what are you responsible for? Yeah.

So my title is Chief Information Officer. And

like many technology directors, I wear a lot of different hats,

and it does look, I think, a little different when we talk to

other tech directors. We have a lot of different roles. So my

day to day is really varied. I'm fortunate to still have a role

in the classroom. You know, I think back to why I went into

working in schools, is I love working with students, and so I

still teach a couple of grade levels computer science courses.

But then my day can be anything from, you know, we just had a

meeting this morning talking about thoughts for our website,

like, how do you get a font? What does that look like? How do

you license it? How do you deploy it to talking about

security cameras, I've been filling in to help make badges

because we've had a change in personnel who was doing that.

Some of it is strategic planning, thinking ahead, and

some is just stepping in for the moment when there's a fire to

put out, they generally come to the IT department. So

Barry, I got a quick question for you, and this

is one I'm always curious about. I've gotten into some

conversations around how we define different things. You

know, I was talking recently about how we define

entrepreneurship here at the school, and in particular when

it comes to how we define our titles. I've had the title of

director of technology for a very long time, and you've got

the title of CIO. I can imagine you didn't come in with that

title. When did your title change to that and what was the

evolution behind that change, because I think you see

different titles now at a lot of different schools, and I'm

curious about how yours progress to become just that.

That's a great question, because we've really

gone through some transitions over the past probably 1415,

years related to the structure of the department and the title.

So, you know, obviously I initially started out as a

teacher, and then I stepped into a role that was called the

Director of Academic Technology. And at the time when I stepped

into that role, they shifted that role to directly going to

the head of school. So the head of school and I would meet, we

would have those conversations. But paired with that, there was

also a director of network technology. And so that person

and myself, in a sense, collaborated together on all

things technology. But strangely, that person reported

to the CFO, and so what we were finding over a course of a

couple of years is the direction of the department, it was hard

to kind of come up with that consensus and really move us

forward. And so there were some pretty significant discussions

around, what should it look like at the time? There really

weren't that many CIO roles in schools. Our head of school at

the time, well, it's pretty visionary about okay, it's I to

create one role as the CIO who would then oversee the director

of technology, who would report to the ED of school. And so that

really allowed us to make decisions at a strategic level,

knowing we still have a director of network technology who is

hands on into operations and really can make things happen,

but really the decisions of the department should be based on

the deans of the school, and not whether it's easy for it or not.

It's so interesting,

Barry, you've always been the type that

you will reach out to Atlas for data and benchmarking, and the

three of you have been contemporaries for a long time,

so you do Informal Benchmarking with each other, but then you

also were always one reaching out to Atlas, going, Hey, do we

have any information about team sizes or things like that? So in

a lot of ways, you've been a great nudging force to get us

down the path of getting data pulled together that we might

not have available for everybody. Tell me how that

informs some of this evolution. I mean, it seems like every time

you're considering some kind of change, you're looking for

information to help you make that change.

Data is such a critical component of our work,

I feel like for many of us, especially smaller schools or

maybe one person who's running the department. It's like, how

do you know whether the decisions you're making make

sense? And so by having a community where you can share

this data, share your stories, be able to really make some

decisions based on the data so important, but something that I

think for us, has always helped drive. Decisions. You know, I

know, when we first moved to laptops for our faculty, I think

I threw out some questions on okay, what are you all doing?

How does that work? What kind of laptops, even just from the

performance standard, were schools looking at at the time

and being able to have those conversations? You know, if

you're only talking with the people in your school, you're

missing just that huge range of expertise. I always say I know

enough about like our wireless to be dangerous, but I rely on

other people to help us make that correct decision on okay,

what system should we get and how do we deploy?

And Barry, that's such a great example of making

sure you're surrounding yourself with team members that are

really, really bright and are super collaborative. Because our

roles today, we can't know absolutely everything, and we so

desperately need to have not only experts in these various

areas, but the ability to have some cross pollination, when you

mention that you know just enough about wireless to be

dangerous, that's such an important factor in these types

of conversations, because you essentially now know what kinds

of questions to ask and to pose of the team, so that you can

derive The data that you want to provide your constituents.

And Barry, I think about this a lot, this example

going back to when COVID hit, and the back and forth with you,

me, Ty and I think a handful of others, when we were trying to

deploy the owls and just the work that we put in together, we

each kind of knew different pieces of it, and we were like,

all right, where can I go? Who can we turn to? And how can that

work? And I think that's a great example of that, needing to have

that network surrounding yourself with either people at

the school or within the Atlas community that can pitch in and

help. But I think it also speaks to something that I have always

known and appreciated about you, is your willingness to share and

not keep information to yourself and really get out and either

share exactly what it is you're doing so somebody else doesn't

need to struggle through it, or Like the work that we did with

those owls, and trying to get ready for what it was going to

be like to go into COVID, and teaming up with people to put

together resources that don't just benefit you and your

school, but benefit the community as a whole. And what

drives you in that to want to connect in those ways?

Yeah, I always believe being able to

collaborate in that way, and I think you're bringing up the

house is a good example of that, because we all, you know, I

remember our head of school, she knew, Okay, the next school

year, we have to offer a hybrid option. We have to be able to

support our families and knowing, like, oh my gosh, how

are we going to figure that out? And so to be able to connect

with other schools and throw out ideas and build, I mean, we

built that website with all of those resources that any school

could access. To me, being able to support each other is just so

critically important again, so many of our schools are

understaffed. You know, we could probably double our staff and

keep ourselves busy. And so knowing that there's never

enough time to be able to collaborate with other leaders

across the country, other schools, I mean, is only going

to benefit us. You know, someone reaches out to me with the

question, I'm like, Absolutely, all help. There's four

independent schools in the area that we meet fairly regularly,

and we always throw ideas to each other about, Hey, you don't

counter this. And there's nothing competitive about that,

even though we are competitors in this market.

Yeah, that's what I love about this

community. And another thing that I think many of you who are

the first generation technology leaders. All three of you on

this pod are first generation tech leaders, which is such a

great phrase in terms of what it captures. You are all thinking

about the long term in terms of succession planning. I'm not

saying that you're like heading out the door towards retirement,

but it is something that I know. I've talked to Bill and Hiram a

lot about on this pod. Barry, I know in my discussions with you,

you have concerns about this, but it's so interesting because

all three of you have been more than 20 years at your schools,

and you are that first generation of technology leader.

You figured it out as you went. There were a lot of changes

along the way. So now that it is so deeply complex and kind of

ingrained into how you do your jobs every day, how do you hand

over the reins to somebody else, to the next generation of

technology leader?

That's a difficult question to answer,

and something that for sure. I am starting to think about and

trying to figure out, what does that look like? You know, give

you an example I had mentioned. I've been helping out printing

our security badges for our students and employees, and just

going through that process of stepping in to that specific

task and trying to figure out, Where are the written

instructions, what's the process? And I basically, by me

stepping into that role, I've written at least partially,

probably 75% of the way there. Here's what needs to happen from

A to Z to print these badges. And so I think that for me, has

been a really good push to think about, okay, I need to do the

same thing with other components of my role and also other tasks

in our tech department. Of what are these things that if

something were to happen to one of us, someone could step in and

replicate that part of the role? There's always trepidation. I

think a lot of people worries. Well, that means I'm easily

replaceable. And I was pushed back on that because I don't

that is just not true, just because there's some

instructions for how to print the badges or how to process,

you know, iPad deployments, you still need the person to do it

and do it efficiently and manage the entire process. So it's just

something I think that I am starting to set aside time, and

that's the hardest part the time to just think about, okay, what

is our priority? What can we focus on? Document really well

and be able to know that someone else could pick it up if

necessary. And Barry,

what's interesting is this whole new area of cyber

that has come into our space has really highlighted policy in

terms of your disaster recovery, what is the policy surrounding

doing X, Y and Z? And it's required many of us to take a

step back to understand, I have it all up here. I get that and

to put it down on paper, takes a lot of time, which you've

already articulated, but it just further emphasizes how much we

have in terms of intellectual property within our minds. And

to your comment earlier about being able to substitute Barry

for somebody new to come on in. The other piece that is missing

from the policy is that network very few people are going to be

able to come into Hathaway Brown with the same skill set and

network that Barry possesses. And so just because you have the

policies and you have the protocols and the step by step

doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a one equals one

with your position. And so often I find it's useful on the

internal side, so that you do get that cross pollination

across the team, so that the team members themselves can

understand and you actually help each other up. I say, Have you

thought about doing it this way? Well, this is how I actually do

it in this area, and maybe you can benefit from it, and then

everybody grows as a result of that cross pollination. I hear

you. We are all in the same position, yeah,

it just goes back. It takes time, and you

really have to be helpful. And it's not going to be something

that's going to be done in a week. It's going to take

multiple years, like we have a document, our internal IT

guidelines, that is just a Google Doc, just with random

policies, things we've said, Oh, this is what we do when this

occurs, or this is a link to this set of instructions. And so

just trying to create that, I think this document is maybe

three years old at this point, and I continually circle back to

that document to add to it, to make changes, but I'm hoping

it's something that eventually will help us down the line, when

there is a change in leadership.

I just want to mention really quickly,

before we get off this topic, that number one, I give a lot of

credit to the first generation technology leaders in our space

for creating the Atlas community. And so part of that

future network will be what you guys have built. Yes, you can

reach out to each other via text, but those who don't have

the baked in network will be able to find that community with

Atlas. And so first I give all of the first generation tech

leaders, many of whom we've had on this podcast, a lot of

credit. Secondly, I also just want to do like, a quick, weird

product plug. So what you're talking about capturing those

procedures and whatnot. Have you guys used scribe? Have we talked

about that? It's an AI tool that basically, kind of follows you

around and grabs screenshots every time you click. And so

I've been recommending that as I work with tech leaders around

the country who are trying to document processes for business

continuity, the scribe AI tool is pretty groovy, and it

basically creates a tutorial or a user's manual, and some tech

leaders I know are using it to help educators know how to use.

Tool. In other cases, they're using it for some of these

capturing of the institutional knowledge. So we'll throw that

in the show notes, but that's one that Atlas team has used

with great success, because we're a small team, and so if

somebody wasn't available to do a certain task, then having this

manual has been really helpful.

Yeah, Scribe is awesome, and it's definitely a

great tool. You know, I want to give a shout out, Kristina, to

your team, because they recently offered a webinar where they

talked about their use of asana and really creating those

workflows in Asana. And that's something I went back to my team

here, because we actually have been using Asana, but we are not

using workflows. I'm like, we need to be able to develop some

workflows. Let's get our laptop deployment. So we've got mac

deployments. We have PC deployments from start to

finish. I want to build a workflow on exactly what happens

from the beginning to the end, and those are the kind of things

that I think will allow for that succession of well, it's not

based on one person who knows all those steps. Those are

documented. It is clear so anyone can come in and deploy

that device. So Asana, to me, is like, that is all my to do in

the next two to three weeks is to develop one of those.

Yeah, it's powerful, if you can unlock it

and take the time, as we say at Atlas, slow down in order to go

fast. It's a really incredible tool, and it kind of one simple

thing, triggers what everybody needs to do. It's a waterfall

effect. It's pretty incredible.

I'll throw one more on that list for you all. Is

that a while ago, we were looking at a tool to manage

passwords, just Password Manager. And we actually got

turned on to by one of the vendors that we worked with, a

tool called it glue. And it glue is something that is used by a

lot of managed service providers to keep track of all of the

stuff that they need to know about all the clients that they

work with. And we kind of flipped it around, and we said,

You know what? We're going to use it internally to keep track

of all the people that we work with, as well as putting in all

of those passwords and taking all those things that you might

use scribe to build for you and lay them in there, as well as

all these other things with like managing like when licenses

expire and all these different pieces. So I think it speaks to

the number of tools that you can use to help manage all this and

also, again, just thinking about the network right now, in five

minutes, we've shared three things that I think anyone

listening can come back and take and really, really run with.

I think that's our new question. Like,

instead of asking, what your favorite coffee is, what about

what is your favorite tech solution at the moment? I bet we

could make a pretty cool list. Yeah,

but going back to the title and going back to as

we plan for the future, do you think the title of CIO carries

more weight to it when you think about somebody coming in after

you, as compared to any of the other titles that we might have.

Do you think that title change moving to that will help the

next person to come in after you and finding that person?

Yeah, you know, for a while I didn't think

titles mattered, but as I moved through my career, I I think

titles do provide some weight to the role. And, you know, I think

through my transition into the CIO role, I think it really

elevated the strategic nature of the work that it wasn't about me

being in charge of plugging in the network cables and the

closets and adjusting the wireless. It was really about

working to develop the strategic path the school is going to take

with our technology in the hands of our kids and our teachers,

and really thinking at that high level, whereas you may have a if

you're just a role that's like a director of network technology

role, which is an important role, it does have a slightly

different significance, even though your job description may

be very similar, I think it does elevate it. And I do think for

schools that are trying to figure out the next step and

really elevate their technology work. I think you want to put

someone in place who has a title that is going to indicate to the

people in that building the importance of

the work they do. And very externally, I would say

it also impacts the types of conversations you can have with

certain vendors. Absolutely.

You know, as a first generation technology

leader. We're all figuring this out together. I know we've had

conversation on, you know, what are best practices for this or

that? Because our schools are all so different, the way we've

structured things is so different. But I think having

that role, that job. Title really does provide that support

to be able to have those conversations vendors, anyone.

So

Barry, you took the T list, the technology

leader in independent school certification. Obviously you are

aware of it because you're an atlas board member, so you knew

the goals of it and what we were trying to accomplish, and what

the research indicated in terms of why we established it, but

why did you decide to take it

when I looked at the TLS and obviously been

connected to it over the past year or so, thinking through,

you know, this is an important step for me, personally, to be

able to sit down and kind of prove to myself is like, yeah,

I've done this work. I deserve to be in this position. But then

also there was this other part of me that was like, I want to

be able to show my colleagues at other schools that anyone can do

this. And the importance of really being that example of,

you know, this is really an important thing that our

community now has, that can really show that you have the

skill set and the knowledge base to lead a school. So personally,

I was like, I got to do this. I'm just so proud of myself for

taking the time understanding what it involved and then

sitting for the test. And truly, I don't think I've sat for a

high stakes test since I was probably 17 years old when I

took the SAT. So it was a little nerve wracking, but I would

encourage anyone to take the T list. Yeah. And what

was really interesting to me about that,

Barry, is that at first, you're like, Well, you know, I'm kind

of at the end of my career. Do I really need it? And so I was so

grateful that you decided to take it, because it's important

for people like you, well known first generation tech leaders in

our space, to have those letters after your name. And now you do.

And so just by existing and putting your credentials on

LinkedIn or whatever, folks know what that's all about, if

somebody is thinking about taking the T list. Do you have

any nudge to get them over the line to go ahead and do it? Any

advice in terms of setting for it? I mean,

it's definitely a commitment. It's something

that you want to take seriously, and you want to make sure you

invest the time to really look at what it involves. I know I

had signed up for Atlas and offered the T less prep program,

which I think was four sessions over a course of four weeks,

which was really a great way to learn about the different

components of a test. You get a sense of the different questions

being asked, and then just kind of sitting down and looking at

all the resources that Atlas provided. A lot of reading, a

lot of me just kind of thinking through these different

scenarios. And so it was definitely a time commitment,

but something, I think again, it forced me to stop, to slow down,

and to reflect. I do think for a lot of the work that we do, we

are putting out fires all the time, but the value of just

taking a moment slowing down and digging into all this T list

prep was just an amazing opportunity that I feel like,

again, like I'm not planning on using T list to find another job

anywhere else I am happy where I'm at, but I just learned so

much That's

really incredible. Another thing that

you've done that I find really impressive is the way that

you've used the Atlas 360 product, and the way that I sort

of describe Atlas 360 for those listeners who may not

understand. It's a self study guide. It asks a lot of probing

questions. It has prompts in various categories. So

technology for education, you know, teaching learning

technology on the operations side of the house, cyber,

security and safety. So it goes through all of these different

categories and asks relevant questions that your school can

kind of wrestle but it also creates a checklist of various

documents and resources that you should make sure that you have.

Barry, I know that you have been an early adopter of the Atlas

360 Can you describe how it is that you use that at your

school?

Well, we initially jumped into it. We

were going through our accreditation, and at the time,

technology was a little bit of an afterthought to the

accreditation. You know, it was mentioned here or there. You

could find some stuff in the facility section, but it really

was lacking for where I thought technology should be within the

accreditation so the 360 guide had recently been published, and

we're like, we're going to use that, you know, that really

provided the framework that we needed to put all of these

random documents and policies and thoughts that we had at

format. All together in one place. We ended up creating a

Google site, an internal Google site that our school has used

just to house our Atlas, 360 technology responses. And that's

something I pulled up over the years. It's something whenever

we have new people join the IT department or other school

leaders, I'll give them access to it, just so they can see how

things are laid out within our department, how we support each

other throughout the school. It's just been a fantastic

guide. And I believe not next year, but then the year after,

we have our accreditation self study year. And so I feel like

we're 90% of the way there, to be honest, in the work we need

to do for that next accreditation, because of the

continued development of this

tool, that is a perfect segue for me to

share a little secret just between us friends and all of

our listeners, Atlas is working on taking the Atlas 360 rubric

and creating a product, an interactive survey dashboard

where you can actually answer the questions on the Atlas 360

and give your school a score, and then you'll be able to

benchmark against other schools. And so that's just a little cone

of silence for us and all of our podcast listeners, but that

product is right in the middle of development. It should be

done this summer, we were working with our good friends at

Mission and data to create literally the coolest product,

to be able to not only do what you've done Barry, but now also

score yourself and then see how you stack up against other

schools. So we're really proud of how that suite of products

has continued to evolve. And Barry, you're instrumental in a

lot of that, because you definitely have encouraged me to

look at ways to expand how that product can be used. Some

schools just use it as a tech audit, and they score themselves

on a paper rubric to be able to have important conversations

about what the school is lacking or where the school is

excelling. And now we're going to take that another step

farther and have the benchmark against your peers so that you

can also have meaningful conversations with your

leadership team, like, Hey, we're falling behind in these

areas, and here's how we score compared to other schools of our

XYZ demographic, and so I thank you, because you have challenged

me and the Atlas team to stay on our toes about that product,

because you're just such a super user of it.

Well, that is so exciting to hear, because I

love that idea of being able to benchmark across other schools,

because sometimes you make a decision you're like, is this

makes sense? What are other schools doing? And so I love

being able to kind of see where we are across other schools. So

I'm excited. Sign me up. I'm ready to go. Early Adopter here.

That

is great news. Kristina, I know that many of us

are participants with the index group, and it doesn't

necessarily have all the detail that I think this atlas

benchmarking tool is going to have to be really useful, and so

I'm very excited about it. And now thank you to Barry, because

every time he has documentation, he always has this creative

licensing on the bottoms of his documentation, allowing us to

share what he's created. And I know I've been grateful for the

work that you've done in this space as well. Barry,

kudos to so many other tech leaders over the

years. You know, I want to be where I am without this atlas

community and the list serves that have been popular among our

group over the years, and it's something that I feel so

fortunate to have had others lift me up. And you know, at

this point in my career, it's so important that we as these

technology leaders continue to lift others up. I'm always happy

to do that, Barry,

you've really put your money where your

mouth is on that, because you have stepped into leadership

roles at Atlas, like I know the team turns to you all the time

when we're working on various projects, but one of the ways

that I am most thrilled that you've been involved with Atlas

is that you serve on the board, and obviously that came after a

lot of years of experience. You've been a long time

presenter. You've helped us with a million little projects, and

that obviously prepares you, because you're so well versed in

the Atlas community, that it really prepares you for

something like a pinnacle service on the board. Tell

everybody a little bit what it's been like for you to be on the

board. You're on the executive committee. So you give back in a

lot of ways. You give a lot of time to your community that

maybe people don't really realize.

Yeah, you know, it's a lot of behind the scenes

work, and I think for me to be able to take off my CIO, my

teacher at and be a part of those strategic, forward

thinking discussions where the work on the board is deep

thinking and big picture, and what's the next 510, years going

to look like? And it's so different than my day to day,

where so much of it is this operations paired with the

strategy. So it's just so much fun to be a part of that, and

with a group of people who really come in with so many

different experiences in work that they do, and just to be

able to continue to support this community. You know, if I had

this community 20 years ago, I can only imagine what I would be

doing now, and I'm just so honored to be part of it. Well,

I know that the guys are itching because

they want to talk about zombies with you. So I'm going to go

ahead and set a timer and allow free range zombie chat for I'm

not sure how many minutes go

so Barry, I know for a fact that you were

involved with picking the location in Reno, and I want to

thank you for that, because it did have the zombie experience

in the basement of the casino there that we were able to take

advantage of. So I don't think I've publicly thanked you for

that. You know, it made the trip that much more special for

Hiram, and I sorry that you couldn't join us for a little

adventure into the immersive world of VR zombies, but it was

truly a pleasure, and I want to thank you again. So

glad to help, so glad to

help. So Barry, you remember in Orlando, we

pulled you as soon as you arrived, you know how many exits

are there to this hotel? And you kind of sat there thinking,

thinking automatically with four, and you knew exactly how

many exits there were. So for Atlanta, here's the mission. The

mission is, we have to save Christina. Who is on your team

to save Kristina

from zombies. I really think that the three of

us have been the sort of key zombie aficionados over the

years. So I want the two of you right next to me as we are going

in and we are taking care of business. I can't think of

anyone else who would step up like that,

a follow up, because you knew exactly what

the layout was when we were in Orlando, and that was very

important in all of the locations that you've been to

for Atlas, for the conference, which conference venue was the

absolute worst choice when it comes to escaping a zombie event

for one to occur at these because these are legitimate and

real world questions.

Yeah, yeah. Obviously, I think about this

all the time. Anytime I go to a new event. You know, it's a

matter of text back and forth as we consider this. Initially I

thought Orlando, the hotel, that big open area you could see all

the rooms. But then I thought, maybe that's good. You can see

them coming. And when I thought about Grand Rapids, that was

such an amazing hotel, really, these old spaces, it's like

there were so many little hidden cubbies. You could be coming

around the corner, back and forth. You never know where

they're going to be hiding, Grand Rapids, by far, would be

the worst possible place to be in a zombie

apocalypse. I'm also thinking Washington, DC was

pretty

rough. Oh, all the underground stuff. That is

true. You've got the access to the trains. Yeah, that's a good

point. Now, you

didn't know where they'd be coming from. They

could be coming in from like other areas. Piped in,

literally,

absolutely.

One last question. Then, mele, weapon of choice.

What is your weapon of choice? Oh,

man, I feel like I would need a good, broad

sword, just something you know, really solid on that. Oh, see,

you're remembering your sort days. Yes, exactly, exactly. I'm

gonna need to figure out how to be a

zombie, because I feel like I'm screwed. You guys are not gonna

protect me from zombies. This is a mess.

Now we've got your back. We've already claimed you

as our one person to save. Okay,

thank goodness. Did I hear there's gonna be a

zombie aficionado meetup at the annual conference this year? Or

was that

just a rumor? Well, especially if Ramsden

shows up. Ooh, true.

He will be there, as I understand it. So

what do I need to plan for? I mean, if we're having a zombie

meetup, do I need, like, a themed menu with human brains

and stuff? I don't know how to plan for that. Guys.

We'll figure it out. I think I know I felt like

a zombie at the end of some of the nights, that's for sure,

after many a long day and imbibing in a few cocktails with

some friends, maybe the morning of maybe not necessarily the

night. Okay, so

now I'm gonna have our producer put a

timer signal audio into this because we're done with zombies.

I hope you had fun. It'll never happen again to all of our

listeners, I thoroughly and sincerely apologize, these guys

are not stoppable. So with that, Barry, tell me what you're

thinking about and working on at school right now. What are some

of the top priorities that you guys are tackling as we round

out this school year?

I think one of the biggest priority right now,

especially as we're. We're nearing the approach to our

accreditation is there's been a lot of discussions around data,

how we as an institution are using data, where's the data

live? You know, how do we best leverage data at Hathaway Brown

School to help support our strategic plan? How we can

support the work we do in our classrooms, and just what that

looks like throughout the entire institution. And then kind of

connected with that is the conversations around artificial

intelligence, and I do think they're connected in many ways,

because they think AI can help you with searching that data.

And you know, again, you have your own internal sort of AI

warehouses, but really thinking about, what does that look like

connected to data, and also, of course, AI in the classroom is a

big conversation that we're having.

100%

Barry, I've got to believe that there must be

something in the accreditation book for 2024, 2025 around data,

because we're going through the same thing right now. It is been

something that has been brought up in multiple areas. The one

thing I think is very interesting in that it's done

for us here in terms of kind of opening up that door and

exposing the need for data has really helped us have

conversations around how we manage our data, who owns our

data? Who's responsible for our data, the way in which the data

is going to be brought out of the system, what we're going to

use it for, and all of those structures that I think you

know, if you're going to bring like Eric Hileman into a room in

CIRIS and talk about raising and elevating that level of

institutional research, like the conversations I'm having right

now with Steve Valentine here at MKA has been around. What does

that look like? Is it one person, or is it a team? Is it a

structured approach that is so much of what I have been happy

that has been exposed, because I often say, on the IT side of

things, we're the ones that can structure the systems to hold

all of it, to gather all of it, but until you really have

practical applications around how it's going to be used, and

the reasons for it, something like an accredited re

accreditation or accreditation report, really gives you, Again,

that juice to get the job done, in order to use these things in

meaningful ways.

Yeah, and I think there's some trepidation

around data. I think it's an overwhelming thing to consider.

It's like there's just so much of it. But my thought is, you

can't wait for that perfect tool, that perfect time, the

perfect person to step in and do this work. I think you have to

start somewhere. I look at the work Atlas is doing, CIRIS

mission and data, and there's so many great resources out there,

so just starting somewhere and knowing that, okay, this is

round one of our work with data, and then let's circle back and

revise and continue to push it forward. So I think our

accreditation in a couple years is going to really elevate this

work at our school as we prepare for it. Through the

accreditation and then

after the best analogy I've had is it's going

to make us all better storytellers. Yes, and I think

that that's the biggest thing you can think about when you're

looking at the data, when you're trying to organize the data, is,

what is that story you're going to tell? How are you going to

visually represent it? How are you going to frame it? And just

have a good story? I think if we can do that, we'll really be

able to get somewhere with the work that we'll do in this area.

Yeah, I totally agree. And

I think our head of school, you know, I look

at when she has to get up in front of families or alums

raising money, whatever she's doing, she's always telling

stories. The importance of those stories, and then the data that

supports that is just so important for the work that we

do.

And I think that'll be an emerging area for

us as well, the Atlas community, the CIRIS community, there's

data today, and then there's going to be data in a few years,

and that's going to evolve, which is why these important

conversations need to be happening, which I love. So I

appreciate that. Before we let you go, Barry, I've often talked

to the guys about their initial career trajectories and how

that's influenced their work as a technology leader. You have a

bachelor's degree in psychology and Spanish, and then you find

yourself in this technology role. How does that background

in Psych and Spanish impact the work that you do now? Has it

been useful some of those tools,

the Spanish? Maybe not as much. You know, I'm

fortunate in my role. I'm able to help support some of our

global trips over the years. So a year ago, a year and a half

ago, in March, I was on our Spain trip, and so I definitely

improved my Spanish a little bit, advanced in that trip, and

some of it did come back, which I was happy about. But, you

know, the psychology major is something that I think, and. Has

really helped me as a tech leader, because you understand

people, you understand group dynamics, you really understand

how to have conversations with people. And so I think about

that psych degree and the work I do as a teacher and as a

technology leader, it's like that lays the groundwork for my

everyday work in what I do. And so 100% I was happy that I had

that degree. It's definitely helped

me out a lot. Yeah, I would imagine in

change management, if nothing else,

absolutely yes. And I do joke with people here

that basically, if something hasn't changed, what's going on.

That change is a constant in our work. And having been at the

same school for 20 years, people think, why aren't you bored?

Like doing the same thing? Was like, No, every two years, three

years, I've reinvented myself with my role. And this is

amazing. I'm so fortunate. So that change element is huge. Do

you guys find that as well? Bill Hiram,

you've been there a long time. Does it change every couple

years for you?

Yeah, it's some years. It seems like it changes,

like every couple of days. But it is interesting. I mean, it

was funny. You mentioned that, Barry, because I sat down with a

colleague yesterday and we were going through and updating some

content on our website around our hiring processes. And it was

just funny, because I think about when I was doing that work

on our website, when we were redoing it, when we were

launching it, and doing all this work, and I was really deeply

involved with it. I could run the back of that system like I

wasn't even thinking about it, and I haven't touched it in a

few years. And it was one of those things where it was like,

Oh my God, I've got to relearn this again. It all came back

after a few minutes, but it was like, it processes and changes,

and we're on to something new. And in a lot of cases, the

things that you learned two or three years ago, they're not

around anymore because you've taken them out. So it's an ever

changing, ever evolving job that always keeps us on our toes and

keeps us interested in what we do.

Yeah. I mean, in addition to it ever changing, I

will say there is some relief in knowing that going through that

experience, then retain that wisdom for what you encounter in

the future. You're like, Okay, this is similar to what this was

like. And if you're a Google school, their dashboard is

changing all the time without warning. So you'll sit there and

you go, Okay, this looks very familiar. Let me go back and

think about this and you realize, all right, I've been

down this road before. I understand what this is about.

Yeah, I think I would be bored if it was the

same thing over and over again every year. I love that

challenge, and I think so many of the people I've met through

Atlas feel the same way. They love these challenges, you know,

like, oh, there's this new thing we need to think about. How do

we best roll out this new CIS how do we approach these

challenges? And I think we all thrive a little bit on the chaos

and the change.

I love that. Chaos wranglers a new title in

the technology director realm Barry. Thank you so much for

spending the time with us. This has been a really awesome

conversation. It's always good to spend time with you. We look

forward to seeing you soon in person at the conference. Thank

you for this opportunity.

Love talking with little to review.

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produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in

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