This week I welcome Janet Murray to the show!

We had such a great conversation!

Janet shares with us what she does, why she decided to start a podcast [1.26 min], the planning process she went through, and how her experience as a journalist helped her with this process.

She stresses the importance of creating content for your audience. Who would they really want to hear from? What would they find useful [6.39 min]

We talk about Janet's target audience and how it's not just about the 'traditional' demographics, for example, age, gender, and job title. That you need to look beyond those and think about the feeling you want to create with your audience. [10.01 min]

How her podcasts and knowledge have evolved over the years [14.22 min] and breaking down the preconceptions around podcasting that can put up barriers to starting. [18.33 min]

Janets shares that the best piece of advice she's been given was to start with a series of episodes on a particular topic as opposed to setting out to podcast 'forever'! [23.54 min]

The importance of creating excitement around your podcast before launching [29.04 min] and experimenting with your social media content to compare engagement/reach of posts.

Janet's love/hate relationship with Audiograms! [35.06min] Interesting to get her perspective on this.

Tips and advice for those of you that have a podcast but are feeling stuck. [40.51]

Thanks so much to Janet for coming on and sharing her knowledge.

-------------

About my Guest:

Janet Murray is a content strategist who helps businesses/brands increase engagement and sales from their content.

She’s the creator of the 2023 Courageous Content Planner & Content Kit - along with a whole host of content kits that save time on content planning/creation. 

Janet is also the host of the Courageous Content podcast and founder of Courageous Content Live Event  - an annual content marketing event for creative businesses/brands. 

She’s also a keynote speaker who has spoken on big stages all over the world including The Youpreneur Summit (London), CMA Live (Edinburgh), Inbound (Boston, USA), Tribe (Nashville) and the Marketing Business Summit (Milan). 

Janet is also ‘AUDHD’ - which means she is autistic and has ADHD (Attention Hyperactivity Deficit Disorder). Which means she has a strong desire for order/routine …but is also ‘one of the most disorganised people on the planet’. Making her one of the unlikeliest people in the world to launch a planner. 

She puts her unlikely success down to creating easy-to-follow systems and processes to help her stay productive (strategies that work for anyone who struggles to stay focused). 

When she’s not creating content - or talking about it - Janet plays the piano, sings, runs and talks to her 3 cats (although not at the same time). She is the mum of a teenage daughter and a long suffering football widow. 

Website/socials

Website: https://www.janetmurray.co.uk

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janmurrayuk/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janetmurrayofficial

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@janmurrayuk

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jan_murray 

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-murray74/

Podcast: 

https://courageous-content.captivate.fm/

If you have any questions or would like some help with your podcast, book a podcast enquiry call.

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You can leave one here

Thanks so much!

I'd love to connect with you on social!

You can find me on:

LinkedIn | Website

Want to start a podcast, but not sure where to start? Download my free Podcast Playbook Get clear on your ideas!

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Unknown: 00:00:07

Welcome to podcasting one on one with me your host

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Rachel. This podcast is for female business owners and

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solopreneurs that are looking to start a podcast that add to your

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own already awesome offering. I'll give you helpful advice

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that you can take away and use in your podcasting journey. I

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hope to answer those tricky questions that just keep you

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from starting once a month, I'll be joined by other female

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podcasters. They'll share their journey with you and offer tips

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and advice they discovered along the way. Let's get started.

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Hi, and welcome to this week's episode. Today I am joined with

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Janet Marie and she is a content and online business strategist,

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specialising in launch and content strategy, her current

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podcast is called the courageous content podcast. Welcome, Janet.

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Thanks for having me.

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I was lovely to have you here. And with somebody with a lot of

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experience in podcasting, as we were just talking, before we hit

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record, why don't you let us know a little bit about what you

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do and why you wanted to start a podcast for your business.

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So it has to reach back quite far now, because I think I

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started my first podcast, I think it was back in 2017

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funding I can't even remember now. But I'm on my second

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podcast, my second public broadcast and I have about 10,

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including private ones now, which we might get onto later.

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So what I do now is quite rightly, as you said, I call

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myself an online content and online business strategist. So I

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help small business owners to to create content that basically

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helps them to make more money in their business or to make enough

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money. Often that could be the case. And obviously content,

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social media content, podcast content, email marketing, blog

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content, the quality of that is, is key. I also help people with

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launch strategy, which can sound like quite a big scary word when

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you first start out. But I often say to people, if if you've ever

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sold anything to anybody, you've had a launch. And even if you're

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selling one to one, or you're working as a VA and you're

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taking on your first client, and you've been offering some kind

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of service, that's a launch. And so I try and encourage people to

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think about launching What's your podcasts, for example,

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everything has to be launched, from you know that very first

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service up to the kind of things that I do now I do these big

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complex funnels with upsells and down cells and cross sales,

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which I would never would have imagined when I first started.

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So I started a podcast, because for two reasons. So like most

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things in my business, I kind of just fell into doing it, I

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thought it would be a good idea. So I thought I'd have a go. So

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I, I was a journalist beforehand, and I was kind of

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building up this online business on the side didn't really know

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that was what I was building. But basically I was I started

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off. I was teaching people what back press and PR to start off

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with actually, and pitching to the press because that was my

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background and I've grown gradually pivoted. But I started

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blogging about that topic and kind of thought, Well, how do I

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get more people to find out about this blog, or maybe I will

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start building an email list and maybe I'll do more social media

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and I just gradually started, lots of things started to click

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into place. And I loved listening to podcasts. I

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listened to a lot of business podcasts at the time that I

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found really helpful. And I thought I fancy having a go at

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that. And I think I could do it like at the time I used to

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listen to Pat Flynn's Smart Passive Income podcast, and had

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various people that I was I was really addicted to their

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podcasts I used to go out running and listen to different

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podcasts where I was at. And I thought of actually having a go

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at that. It seems like a really good way to reach people. And

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what appealed to me was that podcast so the apps that I

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listened to podcasts on, they're like little search engines

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themselves. So when I'm interested in a topic, I'll be

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on the app, seeing who's got a podcast on that topic or who has

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created content on that topic. So for me, it felt like a really

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great way for people to find you. But also beyond actually

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searching within podcast apps looking for things to listen to

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this, the whole SEO side of it. So people will find you when

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they're searching on Google for particular topics. And I've had

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some podcasts that have been first in Google for particular

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search terms, which is really helpful. Not for the ones I

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would have most wanted. But usually the ones that actually

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don't do that anymore. It offers anymore, but it just shows the

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power of showing up and creating regular content. And the other

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side of it. I'm not sure I would have even been able to explain

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this at the time. But it just felt like the podcasts that I

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listened to. I felt like I knew them. And I felt like I liked

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them. And I look forward to the latest episode coming out. And

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it was useful. And I liked the fact that they were introducing

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me to other people that might be useful to me. And I kind of felt

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like being a voice in someone's ear. That kind of intimacy. That

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connection seemed to me an even though I'm a writer by trade, it

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just seemed like there was something really powerful about

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that. So I just kind of thought that seems fun. I think that

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could be quite useful. I think I'll have a go at that.

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I think that's a really good attitude, though. Because I

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think we have talked about this several other people that those

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that barrier to starting some times of perfectionism or

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thinking that you're not going to be any good at it. And I

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think that giving it a go is really important. A lot of

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advice of some of the podcast hosts I've interviewed as being

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just to try it. And I agree as well about the intimacy of

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podcasts as well, you feel like you get to know them. And that's

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really, really powerful. Like you say, that's a great thing to

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be able to do with your podcast. And one of the advantages, I

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think of having a podcast for your business. And so you

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decided to your podcast, what kind of planning was involved

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in? And has that evolved over the years? Like you say you've

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had a couple of different podcasts and private ones? What

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kind of planning did you do?

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But I think what was useful for me because I was a journalist

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before, I didn't think that gave me an advantage because I sort

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of had this understanding of you don't create content for

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yourself, you create content for your audience. And again,

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without probably writing it down, or even knowing I was

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doing it, I was thinking, well, who are the people that I need

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to listen to this podcast for it to pay for itself and work for

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my business and attract the kind of people that I would love to

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work with? Who are those people? What kind of content do they

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need from me? And it really came from just thinking about what

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are the questions I get asked all the time. So when my podcast

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first started, I was specialising in helping people

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with press and PR, and I hardly do any of that. At all, I just

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don't do it. Because I've my business has really changed. But

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I thought about the questions that people asked me. So how do

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I write a press release? How do I pitch to a journalist? How do

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I find out who which editor to pitch to? So I started off just

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thinking about those questions. And then as I started to move

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into online marketing, which is the best email marketing

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platform, what should I post on Instagram stories or, and just

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the things that people were talking to me and asking me that

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I knew more about and had, you know, authority and not your

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authority, but experience at the time? I just, and again, I

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probably didn't even consciously know I was doing that was just

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like, I just want to be helpful. So I answered people's questions

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in the solo episodes. But in the interview episodes, I thought

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about who would my ideal listeners? Who would they really

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want to hear from? Who would they felt find really useful?

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How can I help them build a community and also just to build

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that kind of network of experts that you, I thought about some

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of the podcasts that I listened to? And how many other podcasts

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is that they'd introduced me to useful people that had really,

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really helped me. And I thought about, how can I do that for my

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audience? How can I just just basically be a helpful resource?

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Yeah, when I wanted to start this podcast, that's what I was

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thinking about is trying to think about what your audience

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wants to hear. And that's a really important thing when

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you're thinking about the content or coming up with the

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content for your podcast is to think about what your audience

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would like to hear.

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Yeah, I think there's a danger of navel gazing, when you create

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content that you want to listen to, and that's okay, if it's a

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hobby podcast. But if it's a podcast, where you you're being

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strategic about it, and even if you wouldn't use that word, if

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you're, if you're starting a podcast, because you want it to

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generate customers or clients, you are being strategic. So if

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you say, I'm going to create this podcast to help me attract

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clients, and then it's all about just stuff that you're

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interested in, or you're talking about yourself all the time,

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then you might enjoy that. And that might be great, but you're

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probably not going to get the results that you you hope for.

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Yeah, absolutely. That's That's right. And you weren't

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consciously thinking about your target audience. But who would

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you say is your target audience for your for your podcasts right

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now?

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So entrepreneurs, or they may not even call themselves

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entrepreneurs, business owners. So it's mainly women, and not by

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choice. Really, it's just kind of how it's worked out. So women

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who are running businesses, typically they tend to be in

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their 30s 40s 50s. They've got children, usually they're often

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juggling their business alongside raising a family, or

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they've got caring commitments. But I think it needs to go

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beyond that. I'm not a big fan of those kinds of avatars. Like,

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for me, it's about what's, what's the sort of emotion that

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brings them together? Or what's the feeling. So that's where I

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ended up later on with courageous content, I think

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about it took me years to kind of get there. But what unites a

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lot of my listeners, I think, is needing a bit of help in an

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area. So wanting to put content out in the world, but feeling is

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what I've got to say, important enough, or am I good enough? Or

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does my voice sound funny? Or do I look silly on camera, and so

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something that's always at the heart of what I create, and

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interestingly, it's not something I particularly

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struggle with. But I do understand that in other people,

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and so something that I've always, always was just try and

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break things down, make them simple and, and give give people

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the structures that they need to take action, because I think,

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How many people think about starting a podcast for years or

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talk about it? Or how many clients do I come across who

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have written an outline for a podcast, or they've written a

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concept for an online course or whatever it might be. And

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they're too scared to take that step forward. So when I think

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about my ideal listeners, that's the thing I think that brings

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them together, it's, it's not like a kind of this age, they

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drive this car, but it's more about the, they often have

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really great skills, and they have a lot to offer. But for

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whatever reason, they feel a little bit nervous about, about

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putting their voice out in the world, and will often hold back

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and doing so. So when I'm thinking about the kind of

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content I create, I'm always trying to think about how can I

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make this really easy? What structures can I provide to, to

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almost give them a push off the side? Without without saying

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like, Oh, just get on with it? Like? It's sort of acknowledging

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that I think often for women as well, it, it can be more

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difficult. They can be more fearful of criticism. And so I

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feel like I do I do understand who it is I'm talking to, but it

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goes beyond the kind of Avatar, if you see what I mean, it's

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more about the feelings, the emotions that they share, I

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think,

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yeah, that's a really, it is quite a deep way to think about

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it. But it doesn't make more sense than actually thinking

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about it. Like you say, you know, women in business, it is

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about that feeling. And that would really appeal. I mean, I'm

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kind of your demographic, I'm in my late 30s. And I started my

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own business. And those kinds of fears came up for me as well. So

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listening to something that speaks to that would really

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resonate with me. And that's, that's exactly what you want to

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get out of your podcast, your content.

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Yeah. And I do think it's hard as well, because you don't

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always know. Often you don't know that until you just are

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brave enough to put some content out in the world. And then you

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say, Oh, I see I'm really wasn't that episode I did on this, or

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this piece of content really resonated. And, unfortunately, I

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think a lot of people want to write that bit before they've

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created any content. And I think unfortunately, you just have to

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get out there, put some stuff out there and see what learns.

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And that's when you start to really understand who, who that

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audience is, and you get better and better at creating the kind

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of content they want.

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Yeah, how would you say that your your podcasts have evolved?

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has it taken you? So you started say back in 2016? Have you did

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you find it was quite a long process to get to where you are

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now in terms of recognising what your audience needs from you.

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I think I was always so quite good at that because of my

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background as a content creator as a journalist and as a

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different type of a different type of discipline, but it's

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still about giving people what they want or need. And so I do

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always say to people, be kind to yourself, because I do recognise

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I've got a bit of an advantage or a privilege in that area

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because I was already doing that but in a different sort of way.

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Definitely got a lot better. So my first few episodes are

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worried so much about my voice and I'm worried. I sound like

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Hello, isn't it my podcast started it's been had about four

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different name changes and it was like the soulful PR podcast

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and it was like Hello, welcome to the successful PR podcast.

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And I think why is that it's okay to be yourself. And it's

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okay to. In fact, it's better with podcasting. And I used to

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worry about, I have the sort of I was born, I was born up north,

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I was born in Liverpool and moved to Kent, in my, when I was

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about six or seven. So you move to like, the south with a scouse

Unknown: 00:15:24

accent when you were six or seven. And I went to school and

Unknown: 00:15:28

had like, elocution lessons. So I had this vague sort of

Unknown: 00:15:30

confusing. And sometimes I felt like, I have the odd word or

Unknown: 00:15:36

I'll say, well, I'll just say something big northern sound

Unknown: 00:15:38

things on my family of scousers. And then I hear this like sort

Unknown: 00:15:41

of like local accent, you know how critical we are victims of

Unknown: 00:15:45

our own voice, not each others. And I think at first I kind of

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was afraid to speak in my normal voice. And when I listened back

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to those first episodes, I think, and also just didn't

Unknown: 00:15:56

sound like that much. Actually, I think that the more that you

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do it, and the more relaxed, you are often the content, it's a

Unknown: 00:16:05

lot better. And people do need to hear you laugh. And they do

Unknown: 00:16:09

need to, sometimes he go off with a little story sometimes or

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whatever. But again, if only we could all be perfect. The first

Unknown: 00:16:17

few episodes, the only way we get there is is is to be is just

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to do it. And when I relaunched to a podcast, that was last

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year, so it was 2021. I wanted to make my podcast if there's a

Unknown: 00:16:30

lot shorter, because I felt like even though I had an editor, I

Unknown: 00:16:32

felt like I you'd get somebody on a call, and you'd spend the

Unknown: 00:16:36

first 1520 minutes trying to get to know them. And I know, as a

Unknown: 00:16:40

listener, sometimes I feel a bit frustrated, because I just I

Unknown: 00:16:43

just want to get to the juicy bit I want to get to the meat.

Unknown: 00:16:46

And about Sometimes it took me a long time actually to get to the

Unknown: 00:16:49

point of asking a question. And so I actually had some coaching

Unknown: 00:16:52

about six or seven years in to kind of improve my interviewing

Unknown: 00:16:58

skills, because I found sometimes I'd listened back and

Unknown: 00:17:01

it would take, take me about four hours to get to where I

Unknown: 00:17:04

wanted to go. And sometimes that's great, but that sometimes

Unknown: 00:17:10

it can be a bit frustrating for the listener. But again, you

Unknown: 00:17:14

can't know that unless you actually create some content and

Unknown: 00:17:16

you listen to yourself back and you my content was fine. What

Unknown: 00:17:20

was putting out but it was almost like I got to the point

Unknown: 00:17:22

was actually I've been doing this for a while. I wonder if I

Unknown: 00:17:25

can do it better. So I've gone off on track anyway, what you

Unknown: 00:17:29

asked in the first place, but But it's if I've definitely

Unknown: 00:17:31

changed and I think I feel like I didn't see myself as a

Unknown: 00:17:35

podcast. So I'm actually going to Podcast Movement. I'm going

Unknown: 00:17:37

to a podcasting event in Dallas.

Unknown: 00:17:41

I really would love to go to all the podcasting events over

Unknown: 00:17:44

there.

Unknown: 00:17:46

I went to one in London, it was the first one I've ever been to

Unknown: 00:17:48

and I speak as well. But I just never thought of going I didn't

Unknown: 00:17:51

I just didn't really see myself as a podcaster. But

Unknown: 00:17:55

yeah, I guess I hadn't when I first came across to you, I

Unknown: 00:17:58

didn't realise quite how much podcasting that you do. And I

Unknown: 00:18:01

came across you on Instagram for your content and your content

Unknown: 00:18:05

creation. I think I downloaded something from you. I think it

Unknown: 00:18:07

was last year. But yeah, the podcast was that the one in

Unknown: 00:18:11

London in May. Yeah. Because I, I really wanted to go to that.

Unknown: 00:18:15

And my husband was away. So I couldn't wangle that trip to

Unknown: 00:18:18

London. But that looks I looked at some of the because I'm part

Unknown: 00:18:22

of Captivate as well. They, they sent out some emails and updates

Unknown: 00:18:26

and things from what happened at the show. And it was just really

Unknown: 00:18:28

interesting to see what was going on there. If you're,

Unknown: 00:18:32

you're a podcaster. But I think

Unknown: 00:18:33

the thing is that I guess the reason I've never got into that

Unknown: 00:18:36

world because I I used to be quite, I had this little

Unknown: 00:18:40

microphone, my Blue Snowball mic. And I only upgraded after

Unknown: 00:18:45

about three or four years. And actually, my husband bought me a

Unknown: 00:18:47

new microphone. And I kept it in the box for the year because for

Unknown: 00:18:50

I liked I liked this other one. And then I thought I probably

Unknown: 00:18:53

ought to, you know, maybe get a slightly better better

Unknown: 00:18:55

microphone. But I didn't see myself as a podcaster. Because

Unknown: 00:18:58

this is just a medium. It's just a way of me communicating. And

Unknown: 00:19:02

what I'm getting to here is that there can be this idea that

Unknown: 00:19:06

podcasting is all people I've met so many people who have

Unknown: 00:19:10

never published a podcast or with maybe published two

Unknown: 00:19:12

episodes. And they're talking down to you about podcast mics

Unknown: 00:19:17

or mixers, or, or equipment. And they were like how many? Well

Unknown: 00:19:22

I've published 500 books. And so And you're telling me what I

Unknown: 00:19:27

should be doing better and I think sometimes it can feel like

Unknown: 00:19:29

that's the world and it isn't there. I found a really a nice

Unknown: 00:19:32

people but I didn't really identify as being a podcast

Unknown: 00:19:34

because for me it was just like plugging my microphone and I

Unknown: 00:19:37

didn't realise what I knew as well about how to because it

Unknown: 00:19:41

isn't just about the tech, obviously it's important to have

Unknown: 00:19:44

good quality audio and it's but but it doesn't have to be like

Unknown: 00:19:50

broadcast standard to be useful. You don't need loads of kit. You

Unknown: 00:19:54

don't need to spend loads and loads of money. The bits that

Unknown: 00:19:57

can really make the difference are like how you were actually

Unknown: 00:20:00

find your episodes and the content and how you promote

Unknown: 00:20:04

them. And but I think sometimes podcasting can seem like it's

Unknown: 00:20:08

all techie. And and, and I was glad that I stepped into that

Unknown: 00:20:12

world I thought actually know quite often a lot about this.

Unknown: 00:20:15

And actually the the important bits because it isn't all about

Unknown: 00:20:18

the tech and the mixers and the mics, you know, it's got its

Unknown: 00:20:21

place, but there's so much more to it.

Unknown: 00:20:23

Yeah, I, when I first started I, that's the one bit that I was

Unknown: 00:20:27

kind of a bit worried about, my husband's a sound engineer as

Unknown: 00:20:30

well. And he was so helpful with me and helping me get set up and

Unknown: 00:20:35

not even with like, really expensive stuff, really, but

Unknown: 00:20:37

just things that can work at home. And I had this kind of

Unknown: 00:20:42

image in my head about broadcasting and, and that, oh,

Unknown: 00:20:45

it's BBC standard and felt like that was a bit of a barrier

Unknown: 00:20:49

until I started and then started delving into like the podcast

Unknown: 00:20:53

world and listening to lots of different people's podcasts and

Unknown: 00:20:56

knowing that, actually, that is a very small part. Yes, you want

Unknown: 00:21:01

to have nice clear audio, yes, you want to record it on

Unknown: 00:21:04

something, and that's going to work for you. But like you say,

Unknown: 00:21:09

your podcast, if your podcast is perfectly sounded, but it's not

Unknown: 00:21:14

resonating with your audience or the content is not there. What

Unknown: 00:21:16

is the point of your podcast. So in actual fact, if that's going

Unknown: 00:21:21

to be a barrier to you starting, you're better off just having

Unknown: 00:21:24

your air pods recording into your phone or to anchor or

Unknown: 00:21:28

something like that, and worried about your content, and then you

Unknown: 00:21:31

can evolve once you are comfortable with everything that

Unknown: 00:21:35

you're doing, really. So that's kind of what I try and say,

Unknown: 00:21:38

recommend people who've said to me, you know, I was like, don't

Unknown: 00:21:41

let that stop you from starting if you've got a great idea that

Unknown: 00:21:44

your, your message you want to give out to your audience.

Unknown: 00:21:48

Yeah. And it's so easy. Especially I use Captivate now,

Unknown: 00:21:53

but I didn't when we first started, I Burwell podcast is

Unknown: 00:21:56

still on Libsyn. And I had to, but I will say to people, I did

Unknown: 00:22:01

it. And I wouldn't say I was a particularly tech techie person,

Unknown: 00:22:03

but I had to Lipson is not quite so smooth in the back end, as

Unknown: 00:22:08

Captain a and, and the like Captivate just makes everything

Unknown: 00:22:13

so easy. It's step by step, you don't need to be techie at all

Unknown: 00:22:16

to to get your podcast on iTunes or whatever. But I had to kind

Unknown: 00:22:20

of do this workup not work around, but I had to use two

Unknown: 00:22:22

tools on my website. I used blueberry and Lipson and I got a

Unknown: 00:22:27

friend who had a podcast to show me how to do it. We got a zoom

Unknown: 00:22:30

call, she showed me how to do it. I wouldn't say I was that

Unknown: 00:22:33

ticket at all. And I managed it No, no problem at all. And I

Unknown: 00:22:36

think sometimes people that gets I always say to my clients, if

Unknown: 00:22:40

the if the Lord she would sometimes work with clients who

Unknown: 00:22:43

are watching a podcast to hit their launch strategy and stop

Unknown: 00:22:46

even thinking about that bit because that's the easy bit. The

Unknown: 00:22:49

hard bit is coming up with a, you know, a concept or topic for

Unknown: 00:22:53

a podcast that people actually want to listen to planning out

Unknown: 00:22:57

your first season or whatever it is that you're doing. And making

Unknown: 00:23:01

those episodes, you know, really great content, the the tech bit

Unknown: 00:23:05

is all figured out at all. It's not anywhere near as tricky, as

Unknown: 00:23:11

it seems like, just like you say, if it could be the best

Unknown: 00:23:16

producing cast in the world, but as the focus is the content

Unknown: 00:23:19

isn't good. If it's not a good fit for your audience. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:23:23

it's not it's not going to, you know,

Unknown: 00:23:25

it's not going to resonate. So what would you recommend? In

Unknown: 00:23:32

terms of planning? Have you got any tips or advice around the

Unknown: 00:23:37

planning side of things for your podcast? Like, for example, I

Unknown: 00:23:41

kind of recommend people like saying that podcasting is a bit

Unknown: 00:23:44

of a long game and trying to work out their commitment and

Unknown: 00:23:47

work out exactly what they can commit to, and then planning out

Unknown: 00:23:52

their episodes.

Unknown: 00:23:54

Yeah, so the best bit of advice I've been given, which I give to

Unknown: 00:23:57

clients all the time, which I didn't take myself, but it's

Unknown: 00:23:59

because I have my personality is different. I think you have to

Unknown: 00:24:02

take into account your your capacity, your resources, if

Unknown: 00:24:06

you've got young children, or you've got other commitments, or

Unknown: 00:24:09

you've still got a day job, you could set out to do five

Unknown: 00:24:13

podcasts a week or something. And, you know, most podcasts,

Unknown: 00:24:16

when you look at the research, they don't go beyond the first

Unknown: 00:24:18

or second episode. And because they sort of sign up to it

Unknown: 00:24:22

thinking I've got to do this forever. So the best piece of

Unknown: 00:24:23

advice I've been given, which although I didn't take my

Unknown: 00:24:26

clients have taken and have been very glad is just to start off

Unknown: 00:24:30

with the season. So instead of thinking, I'm going to launch a

Unknown: 00:24:32

podcast, and I'm going to do this for everyone, everyone ever

Unknown: 00:24:34

just go okay, I'm going to launch a podcast and I'm going

Unknown: 00:24:36

to do six or eight episodes on a topic that I feel comfortable

Unknown: 00:24:42

either talking about or can find other people to talk about. And

Unknown: 00:24:47

I'm just going to do that. And then if that goes well, or you

Unknown: 00:24:52

know, I can take a step back and then I can come back with

Unknown: 00:24:53

another season on I think where people get themselves in a

Unknown: 00:24:58

tears. I think sometimes it's when they'll Like when starting

Unknown: 00:25:00

a podcast, and now I've got to do it every week forever, or

Unknown: 00:25:03

I've got to do it every other week. Whereas if you just say,

Unknown: 00:25:05

Well, look, I'm just going to do is a short series of six to

Unknown: 00:25:07

eight episodes or whatever. See how this goes, get them done,

Unknown: 00:25:12

get them out there, you can come back with another season, you

Unknown: 00:25:15

can then go to a podcast that happens all year round after

Unknown: 00:25:18

that. But I feel like sometimes people get so bogged down in

Unknown: 00:25:22

what's going to be happening in 3030 episodes that they don't,

Unknown: 00:25:26

they never make the first four to six. And I think that's a

Unknown: 00:25:29

good piece of advice that that I've been given. And I say, I

Unknown: 00:25:31

haven't taken it personally, because I've got the kind of

Unknown: 00:25:33

personality that's just like, Oh, I'm just doing it. And I

Unknown: 00:25:35

just managed to do it. But I've seen it work with clients, I

Unknown: 00:25:38

think it's, it really takes the pressure off. And the second

Unknown: 00:25:42

thing is, is this thing about being strategic. So, and I've

Unknown: 00:25:46

got better and better at this over the years. But if you're

Unknown: 00:25:50

going to go to the trouble of recording a podcast series,

Unknown: 00:25:54

hopefully it stays and it will be a good way to start. What is

Unknown: 00:25:58

it? What's your goal? Like? What do you want to sell at the end,

Unknown: 00:26:01

so I'm just about to launch a podcast, which is a repurposed

Unknown: 00:26:05

to private podcast and repurposing as a public podcast.

Unknown: 00:26:09

And its goal is to sell one product that I know sells really

Unknown: 00:26:14

well when I put it out by email on social media. But this will

Unknown: 00:26:17

be a way of having people buying this product all the time. So

Unknown: 00:26:20

it's on a very specific topic. So what's your goal? Is your

Unknown: 00:26:23

goal to get X number of new clients? Or is it to sell a

Unknown: 00:26:27

particular programme? Or is it because then you can do things

Unknown: 00:26:32

like right from the off, you can do things like you can create,

Unknown: 00:26:35

create special offer or discount code or something so that you

Unknown: 00:26:38

know that the listeners of your podcast, you know what they're

Unknown: 00:26:40

doing. So it could be a special email, lead magnet or a special,

Unknown: 00:26:44

but if you just kind of, it's easy for me to say this for so

Unknown: 00:26:46

many years of experience, but like, it costs time, and it can

Unknown: 00:26:50

cost a little bit of money. And I would recommend getting

Unknown: 00:26:53

somebody to help with editing shownotes if you can do from the

Unknown: 00:26:58

off, because it will save you a lot of time, if you can just

Unknown: 00:27:00

focus on the content. In fact, it's possible. It's not always

Unknown: 00:27:03

possible, but there was quite a bit of time and resources

Unknown: 00:27:06

involved. And being able to measure what weather, you know,

Unknown: 00:27:10

you're not going to get overnight success. But if it's

Unknown: 00:27:15

if it's working, you will see some glimmers, you know, you'll

Unknown: 00:27:18

see oh, you know, I got one inquiry and and you know, you

Unknown: 00:27:23

might not be a millionaire overnight, but it's just sort of

Unknown: 00:27:26

thinking what's my purpose is, and instead of trying to sell

Unknown: 00:27:31

everything, or you know, just think about well, I'm going to

Unknown: 00:27:33

focus this season on one product or one service or getting this

Unknown: 00:27:37

many clients, I've got a friend who's got a forecast, which says

Unknown: 00:27:40

a tiny, tiny audience in comparison to mine, but it makes

Unknown: 00:27:43

like loads of money, because it's very specific exposure for

Unknown: 00:27:46

a niche audience. And in every episode, she talks about her

Unknown: 00:27:50

main product that she sells, it doesn't matter if you've got 10

Unknown: 00:27:53

listeners, if those 10 listeners are doing what you want them to

Unknown: 00:27:57

do, or you who cares, like. So that's probably quite a few

Unknown: 00:28:02

things in fun. I could probably go on for ages. But there are a

Unknown: 00:28:06

few things that come to mind.

Unknown: 00:28:08

I never thought about doing like a specific season and then

Unknown: 00:28:12

targeting to that specific product product. But that's a

Unknown: 00:28:16

great idea that is a, like you said, an easier way to see the

Unknown: 00:28:22

kind of response that you're getting, if you have that

Unknown: 00:28:25

special creative for that specific series. That I mean,

Unknown: 00:28:29

that's one thing I was going to ask you about as well about kind

Unknown: 00:28:32

of engagement that you have with your audience and not knowing,

Unknown: 00:28:37

because I find it quite hard to I mean, I'm very early in my

Unknown: 00:28:40

podcasting journey. And I one of the reasons why I joined

Unknown: 00:28:43

Captivate is because they're a growth podcast platform, and I'd

Unknown: 00:28:46

like to learn from them myself about growing my podcast, how

Unknown: 00:28:51

have you found growing? Has it kind of happened organically?

Unknown: 00:28:56

And then do you get a lot of engagement from your listeners

Unknown: 00:28:59

that will know that you're to help you on the right track?

Unknown: 00:29:04

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a there's a people often think

Unknown: 00:29:07

they'll say, oh, what's the what's the blueprint for you

Unknown: 00:29:10

know, growing your podcast audience and you know, there's,

Unknown: 00:29:12

there's, I wish there was like a one way, but things that how you

Unknown: 00:29:16

launch your podcast can make a huge difference. So I'm working

Unknown: 00:29:20

with a client at the moment who's launching a podcast in

Unknown: 00:29:23

October and one of the things that we're doing is is trying to

Unknown: 00:29:27

basically create almost like a flash mob so that she's got a

Unknown: 00:29:30

wait list of people who know the podcast is coming. They are

Unknown: 00:29:35

excited, it's coming in, you know, you can you can do this

Unknown: 00:29:38

even if you have a tiny tiny audience. You know, if you've

Unknown: 00:29:40

got three people who are excited about it, that's better than

Unknown: 00:29:42

like, just showing up one day and going hey, listen to my

Unknown: 00:29:45

podcast. So So it's about kind of letting people know that it's

Unknown: 00:29:49

coming. So things like if I was launching a new podcast, and I'd

Unknown: 00:29:54

have to do this, you know, here are my cover designs like which

Unknown: 00:29:58

one do you like the best or Thinking about calling it this,

Unknown: 00:30:01

like, you know, I'm thinking about doing my first season on

Unknown: 00:30:05

this. And, you know getting, even if it's a small amount of

Unknown: 00:30:09

people who are following you on your email list or Facebook

Unknown: 00:30:13

group, even if you have to ask them, your friends or whatever,

Unknown: 00:30:16

just letting people know it's coming before it happens,

Unknown: 00:30:18

because I don't think any of us know the exact formula. But

Unknown: 00:30:23

they, you know, it's kind of received wisdom that the more

Unknown: 00:30:28

people you can get listening, when it goes live, and the more

Unknown: 00:30:32

reviews that you can get more more engagement, basically, the

Unknown: 00:30:35

algorithm sees, then iTunes or whatever is going on what was

Unknown: 00:30:39

going on here. And it's going to, it's going to, it's more

Unknown: 00:30:43

likely to get put in the budget, call it on iTunes, the all the

Unknown: 00:30:47

trials, it is it's going to impact on your charts, but also,

Unknown: 00:30:53

what do they call it like new and noteworthy or, you know,

Unknown: 00:30:56

certain things. So just sit not just kind of quietly, oh, I've

Unknown: 00:30:59

got my forecast. But you know, if you've got an email list, if

Unknown: 00:31:01

it's got 10 people on it, like tell those 10 people about it,

Unknown: 00:31:04

tell them it's coming, give them a bit of an incentive, if you

Unknown: 00:31:08

can do but basically, I always just trying to get people

Unknown: 00:31:12

listening on the first day getting to go off and leave me a

Unknown: 00:31:14

review. One little thing that I've learned about that is if

Unknown: 00:31:18

you want people to live your review, you need to show them

Unknown: 00:31:20

how to do it, because they might not do it. Because I don't have

Unknown: 00:31:22

to do it. So didn't video if you can. And these were things I've

Unknown: 00:31:26

learnt along the way. But so that's the first thing is

Unknown: 00:31:27

actually launching it, you know, actually telling people about

Unknown: 00:31:31

it, not just rocking up and telling people. And then it's

Unknown: 00:31:36

about I think people sometimes get despondent with podcasts

Unknown: 00:31:40

because they think they can watch a broadcast. And then yes,

Unknown: 00:31:44

there is I mentioned at the beginning, yes, there is a kind

Unknown: 00:31:46

of search element to it, that the people will be on the app

Unknown: 00:31:49

looking for certain topics. So having really thinking about

Unknown: 00:31:53

your subject headers is really important as well. Sometimes

Unknown: 00:31:55

people use really

Unknown: 00:31:58

mysterious sounding headers, but like, actually, if you want

Unknown: 00:32:01

people to find you, because your virtual assistant that

Unknown: 00:32:04

specialises in working with bookkeepers, it really pays to

Unknown: 00:32:08

use bookkeepers as zeros or zero, or like things that people

Unknown: 00:32:12

problems people are gonna be looking for. So there's that

Unknown: 00:32:15

kind of thing. But also social media, you know, just a lot of

Unknown: 00:32:19

people think, Oh, I've already posted about my new episode,

Unknown: 00:32:22

like, well post five more times, six more times, talking about it

Unknown: 00:32:25

in different ways. Because not everybody will see everything

Unknown: 00:32:28

you post, if you've got an email list, even if it's got 15 people

Unknown: 00:32:31

on it, email them, you just have to really keep getting on other

Unknown: 00:32:35

people's podcasts. That's a whole other being a podcast

Unknown: 00:32:38

guest. So actually reaching out to people. I've actually working

Unknown: 00:32:44

on a kit at the moment, which I'm going to launch later in the

Unknown: 00:32:46

podcast content kit, which will have templates for things like

Unknown: 00:32:51

shownotes, and social media posts, but also how to reach out

Unknown: 00:32:54

to another podcast host and how to offer yourself as a guest. I

Unknown: 00:32:59

don't know Rachel, would you ever get people pitching to be

Unknown: 00:33:02

on your podcast, but most of them are terrible. And they've

Unknown: 00:33:05

not listened to the podcast or hadn't even bothered to like,

Unknown: 00:33:07

scroll through. So you can stand out just by the way that you

Unknown: 00:33:13

pitch yourself. And I know lots of podcasts I've listened to,

Unknown: 00:33:17

because I've been listening to someone else's podcast and they

Unknown: 00:33:20

have a guests on file. That's interesting. And then I find out

Unknown: 00:33:22

they've got a podcast. So that can be so there's lots and lots

Unknown: 00:33:25

of different things that you can do. But it's it's a long game,

Unknown: 00:33:29

like you said, Rachel, you know, you're not going to probably,

Unknown: 00:33:32

you know, be able to retire on the millions. Yet people when

Unknown: 00:33:36

I've helped people launch podcasts before and they're

Unknown: 00:33:37

like, why? When can I get a sponsor? I was like, Well, you

Unknown: 00:33:39

have to be able to offer something to responsibilities,

Unknown: 00:33:41

like you need to have an audience and some listeners, and

Unknown: 00:33:43

it's not even about numbers, it's just about, you need to

Unknown: 00:33:46

have the right people listening and all that kind of stuff. So

Unknown: 00:33:49

it and you can never, you can never just leave it you know,

Unknown: 00:33:52

you I check in on my analytics every week, like some of the

Unknown: 00:33:57

more frequently, what can we do better? How can we do

Unknown: 00:34:00

differently? Do we need to do more posts? You know, it's quite

Unknown: 00:34:04

hard sometimes when you're doing social media posts or podcasts

Unknown: 00:34:06

because you're like, Hey, listen to this, it's on this. And then

Unknown: 00:34:10

people don't interact in the same way as they might do with

Unknown: 00:34:12

other content. So it's thinking about how can I think different

Unknown: 00:34:15

ways to do this? So I realised that that doesn't sound as

Unknown: 00:34:21

well, I think as well. It's not always that simple. Like when

Unknown: 00:34:25

you're doing you've liked social media, even if it's not for your

Unknown: 00:34:27

podcasts, or are you want to post in different ways. And that

Unknown: 00:34:31

was one thing I was going to ask you about what what things you

Unknown: 00:34:33

do to promote your podcast. So do you see do you find that when

Unknown: 00:34:38

you post? Do you have posts like audiograms? Or do you do video

Unknown: 00:34:42

clips on your social media for your podcast? Or do you because

Unknown: 00:34:46

I try and sometimes take elements from an episode and try

Unknown: 00:34:51

and make it into a different type of post. That's maybe not

Unknown: 00:34:54

necessarily saying listen to this in the beginning because

Unknown: 00:34:57

you're right. Sometimes it's quite difficult to know How to

Unknown: 00:35:01

Promote it without it seeming like the same posts over again,

Unknown: 00:35:05

again.

Unknown: 00:35:06

Yeah, so audiograms. And if you're not familiar with what

Unknown: 00:35:09

they are, as you've probably seen them on social media, it's

Unknown: 00:35:12

when people take a little boy. Yes. Sorry, the audio clips.

Unknown: 00:35:15

Yeah. And they, they take a little clip from the podcast,

Unknown: 00:35:18

and then using the list. No, not you, Rachel. Because I am.

Unknown: 00:35:23

That's because I've been podcasting for so many years. I

Unknown: 00:35:25

know how to go. Oh, and if you don't know what they are,

Unknown: 00:35:27

they're kind of not very good. Yeah. Right. And, but there's a

Unknown: 00:35:33

little video clips where you have, it might be a really juicy

Unknown: 00:35:37

quote from an episode, it's usually something to pull you

Unknown: 00:35:39

in. I've got a real love hate relationship with them, because

Unknown: 00:35:42

I have done them in the past. And I use them. My favourite

Unknown: 00:35:45

tool is cap wing for for that. And it's really great for, for

Unknown: 00:35:49

creating, there's lots of different things. That's just my

Unknown: 00:35:51

favourite one. But I find it actually work that well.

Unknown: 00:35:54

Something that works better is me just switching the cabinet on

Unknown: 00:35:57

and saying, Hey, I've just done this podcast, it's about this.

Unknown: 00:36:00

But I find, and this can be the case of lots of content is that

Unknown: 00:36:03

people zone out. So now afterwards, they've seen so many

Unknown: 00:36:06

of them, that they just kind of switch off, I found that there's

Unknown: 00:36:09

two things one of them is and I wouldn't say practice it,

Unknown: 00:36:12

because you think you've practised it, and then you're

Unknown: 00:36:14

like, that's not working anymore. But I'm thinking about

Unknown: 00:36:18

it Well, personally. So sometimes I'm like a topic of a

Unknown: 00:36:21

podcast episode, I might find a photograph or something personal

Unknown: 00:36:24

or personal story or something, and then talk about that, and

Unknown: 00:36:28

then go and by the way, I just made a podcast and this and that

Unknown: 00:36:30

type of thing tends tends to work better. The other thing is

Unknown: 00:36:34

just the quality of the topic. So every so often, I'll do a

Unknown: 00:36:38

podcast episode, which really spikes my listening, listening.

Unknown: 00:36:43

And usually, it's something controversial, or it might just

Unknown: 00:36:47

be a topic that maybe that not many people are creating content

Unknown: 00:36:51

on or something but really thinking about the content and

Unknown: 00:36:55

just really thinking, what's a what's a topic that nobody else

Unknown: 00:36:59

has covered in quite the same way? Or maybe they've not really

Unknown: 00:37:03

tackled this angle or something. But I find that just the kind of

Unknown: 00:37:07

bog standard, it's annoying, but the bog standard, oh, I've just

Unknown: 00:37:10

focused focus all the audiograms. Personally, I like

Unknown: 00:37:14

find the work that while I'm talking to other podcasters, I

Unknown: 00:37:16

think they would say the same. But, you know, switching your

Unknown: 00:37:20

camera on and just talking to people about what a new podcast

Unknown: 00:37:23

episode can be better. But as with all of these things, I'm

Unknown: 00:37:27

sure there's people whose audiograms work brilliantly for

Unknown: 00:37:29

them. And ultimately, it comes back to you testing out what

Unknown: 00:37:33

works for you best and just doing more of what works. I wish

Unknown: 00:37:37

I could say this works for everyone. But yeah,

Unknown: 00:37:40

there is a bit of testing involved in different posts and

Unknown: 00:37:44

see what works well with your audience. And then it may differ

Unknown: 00:37:47

from platform to platform, like Instagram compared to LinkedIn,

Unknown: 00:37:52

different things work on on different audiences. I do like

Unknown: 00:37:55

putting some things in my stories that get quite a good

Unknown: 00:37:57

response, I find that my stories do more than my posts have more

Unknown: 00:38:02

interactions there. They don't do LinkedIn stories anymore.

Unknown: 00:38:07

Don't think but I do have. Sometimes my order grammes are

Unknown: 00:38:10

okay, sometimes they're not. Maybe it just depends on, on

Unknown: 00:38:14

who's on and like you say the subject. But I think that

Unknown: 00:38:18

keeping consistent with it, whatever it is, you're doing,

Unknown: 00:38:21

trying new things, keeping it consistent, as long as you're,

Unknown: 00:38:25

you're showing up and you're you're trying I think we do both

Unknown: 00:38:30

of those things out.

Unknown: 00:38:31

Yeah, we do like a base level of what we do. We don't you know,

Unknown: 00:38:33

the bog standard posts, we do them anyway. Even if you're

Unknown: 00:38:38

like, I wish I could get more and then we try. And on top of

Unknown: 00:38:40

that, we try and do things. Yeah, ageing, but also things

Unknown: 00:38:43

like I did a behind the scenes stuff. So I was recording some

Unknown: 00:38:47

podcasts, I was staying in a hotel, and I needed to record

Unknown: 00:38:50

some poker stuff. And I've forgotten a bit of my mic stand.

Unknown: 00:38:53

So I had to use a toilet roll to my nightstand. And I shared that

Unknown: 00:38:58

photo and sort of reminding people that you were a

Unknown: 00:39:01

podcaster. And you know, maybe showing them you know what

Unknown: 00:39:04

you're doing or what you're working on, if you edit your own

Unknown: 00:39:06

podcast, maybe even showing you editing some of it or I

Unknown: 00:39:10

sometimes if I've got guests coming on, you know just taking

Unknown: 00:39:13

a picture of the two of you or do a little bit of video and

Unknown: 00:39:16

talking about who's coming on and I think what you're what

Unknown: 00:39:19

you're saying what stories I think the reason it works is

Unknown: 00:39:21

because it's more personal and that's probably why my toilet

Unknown: 00:39:24

will it's more real, isn't it? And I think yeah, often we can

Unknown: 00:39:28

just get stuck into doing those kind of almost like automated

Unknown: 00:39:30

players were actually trying to think about how we can be a bit

Unknown: 00:39:33

more creative about it.

Unknown: 00:39:35

Yeah, absolutely. I do find that sometimes myself and you cry.

Unknown: 00:39:41

I'm trying to batch my content and batch my podcast so that I

Unknown: 00:39:44

don't get behind so that I you know those types of things and

Unknown: 00:39:48

you can get a little bit caught up with it being too mechanical

Unknown: 00:39:52

and you want to make sure that you keep it fresh and creative

Unknown: 00:39:55

and maybe just do some things off the hoof

Unknown: 00:39:59

in batches. sort of standard stuff, then you when you've got

Unknown: 00:40:02

a little bit of time, you can try and do just off the cuff

Unknown: 00:40:04

stuff, I think often Yeah,

Unknown: 00:40:06

yeah. Wow, I've learned so much from you say, thank you so much

Unknown: 00:40:11

for coming on. I wanted to just ask, well, you've offered lots

Unknown: 00:40:14

of advice throughout the podcast, is there any top your

Unknown: 00:40:18

top piece of advice that you would give out to somebody

Unknown: 00:40:22

perhaps starting or who is maybe, you know, a bit through

Unknown: 00:40:28

their podcasts and looking for a refresher, or they're starting

Unknown: 00:40:31

to fade out with their podcast.

Unknown: 00:40:34

So, so you're asking about people who've already have a

Unknown: 00:40:36

podcast rather than beginners, or

Unknown: 00:40:40

someone who's already got a podcast maybe, and they're maybe

Unknown: 00:40:44

losing interest or want a bit of a, because you've got that

Unknown: 00:40:47

experience with having changes with your podcast

Unknown: 00:40:51

yesterday, I can tell you if I had to change it. Yeah, I just

Unknown: 00:40:55

completely stopped mine, because I made a podcast on it, of

Unknown: 00:40:58

course. But I am, I just I got to the point where it wasn't

Unknown: 00:41:01

what I wasn't, wasn't like, I wasn't enjoying it anymore. But

Unknown: 00:41:03

I felt like, I was always really excited to interview people. And

Unknown: 00:41:08

I was really excited to put episodes out. But I got to the

Unknown: 00:41:12

point where it felt like it was starting to feel a little bit of

Unknown: 00:41:15

a chore, not too much, but a little bit. So in my case, it's

Unknown: 00:41:19

quite extreme, which is like I stopped, it started a new one,

Unknown: 00:41:21

which not every book changing up the format. So I did, I wish I

Unknown: 00:41:25

could do more of it, because I loved doing it. But I did like

Unknown: 00:41:28

some interviews with content creators, and it just took me so

Unknown: 00:41:31

long to edit them, they were so proud of them, but it will be so

Unknown: 00:41:34

long to edit. And I did a lot of editing myself, because I wanted

Unknown: 00:41:37

to get the content, right. But I, I actually switched it in for

Unknown: 00:41:41

short episodes a week, which sounds like a nightmare, because

Unknown: 00:41:44

I have this content planner that has you know, and the kind of

Unknown: 00:41:48

methodology behind it is full size of content four days a

Unknown: 00:41:50

week. So basically, I was publishing say, the equivalent

Unknown: 00:41:54

of four social media posts as podcast episodes. Now, that

Unknown: 00:41:58

might sound really scary, but actually, if they're all five

Unknown: 00:42:01

minutes long, and you've got a bit of a plan going so and that

Unknown: 00:42:06

just it just switches it up. It just gives you know gives your

Unknown: 00:42:08

listeners something and gives you actually something new to to

Unknown: 00:42:13

get stuck into. And if you're the kind of person like I did, I

Unknown: 00:42:15

actually hired a podcast coach to help to help me after about

Unknown: 00:42:19

six years, actually having somebody have a listen to help

Unknown: 00:42:23

you with your interview style sometimes, and because although

Unknown: 00:42:26

I was a journalist, I thought I was going to be pretty good at

Unknown: 00:42:28

it. Because I thought, Oh, I'm just asking people questions,

Unknown: 00:42:30

I'll be great. But actually, when you were I was a print

Unknown: 00:42:33

journalist. So you, part of what you do as a print journalist is

Unknown: 00:42:38

you take your time, and you can warm people up a little bit. And

Unknown: 00:42:41

then when you come in with your killer question, you you've had

Unknown: 00:42:46

some time to warm people up, whereas on broadcast, you have

Unknown: 00:42:48

to get in, get in there quick. So I had a little bit of help

Unknown: 00:42:53

just just to kind of help me to kind of make my questions

Unknown: 00:42:56

shorter to get in there. I listened a lot to listen to

Unknown: 00:43:00

podcasts and listen to how other people are asking questions I

Unknown: 00:43:03

listen to Oh, that was really good the way that they did that?

Unknown: 00:43:06

Or how did they get that? How did they get that person to say

Unknown: 00:43:09

that that's so good. So I think depending on what really

Unknown: 00:43:12

interests you, like, I'm really interested in interview, I'm

Unknown: 00:43:15

interested interested in that side of it. But it might be

Unknown: 00:43:18

about the format's or it might be that you could, you could

Unknown: 00:43:23

have you know, if you just do a straight interview, and it's

Unknown: 00:43:26

always the same every time maybe you could have some short solo

Unknown: 00:43:29

episodes instead. Or maybe you could switch it up. So you have

Unknown: 00:43:33

two minutes on this and five minutes on that. So I just think

Unknown: 00:43:36

it's if you're starting to feel a bit stale with but also the

Unknown: 00:43:39

topics as well, like I like doing, I like doing things on

Unknown: 00:43:42

more controversial topics. And that's probably not for a

Unknown: 00:43:45

beginner. Like I think once you feel confident in your own

Unknown: 00:43:47

voice, you could maybe tackle a few things which are a little

Unknown: 00:43:50

bit more divisive. I personally, I love doing those episodes,

Unknown: 00:43:55

because that really does help. I did one on and why I don't take

Unknown: 00:43:59

part in affiliate programmes.

Unknown: 00:44:01

Yeah, I saw that one. Yeah, I listened to that one.

Unknown: 00:44:03

And I did I did I actually did an audiogram for that one, it

Unknown: 00:44:06

did really well. But for those people who don't know, it's a

Unknown: 00:44:10

bit of a divisive topic in the online space. And for me,

Unknown: 00:44:14

they're a bit like MLMs like so if you you know, and it really

Unknown: 00:44:18

heartfelt I would never advise you saying anything that you

Unknown: 00:44:20

don't you don't agree with but those sort of episodes where

Unknown: 00:44:24

you're challenging something or you're really potentially

Unknown: 00:44:28

dividing people that can be really really good for your

Unknown: 00:44:31

listenership. But also people get to know you as well and, and

Unknown: 00:44:35

also I think sometimes bring a bit more of yourself into it as

Unknown: 00:44:38

well because I think sometimes we can get so focused on having

Unknown: 00:44:41

said you need to be strategic and like, Yeah, but actually

Unknown: 00:44:44

sometimes even I have to think to myself God, you know, there's

Unknown: 00:44:48

none of me and that I listened back to my and listened back to

Unknown: 00:44:51

episodes, the number of podcasters I know who don't

Unknown: 00:44:54

listen to podcast episodes I sometimes listen to about three

Unknown: 00:44:59

or four times which for For me makes me sound like egotistical.

Unknown: 00:45:02

But I actually listen critically. So that I can think,

Unknown: 00:45:06

Oh, do you know what I sound really boring there or my tone

Unknown: 00:45:08

of voice sounds boring. So I say I'm not interested in

Unknown: 00:45:11

podcasting, but clearly. Yeah, just, I think in seeing where

Unknown: 00:45:16

you could improve, I think can help a lot.

Unknown: 00:45:18

Yeah, that's I, I edit my own podcast episodes. And I do

Unknown: 00:45:23

listen back. And sometimes halfway through recording, if

Unknown: 00:45:26

I've thought, Oh, I'm not sure whether that's going the right

Unknown: 00:45:28

way, and want to listen to my tone of voice. And to start

Unknown: 00:45:32

with, I did feel like, Oh, I'm putting on a voice here at this

Unknown: 00:45:34

point. I don't want to put on a voice here. And I think it can

Unknown: 00:45:38

be really interesting, especially, as well, when you're

Unknown: 00:45:41

starting out as valuable as it is, if you're, you know, more

Unknown: 00:45:44

established, if you may have just found yourself getting into

Unknown: 00:45:47

a bit of a rut with, with certain things. I really like

Unknown: 00:45:50

what you said about getting a podcast coach and looking at

Unknown: 00:45:53

interview techniques. Because I, I do struggle with interviews, I

Unknown: 00:45:58

find a worry that am I going to ask all the questions, have I

Unknown: 00:46:01

gone too much off on a tangent? I do get a bit nervous before I

Unknown: 00:46:05

do interviews and things like that. So I think that if that is

Unknown: 00:46:08

something that you struggle with, that's is worth looking at

Unknown: 00:46:11

that different techniques, and funnily enough, I was listening

Unknown: 00:46:14

to a Captivate podcast episode about being a guest. And they

Unknown: 00:46:19

were sharing some tips and advice about how you can if you

Unknown: 00:46:23

get nervous about being a guest on someone else's podcast, it

Unknown: 00:46:26

was really interesting.

Unknown: 00:46:27

Yeah, yeah. And I think if you are listening, and you're

Unknown: 00:46:32

thinking about starting a podcast, but you're nervous, one

Unknown: 00:46:35

way to get used to your own voice is to be a guest on other

Unknown: 00:46:38

people's podcasts. And all you need to do is have expertise,

Unknown: 00:46:42

you don't need to have your own podcasts, you don't need a

Unknown: 00:46:44

special microphone or anything like that, you know, being at a

Unknown: 00:46:47

quiet room and wearing headphones, most people are

Unknown: 00:46:50

happy with that if you've got good, you know, good content to

Unknown: 00:46:52

share. But that can help you because somebody else is guiding

Unknown: 00:46:56

you, you, you know You, the more you do, you'll get you'll get

Unknown: 00:47:01

more experience. So that can help as well if you're nervous

Unknown: 00:47:03

about starting it, but But yeah, I think that it's a mistake to

Unknown: 00:47:08

kind of start a podcast and think, Oh, I know it all. And

Unknown: 00:47:11

you know, I've been focusing for years, and I still sometimes

Unknown: 00:47:14

isn't. Again, like you know, and also not to worry about things

Unknown: 00:47:20

that we worry about, I think are not the important things like I

Unknown: 00:47:22

start a lot of sentences with so or actually, they're not the

Unknown: 00:47:29

things that yeah, it can be really jarring if you're doing

Unknown: 00:47:31

it every sentence. But often. The bits that could really help

Unknown: 00:47:34

us are more about you know, getting to the question faster

Unknown: 00:47:37

or not missing I my favourite one of my favourite podcast

Unknown: 00:47:40

houses and Michael Oh, god, what's his own Social Media

Unknown: 00:47:44

Marketing World? Die, the Social Media Marketing podcast, I

Unknown: 00:47:48

forget his name, but

Unknown: 00:47:49

I'll find it and link in the show notes.

Unknown: 00:47:52

He always loves Michael Stelzner. He always asks the

Unknown: 00:47:55

question that I want to, I think, oh, but what about that?

Unknown: 00:47:59

And then he asks a question. And sometimes when I'm listening to

Unknown: 00:48:01

myself back, I think, Oh, I didn't. I didn't ask the

Unknown: 00:48:05

question that everybody wanted to ask

Unknown: 00:48:07

me thinking, Yeah,

Unknown: 00:48:09

this can seem a lot when you're first starting. But I think

Unknown: 00:48:14

these are things good practice that you can put in place from

Unknown: 00:48:17

the very first podcast. So yeah,

Unknown: 00:48:20

absolutely. I think that is important. And then also

Unknown: 00:48:22

thinking about still thinking about future things for

Unknown: 00:48:26

yourself. If you are starting out, and you think, Well, I'd

Unknown: 00:48:28

love to be here. But I know that I'm here right now. What can I

Unknown: 00:48:32

do to help evolve myself over X amount of time to get to the

Unknown: 00:48:37

place I want to be? And like we've said about barriers that

Unknown: 00:48:41

the perfectionism thing? Like, if I'd have been too

Unknown: 00:48:45

perfectionist about my podcast, I don't think I would have

Unknown: 00:48:47

started one about, you know, talking to different people and

Unknown: 00:48:51

my voice and all those kinds of things that you have. But you

Unknown: 00:48:55

have to start somewhere. And once you started, you can only

Unknown: 00:48:58

get better from there and out.

Unknown: 00:49:00

Exactly. And just remember, everybody hates their voice.

Unknown: 00:49:02

Everybody is critical. Everybody listens back and thinks, Oh, why

Unknown: 00:49:06

did I say that? Or? That was a stupid question. Or I shouldn't

Unknown: 00:49:09

have asked that question. And all we can do is, is just try

Unknown: 00:49:13

and get better. And you will like if you keep showing up and

Unknown: 00:49:16

doing it, you will get better.

Unknown: 00:49:17

Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. And I couldn't suspect we could talk

Unknown: 00:49:21

for hours on podcasts. I've got so many other questions for you.

Unknown: 00:49:24

But I'll finish it there. But thank you so much for coming on.

Unknown: 00:49:28

It's been really great. And you've had some really great

Unknown: 00:49:30

advice and insights to offer for my guests. And I hope everyone

Unknown: 00:49:32

enjoys this episode. Would you like to just quickly let us know

Unknown: 00:49:35

where we can find you?

Unknown: 00:49:37

Yeah, so the best place to find me is my website, which is Janet

Unknown: 00:49:39

marie.co.uk. And if you want to connect with me on social media,

Unknown: 00:49:43

I'm everywhere because it's my thing, but Instagram is the best

Unknown: 00:49:47

place and I'm asked Jan Murray, UK.

Unknown: 00:49:50

Brilliant. I will link all those in the show notes so everyone

Unknown: 00:49:52

can find you super easily. So thanks again, Janet. Bye. Thank

Unknown: 00:49:56

you. Thanks so much. For listening, if you've enjoyed

Unknown: 00:50:01

today's episode, please like, share and subscribe. Your

Unknown: 00:50:04

support means so much to me. If there's a question or topic

Unknown: 00:50:07

you'd like covering then I'd love to hear from you. Find the

Unknown: 00:50:09

podcast on Instagram at Rachel Botfield and drop me a DM till