What does it look like to live a life of purpose, even when the path is wildly unexpected?

In this inspiring episode of the Collide Podcast, we sit down with Liz Bohannon to talk about finding purpose, pursuing passion, and making a meaningful impact in the world. Liz shares her unlikely journey from journalist to founder of an ethical fashion brand, offering insights on social justice, creative leadership, risk-taking, and empowering women. Whether you’re dreaming big, navigating uncertainty, or trying to figure out how to live a life that matters, this episode will remind you that your impact doesn’t have to be perfect to be powerful.

Meet Liz Bohannon

Liz is the founder of Sseko Designs, an ethical fashion brand that provides employment and educational opportunities for women in East Africa. Her work in social enterprise has been featured on Shark Tank, Bloomberg Business, and Ingram’s 30 Under 30. Liz is passionate about gender equity, creative leadership, and using business as a force for good. Her story is a powerful example of what happens when you choose courage over comfort.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• How to turn an unexpected path into a purposeful mission
• How Beginner’s Pluck™ can help you reframe failure, spark curiosity, and rediscover your sense of purpose
• What it takes to lead with creativity and conviction
• Why making mistakes might just be part of your calling

How This Episode Will Encourage You

If you’ve ever felt like your story is too messy, too average, or too uncertain to matter, this episode will reignite your belief that God can use your exact path for powerful good. You’ll be reminded that purpose isn’t about perfection—it’s about showing up with courage, creativity, and heart.

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Welcome to the Collide Podcast. We're a growing community of everyday chicks colliding with Jesus in our mess, our pain, our joy, and our stories.

We value showing up as we truly are. So that's what you'll find here.

Walls and masks being torn down so that we can allow Jesus to meet us where we truly are and hear about other women doing the same. We can't wait to collide with you.

What I'm saying is that I think there's two ways that we can pursue dreams. We can pursue them out of a sense of striving, in the sense that, like, I need this for my own significance. I need this.

I need to accomplish this so I can prove that I matter. And then we can pursue big dreams out of a sense of overflow.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast. I'm Willow Weston, the founder and director of Collide, and I'm super excited today to have Liz Bohannon on the podcast.

Liz is the founder of Sseko Designs, an ethical fashion brand that works to educate and empower women in East Africa by providing employment and educational opportunities. Liz is not only the founder of this amazing company, but she's also wife to Ben and mama to three little ones.

She's the author of the fabulous book Beginner's Pluck, and you can also find her on the Forbes top 20 speakers list. Liz's work has been featured in Vogue, Redbook, O Magazine, Shark Tank, and Good Morning America. This woman is inspiring.

Thanks so much for having me, Willow. What an honor to be here.

Yeah, I have a jillion questions. I want to start with Sseko. It's an ethical fashion brand that works to educate and empower women.

Can you help our audience understand the important work you guys are pulling off and how this unconventional journey that you've been on, how it led you to starting Sseko?

Yeah, absolutely. So, as you mentioned, Sseko is a socially conscious fashion brand. Our core mission is to help contribute.

Contribute to creating equal opportunity as it relates to education and job opportunities for women and girls all across the globe?

And so, to kind of take you back a little bit, I'll keep it relatively short, but long story short, I moved to East Africa pretty soon after graduating from graduate school because I had this realization that I was really interested in and passionate about, knew a lot about issues that were facing Women and girls living in extreme poverty. But my, I didn't have any relationships, my life, my community, my friendships.

I didn't have a single friend who was a girl who grew up in that context or lived experience. And so I decided to move to Uganda really with pretty much the primary goal of making friends and building community and having relationships.

And through that process, really, you know, organically, because I was pretty much just wandering around.

I ended up meeting an incredible group of young women in between high school and university who were really academically gifted and tested into college but couldn't afford to go. And so I started Sseko.

I mean I originally actually, if I'm going to give you the full story, I started a non profit, kind of a sponsorship based charity and really did a lot of digging and thinking and honestly kind of had my world turned upside down when I realized like, oh, actually I think the most effective and dignifying frankly solution in this specific scenario is to create a marketplace, dignified, sustainable, economically legit solution to this challenge of like we need to create jobs.

Really just deeply believing and 10 years later believing it now more than ever, that one of the things that, that ties us humans together is this desire like we're all our healthiest, best selves when we can come to work and when we can contribute and when we can take care of our own families and feel really empowered in the system that we live and work in.

And so I wanted to create a business that would employ people that would be honestly really mutually beneficial, that we kind of get away from the charity aid model, not all by any means that can really kind of set up this dynamic of like the giver and the receiver, you know, the benefactor and the beneficiary. Because I really don't think at our core that's how God designs us to live in community.

And so started a business, started a chicken farm that failed, ended up designing some strappy funky sandals and taught three young women how to make those sandals, Mary, Mercy and Rebecca.

And those young women basically made like a promise to them, said hey, if you make these sandals for the next nine months, I promise that you'll go to college next year. And they were like okay. And I was like okay. And then I came back home to the US and I started selling sandals out of the back of my car.

And that was about 10 years ago. So Sseko has evolved quite a bit. We're no longer just a sandal company, we're a lifestyle women's fashion brand. So we do jewelry.

I'm wearing a cashmere shaw that we make. I, you know, we do apparel, we do footwear, we do beautiful leather handbags. We work all over the country.

Excuse me, all over the world now, in Uganda and Kenya and Ethiopia and Peru, in India, in every country, partnering with fair trade artisan groups, really working alongside of them to use and highlight their skills and artisanship and then connect them with our western market and sell their products. And we've enabled hundreds of female scholars across the globe now to continue on to university and become leaders in their career.

And 100% of that is funded through our business. So we don't have a charity, we don't have a nonprofit arm.

We've just said let's just be a great business that bakes social justice and generosity and dignity kind of into just how we do plain vanilla business, which is make beautiful stuff, sell beautiful products, but do it in a way that really honors and creates dignity in relationship at every step along the way. Wow.

It, it is so crazy to hear your story and I've heard you speak and I've heard you share it before, but to listen to you shared, I have a jillion questions I want to ask you.

I kind of want to rewind back to the beginning a little bit because, yeah, you talk about having this passion, but almost feeling like you didn't have street cred, like you had a passion, but you didn't even know people who you had a passion for. And so you go over and you decide you just want to be friends with these people.

You get to know some of them, you begin to understand the obstacles and, and the struggles in the system that they live in and, and how hard it can be just to take care of them and their families. And you decide like some people would make that trip and they wouldn't come up with this, but you decide, I want to start a business.

I mean, that's a big, a big vision. Did that feel overwhelmin? I don't even know where to start. I mean, how, how did your, your idea of what business you would start come to you?

Yeah, there were times where it felt overwhelming, but honestly, it was so organic.

Like, I didn't start out with the vision to build a multinational, multi million dollar global fashion brand that was going to create an impact in thousands of people's lives.

Right.

I think if I had started out with that, yes, I would have been very overwhelmed. All I started out with was I want to help Mary Mercy and Rebecca bridge this gap between high school and university. And here's my best idea.

For how I can make this happen. Even still, there were days where I was super overwhelmed by that. Right? Like, how to. How to make sandals, where to source the materials.

And it was all at such a low level. It was. So, I mean, I look back on it now, and of course, it's like 10 years in. Operationally, we're in a very different place.

The complexity, the quality, the rigor is all very, very different. But. But so looking back at what we started with, it was so small. It was so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the right word would be.

Like, not sophisticated. And even still, it felt really overwhelming, right? Of, like, I don't know, how do you find a leather supplier? But I. But I do think.

And I. I'm really passionate about. And I actually. I wrote a book called Beginner's Pluck.

And in the book, one of the kind of core concepts is this idea of dreaming small, like letting yourself actually start small, but then taking it seriously. Because I find that sometimes we feel this pressure to have this big, big dream or this big vision.

And what ends up happening is people either get really discouraged because they're like, I don't have a big dream. How do you even get the big dream in the first place? Or they have a dream and they're like, I don't know. Is it big enough? Is it cool enough?

Is it sexy enough? Is it impressive enough? It's been all this energy, like, evaluating it, and it can just become really overwhelming and paralyzing.

And I just really believe that if. If we just let our small dream give them the gusto and the energy, that I really think that they deserve that. That actually compels us into action.

And then that action leads to one thing, which leads to another thing, which then, you know, creates the sense of, like, momentum. And that was really. That was really my experience. And I think. I think to your point about relationships, yeah, that's a big thing. It's.

It's like, it's very easy, especially when you think about these issues in the world, right? It's so easy to just want to intellectualize everything and have a viewpoint and a stand and an opinion on everything. Right.

And I think opinions are great. I'm a very opinionated person. I have a lot.

But I think there's something really important about going in, learning and living in the context of relationships. You know, it was like, I was just having a conversation with a friend, and it was about racism, right?

And, like, there's all, you know, there's Theories and I'm against this theory and I'm for this theory and this thought. And again, I'm like a very like my dream world is sitting around and like talking about ideas and debating things.

But I also feel like we have to say like, okay, how does this affect my community? Like what a. What are the people in my life that are actually really affected by this? How does this sit with them?

You know, like if I were in the context of relationship and it wasn't just like my ideas, my opinions and really again not saying that those things don't matter, but I think it's so, so important that if we, we care about something. I've kind of come up with this like somewhat of a, a little rule for myself lately.

Even when I think about how I use media and social media, then I'm like, you know, if I'm not doing something with it in my real life, if it is not changing my day to day life and I'm not like acting on this thing, I don't know if I'm going to talk about it. I'm just going to learn about it and I'm going to listen and I'm going to lean in.

But I think we have a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of talking, a lot of opinions being defended or being fought for. And at the end of the day it's.

But how does that actually translate into how you're living out your life and how you're learning and leaning in, in the real world in the context of relationships and community?

And I just, I think that's really important and I think there are, there needs to be that component to kind of maintain our spirit of curiosity, our openness and really like our sense of, of shared humanity.

I, I love all of that and I love that you, you've done such a good job and I have so many questions I want to ask you that you bring up in your book. But what you said a few min. That you started with this sense of here's my best idea. What a great place to start. It's like here, here's my best idea.

As you leaned into that, what did you start to see happen in the lives of those three new friends that you made?

I mean, well, for the first like nine months. Not, I mean they're just hanging out making sandals. I'm hanging out in the US Trying to sling sandals.

You know, I think, I think both of us, all of us, Mary, Mercy and Rebecca and I could probably look at those nine months in hindsight as a Pretty pivotal moment in our lives, right, for me to go be a social entrepreneur and build this company, for them to continue on to university and have access to these opportunities, Each of them pursuing wildly different, really impactful careers. Now in East Africa, I think in hindsight, we can all look and say, like, oh, yeah, that was. That was pretty pivotal. We all. And.

And frankly, they took a risk on me just as much as I took a risk on them. Like, here's some random. You know, I'd been friends with them for a couple of months.

I think it took a lot of trust for them to say, like, yeah, well, we're gonna stay here at the school for the nine months that we normally would have gone home.

We're gonna stay here, we're gonna stay together, we're gonna make these sandals, and we're gonna, like, trust that this woman that we only met a couple months ago is going to go home and do what she says. It's important for me that we don't miss that. Right. That it wasn't just me taking a risk or me being brave. Like, I think that they.

We all kind of entered in with this spirit of trust and openness and curiosity, and, like, let's just kind of all try it together. And there wasn't, if I'm being honest, like, an immediate, a dramatic life change for any of us.

I don't think, again, in hindsight, I think we would look at it as, like, very pivotal. But I say that only because I think that's like, how we work as humans, right?

Like, our stories typically, like, evolve over time, and they're complex and they're nuanced, and there's good days and bad days. And, like, very rarely do we have these, like, wildly dramatic, transformational before and after, you know, like, makeover experiences.

And I think when we focus on that and when we want that, and of course, we want. We want that because we're like, I want to see it. I want to see the change. I want to see the impact. I want it to be dramatic. I want to feel it.

That sometimes I think that that can.

It can, like, rob us of actually, like, seeing and taking joy in and being satisfied with, like, change that happens over time and kind of, like, trust in the process. And I see a lot of people.

I say that because I. I see a lot of people that I feel, like, get into, I don't know, social impact work, something where they've been told, like, hey, if you do this, you're doing something good in the world. They get really Disillusioned, fast, because it's like, I'm not seeing fast.

I'm not seeing change fast enough, or it's not dramatic enough, or it' you know, or there's complexity to it. It's like poverty. Are you kidding me? Poverty is like a pretty complex thing, you know, like, it's a big, big, big systemic issue.

And I deeply believe that the model that Sseko is using, again, I have no better ideas. Like, I am, like, of all of the research, of all of the things that I've done, of all of my lived experience, I just believe so fully.

And it's pretty cool that, like, 10 years later, I can say I believe just as much in our. I believe way more in our model today than I did even 10 years ago. And I think that that's like, I. That's pretty amazing.

However, I think it's so easy to kind of, like, want to see the change so fast that we just, like, get disillusioned or we realize it's more complex. And it's like, yeah, of course it's complex.

Like, of course there's tons of nuance and there's tons of gray areas and there's things that work and there's, you know, things that don't work. And for every. For every benef benefit and good thing, you.

You've always got to be asking the question of, like, what's the unintended consequence that might be happening here? And be willing to kind of ask those questions.

And I think if we go into the journey knowing, like, that's part of the beauty and that's part of the process, we're going to be way better suited. I think if we go in being like, oh, there's a magic bullet out there. I think I found it. It's going to happen. It's going to happen quick.

I'm going to be able to see it really dramatically. When that doesn't happen, we lose steam, we get discouraged, we get disillusioned, we.

We become critical and we just kind of like, like, throw our hands up and give up.

And so that's why I think I'm so passionate about, like, sharing my real journey of, like, well, I don't, you know, I've just, like, going all the way back to your question that you asked, like, 15 minutes ago before I went on a giant monologue, you know, of like, I don't know if I could have answered that question in the midst of it, in those first nine months, like, how have Mary Mercy and Rebecca changed? Well, I Don't know. I don't think I could have answered that any more clearly than how I had changed in those nine months. Hindsight 20 20.

And I can look back and see a lot of the development and growth that happened for all of us during that season, but it wasn't immediate and it wasn't obvious.

You were recently named top three transformation leader by John Maxwell and Bloomberg Business Business Week. Name Sseko top social enterprise. I mentioned earlier Forbes named you one of top 20 public speakers.

I. I'm saying all this because before you founded Sseko, before you were a headline speaker, before, this was the story that you could now see before God unfolded this story. I mean, do you look back ever and just pinch yourself?

I mean, part of why I want to ask this question is you become a voice that speaks into people's lives so that they can tap into their passion and their potential and their purpose and make an impact in this world.

And I think a lot of people, at least in the work that we do here at Kolide, a lot of women look at your story now and, and they don't understand the fight and the sacrifice and the trust that those three women gave you and the trust that you gave them and probably sleepless nights and moments where you were like, why am I pedaling sandals out of my car? And all the things that your family has had to give up for all of this.

I think a lot of women look at where someone else is at almost as though they've arrived and feel like they're, they have their mindset on. That's what I want. But they don't see the story that's unfolded over the course of so much time to get there.

So, I mean, do you ever pin yourself that this is your story? That's part of my question.

But then another part of my question is, is what do you want to say to women who want to use their lives to do amazing things, but they want kind of like the story they see in you now, but they don't necessarily want the story have having to pedal the sandals and make the sacrifice and, and go get street cred?

Yeah. I'll answer your second, the second part of your question first, and then I'll answer the pinch me question next.

The second part of your question is like, I am so wildly passionate about telling the whole story.

If you read my book, people will read my book and be like, whoa, you really shared a lot about the highs and the lows and got pretty real about your lack of experience or the mistakes that you Made or the low moments in. In the journey. And I am so intentional about that because I'm very aware that people are not intentionally. But I think they are.

They are unintentionally comparing my highlight reel to their everyday scenes. Like, you see your everyday. You only see my highlight reel, you know, unless I'm intentionally showing you behind the scenes of that.

And we can't do that. And so one, I. I try to be really honest about my journey and about how hard it was and how at times demoralizing or frustra.

Three steps forward, you know, four steps back through. When I speak through my book. I started a podcast called Plucking Up. We just started our second season of the podcast and the entire.

Because I was like, I want to do this for myself, but my whole goal for the podcast is just to get other really successful people to do the same. And most of them are way more successful than I am too, by the way. And be like, okay, let's get behind the highlight reel.

Tell us how it actually happened. How hard did you work? How did you start? And then really focus. Half the podcast episode is focused on, like, take us to a dark moment.

Like, take us to a moment where it didn't work when you were rejected, when you felt lost, when you felt demoralized, when you made a huge mistake.

That still sometimes if you think about it, makes you blush or sweat or keeps you up, you know, and then help us understand how you clearly, that didn't stop you. Clearly that wasn't the end. Even if in the moment it felt like the end.

So help us take us back there and just invite people to really share those parts of their story. And. And I have found it's building this just community of people that realize, like, you're not alone.

If, if you're feeling a little lost, if you're feeling demoralized, like, I mean, I've had just like, it's crazy when you start talking to people. Like, I had Ariana Huffington on and it was like, she's. Now she's written 15 books. You know, she's has to be one of the world's most wealthy women.

She started an incredibly, like, successful media company that was acquired, I think for $350 million. Right. She's a bunch of her books have been like global bestsellers.

Her first book, book, you have to fact check me on this because the episode was a couple months ago, but I think it was like she got rejected 36 times. She went to 36 publishers that rejected her, but she didn't stop, right? And it's like so many of us would.

And I do think that there is a level of like, you have to ask yourself, like, well, how bad do you want it? And like, are you someone who is willing to get 36 rejections to get the one? Yes.

And, and, and if so, the likelihood that you get it is just like, infinitely greater.

But if not also being really honest with yourself, and you know, I think we can tend towards like a jealousy or we're beating ourselves up, or I wish I had her life or her accomplishments. But then if you're being really honest, it's like, but would, but, but do you want it bad enough that you would do that?

Like, what, what are you willing to give up? Like, what income security, what time, what energy, what, like ego, right?

Because the process of becoming successful in any capacity is like, pretty brutal on your ego because you have to fail 99 times before you get to your success.

Like, I just, it's so, so, so, so rare that people are just like, yeah, I tried a thing and I was good at it and people loved it and they responded to it. And so it's like, there's a lot of self work that goes into.

I'm gonna keep putting work out, I'm gonna keep showing up, I'm gonna keep hitting publish, I'm gonna keep going to the little markets, though I wasn't successful yesterday or the day before, the day before that. And I'm just gonna keep getting a little bit better every single day.

But I really do think that that also, like, if you're willing to ask yourself that question, it can kind of catapult you out of your, like, pity party for yourself and be like, well, are you willing? Like, will you go get rejected 36 times? And to me is like, really, it's really motivating and inspiring of like, you have to choose.

You get one or the other. You get the highlight reel and the amazing opportunities and the fulfillment and the like, energy and the pinch moments.

But you have to be willing to say yes to all of the junk and the garbage.

It's not really garbage, but it feels like garbage when it's happening to you, when no one's answering your emails, when you're getting rejected, when everything you do feels like it's breaking and it's not working and it's not getting the momentum that you thought it would. Those are a package deal. And you decide, do you want that or do you not? Do you want to play it safe?

And I don't even frankly, mean to say that in like a disparaging way of just like, do you want to choose a life that's a little bit more known, where there's a little bit more security, where there's a little bit less rejection and big failures that are really loud, that everybody can see and, and probably sacrifice some of the really beautiful things that come with all of the risk taking and each and every one of us, like, there's no right decision, but I think we have to be realistic about how they, they usually go together and that we're making kind of a choice between those two things.

To answer your first part of that question about the pinch me moment, usually, no, because just like, know as a kid when you're a mom and you see your kids growing, it's like it's not until the Google photo from two years ago pops up and you're like, oh my gosh, she used to be a baby and now he's big. You know, like when it happens incrementally, it's harder to recognize. But I will say for me, it happens probably the most when.

So about four years ago, we transitioned our model away from a traditional retail model to a direct sales model.

So now instead of selling the product just online or through retail stores is we have a network of thousands of women here in the United States that sell the product.

And in so many different capacities, we have women who are earning a very legitimate full time income and building businesses and they're true entrepreneurs.

And then we have women that are like, hey, I want to host three shows a season with my mom and her friends and my aunt and her friends and my college friends. And I want to be a part of this thing and then everything in between.

So a really wide range of involvement, investment, commitment, all of that stuff. But all of them together make up what we call the Sseko Fellows.

And there are definitely moments like it's so easy for me to remember being alone and being like, it's me. It's me and my computer setting up this web shop.

Like, it's me, myself and I like, it's me and my husband at this like, dinky, like fair trade craft show where we've been like sitting out in the sun for like eight hours and haven't sold a single pair of sandals or hosting a trunk show that nobody came to. Or just like this sense that it's like if I don't wake up every day and share the SAO story, it doesn't get shared today.

And now I do pretty often have this pinch Me moment with my sisters, the Sseko fellows, where I'm like, at any given moment, like, there is someone right now, it's, you know, 2:30 in the afternoon on a Friday.

There is someone in the United States of America that is on their computer on Facebook live sharing the Sseko story right now and sharing it with their friends and styling their friends and probably talking about her Sseko sister. So when you become a fellow, you have the opportunity. We just had match day this week.

You can take a quiz and get matched with one of our production team members in Uganda. And just to create like, a more personal connection. So she's, she's on Facebook right now.

She's telling her friends maybe about, you know, her, her Sseko sister Susan, who's in Uganda and her Sseko story, and she's, you know, showing her favorite products from our spring line. And, and that can just bring me to my knees. Like, that is so humbling and it's so energizing. And it's so.

That is so pinch me to be like, it's not, it's not just me anymore. Like, there's a whole community of women who. It's not just my story anymore. It's not Liz's Sseko story.

It's like Janine has a Sseko story and Carissa has a Sseko story.

And, you know, like, thinking about the thousands of women who have adopted this story who have made it their own and who are carrying it forth and built, building it in beautiful different ways and introducing it to communities that I have no access to or, you know, whatever it is. And that it's so exciting.

And when something challenging happens in our community, like, I hear of a need or like something that's going on, it is the most amazing feeling in the world to be like, you know, I have like, thousands of women that I think could get behind this and we could probably make a pretty big difference together if we did. And so something that, like, if it were just me on my own would feel so overwhelming and like, what could I possibly do?

And then being like, but me and my Sseko sisters together, we could probably, we could probably make a dent. And that is really magical. That is definitely. Every time that happens, I pinch myself pretty big time.

I'm pinching myself just listening to your story. I love that you invite us into the whole story and not just, just the, the success part. I love that you're.

You're inviting us into that and so we can begin to believe that there's a bigger story unfolding for our lives. You mentioned, you know, you're interviewing people on your podcast and you're inviting them to reflect on their own personal pluck ups.

I'd love for you to define that.

Word, by the way.

But also you. You asked them kind of to take you to a place where they had a dark moment, maybe where they felt like giving up.

Can you take us to a place where you had a moment like that and what it looked like for you to move through that moment and get to the other side of it?

Oh, my gosh. There have been. Well, my definition of a pluckup is really like anything that just felt crappy. Like, really a mistake.

Like, you made the wrong call, you did the wrong thing, or a rejection or just like a season of mistakes and rejection. Feeling lost. Like, a lot of the time, it's just like an aimless business. Being out of integrity with yourself.

Of like, you know, we've had guests that have shared about that.

Of like, I stayed in a situation for too long because I was scared and it didn't align with my values, but I couldn't leave, you know, whatever it was, any season that you just look back on and you're like, that. That's not in the highlight reel. That was hard. That was difficult, that was challenging.

That made me question myself and my ability and my, you know, and my worth. That is definitely like, yeah, not. Not gonna make the highlight reel, if you will.

And in my book, I. I include a lot of my seasons of pluck ups, you know, and I like, tell. I mean, there's a couple stories that just, like, come to mind as some of the most op. I mean, just some really.

Some probably pretty dramatic, like, moments where it's like, in the first couple years of Sseko, I remember we had a shipment that got delayed by like, four months, like, really, really, really late. We were such a baby business. I think it was the first container, which is a big deal, sending a container.

You know, we used to, like, air freight stuff. And it was like, we made enough to send an entire container, but there was thousands of pairs of sandals in it. And it was delayed so long.

Turns out that the container had leaked at the port in Mombasa.

Long story short, by the time we got the container, it was just filled completely with moldy sandals that we didn't think we were going to be able to sell. Oh, yeah. And I don't even know I share that story in the book.

I don't even know if I share the backstory of, like, we were losing so much money because we didn't have product to sell. Like, there have been moments, this one included, where, like, my husband and I have had to make the decision.

Like, we literally emptied out our personal savings account, and we're like, the only way that we can keep the lights on is by, like, we're gonna hope. Hope that this pays off. Like, we're.

We're gonna hope that these sandals arrive and then we can sell them and that we're gonna make this money back multiple times in our career. And some, frankly, they weren't that long ago, right? Where you're just like. And. And you have these moments where you're like, what am I doing?

Like, what are we doing? Like, this is too much. It's too heavy. It's like, it's too much risk. I've made a bad decision. I've, like. And, you know, you're playing out.

What if this doesn't work out and I'm gonna hate myself? And, you know, you' whole life as an entrepreneur is just this, like, you know, risk calculation that you're, like, constantly doing.

And for me, I would say my journey, like, a lot of my pluck. So.

So there's seasons like that, and then there's other seasons of just really, like, stuff that happens where as a leader, I feel like I. I make a wrong decision.

I say something that doesn't necessarily align with my truest values or that hurts somebody in a way that I feel really bummed out by because of just my lack of intention or understanding or. And I would totally be lying if I said there aren't times where I just. I can just spiral. I just spiral into, like, what are you doing?

Who do you think you are? Like, and. And just really start to question my worth, my validity as a leader. Like, and, And.

And I think it's so important for, you know, now I'm like, teaching and training and coaching all of these women who are, like, building their businesses. And I do.

I think that there's this perception that you get to a certain point in your career and you're just like, I gave up caring about what people think about me. And maybe that's true for some people.

And if you're there and you're that self evolved and you are that rooted in your own identity and worth that, like, hearing, you know, hard criticism about yourself doesn't affect you at all. Like, good on you.

I mean, either you're a sociopath and you're probably like, well, I would avoid that person, or you're like, way super Evolved in your own emotional, like, you know, and spiritual journey, I would say. And again, if that's you, great. That's not me. And I'm 10, 12 years into this journey.

And, you know, it was like, I actually interviewed Matthew McConaughey on my podcast last week. It hasn't aired yet, but I interviewed him last week, and he's like, I'm 50 years old and I've made. I can't remember even how 50 movies.

I can't remember how many movies he's made. And he was just like, I would be lying if I said when I read a bad, Like a really scathing review, there isn't a moment where I'm like, that sucks.

Or like, yeah, maybe that is true. I didn't think about how that, you know, whatever it is. And I just think it's important that we, like, normalize those experiences as humans and.

Because what we don't want to do is beat ourselves up for beating ourselves up. You know, where it's like, oh, we all have reactions to things. Reactions are the things that I think we actually can't really control.

It's like our physiological reaction, right? Like when I get bad feedback, when somebody tell. And this is in my business, this is in my company, this is in my marriage, right?

When my husband's like, I need to talk to you about something. This did not feel good. Or, why didn't you do this? Whatever what happens, my heart rate increases. I can feel my face getting a little bit red.

I can feel my adrenaline start to rush it, you know, to start to rush. Like, my. The part of my brain that is responsible for fight or flight starts to light up, and it's like, you're in danger. You're in stranger.

You don't want to hear this feedback. This isn't going to be good. This isn't going to be fun, right?

That's my reaction, that I don't really have control over my response because I'm a human being. And.

And we actually have control over our actual responses to our physiological reaction can definitely evolve over time and should evolve over time, right? Like, do I take a deep breath? Do I step back?

Do I ask for a minute, Do I say a prayer and remind myself of my, like, rootedness and worthiness and being made in the image of the divine before I defend myself or before I lash out or before I cry, whatever it is. And so I think it's like.

But to beat myself up for even just feeling that way in the first place, I just think is like, Pretty, it's pretty counterproductive. I was actually hanging out with a group of girlfriends on Wednesday night. It's my women's group that I meet with every single week.

And we were just talking about how the wisdom of self acceptance in the sense of like even accepting your harder emotions. Like instead of beating yourself up for like why are you feeling jealous? You should just be grateful, right?

Having self compassion and just saying like, oh hi jealousy. Like I see you, you know, I see you and like listen, you can't drive, you can't drive the bus. I'm not gonna let you take over right now.

I'm not gonna let you steal my gratitude. But I have compassion. Like I see and acknowledge you and like I'm gonna try to dig in a little bit deeper and like, why are you here?

What's really going on? Why are you showing up right now?

But just like the w of being compassionate on ourselves and I mean, you know, I'm as you are, I'm a mother and so I think a lot about like how am I teaching my kids how to deal with their, their own emotions and like really wanting them to also believe that. It's like, hey, you can't respond to every emotion that you want, however you want. It's not going to work out well for you or anybody else.

But you can feel those things. There are actually no bad feelings. There are no bad feelings. There are bad responses to your feelings. But like let's sit with it for a little bit.

One of the analog that I use with my, with my big, big, big feeling four year old is just to try to like, let's imagine ourselves sitting on a riverbank and just like notice that feeling. Like you're really angry right now. Like there's, there's your anger and just like let it, like can we just.

Let it float by?

We'll acknowledge that it's here. It's a valid feeling. We're not going to let it take us over. Like we're not going to let it drive the ship. We're not going to let it consume us.

But there's, but we can acknowledge it and we can say it's not bad, it's not wrong. You shouldn't feel ashamed for feeling that way.

And I'm still to this day, you know, as at the point in my journey that I am that that is a lesson that I am continually reminding myself of.

Liz I love that you normalize failure. You normalize how hard big life making impact, all the hardship that comes with it, all the Work all, all the fight. I love all of that.

I think you describe you as a journalist gone shoemaker. And I would add, you're a shoemaker gone social business entrepreneur, badass lady leader, influencer and world changer.

And I think a lot of times women, they do this thing like, I'm just a journalist or I'm just a mom, or I'm just a teacher, I'm just a grocery checker, church secretary or whatever. And you have been able to somehow see God use all your chapters.

How can we begin to see that God can use even the chapter we're in right now to unfold a bigger vision? And in your story, what have you become sure of about God as he's done that for you?

Oh, gosh, I think I have become sure that every human is made in the image and likeness of the divine and that we all represent a different facet of God and God's creation. I'm, I'm more sure of, of that 10 years in than I was definitely when I started.

And you know, and I think here's the thing, if we really believe that, then we have to believe. There's a scripture, and I believe it's Zachariah that says, do not despise small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin.

And I love, I think so often we despise smallness. We despise small beginnings. And we're asking the question of like, you know, is it big enough? Is it sexy enough? Is it important enough?

Is, are other people approving of me enough? And I think that we have to believe.

And if we believe that every other human on planet Earth is made in the image and likeness of the divine right, and deserves to be treated with, with dignity and respect because of that right, because they're made in, in the imago day, then one is enough, right?

Like, who am I to say that impacting, positively, encouraging, supporting, uplifting, being a part of healing for one person, like, isn't good enough?

That's actually a very, very, I don't know, I would say probably like egotistical thing, that it's like, no, no, no, I'm important enough that I need to be able to impact a million people or it doesn't matter. And I think that that's the difference. I'm not saying give up your million, your million, your big dreams.

What I'm saying is that I think there's two ways that we can pursue dreams. We can pursue them out of a sense of striving, in the sense that Like, I need. Need this for my own significance. I need this.

I need to accomplish this so I can prove that I matter.

And then we can pursue big dreams out of a sense of overflow, of, like, I. I've so recognized my own just how loved I am and the joy and the gratitude and the gift of, like, being a human among other humans. And I want my life to be an overflow and an extension of that. And they might look the same for both of them.

You're running, you're working your butt off, you're taking risks, you're making sacrifices, like, good, it's not going to happen if you sit home and just, like, watch Netflix. And, you know, I love Netflix occasionally, but it's not going to happen. So. So from the outside, it can really look like, oh, we're all.

We're running.

But I, I do believe that there is a real difference between running and striving versus running out of a sense of overflow, of, I. I want to share this, and I want this to be an experience that I get to share and be a part of for other people and not just myself.

Liz, good word. I feel like we could talk to you all day. I'm super excited that you're gonna make your way up to the upper north of the pnw.

And in the meantime, how can people connect with you and follow along with the work that you're doing?

Yeah, absolutely. The three ways would be. I really only use Instagram, so I'm over at Instagram at Liz Bohannon. But come follow me. Come hang out, sleep into my dms.

I love reading and hearing from people. You can check out Sseko. It's SSE ko designs on the Internet and socials and all of the places.

If you really want to get involved and you really want to hang out, come be a Sseko fellow, because then you'll hear and see from me a lot. Because we have a very.

I'm very, very close with our, with our field and, and our fellows and would love to welcome you into that part of our community. And you can listen to the podcast. That's another way I can be. I can tickle your ears once a week. Not just me, but some other amazing guests.

And you can become a part of the Plucking up podcast and you can find our podcasts where you find all podcasts, Spotify, Apple, all the places.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Liz, for hanging out with us.

Thanks so much, Willow.

For those of you listening, we hope that you keep colliding and know that you are are already significant. So live out of the overflow of that and go change the world. Starting small starting today, starting right where God has you. Have a great week.

We'll catch you next week.

Thanks for tuning in to keep up with us. You can find us on Instagram @ WeCollide on Facebook @ WeCollideWomen.

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