In my conversation with David, my Dad, he unravels his 40-plus years of business practices. He invites us to trust ourselves and our employees more; to not be afraid to flesh out an idea or try new things. He talks about the great things that come from empowering your staff through responsibility and generosity of spirit and the value of building your business on something meaningful and communicating that love through extraordinary customer service. In summary, people never forget how you make them feel.

Listen in on today’s episode as we discuss the key elements to always include in your business model along with several life lessons that may even aid you in creating a stronger circle of genuine relationships. Lastly, I encourage you to explore who in your community and in your world holds a great deal of experience, wisdom, and expertise in a particular area. And who among those people have you not had a conversation with and listened to in a while?

Listen to the episode on Spotify, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Topics Covered:

• The importance of trusting yourself, explore an idea and try new things
• Build a community by asking people to join you
• Empowering staff leads to great customer service
• Meaningful differentiation in marketing your business
• Get good at hiring people and hire people to complement your skill sets
• Trusting suppliers and knowing more about them
• Focus on process instead of goals

Resources Mentioned:

• Minding The Store by Stanley Marcus

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• Website
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Email: hello@thisisjenniealexis.com

Hey, it's your host Jennie with an AI E. And you are listening to this is Jennie Alexis, a podcast about getting curious and doing things differently. Every episode I share personal musings conversations and stories that I hope will invite you to explore ways to live outside the systems were taught, and often believe we need to fit into. For more information about today's episode, including show notes, be sure to visit this is Jenniealexis.com/podcast. I am so glad you're here. Now on to today's show. Hi, and welcome back to the podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Alexis, today's episode is a conversation with my dad. It's my first interview on the podcast, what I hope will be the first of many. And when I was thinking about, you know, how do I want to start the series of conversations, there is something about starting from the beginning isn't there. And the person who's taught me the most about being in business for myself, the person that I often turn to when I'm sort of feeling a bit frustrated or unclear on how to move forward, the person who's really modeled for me what is possible and owning our own business. And a lot of the challenges that come along with it is my dad, David, my dad's owned his own business. He's been an entrepreneur for over 40 years, that businesses, you know, it's taken many different forms to be certain. And one of the things I love about our conversation is that he shares stories about the people that he's worked with, about things that he learned about practices that he experimented with, and then apply to his business. And I love stories, as I think I've mentioned on a previous episode, I think they're such great ways for us to listen and learn, and particularly to learn from someone who is bringing forth an experience in business that maybe we don't have, or date really take the opportunity to find, to listen, to really hear some of the lessons and wisdom that comes from people who've been in business for a long time. So a little bit about my dad, as I mentioned, he's been in business for over 40 years, he owned a very successful luggage and leather goods store in northern Alberta. He owned a travel agency, and he talks a little bit about what they specialize in. But they really specialized in creating memorable experiences for people. Other things, I think, that are really important to know about my dad, our he's a leader, and he's not an a leader. And like the big rah rah, follow me he's a leader in that true sense. Where he invites people to be a part of something, he asks people to participate. And as I've experienced, and many people who know him and have worked alongside with him know is that my dad will always invite you to shift into a way of being an experience, an identity that he can see you are suited for, but maybe you can't see that for yourself. I don't think you've learned that kind of thing. I think that you're born with that. And I think oftentimes that those individuals who have that ability, they don't always have that ability for themselves, but they really do have it for others. And that's certainly my dad. He is someone who really believes in his people, not just his family, but people in his community. He is a super busy guy. He is very involved with community planning, and housing in the community that he and my mom now live in. He's very involved with politics on a local level, and a federal level as well. He's very passionate about that. And he brings with all of those things, a huge amount of experience and he brings a perspective that comes from experience that comes from wisdom from having tried things and no Seeing what really works. And that has come from, I think, a real deep sense of curiosity. In many ways, my dad is the guy who throws a bunch of stuff at the wall and sees what sticks. He's far more strategic than that. But he is someone who is willing to try things, to see what is going to work. One of the things that my dad has taught me that I've really taken forward into my life that I'm really proud of, is the value of and the importance of community. And it's something that both my parents instilled in my sister and I, and that community is something that is living that we have to attend to and care for. And so one of the things that my dad has taught me is that if you want to do something, if you want to create a community, you have to ask people to join you. And it could be, you know, asking somebody to have coffee, it could be asking someone to do a project with you. And you'll hear the ways that that asking and creating inviting people into a vision that he has, how that has impacted people that he's worked with. So before I shift over to the conversation, the one thing I really want to invite you to consider today, and it's something that I realized at the end of our conversation is how infrequently I am having conversations with people who bring forward a lot of experience a lot of wisdom in a particular way, because they've done something for such a long period of time. I have lots of friends and contacts and clients who've been in business for 510 15 years. And there's a certain of course, experience and knowledge that comes along with that. But talking to somebody who's been in business for a generation, that's something completely different. Because they've seen the way that business has changed, or as my dad says in this conversation has not changed that much. But there's a whole approach to marketing, and hiring, and communication that many of us don't have to navigate now. And I really appreciated hearing those stories, hearing that knowledge. And considering how much has changed how much has has not changed. But really, the piece being for me is to have more conversations with people in my community who have done something for a really long time. So that's my invitation to you listening today. And my dad's gonna probably be rolling his eyes thinking coaches made me sound like I'm so old. And he's not, he's not an old guy at all. He's a wise, intelligent, kind, loving, generous, human. And I'm so lucky to call him my dad. Hi, welcome. All right, I'm so delighted that you're here, dad, and you're the first guest on my relatively new podcast. So it feels really feels really special to have this conversation with you.

Well, it's special for me as well. I'm delighted to be the first person on TV interviews.

Yeah, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is that so much about what I've learned with regards to being really curious and questioning the way things done has come from what you've modeled, you know, when I was growing up how you and mom sort of are in the world. But I think in particular, the way the lens through which you see the world. And that's a big part of what I want to talk about today, I want to talk about business. As I mentioned in the intro, you've been in business owned your own business in some capacity for 40 plus years. So maybe let's start there. Can you share first a little bit about your experience in business? And then I want to dive into some other questions.

Well, you know, I didn't grow up in a family with business. So it was it was new as the first person in the family to be in business. And I didn't have a lot to model it on. I just got a phone call one day from a friend of mine said you want to open a leather coat store. And I was that particular time I was working for the government and just feeling that I just didn't want to be there anymore. So I did and I learned a lot doing working with him and working with our suppliers and so on. And I shared a space with another fellow who had been in business a long time. So it was a great opportunity for me to learn Things, lose some money, and then to move on to other pursuits and other stores.

So the question that I'm wanting to sort of use as an anchor for these conversations is around some of the things that you know each of us do, or the choices and things that we've done differently that have really made a difference. So my question to you is, what are some of the things that you've done differently in your personal life and in business, that have really made a difference?

Oh, wow. Yeah, I don't know about personal life, I should have trusted myself more. And then when I bought the travel agency, I was in a different business, I was in the luggage business. But when I bought the travel agency, I looked at it and I felt we should treat it more like a retail shop, or we, that was the first thought. And then the second thought is, we should put on the second floor where it was cheaper, and it would be easier to manage. And I was told, No, you can't do that. And I should have gone with my first my first instinct. And so many of the things that that I did were based on first instincts, and I think sometimes they're right. I think one of the other things is that, I think we owe it to ourselves, if we get an idea about something, whatever it is something in your business or something else, or, you know, out of curiosity, I think we owe it to ourselves to explore that. And, you know, explore it a little. And then if it catches even more interested to explore it deeply, but sometimes it just requires a little bit of googling or something. And then you're, we're talking to somebody else in the saying that, that won't work. I'm not interested in that anymore. But I think we owe it to ourselves. And frequently, I think we just say, Well, I have this idea. And we just leave it rather than pursuing it. And I think that's worthwhile. That's one of the things I was always prepared to try new things as they came along in the business, they can then travel agency, when when eventually we didn't have commissions from airlines, and we had to charge fees, and we moved to charging fees. We were the first people in Grand Prairie to charge fees. It was a struggle to do that. But I was always interested in new things in the business, new technologies, things that would make life better, faster, cheaper. And I think one needs to do that all the time is to look at these two, again, it's sort of exploring ideas that one gets. And one of the things that we did in the travel agency was, we prepared something called a destination dossier. And it was an idea. And then it had about 25 iterations before we finally got it to something that we were really, really proud of, and so on. But it was unique in what we did, and how many travel agencies in Canada did it to the extent that we did have, but again, it was one of those things where I thought, well, he's to be an interesting idea, and then searched and found where we could get resources easily and print maps and that kind of thing. So people appreciate it.

Thank you. So when I sort of think about that question, I have some reflections of what I've sort of witnessed and you in business. So maybe I'll phrase the question a little bit differently, or maybe ask the question differently. Yeah. What choices have you made that went against expectation that went against the status quo that went against dominant culture? You know, I think one example is you often hired folks in your business who came with very little experience. So they didn't know anything about travel, or they didn't know anything about retail. Sure, you know, as an example.

Okay, I think that that would be one of the things that I would say to people who might be listening is that whatever you're doing, you're going to need other people at some point. And so you have to get really, really good at hiring people. And a lot of people say, Oh, I know, people, I am a really good, good judge of character. And certainly, that was the way I felt, but I made some early mistakes. And then I decided to get into that a lot. And I did a lot of reading. And we spent a lot of time hiring people in the times that we spent a lot of time hiring people, we always got really good people, the times where we trusted just on the first reaction, where we did not get good people. And so that was one of the things that taught me was to spend time, be slow on hiring and be fast on firing. So take your time to find the right people. And we did one in particular, remember, we spent very little money. We just ran a small ad that said travel agents wanted no experience necessary, apply to David, my email address, and we got 125 applications. And we had designed a process before that was all designed to have people drop out. So by the end of it, we only had 15 People who had stayed through and will still wanted the job. After all the things that we had asked to do, to write things to show up for meetings to be interviewed by me to get me on the phone. And a lot of people dropped out at that point. Like I said, Here's my phone number. Do not leave a message but you must get me on the phone because that was a test to pursue stunts that travel nation sometimes need to get through to people, like how much time and effort are you prepared to put. So we narrowed it down, we had some really, really good applicants. And we learned a lot about them in that process, the young woman that we hired was a lot younger than we thought. But a standard at that time in the travel business was selling a million dollars a year. And within 15 months, she was selling a million dollars a year, she's still in the business. And that's about 18 years now. Still doing a really good job and earning a living doing that.

Yeah. And I think she was, I don't even know that she was 20, where she actually was, oh, we thought that

she was at least 20. It turned out she was just a little older 18. But she was so mature, and the way that she did things and the way that she spoke, so we were really pleased. And she she just was wonderful to work with. And I'm still in touch with her after being away from the business now about eight or nine years.

And just for everyone listening, one of the beautiful qualities that my father and I share is ease into salty eyes. But one of the things I've always been really impressed by and really proud of is witnessing the impact you had on the people who worked for you. Like I remember recently, a young woman you hired again, she was probably 15 or 16, whatever the legal working age was at that time, who reached out to you I think, a few years ago to say that working with you, I guess. I mean, it's probably 3035 years ago, when you had the store in the mall. Yeah, how working with you have that impact.

She was great. I mean, this, this is another thing that I used to tell people because I was frequently asked when I was in Granberry, to speak to classes about applying for jobs. And I said that the letter that you send is the door opener to get you in an interview and the resume that's what it was designed for. So we got a letter one day at the store. And this is when I had a luggage and handbag store in the mall. And the decor was in green by and large. And all of our logos and everything were in green. And we got this letter and it was the typical young teenager script writing, you know, the big loopy letters with the little hearts for the eye and that kind of thing. On flower repaper. And she wrote and said that she loved the store, and that she particularly liked the color green and playing volleyball and cold pizza, and that she loved the Frederick M handbags. And this was a line of handbags that we shouldn't have been selling. I mean, the fellow Frederick used to say to me, you should not be able to sell these handbags in Grand Prairie. And every year I'd go and buy more handbags from and he was always amazed. So we didn't this letter that we got from this young woman was so compelling. And in this enthusiasm that she expressed that we asked her to come in and I met with her and some of the other people met with her, which was something I always did is to have other people in the team meet with applicants. And we decided to hire a part time Well, I think she stayed with us for about five or six years after she graduated from high school, she worked full time for a year or two. And again, still in touch with her but she was a wonderful person to have in the store. She was so enthusiastic, she tried everything that we asked her to do. And she contributed in terms of helping plan things. And if we had a special event she was I remember I have a picture I found the other day we the mall had a an event about rock and roll old rock and roll days. And we were all meant to dress up as as researchers from you know, from Greece. And so we managed to get a car in there. It's just amazing. They all showed up in their rolled up jeans and white running shoes and white socks and their hair all done up. But yeah, I remember she she was great to work with and I am still in touch with her. But yeah, that's the thing about I think hiring people is, is it's been it's all about the casting, you know, it's like it's like doing a play it in a community theater or anywhere. It's all about casting. And you have to spend time and you know, when you go for an audition is that you know, you're asked to prepare something and you have a there's a team of people you perform in front of you might perform with other people, against other people and so on so the director can see in your frequently asked to come back. So you know, but the usual hiring practice and a lot of stores is there's you know, maybe an interview, maybe not an interview 50% of employers do not check references. So, you know, I think you have to do all those things. And that's when you find out you really when you start to see people, as you interact with the rest of your staff who you ask them to do something is that you begin to learn something about them and see whether they're going to fit into the team and and be prepared to do things with it. The last time we heard somebody, we got it down to four people and we asked them to come in and I gave them an envelope and inside the envelope was $20 a pencil and a Tim Hortons card and it said this is what you have. Go out and change the world. come back and tell us what you did. And we'd like to hear from you within 36 hours. So we got some brilliant responses. I mean, one woman drew a picture of a dog, she put it in a pet store, and they raffled it off, and she raised $136, to the SPCA, and 24 hours, you just brilliant, there was one woman. And this is where the catch that you get into is that one of the women who's applied was a little older. And I was initially very keen on her. She was indigenous youth from the territories. And she wanted to pursue a career in public relations and communications. And I thought she'd fit in really well. 13. When she got this envelope, she went home, she called me, she said, You want me to do all of this for $16 an hour. And it was just like a turning point. Like, yeah, if you're not interested, you don't want to build a career with us then. Because that's where it started. But you could do but much better. But it just was an attitude thing. She wasn't prepared to do that. But again, we hired somebody really good for that position as well.

So when I listened to those stories, and the relationship you had with staff and the process of hiring, I'm curious about where you developed that sense of, you know, creating opportunities for people, which is, you know, I think a form of leadership, when we create space for people to to join a team and to say, no, if they want to say no, or to dive in further if they they want to. So I'm curious about where that came from. I don't know.

It mean, your mother thinks is because I always thought of you. And Nancy, when I was hiring people, maybe that was it. I think it also had a lot to do with the opportunities I was given. When I was younger, I presented with a lot of opportunities to you know what, I got a good job right out of, you know, in high school, right after high school working in a hotels, a front desk clerk, you know, when I learned a lot there, I had a chance to work in auto was an assistant to a member of parliament. I mean, it just, I had lots and lots of really good opportunities. And I learned a lot from those things. And there was a lot of people that asked me to do things, you know, I was going to vote with the Edmonton Social Planning Council at a very young age. And I maintained a real interest in that work to this day, where I'm involved with Victoria Social Planning Council. So I think I had all those opportunities. And I just, that was one of the things that motivated me as to, I guess, to give other people opportunities, especially in Grand Prairie, where sometimes the opportunities to do things a little different were perhaps absent. Well, one of the things I was gonna say I just remembered is that you said about doing something different and giving people opportunity is that in the luggage store is that we had a, I can't remember how I came to this one day, I think it was after I dealt with a customer who was was difficult. They wanted to return something and it was anyway, was a big issue. So the next day I came in, I said to everybody, so this is the deal on returns now just do whatever people want. So when they come in is that they have usually fretted about this item that they want to bring back and have a whole story about why it isn't right or whatever. And I said, Listen politely and then say, What would you like. And then if they say would like my mind back, give them their money back, if they want a credit, give them a credit, if they want a new one, give them a new one, just do whatever they want, as long as they're happy. And I knew this really worked one day I came back from lunch, and Laurie was there. And she said, I had somebody come in, and they wanted to return a handbag that they bought their way for Christmas. And I said, okay, and she held it up. And I looked at it. And she said, I know it's not from us, but I gave him a new handbag, I said perfect. I said he was happy. He said she was he was thrilled. So So what is in our handbag, we put it out in a sale rack, and we got rid of it. So we lost a little bit of money, but it was easier on her because she didn't have to fight with them and say, Well, it isn't our handbag and and then to have them go away and find out what he wasn't our handbag and then to be embarrassed. So just a lot easier. And it became a good story around the store. And the other one I did and again, it has to go with, you know, trusting people. So we did the same thing at the travel agency in a different way. I told them that they could do anything, they wanted to help a customer so long as it was not illegal, immoral or fattening. And I gave them the authority to spend up to $500 and use the agency credit card, which they all had access to, to buy things for on behalf of customers and so on by so you can use the credit card up to $500. To solve a customer problem, two conditions, one that the problem is solved. And number two, they get tell the bookkeeper, what you spent the money on so that she didn't have to race around and find out where this $395 was why that was spent on the cart. And again, that worked really well. We didn't have to use that very often. But the staff were I think appreciated the fact and you know several months later I walked in and one of them said I had to spend $400 dollars to do this for a customer. And I said fine. Are they happy said they were thrilled. And I said, Great. You've told the bookkeeper. Yep. So that was it. It was it was great. But I think it was, you know, we tend to set up rules. And I think a lot of businesses do this, whether they're big or small, you entrust the staff, you give them a computer and a desk and a space to work, where you put them in charge of a store or something, when all of that is worth 10s of 1000s of dollars are given the, but yet you won't let them spend $5, or you won't let them take anything out of petty cash to solve a problem. And I think that we need to say, look, you're responsible, you're a good person, and I trust you. And so that's what we wanted to do. We wanted our customers to be happy. But more importantly, we needed the staff to be happy to know that I trusted them and that they could they could spend the money to solve those small problems that came along.

So would you say that one of the things that that approach to trust with your staff that that was a key component to the success and the growth of the businesses that you you ran?

I think so I you know, I think it was because they were, I mean, at least I hope it was I mean, to me was an important thing that, that they knew that I trusted them with that sort of thing. And and with more. So I hope that was I mean, it was no, that's why I did it is is that to show that we trusted them and that they needed to be independent operators, they were given the opportunity to make money and to sell things and to do things that they would the way they wanted to do. Yeah, I think that was part and parcel that. Yeah.

So changing directions a little bit for a minute. Yeah, maybe what surprises you about most about what's changed in business, since you first opened the luggage store?

The thing that surprises me the most is how little things have not changed. I mean, in the essence, it's still the same thing is it you have to have a good product in a good location. And you have to have a good relationship with your customers, you have to have good customer service. I mean, I think, you know, decades and decades ago, when I was growing up, is it there were there was really in some cases appallingly bad customer service. Well, now, providing good customer service is like the entry point. Right? Like you have to have good customer service. And to really stand out, you have to really excel at customer. So you have to do something that's really spectacular for people to see that you stand out. So just doing the view, ordinary things are just that sit there ordinary things. So I think that's one of the things to me, that hasn't changed since I was in businesses, it's all much the same. One of the questions I used to ask when we were hiring people was what in the last few days or weeks, have you experienced read or saw that was really cool. And the really dull ones would say, like, What do you mean, cool. Like? I said, Well, whatever you think is cool, right? And really could be a thing. It could be somebody could be something you read, you saw a movie, whatever, right? The brighter ones would say, oh, yeah, they had something right away that they were thought was cool. And the really bright ones would say, Well, this was cool. I read this, I saw this. But and then they would turn to me and say the bright ones. But what about you what is cool, and I would always hold up my cell phone, which is always on the desk. And I'd say when I went to university, there was a building that had the computer on the campus. And I said this cell phone that I have in my hand has more computing power than that whole building at. So I marvel at this every day. To me, that's really cool. You grew up with it. You grew up with cell phones, but for me, I still marvel at this. And that's to me, that's really cool. And now I A the accessibility that even an old guy like me has the AI to AI, not artificial insemination. Like you know, that's what the AI in the ranching business was artificial. And so but you know, artificial until the access that that any of us have on the internet to that is amazing. So pretty cool. But I think that still the basics and businesses having a good product and having great customer service, differentiating yourself. I think that's the thing that not enough people understand they think that they want to be the same as everybody in a particular type of business. And you have to differentiate yourself in a meaningful fashion. Like you can't just say, well, we're going to we're going to were to use a color orange. No, you have to it has to be a meaningful differentiation. And you know, there can be too many lookalike businesses. So

yeah, I think we see that a lot on the online business world. I mean, as you know, I don't have a bricks and mortar and most of the people I work with don't have bricks and mortar and yet we see a lot of mimicking. So you know, I'm love marketing And you and I often talk about marketing. So, we've chatted a bit about what hasn't changed in business, you know, what are your impressions with regards to the marketing approaches that you took in your business and the marketing that you see? Now? You know, just some thoughts on that?

Well, in a lot of ways, no, not a lot has changed, or it shouldn't change is that we always struggled with having customer lists, and the very first few years is that, you know, we didn't have the internet, we didn't have a database, we didn't have an electronic database, we had recipe cards with names and addresses on it. But those are really important. We used to send out we did mail a lot. And I still believe in that sort of thing today. And then when we got into the travel business, was about that time is that there was an electronic database. In fact, we get one that was designed just for the travel business. And that was great. And we use that a lot. That's one of the things that I think that I'm always surprised when I go into restaurants, and they don't have a database of customers, they don't know if I've been there before. But those places that, you know, I go into, and they know that we've been there before when I call to make a reservation, they say yes, they recognize the name. And I, I just can't understand why, like just about every business should have that so that they can begin to recognize who their good customers are, is really important. And to be able to get messages to their customers about something new that they're going to do or some changes they're going to make or something that always surprises me that people don't again, it's so inexpensive to get a really off the shelf cheap database to collect names and email addresses. I mean, if you want to get the full, all the other addresses great, but just the names and email addresses because the getting emails, you can only get them one at a time. You can't go to a book, you can't go to the old phonebook. I mean, that's, that's how I used to do things. I sit at home at night. And I'd copy names and addresses out of the phonebook and send people letters. But now like a database, it's amazing. I think that everybody has to have one in business. Doesn't matter what you do. florists, you know, it's one of the ones that I just don't understand. And I say, see justice several times it said I, there was one in Edmonton I, I finally went to I said, I called and she recognized and I said, you know that I buy flowers at Christmas from my mum. And then on Valentine's Day, and then for Mother's Day, and then for a birthday, said, why don't you put that in your calendar or your database and call me a week in advance or send me an email, which is to understand how to do that. And I said, you know, one of these days, I'm going to forget, or I'll just go to somebody else. But if you were to send me a note saying, you know, David, it says two weeks to Mother's Day, and we're gonna have these, you know, certain flowers in what can I send? I said, you know, it's, it's done, I would say, yeah, just do that. But I don't know why flower shops don't do that. They would just to create that loyalty with customers. Because we we all do that we have we send gifts to people at certain times of the year. You know, a lot of times the flowers, restaurants, repeat business all about repeat business with so many of these places, you can't build a really good business without repeat customers. So knowing who they are, and communicating with them, I think is still really important. But I mean, God, you can't go into Amazon, you can't go into chapters online, and even look at something without getting an email from them to say, well, you we sold, we noticed that you looked at this like if you buy this will give will ship it to you free. So if those guys are doing it, like if you're running a little bakery shops, surely to goodness, you can do this. It's not that difficult.

I mean, the conversation around having an email list is one that I have often with clients. And I think there's this perception that going out on social media and posting all the time is somehow less invasive than email. And I'd be curious for you to share that your perspective on this. But, you know, one of the things that I share with them is that we have to trust that customers have the ability to discern information, they want to consume information they don't want to consume. So if they don't want to read the email, they won't read the email. And there's a relational aspect, right to getting an email from somebody. So I'm curious as someone who's, you know, I think tracks and notices, interactions from businesses as a customer. How does it make you feel as a customer to receive, you know, emails from your favorite restaurant or whatever businesses that you're supporting? What value does that have for you?

What it does, it has a lot for me, if I get an email, and I assume we're going to be doing this, you know, it doesn't have to come out every week. It depends on the type of business and what the cycle is and so on. But if they send you an email and saying we're going to have a special event at New Years, and they send that to you with appropriate notice and so on. I appreciate getting that kind of thing because it was oh, well, you know, we didn't even think about doing anything. I mean, we were gonna stay at home. But now maybe we'll go because we're interested in that. And you're right, I think that people will say, Oh, and I'm not, I don't want to go, I don't have time for that, or I'm not available that day, they'll they'll delete it. And I don't think it's an intrusion. And if it is an intrusion, I mean, under Canadian law, you have to put an unsubscribe codon. So people will just unsubscribe. It's when you are sending stuff all the time, and it is just an IK spam. And it really is just, I gotta send something this week, because I promised myself I'd send something every week, the cycle of the business doesn't call for sending something every week, then it's pointless, you know. And I remember at times, once we were able to do this on email, I was really excited. I'll do it every week. But we soon found that that was the wrong cycles. And the other thing, again, is if you do this you can get now again, it's really easy to get a program that will tell you how many people opened your message, and how much time they spent. So you can begin to then look at are these the right sorts of messages? And do I have to send something different to get more people to open? Or how about if I change my subject line, I get more people to open it. If I get more people to open up, maybe I'll get more people to read it and to buy the service or to take action. So that's what it's all about. I mean, so I think it's it, you know, having emails is really, really useful to a business and I don't object to them at all. I think they were really very, very worthwhile.

You know, we've talked a bit about your experience in business and approaches to hiring and some thoughts on marketing. Is there anything that you wish you'd known before you became a small business owner? You thought, like, Damn, if I'd known that I would have really made a big difference. Yeah. Hire a bookkeeper.

Hire a bookkeeper or if you're a bookkeeper, if you really are a bookkeeper and you're going to open a business, then hire a marketing person or hire a salesperson hire which you can't do very well. I didn't have a bookkeeper. And I remember one day, waking up in a real panic because I had not paid the federal government income deductions at source. UIC income tax CPP I deducted it property from employees, but I hadn't submitted it. For months. I got up really early, I got the first plane to Edmonton. I went straight to their office, confess my sins, and they said we would have caught you. But it's really good you came in, we'll work it out, we'll send you a note how much you owe us. I said, Well, I I've estimated this, and here's a check for that. There's any extra let me know. But it was such a relief. But I hired a bookkeeper after that, because I just couldn't handle the stress that I had. Because I kept saying, well, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. And I wasn't very good at it, I could do it, but I just wasn't very good at it. So hire a bookkeeper or if you're a good bookkeeper and you're in business and hire somebody else to do this stuff and get good at hiring. So that's one of the things the other thing is hire an accountant who has some knowledge or expertise in your business in this is so much easier to do them. You know, back when I first got into business, it was really difficult to find that because we were in a small city. And it was a limited number of accounts. And but now you can have an accountant in Montreal if you want, and you just ship stuff back and forth. And that would be a real advantage to find an accountant. Like if you open a small restaurant to find an accountant that specializes in restaurants, because they can give you advice about oh, you know, your cost of food is way higher. I mean, the other people I do that are making money, do not spend that percentage on this, they can provide that sort of advice, but if they're just a general account, or if they do farming accounting or something, and they can't help you if you're a retailer. So I mean, they give you some general advice, but and that was one of the things that I but it was difficult back then we didn't have non till I got into travel. But at that point, I was so stuck on one account that I had to stay there pretty well. But I think even then I should have transferred to somebody who was a travel agency specialist account, I think it would have gotten much, much better advice and assistance than I did. So that that would be one of the things that I wish I'd known that one could do. I just thought accounting was counting was accounting, you know, I didn't know so that's one thing, the demands on cash to have cash, you know, the holding accounts receivable, how long things took to get done, the sometimes you would run out of cash. So it didn't always move as smoothly as one had hoped. And so having more cash available to you than when you started. Those would be two things I think and then I said earlier is get good at hiring people and hire people to complement your skill sets. Like the things that you can't do or that you will will not do or that you're not you know hire those people and get good at finding those people. Well and trusting someone tires. I mean, I initially I didn't necessarily trust suppliers. But as I got to know them, I learned a lot from the suppliers. And they referred me to other retailers who gave me advice and a lot of them. And I realized that the really good ones wanted me to succeed as well, because then they could succeed. So I would go to, you know, suppliers a lot wherever business was, whether it was in New luggage in handbag business, or whether it was in the travel business, one of the things that I noticed in the luggage business, and it certainly was true in the travel business as well, is that our top suppliers, and again, we had a really good database at that point that could tell us who our best suppliers were, I recognize the relationship between having being a great supplier to us and having depth of knowledge of their people. Like in the handbag, business and our top suppliers, we even knew the guy on the shipping door. Because we were spending so much time talking about getting things. And again, that's really, really important is to know more about them. So if you have a problem, you're not just dealing with the sales rep, you might be able to speak to, you know, the vice president or something about a problem you have. And that was certainly very, very useful in all the businesses is getting to know those people and getting close to the you know, that your key suppliers getting engaged with them, you know, I mean, one of the Walmart successes is that they give their key suppliers access to their sales inventory. And they have an open to buy with them, they can say to that Ballmer can say to, you used to say to Rubbermaid, he these are the products we want, this is the stock level we want, you can see the sales going through, so just ship as necessary. And that was because he had a great relationship really trust each other. And that's the kind of thing that you can get with your suppliers. If you spend time talking to them.

One of the pieces of advice that you gave me a few years ago was to focus on process over progress. Do you remember that?

Well, we have focus on processes as opposed to just goals. Yeah, it's funny. I was just reading that I'm going to a meeting. Later today, we're going to talk about that it was a really interesting idea. So the example is, if you're the football coach, and you say, team, the goal is we're going to win the title this year, right. And every time you meet with the team and say we're going to win the title this year, doesn't count as much as what you do in the practices, like that's the process part of it. So it's a good thing to have goals. But it's the process to do the process over and over and over again and get really good at it. And to find ways to make the process better, faster, cheaper. So, you know, if you're making handbags out of leather at home, that your business is that there's a process to doing this, right. So you get really good at that process so that you can make more in a day than you did the week before. And you find ways that you can make it faster, or better or cheaper. So to focus on the process, don't say, Well, I'm going to make clothes and bags a day. Okay, that's a nice goal. But how are you going to do that and to really go through that. And businesses and community associations are full of processes that they have to recognize like a community theater, the process of selecting the plays and the director is going to do is a key process. So you have to get really, really good at doing that. Because that will reflect in your final offering and your product, you know, for a retail store going and doing the buying is a process of how you do that how you control that. One of the tips I got I love this part I loved buying buying for a retail store is the art of retail, that's the heights of retail is to go and do the buying because you do the buying really well. So one of the things that I learned from that book, babe Stanley Marcus, from Neiman Marcus was, he always went buying with a reference group of 25 people in his mind, that was part of his process he would buy for those 25 people. The other one I had it was a friend in business, he always bought something on his trip that he could come back and sell immediately that would help pay for the trip. So he would find something if he was in the luggage business, he would find something that one of the shows that maybe was China and he buy a set of china that he come back and sell to his friends and make some money off that right away to help pay for the trip. Oh, it was a really interesting idea. I mean, it was a big part of the process is how you do all of these things is is sometimes more important, or certainly as important to setting goals. I think we need to think about these processes that every business has.

Yeah, I mean, I have a I have an interesting relationship with goal setting. But I've found that you know that phrase that you shared about focusing on the process, rather than the goal or the program So I found that to be really helpful, you know, it's really easy to get caught up in the minutiae of how the goal will come about, rather than focusing on like, what is the one small thing I can do today? What is the one small thing I can do on repeat that will contribute to that it sort of feels more digestible? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we've heard you've shared, you've had a luggage and leather goods store, handbag store, the travel agency. And I'm curious if you can share with us, what are some key moments in your career that you look back on now? And you can maybe reflect on them as being really pivotal, even though in the moment? Maybe they didn't seem very important?

No, I'm not sure if there was a like a moment, sometimes it was a, something that took place over a long period of time. So in the travel business, because of airlines not paying us Commission, we moved to selling to charging fees. And initially, it was while the airlines aren't paying us, so somebody has to, so you're gonna have to pay for it. But that evolved and our thinking around that evolved into, we provide a valuable service and our service is worthy of being paid for. So it changed. And that took some time. But that was a pivotal thing, I think, in the travel. And some people asked me now, so are there still travel agencies, and I say, Yeah, in fact, the travel agencies that went through that are making more money and having more fun than they did before. Because the process of charging a fee forced them to develop a value proposition. Like this is why I'm charging you this. And there is a story that went around then about a travel agency that a woman who worked from home and all she did was Disney, she loved Disney. And that's all she sewed was trips to Disneyland. And she got so busy that she decided to charge a fee for extra special service, and it was going to be $79 A trip. And that worked for a month or two. But then she found she was busier than ever. Because she was most of her people wanted the $79 upgraded service. So she said I'll fix that. And so she moved it to $129, you see for the extra special zero, and the ordinary service was 99. Now, and again, that didn't really help, she eventually had to go to 179 for a trip and she called that Pixy dust service. But you know, she would go to Disney three or four times a year to keep current with what was there because she would say to people, now you're going to be there for three days. So on this day going to have lunch, you should go for lunch between 11 and 12. Because they're not very busy at this restaurant at that time. They're really busy between 12 and 130. And I mean, she there was things that she knew because of her time that she spent there. And that was her value proposition, I can give you a better trip, you will pay me more for it, you know, you will learn more. And so I think that the people that lived through that in the travel period, were ended up being much better business people, they developed a value proposition. They charge fees. I mean, some of them now are charging fees. Like when we moved for fees, we was like, Wow, $25 for a domestic air ticket 50. For an international one, we were really tentative about it. I'm talking to some of the people that went through that with me that are now saying, yes, if you would like to plan a 14 day trip to Italy, and you want me to look after absolutely everything and book tours and everything for you, I charge $500 a week, plus whatever, the hotels and the airfares and the tour guys cost. And that's remarkable movement up from what we were doing. But that I think was a pivotal thing for me because it forced us in the travel business to say this is how we're different from the guy next door. We're not all because I used to hear people in the first years I was in the trial bus, we're all the same. If you've called Three travel agency, you're calling me now I'm going to give you the same price because we're all the same. And I heard travel agent saying that. And so it forced us when he charged fees to to and that was a big change. And I think it's a change that a lot of business. That's what all businesses have to do is like what is your value proposition? Why am I here? Why am I here? And what business Am I really in. And that helps you set that value proposition and what you can charge because of what you're doing, you're going to be doing something different than everybody else. It's all going to be different. That's what people want. So that was that, to me was probably the biggest thing that changed things having to do that. And it was difficult to you know, I've gone through now charging a fee for selling an air ticket to having to charge for a fee and I charge a fee but we very quickly learned this helped us if I hadn't got a wall I would still be in that business who is a great business to be in I love being in it. But by the time I got up but we really knew why we were there. Aaron could show our value proposition anyway.

So I want to shift in a moment here to sort of away from business. But before I do that, what would you love everyone listening to know, that would help them build their business other than some of the things we've talked about? And there's those pieces. But is there something someone who's building their business that you really think is important for them? To know whether it's a a tip, whether it's, you know, more of a philosophical approach, or something more concrete? A couple

of things. One is, why are you here? And you have to answer that really clearly. And if you can do that, before you open the business, that's great. You can do it slightly, you know, after you do it, but you have to answer that fairly quickly. Like, why am I here, and it isn't just to make money as our business is here to help people do X, Y, Zed, but there has to be a why that goes above and beyond just making money, okay? And that has to be really clear, then people will forget what you do for them, people will forget what you told them, but people will never forget how you make them feel. So you need to somehow build that into what you're doing. As you know, especially in some sorts of businesses, it's how you make people feel. So again, if it's a big underline, choosing bakeries, all of a sudden, it's because I go to so many bakeries, but if you go to a bakery, and they just, they just give you the stuff, they put it in a bag and say that's gonna be 595. I mean, you know, feel particularly good about that. But it's a baking, it's treated with care, and it's put in the bag or a box appropriately, you know, and someone says, Boy, it's gonna be really great with your coffee this morning, or, you know, with, with supper, whatever, making people feel good about why they've come in there and making them feel good, again, is a is I think, important. So those are two things. But I think the most important is, why are you here? And then from that flows, all sorts of things about, well, why are you here? And then that, like, how are you going to implement that? You know, so that becomes, again, part and parcel of the processes and the things that you do your value? Differentiation?

So, you know, that piece that you said about people will always remember how you made them feel? It feels like a feels like a good segue. Yeah, just for, you know, the last few minutes here, I just want to turn attention a little bit to how you operate in the world, you know, somebody's not as a business person. And we started the conversation with, you know, what are some of the things that you've done differently. And I think specifically about the way that you and mom have really developed and created community, and your approach to that, and an understanding and appreciation at how important community is, and not just constructing it, I think, you know, when I look at it, not constructing it for your own benefit. In fact, I think, most times not for your own benefit, but for the benefit of the, you know, the holistic wellness of the city in which you live and the people that you're in relationship with. I would love if you would share with people, why community and why community and building and, you know, the way that making people feel, I mean, that's sort of tying that together.

I don't know. I mean, it was my biggest worry, when I moved here to Victoria is like, what am I going to do? Right? And the tipping point was made for dinner, we had your host in Vancouver, with Greg, who had made the move before me to Vancouver, and he said, I'll find something to do. He says, I know, you'll just find something to do. And then he told me about what he did, and so on. And he said, you'll just find your way. And I and I then I felt a lot better about that. And I that's when I moved here. I when I moved here, I made a three promise to myself one that I was going to say yes, more often. So to say no, we're not going to do that, which I was doing a lot of in Grand Prairie. But yes, I will. You know, I'd be interested in that yesil serve in that committee. Yes. So I remind myself this the other day, because I was getting quite curmudgeonly about something and I was saying no, a lot. So I'm sad to go back to saying yes, because that's what opened up a lot of doors, and that I wasn't going to complain about the rain. And I still try not to complain about the rain here, because it really isn't that big in Victoria. And that three, I promised that I would that I would not call my friends in January in Grand Prairie and say, Do you want a Saturday I got a I got a tulip that's blooming. And I broke that rule yesterday because one of the guys called me he said, So what's happening and I supply just out there in a Cisco bulb is blooming. You almost hung up on me. So I think it's really reaching out to people like if you everybody wants to belong to something that is larger than they are and has a bigger place in the world. You want to be able to say I'm part of that whatever that is, it's meaningful to you. And so, organizations that are looking for volunteer is looking for people to get involved have to recognize that's one of the reasons that's one of, I think, three reasons why people join organizations. The other one is fun, they just want to have fun, which may mean just going and drinking beer after rehearsal or something. And the other one may be excellence, people want to hone a skill, like I'm belong to the stamp club, because I want to know more about collecting stamps. So just reaching out more, I think. And that's what I did. I was I heard people on the radio, I would track them down, call them and say, I heard you on CBC this morning. I'm just new here. Could I meet you for coffee? That's pretty aggressive, a lot of people would. I was determined to build a community here, your mom took a slightly different approach, he joined welcome, the newcomers. And that's worked really well for her. She has some really good friends here. But I think, you know, part of it is is that all of us want to belong to a community. We want that sense of community, there's people we can trust on people who look after us, people who we can call, but it does require some effort. And coffee with guy hadn't seen it about two years, because he was living in Norway the other day, and so we left I said, I'm going to put you back on the list. He said, What list? I said, I have a list of all the people I like to see periodically. And I go through it once a week. And if I haven't seen somebody, I'll give them a call. So he said, I'm on the list. Now he said, Yeah, you know, maybe another week or two before I call you, again, that suits me, it's sort of a formal thing. And in addition to the other commitments I have the groups I belong to in the projects I'm working on, I see those people because I have meetings with them. But there are other people that I've met that I haven't seen. So I like to keep in touch with even if it's just a phone call to say, like, what are you doing? Can we have coffee and something and that keeps me busy. And I feel much better for that? Has your

relationship with the as your relationship with community changed since living, you know, so a little bit of context for folks we used to live in. I mean, it's not technically northern Alberta, but when you look on a map doesn't look that far north, but it's pretty far north has a relationship with community and your need for it. And how you build and care for it. Has that changed since you left Grand Prairie to Victoria?

Probably a little because I was informed of yours. We were in Grand Prairie for 43 years, you know, so but formative years I was there. So I felt that I could do lots of things. And I was on the ground floor of building things there, which I'm not here. So it's different, right? So it's a different role that I played organizations here. Like later today, I'm going to share a strategy meeting for an organization that's been here since 1937. And I was just reading about the history of it this morning to say, you know, we we better do something to honor that past. Which nothing I really did. Because the community, you know, it just formed as a community really became a city in the 1950s. So there was a past honor, but it wasn't a long past it was different than here. So yeah, it's changed. I'm no longer sort of the leader instigator of things like I was in Grand Prairie, I'm just one of many 1000s of old bald white guys who, you know, most of whom recognize the privilege they have? And are, some of us are trying to do something about that. Use that power for good. But, you know, there's no question that we have, that all of us and most of my friends are like that, that we have a great deal of privilege, which your mother is fond of telling me all the time how much I have when we go to restaurants or we go into stores and nobody recognizes sir but they talked to me I do trade on that for sure. But I'm trying to use it for that power for good. Yeah. So you know, one of the other things instead about like why are you here in a business is so that there's gotta be more to the business than just making money you have to be able to look at it and say somehow you did some things that were good for people that you did some things that were worthwhile to you help change the world made it a better place you made life easier for people or you did some things and that was it took us a long time. But in the travel business we we talked about what business are we in? Why are we here and we said we were here to help people plan memorable and meaningful travel experiences. Because we a lot of our business was arranging weddings, destination weddings, so pretty memorable and meaningful to people. And also 25th wedding anniversaries and things of that nature. So we look back I look back on some of the trips that we help people plan that were really meaningful to their lives and I you know, every now and again I get there was one trip that we arranged for a group of 13 women at least once a year I had one of them write to me and say you know I'm still remember the time that we did bah bah bah that trip. So that kind of thing is doing something that's meaningful, or, you know, what? said, Why are you here? What business is, is something that will carry you beyond the money that you make on that trip. So I think that's really good. You know, I think that's one of the things that in business, you have to feel that you've made some difference in the world, in addition to the things that you do in the community, or the charity work, and so on, but your business should somehow have an impact on making a better world as well. And making a difference.

That feels like a really good place to end that good place. All right. Thank you very much.

Well, it's great.

Well, I hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did being a part of it. And I'd love to hear from you, I know that my dad would love to hear from you, as well. So if there's anything you want to share, or express, as always, please send me an email. My email is linked up in the show notes, as well as the book that my dad mentions in the conversation, the name of that book is minding the store by Stanley Marcus, and leaving you with the similar thought that started out this conversation with and that's who in your community in your world holds a lot of experience and wisdom and expertise in a particular area. And who among those people have you not sat down with and had a conversation with and listened to in a while? I think there's so much knowledge and wisdom that we can glean from those individuals. And I think so often that we forget to connect with and converse with those folks about their experience, whether it be in business, or otherwise, you know, one of my tenants in business and life is that we don't have to do it alone. And that doesn't just mean hiring help and having community it also means going to the people who have been there before us, and asking them, how would you have done things differently? What do you wish that you'd known? How can you advise me in this particular moment, season challenge in my life or business? Thank you so much for being here. And I look forward to connecting with you soon. Thanks for listening to this is Jennie Alexis, I hope you enjoyed what you heard on today's show. As always, it means the world to me when you share this content. So if there was something that got you thinking or made you curious, I'd love to know. Send me a note as this is Jennie alexis.com or over on Instagram at this is Jennie Alexis. If you enjoyed today's episode, another way you can show your appreciation is by leaving a review on iTunes. And if there's a person in your life who could benefit from this conversation, please share this episode with them. Thank you so much for being here. I can't wait to do it all again soon.