In this empowering episode, Coco Sellman, founder of the Force for Good System™, sits down with Carlyn Bushman, a powerhouse consultant dedicated to amplifying women entrepreneurs and founders.

WHAT YOU’LL GAIN BY LISTENTING IN:

With over 30 years of expertise across marketing, management, and financial strategy, Carlyn has developed a unique, holistic approach to help women build sustainable, thriving businesses. In this candid conversation, Coco and Carlyn explore the mindset, strategy, and tools needed to overcome growth challenges, scale with confidence, and build companies with purpose.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show

01:38 Introducing Carlyn Bushman

04:48 The Importance of Education in Business

10:06 Carlin's Journey: From Corporate to Consulting

26:04 The Four Pillars of Business Success

30:31 Common Growth Barriers for Women Entrepreneurs

34:22 Strategies for Overcoming Business Challenges

44:39 Building a Personal Board of Directors

50:36 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

50:51 Accelerate Your Business Growth

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

◾ The Wisdom of Women Show emphasizes the need for women leaders in business today.

◾ Understanding financials is crucial; knowing your numbers can drive business success.

◾ Building a strong network of support can significantly impact a woman's entrepreneurial journey.

◾ Many women entrepreneurs face cash flow challenges, particularly when scaling their businesses.

◾ Creating a personal board of directors can provide accountability and guidance for growth.

◾ Carlin’s four pillars of business focus on financial acumen, technology, management, and marketing strategies.

BURNING QUESTIONS ANSWERED:

1.How Can Women Entrepreneurs Break Free from Societal Constraints?

2.What Are the Essential Financial Strategies Every Founder Should Master?

3.How to Decide Between Product-Based and Service-Based Business Models?

4.How Can Founders Use Technology to Drive Business Growth?

5.What Are the Pillars of Sustainable Business Growth?

6.How to Build a Strategic Plan That Drives Long-Term Success?

FAVORITE QUOTES:

"Education in negotiating and business acumen goes beyond degrees; it's about knowing your worth and advocating for yourself." — Carlyn Bushman

"You don’t need to do this alone; mentorship and community support are invaluable." — Coco Sellman

"The burn is real—cash flow challenges and burnout often go hand in hand. Know your numbers; let your data guide you, not your emotions." — Carlyn Bushman

"Build your business as if it’s an asset you’re going to sell someday. It’s the best way to ensure sustainability and value." — Coco Sellman

CLOSING THOUGHTS:

Coco and Carlyn remind listeners that successful growth doesn’t happen in isolation; it thrives in a community of support, transparency, and guidance. Whether you're struggling with cash flow, technology, or just need someone to validate your ideas, they emphasize that there is power in asking for help. Tune in to Carlyn’s programs and the #WisdomOfWomen Show to join a community dedicated to making the world a better place through women-led business.

OFFERS & CONTACT INFORMATION:

Website: https://www.carlynbushmanconsulting.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlynbushman/

Free 30 Minute Consultation: https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/postlivelauchdc

Delegation Workbook: https://carlynbushman.com/delegation-workbook-cbc

True COGs Calculator: https://carlynbushman.com/true-cogs-calculator

Profitability Master Class: https://carlynbushman.com/save-your-seat-december-masterclass

Follow the #WisdomOfWomen show for more inspiring stories and insights from trailblazing women founders, investors, and experts in growth and prosperity.

YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/yja3w7nh

Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/4tak8ajk

Amazon Prime: https://tinyurl.com/366syddj

Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bdhananz

RSS Feed: https://feeds.captivate.fm/womengetfunded/

Coco Sellman, the host of #WisdomOfWomen, believes business is a force for good, especially with visionary women at the helm. With over 25 years of entrepreneurial experience, she has launched five companies and guided over 500 startups. As Founder & CEO of A Force for Good, Coco supports purpose-driven women founders in unlocking exponential growth and prosperity. Her recent venture, Allumé Home Care, reached eight-figure revenues and seven-figure profits in just four years before a successful exit in 2024. A venture investor and board director, Coco’s upcoming book, *A Force for Good*, reveals a roadmap for women to lead high-impact, high-growth companies.

Learn more about A Force for Good:

Website: https://aforceforgood.biz/

Are Your GROWING or PLATEAUING? https://aforceforgood.biz/quiz/

1-Day Growth Plan: https://aforceforgood.biz/free-plan/

FFG Tool of the Week: https://aforceforgood.biz/weekly-tool/

The Book: https://aforceforgood.biz/book/

Growth Accelerator: https://aforceforgood.biz/accelerator/

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

Business is the most powerful innovative force in the world.

And with visionary women leaders at the helm, we can lead in both impact and profit.

Today's world needs the wisdom of women in business.

This is why we are here to help women grow.

Are you already a successful visionary woman founder leading a high, high impact company?

The Wisdom of Women show is designed just for you.

We are a community of women founders, investors and leaders who want to see you rise.

Join us as we unlock opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises.

The future of business is women.

Are you ready?

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

We are dedicated to amplifying the voice of women in business.

A new model of leadership is emerging and we are here to amplify the voices of women leading the way.

Thank you for joining us today as we illuminate the path to unlocking opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises by amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

So today we have a very special guest who I met at an entrepreneur event, the Founders Event back in April and I just loved our connection and needed to bring her here to visit us today.

So with over 30 years of experience in marketing, management, technology and and financial strategy.

So all the pieces that you need.

Carlyn Bushman is a powerhouse business leader dedicated to helping women entrepreneurs.

She's worked with a lot of them build and scale thriving product and service based companies.

As the founder of Carlin, Bushman Consulting, CBC and Pop Academy, which we'll learn more about.

Carlin empowers women business owners by offering tailored solutions and she really does.

She has all kinds of offerings, big and small for wherever you are, as you're, as you're growing your enterprise.

So she offers solutions in digital marketing, business, financials and strategic growth.

Her expert, I mean they're all really integrated together.

It's not like one or the other.

They're really all super connected and integrated.

So Carlin's expertise in organizational leadership, team building and sustainable revenue generation makes her a trusted advisor to women founders eager to achieve long term success.

So Carlin's impact extends to her role as an advisory council member at Arizona State University's center for Entrepreneurship where she contributes to innovative entrepreneurial programs.

Also a certified Klaviyo partner.

I hope I'm saying that right.

And member of the entrepreneur and host on the startups in Stiletto show which is really fun and super engaging.

You all should check it out.

Harlan is a champion of women led businesses, helping them create reliable scalable systems to foster growth through unique four pillar Approach, which we're going to talk about, ensures that her clients don't just grow, they build businesses of substance and scale.

So welcome.

So happy to have you here, Carlin.

Coco, it is so good to be here.

Wow.

I, I look, I love that intro.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And I am going to have to listen to that recording so I can do that intro as well as you just did that intro.

Oh, my goodness.

Well, you know, I am just, I'm just honored to be here with you and can't wait to get into this conversation because I just feel like we could, we could talk for hours and days on how to create businesses that do great and also do good in the world.

So our icebreaker question, as you know, is what is one book written by a woman that has significantly influenced your life?

Well, at this advanced age in my life, Coco, I think it is really unfair of you to request just one book.

I don't know about you.

I am an avid reader, and I have, I've been an avid reader most of my life, pretty much all my life.

And when you asked me to narrow it down to one book, I struggled.

And I had to go deep into the archives because I read so many incredible books that I could list.

Right.

Any Brene Brown book.

I'm really a huge fan.

And I've read like Braving the Wilderness comes to mind.

Right.

Edith Edgar, the Choice comes to mind.

So many important books out there with such great pieces of information.

As a woman in business, there is a book that I'd love to point out that I think might not be as significant when it comes to some of the other books that I mentioned, but equally important, and it is How Women rise.

Break the 12 habits, holding you back from your next raise, promotion, or job by.

And I'm going to.

I hope I get her last name correct, because I really adore her.

Sally Helgeson.

And I just absolutely loved this book so much that I am a big fan of annotating all the way through my books.

So thank you for asking this question because what it, what it really cost me to do, the action behind your question was go back into a lot of my books.

I opened up several of them and I started reading my notes inside of these books that I haven't opened for quite some time.

And it was perfect timing.

I'm in this space right now in my life and in my business on reflecting towards the end of the year what's in store for the next year.

And these books are great.

All the books I've mentioned really had given me the opportunity to go back and look at my own personal notes.

I love that, you know, and how women rise.

I know this book, believe it or not, it was actually a book that I featured on the Wisdom of Women Book Club.

And so it's, it is a great book.

I'm so glad you, you brought it out because it's, it's not one that, you know, is often mentioned or maybe it's just not been mentioned in my little world, but it should be.

Right.

And it's, it's, it's definitely one to read.

It's.

I have this, this.

The reason I started the Wisdom of Women Book Club is because it, I find it to be very frustrating as a woman leader to go onto Amazon or wherever you purchase your books and search for something related to leadership or business and find that everything is a white male and not the white males don't have their wisdom.

But we need to hear voices of wisdom coming from different places.

And so I just love this.

And I don't know the other one of the other ones you mentioned, the choice by Edith Edgar.

I don't know that book, so I didn't have to pick up that one too.

That book is incredible.

Very short read, worth the read, and there's many books.

And I didn't know you actually had a book club.

So I'm really excited to learn more about that.

But what I find with these books is I'll identify 2 or 3.

I think my list might be up to 8 at this point that I will read every year.

Yeah.

So there's a few books that are on my list to read every year.

And now I had a colleague and dear friend of mine mention, why don't you do an audible version on one of those years?

So mixing it up between reading and then maybe listening to it, repetition is very big to me.

And I feel like if I reread it or re listen to it, I pick up so many interesting nuggets that I had not remembered from the first time through, which I think is natural for most of us.

Absolutely.

You know, and I'm a big audible listener.

I listen to audio books all the time.

And I like, it's like you said, I like to mix it up.

And with business books, I like to have a physical copy.

Right.

Because then I can, like you said, annotate things and make my little notes and circle and, you know, I just love to do that.

But I also love, oftentimes you hear the author's voice when they're reading it.

And that creates an extra place in my heart for the message.

So I'm so happy that we got to talk about books because I love them and it's always clear when there's somebody else on the show who loves them too.

So.

You know, Carlin, I know that you have been doing this business founder, entrepreneur thing for a very long time and you've worked with so many entrepreneurs, lots of women.

I don't know if it's always been women or if it's been both or if it made a change at some point.

But I'd love to hear about your journey as a founder and business leader and what inspired you to begin working with women and how has your own path shaped your philosophy of growth and leadership?

Coco, I.

Yes, I've been working in this space for a while, but my background is also in corporate.

And it's really interesting.

When I was in corporate and climbed that corporate ladder that we all, you know, some of us have been exposed to, maybe some have not.

When you get into that, I don't want to say everything with corporate is bad, bad, because that's not the case, you know.

No, Right.

You learn.

I've learned so much.

I learned about the structures.

I learned all my, like out of college.

So much of my financial acumen is based on corporate and the demands of corporate in a publicly traded company.

Teams, management, a lot of those things.

And the structure which is so, so important in a small business or in a founder's role or entrepreneurship in general.

What I saw in corporate is I started really leaning into building my team inside of corporate.

And as I was climbing and making my way inside of corporate at that time, which was quite a while ago at this point, the word intrapreneur, it wasn't really a thing, right.

So I would be building my team and I would be hiring, you know, quite a few women that would be like, I would be working with.

And I really felt the need to advocate on a consistent basis for the growth and development of the women that were on my team.

And at the time, there were not many women in leadership positions at all.

Like zero.

Like not many.

I was often the only woman at the table and in meetings, et cetera, et cetera.

And, and that was fine, that's what it was then.

But I really looked at developing women that were working with me to take on those leadership roles as they would be growing in their education.

And here's the thing, what I realized is education was critical.

And I don't mean the standard four year degree the mba.

I mean, education in negotiating for yourself, understanding the business acumen to advance your career and being able to stand on your own.

And there were so many circumstances that I witnessed, and myself included, where I felt like I wasn't prepared enough to take on a position, and then I would take that personally and maybe not go for that position because I didn't think I could check all the boxes.

And it's because I maybe didn't have the education.

No one mentored me.

I didn't have that sponsorship, and I didn't have that guidance, and I certainly did not have that confidence.

Well, you know, it's a big challenge we face, right, because there's this sort of social, societal framework that tells us over and over again to be a nice girl, to have good manners, to sit quietly, to be nice.

And in many ways, we're told we're not enough.

And so when it comes time and there's an opportunity, when we don't check all the boxes, we feel not enough.

Right.

Whereas our male counterparts have been taught all along to go out there and give it a try and be aggressive.

Oh, I've got one of the things checked, so I'll apply, right?

And.

And so it's not that women are timid, right.

It's that we, as you said, haven't been given the frameworks and the support to really just be like, go for it, right?

Somebody's.

So being in community, like with entrepreneur, and, you know, I know you do this with your.

With your POP product program, you really.

It's.

You create an environment where each other.

Can.

Other women start to tap you on the shoulder and say, yeah, you got this right?

You can.

You can rise too.

So this has been a big part of your journey, right, Helping women, you know, move beyond.

Well, yeah, and I had a client meeting last night, and I love how serendipitous this always is, right?

So I had this client meeting last night.

She shared a story with me.

I'm having this interview with you today.

I'm like, oh, thank you for dropping that in.

And she talked about the challenges she had with her first business and when she started her first business and how she.

She's facing starting her second business currently and how much different that is.

And she's just all in.

She's like, if I could survive and did what I did in my first business, I am, you know, let's go running into the burning building or whatever.

She's all in.

And it's a different.

Different perspective from her at this point.

But I want to back up just a minute in the corporate setting.

So when you don't advocate for yourself, and that's one of the habits of the book, How Women Rise, that's number one, is advocating for yourself.

I was in a situation where I didn't want to rock the boat necessarily.

I was making a good living.

I wasn't sure if asking for more was going to put me in a position of eventually being outed, like ousted.

I didn't know, Coco.

I didn't know.

And I had to provide for my family.

So now I'm in a situation where I've got some things going on in my personal life.

I have to provide for my family.

I'm in this corporate position.

I'm trying to advocate for other women to rise up.

And yet I, as a leader was feeling lack of confidence, a little insecure, knowing I needed to make more money to, you know, pay the bills and things like that.

It's this weird space that I thought, okay, okay, okay.

I don't want other women to feel that way.

Like, it really, it really.

And I, I ultimately made some poor decisions in that space too, out of necessity, right.

So there would be things that I would take on that I had no business taking on.

And it was, you know, everybody else's role thinking I could do it all, you know, all of the things we do so often.

So that led me into really educating and having the confidence and setting the boundaries and asking for what you deserve.

Like, all of that came full force as I grew this business to support female entrepreneurs in this space.

Oh, I love that.

Because then you, you sort of, you give others the advice in some cases that you need to hear for yourself, and you realize you can't walk this walk and, you know, have this talk and not walk the walk.

And so it puts you in that place where you, where you have, have to sort of, you know, step into the fire.

So what, what point did you decide to make this shift from corporate?

And I was in corporate too, and I am 100 in agreement with you, Carlin, that like, I learned so much structure and systems and thinking models and, you know, how, how businesses work and function from that experience that, that I, I've noticed over the years that, that founders who haven't had that experience, it is a gap, right?

So wherever you can find it by working with someone like you or another advisor, it really can, can help you develop that, that sense.

But what made you decide to sort of leave corporate and, and start doing what you're doing today?

I think What I really felt was corporate was all the things until it wasn't.

It taught me all the things until it also started managing my time, my schedule, my family time.

And I was making compromises that I had to step back for a minute and look at the bigger picture and decide, okay, there's going to be a point where my kids, at that point, my kids were middle school, you know, early teens and thinking it's time for me to be present in their lives.

And I just really felt the pull because what is your legacy at that point and whatever that it is, right?

So whether that is family or friends or just you personally finding that right moment where I wasn't, I felt like I was serving senior management and upper management and I wasn't serving myself and I wasn't serving my team.

And I thought this is probably the time for me to step away and to go find something that is really going to speak to me and use my talents that I've worked so hard and to be in a different space.

So I did take some time with my family and then redevelop and figure out what that career path was going to look like for the next chapter.

But it was a thousand percent scary.

Like it was scary on all, totally all levels.

Benefits, like, let's just talk the real stuff like benefits and a consistent paycheck.

And I mean all those things.

Like I went into debt.

My first consulting that I was starting to do, I went into.

Oh, and here's another thing that is so fascinating that just came up last week with another founder that we were, we were having this conversation.

My first consulting project or things that I did in my own business.

I took on every client possible because I had to make money and I wanted to make money fast.

And I started getting all these referrals and it was great.

And I thought this is fabulous.

I was one human being trying to serve so many clients in the medical space.

That's what I was doing was medical consulting.

And I said, yes, sure, I can do that, I can do that.

I over promised everywhere, ended up working like 15 hour days.

I mean, no joke, 15 hour days.

And then did not provide great service to most of them because I couldn't and you could.

But I wanted to make the money so badly because I didn't want to go in debt.

And I was so nervous because I just left a corporate position.

Like how was I going to do this?

Like how was I going to make all this work?

Like, I don't know.

So I just kept saying yes, terrible, terrible.

For my reputation.

Terrible.

For the quality of work I was delivering.

It was awful.

It was awful.

Like, don't do that.

What do you tell founders to do when they're in that spot?

What do you.

Like, like, if you're.

Because it's real.

Like, I understand.

I remember when I did.

Made the jump, too.

And it's.

You.

It's hard.

It's so hard.

And you, You.

You need to make the money.

You need to sort of get that flywheel spinning.

And you're.

You just.

And you don't really know right away when you're first launching a business what you're going to be great at and how it's all like, you just don't know.

You have to try a few things.

And so what would you recommend to a founder who's like, making that leap?

And, you know, how do you do it in a way that's.

That's a little more sane for yourself?

Well, Coco, you really touched on it at the beginning of this episode.

Like, connect with other founders.

Everybody's situation is different and unique.

And finding a network or finding a mentor or finding a sponsor.

And as we reflected, that wasn't necessarily the case when I was in the trenches at that point, there weren't these beautiful networks of women supporting other women.

And really everybody's situation could be so different.

You might have saved a ton of money from your corporate position, and you have two years worth of living expenses, and you could start slower.

You might, you know, you might be out of a divorce, and you can't start slower.

You might have, you know, you might have a disability that you didn't expect, an illness that comes up, a family member that needs your time and attention.

You just don't know.

Right?

So I can't say, oh, do A, then do B, then do C.

That's a lie.

Really, truly out.

And just find somebody that you can have a consistent conversation that is totally transparent, no judgment, and talk about where you are and what you're thinking and what that plan looks like and where to start and how to pace yourself so that you don't end up upside down with no clients and a bunch of debt, which feels terrible.

It does.

It feels terrible.

And it happens.

Right.

But, but, but, but, like, there's a way forward and you're right.

It's like you can, I think, I think through being able to anticipate better.

And, and again, you get that through mentorship.

You get that from having other eyes on what your, you know, your ideas and your plans and just doing everything all by yourself in a vacuum.

Which I think is another challenge that women sort of have where we think we need to do everything ourselves, ourselves and we don't want to invest in any help.

And you know, like you have very limited capital to start with and so but, but you do need to find some other people to throw ideas out because it is going to cost you money.

It is going to probably going to require some investment and it may take a lot longer than you think to break even and to turn a profit and replace the old income.

Like that's probably 100% true.

Most like 100% of the time.

I think everything we see and it's so easy for us to get caught up in that comparison syndrome which is the thief of joy.

Let's just remember that is the thief of joy.

Don't do it.

Because what we see out there we're like oh wow, she sold her business for eight figures and she did this.

And she did this.

The percentages, let's just be super, super clear.

The percentages of women, which is another reason I'm exactly where I am right now.

And that's the educational space.

The percentage of women starting businesses.

Fabulous percentage of women clearing six figures on top line.

Rev.

Mediocre.

The percentage of women getting to a million dollars.

Awful, awful, awful.

2%.

Right, right.

It's terrible.

Yeah.

It's like less than half of what our male counterparts and they also in the most common reason is because they run out of money.

And I know and like in my earlier businesses because I've, I've had five companies and I will tell you the last one was very successful.

The first ones were not as successful.

Right.

Like I had to skin my knees a lot and go into debt a few times and you know like have those, those difficult moments.

And it's, I've learned over the years is that you need help and we run out of money and we have to figure out how to get money.

And there's all different kinds of ways to do it.

There's all different kinds of ways to fund your enterprise.

But having some eyes on it to help you manage that is important.

And I know that a big area.

So you have four pillars that you really focus on in helping build businesses.

And you know, really it's a, it's.

And I love how you have programs that are like somebody can come and try it out and have an experience and then you also have like full end to end will do a big chunk of your business operations for you.

So you really have all of it so somebody can come in for as little as $100.

Right.

And have an incredible masterclass experience or you know, you can have work with you on a monthly basis, retainer and your team to make all of this happen, you know, with your, with your built in expertise.

So talk about these four pillars a little bit.

Can we unpack what those are and how you talk about them and how you help women build these four pillars in their companies?

Sure, Coco.

I think there's so many interesting things that you just uncovered there.

So my business is really set up to meet you where you are.

And those four pillars are a holistic approach.

And yeah, I use the word holistic.

Yes.

I'm a very structured, tactical person.

And then of course there's the side where, you know, we just talked about confidence and things like that.

So the holistic approach is know your numbers.

So financials, you have to know your numbers, big or small, if you like them or don't like them, let's make them fun.

But know your numbers.

Right.

I, and I'm a huge proponent on education.

So all these things I'm sharing with you right now is so you can stand out there as the CEO of your company.

You don't need me forever.

You don't need, you know, certain people.

We're seasonal here to help you at the point where you want and need the help.

Right.

So that is why education is so critically important to me.

So know your numbers and what they say about your business.

The second thing I really talk about is technology.

I love technology.

You cannot ignore the fact of something like the AI impact.

We all know that.

Right.

And being very forward thinking in your tech stack is super important.

It's important for a lot of reasons, but it also saves you money and time when implemented appropriately.

Right.

And you're using all those features and benefits.

So I'm a big tech stack evaluator on what's going to work inside your business.

Then the third piece of that is management.

What does your team look like and or when are you ready to hire a team member?

You know, so many of us think, well, who should I hire first?

Where should I start?

Well, we have tools to actually help you uncover where should you hire first?

Maybe, maybe it is a bookkeeper, maybe it's a va, maybe it's a social media person, whatever that looks like.

But let's look at it and approach it from like a exercise opportunity here.

Put down where there's gaps inside of your business.

That's where we start.

And then the fourth thing is Marketing, I mean at the end of the day, sales drive the business, right?

So you have to have a really strong strategy on your sales and marketing side of your business.

And like I said, it really depends where you are inside of your business.

All four work really nice cohesively together.

One is going to surface a little bit more than the other depending on, you know, what, what growth, growth phase you're in inside of your business.

So it's a really nice way to look at it.

I love it.

I love how you described, you know, the importance of numbers, having those finances as well as, you know, the numbers around marketing.

We were talking before we started this conversation today and you said that you're going to be leading a masterclass in December and it's just two hours but it's like helping people really, really come up with some strategy.

And also what you described as a gorgeous dashboard, right.

And I love the language around it because it's like I'm with you.

Like I, I have my, you know, force for good model around how to build a business.

And you know, it's important to have those heart centered pieces and having your purpose and your values and your mission and that's, I like to use that as the source to drive the results.

But you've got to have your data and you've got to know your financial structure or it's all going to just waste away.

It's going to, it's a house of cards ready, ready to just be blown over in the wind.

So what are the common growth barriers?

So you're, you've described some of these pieces that you look at and you help women build.

What are some of the growth barriers that you often see women facing as they're, let's say, let's say, let's start with like a company that a woman who's been around in business for a while but is stuck and either is like right at that almost million dollar level or somewhere between 500 and a million and cannot get to the next place and she's, she's like right at that plateau.

Like what, what do you, what are some of the things, common things that you see holding her back and her team?

Cash.

I mean, I don't mean to be blunt, but you know, a lot of times it's cash.

First of all.

Burn.

The burn is real.

Burning through cash and burning out.

Those things go hand in hand.

So when you're talking about going from six figures to seven figures, right?

So I see that, I see that as a beautiful leap.

I see that as, you know, stake in the ground, the excitement around that, the journey it takes to get there.

But and it does go back to knowing your numbers and understanding and letting those analytics make the decision for you.

I'll give you a great example.

So in a product based business, I've been really Q4 for our product based businesses is a very big quarter, as you know, with the holiday seasons, et cetera, et cetera.

And for, you know, I know this is timely for many in this space, but you're looking at inventory.

So instead of deciding I would love to drop in another product or for service based, I'd love to offer another course, another, you know, service that I can offer, whatever it is, hold up, hold up, look at, instead of you emotionally dropping in and saying I think that this color would do well or I think this course would do well, let's look at the data on did this product sell or did this course sell or do we need to double down on the marketing of that?

So really staying the course and being strategic in what the data is telling you instead of making an emotional decision.

I know you have great instincts.

You, you're in this business for a while, you understand your business better than anybody else.

I understand that.

And you're emotionally tied to it because you've built it.

So I respect that too.

I'm emotionally tied to my business.

Right.

I get that.

I also think I have a thousand great ideas.

Shiny object syndrome for me is a real thing.

It's a real thing.

Really big, bad, real thing.

Yes.

And I have to write that stuff down.

Sometimes I just have to say, okay, I'm going to just put this in my journal or put it on a doc or something to say that's a great idea, but maybe not now.

Right.

And I really educate to that because I want to look at how are we building programs or products that our consumer wants.

So let's stay there.

And so that's what I see happen is number one, the burn is real cash and burnout.

Number two, we don't really have a good strategy of what we're going to use to get us to the next level.

So is that a additional product?

Is that taking your hero product and marking it out somewhere else, is that, you know, dipping into wholesale from that space, is that taking your course and you know, developing it on a higher level?

More exposure, more visibility, it just really, again, Coco goes back to wherever you are in your business and what is your business?

It's, it can be very bespoke, and that's okay.

I don't think there's a tried and true exact formula.

I think you really have to look at your business holistically and you also have to evaluate honestly.

You want to get to a million dollars.

That sounds great.

What, how, how does that impact your lifestyle?

Right, right.

Like what's, what are the costs and benefits and, you know, and, and for lots of businesses.

Mine was $1 million.

Didn't you know, I was still way underwater with a million dollars in revenue.

You know, like, I still.

And still working a ton.

You know, long way to go.

Right.

So, but, but you're right.

Like, I love your, your immediate answer is that a lot of times at that stage, it really is cash.

Even though you have this business that on the top line is, is moving forward, there's, you know, a huge need to still keep investing in order to keep.

In order for it to grow.

One of the, one of the things I find myself saying to founders a lot is like a first good investment.

Oftentimes if you are not a data file, if you don't love data, you need somebody.

I don't care if they're a marketer or a VA or whatever they are, but you need somebody who has that, you know, willingness to collect data at least every week and put it in front of your face and have a conversation with you about it.

Because you think, you know, my nursing business, it was, it's always been about hiring nurses.

You think you know where the problems and the blockages are, but until you look at data, you really don't know.

Right.

You know this, I mean, you know this better than anyone.

Well, and spreadsheets are my love language.

Let's just.

I mean, I could, I can spreadsheet everything.

And it's, it's, you know, I don't want to say something I'm always proud of, but honestly, spreadsheets are my love language.

And the more they can do the formulas for me and tie things together, but you really, really touched on somebody.

If you hire somebody who's really loves the analytics or loves the data, you actually touched on two things that I love that you said, Coco.

Number one, measure it more often than not.

So if it could be weekly, go for it.

Like, that is amazing.

If it can only be monthly, well, that's better than not.

So at least do it monthly.

The second thing you said is have a conversation about it so often you get all these fancy tech platforms that spit out all these analytics to you and you're like, okay, and you look at them, but do you really look at them?

I mean, you really need to know what they mean or it's just a big waste of time.

Right?

It truly is.

Right.

Otherwise it's like, well, you've got the data, it's telling you that your customer likes this one particular message and doesn't have any interest in the other, but you're not paying attention.

And so you keep going down that track and you don't understand why your opt ins and your conversions aren't happening.

Right.

So yes, tell me about the, I'm curious about how you see this, that you work with product based businesses and service based businesses.

How do you think about those two types of businesses and what do you see as being, do you kind of look at them differently?

Do you, I mean, like, how do you think of them as entities?

Right.

I'm going to give you a really simple way to kind of look at the two businesses because I was thinking about this earlier.

As a service based business, you have a product, right.

You have a product, whatever that product is.

You, that's right, this, you know, you, you have a speaking engagement product.

You might have a book, of course, you might have a course like I talked about.

You have consulting packages, whatever that thing is, it's a product of your business at some point, it's a product of your business.

So the way I look at it is number one, are you charging enough?

I talk about this as cost of goods on the product side and we look at what your MSRP listing is because you have to cover your costs, obviously and then have a profit.

So that's what's called the MSRP in the product space.

Right.

Cost of goods sold.

Ah.

But then there's also that side of the business in the service side and the service side, I often call it the value added retail pricing.

So your VARP and your VARP is are you making profit off your services and are you looking at that just like you look at a cost of goods on a product side, look at your cost of goods on the service side.

So there are some similarities there.

Because what I see more often than not are both sides are undercharging.

Right?

Right.

Because you don't, you just don't have enough gross profit to pay your everything else.

Right.

And, and, and still take something away for yourself at the end of it.

All, Right?

Exactly, exactly.

That gross profit has to pay for your growth as well and hire your next person and whatever it Is, and it's right, it's like.

And you know, Carlin, it brings a really good point.

When I, when I look at a business as a, as an investor, you know, one of the most important numbers is what does your gross profit look like and what will it look like in five years?

Well, you know, as you scale, you know, will it how I want to know that it's going to go down and how is it going to go down and in what ways and how does it compare to the other types of products or services in your market?

Are you at benchmark?

Are you above?

Are you below?

Right, like that's a super important piece.

Well, Coco, and coming from your background and your incredible expertise in building and scaling and selling businesses, I think you'll agree that whether you decide you ever want to sell your business or not, always build it to sell.

Because one of the benchmarks that you are talking about is that profitability.

I really need to dig in deeper and set a plan in place for the next several years.

But I have to start it now.

I love that.

You know, I fully agree with you.

Like whether you ever plan to sell your business or not, when you start to treat it like an asset that has value that you, that somebody else would value, it becomes more valuable to you.

And whatever things you would do to like, make your company more valuable are going to be good for the company, good for the sustainability of the company.

And you never know what's going to happen.

Wouldn't it be better and nicer if something happened to you and it could keep going without you?

Like, and it could keep serving your family and serving your community.

Like those things we get in our way sometimes.

Right.

And I'm so excited for you actually because you were mentioning that you're building your strategic plan for next year and you had mentioned that you're thinking about its value and it's, its salability and it's, it's wonderful because as a consultant it's temp.

It's tempting to give all of your time away, right?

And then you put yourself in the middle of it all and you become the product.

But Then the value of the business is yourself.

So, you know, what I love about what you're doing is you're.

You've created this brand that has, you know, you have a team and it has inherent value with or without you, which you want.

Right.

It's so hard, Coco.

So how, how do you do that?

Let me ask you this question.

I know you're interviewing me, but I want to ask you, how do you work to remove yourself or to put something in place?

With all your experience, your expertise, I'd love to lean into that.

How have you done that?

How have you made that work for you?

Well, you know, the way I've done it is one of the last businesses.

Well, my healthcare company, I went into intentionally doing something that I knew I couldn't do.

I could not be a nurse.

I needed to set up a level of objectivity and boundary because it's so easy to just get in there and do everything, and I literally could not.

And there were regulations about who I had to hire and what their credentials were, and I had none of the credentials.

So it required me to do that.

It also required me to go out and find investors and, you know, that kind of thing so that I was then accountable to people other than myself.

And, you know, and that helped me.

And in moments of dread, they actually, my partners were unbelievably helpful in helping me make those transitions.

Right now, Carlin, I'm like launching this force for good brand, and it's very, I'm doing it very ambivalently because I am intentionally trying to create a brand that's product or program.

And I will hire a consultant to deliver most of the consulting and then create products and programs from there.

And I hope to find a partner who will come in and start to become more and more of a, of a, of a voice.

And so it's not just me, because it's not, you know, I want to create something that's way beyond just myself, but it's hard, right?

And so, you know, spinning that flywheel, trying to get, you know, build traction, do those things.

But I don't want to sell things that most people would sell.

And you know, like, I'm really like creating product and selling product and that's it.

Yeah, you are.

And I think that's fabulous to share because I think it's some great insight for all of us to take away that, you know, you are doing it in a different way than you did before.

But I love the fact that you said I actually built and sold a company that I was 100% unfamiliar with actually, as a nurse.

I wasn't a nurse.

Right.

And I've heard that before.

And I actually had that very similar conversation a few months ago with a woman who's built this business.

And she is.

She cannot be the one that actually gives the service because she's not qualified to do so, but she is a businesswoman and she's built a business, which I think is great.

There was also something that was recently brought up about creating somewhat of a board of directors for yourself, and that's your accountability piece that you just talked about.

So another way to get from half a million to a million is the mentor, the sponsor, your networks, or, and.

Or develop a personal board of directors.

Right.

And that can look a lot of different ways.

It could be phantom stock, maybe, maybe not.

Right.

It can be a stipend, it can be product that you give them on a quarterly basis or whatever that looks like.

There's so many ways.

But that becomes an accountability piece as well.

Right.

And I think there's, you know, you don't have to go raise, you know, hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars to have a board of directors.

Absolutely.

And the more traction you get, the other thing, the more traction you get, the more options you start to have for funding.

Right.

Like you might start out and every.

And you might have a business that is less fundable.

And then as time goes on, it's very fundable, and you start to find ways where you.

Now you can go get a SBA loan and now you're not giving away equity.

So it's, it's, you know, a great way to do that is find yourself some advisors and create some, you know, some accountability and support.

And, and so tell us a little bit about how people can get to work with you and plug into your programs.

Because, folks, you have to go to Carlin's website and check out all that she is doing, because you've got a lot of different options and choices about how you can connect with her.

So it's carlinbushmanconsulting.com and it's in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them there.

But tell us a little bit more about how people can start to work with you and learn more about what you do.

Just like you mentioned, Coco, I have so many different things that I want to meet you where you are.

This is my third career, third, fourth, somewhere in that space.

And I am really here to serve female entrepreneurs and founders.

Stay in business.

Staying in business.

That is my mission, is to help you stay in business and then of course, grow.

So I have free workshops.

We have another free workshop coming up.

I have a very budget friendly masterclass in December that, as you mentioned, Coco, you can literally come up and formulate your company strategies.

And then the executable side.

Yes, we'll be building this gorgeous dashboard.

It's something you're going to want to look at on a regular basis.

We're not going to make it cringey.

And of course, I've got Pop Academy, which is my.

I teach it like a college course.

It's my education platform where I am a huge proponent of education.

Giving you all the facts.

So you get to make your own decisions in your own business and not feel like you don't know some of these things.

So I encourage everybody to take a look at that as well.

We, we always are fielding questions.

There's a place on our website, just ask questions and we'll always get back to you.

We are 100 supportive of you both on our website, Instagram, LinkedIn, you can find me in all the relevant spaces.

I love it.

And so, and I noticed too, there's also something on your website about a quarterly business review, which totally like, I feel like I was talking to a founder recently and she said to me, what, what's one thing, you know, you think I should do that I haven't been doing?

I'm like, you need to have dashboards, you know, and, and like do them monthly.

But like, if you really did it quarterly with somebody else, it would, it would, it would just transform your whole business.

It, it would help you overnight.

It would just, you would double your business in a year if you did this, because it will help you get those things in front of you that need to evolve and change.

And so you do this with people, right?

You do it.

It's.

Yeah, it's.

It's for those founders that are very, very busy, like most of us.

A quarterly meeting for two hours, it's an accountability meeting.

But truly, it's like your virtual board of directors meeting.

That is truly what it is.

So when I say board of directors, if you don't know where to start, a quarterly business review.

QBRs, as they're called, fabulous to engage with those.

And then you have access to me as an example for the entire year.

Like you have access to me in between all of those meetings as well.

So that is a nice stake in the ground.

And to your point, dashboard, these KPIs on a regular basis.

If you can't do them weekly, do a monthly.

If you really do a monthly but want to have a conversation, then make that conversation at a minimum quarterly.

Why wouldn't you do that?

Yeah, it's wonderful.

Any last words of wisdom for our, for our listeners and watchers today?

Carla, just be open to asking any questions anytime because it's only going to serve you.

And Coco, I loved the nuggets you shared with us today too because we can all be here to support each other and I think there are a whole group of women out there supporting other women.

Just lean in.

You do not have to do this alone.

I encourage you not to.

Oh, I love that.

Leaning in.

Ask for help.

Right?

We've got a whole community of really wonderful women and lots of different ways you can enter in.

Whether it's, you know, get into one of your follow you on LinkedIn.

I mean just get in there and you're going to find out all the cool things that Carlin has going on and, and then, and then go from there.

Listen to her on, on the startups and stilettos.

Great show.

So fun, right?

Yes.

So thank you so much for joining us today.

Carlin, thank you for joining us on the Wisdom of Women show.

Thank you for illuminating the path to unlocking opportunities and prosperity for women led enterprises everywhere.

We value you and your experience.

So let's all go make the world a better place.

The world is made better by women led business.

Thank you.

Cheers.

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