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Proven Marketing Ideas for Small Businesses
Episode 130th August 2021 • Close The Loop • CallSource
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Kevin Dieny:

Hello, welcome

Kevin Dieny:

to The Close

Kevin Dieny:

The Loop podcast.

Kevin Dieny:

We are really excited for our first episode here and to get

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into the topic of proven marketing ideas for small businesses.

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I am joined by two illustrious guests, the first one I have with me today

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is Matt Widmyer, he's the sales development manager at CallSource.

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He oversees the ever-growing sales development division here while

Kevin Dieny:

working as a liaison between the marketing and sales departments.

Kevin Dieny:

Whether this is an individual or a team's operational gaps that he's facing, he'll

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roll up his sleeves and he'll go to work.

Kevin Dieny:

He is a problem solver, he's a mentor, and he is a coach, all rolled into one.

Kevin Dieny:

Matt has a wife and daughter and loves all things outdoors.

Matt Widmyer:

Hi everybody.

Kevin Dieny:

Matt and I have known each other for a few years, so

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he kind of represents our sales side and we the marketing side.

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It's always great conversations we get into.

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I'm also joined by Ronn Burner.

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Ronn Burner is an independent marketing strategy consultant.

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He appliances marketing and an MBA with his marketing automation experience to

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help organizations design, and execute, and measure their marketing strategies.

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When he is not designing programs, Ronn's time is spent as an avid

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sports and fitness fanatic and can be spotted with his 11 year old son

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at Disneyland on any given weekend.

Ronn Burner:

Yeah, that's a true story.

Ronn Burner:

Glad, and happy to be here.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, thanks Ronn.

Kevin Dieny:

Ronn also, we've been working with us before and we've known

Kevin Dieny:

all known each other for years.

Kevin Dieny:

Getting into the topic now.

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I wanted to quickly share and set the stage.

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So the framework that I've thought about and come up with for this episode

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has come back to every business is trying to figure out, "What marketing

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idea should I implement next?"

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"What should I do to maximize my investment in growing my business and

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generating leads, whatever the goal is?"

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So rather than come up with like a straight up list of let's call it

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like a hundred different ideas that any business should be considering...

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I took a different approach to this and looked at this like; every business

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should look at its internal resources and their capabilities first to assess.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay, what do I have to work with, because I think that quickly narrows down

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for you, what let's call them channels or campaigns or anything like that,

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that you would be capable of running.

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I think the best example is if you don't have any phone numbers, you know,

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you're not going to be calling anybody.

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So if we gave you a bunch of ideas, like, oh yeah, you should

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just pick up the phone and call.

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Call your perspective customers or prospects or whatever, then you would be

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like, "Wow, that idea is completely moot for me, don't have that capability."

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So, there were a few different dimensions on this and I wanted it to go over.

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One of them is if you don't have contact information, you don't have a CRM.

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You don't have some kind of a way of knowing who your previous clients were.

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If you don't, maybe you do have that, but you don't have

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it clearly in your database.

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You're probably not going to be able to utilize those very much.

Kevin Dieny:

Well, let's say you do have 10,000 phone numbers of prospects in your

Kevin Dieny:

database, but you don't have any CSRs, any phone handlers, any SDRs like

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Matt manages, then you have the data.

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You just don't have anyone to use it.

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So then you have to think about, am I going to call these people?

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Do you really want to spend time calling them?

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Or do you want, you know, to have someone who's going to be

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doing that dedicated full time?

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So I think you look at your business.

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I wrote down a couple things I think you could look at, and those

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are contact information, like emails, phone, numbers location.

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Do you have addresses like direct mail or do you have access to like

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an advertisement thing that'll just hit an entire zip code?

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Do you have the time and effort?

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Yep.

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Budget.

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You have skilled labor; people who can call for you.

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Is there demand?

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You have a website?

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If you don't have a website, you're probably not gonna be

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doing anything digital fully.

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We have an idea here.

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That's like, "I'll go, go look, work on your SEO or your social

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media," and you don't have a website or something like that.

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Probably need to do that first.

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So anyway, that's the, the basis I wanted to set this up for is every

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idea is going to have something that you're required to do.

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If the idea requires you to do things that are just outside of your reach,

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probably not the best idea for you.

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So when we talk about a proven marketing idea think about what you

Kevin Dieny:

have and what might suit you best.

Kevin Dieny:

So I wanted to jump right into it.

Kevin Dieny:

We'll start with Ronn.

Kevin Dieny:

Ronn, did you have any marketing ideas you thought of, or you wanted to

Kevin Dieny:

bring to the table we could discuss?

Ronn Burner:

I think you sort of touched on it initially.

Ronn Burner:

You know, that the leads in the database and one thing that I find to

Ronn Burner:

be essential, I mean, yes, you need the website, but you want to segment

Ronn Burner:

in a way where you're not speaking to the entire group as the same person.

Ronn Burner:

So if you can get some sort of level of segmentation or some sort of low

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level of differentiating them and with different personas, even if you

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keep it simple and have it smaller.

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And then you're trying to touch on them in a way that speaks specifically to them.

Ronn Burner:

Even if it's the same product you still want them to learn about it in a way

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that's specific to them in a way that suits them in a way that fits them.

Ronn Burner:

It's just really important to build that rapport with your audience.

Ronn Burner:

So they feel like that they can trust you and they feel like that they know you.

Ronn Burner:

So this, the key element that you really touched on was sustainable and scalable.

Ronn Burner:

So first thing I would do, yes, you're right.

Ronn Burner:

Is the website is super, super important.

Ronn Burner:

Some sort of database management, some sort of controlling the data

Ronn Burner:

that you do have, but aside from those two things, I really...

Ronn Burner:

I think just mapping out what your plan is, what you intend to do in a

Ronn Burner:

way that's sustainable and scalable.

Ronn Burner:

And then from there, once you have that basic little infrastructure, even if it's

Ronn Burner:

small, once you have that in place, now that's something that you can expand upon.

Ronn Burner:

And that's really the way I would approach it from a small business standpoint.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay...

Kevin Dieny:

so when it comes to segmenting, the most conventional way I can think of, that's

Kevin Dieny:

pretty easy to do is if you have a CRM or a database and separate, maybe the

Kevin Dieny:

good from the bad, the wheat from the chaff or the whatever you're trying to do

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next from the people that you probably, it probably won't be able to do next.

Kevin Dieny:

And that, that does kind of require some tagging, some information

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baked into that to pull that off.

Kevin Dieny:

So I'd say if a business is like, "Oh, well, how do I

Kevin Dieny:

get started with segmenting?"

Kevin Dieny:

I'd be like, well, you need probably some form of CRM or database, and

Kevin Dieny:

second you would need them, people, in there separated in some way.

Kevin Dieny:

And the most obvious way to me is customers from not customers, but it

could also be:

people in this area or that area, or people who have

could also be:

bought this from me or that from me, or I don't know, something like that.

could also be:

Right.

could also be:

You're pulling them apart that way.

Ronn Burner:

Yeah, I think engagement is that's really the

Ronn Burner:

besides customer and non-customer.

Ronn Burner:

It's engagement, I call it proof of life.

Ronn Burner:

Both you gentlemen, we worked together previously and proof of life was

Ronn Burner:

always something that I was into as it relates to data hygiene, the database

Ronn Burner:

hygiene, if you've reached out via telephone or email numerous times

Ronn Burner:

in a period of time and there was no indication whatsoever that there was

Ronn Burner:

even somebody on the other end of it.

Ronn Burner:

I would certainly put those in a bucket.

Ronn Burner:

It doesn't mean ignore them.

Ronn Burner:

It just means treat them differently and approach them a little differently.

Ronn Burner:

That's...

Ronn Burner:

that's one way...

Ronn Burner:

Matt?

Matt Widmyer:

Yeah.

Matt Widmyer:

We all lived in this world for a while.

Matt Widmyer:

I think to the point where I started having dreams and sometimes even

Matt Widmyer:

nightmares about it of slice and dice everyone in your, a CRM, but some of the

Matt Widmyer:

stuff we tried, I mean, we tried industry.

Matt Widmyer:

And I think that makes the most sense if you work in

Matt Widmyer:

multiple industries, like we do.

Matt Widmyer:

The day to day of a dentist versus somebody who pours concrete

Matt Widmyer:

versus somebody who is the manager at a lollipop factory is going

Matt Widmyer:

to be extremely different, you know, from person to person.

Matt Widmyer:

Also, what role do they have within the business?

Matt Widmyer:

So the title is also really key.

Matt Widmyer:

And then as Kevin alluded to the relationship they have, are they

Matt Widmyer:

a customer, did they used to be a customer or are they a prospect?

Matt Widmyer:

Are they somebody who we are just like trying to actively pursue and

Matt Widmyer:

where are they in the process too?

Matt Widmyer:

So all that stuff, you'd have to kind of assess what you have to in

Matt Widmyer:

terms of data points is, you know, do you have their phone numbers?

Matt Widmyer:

I can't tell you how many times sales managers came to me and

Matt Widmyer:

said, "Hey, we should run an email campaign or a phone campaign."

Matt Widmyer:

And then there's either no phone numbers, or no email addresses.

Matt Widmyer:

And it's like, "Okay, we have to start after we spent all this

Matt Widmyer:

time building this big thing out."

Matt Widmyer:

And then we have to go back to square one.

Matt Widmyer:

So that's always step one is assessing the situation, seeing what

Matt Widmyer:

you're actually working with first.

Kevin Dieny:

Right.

Kevin Dieny:

The next thing I wanted to dive into was a different approach on this.

Kevin Dieny:

So let's say we divide the digital idea from a non-digital idea.

Kevin Dieny:

So one of the non ones would be, let's say like direct mail, right?

Kevin Dieny:

If you do have.

Kevin Dieny:

If we're talking non-digital, it's like a spreadsheet of addresses.

Kevin Dieny:

If you just have a businesses, can you looking at your billing system?

Kevin Dieny:

Everyone who bought from me, I do have an address on maybe they're not in a CRM.

Kevin Dieny:

Maybe I'm more of like a brick and mortar type place.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay, I'm going to send some direct mail to an entire zip code around my

Kevin Dieny:

business, like a restaurant might, might think of doing something like that.

Kevin Dieny:

What do I need to send a bunch of mailers around my area?

Kevin Dieny:

What's involved in that because when you're talking about a proven marketing

Kevin Dieny:

idea, are you looking for an idea that's proven to generate whatever

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the goal is, like a customers in your door or business to your site, or just

Kevin Dieny:

greater awareness that you exist in the area you just opened up or something.

Kevin Dieny:

When it comes to proving it, you also have to set up with it, some form of

Kevin Dieny:

how you're going to track this thing.

Kevin Dieny:

There are a lot of marketing ideas that don't let that work.

Kevin Dieny:

But let's say they're hard to track.

Kevin Dieny:

There's some that are maybe won't work so well, but they're easy to track.

Kevin Dieny:

They run the gamut right of where they are in their abilities

Kevin Dieny:

and where like capabilities of bringing in whatever your goal is.

Kevin Dieny:

And then on the other side, how hard and how difficult is this to track?

Kevin Dieny:

And if it's like, "Okay, how many people walked in my door of my shop or business?"

Kevin Dieny:

Or, "How many people came to us from this specific marketing idea?"

Kevin Dieny:

So Matt, what ideas do you have for, let's say tracking some of

Kevin Dieny:

these ideas that you think would help, prove that they had some lift?

Matt Widmyer:

Yeah.

Matt Widmyer:

So obviously the easy one is to ask somebody how they heard about you, right?

Matt Widmyer:

And, you know, cross your fingers and hope they tell the truth.

Matt Widmyer:

You could also do call tracking.

Matt Widmyer:

That's what we do as a company.

Matt Widmyer:

You know somebody is calling in, but you can do flyers, you can do coupons....

Matt Widmyer:

I mean, there's definitely ways to track and then you also would need a landing

Matt Widmyer:

place for that in the CRM as well.

Matt Widmyer:

Right?

Matt Widmyer:

So in the form of a, some kind of a unique field or unless you're using

Matt Widmyer:

like campaigns or, or something like that in your CRM this kind

Matt Widmyer:

of way to tie it back together.

Matt Widmyer:

Did I answer your question there?

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

I know there's lots of popular, like trackable phone numbers, QR codes a

Kevin Dieny:

website link that has a like UTM parameter shortened so it's not super long, you

Kevin Dieny:

could ask someone, there's geo fence.

Kevin Dieny:

There's some things that come to mind.

Kevin Dieny:

Did we miss anything Ronn that you wanted to add to that?

Ronn Burner:

You touched on a lot of them the difficulty is not knowing

Ronn Burner:

what a company has at their disposal.

Ronn Burner:

Like what resources do they have, because certainly you can really get into the

Ronn Burner:

weeds with attribution and tracking and you can get down to where they've clicked.

Ronn Burner:

You know, even a couple of places after they've left you.

Ronn Burner:

I mean, you can really get into it.

Ronn Burner:

But from a variable...

Ronn Burner:

basic fundamental level I do think, like you mentioned, it's priority to have a

Ronn Burner:

website and it's a priority to have some form of database because without that,

Ronn Burner:

there's no way to differentiate one person from the other and one might be super,

Ronn Burner:

highly engaged and buy all your content.

Ronn Burner:

Somebody might not even respond to you.

Ronn Burner:

So you absolutely need some form of sorting of that.

Ronn Burner:

Some sort of database I would say for attribution.

Ronn Burner:

And if you want to use a link, if it's something linkable, even if

Ronn Burner:

it's a mailer or I know Kevin and I, we've talked about Bitly there's

Ronn Burner:

different ways to use a PURL.

Ronn Burner:

And like Matt said coupons and stuff.

Ronn Burner:

If you're in the store sort of business that can offer some sort of promo code or

Ronn Burner:

some sort of identifier, the whole point is incentivize, if you want activity or

Ronn Burner:

engagement from somebody they most likely need to be incentivized in some way.

Ronn Burner:

And that doesn't mean talking about all the features that your product has.

Ronn Burner:

It means talking about all the value that you can give them.

Ronn Burner:

And when there's value offered that incentivizes some way, or somehow to

Ronn Burner:

get them to then do your ask, which is, you know, contact them, fill out

Ronn Burner:

the form and the fill out the form can have with a field specifically that

Ronn Burner:

they need to punch in a promo code, or you can even have a hidden field,

Ronn Burner:

like a lot of you know, automation, instances and stuff have hidden forms.

Ronn Burner:

So when that activity, the click, whether it's a mailer or an email will

Ronn Burner:

then take them to the page, which has it is creating a query string there.

Ronn Burner:

They're filling out the form and now it's populated in hidden data for you.

Ronn Burner:

And they've just profiled themselves.

Ronn Burner:

You didn't have to do anything.

Ronn Burner:

All they did was your action, which was your success.

Ronn Burner:

And they profiled themselves by telling you exactly what it is

Ronn Burner:

they want or are interested in.

Ronn Burner:

That's kind of the perfect world.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, I was thinking about that because of projects we've

Kevin Dieny:

worked on, one of the things that came to mind for me was urgency.

Kevin Dieny:

So when it comes to a marketing idea, let's call them longer term,

Kevin Dieny:

like an investment in a website.

Kevin Dieny:

It's definitely not an investment in just a one-time one go thing, because

Kevin Dieny:

so many campaigns can use the website.

Kevin Dieny:

It's kind of like a predominant product marketing.

Kevin Dieny:

Even if you don't necessarily like your product, isn't like sold on your website.

Kevin Dieny:

It's it is sort of your brand presence online.

Kevin Dieny:

Not every company has people visit its website.

Kevin Dieny:

There's lots of businesses that we've worked with.

Kevin Dieny:

And I've worked with over time that the website almost seems like a

Kevin Dieny:

necessary evil, but here's the thing....

Kevin Dieny:

The inner connectedness of everything, even online to offline does require more

Kevin Dieny:

and more that businesses do a few things.

Kevin Dieny:

And the starter kit for businesses nowadays seems like it includes a website.

Kevin Dieny:

A connected way of putting your website on what's called listing sites.

Kevin Dieny:

Google my business is probably the most predominant one, but the

Kevin Dieny:

yellow pages used to be the tried and true right back in the day.

Kevin Dieny:

Even businesses that probably weren't getting a whole lot of leads from it.

Kevin Dieny:

People could source it.

Kevin Dieny:

And that's how it got more awareness out there.

Kevin Dieny:

So.

Kevin Dieny:

I think that if you're looking at what are some of the basics I need for , urgency?

Kevin Dieny:

If you want leads this month, then okay.

Kevin Dieny:

A website kind of takes a little longer than a month to get going.

Kevin Dieny:

So maybe there's something else that you can do, but at what cycle and how

Kevin Dieny:

frequent, how immediate is this need that a marketing idea has to solve for, right?

Kevin Dieny:

Cause like you can go Google some marketing ideas.

Kevin Dieny:

And it'll probably say, "Google my business, social media, get your website

Kevin Dieny:

in order, send emails, call people...."

Kevin Dieny:

But again, what resources do you have?

Kevin Dieny:

It's hard to get those going quickly.

Kevin Dieny:

For a small business, every single month that goes by without leads

Kevin Dieny:

and you've spent money is terrible.

Kevin Dieny:

So what's a fast way that you can, let's say ... get some people through

Kevin Dieny:

the door, get some business going.

Kevin Dieny:

So how about you, Matt?

Kevin Dieny:

Do you have any idea for something that's a fast idea?

Kevin Dieny:

Something that you could see the turnaround on within a

Kevin Dieny:

months time of launching.

Matt Widmyer:

Is this a loaded question?

Ronn Burner:

I'm glad you're going first!

Matt Widmyer:

No, I mean, that's, that's what, as an SDR manager, that's what

Matt Widmyer:

we live and die by on the telephone right now, at least for right now.

Matt Widmyer:

That's that's our fallback, right?

Matt Widmyer:

So the way I look at it, as if everything else went away the

Matt Widmyer:

phone would still be there.

Matt Widmyer:

And that's what we kind of need to sustain.

Matt Widmyer:

Sure.

Matt Widmyer:

You can go and test the waters with other things, but you want to

Matt Widmyer:

be able to eventually assess how other things are doing, but you

Matt Widmyer:

do those in tandem with the phone.

Matt Widmyer:

The phone never goes away because you're introducing those other things.

Matt Widmyer:

So if you have an audience of people, the only thing you really need to be able to

use on the phone is:

who are you talking to you and B what are you going to say?

use on the phone is:

So this is where you really need to get into, you know, knowing

use on the phone is:

what your products actually do and why somebody is going to take the

use on the phone is:

time to listen to you on the phone.

use on the phone is:

Because a lot of the prospects we call.

use on the phone is:

We aren't the only ones calling them.

use on the phone is:

So you have a good 10 to 15 seconds the whole time, and they're thinking, "Why am

use on the phone is:

I going to continue this conversation?"

use on the phone is:

If you don't hit the mark, then it's either a callback

use on the phone is:

or it's not going to happen.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

And also there are sites that have make available, phone numbers for purchase.

Kevin Dieny:

It's a little different than emailing; emails have a lot more scrutiny.

Kevin Dieny:

There is a do not call, so don't, don't mess with that.

Kevin Dieny:

You can get in trouble for that, but there are databases and things you can do.

Kevin Dieny:

If you're calling, if your customers are businesses, you could just look

Kevin Dieny:

up, Google some businesses nearby and find their number, but it's

Kevin Dieny:

trying to reach those people it becomes a little, little tougher.

Kevin Dieny:

It's going after customers, if you're B to C, right?

Kevin Dieny:

Is it worth my time to open up the white pages and call down on a list of people.

Kevin Dieny:

But there are curated lists and things you can get, I would say phone numbers

Kevin Dieny:

are probably on the safer side.

Kevin Dieny:

If you're just calling them cold, I think that's probably

Kevin Dieny:

one of the fastest methods.

Kevin Dieny:

Like within 10 minutes you could probably call someone, maybe make

Kevin Dieny:

a sale or, or at least get someone through the door depending on

Kevin Dieny:

what it is you're talking about.

Kevin Dieny:

But yeah, that's a good one to jump into if you wanted.

Ronn Burner:

Phone is obviously the Quicken and easy.

Ronn Burner:

The problem with the phone as everybody knows is I don't answer anything

Ronn Burner:

that I don't know that's coming in.

Ronn Burner:

And nowadays my phone tells me exactly who's calling whether

Ronn Burner:

they want me to know or not.

Ronn Burner:

So it's just hard to catch people when they're like, "Oh, I can take this."

Ronn Burner:

I would say to your point originally about urgency, first of all, I would devote

Ronn Burner:

all my time on getting a website because how do you expect, just ask yourself

Ronn Burner:

this, how do I expect people to find us?

Ronn Burner:

If you don't have a website, you can't be found.

Ronn Burner:

I mean, nobody's scrolling through yellow pages or white pages like that.

Ronn Burner:

It's difficult to envision any sort of traction outside of word of

Ronn Burner:

mouth or outside of a direct contact with somebody to ever be found.

Ronn Burner:

So that ROI on whatever time it takes to slow down your process

Ronn Burner:

to get the website up and running and then post things to a blog.

Ronn Burner:

Obviously the perfect world is blogs, just so you've become more and more

Ronn Burner:

and more searchable, to get into Google ads and all of those types of things.

Ronn Burner:

But aside from that the original point was urgency.

Ronn Burner:

And I would say if you're lucky enough to have the situation where you can

Ronn Burner:

offer, if there's a profit margin or some way to incentivize, and I always

Ronn Burner:

use the example of at a Lakers game.

Ronn Burner:

So taco bell will give every single American a free taco if the

Ronn Burner:

Lakers score 100 points, right?

Ronn Burner:

So a taco is 39 cents or whatever it is, but it's brilliant.

Ronn Burner:

And the reason it's brilliant is because they're getting you in the

Ronn Burner:

door and you're are now spending money.

Ronn Burner:

There's no way, very, very few people are going there for

Ronn Burner:

that one, single free taco.

Ronn Burner:

They're going there and since they got the free taco, they're

Ronn Burner:

going to order more things.

Ronn Burner:

So same with the stolen base thing.

Ronn Burner:

So the idea of giving things away sounds on the surface.

Ronn Burner:

Like, no, no, no, no, we can't do that.

Ronn Burner:

Well, the idea is you want traffic and you want customers, so it depends on

Ronn Burner:

what your product suite looks like, but that is also like some sort of promotion,

Ronn Burner:

some sort of campaign that you can run.

Ronn Burner:

If you have the ability to email, if you have the ability to do the mail or

Ronn Burner:

like we discussed earlier, some sort of promotional campaign to incentivize

Ronn Burner:

based on urgency and based on value.

Ronn Burner:

Which is, you know, black Friday lives on this sort of a thing.

Ronn Burner:

But you can't go broke making a profit.

Ronn Burner:

So if you give something away for 10% off, you're still got 90%

Ronn Burner:

that you didn't have otherwise.

Kevin Dieny:

The offer, the magnet, the thing that whatever

Kevin Dieny:

gets them there that's huge too.

Kevin Dieny:

If you think about that, because some offers don't fit the medium very well.

Kevin Dieny:

For instance, like calling people, just to see if they want 10% off

Kevin Dieny:

something that they don't even know, they want may not work out so well.

Kevin Dieny:

But if someone's already looking for something like on Google ads or

Kevin Dieny:

the drive by a billboard and they're already have something in mind and they

Kevin Dieny:

see the 10% or 25% off or whatever.

Kevin Dieny:

Then that kind of does get them past a hurdle.

Kevin Dieny:

An offer of price is usually trying to combat a price rebuttal, where

Kevin Dieny:

someone's like, "This price is too much!"

Kevin Dieny:

Your product may not be worth it in their eyes because they

Kevin Dieny:

don't quite see the value.

Kevin Dieny:

So it lowers that initial cost of them, maybe trying something

Kevin Dieny:

totally new, like restaurants.

Kevin Dieny:

It's very risky to try a brand new restaurant versus going to one that,

Kevin Dieny:

you know, has been open for a while and you've tried for a while and has a legacy.

Kevin Dieny:

So reviews help a ton with that.

Kevin Dieny:

Right?

Kevin Dieny:

Like they can kind of be that, "Okay, I'll trust somebody else's word of mouth."

Kevin Dieny:

If you want people in quicker, if you want some urgency and you're

Kevin Dieny:

capable of lowering your initial price requirement of coming in or giving some

Kevin Dieny:

sort of an incentivized discount or like, "Hey, if you bring your friend

Kevin Dieny:

with you, then you get 25%, like instead of 10%" or something, just

Kevin Dieny:

to get more people through the door.

Kevin Dieny:

Those are a lot of good ideas.

Kevin Dieny:

And what you actually craft your message to be of the marketing campaigns.

Kevin Dieny:

So that's really good stuff.

Kevin Dieny:

Okay...

Kevin Dieny:

the last thing is kind of more open for you guys.

Kevin Dieny:

So is there anything else that you thought about, or that we haven't

Kevin Dieny:

talked about that you wanted to mention?

Kevin Dieny:

So I'll start with Ronn on this one.

Kevin Dieny:

Is there anything that you thought of before that hasn't been brought

Kevin Dieny:

up yet you wanted to jump into?

Ronn Burner:

Oh, marketing is such a vast pool.

Ronn Burner:

We barely just touched on the very, very basic things.

Ronn Burner:

Something that both of you have heard me say often in all the years and meetings

Ronn Burner:

we've been in together is "Keep it simple, stupid" and the only reason I say that

Ronn Burner:

is building some sort of infrastructure, some sort of foundation that you

Ronn Burner:

can build on because the foundation built correctly can always be...

Ronn Burner:

growth happens.

Ronn Burner:

Growth will happen as you evolve, as your resources come in, as traffic comes

Ronn Burner:

in, all of these things will naturally grow and it will grow at a way that's

Ronn Burner:

sustainable simply because you put in place the proper foundation to support it.

Ronn Burner:

And as you grow.

Ronn Burner:

And as it grows you're able to now dive into more of the software that's required.

Ronn Burner:

More of the segmenting which is required which is, you know, segmenting

Ronn Burner:

is going to be very important to speak to them specifically.

Ronn Burner:

I guess the only thing I would add that we haven't really touched on

Ronn Burner:

is I think of it as a relationship.

Ronn Burner:

So when you're building a rapport with them.

Ronn Burner:

They're not your customers, you're not trying to do a bait and switch.

Ronn Burner:

You're not trying to do anything other than build a relationship with them.

Ronn Burner:

Because back to the website thing, brand reputation is king like a good reputation.

Ronn Burner:

It goes or bad reputation is another way better way to look at it.

Ronn Burner:

Is, if you start to get a bad reputation it's curtains.

Ronn Burner:

So building that relationship and the thing that a relationship

Ronn Burner:

building does is it keeps them loyal.

Ronn Burner:

And retention is a king, even though marketing, a lot of people don't realize

Ronn Burner:

that, but keeping your customers is more important than getting a new one.

Ronn Burner:

Retention also does something else, and that is word of mouth.

Ronn Burner:

That's free marketing, that's free advertising.

Ronn Burner:

And when you can generate a buzz and when people are talking to their friend,

Ronn Burner:

like, "You know, what do you know, what I, what I did, this is great.

Ronn Burner:

You should check this out."

Ronn Burner:

That sort of buzz only comes from your relationship that you've established

Ronn Burner:

with them and from your rapport and from being honest enough where they trust you.

Ronn Burner:

And when they trust you, that's when they're going to start recommending you.

Ronn Burner:

And that's when they're going to keep coming back.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah, I think one of the subtle things you mentioned there I

Kevin Dieny:

wanted to highlight was when you get to the point of, let's say you're a

Kevin Dieny:

business running one campaign at a time.

Kevin Dieny:

So I'm focusing on my website or I'm focusing on SEO or I'm focusing

Kevin Dieny:

on ads or I'm sending mailers.

Kevin Dieny:

You will see a tremendous lift when you overlap multiple channels

Kevin Dieny:

and multiple things over time.

Kevin Dieny:

So it's sort of like reinvesting in the campaigns, you may see

Kevin Dieny:

this campaign worked better than that one so I want to do this one.

Kevin Dieny:

You might not have the budget or the capabilities of doing multiple

Kevin Dieny:

things at the same time, but if you do get to that point of having

Kevin Dieny:

multiple channels, multiple campaigns overlapping over each other, helping

Kevin Dieny:

each other it definitely gets it out there in a compounded, and amped way.

Kevin Dieny:

It just helps some channels help others.

Kevin Dieny:

So a campaign on its own may not work as well as campaigns lifted by multiple

Kevin Dieny:

others, but that does require again, looking at it from what it requires, it

Kevin Dieny:

may require more resources and may require something else that you don't have.

Kevin Dieny:

So if you're not there yet, You have to pick.

Kevin Dieny:

"Which one do I think is going to work best?"

Kevin Dieny:

And then, you go with that.

Kevin Dieny:

And based on what you have, the ones that will be the cheapest for

Kevin Dieny:

you, are based on the ones that you have most of the stuff, right.

Kevin Dieny:

It's like, do I have all the ingredients to make this cake or do I have to go

Kevin Dieny:

all the way to the store to get it?

Kevin Dieny:

Anything you have that you can make work with?

Kevin Dieny:

What you have will be cheaper.

Ronn Burner:

The other key point, there is all of those channels with the same

Ronn Burner:

messaging, which I totally agree with you, you hit the nail on the head there, all of

Ronn Burner:

those channels with that same messaging.

Ronn Burner:

A, it can be done with one.

Ronn Burner:

And then you tinker it for the other channels for social media or

Ronn Burner:

whatever, but what do they all do?

Ronn Burner:

They're all driving them back to the website that you should have.

Ronn Burner:

That's the key.

Kevin Dieny:

Matt, is there anything we didn't dive into

Kevin Dieny:

that you wanted to touch upon?

Matt Widmyer:

Yeah, I think the phones are our bread and butter.

Matt Widmyer:

Right.

Matt Widmyer:

But it, if it makes sense to do only, only be calling somebody,

Matt Widmyer:

you know, it doesnt, right.

Matt Widmyer:

It doesn't, it could still probably get by barely on that, but we need

Matt Widmyer:

the emails, we need the chats, we need everything else that comes along with it.

Matt Widmyer:

Love how, Ronn mentioned also the value of taking care of somebody,

Matt Widmyer:

giving them a good experience, right.

Matt Widmyer:

They're going to be back and not only are they going to be

Matt Widmyer:

back, they're going to be happy.

Matt Widmyer:

They're going to be talking about you, reviewing you.

Matt Widmyer:

And now they're going to be telling all their friends about you too.

Matt Widmyer:

So that's I think where every business should strive to be.

Matt Widmyer:

Because it doesn't cost anything.

Matt Widmyer:

Right.

Matt Widmyer:

It's just you doing what you're supposed to, what you're supposed

Matt Widmyer:

to be doing in the first place.

Matt Widmyer:

Right?

Matt Widmyer:

What you've promised your customers, if you're going to do

Matt Widmyer:

before they even did walk through your doors for the first time.

Matt Widmyer:

I think that testing is critical.

Matt Widmyer:

You have to figure out how long you're going to run a test for.

Matt Widmyer:

If you're running something for three months and it's expensive and you don't

Matt Widmyer:

even see a light at the end of the tunnel, Pull the plug cut your losses.

Matt Widmyer:

And, it's not a loss because you've learned a lesson right now.

Matt Widmyer:

Wasn't the time to do that.

Matt Widmyer:

Maybe you revisit some other time, but hopefully you have something else

Matt Widmyer:

that you're armed with now that you can take into next time you try that.

Matt Widmyer:

If you ever bother trying it again.

Matt Widmyer:

There's a fine balance and this is where it's really gonna depend

Matt Widmyer:

on the capabilities and what the company is actually working

Matt Widmyer:

with, the budget, all that stuff.

Matt Widmyer:

There's a balance between how hard you're physically working and what

Matt Widmyer:

you're actually doing and how much money you're actually spending.

Matt Widmyer:

There's a little bit of a correlation there.

Matt Widmyer:

Right?

Matt Widmyer:

Cause the more you're spending, the less you're actually doing, if we

Matt Widmyer:

had no budget at all, I mean, it only cost them a phone bill to pick

Matt Widmyer:

up the phone and call somebody.

Matt Widmyer:

So that's about it and the cost of a person, if you're paying a person to do

Matt Widmyer:

that, but still that's I think that's where, how we can skate by, on just

Matt Widmyer:

that channel is because it's usually a little bit more cost-effective.

Matt Widmyer:

Now, if we had all the budget in the world...

Matt Widmyer:

yeah, sure, let's send everybody, a $1,000 gift card to take a demo.

Matt Widmyer:

I don't think our price point justifies that, but it'd be a

Matt Widmyer:

really easy way to serve the market.

Matt Widmyer:

And then just look at spam if it was that much anyway, but you know, I think

Matt Widmyer:

that if you find some kind of a ROI point - what are you hoping to achieve?

Matt Widmyer:

So you should think about all this stuff before you go too far down the road,

Matt Widmyer:

especially spending money or dedicating a lot of time, on something like this.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

Yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

So, I'll do a quick summary here.

Kevin Dieny:

The things we talked about, the things that stood out to me...

Kevin Dieny:

The first one was look at what resources and what things you have to begin with.

Kevin Dieny:

What do you have to work with so you know, this is maybe the

Kevin Dieny:

marketing ideas I could do.

Kevin Dieny:

The ones you have the most stuff for the most resources, the most

Kevin Dieny:

database, the most information for the most access to maybe, you

Kevin Dieny:

know, a friend who can hook you up.

Kevin Dieny:

Whatever things you have to go with it.

Kevin Dieny:

Definitely look there first and it may not necessarily be the best ideas in there.

Kevin Dieny:

So then it's like, "Okay, well, where do I have to go outside?"

Kevin Dieny:

Maybe have to spend some money, and maybe I have to hire

Kevin Dieny:

somebody like Matt was saying.

Kevin Dieny:

Because in the second part is like, how do I prove it?

Kevin Dieny:

If there's no way of tracking it, you're kind of just hoping and throwing

Kevin Dieny:

it out there, hoping that it works.

Kevin Dieny:

The other people might've said, "Oh, this works."

Kevin Dieny:

And so you trust them, but having a trackable way to prove

Kevin Dieny:

what you've done is humongous.

Kevin Dieny:

And any time that you have any doubts about whether something's working,

Kevin Dieny:

you can go back and look at that.

Kevin Dieny:

That's huge.

Kevin Dieny:

That's enormous for, for other people to be able to repeat , and

Kevin Dieny:

for you to be able to hand that off.

Kevin Dieny:

You can see inflection points or hinge points of what really makes

Kevin Dieny:

that thing sing and makes that work.

Kevin Dieny:

And then the last thing was touched upon with what Ronn and Matt were saying,

Kevin Dieny:

which is when you get going with some of these ideas, "How do you know they work?"

Kevin Dieny:

"How do you know you're happy with what you're getting?

Kevin Dieny:

And having a baseline of, okay, my product sells for $200 or $50 a

Kevin Dieny:

month, or I know the average meal that I serve is about $15-20 bucks.

Kevin Dieny:

Or knowing your revenues and your costs, and then your breakevens of, I need to

Kevin Dieny:

at least make this much sits with the other things, because you can afford to

Kevin Dieny:

spend more or spend more resources in something that maybe has a higher return.

Kevin Dieny:

You could also do more with something that costs less initially.

Kevin Dieny:

And if you're tracking it along the way, at any point, you can be like, okay,

Kevin Dieny:

this isn't working, I can cut it out.

Kevin Dieny:

You don't just have to go the full time and then realize this is bad for me.

Kevin Dieny:

So those stood out to me at least for finding a good marketing idea.

Kevin Dieny:

And obviously we didn't tell you exactly like what to do with a social post.

Kevin Dieny:

We didn't really go into the specifics of each marketing idea because I

Kevin Dieny:

think what matters more is finding one that's suitable for your business.

Kevin Dieny:

And.

Kevin Dieny:

I think that comes out of, subjectively what is going on in your business and what

Kevin Dieny:

can you do and what can you afford to do?

Kevin Dieny:

And what are you looking at?

Kevin Dieny:

Are you the business that has the thousand dollar gift card capability?

Kevin Dieny:

Or are you just like, man, I just need, I don't even have a website yet.

Kevin Dieny:

So it all fits into those things.

Kevin Dieny:

We know it's difficult and it's hard.

Kevin Dieny:

And every dollar you spend is a dollar you could put in your pocket.

Kevin Dieny:

So it's definitely gotta be worthwhile.

Kevin Dieny:

So, any last minute thoughts you guys wanted to chime in on?

Kevin Dieny:

And then we'll kind of close out.

Kevin Dieny:

So we'll start with Matt.

Matt Widmyer:

I think just whatever you decide to do once

Matt Widmyer:

you reach that point where you decide this is finally scalable...

Matt Widmyer:

I can double down and pour more money into this and then just run with it.

Matt Widmyer:

You have to always look at, like right now I have half a dozen people on my team.

Matt Widmyer:

If I had one person, what would I be doing?

Matt Widmyer:

And if I had a hundred people, what would I be doing?

Matt Widmyer:

How do I get a hundred people?

Matt Widmyer:

Gosh, wouldn't that be cool.

Matt Widmyer:

But you have to look at like, okay, if it's not working with one or five or 10,

Matt Widmyer:

it's not going to work with a hundred.

Matt Widmyer:

So the little operational kinks and stuff like that you need to take

Matt Widmyer:

care of before you get to that point, but I think scalability is huge.

Matt Widmyer:

And that is the main benefit.

Matt Widmyer:

I'm such a CRM fanboy too, when it comes to getting the data in there and

Matt Widmyer:

getting all the right data, getting the accurate data and keeping up to date.

Matt Widmyer:

That's really, the only way you're going to scale a business is by

Matt Widmyer:

having a solid CRM infrastructure.

Matt Widmyer:

And then obviously, like Ronn said, website's great.

Matt Widmyer:

Website's great for us too, because anytime somebody doesn't know what the

Matt Widmyer:

heck we're talking about on the phone, you can just have them visit our website

Matt Widmyer:

and kind of explore at their own leisure.

Matt Widmyer:

Right.

Matt Widmyer:

So all those things are super important.

Matt Widmyer:

Super scalable.

Ronn Burner:

Yeah, I'll piggyback off of that because I've said it several

Ronn Burner:

times, even on this call scalability and sustainability is something

Ronn Burner:

that I say in the consulting and implementing marketing departments

Ronn Burner:

for organizations, because often times there's grandiose ideas and you can get

Ronn Burner:

there, but you need to get there and you need to get there in a way that's

Ronn Burner:

efficient in a way that makes sense.

Ronn Burner:

So not only is scalable applied to the database and things of

Ronn Burner:

that nature, which is massive.

Ronn Burner:

I agree a hundred percent.

Ronn Burner:

And I believe it applies also to process like you need to have a processes

Ronn Burner:

in place of what you're going to do.

Ronn Burner:

And that's why I always go back to having a game plan, map out what you want to do,

Ronn Burner:

what your plan is, think ahead 90 days.

Ronn Burner:

Then start building in pieces, so its scalable, and then you're going to go over

Ronn Burner:

these 90 days and always be 90 days ahead.

Ronn Burner:

The reason I say 90 days is because, to launch a campaign and then even

Ronn Burner:

to use the additional channels with the same messaging to drive them

Ronn Burner:

back to your website, like we already discussed, but the reason I say at

Ronn Burner:

90 days is then what, like then what?

Ronn Burner:

And it goes back to reporting and it goes back to attribution.

Ronn Burner:

The 90 day plan says, okay, I do want to do this, go to market

Ronn Burner:

strategy or whatever this plan is, whatever this promotion is, right.

Ronn Burner:

But after that, this is where I want to go.

Ronn Burner:

And then after that, this is where I want to go.

Ronn Burner:

So now you're doing some sort of a cadence and some sort of a

Ronn Burner:

frequency, and you're being consistent with your messaging to them.

Ronn Burner:

So just think in terms of game plan and even little wins at first, and

Ronn Burner:

then, like I say, you add on that.

Ronn Burner:

But game plan and process, because the better your efficiency becomes the better

Ronn Burner:

the performance will be on the other end, because it's going to now open up

Ronn Burner:

the opportunities to put work elsewhere into the strategy into other areas.

Ronn Burner:

Because you're not so tied up trying to do double the work because your

Ronn Burner:

processes just aren't efficient.

Matt Widmyer:

Yeah.

Matt Widmyer:

How did you refer to that in the past Ronn, digging a pool, with a shovel?

Ronn Burner:

Right?

Ronn Burner:

Yeah, you can dig a pool with a shovel or you can dig it with a high performance

Ronn Burner:

machine and the end result can absolutely be the same, but how you get there,

Ronn Burner:

is it two very different worlds?

Matt Widmyer:

Yeah.

Kevin Dieny:

I think anyone listening to this might have like alright, maybe

Kevin Dieny:

I'm walking away from this with not the best idea that's going to work

Kevin Dieny:

for my specific business per se, but a toolkit of how to get there.

Kevin Dieny:

And that's really exciting.

Kevin Dieny:

I think if you can go to your office, your home, wherever you're working right

Kevin Dieny:

now and be like, "Okay, I'm just going to write some notes down, I'm going to take

Kevin Dieny:

a look and see, I'm going to look into my database, I'm going to take a pretty good

Kevin Dieny:

look around at my business and see what I really have; when I can work with might

Kevin Dieny:

be different than my neighbor's business.

Kevin Dieny:

Or if I look over at the store next to me, or my competitors might have

Kevin Dieny:

different resources than they do.

Kevin Dieny:

So I may not make sense to just copy every single thing that they do."

Kevin Dieny:

At the end of the day, it's going to come down to what you can pull off, what you

Kevin Dieny:

can prove, what's going to raise money.

Kevin Dieny:

What is going to meet the goals that you have and you can start small.

Kevin Dieny:

So I want to thank all the listeners who've tuned in to this episode.

Kevin Dieny:

And when it comes to connecting with us I wanted to ask you guys, what's

Kevin Dieny:

the best way for someone to reach out to you and connect with you.

Kevin Dieny:

Matt, what's a good way for someone to let's say, find you, connect

Kevin Dieny:

with you, or ask you any kind of questions from this that they'd have?

Matt Widmyer:

Yeah, sure.

Matt Widmyer:

You can find me on LinkedIn.

Matt Widmyer:

Matt Widmyer it's M a T T a w I D M a Y E R.

Matt Widmyer:

Or you can email me at my CallSource email: M widmyer@callsource.com.

Kevin Dieny:

Cool.

Kevin Dieny:

How about you Ronn?

Ronn Burner:

Yeah.

Ronn Burner:

You got to keep it simple so they don't have to jump all over.

Ronn Burner:

I'm also on LinkedIn and Ronn Burner, R O N N very tricky burner, B U R N E R.

Ronn Burner:

And I sometimes check my LinkedIn....

Ronn Burner:

Kevin Dieny:

, So you can find us, I'm on LinkedIn as well.

Kevin Dieny:

There's also the show page, show notes, everything will be there.

Kevin Dieny:

So thanks everybody for tuning in, really appreciate it.

Kevin Dieny:

Hope you are excited to jump into some new marketing idea or maybe even to turn

Kevin Dieny:

off a marketing idea that you probably realize is not working out so well,

Kevin Dieny:

maybe you should go do something else.

Kevin Dieny:

So it's all progress.

Kevin Dieny:

So thank you everybody.

Kevin Dieny:

Have a good day.

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