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Busy season. Burnout. Unclear career paths. For many accountants, these realities defined the profession for decades.

In the third episode of season two, Chelsea Summers and Rob Brown continue Rewriting the Story of Accounting. They discuss how firms are rethinking the employee experience through more balanced workloads, advisory services, greater flexibility, transparency and AI adoption — and why these changes matter for retention and the future of the profession.

Follow the podcast for future episodes as we continue exploring the trends shaping the accounting profession.

Learn more about INSIDE Public Accounting: https://insidepublicaccounting.com

So being upfront with staff about the changes happening across the whole profession. Generational shifts, evolving roles, and and then yes, AI. Staff can handle that change. What they cannot handle is feeling like change is happening around them and they're in the dark.

Welcome back to the Inside Public Accounting Podcast. Now a series on rewriting the story of accounting. I'm Rob Brown here with Chelsea Summers. In the last episode we talked about the perception gap. This is the difference

stakeholder or one particular firm or society. So today's episode, we're gonna double down on the cultural shift that's already happened in inside accounting firms.

And I think already happening is the key phrase there. This is not a wish list. This is the stuff that's underway right now inside of the firms and the profession.

Yeah, and in in doing this series, Chelsea, we've got a little bit of space to do things like naming the stereotype first because everyone listening knows it. Brutal busy season, no flexibility, burnout treated like a badge of honor, like if you didn't suffer through burnout, you didn't earn your stripes, it's mental health comes out here. There's a lot to speak of.

Yeah. And here's what I'll say about that stereotype. It's not fiction. It is based in reality. And it was real for a long time. And in plenty of firms, it is still real today. So we're not here to pretend that that isn't true.

Yeah, and some firms are doing something about it. We talk about it quite a lot on this show, but what we're trying to do here is connect directly to what we talked about in our first episode, this perception gap.

Yeah, and the per perception gap exists because the old culture gave people a true story to tell. It was just a very unflattering one. If we want to close that gap, we actually have to change the story that we're describing, not just change the messaging around it.

So how bad is the burnout problem really, Chelsea? What have you got for us and what's driving it?

So a lot of it comes down to workload compression, meaning that the busiest periods get busier instead of that workload spreading out. Add to that an always on expectation enabled by technology now, where staff feel like they need to be reachable constantly. And you really get a recipe for exhaustion that has nothing to do with the the intellectual demands of the job.

Yeah, I'm just thinking of increased client expectations over the years and these firms that say we put our clients first, but that means having your phone on twenty four seven and being accessible all the time and that's just not sustainable. And this ties to the pipeline conversation I was having with Alex Romero at the AICPA last week.

Yeah, it does. People don't just leave because the work is hard. People leave because the work makes their life unsustainable. And prospective students hear about that from people already in the profession. So it shapes who even considers accounting as a possible career option in the first place.

So Chelsea, is there a specific moment or a pattern where we see this instability show up most clearly?

Yeah, so usually it's the second or third busy season. The first one people push through on adrenaline, almost like a rite of passage. It's the second or third where the math stops working. They look at the partners ahead of them and see the same pace expected for another 10, 15, 20 years. And they start asking, is this really the life I signed up for?

I see so many fans with good intentions saying, we've suffered this busy season, but we're going change things for next season. But then nothing does and they find themselves in the same situation. So it's less about any single bad week and more about doing the math on the whole career of accounting

Yeah. And that math used to be invisible. Now staff are talking to each other. They have forums and social media to compare notes across firms. And that math gets done out loud a lot earlier than it used to. Yeah.

Yeah, the whole whistleblowing culture that we're in right now. There's nothing sacred. Everything that happens inside the firm can be talked about outside the firm. So let's get practical, Chelsea. What are firms actually doing about this? Not just talking about it, but practically doing.

Yeah, so there's a few shifts. staggered deadlines. So everything doesn't slam at once. So workload smoothing, spreading work out more evenly across the year instead of compressing it into a few brutal months. utilizing both offshore employees and technology to absorb some of that repetitive manual work that used to eat up their hours during the busiest stretches. And then also more firms moving to advisory services means that more work can be spread out across the year as opposed to tax work focused around tax deadlines, for example.

Mm-hmm. We're hearing a lot about the advisory piece. Let's just camp on there for a second. It feels like the biggest structural shift is around that advisory, more than just adding headcount or better software.

Yeah, it is. And tax work is inherently seasonal. That deadline doesn't move, hopefully. Advisory work doesn't have the same clock. A client conversation about cash flow planning or growth strategy can happen in March or in August. It doesn't care about April 15th. so firms that build advisory practices aren't just working to diversify their revenue, they're they're smoothing out their staffing demands across the calendar.

And the offshore piece, the outsourcing piece, a few years ago it wasn't really accepted, but these days it is a a fundamental part of growing, scaling your accounting firm. So how does that fit in with without just becoming a story about outsourcing jobs away from the people here?

Yeah, right now two-thirds of the firms that complete the IPA practice management survey have some sort of offshoring. So it's something that most firms are doing. But it is a fair concern about offshoring jobs away. And firms need to be honest, which loops back into the transparency point we we're gonna get into a little bit later. But done well, offshore teams absorb the higher volume, lower complexity work, things like data entry or basic reconciliation. And that frees up their domestic staff for that higher value work.

earlier in their careers. It's not replacing their career path. It's removing maybe the most the the least interesting part of.

Mm, so public accountants won't be pleased to hear that busy season isn't going away, but the shape is changing, the direction of travel is changing, hopefully.

Yeah. And some firms really are questioning the premise themselves. Does busy season have to look the way it's always looked? A handful of firms are restructuring around that question rather than just trying to survive the old version of it.

We hear a lot about adaptability and flexibility in accounting firms. Let's stay with that for a moment. Remote work, hybrid schedules, flexible hours. Where does that stand right now with the firms you're talking to?

So that has moved from a perk to baseline expectations across most firms. A few years ago, flexibility was something a firm might offer to to really stand out. Now it's something that a candidate assumes exists and firms that haven't caught up are really losing people over it. Not because the work is harder, but because of the lack of flexibility, maybe signals that the culture hasn't moved with everybody else.

Yeah, and you talk a lot about retention. It's one of the flags you plant on your hills, Chelsea with your own thought leadership. It it's a retention issue now, it's not just a recruiting one.

Yeah, it's both. People are leaving the firms that haven't adapted and they're telling others why they've left.

Yeah, which is affecting the brand of accounting, the reputation of an accounting career. So how are the younger staff, these people coming in, how are they influencing this beyond just talking about it in surveys?

So the younger staff, I think, are asking different questions in their interviews. They're pushing back on the norms that used to get accepted quietly. Things like unclear expectations around hours or vague promises of advancement. And the firms that are listening to that pushback are evolving faster and keeping up with those questions.

I love that. These are bold people coming in and they've got every right to ask these tough questions. And if firms can't answer those, they're they're gonna be in trouble. So what kind of questions are we talking about specifically? I'm curious to know what that pushback looks like in an interview room.

Yeah, so candidates ask things like, what does a realistic week look like during busy season? Instead of just ex accepting that it it gets busy and and that's the answer. And they're asking how their performance might actually be measured, not just told if you work hard, you'll be noticed and promoted. They want the specifics. And if a firm can't answer with those specifics, that is information for them as well.

Yeah, and a bad answer is the same as no answer. I completely get that. So vague answers used to be good enough because accounting firms thought, well, we're giving them a job, we're giving them a career, they should be happy to work here, they should be honored to work here. But these people coming through, that's not good enough for them. And now they're seeing it as a red flag.

Yeah, I love the boundary setting from the the younger generations. This generation grew up with information at their fingertips about everything, including other firms, other industries, other career paths. So when a firm gives a fuzzy non-answer, candidates don't assume that the firm doesn't have it figured out. They assume the answer is bad and that the firm doesn't want to tell them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if your employer brand is strong, you should have answers to these questions. If it is weak, then the candidates will know that they're gonna be pushing back. but is it happening with staff already in firms too? It goes back to retention because people are coming out of established accounting roles and maybe going into tech or into industry or other things.

Yeah, and I think the internal pushback might matter more in the long term. So you got a staff that is a few years in who is willing to ask their manager directly why something is done a certain way instead of just absorbing it as that's how it's always been done. So a few years ago, that question may have gotten you labeled difficult. Now that the firms are evolving, it's getting you a seat in the conversation on how to fix that and how to make change.

Yeah, you were a trouble causer if you flagged up stuff like that last time and asked awkward questions. And this connects to episode one we did a couple of weeks back. This generation is the one that grew up hearing the old story, not liking it, looking for a new story.

Yeah, and their pushback really is not about preference. It's almost a referendum on the story that they were told. They're testing whether pr the profession actually matches what a firm claims it offers.

And if the firms can pass that test versus the ones that fail it, what does that actually look like a few years down the road for us?

So the firms that listen are gonna end up with staff who feel ownership over the culture because they helped shape that culture. So the firms that don't listen are gonna end up in those same turnover problems in a loop. Except now the people leaving go tell the next round of candidates why. That's the part that I think firms underestimate. This generation is not leaving quietly, they're leaving and explaining why on the way out.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I

must reiterate that people these days they want to be part of something. You don't need to have a grand vision, but you need to have an articulated vision and you need to have designed in advance what kind of firm you are. Because there were load loads of great but different firms and knowing what you're stepping into, that transparency, really, really important. And you talk a lot about transparency as as something keeps coming up. Why does it matter so much right now?

Yeah, so let me split it into two parts. First being internal transparency. How is the firm actually doing financially and operationally? And what does career progression look like? Not a vague gesture towards if you do well, you'll be on the partnership track 10 years from now, but real visibility into what advancement requires and when it typically happens.

Yeah, and that's the first part, transparency. It and that comes from the top, Chelsea, doesn't it? We've got to say that. You talk a lot about transparency from the boardroom.

Yes, exactly. And then the second part is industry transparency.

So being upfront with staff about the changes happening across the whole profession. Generational shifts, evolving roles, and and then yes, AI. Staff can handle that change. What they cannot handle is feeling like change is happening around them and they're in the dark.

Yeah.

Yeah, or they're they're not

part of the change or they don't have a say in the change, they don't have a voice. So they want less mystery, more of a roadmap, more structure. They want their hands on the steering wheel of their own career. They want to be relevant, they want that empowerment to make decisions, and transparency is what makes everything else credible.

Yes, that is exactly right. You can offer flexibility and talk about culture change as much as you want. But if people don't trust what you're telling them about the direction of the firm, none of it is going to land. Transparency is the thing that makes flexibility and culture change feel real instead of feel performative.

So Chelsea, let's get into the question a lot of people are quietly worried about, but it is the elephant in the room. Does AI mean fewer accounting jobs?

So I want to reframe that question because I think it's the wrong one. AI is absorbing a lot of the repetitive low-value work, the stuff that used to take junior staff years to work through before they got to do anything that was actually interesting. So, what AI does is free up staff to engage in that higher value work earlier in their careers.

So if we put a positive frame on that, we're getting rid of years of grunt work before you get to that exposure of real client thinking.

Yeah, you get there faster. New staff can get exposure to advisory work, to judgment-based work, to the parts of the job that actually require a human much sooner than past generations could. And I think that's a real positive for the career experience, not a threat to it.

So if we could communicate that, we were much more transparent about that, that's gonna work for us.

Yeah, it does because the firms that talk openly about how they're using AI and what it means for their roles, that really builds their trust. Firms that are staying quiet leave staff to assume the worst. And that worst is usually wrong, but it fills the silence.

Hmm. Well, we speak a lot to leaders on this show, Chelsea. What does good leadership look like in the middle of all of this?

Yeah, so think the good leaders and the best firms aren't reacting to their complaints one at a time. They are redesigning the ex employee experience from the ground up with transparency and thoughtful AI adoption built in as part of that redesign, not just bolted on after the fact.

So the nuance there is culture change isn't something happening to firms.

Yeah, and the good ones are driving that culture change. It's not something that's happening to them. And that's a hopeful turn. This profession isn't being dragged into a new era reluctantly and kicking and screaming. They're actively building what comes next.

Yeah.

I love that word hope.

We want a career choice with some hope, with some vision, with some prospects, with some autonomy, some flexibility, some power. So if episode one was about the story that the profession tells and how that was broken, this episode is about the profession actually living up to a better brand of accounting.

Mm, yes.

Yeah, I think that's the connection. The culture is moving and now the story needs to catch up to where the culture already is.

Yeah, well we are shining a light on accounting. We are brand ambassadors for accounting doing our part here on this show. You've got to do your part too. We're all in this game together to talk up how exciting a career in accounting is.

So the challenge to all of us today is to tell a better story about accounting, to be transparent about it, to be honest about it. Yes, there are good and bad things about every career, but exciting describes the accounting career more than most careers. So let's all tell a better story. Thanks for tuning in on the Inside Public Accounting Podcast.

And if this ep episode resonated with you, please hit like, subscribe, send it to a colleague, tell us your thoughts and how you're telling a better story inside of the profession. We would love to hear from you.