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Are you struggling to grow your business while maintaining a healthy work-life balance? Discover how to achieve both financial success and personal freedom with expert insights from Mike Abramowitz.

Mike Abramowitz, a business coach and co-founder of Better Than Rich, shares his journey from selling Cutco knives to helping hundreds of business owners streamline their operations and reclaim their time. With a background in direct sales and a passion for personal growth, Mike offers valuable lessons on building systems, maximizing referrals, and achieving what he calls "3x freedom" - time, money, and location.

In this episode, Mike delves into the mindset shifts and practical strategies that can transform a struggling business into a thriving enterprise. He emphasizes the importance of delegation, leveraging technology, and focusing on high-value activities to scale your business without sacrificing your personal life.

Additionally, Mike discusses the power of referrals, the common pitfalls of home service businesses, and the true meaning of being "rich" beyond just financial wealth. His insights on emotional clarity and presence provide a holistic approach to success that goes beyond traditional business metrics.

If you're ready to take your business to the next level while reclaiming your time and freedom, don't miss this enlightening conversation with Mike Abramowitz on the Wealthy Wellthy podcast.

Key Takeaways

5:43 Reframing sales as influence and skill

13:46 The mindset difference in successful salespeople

19:59 Mike's background as youngest of eight

25:43 Money journey from debt to accredited investor

33:20 Working hard on the right things

40:26 Common problems for home service businesses

46:37 Defining "better than rich" as 3x freedom

Memorable Quotes

"All sales means is influence. And people might say, what's the difference between influence and manipulation? It's intent. Manipulation is for my own self interest. Influence is for the other person's self interest."

"My mess is my message. And that really stuck with me big time. I was like, what can I do to turn this valley and this pain of my twenties and turn it into some sort of gift?"

"We need to work hard, but we need to make sure that we're working hard at the right things. That's essentially what Andrew helped me with - what are the things that somebody else can do?"

Resources Mentioned

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie - https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey - https://www.amazon.com/Habits-Highly-Effective-People-Powerful/dp/0743269519

Connect with Krisstina

Website - https://wealthywellthy.life/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/krisstinawise

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@krisstinawise

Krisstina's Book, Falling For Money - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0692560904/

Thank you.

You're too much of a mama's boy. You'll be back in a couple of weeks. There's no way you're going to be on your own. So, like, that type of fuel of, like, my upbringing, of wanting to get away, become independent, find myself, all that. My mom got sick with ovarian cancer when I was 16, so, like, all of that, like, kind of pressure that I started putting on myself early in life, it was like, all the arguments I witnessed, all the divorces that I witnessed was about money. Like, I'm going to do something different.

Hello, and welcome back to the Wealthy Wealthy Podcast, where we explore the intersection of wealth, health, and entrepreneurship. I'm your host, Christina Weiss, and today I'm joined by Mike Abramowicz, a seasoned entrepreneur, business coach, and systems strategist. Mike's journey began in direct sales with Cutco, where He trained over 5,000 reps who collectively generated more than 20 million in sales. Today, he helps home service business owners buy back their time by building the systems that create scalable success and true freedom. In this episode, we dive into the art of influence in sales, the role of mindset and transformation, and the operational blind spots that hold so many entrepreneurs back. Mike also shares his personal story of overcoming debt to become an accredited investor, how shifting his financial perspective changed everything. We talk about what it means to be better than rich. Where wealth isn't just about money, but also about time, location, and peace of mind. Mike offers practical strategies to escape the daily grind, delegate with confidence, and build a business that thrives without your constant input. If you're feeling stuck in the hustle mode or ready to design a business that serves you, this conversation is full of wisdom, strategy, and inspiration. Please enjoy my conversation with Mike Abramowicz. Mike, welcome back to the Wealthy Wealthy Podcast.

Thanks for having me again.

Well, our last conversation for everybody listening is that we had an amazing chat online like this and I changed podcast companies, and voila, your interview somehow got lost in the shuffle. So I'm really excited to see where round two goes because these are never scripted. We just go where it goes. So, again, thank you for being so open to coming back.

Thanks for having me. I'm glad we get a chance to do this again.

Well, I know last time, even though it's been a while since that conversation, what really struck me that I think we ended up talking about that I wanted to start here today in that similar vein is you have this background with direct sales and Cutco knives, and I've met numerous people now that have had a very similar background with either cut, especially with Cutco, but maybe even a couple of their like door to door book sales or that type of thing. But really this direct sales background that ultimately at a young age, like college age and then those that I know have turned that into massive business success of their own. So just jumping right in before we get into some backstory, let's talk about that. Because I found that sales for a lot of small businesses, solopreneur, self employed home services business, that sales is that ick feeling. So. And therefore it keeps them really from probably making a lot more money than they do. So would you share like kind of the background of what those teaching principles were that's specific to sales and not specific to sales.

Oh, oh man, what a great topic. I'll just riff and then interrupt me at any point in time. Is that fair?

Yeah, let's go.

Okay, so a couple in no particular direction at all. This is after me training 5,000 people in sales and those 5,000 people went on to do about $20 million in sales. So putting on that sales trainer hat, swapping out the word sales for influence, all sales means is influence. And people might say what's the difference between influence and manipulation is intent. So it's all about the intent. Manipulation is for my own self interest. Influence is for the other person's self interest. So coming from that place that what is selling is influence and what is influence? Influence is doing that the other person gets a better end of the deal than I do. So therefore, in order to have influence, I must have personal congruency with the product or service that I'm offering. So I must be very aligned that whatever I'm offering is in their best interest. And I also win. So it's very much a win win. So coming from that seat and from that lens, that allows someone who's really makes it feel icky about sales where it's actually just a transfer of emotion. It's just a transfer of my beliefs and helping you see your beliefs. And that comes under the umbrella of now there's three different ways to influence. There's influencing from a place, from a position down at the bottom of a presenter. I'm just going to give you the information and then you decide that's like a very much like a presenter. Then there's like more of like a peer to peer influence where it's like let's have a conversation about it. I'll tell you my opinion, you tell me your opinion and we come to an agree. Then there's the highest level, which I would encourage you, if you're listening to this podcast you want to be is which is expert influence. That's like the parent or the teacher or the leader, where it's like, I know it's in your best interest better than you do. So I'm going to leverage my expertise to influence you and to help you go in my direction. How I'm going to be able to do that. I have a toolbox of skills that I'm going to be able to tap into. Some people might call those tools nlp, Neuro linguistic program. Some people might call those tools tools like rapport building or question asking or how to use my physiology matching and mirroring. Right. Like there's all these tools that we can go and using objection handling or closing cycles or negotiation skills. Like that's this toolbox. So all of that would be my framework of how I would teach someone who's never sold anything in their entire life. They're 17 to 22. And helping them come into the arena of sales to help them sit down with their mom, dad, friends, family, parents, and like, it would all be word of mouth. And helping them go into that toolbox with confidence and certainty, knowing that I'm doing it because I believe in what I'm offering. And if they say yes, it's better for them than it is for me, but I also win too. I'll come up for air on that. Like a little rant there.

Yeah. So I love that what you did there is you just, I think maybe reframed sales to the word from sales to influence and obviously gave us these three influencer levels. Presenter, peer and kind of leader authority. And then what I heard then is that then call it sales or influence. It's learning it as a skill, which means, you know, there are these different tools and then becoming very good at using those tools and to be able to create the influence you want. And the only difference between influence as a positive and maybe manipulation as more of a negative is the intent doing it for somebody else's good or best benefit versus your own. Did I sum that up correctly?

That sounds like a way better version of what I just said. So nice work.

No, that's awesome. All right, so you just shared a really, I think, powerful frame and explanation of sales when you were with Cutco and others that where that organization has just thrown out so many success who've become like yourself, these uber successful entrepreneurs. Obviously it's called a direct sales company. So you learned the power of influence. And probably in these different tools. And you became an expert yourself. And then you became a leader and teacher to teach others at Cutco with direct sales and how to do what you did as far as the sales skill itself. What else, like, what else is behind that learning and how you were developed as a young man that has transformed into the man you are today, the level of success you have today and ultimately what you're doing with your business and your success.

Let's go down memory lane here. So you have to understand, I was studying engineering, Christina. Like, I was going pursuing my engineering degree. My dad owns a plumbing business. You know, like, I was not looking to get into sales. So when I started selling Cutco, I was 18 years old. I was just finished my freshman year in college, and I knew nothing. I just wanted to make some money. And what I learned very early that summer, the summer of 2004, Juno 4, was when I made. There was a base pay and there was a commission pay. And my last job was sell it. Like bagging groceries at a grocery store up in New Jersey, where I'm from. Stop and shop. And bagging groceries. I was paid no matter what. If I bagged those groceries better than anyone else, I was paid the same. So what I did, they had a base pay of like whatever it was back then, $10 for every appointment you do, whether or not I sold. And then there was a commission if people bought. And like the base pay was going to be like $150 or something. But my commission pay was like $180, just like a little bit more. I was like, that was the first time. I was like, wow, I got paid more for doing the same amount of work. So if I just do it better, I can make more. And like, that was a big light bulb for me that what I put in is what I get out. And that summer was the first time I saw that. So I really got good. The only ever saw that was like, in academics, like, if I worked harder at my studies, I would get a better grade. Or in sports, with basketball, if I practice, I would get better and then I could improve and I could see the result in the game. But in jobs, it was just like, I was paid for my time. I go show up and then I get paid for my time. But in sales is like, so if I got better at this, I can make more. And that summer when I made my first a comma paycheck, it was a thousand dollars check. I was 18, 19 years old and making a comma. My paycheck I was like, holy crap, this is insane. And that was like, that was my big epiphany. So when I became a manager of other salespeople and these, some of these Cutco greats, the Hal Elrods and Justin Donalds and the late John Rulin and John Berghoff and you know, some of these Dean Asperger, I mean the list goes on. John Vroman, so many unbelievable people. Angie McDougal, Kathy Kirsten, I mean so many incredible humans. Rachel Richards, I mean so many friends of mine that are like best selling authors and just crushing it in life. We all pretty much had that same epiphany. And our managers, what they tried to do is try to help us see that as fast as humanly possible. So we had this fast start contest and they motivated us with all these cool prizes and do as much as you possibly can as fast as possible. Because it's all about confidence. How can we get confident fast? So how does somebody get confident at anything? They need to see results. So how do we help them see results as fast as humanly possible? That was the goal of us, of all the managers and all the mentors. It wasn't about go out and sell a bunch so you can make a bunch of money. It was go out and sell a bunch so you can get as much confidence and belief and conviction that you can see success here as fast as possible. So that's like the big push that a lot of the best people in Cutco, that's what we understood, or that's at least what we tried to help other people understand. And we would spend like the training seminar. The whole purpose of three days we would sit in these chairs and three days of training was to get off to a fast start, to see results as fast as possible. So how do we get results fast when you don't know anything about sales? Is that framework of what I said a transfer of emotion, A transfer of conviction? The product was so easy to sell with Cutco. All we had to do was like cut rope and cut leather and the scissors cut a penny. You know, it was just like the product sold itself. But we needed to be sold ourselves. We needed to have enthusiasm that this is in your best interest. You pair it with a forever guarantee and you pair it with the cut. And the average price point is like a grocery bill and they could do a 5 payment plan and we just break it down into the simplistic. For a family, it's like 60 bucks a month, that's 15 a week. That's literally two trips to Chipotle for your family and you have these forever. So using some logic, using some emotion, making sure it's easy and convicting and so simple. And that's what we would do. And these students would just go out there and just sit down with a target prospect. They have to be someone who could buy if they wanted to. So it's take this, all this enthusiasm, all this product information, sit down with someone who could buy if they wanted to. So take an easy layup in easy layup. Too many people in sales, they're trying to go for cold leads. Let me do some cold marketing. And those are like three point shots, half court shots. You have to earn the know, like and trust. But at least these, you know, in our case, it's like they already knew like and trusted us. They just had to like the product and believe what we believe. So we start with warm, no like and trust factor. So I'm not going against a wall. I'm at least there's an open door I'm walking into. And from there it's like, this is my presentation. Now coming from that expert influence place, that takes some time. So we would teach them just to do presenter, influence, show and tell with high levels of enthusiasm and conviction, but be in front of someone who could buy if they wanted to. And now they get confidence, now they get results. Now people are giving them credit cards and they're like, wow, I'm good at this. And once they feel like I can be successful here. Now we layer on the training, now we layer on how to handle objections, how to negotiate, how to drop down. And we would just get referrals. We show them how to get referrals. I would call them introductions and I'm in a referral. It's like, hey, who else could you introduce me to? Who do you know that I know, but I haven't talked to in a while that you can either introduce me to or reintroduce me to. I've like met them, maybe they know of me or I know of them, but could you reintroduce me? So our students would get 10, 15, 20, 30 introductions or referrals from these warm lists of networks. So it's like just getting reintroduced or introduced people someone I haven't met yet or people I have met, but I don't, maybe I've lost touch with them and you could reconnect us and just made it so simple for them to establish a pool of prospects that are all stemmed from people that are in the target market. Who could buy the product if they wanted to, or all under the lens of how can this kid develop confidence? I'm in the same like you could say the same position because we're going through like a rebrand doing the exact same concept of fishing in warm networks where there's no like and trust. But instead of selling like a $300 average order, our order size is now like 50 to $100,000. But the concept is still the same. It's a lot easier to get someone to know like and trust from a warm introduction than it is from someone who's never met me before. From like a cold DM or a Rand or something like that. So the concept is so simple. But I think some people want to avoid trying to do business where there is a relationship or something. They make it into something weird when it's not. I mean it actually is opposite. It's more difficult and more weird to try to convince someone that you've never met before to believe in me or believe in some of the things I have to say. Very long rant. I could talk about this for a very long time, Christina. So I'll stop for a moment. Come to you.

I love it, you know, I mean I love rants because like yours, it's so like passionately and emotionally rant in a very positive way, of course. And I find myself, you know, when I'm on your side of the equation, I get on my rants and it comes out of just this love and passion of wanting to teach and share and help and so keep going. Rants allowed. So in all of that amazing training, building confidence, teaching techniques that create confidence, lots of incentives and rewards to really help people drive towards, you know, be incentivized to reach out to the potential they might not other realize and probably like a lot of motivation, a lot of zig ziglar in the background type of thing. And you and the others you've mentioned, many of whom I know as well, succeeded, but I'm assuming that many others had the same exact teaching and training and didn't have the results and didn't wind up even, you know, at the time and aren't doing things like you and your friends are doing today, business wise. So looking back, like, what's the difference between same everything, same education, same leadership, same management, same incentives, same same, same, same. You excelled with that. And others didn't go anywhere and maybe had excuses that the training was terrible or something. What's the difference? Is it a mindset thing?

But it is, it is and it's not upbringing. I'll tell you what, it's not upbringing because some of the some people that succeeded a very high level come from broken homes or come from rough parts of town. Like I've seen some people just incredible success stories. So that wasn't the case. I've seen people with all of them have some sort of work ethic. So work ethic is always that they can work themselves. There's like a willingness to work hard. That is definitely something. But circumstances or situation was not like access. Everyone has access to social capital. It's like a willingness to leverage the relationships. Some individuals that fall short were not willing to leverage relationships. They weren't willing to ask, they weren't willing to get rejected. So it was almost like a using the word mindset. It's a shift in what rejection is. There was an openness to like a paradigm shift of what rejection is and what it is not and what it is not. Rejection is not a no. Rejection is not a shot at my self worth. A rejection isn't an insult. All of rejection is a rejection means that it's just not for me. And a rejection is like I go to McDonald's and they say, there's two apple pies for a dollar, do you want that today? And I say no. And I go around to the window and the person's crying and saying, why did you reject me? Oh my God, I can't believe you rejected me. It's not a rejection of the person, it's a rejection of the offer. So what would we tell that person at the window? Don't take it so personal. A rejection is not personal. All a rejection is, it's a no to that offering. And that is necessary. So the reframe of rejection is so critical. And I actually. One of my books, I have nine books. One of my books I wrote the story of a girl I didn't ask out. Her name was Rachel. And I didn't ask her out on a date because I was nervous she would say no to me. And if I asked her out on a date and she said no, I still don't have a date. I'm still eating lunch by myself. But I asked her out on a date and she says yes, I have a date. So what's the worst thing that happens? The worst thing that happens is I still don't have a date, that I'm right exactly where I am. So rejection leaves me where I am. But the chance asking actually moves me forward or I stay in the same place. So like, helping with the mindset that I could only move forward or stay the same. Nothing bad actually happens is really the mindset shift that a lot of these success stories had. But I think a lot of the not so success stories, those are the ones that were willing to, like, just give up. I think they hit that threshold, they hit that wall, they hit that discouragement, and they let that settle in. And they're like, they get into that downward cycle that, like, outwitting the devil and Napoleon Hill talks about of, like, getting into the drift and getting into discouragement and getting into that downward spiral, and they just choose to isolate, choose to surrender, choose to just move on to what's easy, which is going to work at, like, a chick Fil A. Thank you. My pleasure. And I'm paid for my time, and that's a lot easier. And a lot of these students are really, for anyone, in my opinion, but for those that are just like, yeah, that logically makes sense. I can get there. Until you get kind of punched in the face and you feel that rejection, like, oh, that's. I was like, ooh, oh. Now I go from heart to mind and say, I'm just in the same place. Let me pick up the phone and call the next person. And just like that. How do you do that? You got to gamify. You got to make it fun. That's where the leadership influence is really important to be there, to support, to encourage. We would do the most random stuff, Christine. I mean, a kid, we see it on their face. Hey, Ms. Jones, would you like to book an appointment with me? No. Oh, all right. No sweat. Thank you so much for your time. Hang up, and you can see, like, they're deflated. Like, oh, I got. You know, they said no. So be seeing that. What do we do? As a leader? It's like, hey, do you see her name on that sheet paper? I take this Sharpie marker and scribble that thing out and say, you don't deserve cut. Go. Anyway, it's like a reframe. And then they would smile. It's like, hey, but guess what? The next person, they might really enjoy hanging out with you. Let's try that out. Like, small level chef. But, like, that's just a small example of, hey, it's not real. Let's just keep moving forward. No problem.

Awesome. So now I want to go backwards. And how did you grow up that you found yourself in a place as a teenager that got into this thing to start working? Even if it's bagging groceries or selling Knives either getting paid dollar for hour or based on your potential. What led was there again? Was there a certain mindset? Was it pushed out the door? Was it certain circumstances?

Oh, well, how deep should we go on this one, Christina? I'm like, I'm in, like, therapy on some of this stuff now, so we'll peel back some of the layers. So I'm the youngest of eight and recently found out the youngest of nine, because there's this guy who did ancestry and found out my dad had an oopsie when he was, like, 17. So I have a new big brother. So the being the youngest of. You know, my mom was married three times. My dad was married two times. My sister was married twice. My brother was married three times. So I kind of, like, got a lens, a certain lens of the world for my upbringing. And then from that lens, being overweight, I was about £250 going into high school. I had very low confidence. Didn't ask a girl out until maybe like, sophomore year of high school, maybe junior year or something. And she was two years younger than me. So, like, it was like, safer play. So bullied, picked on, braces, pimples, overweight, lacking confidence. My sister Liz, she's two years older than me, used to beat me up all the time. So, like, that is, like, just kind of gives you a lens of who I was as a kid and as I grew up. So when I got to a point in high school, like, academics was always good, played tennis, varsity basketball, loved Michael Jordan and fell in love with, like, sports and stuff. I decided to. I was like, I'm out of New Jersey. I'm moving away. I'm leaving this version of me behind. And so I only applied to colleges in Florida, got accepted to University of South Florida. My dad told me when I applied, he said, you're too much of a mama's boy. You'll be back in a couple of weeks. There's no way you're going to be on your own. So, like, that type of fuel of, like, my upbringing of wanting to get away, become independent, find myself, all that. My mom got sick with ovarian cancer when I was 16. So, like, all of that, like, kind of pressure that I started putting on myself early in life, it was like, all the arguments I witnessed, all the divorces that I witnessed was about money. It's like, I'm going to do something different. So that pressure is a lot of pressure. I even feel like some of the emotions, like, kind of coming up because that's what I'm Going through some therapy because I don't want to do that to my kids. I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. Like I want to kind of like take my life and just maybe approach things slightly different. But that was hard. That was hard. And then when mom died when I was 20, that just added that much more pressure on. So like all that pressure of like trying to be better, trying to do more, trying to like just not meet anyone, not ask for help, like I could figure things out on my own was really hard for me. But at the in looking back, like I didn't know anything different. I didn't know what I was doing. I just knew that like I'm just going to be a success or whatever in my mind I thought a success was. So when I went into college, I went into college, I'm independent, I'm not borrowing any money from my parents or nothing. But then I was broke. Like it was like a blessing that when I got a letter in the mail from Cutco and Vector and when I started working and selling, I was like, wow, I could become financially independent with this vehicle because I see the potential in it. So I'm going to just pour everything I have into it because I saw like there was an opportunity to take that pressure and apply it in a positive way and use it towards making money. And when I saw that and experienced it, I think it turned me into this personal growth maniac of like self help and reading. And then, you know, you open up the books for my mentors at how to Win Friends and Influence People and Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and Think and Grow Rich and One Minute Manager and some of these old great books that were foundational. Rich dad, Poor Dad. I mean I read that when I was 19. I bought a house with my mom's life insurance money when I was 20. So it's like and 21. So I had three rental properties and three houses by the time I graduated college. So it was like I'm going to do everything I can to get ahead in life and beat the rat race. So like that is who I was to who I became. And then I hit the valley of my 20s when the market collapsed in 2008 and I graduated college. And then I lost all that money. I was negative $130,000 in debt. I lost the properties. I was near bankrupt with a 400 credit score. So it's like imagine how hard that hit when my self worth was tied to my net worth. And then it was like all of it was Just completely stripped away. There was 20s was a hard season for me. But, you know, obviously I could get into the rest of the story, but those are some of those early primitive years that were really foundational.

Thanks for sharing that. I really love the backstory because it's so easy to think, well, he had it easy, or whatever excuses that are projections that we can give to others that make it easier for them and harder for us. With all that, what I heard in this story was determination. I want to do something different. I don't have any confidence, but I want to get it. So you got introduced to self help and just all in. And that really started changing your life and gave you different ways to think, some different perspectives and started changing you. But ultimately there was one word in there that I was really listening for, and it's the five letter word that starts with M and sounds like money. And so now let's shift gears a little bit based on how you grew up and then, you know, being in a situation where you're broke, but then you applied some learning and you felt rich and now you're broke again. So now take us on a little bit of this money journey and what money was then, that the chasing, the connection to your worth as a person and what you've learned in the meantime and how you see money today.

So just continue on that path. When I was at like the lowest of the low, it was 2011, 2012, when my. It was 2012, I believe my college roommate was killed in a fatal car crash. And that was. I was like, broken, broken. It was just like all of it. So my. I did not want to go back into my business. I'm like, I don't feel like inspiring people. I don't feel like. Like life is too short. I don't. I was just contemplating at all. Like, I was just like, he's too young. I mean, we were in our 20s. You know, he would have been a grooming in my wedding. Like, it was just awful. And shortly after that, I went to my first Tony Robbins event. And at that event, I heard my mess is my message. And that really, like stuck with me big time, like real hard. And I was like, what can I do to turn this valley and this pain of my twenties and turn it into some sort of gift? And they didn't know exactly what that was going to be. But I went on a mission leaving that event. And that's where I spoke at the schools for a full 12 months in Pinellas County. So I did about 300 hours of speaking that year to just talk, to influence young people. Because I was like, I needed someone to believe in me when I was younger, and maybe I could do that for other people, and maybe it could be like a recruiting tool for, you know, recruiting students. But then I started speaking at middle schools. I started speaking at high schools and colleges and just like, took the message. And eventually, at the end of maybe 2014, I think it was, is when I turned it into a book. And that was my first book. Grab tomorrow your best year ever. And then on the back end of that, I turned that into a local charity called PB&J for Tampa Bay, where we started feeding the homeless once a month. So then I went like, full tilt into like, contribution mode. I was like, speaking, I was doing book signings. I wrote nine books. I launched this nonprofit. We were on the news. We fed over a hundred thousand people in Tampa Bay. PB&J for Tampa Bay, thousands of volunteers. It was amazing. And then I like, went full tilt in this direction, where I had my direct sales office with Cutgo. I had book signings and speaking gigs. And now I like, I had no time for a relationship. I had no time for anything else. So. And I still wasn't making that much money. I was just like, finding more fulfillment and more purpose in what I was doing. And then I hired a business coach. So I had a business coach in 2016 when I was already starting to get ready to propose to my now wife. And I was like, I got to figure some of this stuff out. Hired him, and he had history in India, scaling a company from 6 million to 30 million with 1400 people underneath him. So he came back to the states and started teaching small business owners how to, like, buy back their time and corporatize their small business. So I started installing like systems into my business and creating more predictability. I was making like maybe 50 to 70 grand a year. But I had all that debt that I was trying to climb out of. So I still wasn't like, flourishing with money. I'd like a lot of debt and stuff. He put all he helped me put in these Systems. By like 2017, 2018, I started really seeing some great increases in results. And then by 2020, when Covid hit, it was like, all the systems that we put in offshore virtual assistance and automations and technologies, and simple McDonald defying the business so I can have easier, like, advancement potential within the organization. So I was ready to go. Everything was virtual. I wanted to build a business. I could work from home. So I Could be a present husband and present dad, like kind of, you heard my story. So I was like, that's what I wanted. Covid hits systems go. We crushed it. We were, we provided a thousand jobs, we were top in the industry, we broke a lot of records and it was awesome. And then my son was born in December, New year's Eve of 2020, December 31st. But he was born at 26 weeks. He was a micro preemie, 1 pound 4 ounces. And I did not know, but we were at the time how long we were going to be in the hospital. But we ended up being in the hospital with him for eight and a half months. And during that time, my business ran without me and still did over 1.3 million in sales and a quarter million in profits and revenue that I was able to have without me there. So that was like the big light bulb of like, wow, this is amazing. But now my wife becomes a full time medical mom, leaves her corporate job, and now I have to figure out how to replace her income while keeping things rolling. So I called up my coach and I said, do you think we could teach other people how to do what you taught me how to do? He said, let's find out. So that is my now business partner, Andrew Biggs. And we started better than rich. And now we've helped hundreds. We're up to about 300 business owners that we've helped buy back their time, put systems in their business. And it's given me an opportunity to now take all the lessons from the last several years and put it into practice and teach people in other industries to help them buy back time. And we have now come full circle to park at home business owners, which are home service business owners, like my dad, who owns a plumbing business. So he's still working six days a week still, you know, grinding and answering every phone call. He's 84 years old. So it's like a full circle moment where now I get to help blue collar workers like my dad buy back time and create systems in their business so that way they could be more present family men if they wanted to or just like make more money or do things that they want to do so they can have a little bit more freedom. Which is kind of wild just to like think about that's the path of where we went. And then from all that, like becoming an accredited investor, I mean, going from negative $130,000 in debt and then 10 years later having I reached over an 800 credit score, it kind of fluctuates. Now from the high sevens to the low eights. But still, either way, being an accredited investor and have a passive investments like all of that is just so cool to just reflect on the story. But obviously in the moments, it's really hard stuff and just kind of keep moving forward. So lots that I could say and lots that I have said, but I think that kind of answers the question.

Yeah, yeah. So to pull out the nuggets out of so much, just rich, rich, honest, vulnerable story, an experience is that maybe chasing money, try to pay the bills, keep the lights on, future father, do the things. And through hiring this specific business coach, it was learning like you didn't learn it directly, but indirectly is, oh, my business can operate without me. You find out after the fact only because if I had not hired this business coach, the business would have failed. I would have failed something would have because I just didn't have the time to try to like between the hospital and making this business work. But because you had built this operational system, plugged in these systems and operations into a business, it actually could work without you, which gave you this thing called time. And that time was spent with your baby in the hospital and then coming back to it, it's like those same systems and operations like, hey, we can turn this into a business. Like, how do I turn my mess into a message? In a way, but in a different level. And that is when it comes to time and business, I love this kind of segue in the conversation is what I find is that there's this belief that if I just pedal faster that, you know, the duck pedaling under the water, that's how I make more money. That's how I leverage this business. That's how I get my time back. I just have to get it to a certain income or revenue level and then I'll get some time. I'll get that freedom thing. And do you think that's a myth? And if so, what's the replacement?

You know the answer to that one. You already know the answer to this. Yeah, of course it's a myth. I mean, we need to work hard, but we do need to make sure that we're working hard at the right things. And that's essentially what Andrew kind of helped me with. It's like, what are the things that somebody else can do? Like, if it's easy to do, then it's easy to delegate. And that's something that I kept reminding myself of. So it's like that Dan Martell did it great. And buy back your time it's like all the administrative. So it's like that's the stuff I had to get off of my plate, but also my staff's plate. So all of these college kids all had virtual assistants that were offshore, like doing all the administrative grunt work so I can get pennies on the dollar to do administrative. So that way my staff can do like higher level work. So I wanted my staff to be doing $50 an hour work and I wanted a virtual assistant team to be doing anything that was under $20 an hour. So it's like, how can I let that. Let's set that up and then how could I have technology for like $50 a month or $100 a month using like zapier or using like different technologies or CRMs step in to do things automatically, calendly, for example, like booking appointments. Like how do we not have to have a human book appointments? How can we have scheduling self scheduling? Like all these different reimagining. That was taboo in the industry, Christine. And now it's like, oh duh, everyone uses calendar your scheduling tools, but we're going back pre Covid. It's like, no, that was like taboo, like using zoom for meetings. Like we were doing that in like 2017, 2018, so we could have more people attend our meetings if they had conflicts or wasn't, you know, have transportation, but we could still influence them. So I just think thinking differently about the same thing allowed me to question everything. It's like, what's the reason why we're doing this? And our RPM is a great framework that Tony Robbins talks about, which is his rapid planning method is results, purpose and then massive action. Too many times it's like, let's just do the thing. Like you said, just keep working harder at the thing. But instead of starting with a massive action, let's start with the results. What's the outcome first, what is the outcome? We want outcome. We want this many people to show up to this event or we want this many people to call us or we want like what's the tangible outcome? Let's start there. And then it's like same thing with a meeting. We show up to a meeting, what's the outcome of this meeting? I don't want to spend an hour, I want to get this outcome. What is that outcome? It's like, great, then the R. That's the R. But then the P. What is the P? What is the purpose? Why do I want that outcome? Let's question, is that really the. Is that really the outcome we want let's question it first. Why is that important? Then what are the massive action steps that we could take towards that outcome? And when we just go through that framework and my staff goes to that framework and then we take them through like a start, stop and keep, what do you need to start doing that moves us towards that outcome? What do you need to stop doing? That's refer, that's like hurting us from moving forward towards the outcome. What do you need to keep doing? What do you need to continue doing that's working now? They could become a little bit more self reliant and self sufficient and then putting some accountability and communication into place with big three every day. These are my big three focuses towards that outcome. And then the end of day report, this is what I got done towards those. And just having systems of communication and self reliancy and collaboration that could take place and then had them having their vas that could take care of their admin for them. So they're only focused on the higher level tasks. And this is essentially like you might say, well if they're doing all that, then what is Mike doing? They're doing all this work, then what am I doing? I'm having the high leverage conversations. I'm doing the 200, 500, a thousand dollars an hour work. The only things that I can focus on, which is like sales and training and leadership and managing and overseeing and strategy and thinking about different ways that I can help my staff work a little bit more efficient. Looking at the budget, where could I take dollars that are being wasteful over here and spend them over here and use those dollars, the same dollars, but create a 3x return on what they're, how they're working. How could it use those dollars in more effective ways? Like that's the stuff that I started thinking about and that's what grew me from like 70 grand to 400 grand in the same industry just by thinking about the same thing differently. Because I had that space. I didn't just buy back time so I could go make a sandwich. I, I bought back time so I could have space to think creatively about. How can I build this machine even better and smoother and faster so it could run without me. And I also had that aspiration of like, do I want to do something in tangent in tandem with this? Like I do want to spend time with my family, but do I want to start other businesses or do I want to travel or do I want to, you know, just have freedom? And that's essentially what I started thinking about. The money can allow me to buy time. It also positions me to have that freedom of choice. Like, I could choose to work hard if I want to, or I could choose not to. But having the choice versus feeling like I have to do it, otherwise I'm going to be broke. I don't know. It's just a different shift, and it's hard to make that shift. Christina, when you look at the bank account and I'm like, crap, I can't put enough gas in my. I have to choose. Do I pay my assistant or do I fill up my gas tank? And I've had that conversation with myself too many times. Like, that sucks. That's a really terrible place to be. And it's hard to think beyond that moment. And that's why I believe having that coach and having support, having mentorship, it's going to be really critical for someone if you're in that season. And when I had no money, I went to the library, public library. Those books were free. And being able to just get that influence from someone that was outside of my own mind.

Yeah. So, again, thank you so much there in the business you're in now, which is helping home services companies like plumbers, electricians, window washers, I don't know, I'm making it up. But when they come to you, they are successful, really, based on the backs of their labor, great work ethics, like your dad, pick up the phone, do the hard work. It's like a badge of honor, even in many cases. And it's, you know, hard work does get you to a certain place. There's no doubt about it. In fact, hard work's required to get to a certain place. But then it taps out. Because hard work can only take you so far. Is there with, you know, now the 300 businesses you've worked with so far, and you're just at the beginning of this. But with the optics you have with the businesses you've worked with to this date, they're coming to you because they're lacking the systems, the operations, the frameworks, the leadership skills, the management skills, the tech, like you said, Zapier accounts, whatever the case is, had those things built in that buy time back. Has there been any type of consistency where they come in? Just. It could be, you know, Amco as far as the company, because they're all kind of coming in the same with the same type of problems, more or less fundamentally that. What are you seeing regularly? Because I think that's going to be a really good illustration to what it looks like with Most self employed type businesses, operators for example, as opposed to what they look like after you insert the, you know, insert and help them install these systems and operations to buy their time back.

Yeah, it's a great question. I'm going to use the shortcut and then obviously I'll share my own like perspective. The shortcut is buy back your time by Dan Martel. His replacement ladder is one really big light bulb for all businesses that we've worked with. They must, they have an administrative problem. Every one of them have an admin problem where the owner is too caught up in administrative. Their inbox, their social media data entry, their CRM, something that has to do with administrative and then that admin creates distraction because they're like this sucks but it has to get done. And by them losing energy and focus on the admin is a distraction because they don't want to pay someone else how to do it or they don't know how to find someone else how to do it, they don't want to train someone else how to do it or they're on the illusion that no one else can do it as good as me. All of that. They got to take your administrative first. Then it's like marketing and fulfillment. They a lot of times these business owners again that same concept, no one else could do it as good as me. So fulfillment for example, like using like a landscape lighting company as some of some of our current clients that we're working with and they're installing lights like they're doing install of lights or designing lights for these homes. It's like you're right, some people cannot do the design as good as you. But which aspect could they do? Which aspect can be done as good as you? Which aspects can you record yourself or source yourself or train someone else to do as good as you so you could buy back some of that time. I don't know the answers to that but I'm sure from that question we could figure that out so we can then offload the fulfillment. And as far as marketing, how are we generating more leads? The problem across the board, Christina is they all are absolutely terrible at referrals. All of them are terrible at referrals. There hasn't been one person, one business that says most of my business comes from referrals. Now that's coming from me in direct sales. 80% of our recruits, if not more came from referrals. And every customer that I sold Cutco to, I have a thousand people bought Cutco for me. All of them word of mouth based on everything I told you about, starting with Warren leads. So they're terrible at referrals. So installing a referral system from two parties, their past clients, and also referral partners that are in similar industries, helping them have predictable flow of leads from relationships that they've already have established, they're all terrible at that. So that's like in that marketing piece that's like stop spending. And I'm not saying stop, but be caution, caution yourself on spending the thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars in cold marketing and redirect those dollars into the relationships and give incentives to your current audience that you're connected to to give you referrals. Because those warm leads are a lot easier to convert than those cold leads. So invest in those relationships. So instead of spending a thousand dollars in SEO, just take the same thousand dollars, sit down with your top client, take them out for a fancy dinner and say, hey, who else do you know that could benefit from our service? If you give us five introductions right now, we'll give you $1,000 off your next service. Whatever it might be. Like just a small example, those five introductions are going to be way better than any of the 40 cold leads that might come from SEO because they're going to convert. Because there's 40 leads, you might get one maybe from those five you might convert three or four or all five of them because it's coming from an introduction. So they are all terrible referrals. The other thing that they're a lot of times really terrible at is the maximization from pre existing clients. They're really bad at maximizing like ascension offers or getting reviews or testimonials or doing more business after the point of sale like the follow up. And that kind of ties into the referrals, but it also ties into maximizing the LTV after the point of sale. So my dad installs a hot water heater. It stops at that job. He has absolutely no follow up. He has nobody following up. How is the hot water heater, by the way? When we were over at the house, we did notice that you were considering, you know, upgrading your kitchen and doing a full remodel. When you're ready for that. We would love to run your business and give you 20% off. Is it okay if we follow up with you in maybe six months? Or could we recommend you to someone to give you an estimate on that? And now it's like it's just a follow up. It's predictable in some way, shape or form. But most of these companies have absolutely no client maximization. The other one that they're terrible at, I'll give you this last one, is sales process. They might be good at selling, but they absolutely have no predictable process. So one person might be doing it different than the other person. They might have three people selling, and all three of them have different approaches. What I love about direct sales and Cutco is we had a training manual, and everyone started with that exact same outline, and then we made it ourselves. So everyone at least knew what vanilla was. There is vanilla, and then if you wanted to make it into a Sunday, you could make it into a Sunday. But at least we had a vanilla blueprint, a playbook, and sop. This is our process. This is the predictable flow of the client journey with the first point of contact into the next one, like a flowchart. And it's a process in a sequence. It's very predictable, and it's very smooth and it's very seamless. Most of them are terrible at that, too. There's nothing that's, like, really dialed in there. So those are just a couple off the top of my head that we can see across the board in almost any business. And if there was another one was talent and hiring and onboarding. Most of them are absolutely terrible. They're like, oh, I need help. Let me post an ad and stop everything else I'm doing to go hire these people. It's just like, there's no predictability there at all. They're terrible at that, too.

Well, you know, just the way you share all that, it just automatically here, wow. There's just such a room for improvement. Like, pretty simple in the grand scheme of things. Like, there's just all this margin of improvement that this potential waiting to happen. And that's what you're helping these businesses do, is realize that potential. That's just unrealized. So one final question to wrap us up here in. You know, part of your message is rich. Being rich, and it's being rich better.

Better than rich better.

Well, better than rich, Yeah, I guess that's where I'm going. But rich, you know, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding.

Yeah, but when we say the word rich, we think money. But when you're saying better than rich, I think you're meaning time. Because ultimately, that's what we're after, is time. Rich is the freedom. It's not the money that's the freedom. It's the money that can buy the time and give our time back. I think that's what you're Saying is that what here's.

I just had this conversation with my wife. If we want to figure out what it means to be rich, what I like the definition to be is 3x freedom. Time, money, location, freedom. So being rich as 3x freedom. So if I have time freedom, money freedom, location freedom, I'm rich. But what's better than rich is actually being able to be present with where you're at in the moments when you have that type of freedom. So if I have the 3x freedom, but I'm distracted or I'm on social media or I'm constantly feeling overwhelmed, I'm constantly feeling distracted or feeling anxious or worried or distraught or stressed, it doesn't matter if I have the 3x freedom because just I have time, I have money, I could be wherever I want to be. But when I'm by myself, I'm just constantly overwhelmed or worried or anxious. That's really not. That's not great. Like, I'm rich, but I'm really. Am I really? So that's why we like to say better than rich is having those three. We, we want you to get those three, but we also want you to have some of that, like, emotional clarity and regulation and the ability to like, be present. And that's the hard stuff. That's not easy stuff. So that's why it's like, let's take care of this 3x piece first. And once you have that, we can obviously a little bit move a little bit closer. We don't want you just to become a monk and sit on a hill like a hippie and be like, oh, everything's smooth. And then you can't pay for the next doctor's appointment. Right? Like, we don't want that. That's not rich either. So we like to start with the 3x freedom piece. And then as we grow, relationships with people will help them see, like, hey there, there's other higher frequency emotions that we could explore, like euphoria and joy. You know, let's move away from some of that overwhelming worry. Feel.

Love that. All right, to wrap us up and bring us into home base. Any final thoughts?

I just want to say I love what you're doing. I mean, you know, any. Anybody who's listening to this show, go make your way over. You can listen to us flipping the script on the better than Rich show and hear Christina or any of the 300 plus episodes you've done. I think what you're doing is fantastic and your audience is lucky to have you. So listener, just keep listening to this show keep, keep, you know, hanging around Christina and you'll just continue to flourish. Wealthy, wealthy. There's a great brand and there's a lot of really great assets and resources for you to just continue to grow.

Well, thank you. Well, as far as assets and resources, how to we'll put it all in the show notes, where to follow, what.

To do for us. Betterthenrich.com I'm doing right now, if someone is in the home service business is brand spanking new. I'm doing a 30 minute no BS call. No BS, no pitch. No, it's just 30 minutes for those four systems that I mentioned. We'll install those into your business for you for free. 30 minutes. So if you're in the home service space or know someone who is, send them over to betterthanrich.com, there's a little button that'll be at the top. It says no BS call. 30 minutes, no pitch. We'd love to add value to your business if we can.

Right on. Mike. Thank you so much for your time. I'm so glad that we got to got a re up on this and you make the world a better place. Thanks for what you do.

Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. If you wish to learn more from me about financial abundance, business and wealth creation, I invite you to check out my new YouTube channel. Subscribe and receive weekly money education videos. You'll find me at YouTube.com hristinawise YouTube.com R I S S t I n a w I s e. Otherwise, join me again next week for an episode episode of the Wealthy Wealthy podcast where I interview experts about the intersection of wealth, health and business. Until then, live your wealthy wealthy life.