Program director episodes are my favorite, because you get the answers straight from the person making the decisions.

Dr. Curt Stilp runs the PA program at George Fox University in Oregon, and it was still a newer program when we recorded this. Newer programs get overlooked, which is a mistake, because they're often building something intentional instead of running on inertia.

George Fox uses problem-based learning, so students are working through cases early instead of sitting in lecture for a year first. There's also a strong service focus, especially toward rural and underserved communities, and Curt is clear that they're looking for applicants who genuinely care about that, not applicants who wrote one sentence about it in their essay.

If you're building your school list, listen for what he says about fit. It's the part people skip.

What we cover:

• How problem-based learning changes the student experience
• What George Fox looks for in an applicant
• The program's focus on rural and underserved care
• What makes an application stand out to a director
• Why newer programs deserve a look
• Curt's advice for applicants who don't get in the first time

Resources:

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Free Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Pre-PA Academy: https://prepaclub.thepaplatform.com/landing/academy

Mentioned in this episode:

CapYear Training

Get $200 Off CapYear Academy Looking to boost your clinical experience this summer? CapYear Academy offers a flexible, 100% online medical assistant training program with optional externships and CCMA certification included. 🎓 Use code PA200 for $200 off your tuition! 👉 Enroll now at capyear.co

Ever wish you could pick a program director's brain?

Well, today I'm talking to Kurt Stilp, the program director for the George Fox University PA program in Oregon.

And that's what we're going to do.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

I want to thank mypa Resource and PA School Prep for sponsoring the Prepa Club podcast.

So my PA Resource is a personal statement editing service that edits only PA school essays, only edited by PAs, and most of us have admissions experience, so I am one of the editors.

Definitely check them out if you need help with your content grammar flow, making sure that you are on track for turning in your application and you can use the Code Future PA for a discount on any of their service options.

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the podcast.

Savannah Perry here, your host and Durham PA and creator of the PA platform.

I am in the middle of moving and I'm actually not sure where my fancy mic is, so sorry if this sounds a little bit off.

I promise I'll find it by the CASPA Boot Camp next week.

Week.

I'm really excited for today's episode.

This was a great, great conversation and I just really enjoy getting to talk to program directors and faculty who can really give you the inside scoop and tell you about their programs and why they are so great and why they love them so much.

As you'll hear, the George Fox University program is new and small, but sounds so great and like a place where if you are very passionate about your area and volunteering, this is definitely a school you need to check out.

So I'm going to let us jump into our interview and you'll hear from Kurt Stilp, the director of the program and the links to their program and all the information you need is in the description.

They do have an information session coming up, so make sure you don't miss that and be on the lookout for any new info sessions in the future.

I'm Kurt Stilp.

I am the Program Director of the George Fox University PA program.

I have been a PA for it'll be 20 years in July.

I'd been a preceptor for PA students and then started to do some guest lecturing with the Rosalind Franklin PA program, Still had great connections with the faculty there from when I was a student, and so just began helping out here or there and then really, you know, I guess developed a love for teaching.

I kind of always knew that I liked teaching.

I was a nurse before I was a pa, and when I was a nurse, I would always onboard the new nurses and do like training with our new graduate nurses.

So I liked just teaching kind of at the bedside in the hospital.

And so it was natural for me to become a preceptor after graduating from PA school and then kind of evolving from there, helping out with some guest lecturing, some workshops, and then ultimately decided to make the jump into academics full time.

I still continue to one day a week clinical practice, which many PA faculty do, simply because, as you know, we spend a lot of time and energy and effort into our training.

And we do it because we want to care for patients and their families.

And so having one day a week to still practice clinically enables many PA faculty, including myself, to be able to still use those skills, to be able to still care for patients and families at the same time that you're teaching the next generation.

I did that at Rosalind Franklin University as a PA faculty for about three years.

Then my family and I moved out to Portland, Oregon, and I joined the faculty right away of the Oregon Health Science University OHSUPA program, where I served there in varying roles and capacities over about 12 years, including didactic faculty, then clinical faculty.

Then I became clinical coordinator or director of clinical education, overseeing the clinical year.

Then in the last handful of years before coming to George Fox, I actually moved into a part time position with the PA program and I directed our statewide AHEC or the area Health Education Centers, and that really oversaw clinical training for all of the universities in Oregon that had health professions programs and rural and underserved areas in Oregon.

So I really began to develop a passion for rural and underserved care.

At that time, I was doing a lot of traveling across the state and looking for clinical rotation sites and helping coordinate student learning activities when they were in the rural sites so that they could see what it's like to be a rural provider or an underserved provider.

And I also worked with our, the Oregon Health Authority, our state health authority, in coordinating a lot of the scholarships and incentive programs that would get health profession students into rural and underserved areas as part of a scholarship or service commitment.

And so then when I transitioned to George Fox University to help start their PA program or a brand new program.

I really brought that heart for service and passion for underserved care with me here.

And that is a big part of our PA program here at George Fox.

So, yeah, that is a little background on me.

Oh, gosh, I have so many questions.

So, first of all, nurse to pa. Why not nurse practitioner?

Yeah, that is a great.

I got asked that at my PA program.

I'm sure you did.

Right?

Exactly.

Yeah.

So it's actually kind of a funny story.

I knew I wanted to be a PA when I was in 9th grade, grade of high school.

I broke my arm in a sledding accident.

I grew up in Minnesota, so I was sledding on snow and, you know, goofing around with, with some buddies and actually broke my arm, a PA put on my cast.

And so I started to ask about, like, what is it that you do and whatnot.

And he was telling me, you know, he was a pa. And then the orthopedic surgeon came in and saw me, and I kind of saw how they work together and I thought, man, this looks really, really interesting.

So I started to investigate what it would take to be a PA at that time.

This was before the Internet, so you would just send away for information to universities that you, that you, you know, heard about that had a PA program at that time, living in Minnesota.

The closest PA program that I knew of was at the University of North Dakota.

University of North Dakota PA program at that time was exclusively for nurses that wanted to become PAs.

So I didn't really do much other research.

And I thought, well, you have to be a nurse before you be a pa. That's kind of how it's set up.

So I went to nursing school.

And then about halfway through nursing school, I started to do more research as I, as I neared graduation and realized that you didn't have to be a nurse to be a pa. And I thought, well, you know, I'm not going to change anything now.

I'm in a great nursing program.

I'm actually really enjoying what I'm learning.

And I thought, you know, I'll graduate, work as a nurse, get great healthcare experience, and then.

And then transition on to my ultimate goal to become a pa.

So my goal was to become a PA from the beginning.

And that really didn't waver.

I just, I just happened to, you know, have.

Have nursing as my introduction to health care, which was a great introduction.

I used my nursing skills, my patient assessment skills, my communication skills as a nurse all the time in PA school on clinical rotations.

So I was really, really, really grateful for that foundation of healthcare experience and learning.

That's so interesting.

So I think it's interesting because you've been in the profession for so long and so how have you kind of seen the profession evolve, like the actual role in the education side over the past 20 years and kind of like, what do you expect it to do moving forward?

Yeah, you know, I've, I've seen just a general drift away from primary care.

The foundation of our profession is in primary care and being the extension of the physician into rural and underserved areas where it was difficult to recruit physicians.

That meant that PAs worked in family medicine, primary care, because that was the role in many rural and underserved areas.

I've seen that shift slightly as physicians have gotten more specialized.

As physicians have started to develop subspecialties and sub, sub, sub specialties, the PAs have naturally drifted with them because we are obviously employed by sometimes, not always, but we certainly work in collaboration with physicians, so it makes sense that we would naturally drift with that trend as well.

That has meant that more and more PAs are coming out of PA school and wondering how do I get specialized skills?

So I've seen educational, whether it be one year PA residencies or fellowships that provide those specialized skills for PA graduates who need some extra training before they step into a specialty.

But I've also seen PA programs and PA schools have to potentially adapt to teaching some of that specialized aspects of medicine in order to prepare their graduates for stepping out into the world and working.

I think one thing that hasn't changed is that PA education is still at the core, a generalist education.

It is still an education that gives the PA graduate a wide breadth of experience and prepares them to step into obviously any specialty, but certainly prepares them to step into primary care, family medicine, internal medicine and the like.

So, you know, while some things have changed, I think PA education on a whole hasn't changed because it really has maintained that focus on a, a general, broad, generalist education for medicine that allows the graduate, of course, to then decide where they want to work, whether it be in a specialty or whether it be in primary care or something in between.

Interesting.

Okay.

And I think that's probably, I would probably agree.

I mean, I work in Durham, I've only ever worked in Durham and a lot of my classmates went into specialties or ended up in them eventually.

So, yeah, I've definitely kind of seen that trend.

Justin and my colleagues.

So you've kind of told us how you got involved in academics Tell us about George Fox University's PA program.

Yeah, so we are a brand new program.

We just launched our first class in January of this year.

We're a 24 month program.

So two years and that just you know, like, you know, kind of all PA programs, the clinical and didactic year are divided up evenly 12 months and 12 months.

Our first year of didactic is a little bit unique in that we are a problem based learning curriculum, which means that our students work through the didactic year in problem based learning, small groups that is kind of the cornerstone of how they're learning medicine.

So every week they go through a different patient case with a group and a faculty facilitator that helps guide their learning.

But essentially the students are asking questions as they work through a case and then if they don't know the answers to those questions as they discuss the case amongst themselves, then they need to go off and do homework on what it is that they didn't know.

So they develop this long list of what we call learning issues that students will go out and do research on.

And then the next day when they come back for that small group, they report on what they've learned and then of course share those resources with their classmates.

And so that really does form the foundation for developing clinical thinking.

What I like about this approach is that it prepares the PA student really from day one, how to think through a patient, how to think through a patient case, and how to start to develop clinical thinking skills so that the first day of their clinical rotations, it's not going to be the first time that They've encountered a 56 year old female with shortness of breath and they know the questions to ask and how to work through it.

And then if they don't know what's going on, they would know how to look up the information and where to find information that will help them with the decision making process.

Then the rest of the curriculum supports that central pbl.

So we have some traditional classes like of course anatomy, pathophysiology, pharmacology and physical exam that all are in coordination with whatever unit that we are going through in their PBL small groups that then in a more traditional kind of lecture learner format or lab format will support whatever it is that they're learning that week.

So we go through all the major organ systems, you know, we work through them, but mainly from a case based perspective with those other courses supplementing what the students are learning week in and week out.

And then in the second year, of course, you know, the typical clinical rotations that you would imagine in a PA program, along with two electives, we have a lot of clinical placements that are out in the rural areas of the state of Oregon.

So my previous work, really, I developed a lot of good relationships with clinics and hospitals and providers across the state.

And so when we were launching this program and growing the program, we were able to utilize a lot of those relationships and get student clinical rotations in the areas across the state.

We really have an emphasis on service.

And so that's one of the things that we expect of our graduates, is that they will be serving in some capacity, whether it's serving as part of their Monday through Friday job in a rural or underserved area, or whether they're incorporating service into a regular weekly rhythm or a yearly rhythm in terms of maybe an international medical missions trip or something that is something that we talk to our students about all the time, something that we really expect of our graduates.

And we feel like the clinical rotations, having those in rural and underserved areas across the state will help expose the student to what it is like to provide care in those communities, but also, you know, get them excited about incorporating that into part of their.

Part of their rhythm after.

After graduation.

One of the other things that.

That we.

That we really are excited about is that we offer a doctorate of Medical science degree that is in conjunction with our master's PA program.

So we developed a DMSC program that has a concentration on humanitarianism and service.

And so our students, during the second year of their PA program, can do a dual enrollment in our DMSC program.

And then they do a service trip as part of the doctoral program that will expose them to disaster medicine, tropical medicine, emergency medicine, delivering that in either a domestic or an international location.

And then after they graduate from PA school, they just do one additional semester where they take online courses, and then they graduate after one additional semester with their doctorate of medical science.

So it's a doctor of Medical Science that really is kind of integrated somewhat into our PA program and we think provides a unique and faster and cheaper way for our graduates to get a doctorate if that's something that they desire, that, you know, the PA student doesn't have to do the doctorate.

It's there, you know, it's completely optional and, you know, there's no pressure to do it.

But it is an option.

If our graduates are seeking that in terms of a doctorate so that they can step into leadership positions so that they can lead different service aspects or, you know, if they want the advanced degree to, to progress into, you know, something beyond, you know, their master's degree.

That is so cool.

I totally would have done that.

I mean, 100.

100%.

That's really cool.

Is that.

And just for anyone listening who's like a PA student or a pa, is that something that people can do through your university outside of the PA program or not?

You know, it's not really set up for someone who's graduated elsewhere to come and do that.

You know, we do have a potential option for somebody to do that.

Although the program really is set up for the student who's already enrolled in our master's PA program to do the additional doctorate if they choose.

The curriculum is more set up that way.

Cool.

Yeah, that's something I've started to get some more questions about for sure.

Yeah.

How many students are in your program?

So right now we have 20 students and then we're going to increase the class size every year for the next handful of years until we max out at 36.

That'll be our max that we'll get to in a handful of years.

I think that's a great size from what I've heard from students in smaller programs, which.

Mine was 44, which wasn't huge, but I've heard you get a little bit more of that one on one faculty attention and get to really know your faculty, I mean, your classmates as well.

But that tight knit aspect can be very beneficial, I think.

Yep, absolutely.

Yeah.

We have a seven to one student to faculty ratio, so we do get to know our students very well.

Of course, this first inaugural class of 20, we're getting to know really well, you know, because we're learning somewhat about, you know, implementing this PA curriculum that we've spent years developing.

And they are, of course, learning how to be PA students, learning how to think like PAs and think like clinicians.

And so, you know, we do a lot of interacting, a lot of communicating with them, and so we have gotten to know them very well.

Nice.

Okay, so are you all provisional then, right now?

Yeah.

You have your provisional status, correct?

Can you talk a little bit?

So I have, you know, people who will email or message or ask about provisional status and they in some cases feel a little apprehensive about that.

But in talking to faculty who have been in these newer programs, it's extensive what you guys have to do to get to that point.

Can you kind of explain and maybe put people at ease about how a provisional program is a fully accredited program?

It is a real program and they are good to go.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So before a PA program even gets to the point of where they're going to be visited by accreditation site visitors for provisional accreditation, they have to go through many, many steps to demonstrate that the university has the infrastructure, has the support, and has the personnel to develop and support a PA program.

So many years before even that happens, applications are submitted, universities are scrutinized by our accreditation body for all of those things.

Then even prior to that, personnel need to start to be hired.

So the program director needs to be hired.

I think it's at least a year, sometimes two years before even that provisional accreditation site visit.

Faculty need to start to be hired, clinical rotations need to start to be developed and secured.

So prior to the site visit, there really is an extensive curriculum development, institutional investment, hiring of faculty and staff so that when you get to the actual site visit time, the PA program has submitted a lengthy application which addresses every single standard in accreditation and how the PA program is going to meet every single standard, whether it be through curriculum or whether it be through the institution or whether it be through clinical rotations or policy or, you know, whatever.

And then once that site visit happens, which ours happened last June, we have to basically show that we have the plans in place to address every single standard which result in a fully functioning two year PA program.

So we underwent that.

Two site visitors from the accreditation body came and visited us and asked us lots of questions about our curriculum, lots of questions about our clinical rotations, lots of questions about our institution.

They met with us, met with institutional leaders, dean, provost, our president, and then they write a response which basically says, you know, we feel like this university has, has what it takes.

They have the infrastructure in place, they have the plans in place to launch a PA program.

And so that's that then results in what's called provisional accreditation.

It's provisional because they grant the accreditation prior to us actually having a PA class.

So they granted us provisional accreditation in September within the launch of our PA program fully with students on the ground in January.

So that then that provisional accreditation lasts for about two years in the sense that they want to come back accreditation right before graduation of our first class, so next summer, and ask us questions like, did you implement the program that you said you were going to implement?

And if not, what changes did you make?

You know, they expect changes to occur because, you know, sometimes things look different on paper than they actually do when you're implementing them.

So they want to know what changes you made and they want to See, you know, that you have some data to support that and have essentially thought through any changes you've made.

But really what they're doing is they are ensuring that the program that you said you were going to develop is the program that actually got developed with, with the students that are about to graduate.

Then they actually come back about a year after that, after that, first class graduates and do another visit.

And really the focus of that visit is on what kind of data, what kind of self study data has the program collected to support any changes that need to take place, to support anything that's going well or to, you know, potentially plan for changes in the future.

So that, you know, again, the PA program undergoes kind of another magnifying glass look at, you know, what they're doing and any changes that have been made need to be made or will be made.

And then at that time, after that third site visit, then they grant the kind of continuing accreditation stamp, which just means that, you know, you don't need to get another site visit for a number of years.

You have to continue to do self study data and collect that and submit that.

But in terms of when you get your initial provisional accreditation, you are considered a fully accredited PA program.

It's just considered provisional because as I said at that time, you haven't had students yet.

So it's kind of forecasting out, saying, you know, this is provisional in the sense that what you've said you were going to do for your PA program has met all of our standards, so you are accredited.

But now we want to see how it actually works in real time when you have students going through the program.

And we'll come back and visit you right before graduation and right after graduation to see how things are going, how it went, what changes you made or what changes need to be made.

Yeah, I mean, I think you explained that way better than I ever have or how it comes across reading it on all this stuff about the accreditation.

So I think that is extremely helpful for students to understand.

And I've heard so many great experiences from students in provisional programs that I mean, I personally don't have any reservations if the school has gotten that status because it's hard to get.

Okay, so looking in at like YALLS website, which that's typically like the best place to get information probably for most people.

Yeah.

So I really appreciate that y' all seem to really just like lay out kind of what you expect from applicants.

And not all programs do that.

So anyone listening, like, I definitely encourage you to go look at the George Fox University website, because you'll see there's like a point system.

How does that work?

Can you talk a little bit, I guess about what you're looking for in applicants?

Yeah, I would say all PA programs undergo kind of a pre interview screening type of process.

Whether they assign points or whether they, you know, are you using modifiers or whatever?

You know, PA programs need to have a way for screening applicants and then whether they meet admissions requirements or not.

But if they do, then how do we, you know, how do we kind of order the applicants and have, you know, some that we want to invite further for an interview and others that might qualify but we're not going to invite for an interview.

So that's what that kind of pre interview screening matrix is, is just our way of evaluating an applicant to see whether or not they are a mission match, to see whether or not they have met our requirements for GPAs and for degrees and for prerequisite courses and all of that.

But also in that we're looking at things like service, right?

Do they have a history of volunteerism?

Have they demonstrated compassion to rural and underserved communities, whether it be through volunteerism or whether it be through a healthcare experience job that they might have had?

Certainly we look at do they have knowledge, right?

Do they have the gpa?

Do they have the GRE scores?

Do they have the prerequisite grades in order to show that they are going to academically be able to handle the rigors of a PA program?

And then we also look for leadership.

Do they have any type of leadership activities, whether it be again on a volunteer basis or whether it be part of their healthcare patient care hours job?

Have they had a leadership position?

Maybe they've had a leadership position within their community doing some sort of community service or something like that.

So those are really the four areas that we look for.

Compassion, knowledge, leadership and service.

And that's the lens by which we look at an applicant to see whether or not they would be a good fit for the George Fox PA program, whether they have the academic aptitude to be able to do it, whether they have the service and volunteerism as part of their preparation for PA school, whether they've had any type of leadership, and then of course, whether or not they have done any of these things in an environment where they are serving underserved communities or rural communities.

To show that compassion piece.

We also give special consideration to veterans.

So anybody who is a veteran of the, of the US Military does get an automatic interview as well as anybody who is a George Fox University graduate, you know, with their undergraduate degree does get an automatic interview as well.

So, yeah, assuming they meet the requirements.

Yeah, yep.

And same.

Same with the veterans as well.

Assuming that they.

That they meet our minimum requirements, then they would be granted in an automatic interview.

I've seen.

I've seen the.

I've seen the tie to the undergraduate side of a university.

I've seen that in PA programs before.

So PA programs that are in universities that have an undergraduate side to them as well will oftentimes show, you know, priority access for interviews for graduates of that university because, you know, they.

They obviously show a propensity, you know, to.

To understand the university, to be part of that university as an undergraduate.

Thus they, you know, they.

They would likely already have established some of the things that the university is looking for in terms of a student that would make then a much easier transition to a graduate student at that same university.

Nice.

Yeah.

And I think that makes sense.

But, yeah, y', all, it's definitely laid out very well.

So one thing I noticed that I think people would be excited to hear about is that you don't specifically require organic chemistry, which is a huge pain point for all pre pas.

Yes.

Yes, it is.

Yeah.

What goes into deciding what you're going to require?

Because it varies so much between programs.

It does, yeah.

You know, I'm not sure there's any real defined, you know, set of things or criteria that a PA program uses to set their prerequisites.

I think they just, you know, are looking for.

And in a sense, that's what we did.

We were looking at what are the classes that we feel would prepare the PA applicant to succeed well in our program.

And so as we look at the different courses that one could take in order to prepare themselves, then we ask the question, well, yes, that might prepare them, but is it something that we want to require as a hardcore prerequisite, meaning if you don't have it, you know, you don't meet our minimum requirements for application.

So, you know, what we did was we just balanced whether or not that would be a potential barrier or challenge or whether that is a barrier or challenge that is like.

Well, it's significant enough of a preparation course or, you know, preparation type of activity that we want to require it, or is it a high enough challenge or barrier?

But it's not really doing a lot to prepare the student.

We feel that, you know, we're then not going to require it.

So, you know, we have some requirements, of course, on there, but there is some leeway in our prerequisites in that, you know, with the basic requirements that we have listed.

We also then accept any other type of biology or any other type of chemistry to give some of the freedom to the applicant to say, I'm taking this course or I've taken this course as part of my major, part of my degree.

And that might not meet the strict requirements, but it has prepared me for the rigors of a PA program at a graduate level.

Yeah.

Okay, that's great insight.

Thank you.

Can you say if there's one part of the application that you would say is the most important, does that exist?

Yeah, sure.

Absolutely.

I would say probably the most important for us is a demonstration of volunteerism, demonstration of community service.

We, as I said, place a high value on that in our students, in our graduates that is tightly linked to the Doctorate of Medical Science integrated program as well.

Service and humanitarianism in that regard.

So that is a real key component for us when we are looking for a good match.

For us, we want to see an extended history of volunteerism and community service and in particular to a rural or underserved community patient population, something like that.

That again, really shows us that.

That they would be a good match for what it is that we want to do here and then ultimately who we want our graduates to be.

Okay, that's helpful too.

Is there anything that if you were to see it on an application or maybe even in an interview, would just be like a red flag, like that's not going to be a good fit, let's move on kind of thing?

No, I don't think so.

There's nothing that's coming to mind that I would say this probably isn't the right program for you.

I think that.

Yeah, I think that would potentially be shortchanging ourself.

I think we need to look at everybody.

Certainly as we evaluate people, we get a sense of who they are through their application on paper.

Certainly when we interview them, we get a better sense of who they are.

So in that process, we collectively get a sense for who the applicant is.

And in that process we might start to understand, well, you know, they might not be the best fit or best match for us.

But in terms of, you know, an initial review, if there's, you know, one thing that might stand out.

I don't think that there is.

Yeah, I mean, some of the things people ask about or get worried about are like having some lower grades, especially maybe towards the beginning of their academic career.

Sure.

Withdrawals and any like, misdemeanor type things.

Academic Probation type situations.

I feel like students in those situations sometimes feel very anxious.

That mistake, even from a very long time ago, might completely ruin their chances of ever becoming a pa. Would you maybe say that's not complete or,.

You know, certainly if those things are not on an application, it's taken into consideration with the other things that are on their application.

Right.

You know, I, as well as all the faculty here, you know, remember what it was like to be a freshman sophomore in college and potentially some of this, the, you know, lack of academic experience to be able to go along with that and potentially some lower grades as a result.

So we want to show tons of, you know, grace towards students who might have struggled academically early on or might have, you know, made some bad choices, resulting in some things.

We want to leave lots of room for the individual to explain that.

So if somebody does have lower GPAs or has prerequisites that are on the lower side, we do allow them to explain that and we want them to be able to articulate that, you know, kind of the reasons why things that they've learned.

But then we also are looking for then a demonstration of them, you know, being able to then, you know, get the grades up, you know, be able to, you know, do things that show growth and maturity in them as they progress along academically and personally.

But, you know, I wouldn't say that there's any, you know, one thing that we would say.

Yeah, that that's just not going to be at.

With the exception of somebody who might have something on their criminal record that would prevent them from even getting a license.

Right.

You know, each state medical board is slightly different, but, you know, in Oregon, there are certain, certain things that if somebody has it on their, on their criminal record, it actually prevents them from being able to get a license.

I think it would be irresponsible of us to admit that student and have them, you know, go through the program and pay all that tuition only to graduate and realize that they actually can't even get a license and can't practice.

So if we do see something like that, maybe, you know, something at that level, you know, then, then we would say, hey, you know, this, this, this isn't going to work for us.

And, you know, they might find a program in a state where that might be different because, you know, the, the laws do vary state to state in terms of.

Of the, the licensing board for that state.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Okay.

I have one last question, and this is more along the lines of as someone who has been a PA For a long time, worked with a lot of programs.

What should potential applicants really be looking for in a program and what kind of questions should they be asking to just make sure it's a good fit for them?

That's something I try to emphasize, like, just because you meet the requirements doesn't mean it's a good fit both ways.

So what should they kind of be looking into more?

Yeah, you know, I think a great place to start is with the mission and vision of the program.

Obviously that's a pretty, you know, basic first step that an applicant should do to see if the mission and vision and goals and values listed on the website is something that resonates with, with the applicant.

I think looking at the curriculum, right?

How is the curriculum set up?

What type of curriculum is it?

You know, what kind of things will I be doing in the didactic year, what kinds of extensions, experiences will I be having in the clinical year and everything in between?

And, you know, how might that either resonate or not resonate with what kind of learner I am, how I learn, you know, what kind of experiences I'm looking for in terms of clinical rotations.

Am I looking for, you know, things that are more, you know, reflective of suburbs or more reflective of, you know, potentially an urban setting or more reflective of a rural setting?

You know, and so those kinds of things you should be able to tell by a review of a PA program website.

Certainly, you know, just the basic prerequisite requirements.

Right.

You know, sometimes just looking at them saying, well, you know, I meet these PA program requirements, but I don't meet those.

And so I'm going to apply to these just because, you know, I already have everything that I need to apply to that program.

I don't know if one should make a single decision based on that, but that's, you know, definitely a criteria that someone should use because, you know, I know that it's, it is, it's an expense and it sometimes is difficult to take those prerequisite courses, especially if someone has a family or other responsibilities and is working full time.

And then, you know, certainly geographic area, right?

You know, where does, where does somebody want to, want to live?

You know, a cross country move is a great and fun thing, but, you know, sometimes moving cross country to an area that you're not familiar with that can, you know, being there and adjusting to the climate or adjusting to the geography can be a challenge along with going through a PA program.

So I think just geographic location also needs to be taken into consideration in terms of what the Applicant is used to what they like.

Some people like cold weather, some people like hot weather, like the desert.

I mean, everything in between.

A big city versus not so just geographic location, I think is another important factor.

And then certainly what kind of other opportunities are available at the university.

So whether it's part of a academic health center where there's going to be a large university hospital system and somebody might, you know, really, really like that kind of environment versus somebody says, no, I'd rather go to a large university that has a big undergrad component, you know, a large, you know, university with a big football team and Division 1 athletics.

And you know, because, you know, they want that kind of experience as part of their graduate school versus a small, you know, private institution, maybe not in a big city, is going to provide a slightly different feel.

So I think, you know, some of those maybe non academic factors need to also be taken into consideration.

Certainly if an applicant is from an area where there are a lot of PA programs either within that state or even within the area that they are, they need to, you know, be looking closely at those programs that are close around them, you know, because it's, it would obviously not require a geographic move, but they might already be familiar with a lot of the universities that are right close to where they live.

And so that might, you know, increase their, their likelihood that, that they want to get into those programs because they're, you know, right there in the city in which they live or within the state that they live.

And then I would say lastly, if a person has any kind of, kind of inclination of where they might want to live and practice after graduation, right.

Whether it be, you know, moving close to a spouse or partner's family or whether they have siblings that live somewhere and they say, ultimately we want to end up close to them or in this city or end up close to our parents over here, then it might, you know, be that they go to a PA program close to that so that they can, you know, kind of network and develop those relationships and connections in PA school that will lead to a job where then they can then just step right into a job and not have to move after graduation because they're already living in an area where they wanted to end up in already after graduation.

So, you know, all of those things together, I think are important things to look at when deciding where to go.

No, those are all great points.

Location was a big one for me.

So it makes a difference.

And especially getting a job.

It made a huge difference.

Absolutely.

For sure.

So, okay, well, where can people find out more about the school and the program?

Where should they look for info?

Yeah, so certainly our website is going to be really the primary area that applicants and potential students are going to find out all sorts of information, not only about our PA program, but about the university, about George Fox, about where we're located just outside of Portland.

You know, that's going to be a primary one.

We do have social media, although, you know, we are starting to try and increase the frequency with which we are posting on social media, because we know that's important.

So you should be able to find us through, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, just by searching George Fox PA program.

And so that can be another way to get information.

It can be another way to kind of see what's happening in the program, stay up to date with, you know, different things that.

That.

That we are highlighting.

And, you know, I think.

I think beyond that, you know, those are.

Yeah, I would say those are probably the two.

Two primary ways social media and our website to be able to get information.

Certainly potential applicants are more than welcome to call.

They're more than welcome to email.

Our admissions counselor asks questions, specific questions about them, you know, and how they.

How they might match up in an applicant.

And, you know, certainly people are more than willing to show up on campus and, you know, walk around, you know, look around.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Yeah.

It looks beautiful from your picture.

Well, I. Yeah.

And looking at the website, I mean, I think y' all have a great, very thorough website, and I love the handbook.

So I think that would be very helpful for people to look at, to learn more about the program and just about the process.

So thank you so much for your time.

Yeah, absolutely.

Savannah, thank you.

Really appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk about our program.

It's, you know, I think it is really great to be able to highlight some of the new programs that are out there, you know, just to talk about maybe the things that they're able to offer that might be different from, you know, other programs that people are considering that might resonate with a potential applicant and say, you know, yes, that's the program I want to go to because of something that they're offering that is potentially unique.

So thank you for the opportunity to be able to talk about what we're doing here.

Yeah, of course.