This episode is packed with inspiring advice for women at every stage of their careers, especially those ready to step into leadership roles and empower the next generation. If you’re looking for a dose of courage and actionable strategies, you won’t want to miss this conversation!

I welcome Michelle Madden, CEO of Epic. Michelle’s journey is nothing short of remarkable—from her humble beginnings as a young woman facing homelessness at 17, to leading an organization that provides 24/7 care for individuals with disabilities. I have known Michelle for years, and our conversation is filled with wisdom on what it truly means to scale up as a woman in leadership.

Michelle shares candidly about the importance of taking initiative, creating your own seat at the table, and fostering a culture of innovation and belonging at Epic.

You'll hear how her lived experiences shaped her compassionate but bold leadership style, and why advocating for yourself and others—especially in tough moments—can lead to real change.

This episode is packed with inspiring advice for women at every stage of their careers, especially those ready to step into leadership roles and empower the next generation.

Here are my top 3 takeaways for any woman striving to claim their seat at the table:

Lead Without Waiting for Permission: Don’t wait to be asked! Michelle’s advice: See a problem? Step up and solve it. Initiative and solutions-focused thinking earn that seat at the table.

Build a Culture of Belonging: Epic’s success is rooted in its inclusive culture, which values authentic voices and tough conversations. True innovation happens when everyone feels they belong and can contribute.

Prepare Others for the Table: Real leadership is about succession—investing in future leaders and making space for others to rise. Michelle’s approach to mentorship ensures others have the chance to scale up, too.

Moments

00:00 From Park Bench to CEO

04:26 Intuition and Decision-Making Discomfort

06:36 "Initiative Leads to Recognition"

11:45 "Epic's Rebranding and Mission Focus"

16:05 "Mentor's Retirement Concerns"

19:02 Persistence in Political Ambitions

22:25 "Listening and Confidence in Asking"

22:57 Empowering Frontline Female Leaders

27:38 Empowering Women Through Mentorship

30:07 "Embrace Change, Evolve Consciously"

32:49 "Embracing the Journey"

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This is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social, and political achievement.

Hosted by Betty Collins, CPA, and Director at Brady Ware and Company. Betty also serves as the Committee Chair for Empowering Women, and Director of the Brady Ware Women’s Initiative.

Each episode is presented by Brady Ware and Company, committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home.

For more information, Brady Ware and Company.

Remember to follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.  And forward our podcast along to other Inspiring Women in your life.

Brady Ware and Company

Betty Collins [: 00:00:00

Welcome to Inspiring Women. And I'm so glad that you are joining us today. I have a really special guest. You know, sometimes I guess it's. I'm meeting from them for the first time when I'm interviewing them and we find people to interview and. But this is someone who I really know. And we, we have had a great journey together the last three to four years, and we've been doing about women who scale up, women who go from, you know, the very bottom to the top and how did they do it and how. What were the drivers and all the things of how do you in today's world as a woman? And this is a person who has scaled, navigated, gone up the hill, slid back down the hill, stayed on top of the hill, fought for the table that she sits at.

Betty Collins [: 00:00:44

And so I think you're really, really going to enjoy her. She's a very passionate person with what she does. We take. She, her agency takes care of people with disabilities. These are people who need care 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the rest of their lives, every. And they count on providers like hers that get out there and take care of people. It's all about the human contact and quality of life. And she's very passionate about it, and you'll hear that in her today.

Betty Collins [: 00:01:14

So I have with me today Michelle Madden. She is the CEO of Epic. Thank you. Epic. She does epic things and she's going to talk about that today. And that agency takes care of a lot of people and they do it so well. They make it look so easy. And she's surrounded through a pandemic and all the things that go on and everything that you're constantly in a fight for.

Betty Collins [: 00:01:36

So not. It's not only just I'm at the table and I'm eating, I am fighting every day for people with disabilities. And these are people. And so she just has all of that mix I think you're going to really enjoy here today. So welcome, Michelle. So glad that you are giving us your time today to talk about your story, your journey, your scaling. So first, what I would like to do is just, you know, kind of talk about. I'm Michelle.

Betty Collins [: 00:02:00

You know, I always go around going, I'm Betty Collins, the Betty Collins. And just tell us a little bit about you, your kids. You have, you have a great family and all that. So give us a little insight on you.

Michelle Madden [: 00:02:11

So, Betty, thank you for having me today. I'm extremely humble and grateful for this opportunity. I really am. You know, I'm a little shy at times. So no, she's not shy ever.

Betty Collins [: 00:02:24

Okay.

Michelle Madden [: 00:02:25

You know, as we've discussed before, I'll give you a little backstory about where I came from and how, where I am now. I am, you know, very blessed and grateful to be the CEO of Epic. But prior to that, you know, I come from very humble beginnings. I am a product of welfare, survived abuse and neglect as well as homeless at 17, sleeping on a park bench, you know, and then being taken in and couch hopping for a couple year, about a year and a half, you know, so. And then becoming a young mother and wife, blessed with two amazing children. I have a 32 year old daughter who's an attorney and a 27 year old son and daughter in law who are both teachers. My son is a special ed teacher and also, you know me for a year and so I have two grandpops, no grandchildren yet. So, you know, I, I have just always wanted better and I, starting from those, you know, beginnings to now, it really, I didn't realize it until you reflect back on your life where, where.

Betty Collins [: 00:03:30

Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:03:31

So yeah, I'm happy to tell the story.

Betty Collins [: 00:03:33

Well, I'm always inspired to hear everybody has a story. Okay. It may not be as dramatic as somebody else's, but it's their life and it's their journey and you never underestimate that because what you're, what you've gone through and how you've done things. We'll talk to somebody like people can make it. People can do this. You know, women can do this. So we're going to get into some things with Michelle. At Epic.

Betty Collins [: 00:04:00

You've built a reputation for champion innovation and empowering teams. For sure. I see it when we work together. You often talk about creating a seat at the conference room table and ultimately becoming the CEO. Can you give us back to that moment when you realized how important that message was both for your own career and for inspiring other women?

Michelle Madden [: 00:04:26

So I thought about that question a little bit because there's been a couple opportunities that have come up. But I thought about a time in my career where I was at a meeting and we were talking and making decisions for staff and their wages, our programs and the people most affected by it. And I had this overwhelming. And I'm always about my gut and my intuition. Look for signs and this familiar feeling that I had where, you know, being an outsider and that somebody was putting input that affected my life and my well being that I didn't have control over and felt the very same thing for the people we were making decisions for. It wasn't thought out. And so it really, you know, made me feel uncomfortable. And I walked out of that meeting going, this can't happen.

Michelle Madden [: 00:05:16

And we had a follow up meeting and I came back and I brought, you know, I thought to myself, I'm not going to ask permission. I'm just going to go and do this work. I'm going to put the data, I'm going to tell the stories, I'm going to get the data, I'm going to come up with a solution and I'm going to come back with it. That was the right thing to do. And without realizing what I had done, I had claimed a seat at that table.

Betty Collins [: 00:05:39

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:05:40

And sometimes, you know, it just happens. And being part of, you know, I think also, you know, I identify as a sponge. I always say that I take the good from people. I take the things I don't want to be.

Betty Collins [: 00:05:51

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:05:52

And so I think by studying leaders that I had had come up before me or people that had been good in my life, you know, I copied what they did by doing that and then, you know, also credit them when those things happen. But I felt really good leaving that meeting. Not all my solutions came to fruition, but I became then a go to person for somebody thinking outside the box. And I created that space. And that was, you know, I was afraid, not going to say I wasn't, I was, I was early in my career. I worked for a difficult CEO at the time, but I felt good. And I think sometimes that's more important than just doing what you're told.

Betty Collins [: 00:06:36

Yeah. Well, I hear two things that I love in that answer. First is you just took initiative. In other words, you led without a title. Nobody understands that value. And so when people see it and all of a sudden, you know, you're, this is our new rising star. No one said, please be the rising star. Someone said, we have a problem and you solved it.

Betty Collins [: 00:07:02

And when women do that, you might get to now be in the room where the table is with the chairs. Right. It's your step in that door when you lead without a title and that's huge. It's just knowing that you.

Michelle Madden [: 00:07:15

One of our core values is belonging. And I think knowing that you belong there.

Betty Collins [: 00:07:18

Yes.

Michelle Madden [: 00:07:18

And if you go in there and show up like you belong there and bring receipts and you are undeniable. I am there because I am the expert on this or I, I'm going to ask some of those hard questions that. And again, it can go twofold with women. Sometimes we get viewed other ways.

Betty Collins [: 00:07:36

Oh yes, but, so we have to.

Michelle Madden [: 00:07:38

We have to balance that. But I do think, you know, when you perceive yourself as you, you have, you deserve to be there. Yeah, that's a big difference. And I never knew that really until that moment. Like it was something in my pit where I'm like, this isn't right.

Betty Collins [: 00:07:58

Yeah. And women think they need to be assigned or asked instead of no, I see a problem, I'm going to solve it. And I may not get a pay raise tomorrow. But those, those, that's the difference of being in my mind a value versus an expense. You're overhead over here, you're really valuable over here because they're going up.

Michelle Madden [: 00:08:21

Investment.

Betty Collins [: 00:08:22

Correct.

Michelle Madden [: 00:08:22

On that investment. Me going in there ultimately was a return on investment for my career.

Betty Collins [: 00:08:27

Absolutely and truly. You went in not confident necessarily. You had some fear. And women deal with fear all the time. And that holds us back. It's a huge barrier. But also I tell women, look, I don't know why you're wa for someone to pat you on the back. Nobody values you like you.

Betty Collins [: 00:08:44

And so you have to take those moments and seize them. It's not easy to do. I still can't, can cower as much as anybody else going, oh, no, I have nothing to say. But. But that moment, I'm sure you have used that after that time. Right. And knowing that I hear a problem, I'm going to resolve it whether they asked me to or not.

Michelle Madden [: 00:09:03

And that's kind of the impetus of my career. I look where, you know, one of the things, you know is, you know, trying to solve problems nobody wants to handle.

Betty Collins [: 00:09:11

Yes.

Michelle Madden [: 00:09:12

Because really, you know, that, you know, you become the go to person for those things.

Betty Collins [: 00:09:18

Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:09:18

And also it's a lot of fun. I mean, I like things so that for me, not suffering, but for me, that's a lot of fun.

Betty Collins [: 00:09:26

You know, there are people who are really meant to, to be behind a desk and be behind their thing and they, they grind all day. And we need those type of folks, especially in accounting. It's a good.

Michelle Madden [: 00:09:37

Absolutely.

Betty Collins [: 00:09:37

Accounting you got. She's like, finances are not my deal. She tells me that daily. But she's come a long way, folks.

Michelle Madden [: 00:09:43

I don't speak finances.

Betty Collins [: 00:09:46

We've gotten her there though. She knows more than she thinks. But, but we definitely, as women need to take that. What your answer to go. Look, if you're seeing problems, solve them. You will become the go to. Just make sure you're valued as the go to at some point.

Michelle Madden [: 00:10:01

Yes.

Betty Collins [: 00:10:02

Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:10:02

Thing is knowing, you know, it's okay to say you don't know something and that you, you're weak in that because you can't be the expert at everything. But if you go and you find out who the expert is, when I have finances problems, I don't go to Michelle Madden because she don't know. I go to Betty Collins. Collins is gonna go, no, no, no, Michelle, right here. This is, you know, so you go to those people who are the experts, and then you do the same for them, right?

Betty Collins [: 00:10:28

Correct. Well, no, that's great answer. So, so at Epic, where you are, you know, the top guy, but you also have a ton of. You have am building something, you've done well, but you're part of an organization that, that thrives on innovation and collaboration. You have to, I mean, what you do is tough. You are dealing with human beings 24 7, and it's a. It's really hard. And your team that you have, the layers are really tough to do.

Betty Collins [: 00:10:55

But, you know, so you got to have innovation and you got to collaborate wherever you can. And you've done that with, not just within your organization, with others. So how has EPIC culture influenced, you know, your views on creating a seat at the conference table?

Michelle Madden [: 00:11:11

So one of the things, you know, I've been with Epic for 20 years. I've only been the CEO since 2020, but I was in best year ever, right? To be a CEO, I got to give kudos, you know, looking for opportunities, you know, out of. I would not be the leader I am today without going through the pandemic. Right. I would have probably been slower to make innovative changes, things of that nature and having some really hard conversations. It really made me a little grittier and I needed that. And that was, you know, so I'm, I'm looking at the positive.

Betty Collins [: 00:11:45

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:11:45

But one of the things I will say is, you know, Epic, even as, as long as I've been here, and from an HR professional before that, we, we had a mission statement, we had all this, but we never really put it into words. And so we were fortunate enough to get some ARPA funds to do a rebranding. And during that rebranding, really got all stakeholders involved in DSPs, families, individuals, serv, you know, administration, myself, and really finding and developing who we were and what we were not. And, you know, we're really good at developing people. That's what we do. And we're okay at owning mistakes and all of those things. And so, you know, my leadership team, I'm just going to brag for a minute because I don't get this.

Betty Collins [: 00:12:32

You know, they're awesome.

Michelle Madden [: 00:12:34

They're awesome. And 95% of them have worked in the field and have grown up through. Half of them don't have degrees. Just saying, like, they're professionals.

Betty Collins [: 00:12:44

Yes.

Michelle Madden [: 00:12:44

Do an amazing job. And we've created space for them, and I'm very proud of that. But, you know, on epic, we run on five core values. Belonging, authenticity, transformation, and community. And with all five of those, we embrace that in every day of what we do. And with that, you know, it's not just, you know, a poster on the wall. It is our practice. And we design spaces where voices are heard.

Michelle Madden [: 00:13:13

And we stay for difficult conversations. We stay for those difficult back and forth. We've been in meetings where that's happened, right?

Betty Collins [: 00:13:19

Yes. Oh, absolutely.

Michelle Madden [: 00:13:21

And where. That's really where the magic and the real change happens. And so I think it's ingrained in who we are and has been. We just finally have been able to really put that in practice on paper, you know?

Betty Collins [: 00:13:35

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:13:35

And I can tell you for myself, I've always surrounded myself around with people who ask tough questions, who don't tell me what I want to hear, and quite frankly, are smarter than myself. And so when you do that inadvertently, you're creating, you know, a bigger table and more chairs. And I think at that point, then you're able to do more bolder and braver things, which we just have inadvertently done through having those core values.

Betty Collins [: 00:14:06

But what's funny about your. Not funny, but what's great about your answer is most people look at we rebranded, and they think that's all about marketing. It is. It's obviously a marketing function. But you took and said, we're going to rebrand to basically make sure we know who we are. What is our mission? Are we following? I mean, you took it to a different level of being personal. And. And that's how organizations, Organizations like your scale under that kind of leadership.

Betty Collins [: 00:14:37

Because it was not just, should it be dark purple, should it be light pink? I mean, all those things were there, right. That was not the big thing. It was, is this going to reflect who we are?

Michelle Madden [: 00:14:49

And the big question during that whole rebranding was, who are we not?

Betty Collins [: 00:14:52

And, oh, I love it.

Michelle Madden [: 00:14:54

Just changing that thought process. Who are you not? And I was like, oh, oh. Like, that was a harder question to answer. And. And it was. It was a wonderful session. I've actually listened to the session a couple times. So.

Betty Collins [: 00:15:09

Yeah. Well, I mean, that's all part of someone, you know, you have. You Always take things in the optimistic way. And even though rebranding sounds fun, you still sat and had hard conversations about it and had to really think it through versus just rebrand.

Michelle Madden [: 00:15:25

Yeah.

Betty Collins [: 00:15:25

So those are the kind of things that make it Epic. Right. Because we're gonna. We're gonna go down those paths. So. But can you share a time when you had to advocate for your seat at the table? Because again, I tell people, I don't know why you're not patting your own self on the back, because no one values like you. Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:15:43

And you as well.

Betty Collins [: 00:15:44

I have told you that because it's just true. But how in the moment shaped your leadership journey when you had to advocate for that seat? You know, how did that change the journey, the scaling, when you had to do that?

Michelle Madden [: 00:15:58

So, you know, I talked earlier about as an HR professional, I did come in and I inadvertently created that seat.

Betty Collins [: 00:16:05

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:16:05

Fast forward to later at my time here at epic. My amazing mentor and person who took a chance on this young person as the HR director, Ana Barrett, was retiring. And I was talking with a colleague at the time, and we were talking about. And I was talking more from a way of who's my boss going to be? Because, you know, when that change happened, somebody who'd been here 28 years was so impactful in my life. And, you know, anytime that change happens, it can be disruptive. And. And so I was having this conversation with a colleague, and she looked at me and she goes, well, Michelle, you can't be the CEO. You're a people person.

Michelle Madden [: 00:16:45

You don't know the finances or the programming and all this. And first of all, that wasn't the conversation I was having. And I. But I walked out very angry, very bewildered, confused, and like, why can't I be right now? I. I then applied for the job. I didn't get it, which is okay. But I made it to the final round and the board was split on their decision.

Betty Collins [: 00:17:10

Oh, wow.

Michelle Madden [: 00:17:11

There were five of us in that room. And it was. It came down to, well, you don't understand this. And. But then I took that opportunity to learn those things. Fast forward to my predecessor gave his notice. The board president walked in, said, can we talk to you? They offered me the job on the spot because I had already created that seat. I took it, didn't.

Michelle Madden [: 00:17:32

You know, and again, this was in February of 2020, so fun times. Myself into reconsidered, but no, I wouldn't. But I took on that. And again, I knew it wasn't going to be easy. So I create that seat for myself. And I think you're always creating that seat, you know, because you're going to be. There's going to be different areas. Being on the OPERA board, I created seat.

Michelle Madden [: 00:17:59

I created that. I am on the executive board. When I talk with legislators, even my own board, you know, we had some financial struggles. I don't speak finances, you know, took my lumps. But I came back and I have earned the respect of them, saying, nope, yes, trust her. I know it's. It. It took two years, but you.

Michelle Madden [: 00:18:17

Sometimes you have to take a step back. Sometimes you have to look yourself in the mirror and go, okay, there were times during this journey, I've even had to look and go, is this for me? Do I want this? Is this the seat I want?

Betty Collins [: 00:18:29

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:18:29

And that's okay. That's okay, too. Don't feel like you failed. It's because, again, I think being where you feel you deserve that seat, you want to be in that seat is important as well.

Betty Collins [: 00:18:42

Right, right. And, you know, in my own life, as you know, and you've heard me talk about, I lost an election, and not only lost, I came in last. Right. And I really wanted the seat at council. Right. I really wanted to be on that council seat. And someone told me, maybe there's just a different role. You chose the wrong one first.

Betty Collins [: 00:19:02

Or maybe you need to learn from the approach you took. Because Joanne Davidson ran for her city council in her little town, I think, of Westerville, and. And she ends up being the speaker of the House for years at the. In the Ohio legislature. She just didn't. She like you, she said, okay, I wanted that seat. I didn't get that seat. Now how am I going? How am I going to get to that seat? Right? And so I love your positive of.

Betty Collins [: 00:19:27

I just didn't sit. And then when the opportunity came in, it was perfect, right? Not Perfect. It was 2020, which. Which even kind of probably was more of a challenge as anyone was going through at that time. In business, it doesn't matter. But add the human element to it that you guys do it, then 2020 becomes a totally different thing than Betty Collins, the CPA, sitting at the desk, going, no one's allowed in. You know, scan everything. Those are different.

Betty Collins [: 00:19:51

Those are different problems. But you took and you seized the moment and you didn't step back. And as women, we have to go. If I want that seat, I have to take it. And sometimes that's me advocating for me, because nobody values me like me. And so. But I love the fact too. That you question, man, is this the seat I want? Because sometimes you get there and you're like, I made it, though.

Betty Collins [: 00:20:14

I have to stick it out. I made it. You know, do you have to stick it out? Because if it's not, you don't know the seat till you're there, right?

Michelle Madden [: 00:20:21

No, you don't. And. And one of my. My things I say often to anybody is, enjoy the journey. I didn't choose hr. I didn't choose, you know, me at epic. I didn't choose these things. They kind of chose me through the, you know, and.

Michelle Madden [: 00:20:35

And things felt right and looking for those signs. So enjoy that. Jo. Sometimes things are meant for a season or they're meant for longer. Depends.

Betty Collins [: 00:20:42

Right, Right. There's just something bigger and different for you. You know what I mean, Then? And sometimes playing it safe means we stay away from that room we're supposed to be in. And. And that doesn't do you any good because you'll always regret going, I didn't even try to go back. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, my goodness. But anyways. Well, for women who feel that they're in the room, but they're not at the table, and that's a very real thing.

Betty Collins [: 00:21:07

Right. What are the first steps they can take to grow into leadership and eventually, you know, those executive roles.

Michelle Madden [: 00:21:16

Again, I'm going to circle back to what I said earlier. Own a problem that nobody wants to handle that you're good at. Like, you know, that you can, you know, own that problem, and then you become the go to. I think that gives you, you know, when you start to build and then ask a lot of questions, I think the other thing that's been. And again, I. I'm going to say, you know, I've. I've identified as a sponge. I take from people.

Michelle Madden [: 00:21:40

And my. My mantra is, is, you know, imitation is the highest form of flattery. I take things from people, and some people like, oh, she stole that from me. I give you credit. I took this from this person because I really liked it. That is. That is a form of flattery for me.

Betty Collins [: 00:21:53

Yeah.

Michelle Madden [: 00:21:54

And so be a sponge. Shadow that excellence. Copy it. But give credit. Give credit. Gratitude builds trust and can go a long way. You know, also building your personal board of directors. I say this often, have those people around you that when you go in and say, I want to do something, like I did with, you know, Betty and another colleague on my personal board and said, I'm thinking of going into my board and asking this, and they're like, yeah, wait a minute, you're discrediting yourself, you're doing that.

Michelle Madden [: 00:22:25

And they told me things that I didn't want to hear. They understood why I was doing it, but they told me that they really were truthful with me because truly are my friend, my colleague, my board of director. You're going to do those things, right? But then also you have to listen. Yes, you always have to agree. You don't always have to do, but you have to listen and be that for somebody else. Ask and ask, clearly ask. The worst thing you're going to be told is no right. Have the confidence and courage to ask.

Michelle Madden [: 00:22:57

I'm going to tell a story. I have a young frontline supervisor and you know, I, I, I'm building up these women that I want them to have a voice, you know, our correct support professionals, you know, we are 100 Medicaid funded. We dictate what they're going to get paid. And I am trying to give them a voice when they speak with legislators on daycare, on wages, health care, on, you know, their school boards, you know, any of those things. And so she'd been in her job for six months and I get this well crafted email and she is, I have learned my job, I think I deserve a raise. I mean this is what I, by the right, right? Of course, I'm like, what the heck is this person, this 24 year old coming at me like this? And I sat on it and I marinated it. I went, I'm a little proud, didn't hit right. But I'm a little proud of this because this is what I, this is what I wanted her to do.

Michelle Madden [: 00:23:48

So we came in, we had a conversation about it and in talking, she was coming in bold, she was coming in hot. She, there were some hiccups in there, but we use teachable moment. But she is one of the people that eventually, hopefully down the road, 20 years from now, she's going to be sitting in a big chair.

Betty Collins [: 00:24:05

Yeah, absolutely.

Michelle Madden [: 00:24:07

Creating that. So sometimes take those risks, even if it does have a little bit of, you know, negative can be good in the long run.

Betty Collins [: 00:24:15

Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:24:16

So but you know, those would be the things, you know, just ask for what you want.

Betty Collins [: 00:24:20

Well now I'm going to ask you a question that you're not prepared for. But that's okay because one of the things you said in there that struck me and because I know your team, because one of the things about being at the table is you have to share that table, you have to get people to get to that table, what you're talking about. And you have people that, you know, probably 10 years ago, I don't know, came to your agency for a job.

Michelle Madden [: 00:24:43

Yes.

Betty Collins [: 00:24:44

And which is great because we did this industry needs. We need more people that want to come in to have it do a job there. But they are now in leaderships. I mean, I think of your coo, I think of your finance department, and these are women who stayed the course. But I really believe under your leadership, where they're seeing, scaling up, they're seeing those things happen. You have this team that if you needed to leave that table, you have people who can fill that table.

Michelle Madden [: 00:25:14

Correct. And that back to when Anna Barrett retired, there was a bunch of. She'd been here for 28 years. She was an amazing human, God rest her soul. I love and admire her. But that succession planning, when she left, there was a gap.

Betty Collins [: 00:25:32

Yep.

Michelle Madden [: 00:25:32

And I think for us, especially since not only do I have the lives of 200 employees, I have the lives of 130 individuals and their family. And so if. If I leave, there is an immense responsibility. So I do believe by setting up. And that's hard sometimes because again, now I fought and clawed so hard to get to this seat. I'm sitting in my chair.

Betty Collins [: 00:25:55

Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:25:58

But I think that also goes to. You're a really great leader. I mean, and I'm not on the back on that.

Betty Collins [: 00:26:05

That's true.

Michelle Madden [: 00:26:06

You know, because again, I don't have to be the smartest person in the room. I don't have to have all the solutions. I have to be responsible to make sure that they're found and executed. That I do know.

Betty Collins [: 00:26:17

But, I mean, you have. When women have. There's a responsibility to show other women how to do this. The other part of it is like, you know, you know me, I run a women's initiative here. I want that to go on forever. I can't be here forever. But I've got women who go, I'm going to do it, but I'm going to do it this way. Okay.

Betty Collins [: 00:26:35

At least it goes on. And they've seen me lead. They'll say things like, I can't be Betty Collins. I go, you don't need to be Betty Collins.

Michelle Madden [: 00:26:42

I don't want you to be Betty Collins.

Betty Collins [: 00:26:43

No, you need to be you. But you know the importance of what we're doing, and you're willing to take that on. And I'm sure you've had those conversations.

Michelle Madden [: 00:26:50

Well, and right now, in our. In our frontline supervisors, what we're talking about in our leadership is who are you developing? And so now, every year, every six months, we're having that conversation, identifying those. Who can we pour into that are our future leaders? Who can we send to a leadership launchpad as a DSP that down the road, maybe three, six months, a year from now, two years from now, five years from now could be a leader? And that our pipeline, because again, as a seasoned HR professional, you know, I'm looking at not filling positions today, but five years from now.

Betty Collins [: 00:27:27

Right.

Michelle Madden [: 00:27:28

Because if I can have that pipeline that keeps the consistency and then also keeps those values and that culture alive, if we. And growing.

Betty Collins [: 00:27:38

So, yeah, no, I mean, I've just seen this evolve with you over the last three to five years, and it's been wonderful to see and you see the confidence they have now. Could they be Michelle and can they lead now? No. Can they be at the table? Probably could, but they know and see how it is to be in that room. And that's what women need to do for women. And I try to do that. And I will say, even when I we just had two meetings, one meeting was, who are you investing in? You know, you got totally invested. You're around this table because we totally invested in you. We spent evenings with you, we took you to these clients, we did these things.

Betty Collins [: 00:28:16

Things. Who are you doing that with? And they were kind of silent. So the challenge is you got a whole young team under you. They. It is hard work, but look at the work someone put into you. Right. And you know, and then I serve on a couple committees at bradyware when it deals with compensation finance. And this last time we were having a whole thing and I said, I'm not at the table to look at the menu.

Betty Collins [: 00:28:39

I'm here to eat. And I have to say these things. And so it's never easy, but you still show people how to conduct themselves when you're, when you're doing that. And I, and just from what I know of you and your agency and senior team, it works that way. I mean, one of the things you do, and I'm going to put a plug for Betty Collins, of course, is you saw the value of a conference a couple years for your leadership team. They probably not been to a lot of that kind of stuff. Right. They went and were inspired, and then they're like, we got to bring more people.

Betty Collins [: 00:29:09

And then you're bringing other people telling people, you got to go to this thing. Those are the things that count when you're there. And you know, do we need to spend all that money on hotels and driving and yeah, it's great. It's great money. It's, it's camaraderie, it's, it's showing women, other women and, and these conferences have that. So you've been a great example in that. Another question, what is the piece of advice or the mantra? Mantra is a great word for you. It has helped you to rise to new Hans heights.

Betty Collins [: 00:29:40

I'm sorry, and how would you share that with others asking to do the same?

Michelle Madden [: 00:29:47

One of the things, I mean, I have, I have several. I'm a quote person so I quote quotes on everything depending on my moment as well as I'll put, you know, I write a Monday motivational.

Betty Collins [: 00:29:57

Yes. Every Monday. I get it.

Michelle Madden [: 00:29:58

Starting the pandemic for one person who said they hated Mondays and Mondays are my favorite day.

Betty Collins [: 00:30:05

Of course they are my favorite day.

Michelle Madden [: 00:30:07

And, and so I started sending out these little PID tidbits to this and now it's grown over TO I think 150 people get it and it's now on, you know, it's on our LinkedIn page and everything. Love it. Wonderful. But one of the things in talking through this and I thinking through this, I was like, if you're not changing your choosing because you evolve, you know, Michelle madden that was 17 years old laying on a park bench is not the same Michelle Madden who's sitting in the big chair. It doesn't mean it doesn't have the same. There's not similarities. But you evolve and you know, that's okay. And again, if you're choosing certain things because you decide we've always done it that way, we're just going to continue doing it that way.

Betty Collins [: 00:30:56

Right?

Michelle Madden [: 00:30:57

Always Betty does it, I don't do it. Well, why is Betty doing it? Is that where it should be? You know, like if you're not changing, you're not asking questions and you're choosing to stay that way and, and if you feel your table's just built for three people around it or versus 20 people around it, you can make bolder and braver choices with the more people you have around that table. And I have found for me, and this works for Michelle Madden, is that the more trusted people I have around that table, the bolder things I can do?

Betty Collins [: 00:31:31

Yes. That's great. That's great. Well, we have enjoyed having you today. I can tell you this much. She knows how to throw a good party. OK. I went to her 70s party.

Betty Collins [: 00:31:41

I dress as 70s as a CPA can. Okay. But a lot of people dress really good. It was awesome. But the takeaway today, obviously, is we need more women at the table. There's a different conversation when that happens, and it isn't because men shouldn't be there. I don't agree with that. There's a place for everyone.

Betty Collins [: 00:31:59

But if you want to get to that table, you have to know the room is yours, the seat is yours, and then surround yourself with people like a Michelle, and go, I can do this if I have that mentor helping me. And. And then you. You can rise and get there, and maybe you won't. You know, there are people who are like, I'm good right here. I. I don't need to go further. No problem.

Betty Collins [: 00:32:20

Because Michelle can't have everyone at the table. Right. You can. Or in your organization, there has to be different tables. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to say it. That's a good way to say it.

Betty Collins [: 00:32:30

So I just want women to be inspired that you can scale. Most of us have never experienced living on a park bench like Michelle. So if she can scale from that park bench to her. Her seat at the table, the throne, whatever you want to call it. No, she doesn't look like it in this chair.

Michelle Madden [: 00:32:45

I never sit in this chair. Well, I love it, and I never thought that.

Betty Collins [: 00:32:49

And part of the fighting spirit is that no one's taken the chair because I've been on the park bench. And so. So there's those things that I've learned from you, and I think it's just. So I really wanted to interview you today to share with my audience that you can do it. It. And, you know, if you get there and you're like, I did it, but I'm. It's not for me, that's okay, too. You know, you just go with it.

Betty Collins [: 00:33:11

But I so appreciate you giving us your time today, and we will make sure that as many people in my audience will hear you and. And hopefully be inspired. So thank you, Michelle, for joining us today. This is an edition of Inspiring Women, and I'm so honored that you would be with me today.