Why do rich countries flirt with fiscal disaster? Zsófia Barta, author of In The Red: The Politics of Public Debt Accumulation in Developed Countries [https://www.press.umich.edu/9726915/in_the_red], challenges a long-held consensus by arguing that the problem of sustained, large-scale debt accumulation is an adjustment issue rather than a governance failure. On this episode Mark talks with Zsófia Barta about how understanding why some countries accumulate substantial amounts of debt for decades hinges on understanding the conditions required to successfully enact painful adjustment measures. You can see Zsófia Barta's full presentation from her April 15th visit to the Rhodes Center here: [https://youtu.be/G5lxTxuIUAw] You can read a transcript of this episode here: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XXn1QbirtDd50D2OTutCZ3HCYZn4p4Vp/view?usp=sharing]