In this conversation, Amalia, Noah, and Kelsey trace the currents of emotional alchemy. Through reflection on their somatic experiences with grief, relief, heartache, breakthrough, relationship, and surrender, they dive deep with each other and with listeners in exploring:

• The solar plexus as both energy and awareness: how feelings transform through embodiment and time
• What defines a “breakthrough” moment, and how story-making, timing, and inner authority may shape that process
• Dehomogenizing the “feel your feelings” orientation
• Identifying where emotions live in and move through the body as they arrive and integrate
• What is grief? Where does it live in the body? 
• Relational Safety and Emotional Maturity: how we can feel whether someone has done their own alchemy, and how that sensing informs whether it’s safe to bring all of our parts to our relationship with them

And lots more. 

🧪 This episode's Lab Partners:

• Amalia is a 4/6 Emotional Generator with the Moon in Pisces
• Noah is a 1/4 Splenic Projector with the Moon in Taurus
• Kelsey is a 5/2 Emotional Manifestor with the Moon in Sagittarius

You can find more about them and their other lab partners at kelseyrosetort.com/labpartners, including bodygraphs, natal charts, and ways to connect with their work.

💖 Stay tuned: New episodes of LAB PARTNERS are released weekly-ish, usually on the Moon’s day.

Intro & Music by Noah Souder-Russo

Lab Partners is a behind the scenes conversation series amongst eight folks who are in a season of experimentation with creativity, authenticity, relationship, collaboration and visibility. We're letting you in on our process as we unpack them together.

Each of us speak the language of human design and some of us astrology as well. These frameworks for awareness have supported our embodied differentiation and relational understanding.

We invite listeners to observe us through these lenses too.

Today's conversation is between Me, Kelsey, I'm a 5, 2 emotional manifestor with moon in Sagittarius.

And me, Noah, I'm a 1, 4 splenic projector with moon in Taurus.

And me Amalia, I'm a 4, 6 emotional generator with a moon in Pisces.

You can learn about the rest of our astrology and designs in the show notes and find more about us and our other collaborators@kelseyrosefort.com lab partners. I like hitting record without a plan and just seeing what happens.

Hey.

Hey.

Anyone have anything top of mind? I have two things. Top of mind informing anybody else? No, go. Okay, so two things.

One, I'm feeling like maybe and we'll see when I get to the end of the second thing if this feels good still.

But maybe we want to just like go around and do another like how we're feeling thing, because we just did that together and I think, yeah, it feels like we're all feeling very specific ways was part of what I got out of that. And since we're gonna be talking a lot about feelings today, allegedly, it might be nice to clue listeners into how we're starting.

I bet you some feelings will be alchemized in this conversation so we can Trace them perhaps.

The other thing is, I was thinking about both Noah and I mentioned prior to hitting record, the agenda lists were showing up, like, what are we gonna talk about? What's this conversation? And like, I had this thought that was like, anytime I plug into Noah or Amalia, there's plenty to talk about.

Like, I'm not worried that we won't find something very substantial to talk about. But then I was like, but wait, this is different, right? Like, this three person plugin is different.

And so, yeah, I was just, like, kind of thinking about that and taking a moment to acknowledge.

I'm so familiar with both of you and with, like, the kinds of swirling and processing and going to outer space and digging in and detangling that we do together in the eighth house world. That is my relationship with each of you. But I don't know this world yet. This is kind of a new world. So welcome to this world.

That's.

So.

Wait, I'm just like, astrologically tracking now. Are you in? That's amazing. So Noah's in your eighth house, and.

You'Re in my eighth house Rising signs.

Yeah, yeah.

Noah's ascendant is in Cancer, my eighth. And you have SAG on the eighth. Amalia.

One second. My headphones are having a connection to it.

Taurus Rising. Yeah, that's correct.

The eighth house.

Yeah. Let's talk about whose houses we're all in. What's Noah's eighth Cancer? Capricorn. Wait, is it Aquarius? Yeah. So you're very in Noah's 8th also.

It's an 8th house day.

It's an 8th House Day. We are talking about emotions in the.

8Th house as Noah makes himself invisible.

Yeah. Literally, my headphones just shit the bed and Noah walked out into the room.

You guys just abandoned me in the eighth house.

Sorry, we're just like a Millie, actually, in an embodied ritual of what the eighth house is.

I literally just walked away from the microphone.

I'm so glad that you named that chart Mathemalia. Like, yeah. Eighth house.

Y. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Welcome. Spooky.

It's a spooky season. 8th House Gathering.

It is.

Does it feel organic to, like, kind of drop in again with another go around of like, what. What's the starting feels today?

Mm.

I was thinking as we were talking, I was like, oh, this is a. Yeah, let's do this.

Let's let people in on that.

Yeah.

Same order. Different order.

Same order works for me.

Fine. Okay. Yeah. I'm the one who asked the question. And yet I still ended up having to go first again, twice.

Yeah, I'm in, like, a hermody mode, which is fine, but I would say, like, second line body. I'm referring to when I say hermody mode.

Like, yeah, it's, like, really distinct for me, which I guess this is stuff I read about the second line early on, but it's like, when I actually feel the shift, it's like, whoa. Like, the doors are open or they're closed. That's how it feels. It's like, I'm available. I've stepped out of my cave with my lantern.

Would you guys like to hang out? You want to see what's shining from my lantern? Or I'm like, back in my cave, and it's like.

It's not even the, like, don't look at me thing that I feel. You know, there's a lot of Leo placements in our collaboratory group. It's not that.

It's not the hyper aware that you're looking at me thing that I know Leo feels a lot. It's like I'm elsewhere right now. I'm in my own world.

I don't really mind that people watch, but, you know, the second line metaphor is like, I'm immersed in. My metaphor is. The metaphor is the guy playing guitar on the first floor of his house with the lights on and so everybody walking by can see him.

Right. It's like, I don't really care that you're looking at me. I'm just not paying attention to that.

You're, like, looking at me like, I'm deep in my own immersion right now. So that's definitely part of how I'm arriving is I'm like, oh, we're going to record something. Okay. I'm.

Yeah, I'm just, like, realizing in real time right now how distinct the feeling is when I feel myself go like, okay, and now it's hermit time. I go from like, I'm available. We're talking. It's happening. I'm in social mode. And then it's like, oh, I'm not.

It's like that world doesn't even exist. See you in, like, two to seven days, maybe. So definitely coming from hermit mode. And yeah, kind of in a low, too. Like. Yeah, just a little.

How does this low feel? What's the texture of this low? I'm, like, a little bit irritable. Yeah, I'm just kind of tired. And, yeah, it doesn't feel low in any kind of bad way.

It's just, like, the absence of the high. The Absence of the high emotional energy. The absence of the energy to, like, do much or share much or.

Yeah, the way I was talking about it before we hit record is like, I feel far away from breakthrough energy. I kind of just feel like I'm stewing right now. Yeah. How are you feeling, Amalia?

For the invitation? Yeah. The way that you just put it, the far away from breakthrough feels resonant, I think. I mean, it feels.

It feels resonant to a feeling I know well. As a fellow emotional being, I'm also in a low and I don't feel far from breakthrough, actually.

I feel like I'm pretty close, but like I'm not currently in it and I think. I'm sure we might. I'm not sure, but we may get into this. But like, I think for me.

Often.

What comes just before the breakthrough is some sort of like, really big emotional expression. And I don't have the energy for that right now. And it's just like, not. I don't have the energy for it because it's not time for that in this moment.

But I can feel it. Like, I feel myself being with grief.

And I have had a particular kind of slow, hard morning where I just really was very intentionally with myself and like, with my grief.

And there was a particular, like, there was a specific kind of clarity I had with myself of like, what I'm sitting with and even of like, moves and moments. But still it's not like time to make moves. It's not time to. Yeah. Like, do any big dramatic. Be any dramatic way.

It always feels very dramatic when I'm like, about to, like, into something and I'm not there. Just with. With grief and change. Yeah. That's where I'm at.

Nice to be situated in the stew with both of y' all in this. Yeah. Then this new configuration, new old configuration of seeing both of y' all on my screen and. And the. The familiarity of being plugged in.

In quote, unquote, separate and the kind of co. Created field and a lot of maybe like innocent excitement for what this. What this field is like.

And so, yeah, I was saying a little before we got on the call that today has felt very spacious for me. And there's been a lot of. There's been lots of experiences of momentary freedom. Freedom of just like sitting by the water over here in Red Hook and.

And watching clouds and being with a dear friend and. Yeah. And I've been thinking about.

Lama Rod Owens uses this phrase to describe Samsara as the carceral state and the kind of carcerality of the mind at times, the carcerality of this incarnation and of this experience of Samsara.

And so I think, for me, as someone who's been in a season, a particular season of that level of carcerality, that it is nice to just attune to what it's like to have moments of spaciousness. And so it's very sweet to show up to that and to be like, yeah, that's here as well. And I think this almost noticing. Yeah, yeah.

Just noticing how that feels to be in this particular state with both of y' all in this moment and, like, share from that and be like, oh, but this is also, honestly where I'm at as well. I feel it's like there's some. Sometimes there's, like, this allure or maybe there's some.

Some juice about, like, being in the muck together, which I love. Which I feel like both of us.

And.

And Amalia, you and I have definitely, like, you know, been reporting live together from. From the muck and muk. Siblings.

Yeah.

Right. And so, yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's just like, okay, this is what it is right now. So I'm curious what's coming up for you, Kelsey?

Yeah, I'm curious if, like, here. Okay, the pattern I'm seeing is Malia and I described ourselves in relation to our proximity, our felt proximity right now to the breakthrough.

And I'm curious if. Well, I'm curious about any way you relate to that concept of, like, proximity to breakthrough.

But I'm also curious in this moment if this, like, spaciousness and this freedom that you're describing feels like breakthrough. And I'm curious in general, but also, like, maybe to name a little context, one of the things.

One of the, like, maybe three or four kind of seed threads that were at one point unintended topic for today's call, which is allegedly going to be about emotional alchemy. I don't know if you can use allegedly in future terms, but I'm doing.

It was like, some of the, like, what is emotional alchemy and what's happening during the process of something being alchemized? And what's different for people who have solar plexus authority or an undefined solar plexus.

So just naming that because that's, like, part of the curiosity of my question and understanding Noah as a splenic authority. Undefined solar plexus. What's the process? And what is your relationship to breakthrough?

But yes, more specifically, I'm curious If this moment of freedom and spaciousness feels like something you would describe as breakthrough.

Yeah. I think you and I have had, you know, that. This conversation around, like, the existentialism of splenic authority and the ways that.

The ways that it is just often it's just in the now. Like, it's right now. And so I think that, like, I. I don't. I don't know. I'm trying to feel through what my relationship to breakthrough is.

I think, like, in this moment, what it feels like is just a particular attunement to what else is available in. In the narrowness of the. In like the tightness of contraction. And so there is like just the kind of zooming out and almost like a. Like a recording.

It's just like, you know, like. Like my body is doing a voice note right now.

Like I am voice noting through my body and registering and taking in the data of what this experience of spaciousness is like. But it isn't. I think there isn't like, it's kind of maybe. Maybe similar.

Like, they're like the mind is trying to attach a story to it and I don't quite have a story at all. And so I feel like for me, it's like. I don't know, somehow I'm equating breakthrough and story together and I, like, don't have a story.

It is like just this. This experience. And so it's just an attunement to this experience. And also like, oh, this is. This is available as well. And just to know that.

And so, like, I've been. Yeah. And I think, like, there is, you know, part of my. My practice recently, especially as things have felt. Yeah. Quite overwhelming and. And just in.

Yeah. Lots of kind of upheaval and uncertainty and. And grief and so on that it has. Perhaps this is.

Yeah.

There's just been this. Like, what. Like how. How can I access ease and spaciousness in this moment?

It's like, how can I remember, like, the earth touching me and holding me and like, can I allow for the love of the earth to permeate my body in this moment? And can I access some sense of liberation and ease and spaciousness right now in this seat, in this apartment, in all of the.

In all of what my mind is storing as unpreferable conditions? Like, what does that feel like? And I think that that almost that momentary attunement to. To what freedom maybe could feel like, feels helpful.

And maybe that is the breakthrough. I don't know. Or maybe that is like.

Yeah.

There is Something in that feels like that particular attunement, that it's like, oh, it doesn't really matter what's happening. Shit is going to happen and continue to happen. And how, even in the storm and in the upheaval, how can I, how can I remember?

And how can I remember that attunement and come back? And maybe that's just all.

Whatever, you know, what this, what practice is sometimes where meditation is or contemplative practice, you know, it's like that process of forgetting and remembering.

Yeah, I'm really hearing. I feel like the factor of time in what you shared and like I was having that awareness really codify.

When you said about you were seeing a relationship between the concept of breakthrough and story. It was like right when you were saying that, that I was like, breakthrough in time.

That's how it was shaping for me as you were describing that is like, yeah, breakthrough has to happen in process. It's something that happens over time. And yeah, I don't have a conclusion around that, but it feels like an interesting noticing.

Why maybe that concept wouldn't register for you as much because your authority doesn't exist over time. It only exists in the now versus mine and Amalia's. Only exists over time. Yeah.

I found myself wondering, Noah, for you, is it like, do you not know when it's coming?

When the breakthrough is coming in the way that both Kelsey and I positioned it as, like, mine is here, mine's there, which both of us don't actually really know that.

Whatever.

I'll speak for myself, I don't actually really know that. But yeah, like in that way, like that. That's what I was wondering. Like, is it just sort of like, oh, surprise for you?

A little bit. A little bit. That is my experience of, of. It's like, oh, now it's like this. In this moment, it's like this and in this moment, it's like this.

And I think that, yeah, there's less of a. I think there's less of a, like a, A stew of sense making, like, where it is. Just like, this is how it is right now and then this is how it is right now. And. And it's like, you know, open head, undefined. Ajna, Like I am.

I'm really into trying to kind of figure out and make sense of it in a particular way.

But.

But often. And I think especially now, like, there's nothing, like, I can't look.

Like nothing is different, you know, quote unquote different in my, you know, external world. And nothing Feels remarkably different. Like, in. In my internal world as well. It's just like, this is like I'm in the. I'm in this door.

Like, I walked through this particular doorway, and now I'm in this room right now. And then there'll be another door open, and I'll walk and I'll be in. In another room. And. Yeah. And so I'm like, yeah.

So I really appreciate that, like, that relationship. Okay. Kelsey had a thing, so I'm gonna.

Sorry.

I love. I love it. I. This is the most exciting thing for me to be. Like, I don't know what's coming out of my mouth. And then Kelsey.

And then you see me, the thing that came out. This is it. Please.

I'm excited that you said walk into another room, because that is perhaps perfectly fits with this metaphor. Budway and I have been playing with around what's different when it comes to the emotional experience for the defined and undefined solar plexus.

But there was something else before I got excited about the room. But I guess that will hang out wherever it is, and perhaps we'll come back. Um. Oh, yeah, there it is.

Presenting this as a question for you, Amalia, but a statement for me when you.

Noah, when you were saying, like, nothing's different, like, I am continuously astonished at how my mood has nothing to fucking do with what's happening in my life. Like, but that's actually.

That's one way that I think I access freedom, even when I'm in the, like, heavy energy of the low is I can see, like, I've watched myself shift, like, move moods so many times now with the awareness granted to me by, like, my experimentation with human design, that, like, I'm just constantly having this experience of, like, I could be watching all of this from a different emotional state, and I would just be, like, neutral to gleeful about what's happening.

But today I'm watching all of this, whatever it is, put literally anything there, collective shit, personal shit, interpersonal shit, does something that has nothing to do with me. Something that has everything to do with me. It doesn't matter. I could watch it right now. I'm watching it from the low.

And it feels like it sucks and it feels bad, but I know now that that's not true. I know that neither of them are true, you know?

So the freedom, I think, for me is like, just in learning to be in relationship with these different parts of the wave rather than to, like, identify with them. But, yeah, the way you phrase that, yeah, that just. That's so that's something I'm not sure I've ever really articulated out loud, but I've.

When you said it, Noah, though, like, nothing's changed about my circumstances, I realized how often that's part of my inner dialogue when I'm moving through stuff.

Like, I'm constantly telling myself, reminding myself, like, this is not actually situational because I remember what it feels like to look at something that looks just like this and feel so spacious and feel levity and feel joy and ease, but right now I don't feel that. And then also vice versa, you know? So, yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious what that.

How you relate to that concept, Amalia, of, like, the external situation is not necessarily correlated to the mood.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm grateful to be in more of a low in this moment to be asked that question, because I think there's, like, for sure my high self would be like, no. And there is, like, there is more realism available to me here.

It's more fun to attach to the high than the low. That's for sure.

Oh, yes, that's true. Although I feel pretty insane when I'm on my highs, so, you know, there's pathology available.

Yeah.

But no scarcity there.

No pathology is always available.

Yes. Yes. Abundance.

Pathology. Abundance.

Abundance. Yeah. I mean, I'm. I think I'm still sifting through what you said, Kelsey.

I think, okay, your question is, like, yeah, I mean, no attachment to the external whatsoever. There's, like, yeah, absolutely nothing to do with the external environment. For sure.

Wild.

Yeah. And I think.

But, like, to the extent that something Noah said about, like, you were like, first you were like, external environment, it, like, doesn't have to do with that. Nothing has changed about that.

But then you were like, also nothing really has changed about my internal environment, and I don't relate to that at all. I'm like, everything has changed about my internal environment. Everything is great or everything is horrible. Like, you know, like.

And I'm like, Even when you're like, no truth in the now, I'm like, the only way I can feed it to my brain is all truth everywhere.

Like, I can't actually, you know, and not in a way that I think, you know, I do have this, like, perpetual sense of I need to meditate more and, like, I need to be less attached to my emotions because I feel so intensely. And even as I say that, I'm also just like, yes. And, like, yeah, I think the place that I'm in right now is like, yeah, all of it.

Is true, and that is what feels true for me. And, like, and it's just always gonna be like that. Like, I'm, like, the shade of. I don't know if it's, like, different rooms for me.

It's just like, the shade of the room is always changing, and, like, it's always going. Changing, and the metaphor always going to have a new story for it. And so I'm. I'm a. I'm a storyteller. Like, and it's just.

It's a new story every day. And that is just like, there's just. That's. That's. That's where I'm at. That's. That's what feels true to my body in this moment.

And it does feel like, if not comforting, like, I feel at peace with it.

I'm. I'm so curious about both of your relationships to Breakthrough, and, like, how. How Breakthrough is felt or how that.

How that happens, or the relationship of, like, Amalia, you saying, like, I'm close. I'm on a low, but I'm close to Breakthrough. Like, what does that. What does that mean for you?

Total.

I think it would be fun. I don't think this is a right now thing, but it's been in my head for a lot of this conversation so far, and I'm putting it out there in case it can.

Yeah, maybe it'll, like, grab some energy and steam throughout the conversation. I'm interested in seeing if, as we're talking today, we can kind of define, like, what are the parts of the process of emotional alchemy.

And I think we've kind of named Breakthrough, perhaps as being one of them, that we have different relationships to the feeling and the process of it, but that it might be a part of it. Yeah, Just naming that in case maybe it can guide our answers to this.

I have an extreme sacral. Yes to that.

Great. Then we'll be able to concentrate on it.

Perhaps I'll keep us on task involuntarily.

Noah, you had said this is a question. Noah, what did you say? It's like a manifesto thing. I think I just innately don't ask questions because my body doesn't really like them.

So I'm always having to inform people the statement I'm about to make is a question. It won't sound like one. The grammar won't be there. The intonation won't be there.

But this is a question you had asked us just about our relationship to Breakthrough, Right?

Yeah.

Okay. Just trying to get us back to there. I Think for me, like, yeah.

That what you pointed out, Amalia, of everything about my internal circumstances have changed, like, in antithesis to what. In contrast, at least to what Noah had shared. Yeah. Like, breakthrough to me is like.

It's like being able to arrive back to a felt connection to the holistic. To the whole of my feelings about something to like. And maybe that's a way of describing clarity, too, is like. It's like I have to go through.

It's a bit hero's journey shit, you know, I have to, like, go through a whole adventure, a whole odyssey, a whole saga with, like, a thing I'm feeling through. And in order for me to honor what I need to meet in each chapter of that journey, I have to forget. There's a part of me that never forgets. Right.

There's a part of me. I often say this is like, I've got one foot in the fifth dimension and one in the third.

And I say that a lot in a lot of different ways, but as applying it to my emotional process. It's like there's always a part of me that remembers this truth of our connectedness and neutrality.

Maybe I think about it a lot as there's a part of me that remembers innocence. There's a part of me that stays very connected to the bigger picture and the sense of love and the sense of acceptance.

But there's a part of me that has to forget what that actually feels like in order to really be with each character I have to meet along my journey of my emotional process. And I. I think, yeah, like, less aware emotional authorities are going to resist those scenes that they have to go through.

I was thinking about that, like, what you validated very enthusiastically, Amalia, of, like, yeah, no correlation to my external circumstances. And I wrote down when you said that, like, so many people don't know that, like, so many.

50% of the planet, emotional authority, most of them have no idea.

Like, I'm not even talking about human design specifically, but just like a lot of emotional beings, defined emotional beings on the planet have no idea that they're not in a mood for any reason other than they need to explore this mood. Like, there's nothing that they need to fix. There's nothing they need to go out and change. There's no part of them or anyone that needs to be blamed.

This is just what's moving through. How did I get here? So breakthrough. Yeah. To me, breakthrough is like, when I come back to a, like, yeah, integration moment. Right.

It's like, I'm no Longer having to focus on the one step in my journey, I'm able to, like, kind of step back out and feel connected to all those parts from this place of, like, wholeness feeling, which I think there does. I think there is actually a. This is so interesting. Oh, my God. For how often I think about this shit.

There's so many nuances of it that I'm already getting to in this conversation that I've, like, never looked at before. But I think that, like, that breakthrough integration moment, I do think is. Is a. I get there in a high, I think.

And then I think I stay there through the neutral. Like, I think that. That. That thing I'm trying to describe of, like, being able to look at it, look at the whole journey from the outside of it.

There's a feeling of high that comes with that. For me, it's like.

So maybe the integration and the clarity are not quite the same thing, but I think it feels really good and exciting to be able to access that sensation again. Of, like. It's like a release, you know, it's an emotional release, but it feels like.

Yeah, I keep getting, like, the world tarot card in mind, like, being outside of it, being able to look at the whole and being able to feel like a home to the fullness of the experience without having to abandon any of it. It's all coming through in visuals right now. That's my best. My best shot in the moment at putting it into words.

Yeah, I'm like. Also, really, for me, it's. Yeah, there's some visuals, but it's like, a lot of, like, feel feeling.

And I. Yeah, I think, like, there, for me, there's, like, a light bulb moment feeling to clarity. That feels like what I call breakthrough. I get like. Yeah, I guess that's what I would call.

Maybe there's multiple parts of Breakthrough, but, like, as a light bulb moment happens, and I'm like. It's like I just, like, take the first deep breath I've taken for who knows how long the wave has lasted. And it's like water. It's like clear water.

And, yeah, it feels like, okay, that's what that puzzle piece connects to. And it's about this thing and it's about that thing.

And now I can look back through and there's, like, a thousand Easter eggs that I'm like, what the fuck? Like, that's what that had to do with that. This is why it's about this thing.

And it feels like all of a sudden the puzzle pieces now are making a picture and then I feel a high because I'm like, this shit is amazing. Like, this is the best thing in the world to figure it all out.

Like, this has been the thing that I've been wanting and waiting for and, like, trusting that it would come, but it wasn't here. And so now it's here, and I feel, like, validated that I'm, like, not fucking on that roller coaster anymore.

So, like, I'm high mostly because I'm, like, deliriously relieved that I'm not on that particular roller coaster anymore. And, in fact, boarding as I speak, another one, probably with the tribal wave. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Here we go again. And now I have so much energy to do that all over again for the rest of my life. But, yeah, I think, yeah, it feels very intellectual, honestly.

Like, it feels like. It's like, you know, my head has been getting involved for again. Say the. Say the wave has been weeks long.

Like, my head has been trying, trying, and then I'm like, no head. Body time. Feel, take a bath. Like, whatever. You know, like, trust the uncertainty.

Like, head just, like, didn't get to have anything that it wanted for weeks. And now finally. And usually, like, what comes before that? I really do think there is some sort. Like, it's.

I think this is, like, maybe not always true, but I think very often, like, the deepest breakthroughs I get to are because I've had some, like, intense externalization of emotion. And, like, sometimes it's just, like, vocalizing it.

Sometimes I'm talking through the energy and, like, moving energy through words of, like, talking usually to someone else. Both of you have experienced being on the other end of me doing that. But often it's like deep fucking grief, like, shaking, sobbing.

Like, recently it's been some screaming that was in there, too, it turns out, you know, or, like, panic attacks.

Like, often it's like I, like, actually have to have the panic attack that I've been staving off for weeks, and then I have it, and I'm like, oh, my God. And then. Yeah, so then it's like. Then I have this intellectual sense of, like, a seated.

Not like a open head, figure it out energy, but like, a seated, grounded. Like, this is that, like, I get to have this intellectual story that I, like, deeply want, and the story is true. Like, it.

It feels like truth, and it. Like, that feeling of like, I have all the parts now.

Like, I felt all the parts, but I could only feel each part at one time because that's the whole thing. Like, and now I, like, actually Feel all the parts and see how they fit. Yeah. Okay.

This is so. It's so fascinating because.

Yeah, it's really fascinating to hear and to feel into and have some sense and some context around, like, the arc and the story and the puzzle piecing and the meaning making and like, the tracking of it, because it feels so different from my experience. And I think, like, there is this part of me that is like. That is like, there should be tracking, right?

Or like, I should have a story or I should have meaning making here. And Kelsey, you and I have talked about this, right? And it. And that just, like, it doesn't happen. That that's not mechanically how it works for me.

And so I feel like I am always. I'm very often. And like, you know, the 6 and the 36, my personality, sun and earth, our solar plexus gates. Right. And so, like, I am. I often feel.

Yeah, I think, somewhat connected to that experience. Like, the experience of whatever of emotional alchemy or like Amalia. I'm relating to, like, to, like, the way that grief moves through.

And then there is. And recently it has also been moving through. Through, like, sobbing and weeping and shaking. Right? Of, like. Like lots of. Lots of.

Lots of kind of very, like. Yeah. Almost like, primal, like, thinking of, like, dogs, like, shaking. And. And then I can. I can.

I can have the actual, like, somatic experience, which. Which for me is a kind of lightness of it, like having almost moved through or alchemized or metabolized in a particular way. But there's not a.

It's not. The story is not there and the puzzle piecing isn't there for me and Kelsey, it's like I'm not going through and being like, oh, I see.

Because that was connected to this. And, like, this was an important part of how I arrived here in this moment. Like, I just feel less, like, a lot less connected to that.

And I think, like, yeah, part of my own stuff of. And especially, like, the.

And perhaps like, yes, my own conditioning, but also, like, you know, as a child of a therapist as well, like, so much of like. Right. And so maybe this is like back to like, kind of pathologizing or like.

Or, like, making story of it or understanding it through a particular paradigm or particular framework of like, yeah, so let's talk about the trajectory. Let's talk about the hero's journey there. And I'm just like, bruh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I'm not having that same experience.

And that there Is. And for me, of it's like.

Yeah.

There'S like, a lot of shame around that. Or like, a lot of like, yeah, something's wrong that I don't have that language. I don't have that particular articulation of the.

Of the puzzle piecing together.

Obviously, literally don't have access to that because it came from. At least a lot of it came from outside of you, right? That being like the arc, the story, the meaning. And it's not that it wasn't yours, right?

Because when you tap into emotional energy, it's hooking up to your system, right? It's getting filtered through your personality. Sun, earth. So it is yours, but there's no through line, right?

This is like, I almost want to, like, call Budway and Salima in the room to be like, budway, what was that metaphor? Because he'll have it better. But the metaphor that we were talking about was like, if the emotions.

I don't remember the exacts of the metaphor, but it was like a house party. And he was like, he can engage. He can go in a private room.

Sorry to be clear, by the way, my partner is a completely open solar plexus sacral authority generator. And we were having a conversation about the differences in our emotional process as a defined emotional being an open solar plexus person.

And he was saying, like, if we're at a party, he can close himself off in a private room and be selective about who gets to come in, which he's also caves environment. So that's happening versus like. And he could also leave at any time.

He could leave the party or he could go to a different room, but the party's at my house. And so I don't get, like, I don't get to leave the part like, the party doesn't end for me.

The party being perhaps the emotions, until everybody's gone. And I'm like, as the host, I have to hold it for everyone. So I guess the emotions are the guests at the party, right?

And I'm the host, so I'm stuck with the guests till they're done. But he's not the host, so he can kind of like engage here, engage there, but he can also leave. And we were. I was like, thinking about.

Cause I was like, okay, but everybody has through lines, right? Like Noah and Budway, they still have like, their emotional shit. That's for them to alchemize, right? So I was like, what's the difference, though?

And when you were talking about.

For you, and you were kind of talking about it from a splenic perspective or from the context of splenic authority of, like, it's just like you walk into another room and now it's like this. That's kind of how Budway described it too, is like, he doesn't have to host those guests. Like, I do.

Like, I'll be up with them all night till they're done. And he doesn't have. He doesn't have that responsibility.

But next time he meets them, somewhere out in the world, he has to pick that plot back up and that it's his sacral that guides him from room to room or event to event. Right. Versus it's your spleen that guides you. But for Amalia and I, per this metaphor, like, we just are the house. We just are the home.

We're the host. And so everywhere we go, the party is with us. We don't get to, like, take a break from the party, from the through line.

And so, yeah, kind of interesting. Like, I'm. Yeah, I'm so curious about this. Cause it's like, what is. Yeah, I'm just. Ugh, I'm just so curious.

I want to, like, put it into questions, but I'm like, I don't even know if that's the right question because I can't even imagine what that would be like to be able to kind of just like, drop it. Like, okay, this. This version of emotional alchemy, this, like, chapter of my emotional process, of my emotional work is just off for right now.

I'm gonna switch movies, go to a different one. Like, and they're not all, like, very clearly connected. And I don't even know what I'm saying because I'm like, this is so speculative. Yeah.

What's coming up?

Well, Amalia, you were.

I wanna add to this, like, question on question. I. This is like asking for a friend who has a partner who doesn't know what to find other places. And I am, like, so curious.

Like, that friend's partner has a lot of. Like, I don't feel my feelings.

Or, like, I have trouble feeling my feelings, which I hear from, like, every undefined solar plexus I've ever met, maybe besides for Noah, but you tell me if that lands for you. And, like, I'm. I'm like, very curious about this.

Like, there's, you know, obviously a lot of homogenized, especially in therapist world, speak around, like. Like, you know, kill your feelings and if not, figure out how. And that's because of XYZ reasons.

And so I think I Think my question is, like, it feels related to this, like, house guest party situation. And there's like, yeah. This question of, like. Yeah, like, how do you. I mean, I don't think it's quite how do you feel?

I mean, maybe, maybe it is actually how do you feel your feelings? And like, the underlying question behind that is, like, how do you move the grief you need to move. How do you move the stories you need to move?

Like, how do you process the emotions? I think you still need to process emotions. So maybe part A is, is that true?

And then part B is, if so, like, how do you process emotions when the guests aren't yours?

Yeah. I'm so curious about if there's a difference between like sacral and splenic beings in that.

Yeah.

Because. Yeah, I'm just thinking about. I'm just thinking about my ex who's a 1, 3 sacral MG, who like had that kind of what you were describing as budway.

Like she had this very like, okay, we're not going to do this now. Like, I'm going into another room and this, like, this real gift at gift. One could call it a gift. Compartmental, compartmentalizing.

And I was like, what is that like? Because I have no idea what that's like because I. I think for me, I don't have. Yeah, maybe I feel a little like. Like, maybe it's not my house.

It's not my house, but I'm like staying there. I'm like, like, my bag is there.

You know, Projector.

Yeah, projector stuff. Totally.

Right.

Whoever you're plugged into, you're in their life right now.

Yeah. Yeah. So I really. And I think that's why, you know, that always having this question of like, what's mine, what's not mine?

And then sometimes just like dropping that and. Yeah. And. And being with the actual emotional experience. And yeah.

To like, respond to your question, Amalia is like, I can feel the difference when there is. When there's a kind of like, you know, habitual pattern, rumination loop that is feeding a particular emotional experience.

And when it's like, oh, there is grief here that wants to be metabolized, move through, alchemized, so on. And then being with that and the kind of strategies are the ways that like we just talked about then having that move through.

And then, okay, now I'm like over here doing the other thing.

So it feels different from a sense of compartmentalization or a sense of like, like there, there isn't quite like partitioning off, but there is like a. Oh, this is here.

I can be with it in the ways, and I can, like, allow it to move through, and then it can move through, and then I can, like, almost, like, move on to the next thing that I'm doing, like, understanding that.

That the guests will, like, come and hang out with me again, you know, or, like, they'll come and request another song because I'm DJing the party that we're all at. So. Yeah, so it's there. There are more threads and.

Mm.

I'm thinking about, like, one of the. It's just so hard with the solar plexus because it's so core to my experience of reality that it's one of the hardest centers to, like, speculate on.

Wait, what is it like to not have that defined? Right. But I'm just thinking about, like, Amalia, for your friend with this partner that you're asking on behalf of. I'm just.

I'm thinking about, like, the.

One of the, like, kind of formulas for thought that I find myself returning to over and over as I'm in this, like, perpetual head scratcher of what you. The emotions, they're outside of you. What is. I just think about, like, my.

I try to ground into my experience of my openness and what it's like to kind of, like, land on someone's definition and how, like, it's not that. That's not me, it's just that that's part of my movie, that's part of my circumstance.

And so it changes, and it's not a part of my tether, but it's still just as much a part of, like, me and my reality. In fact, it's a really big part of my reality because I amplify it. Like, it's.

It's what I'm here to experience, you know, like, our quote, non emotionals are actually very emotional people because they're watching this amplified movie of experiential feeling and understand understanding in spirit, consciousness, everything that is the solar plexus. So, yeah, that's just. That's always where I always come back to that over and over because.

And I have to, like, constantly come back to it because, again, it's just, like, so confounding to me that half the planet has this different experience with emotions. Like, it's the movie. It's the movie. It's their movie. The emotions are their movie. Okay.

I. I have a thought, a question, a thought of whatever I am. Like, grief lives in other places. Like, grief doesn't just live in the Solar plexus maybe. Like, I'm thinking of, like.

Like, I'm just kind of stuck on this sense of, like, yeah, obviously. Let's just talk about my part.

Like, they're just in such a moment of, like, reckoning with their stories and, like, the grief that they need to move and. And, like, the stuff they need to process. And I'm just so. Like. I'm like, well, what. Like, it gets. So it gets complicated for me. Like, I get in.

I mean, I know that there's, like, a level to, like, trying to figure out mechanics, but then I get it on myself and I'm like, this is head stuff anyway. But I'm like, no, I really want to under. Like, mechanics are sacred to me. There really is something that is worth getting into this for me.

And I'm like, yeah, often it feels like they're moving their grief when they're in the presence of me. And so then I get into this moment of. I think what I'm getting at is I'm like, what if the grief is living in their definition?

And it's just like, grief actually can. Is that possible? Is that real? Does grief actually live in other forms and other definitions?

And there's, like, a particular way that the solar plexus energy can move and alchemize and metabolize, and, like, we do it as emotional beings in particular ways, and Noah does it as an undefined solar plexus in a particular way. But, like, that kind of energy can move the grief, but the grief doesn't need to live there. It's like, just because my.

Doesn't have that doesn't mean that they don't have their grief, that they have to move, but they move differently, right?

And then we, as the defined solar plexus is often we are the catalyst for the movement because we come in and we're like, there's a wave to wash it out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'm like. I'm very interested in exploring this from. Okay, what is the solar plexus? It's a engine and it's awareness.

And what is the relationship of emotional energy and emotional awareness to grief? And what that brings me to is, is what is grief? What's grief?

Because one of the questions that I had brought up, and I can't remember exactly why, but it was in my.

I had noted it in the text that I just glanced at at the top of this call was I had written, does emotional alchemy happen in other places in the body besides the solar plexus? And I had said that in response to something you shared in a voice note. Noah. I wish I could remember what.

But what I've been locating the last couple weeks as I track my own emotional alchemy process is that I feel a lot in my heart.

Yeah.

And it's like, this is not what I'm talking. This isn't the thing I'm talking about when I talk about my emotional authority. It's not the thing I talk about when I'm talking about clarity.

That's not. That's not a. The sense making, the clarity, the breakthrough, the understanding, the meaning making. Like, that's not in my heart.

That's somewhere different. But when I'm actually up against something that, like, needs my attention and needs to be metabolized and alchemized, I feel that in my heart.

Like, the place in my body where I register that there's something here for me is actually in my heart.

That'S so real.

Is that grief? What's grief, Noah?

What's.

Great. I'm looking. I was looking at Amalia for this one. What is grief? Yeah, I mean, what is. I don't. Yeah. Energy. Yeah. Like, right.

The. The word that keeps coming to mind for me is loss. Like, I know they're not the same thing, but what causes grief is loss. That's what I'm.

That's where my mind's going. I don't know if it's true.

Difference between grief and pain.

I think. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, it feels like psychic pain to me.

Grief does. Yeah. H. Grief to me feels more like sacred than pain, which perhaps was a semantics thing, but I think I have an association with pain that's, like.

It doesn't have to happen. We don't have. But maybe I'm mixing up pain and suffering, too. Are pain and suffering the same thing? No.

To me, no. But. Yeah, it's no help.

Oh. Yeah. I don't. I. I don't know if I can be of any help.

We both know that you can.

Thanks.

Yeah.

I. I appreciate this. Well, I guess. Well, you know, I guess I think about it from, like. Okay, two questions. It's like, pain and suffering, right.

Which are obviously, like, inevitable parts of this particular incarnation of, like, being in a human body. And I think about it from, like, a Buddhist standpoint of, like, different kinds of dukkha, like, dukkha being the Pali word for suffering.

And there is like. And suffering is also translated as, like, unsatisfactoriness. And there are other. The Buddha talked about, like, different levels of Dukkha.

And at this moment I'm gonna forget, but there's like, dukkha, and there's like, dukkha, Dukkha. And there's these different. These different types. And so perhaps there's, like, more. There's like the.

I mean, I think about pain in the sense of, like. Yeah, I'm just thinking about perhaps the unavoidableness to it. Right. So, like, stubbing my toe is pain.

And then, like, the suffering is like, why did I stub my toe? I'm a terrible walker. Like, I need to learn how to walk better. And like, this is all. Because so on and so forth.

Like, there's, like, almost like this. This. Like this second arrow of. Of. Of suffering around that, you know, and so. And then from. For me, I'm just in the.

In both the worlds of also the sacredness of grief. I feel that. I think for me, my particular experience of grief is it, like, it rests.

Like grief feels almost like the kind of, like the primordial energy or like the earliest. Right. It's like the grief of separation. It's like, what it comes down to often for me.

And so that's what I hear in the Sacredness is like, when I can cut through some of the other experiences, perhaps it shows up as anger or, you know, frustration or, like, bitterness or so on and so forth. Like, oftentimes it's like it's grief of separation. And so I. I feel that particular sacredness in grief.

I still don't really know what it is, but I also know what the somatic experience is. And for me, I actually feel it in my solar plexus often, which is interesting.

Yeah. I'm getting that grief is like the inverse of love. Because I also feel that Noah and I think about this a lot as the Virgo Pisces axis.

That Pisces is the part of us that's so aware of our connection to the whole. And that Virgo.

Is this the kind of discomfort that's sometimes associated with Virgo being mutable Earth, or at least I associate discomfort with Virgo is this constant itch that's like. I can feel that I'm currently separate. I can feel that in my incarnated experience, there's a separateness. And those, to me, are the same thing.

Virgo and Pisces are reflections of each other. Right.

So for me, that's the closest thing I have to my intellectual understanding of what grief is, is it's this, like, deeply loving awareness that we both are connected and are disconnected.

Yeah, because I was gonna say, like, when you first said inverse of love, I don't think I, like, necessarily understood what inverse actually meant. And, like, I feel like grief is, like, in some ways, the heart of love for me, and that is this grief work is magic.

And the immensity of magic I've experienced in this last season of my life being just deeply a grief machine. And where I've reached the depths, I've reached to. Into the heart of love with grief as that vessel. Like, it's astounding.

And, like, when I feel most connected to, like, my deep, deep, like, wide, loving self, I feel so much grief. Like, it's always tears. It's such connection and, like, in connection, in my, like, most expansive. Like, just.

It's like I'm, like, expansive isn't enough. How do I make it expansive? Like, exponential. Like, just, like, this feeling of, like, big, big, big, big love. Like, it's.

I feel so connected, and in that, I feel so connected to so much grief. And so it just does feel like I'm, like, this, like, love connection, grief. Like, I don't know what the difference is between them, actually.

Yeah, it's like two sides of the same coin. Amalia, I. I would love to hear more, or. I'm curious if you want to say more about grief as magic work.

I can try. I. I mean, it's, like, so somatic. It's so felt. I. I am like. Yeah, I guess I think it's, like, right, I just said love, grief, connection.

And, like, magic is the other is. Is in there too. Like. And, like, power, I actually think is maybe another word in there. And, like, I don't know what that.

There is this cauldron I'm in, I guess, but I. I like, in. And it feels connected to the emotional wave for me because, like, when I let the emotional wave be as. Like, when I, like, let myself.

And this, like, okay, lots of threads. But, like, you know, earlier in this conversation when I was like, I should meditate more, whatever.

Like, just, like, voicing that part of me that's like, I need to be more neutral about, like, how fucking big my emotions are. It's like, that's true because it's overwhelming.

Or, like, what's true, I mean, is, like, the part of me that's like, can we just, like, be, like, we just make this window, like, a little bit smaller for, like, some time? Because I'm so tired of being this dramatic. But, like, also when I let myself be in the drama of it, like, that's When I accessed my deepest magic.

And like I've really been in that recently of like, I just let myself go so fucking big, so deep, so hard in this like recent high holiday season, eclipse season, like huge nodal portal. And I was like, yes. And I grieved more than I've ever grieved in my whole life.

And I scraped these edges of things that I actually even popped through and was like, what that was on the other side. This is connected to the. What I'm still in this piecing together of it. And the magic that has started to unfold is like truly just. Yeah, it's really.

And like what I. I guess I like, should I put words to what I mean by magic? Like, there was like. Like in this like huge wash. It's like the grief is like washing, washing, washing, like, and not in a clean way.

Like in a dirty, like, let it drain, like, drain, like, drain all of. All of this residue.

And like residue that's mine, residue that's my ancestors residue that's like in the field, in this field that I've been like tangled in my field and like my community field, like just metabolizing so much of that and then.

And then within that, like marking all of this ritual with intention, like deep intention, intention that feels both mine and is like, like me connecting to this larger field of energy that I feel like I'm channeling and being like, what is here? What needs to move? What needs to manifest? What is the thing here?

Just this oscillation between opening, draining, moving, and then listening and then manifesting and tuning in and in that these are some words I'm trying to put to.

What do I mean when magic and like in that the magic, like the way the turnbacks, like now just like starting to like, notice some of the, like, I don't know if they're seeds. It's like noticing start of the. Some of the buds. Like, I'm like, oh my God, these buds. Like, these buds. Like. And yeah, I think.

I don't know if any of that was like remotely like, like understandable. But like, I think for me there's like, I let go.

So it's like even in the moments that I was like tuning in and then being like, here is the intention, here is the intention, here's the container I will create for this intention to move.

And then like letting the stuff move, there was still such a sense of being underwater, which felt really like akin to like, this is what it is to just surrender to like, like grief so much that like My mind is not. It's like, I'm not making like, I, it's. I'm not. I'm just in the grief. Like, I'm under what. I'm in the ocean. Like, I went in the water and I went in.

In the water for weeks and, and yeah, and I think like the, the like. Yeah, there's something about like surfacing and I think, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to tie this up. I don't.

I honestly, I'm like, I think it's time for me to stop speaking. I just, I can't tie it up. But the magic is there.

I'm having two trains of thoughts. If new trains of thoughts feel available. Yeah.

Like when you said grief work is magic for me, I was just like, yeah, that's what we're talking about today. You know, magic as an alchemy. Right. That's how it was coming up for me.

I also was thinking about your sarai sati, because you talk about it in the last episode, which I was listening to this morning. I was thinking about the way I've described that transit, which is.

That's the Vedic astrology term for Saturn on the moon and the seven years where Saturn's in the sign before your moon, then the sign of your moon, then the sign after. I was in my sati sati when I discovered astrology quite a while ago now.

I remember listening to Chris Brennan's podcast about it, early astrology days.

Not really speaking the language yet it, but being able to piece together like, okay, so when Saturn's in the sign before your moon, my moon's in saga. I think I'm in it.

So I was like in it and finding out in real time that I was going through what Vedic astrologers say is the hardest transit that exists. And Amalia is currently at the height right after the height of it, but kind of back at the height of it with the Saturn ingress back into Pisces.

And I was thinking about how. What Saturn. Oh, sorry, let me go back to how I started this sentence. I think I used to describe it when I was an astrologer.

I guess I'm not an astrologer anymore.

When I was an astrologer in this way where I saw clients one on one and talked about their transits and their charts, I would talk to people about the Sarasati by saying the moon is your emotional well being. The moon wants you to be emotionally well, it wants you to be emotionally comfortable. That's our lunar Prerogative is emotional comfort.

Comfort and stability. That's why the moon exalts in Taurus and falls in Scorpio, right? Because there is no emotional stability in Scorpio. That's not a thing anyways.

Saturn's a cock block. You know, Saturn's like, no, you can't have it, whatever it is he's transiting. I'm sorry, no, you can't have it until you find a way to get it.

That's the most real, the most honest, the most like of integrity. And so when you're going through the sati sati, you are getting cock blocked from a sense of emotional well being, which fucking sucks.

But it really requires you to get responsible and get honest and get like radical. Like get to the root of your emotional shit is like there's no placating it.

There's no superficial or even the next six steps underneath superficial placating your emotional experience. We will be dealing with it and we will be coming to terms, right? That's kind of Saturn's vibe. Let's come to terms.

Let's reckon he's the great reckoner. So that's part of what I was thinking about, is like, you're complete in this season that you keep talking about, Amalia.

You're completing your sati sati. Like it's Saturn dipping back into Pisces, the sign of your moon.

So you're like stepping back into the height of this seven year experience before Saturn comes back into Aries and you kind of enter back into the rounding it out era. And I'm thinking about like, yeah, just like, you know, this is a cliche, but there's truth in all the cliches.

Somewhere your local fifth line would like to remind you there's truth in all the cliches. The cliche of like, you know, I can't remember the actual words for it. What's the cliche I'm talking about?

That's like, you're like, you love is the same size as grief. That's not it. Like the like, like the highs equal the low. You know what I'm talking about.

There's a cliche about that where like the more grief you felt, the more love you have capacity for something. Because it's like that thing that Noah and I were naming too of like the grief is sacred. It's like this is feeling very gate 55.

And the concept of passenger consciousness is the new way as well. That's like once you. Okay, yeah, that's another thought I was having while you were speaking, Amalia. It's like there's a muscle memory to grief work.

There's a muscle memory to emotional alchemy. And I feel like, because I went through my sati. Sati. Because I.

Whatever, all the reasons, my mind can, like, make sense of it and see it moved to my Pluto line, where I've been just, like, doing intense shadow work for five years. Like, it's my full time job. I feel like I can register a grief when it comes now, when I feel that thing in my heart I was talking about.

And there's like a capacity that I have now to be able to be like, okay, we're here. Let me exhale into it. Let me start the motions. Let me accept what's here. Let me move through.

And it's not like not moving through the motions in a superficial way. Like, I know how to do this. I know how to be with this. And it's like.

Like, because I'm spending less energy and less time trying to resist the undesirable feelings, I actually am able to experience the grief and the love, like, more and more simultaneously. Yeah. I'm also gonna not try to punctuate.

That's a lot of the stuff I was finding myself circling around in the last few minutes, like the muscle memory of the alchemy.

I have a question for you, Kelsey, but I want to give Noah some space. But I'm just pinning that for myself.

I'm just really appreciating hearing. Yeah. Both your reflections and is it like. Yeah, I'm thinking about. Is the cliche, Kelsey, like, the depth of the grief is the depth of love. That.

That kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. This feels very. Yeah, it's like, hard to talk about without it being very, like, mind binary.

But I think that as I have been curious about what a season of play is, like, I have been kind of playing with, like, what is. Or what is the. What is the experience of like, like, integrated play or like a sense of like. Like the depth of like. Like a.

Almost like this fortified being that is, like, playing. And Amalia, maybe you and I spoke a little bit about this, but, like, this being that is playing from.

From the space of, like, having swam around in the muck and come out, you know, and like. And. And it's like, now I'm like, had this necklace full of jewels because I want to adorn myself because this is hard work.

And I'm like, playing around with my, like my. My. My jewel of my. My necklace of jewels that I have, like, yeah, that, that through the traversing and through the alchemy. And like there is a.

There is a felt experience of that.

And I think there's something that I'm perhaps attuning to because I'm perhaps always attuning to the other, but something in the attuning to the other where I can feel their alchemical work. I can feel their particular metabolizing of, of grief. And then we can like play almost with this secret, like we're in the sandbox.

But we like kind of have this like little like, like secret because we've like, we've like swam in the depths already. And, and there's something that. The truth of that. It's like, it's like the.

Where it's now for me it feels just like not only non negotiable but it's just like I can feel that truth in my body as I am interacting and I'm being with the other. And there's a longing and maybe this is like all my whatever Scorpio south node, but there is also the longing for.

There's a familiarity in that, but also this longing of like, yeah, this is how I want to be and this is like these, this is the, this is the level at which I want to play with another. And that experience of love from being cracked open and swimming and in, in. In. In the ritual is, Is unlike anything I have ever experienced. You know.

Is it like, like thinking about this description you just gave of a particular form of play or like a particular circumstance of play? Maybe like I was wondering, like, is it like it feels safer to play in those circumstances?

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's like I can feel you. It's like I can feel you, you know, and so I can.

And that's not to say like I know you or I know what you've been through, but there is a feeling of like, oh, I can feel you. And, and then I can trust.

And I think perhaps it's partly because like, like I can trust your, Your honesty because I can feel you have been like deeply honest with yourself and there is an intimacy with, with. With the, with your own kind of emotional experience.

And maybe a lot of this is projection, but this also is like a feeling that I have, you know, and so like it, it. I think it makes space for my particular.

Maybe like I'm too much or my hyper vigilant like tendencies or people pleasing things to kind of just like fall away and say, oh, I actually don't need to do that work. So I Can just relax into. Into my truth, and I can relax into that. And then there is a. And then we can kind of play together.

The thing that it brings up for me is all my parts can be here, and therefore I can play. All my parts can play here, as opposed to. I have to be this kind of thing, and those parts have to be quiet for me to be able to play.

This thing that we're naming here is a direct correlation to the concept of shame and repression. Right. Like, the sensation that I keep talking about in my heart, I'm like, that. To me, I've been trying to.

I started trying to map out emotional alchemy on my notepad. It's not right. What I have, but what I have as a potential first step is like, a grief alert. Like, there's an alert. Like, oh, there's a grief here.

And my heart starts to show me that. And then I think, like, it's possible to go from alert to, like, full surfacing. Like, okay, what's here for me? Grief as the next step.

But for most people, and I think still to an extent, I don't know if this is true for me. I don't know if I.

For oftentimes and for many people, before we get to the full surfacing, there's, like, a quite a bit of time of trying to, like, temperature that grief and, like, maybe repress that grief. Because we don't want to look at it. Because when we're very locked into binary, we see grief, bad grief, bad grief, bad. Keep it away.

I don't want to have a bad feeling. If I have a bad feeling, that means I did something wrong. I don't want to admit that I did something wrong.

So this is all, like, intricately wound up also in. Yeah, like, shame, work and ego death. Death, right.

Because when you're practiced in ego death, there's no reason to do anything but go, oh, hi, grief. What's here?

Because we're not obsessed over what does this mean about me, you know, like, yeah, my ego has value judgments that it places on, like, grief, but I don't like the wholeness of me that I arrived to over and over again. I don't have any issues with it, you know, so now I have this, like, the muscle memory of, okay, there's something here, there's something here.

And, like, this thing of, like, I can bring all my parts to you, or I can feel your depth, I can feel your truth. As you've both articulated, it's like.

Like our ability to energetically discern the extent to which a person in any given moment is rejecting parts of themselves and repressing their own shit. And I'll tell you, as somebody who's had no choice in this life but to become extremely. Oh, what word do I want to use here? What's the adjective?

Like aware of the dynamics of the projection field. If somebody's repressing their own shit and rejecting parts of themselves, there's literally zero way around them doing that to you.

That will be inevitable. That will happen. That is happening. Which perhaps brings me to. I still don't know what like the map is.

And I'm kind of interested still if we in like tracing that if we want to. But we can feel each other's grief work. We can feel each other's alchemy.

And Noah, I was so moved by the phrase you brought into a voice note recently that I think you said, one of your teachers says thank you for your alchemy. Or someone said that. What's the context around that? Do you remember saying it?

No, I don't remember saying it. Were we talking about metabolizing?

Probably you, like quoted someone. You said a teacher or someone that led a meditation or an experience or something used the words thank you for your alchemy.

That's right. Okay. Right. It was on. Thank you. Thank you for drawing it out of the ocean. It was someone who I was on three month retreat with.

I was saying there was a note on a board. Yeah, a note on the board. Yeah. So there was like this board of. In case anyone, Amalia will maybe appreciate the context.

Sorry, no, there was on the retreat there. This is actually so tangential, but it's fine. On three month retreat at this Inside Meditation Society in Barry, Massachusetts, we.

There was a board where you could donate for each meal, breakfast, lunch and dinner. And you know, upon donation you could like write a little note. And so like, that was kind of the way that.

Or that was like one way to offer to people's practice to the center. And it was, you know, in the. In Pali and Buddhist was called Dana. And so it's like one way of offering Donna or generosity.

And one person who donated for. Who offered Donna for breakfast or lunch or one of the meals wrote, yeah, thank you for your alchemy.

And I had never thought about the practice of meditation, which he has not disconnected from grief work, which is not disconnected from magic as alchemy. And that something about that.

And I'm sitting there inside, I have no one to talk to about except for the ancestors and the Trees and my guides and the angels. So I guess it's a lot of people beings. But, yeah, there was something that was so profound about that. So thank you for your alchemy.

Me?

Yeah, I was just so moved by that.

And that kind of follows in a conversation we've also been having about grid work and how this is maybe another episode, but this idea that we can feel like we're taking up space or not taking up enough space, but whenever something's alchemizing in an individual being, regardless of how that looks in terms of, like, relational, energetic, exchange, that's grid work. Right.

I'm here to own that as an Aries, like, me owning my shit right now, right here, whatever's in my heart, being with that, that's the most generous thing I can do, or at least that's a framing that I can and will offer myself and others. So I just love this phrase, thank you for your alchemy.

And I think, yeah, I'm just wanting to, like, underline according to codependent expectations around, like, how we're supposed to show up for each other and homogenized ideas about what care looks like. Focusing on your own shit and alchemizing it often does not look like that.

But we're all naming this thing today of, like, I can feel when you've alchemized or not and when you haven't. And therefore your capacity to be with the parts of me is minimal.

That is suffocating, that does not feel free, that does not feel spacious, that does not feel like love. So thank you for your alchemy.

I feel like I want to.

To add to that, even on, like, a more granular level, like, even within, like, something I've been thinking about so much in this past season for me is dosage. And this is, like, born out of, like, a medicine ceremony that I was in, but then it continued to show itself.

And I think there's this way where, like, I've been trying to work with even within my own self, like, the grid of my own system, between all of the different beings and different parts and different systems happening in my own system. I can't alchemize it all at once, and it's not my job to.

And so there's even a thank you for your alchemy happening from one part to the other within my own body of dosage. I don't need to alchemize. We don't all need to alchemize at the same time. We can't.

And the timeline of me doesn't all need to alchemize at the same time. I hold so many timelines and I'm doing so much work for all of those.

And so, like, even inside of myself, this sense of, like, different parts of me, different doses, like, thank you for metabolizing at the rate and pace and moment that is right for you to alchemize.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm just thinking about, like the delusion, one of the many delusions of modernity that it's like just us doing this.

It's just me isolated individual self without any connection to the unseen realms or the ancestral realms and so on, that it's like I'm here doing this work, and so I'm appreciating and thinking about, like, the wideness of those different parts. Amalia. And like, that, like, yeah, how could it just be up? Like, how could it just be us doing this as, you know, as individual selves?

And so, like, that also means that, like, we have allies. Right. I don't know where we are excited about going, but I do have a question about.

At some point in this conversation, we brought in this kind of, like. I think it was Amalia spoke about this kind of like homogenized, like, feel your feelings kind of therapy speak vibe. And yeah, I guess I'm like.

I'm curious about differentiated feeling your feelings as.

Yes, yes.

You also had another question. Amalia, Is that still present?

So glad I was like, okay, is it over? Do I have to ask you? I'm so. Thank you. We're back. Because I still have it. Okay, thank you. Okay. The. My question, which I think is. I. I think is.

It's for Kelsey, but I think it like touches on this question you're asking.

Noah is like, Kelsey, I've heard you talk about your kind of what you said at that moment, whatever some moment where you were talking about, I think your process. And you notice when the grief. You're like, okay, it's time to make room for this and stop resisting it.

And I'm curious what part of this is just a nosy curiosity about you because I've never witnessed, like, you be in like. Like you. Like, I've. I've kind of exclusively witnessed. I think you be in what to me appears projection and all as like, somewhat like. Like clear.

Like clear or like it's like a neutral about your emotionality or something. Yeah, like, I'm like. I know what I feel like when I'm like in the pits of my grief. Like, I'm like, Sobbing and shaking.

And it's not that I. I'm natural or something, but I'm like, do you. Is that what it looks like for you, or is it different for you?

Like, what I'm trying to say is, since I haven't witnessed that, I actually don't know what it's like for you.

Do you feel like you've never witnessed it? Noah? I'm just curious. I'm this, like, fifth. Fifth line gathering right now. Because I haven't. I have an answer, but I'm also just curious.

I feel like I have not witnessed it. Um, but I have. There was a crack. At one point, there was like, a crack and a little window, and I, like, yeah, peeked in and was like, oh. And.

Yeah, okay. If I think about, like, there's so many threads here, but if I think about. If I try to.

Where my mind goes is like, when's the last time you were having an emotional breakdown? Go there. Describe it. Like, what. What did it look like? What was happening? Two things.

One, the, like, obvious, the, like, straightforward answer is in the last five years, since I moved here, moved away from all of my community, that's only happened with Budway. Like, that's the person that's held that for me. But I will also say, I mean, this feels maybe connected to.

This feels like a vulnerable thing to share. Cause I'm still working it out, and I like to share things once I've worked things out, per both of your observations.

But this is part of what collaboratory is for me, as you've both also heard me articulate, is like, wanting to blur the lines between what our roles are with each other and wanting to feel like I can fall apart with you. Um, but, yeah, so I. This is the muscle memory thing a little bit. Okay.

The curiosity I've been having that I'm wondering if it's connected is like, I cry a lot less than I used to. I used to cry every day almost. And I used. I remember, like, I remember having the feeling like I would cry.

I used to be a high school music teacher, and I remember I would get, like, so worked up by whatever we're talking about in our fucking fine arts team meetings that it was, like, a regular occurrence for me to, like, cry in them. And I remember having to be. Tell people, like, it's okay. I just cry. I just cry a lot. It's fine.

Like, always having to make sure people know, like, I'm okay. I just cry. It's just part of my process. And I say that because that's not my truth right now. I don't cry very much.

And sometimes I feel like, man, I wish I was crying, because the release of it is really helpful. But I wonder. So I've. I've, like, wondered a little bit lately, like, is this a. Do I need to look at this? Like, why don't I cry anymore?

Am I becoming a sociopath? Like, what is happening over here? But I think what feels true to me, and I'm like, I'm close to crying right now.

Like, the thing that happened on the Call Wednesday is happening again, where it's like, I can kind of feel that feeling of swelling.

But I think this is the muscle memory thing where I think I'm just like in a season of my life, which who knows if it will be stagnant in any way, But I have just done so much excavation and so much heavy lifting that when the grief comes up, it's like, I don't actually have to go that deep into it right now because I'm in, like, a long term, like, integration phase. I think that I'm like, I feel it. Like, I almost feel like I just, in this moment, had a whole alchemy cycle.

Cause I, like, felt it and I was like, it's here. And then I felt the exhale of it. And I don't need much to happen right now. But that being said, hold on, Let me say, clarify what I meant by that.

I don't need to shake a ton. I don't need to cry a ton. I do need to move energy out of my throat. I do need to talk, and I often need to be witnessed.

And a lot of times my.

My stuff that comes up does feel like in my mind, it feels like I feel like someone's not valuing me or I feel like I'm not a part of a whole and I should be right. I feel like somehow unrecognized, unwitnessed, unvalued, and I just need to let myself feel that. And that. That often feels like anger.

And then I need to move through it. And I find like, there was a period of time for me where I was really stuck in the binary where I.

The reason I would repress the feeling and the sensation was less because I didn't want to acknowledge it in myself. Yeah, no, that's not true. I didn't want to acknowledge it in myself because I was, I was conflating it with, with like a value thing.

Like I would if I were mad at someone and I had a story of they don't recognize me or some, something's off here in the reciprocity of this relationship. I wouldn't want to admit that I felt that way because I thought in me acknowledging that, that I was like saying they were bad or something.

So I would repress my own feeling of anger and resentment because I thought that I wasn't being like loving or accepting. Right. And I think it's funny, I think this problem, I don't want to over universalize.

But once you get to a certain point in your self awareness journey, like those of us who are maybe, I don't know, neurodivergent, obsessed with these languages and ways of understanding ourselves, it's like the repression almost happens less because we don't want to look at our own shit and more because we don't want to like call other people's shit out.

Like we're almost like holding ourselves to too high a standard that we're like, we know about the thing that can happen where we alchemize and neutralize. So we're like, I shouldn't be feeling this way. And that's where the repression starts to come from.

So I went through like a years long stuck point where I was like, I knew that I could get to this all encompassing loving place. And so if I wasn't there, I was mad at myself because I thought I was doing something wrong.

And that was just acting as this like, damn to me being able to actually feel the heartache that I was feeling. Um, so nowadays it's really just like I just need, usually just need to like tell someone that I'm feeling this way.

And I still have these disclaimers that I'm like, they're not doing anything wrong. I know nothing's wrong here. But like I still say that up top. Um, but I, yeah, it's just like faster. So I don't even cry that much right now.

And it's like crazy for me to say because it's unrecognizable from a version of me that I knew for most of my life. But it does look often like it feels like something's stewing and it's brewing and it's like, been here for a little while.

It's not gone away in sometimes it's like not gone away for a few days. So I need to say it, but I'm laughing at myself as I say that because I think this is like a fire moon in the first house thing.

It's more like it's been here for a whole two hours. So it's time to say, like, I'm impatient, I'm done. So I'm just gonna say it. And so.

But for me, yeah, a lot of times, like, all I really need is to own it for myself. Like, this is here. This is here. I'm feeling it. I know it's not a good bad. I know I'm not right or wrong. I know they're not right or wrong.

But this thing is here. I need to acknowledge it for myself and I need to be witnessed in it.

And I need to, like, let the energy get out of my body, through my throat, around it, it. And then there's some immediate release from there. And maybe this is like overanalyzing it. Cause I don't actually know what's happening.

But maybe as my muscle memory has grown with that and the time it takes me to get to that, like, let's just let it. Let's give it air thing.

Like, the I've alchemized so much shame that I'm not repressing it very much that I wonder if there's just like, less that needs to be released when I get to the point. And so it's not dramatic. But I don't know, you know, I don't fucking know. I don't know. I can only compare it to, like, myself in other times.

And yeah, I just feel like it doesn't take as much for me to have that moment of alchemy anymore. Cause I just have been in a season and on an astrological line where that's just been the whole thing. Like, oh, this is. Sorry.

One more thing I wanted to say too is like, in moving here to the desert and really removing myself from a lot of contexts and a lot of relationships and then being. This is like second line body deconditioning stuff. Like being extremely selective about who I engage with.

I also just have less contexts that are requiring the alchemy. Right. I had a client, a fellow fifth line, who we were having these like, crazy calls where we would. It was like.

Like, you know how sometimes if you don't put the camera on in a session, you just kind of like go to a different Place faster. Like, there's something about it. We were going to these crazy places, and we were just, like, connecting in such an intense way.

And we were talking about fifth line stuff, and I remember saying something like, but, you know, if you and I were meeting in a different context, like, In a more 3D context, like, we would probably be stumbling a little bit more with each other in the projection field.

Like, we were naming that there was something really sweet about our connection, that it felt like we were, like, able to be both in and outside of the projection field together. And I noted that would probably not be the case if we were roommates, you know, or neighbors or co workers or whatever.

And she used the phrase, yeah, if we suffered the burden of context together, and that phrase is always in my head, I think it would be a very good greeting card. I love suffering the burden of context with you.

And I think, like, for me, again, collaboratory as exposure therapy is me being like, I want to suffer the burden of context with you. I want to get in the sandbox, as Noah would say, and, like, play.

But because, just as Noah has articulated, like, because you all have done and are doing alchemy, I feel like I can get in the sandbox with you. And so it's like rehab for the burden of contexting.

And I think I'm just wanting to point that out to say I am, in some ways giving myself a little bit of a pat on the shoulder and being like, I've done a lot of alchemy. I don't have to have huge breakdowns anymore. But some of it is also privilege. Like, I haven't had. I haven't had to suffer a lot of burden of context.

I've been living a very selective hermit life where I've only stepped out and made myself available for relational mess in these very few discerning ways. Which might not be like, I'm on the roof. You know, we all go on the roof.

It's just not as profound of a life arc for those of us that aren't six lines. But I'm like, pretty on the roof now. And if something comes up that's very challenging for me, that's gonna require alchemy.

It's either coming up with someone who's been let in on this level with me, which means they're fucking handling their shit, because I'm very discerning about this at this point in my life, or it's coming up from someone that, like, if once I get myself through the initial activation around it, I'll Be able to arrive to a place that's like, I'm don't. I don't actually owe you anything. And there's like a wall. And so, yeah, it doesn't look like much.

It looks like sometimes crying, but mostly just yelling real quick and just acknowledging that I've been feeling a thing for a bit. I have, like, one other thing I kind of want to say about this. I'm feeling self conscious.

One thing I've been noticing in just the last few weeks and just kind of tracking is like, if I feel myself feeling in kind of a funk, and not a funk, like an emotional low, a different thing that's like, oh, I'm, like, upset, like, unsettled. Because emotional low feels different to me than unsettled. If I find.

If I know, like, register, like, oh, something feels unsettled right now, and I can't trace it back to what I'm really noticing. That. And I, like, will spend some time being like. Like, at what point in my day did that unsettled feeling show up?

And I'm just like, watching that because I'm realizing, for one, how rare that actually is for me.

Cause I think I'm at a point where I'm just like, I don't know what it is, but I'm at a point where if I feel unsettled about something, nine times out of 10, I know exactly where that started. And I can, like, trace it back to that moment I keep describing in my heart where something got a little triggered.

And if I can't, I'm surprised by it. And I'm like, whoa, what did I miss? I missed something.

What was the thing that, like, took me away from my peace for a second or that made me feel kind of tangled up? And it feels so alarming to me to not know. I think because I'm in such a, like, season of, like, when it comes, we're with it.

We don't let it snowball. We're with it. We hold it. We detangle. We don't tangle. That. When I notice if even just for an afternoon, I'm like, wait a minute, something's off.

And I don't know, I got here. It actually feels very like, whoa. And just like, noticing that for myself.

But it also makes me think about how many people are just moving through the world with all these knots and tangles, with very, very little sense of where the knot began. And again, I will explain to you that even though my intonation did not suggest so, that was the end of that. Of Whatever that was.

Verbal grammar.

What did she say?

Verbal grammar.

Verbal grammar. Yeah. Yeah, that, like, grief alone alert. That's, like, in the heart. The heart space grief alert. That, to me, is like, step one.

The rest of the circle, I haven't quite figured out, but there is, like, a. I can only help but think about it as a lunar cycle.

You know, there is like, a full moon moment where it's really embraced and witnessed and accepted, and then there's some kind of integration after that. But, yeah, my process looks like.

Like there's something, and then it stays enough that I need to name it, and then I typically ask someone to hold it for me, and it's usually budway. But you guys have witnessed. You. You guys have been that, like, collaboratory has been that for me a lot in this season as well.

But that's why it was interesting for me to hear you say, I don't feel like I've seen you there, because I actually feel like you have.

Well, I think I. Like, once you started talking about it, I was like, okay, that's what I thought. But I was like, is there a part that I'm missing?

Cause I haven't seen the part that looks my thing. And I think you confirmed that. It sounds like right now there's not a whole.

No, but there's still an abundance of pathology, because I'm still like, as I. As I said everything that I said to you guys, I'm like, I think this is true. Like, this feels true, but I'm still like, am I broken? Am I in denial?

Because I'm not having that. That, like, big thing. So I am pathologizing myself this week.

Yeah, welcome, welcome. Pathologizing. Hi. I just want to say I think a lot of what I was thinking, I just kept thinking dosage while you were talking.

And I'm not saying that's what is happening. I'm not trying to add that to pathology, But I think for me, I was thinking of flower essences.

I was like, what it sounds like to me as you were saying was you're describing the season that you're in where you're. You are going through the cycles, but it's a flower essence drop of the cycle.

And, like, it sounds like is really different than me being like, I'll just take a dose of the fucking ocean every three weeks, you know, or whatever. Sometimes every day. Like, it sounds like, yeah, there's this, like, yeah.

And I'm so like, yeah, I'm curious if that lands for you, but that's what it like that's what it's feeling like to me.

And, and if that's true, then I was like, I'm like, yeah, I'm curious if that is like, that's you now or like, that's you in this season and it shifts or, you know, Know.

Yeah. That lands for me. And it makes me think about like, cycles and cycles and cycles and cycles. Right.

So, like, I'm kind of describing these very micro cycles of like, ooh, something came up in my heart. Ooh, I gotta work it out.

But on a really large cycle, like, on like a decades long cycle, I'm still in extreme integration from some very big excavation that was happening like five to ten years ago. Like, I'm integrating. Yeah. On the big map, there were a lot of breakdowns some years ago.

There was a lot of crying, yelling, shaking, like loss of self, heartache. And I'm integrating all of that still. Yeah.

I also think about the tightness, what I experience as like the contracted nature of time, the tightness of time when one is really in it. In this current season of me being kind of deep in that shaking, sobbing, fetal positioning ness. I'm like, I don't know if I can survive this.

I can't see anything outside of it. I can't remember when. And the experience of spaciousness, you know, I can't remember, you know, playing in the sandbox.

And so, yeah, I'm appreciating the. I'm appreciating that, that wide, that like that wider spiral orientation that I can feel into because it, I think it helps remind me that, yeah.

That there, there, there, there will be like, integration is also already happening at this at the same time. And there is a season perhaps where I'm not waking up crying every day, you know, And. Yeah.

And that doesn't mean that I'm not feeling my feelings or that doesn't mean that, like, grief isn't moving through, through, you know.

Is there space for a quick look at differentiated feeling, our feelings?

Yes.

I feel like, let's look.

I'm.

We'll be done at some point, but like, we gotta go there.

I loved feeling your sacral response. I was like, my body's like, cool.

You got it.

Yeah. Can I just also throw out there? I just had to do a little data analysis real quick. When we're talking about these really big cycles, I can't help.

Amalia knows this about me. I can't help but look at secondary lunar progressions. Yeah. Okay.

So you are finishing up a third quarter phase I think I just glanced at yours really quickly. I'll look again in a sec. But Noah's in a balsamic phase by progression it looks like, let me see, from 12, so 16 plus 4. So Noah's. No, I'm sorry.

16 plus 26. Yeah. So early balsamic phase. So balsamic is like, like dark moon. So there's probably still a crescent a little bit for you.

So this is like a 28 year cycle. And the quick way I describe it is like the progressed new moon to full moon is like a 14 year inhale.

And then from the full moon back to the dark moon, new moon is a 14 year exhale. So you're in like the last. I'm trying to estimate just from visually looking at it, probably like 4ish years of the 14 year exhale tale.

And I think I'm just like a little bit past that. I'm getting actually my. Whoa, holy shit. My new moon is next year. So I'm getting really close. 20, 26, I'm at the very end of it.

And that dark moon period is like distillation. Everything that just happened is just getting distilled. And there's not as much energy for suffering the burden of context.

When there's a lot of light in the lunar phase, we're out there. Those are the moments of like, yeah, breakthrough maybe in a way.

And then Amalia, you're like just behind there and I'm just talking about this one cycle. Right. But like you're. We're all like at the end of the exhale. But when you hit the 90 degree part, the third quarter phase, that feels like a crisis.

That's where the dark equals the light. And it's like there's this crisis because the light is like, oh, I'm out. And it starts to really fight with it. And it's a square aspect.

So there's just like a lot of like 10 and agitation and it feels a lot more. So we're all coming down from that on a 28 year cycle.

And I'm often just imagining there will be a time when I want to suffer the burden of context again. But it's about 10 to 14 years away. Perhaps just another way of looking at it is we're all kind of on this exhale integration mode.

And I do wonder if being in the real dark dark of the dark moon phase by progression is has some of these like. It's an alternative way for me to not pathologize the like. Yeah. The neutrality that I am Generally feeling.

It's just like I don't need to go out there. I don't need to do all that I'm distilling right now. Sorry for that side quest. That was longer than I meant for it to be. Feeling your feelings.

I'm curious if that is my.

Yeah, I'm about to look again. Yours by progression is. Yeah. So your progressed sun is at 19 Pisces. Your progressed moon is at 27 Taurus.

So yeah, you're in the third quarter favorite phase.

Okay, cool.

You're getting closer, very close to Balsamiq. But you're technically still in the third quarter phase. Yeah. So you're still working out the like big crisis of this 28 year cycle.

You're still in this like wrestling match with it. Yeah. Big thumbs up, let's go. Yeah. Like the light is still fighting the death a little bit is another way of putting it. You're almost surrendered.

The death has won. But the light is still there enough to be like. But there's one conceptualization of it.

We can always be more dead is what I'm hearing. Bring it on, death. I love you. I love you.

I think that.

Noah, I would love to hear what you have to say on this potentially final topic with the feeling you're feeling stuff because I think, think it's probably the undefined solar plexuses that are a little more conditioned by that homogenization. And I'm also curious, is it your mom that is or was a therapist and is she emotionally defined?

No, she's a sacral generator.

Okay. These are just important facts for the Jupiter in Gemini and Jupiter in Virgo. Brains in the room. Yeah.

Yeah. My dad is an emotional projector and my sister is an emotional mg.

Do.

You want a specific question? Because I maybe have one, but I don't need to give it to you unless it'd be helpful feeling your feelings.

I would be curious what is coming through as a question and then I'm curious to hear.

Is there any, like, maybe it's first a yes or no question and then if the answer is yes, to be to like share a little more specifically about how.

But has your human design experiment and like understanding, learning and observing what it is to be undefined in the solar plexus and specifically what it is to have splenic authority.

Do you feel like that has liberated you in any ways from the grasp that maybe some of that homogenized feel your feelings stuff conditioning had on you?

Yeah, I think that there has been some, some, some liberation. I think like this, this question around, particularly around like when I'm sensing into the. The homogenization of like. Of like. And. And as.

As also as you're articulating of like you being in your. In the particular season of grief and like what moving through grief looks like where I am. Yeah, that I'm. I'm. There is still this.

There is still like such deep conditioning around. Around feeling. Feeling my feelings. Looks like, okay, this is helpful.

That feeling my feelings looks like a like particular emotional or somatic response.

And I think what is clarifying perhaps in this moment and perhaps in this conversation around like the differentiated feeling or feelings, a splenic being and.

Or for this splenic being and someone with emotional definition is the conditioning on the linearity and the meaning making like the linearity of the story and the reason that something is presenting itself as an emotional response. The grief is presenting itself. And there is data in the grief, but that data is not always presented in that.

In a linear storytelling puzzle piece making way. And I think like, that has just allowed me to relax around the experience.

And like when I'm in resistance to it, it is because of the discomfort, right. Of like, I don't want it. Like, grief is hard. You know, it's like I don't want to feel the feelings, but I can. I think I can feel them in a.

In a very relaxed way that is not my mind storying anything. And I can just trust that. I can trust in the, the.

The alchemy of that, of that particular experience that that will like be revealed or maybe not be revealed, but it feels like it will be integrated or revealed in a way that I'll kind of like come to find out a little bit. And so like the, the like, yeah, the, like the, like tracking and the. And.

And the meaning, again, it's like it is a relaxing around the conditioning that I need to. Or that there should be meaning here or that I need to make meaning out of it.

And I think of that, that, that really feels like like, yeah, part of that conditioning is like really deep. And my mom will. Will probably listen to this. Hi mom. I love you.

Thank you. For Noah.

Thanks for Noah. And. But there is like, you know, a lot of that of like, okay, the feelings are here. Let's name the feelings, like what's happening for you.

And this immediate dig into exactly what is going on and the story, like the dig as like the writing of the script of it. And so, yeah, I think it has been really helpful. Yeah.

Again, I think I'm like circling around this and perhaps saying this in many different ways so I can like, help register in my own system. But it's like the grief is here. I can be with it. It can move through.

And it like, doesn't have to register in a particular, like, linear story to meaning for me. And I can trust that it is part of that. It is like part of my experience and that there is information there for me.

But the information may be presented in a different way or the information may come. It may just like unlock something or it may, you know, there may be like I'm seeing.

Just like it may lead to me waking up this morning feeling very spacious. You know.

I'm thinking about the solar plexus as a motor again, right? And like, for those of us who have it defined, it's like energy is always moving. It needs to always be moving. If it's not, not right.

Like if it's stuck in a place, that's what it's like for us to repress. It's stuck. We need to keep it moving, let it move. And I'm thinking about. We were talking about this a little bit earlier.

I was saying, like, I experience. I'll just be specific to try to be more concise that with Budway, who's open solar plexus.

And because he doesn't have that engine that moving emotional energy in his own system, it's a thing that his body literally relies on external conditioning to help move it through. But something that I've had to observe as.

As the conditioning for force that helps move a process along in his body is that he doesn't need to then like tether. He doesn't have that Easter egg moment that Amalia and I have. And I used to project. I think that if it lacked that, that it.

The energy didn't actually move. But for him, it's like he used to resist. Nowadays he's a lot better at just like, it's here.

And I'm probably better at holding it for him in the way that he needs, which is really difficult, different from what I need when I need someone to help me move emotional energy. Like, I need the witnessing. He. And maybe you. This is like a question, a hypothesis.

Maybe you also need the witnessing, but you also literally need the motor access. Be like, let's get this water moving through the system.

And so I think like, yeah, when he's not what I track nowadays, when, you know, we're not perfectly well oiled machines, but like, the mechanics between us are a lot lot. Like we're a better oiled machine than we once were when it comes to conditioning each other.

And I see it a lot as, like I am around, something gets stirred, he like processes something. Something moves and then he's like, pretty fine. Like he can just like move right on. And I used to be like, I used to not believe that.

Like, I used to think there needed to be more because there always is more.

And like, even when him and I have interpersonal stuff, like when conflict arises is he'll be fine so much faster than me because once the thing moved and got out of the way, his anchor is his sacral right. It's just like it's ready to respond to something else.

Natai I'm like, okay, now it will be two hours to three days before this wave has completed its splash upon the shore. And so I used to project that, right, like, and I would say, you're not feeling it, you're still repressing it.

And there was a part of me that probably was acutely attuned to that. There was repression and there was resistance.

But now I am able to track, like when he lets the dam break and the water go, like it does move something for him. But he doesn't really have to stay tethered to that movement the way that I do, because he's not looking for clarity, he's looking for release.

It's different.

Yeah.

This really just makes me think about my ex who also had a completely open solar plexus who's a sacromg. And I had this story because I would be so deeply in my stuff. And.

Yeah, and I had this story of like, she's not feeling her feelings because there is like a relief. And I think there was some repression for sure.

But like, like I'm wondering and I'm wanting to challenge my own story of like, what feeling her feelings looked like for her. Because there was very much like, okay, now we're moving on.

And the story that I would have is like, well, you're not sobbing on the floor like me, and so you must not be feeling and how could you be moving on to this other thing? And maybe this is like also third line stuff. I don't know, you know?

Yeah, but, yeah, so there's something, there's something interesting in that, that I don't have a conclusion or resolve.

For Me that moment of like, oh, you're fine now as you're saying that. And I'm registering my own experiences of that. Like, wow, you moved on quickly. I think there's a part of me that's like, did you even feel me?

Like, were we even connected?

Because touch me stuff.

Yeah, yeah. Because I just went through that with you and it's still right here and I know I still need to be with it.

And so you being able to like take it in and move it through you and then move on, like, my narrative is like, yeah, where are you? Was that real? But it's like, it was real, but it was real for you in a way that is very different. It was a plug in and plug out get.

For their non emotionals to be able to tether back to their system, they have to unplug from the intensity of that emotion.

But for us to be able to be in our home frequency as defined emotionals, we have to unplug to be able to handle the next eight phases of this emotional integration on our own. But it's taken a lot for me to realize that's for me. It's for you. When it's correct for you.

You.

That moment where I come and I help stir it up, but the rest of it's not actually for you, it's for me. That's been like a hard pill for me to swallow. Sorry, Amalia.

No, no, I. I'm just like, we hold the continuity, like, and I think there's a. There's a grief ding, ding, ding in that of like a loneliness that I feel of like.

Like I just keep picturing when you're talking about this, like release and then move on.

I'm like, you know, like cartoon characters when they get wet and then like, you know, then the wave goes away and then you just see like some drops in the animation and the drops are gone and then all of a sudden they're dry. And I'm like, I'm still wet. Like, I'm gonna soaked. Like, I'm soaked.

That's such a perfect analogy, you know.

And I think, yeah, I'm just also curious about your ex. Obviously I'm using your ex like metaphorically here.

I guess I don't have much other context, Noah, but like your ex or whoever that is in type of, you know, situation, like it's like again, I'm like really like hooked. I'm going to keep thinking about this after this conversation of like, where does the grief live?

And it's like grief is just Like, I'm just really sitting with this. Like, grief is not. Grief can be an emotion, but it is so many more things than emotions. You know, like, it's. We've already.

It's like, it can be an emotion. It can be energy, you know, it can, like, it can be so many things, and it lives so many places.

And so I'm wondering about with your ex, is it like, it deposited somewhere in your ex. You were sobbing on the floor. It was somewhere in your ex.

But, like, maybe your ex went to some other emotional person and then stuff moved from, like, the disparate little pixels of the places that the grief deposited, you know? And I don't know, I just am like, your ex isn't wet.

Don't see an IR episode title. Your dry ex.

I'm at a loss for words. Yeah.

And yes, and I think, I mean, I'm also just going back to this, like, you know, the depth of grief and the depth of love and that, like, for me, grief has, like, the shattering that has occurred, the cracking open. Grief has opened me up to, like, deep, deep compassion as well.

And that is also an experience that, like, that I can, like, really situate within myself and then I can extend out to others.

And, like, I think that there is, like, again, and this is probably like, projector mechanics, where I'm just, like, just thinking about plugging into the other in this way.

Like, there may have been this, you know, like, yeah, her feeling in this kind of differentiated way or, like, or, like, having an emotional help, kind of, like, motor move that through. And I also sensed, like, not to make this a whole. Not to make this a relationship podcast. This is, I guess what this is.

I guess it's always been a relationship podcast. But I also sensed the, like, it came forward as anger.

Like, I sensed the frustration and the anger, which was at the, at the, which was often, like, at the kind of like, tip. I, I don't know. It was like, at the shoreline of the, of the experience. Like, I, I, There was a, There was a frequency of that.

And for me, the way that I sensed into that. And I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but it's like the way that I sensed into that was.

Felt like the unmetabolized or the unmetabolized grief was, like, there, and it was, like, coming. And it was. And it was, yeah, it was coming out as, as, like, quick reactionary anger, you know, and that's what I sensed into.

And that was my, like, oh, it feels like like, there isn't.

Yeah. Different sandbox.

Different. A little bit of a different sandbox. Yeah.

It brings me back in a kind of a different way to what Amalia was saying about, like, thank you for the alchemy in the parts of me and the. The micro dosing alchemy that's happening. And, like, you know, we always come back around. I always often come back around to choice, choice.

You know, like, I've talked about this one way I've framed grief.

And the process of emotional alchemy on this call today is like, almost as though there's a point at which we make the decision to stop repressing and deal with it. You know, like, that's how I've framed it today, and that is how I conceptualize it to a. To an extent.

And also there is the part of me that's always like, is it a choice? It doesn't. It doesn't actually feel like a choice in me. What it feels like is my tolerance for a certain discomfort shifts.

Like, my tolerance to face the music of the grief becomes greater than my tolerance for the repression of it. And I am not choosing that, actually. I just feel my body lets me know that, like. Like, yeah.

That it's time to stop repressing and start going directly towards the thing. But if someone else's body's not cueing them for that, then someone else's body's not cueing them for that. And that's where we go do our alchemy.

Right? Because what about. What about this person? According to our narratives, not being able to or willing to meet the moment. What's that bringing up in us?

Okay, my turn.

They grow out.

I had a pee. I was.

So the tolerance for the pee in the bladder has become.

Has become the bladder.

You're in alchemy. Next alchemy. Okay, thanks, you guys.

Love y'. All.

Love you so much.

It.