Conflict at work can be tough to deal with, whether you're involved in it or trying to avoid the negative impact it can have when others around you are in conflict

This week, we unick the different types of conflict that can come up and share our thoughts on how to manage it well

Key points from this episode

• Why conflict can be a good thing
• The causes of conflict
• Where to start when you need to resolve conflict

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Connect with Jacqui on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacqui-jagger/

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Get in touch about career or leadership development, outplacement workshops or recruitment support via the Catalyst Careers website

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Hello and welcome to this week's episode.

2

Today we are talking about the

four types of work conflict.

3

And we know that as a manager, it's

inevitable that conflict will happen.

4

And sometimes it can be quite scary.

5

And sometimes we can really worry

about dealing with conflict.

6

So we're going to unpack

it all today, aren't we?

7

And we're going to look at what are the

four types of work conflict and What

8

can you do in order to make sure that

you're dealing with that effectively?

9

So before we get into it, let's just

talk about what actually is conflict.

10

Jacqui: Conflict essentially is

a disagreement or a clash or some

11

kind of, struggle that happens.

12

And when people say they don't like

conflict, more specifically, It's

13

often the emotions associated with

those disagreements or clashes.

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That's the bit that is uncomfortable.

15

That's the bit that people often

don't like, because if you can

16

have a disagreement in a way that

doesn't prompt those negative

17

emotions, then people often don't

necessarily think of that as conflict.

18

They think of that as a debate or

a discussion or a robust argument,

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there are all kinds of other terms.

20

So I think for me, it's broadening

that scope and understanding, and

21

then looking at when those emotions

are involved, which is what people

22

typically associate with conflict.

23

Then how do you create the situation where

you can have some of the upsides that can

24

come from discussions and debates without

the negative emotions being attached.

25

So that's what we're aiming to support

people to do with the episode today.

26

Pam: Yeah.

27

And it's a different way, isn't it?

28

To think about conflict because as

soon as you do think of conflict you're

29

thinking of an argument, you're thinking

of that real uncomfortable conversation.

30

Maybe with raised voices and all

that kind of stuff and it does

31

fill you with dread, doesn't it?

32

But you do know that on a daily

basis as a manager, you are going

33

to be dealing with that conflict.

34

And I think for some people, for

some of my clients, especially,

35

it can really hold them back from.

36

Taking the next step because they're

like, at this stage, I can deal with the

37

conflict and when I look at taking that

next step up, it just feels like it's

38

too much of a leap and it's not what I

want to be dealing with on a daily basis.

39

So I suppose the key thing

is, how can we get around it?

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How can we approach it?

41

How can we deal with it?

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And I suppose, in, in some ways, is

there any way of getting rid of it?

43

Can we get rid of conflict?

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Jacqui: I would always argue and

advocate for the fact that the

45

aim is not to get rid of conflict.

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It's for conflict not to feel like combat.

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If you can get to a stage where

conflict in the very early part of my

48

leadership career, I was introduced

to the five dysfunctions of a team,

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which is a book and a framework by an

American author called Patrick Lencioni.

50

And one of the things that introduced

was the concept of positive conflict.

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And the assumption here is that if

there isn't conflict, it doesn't

52

mean that everything's hunky

dory and that people all agree.

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It can be that people are afraid of

putting their head above the parapet.

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It can be a sign that people just don't

care enough to put their point forward.

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It can be that people will say one thing

to create a fake view that there is

56

agreement and then they'll be bitching

and backstabbing in the background.

57

So for me it's not about

trying to get rid of conflict.

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It's trying to have conflict in a

way that's healthy and productive

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and that doesn't feel like combat.

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That's what the aim and

the intention should be.

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Pam: Yeah, I love that saying that

conflict shouldn't feel like combat.

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Because that is essentially, you're

worried because you do feel like you

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need to get, go into that situation.

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You need to.

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Have the argument and get your point

across and have that real debate.

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And it can feel quite stressful.

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So like seeing that other side of

it and conflict, not feeling like

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combat, but looking at conflict

from a positive perspective, I think

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that's a total reframe, isn't it?

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Jacqui: I found it really helpful in

that part of my career and ever since,

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and I think when people reflect on

where have the best solutions been

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found, where has the most progress been

made, it's often not where everybody

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was immediately in agreement because

then there might have been blind spots.

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It's often when there's been

different views, different

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perspectives, different approaches.

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So if you can harness that side of

disagreements and find ways that people

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can disagree, but do it with respect

and do it with an understanding of

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not leaving people feeling awful,

then you get the upsides without that

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anxiety or kind of pit of the stomach

feeling that so often accompanies

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that worry around conflict arising.

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Pam: Yeah.

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And I think that's the key, isn't it?

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It's just knowing how to handle it,

how to deal with it, how to get those

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positive aspects from having those

conversations and having those debates.

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And almost being open to those

debates, because I think sometimes

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you open yourself up to a

debate, you can feel criticized.

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That kind of feedback sometimes

or that level of debate can

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really hit your hard can't it?

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Especially if you've already got a

few insecurities and you're you're not

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really addressing those and you're not

really, you're trying to overlook those.

91

Bye.

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those and trying to deal

with the situation at hand.

93

But then somebody comes at you and

they've got a different opinion.

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They've got a different

way of looking at things.

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And it can be quite hard, can't it?

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To not take it personally.

97

Jacqui: And I think taking things

personally is a big part of where

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conflict can feel combative.

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And it.

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Interestingly, that really speaks to

the different types of conflict and

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being able to understand when do those

occur, why do those occur, and how can

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you make sure that they happen in a

way that doesn't prompt those emotions.

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Pam: Yeah, and that also is a good point

because I know when we were talking

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before before we started recording and

we were talking about the four types

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of conflict, like what, how would you

define the four types of conflict?

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Jacqui: I think people will

Often be familiar with the being

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two types of conflict, which

is often task and relationship.

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And I prefer the more nuanced four types

of conflict because I think what that

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does is allows for easier picking apart

of where does conflict arise and also

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how can we either head it off at the

pass, if it's likely to result in those

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negative impacts, or how can we make

sure that we harness the productive side?

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The first one is task, and that is, I

would define that specifically around

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where there is a disagreement or a

debate about what is the task, what

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is the goal, or what is the objective?

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Or it can also be,

which is most important.

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So for example, if you have two

different teams, you might have

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one team that has a priority.

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You take, for example, buying a new

system that will often be a big cross

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functional project where you will have

various different stakeholders and you

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will have people who will think that

budget is the most important thing you

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have people that think that specific

functionality is the most important thing.

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You will have people that think that, the

implementation timeframe is the key thing.

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So with that, if there isn't clarity

around either, what is the end game?

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What is the goal, or if there are

multiple competing things that need to

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be hit, which is most important, or how

do they rank, then what that can do is

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create these perspectives where people

come at it from their own perspective.

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And then in having that discussion

or debate, they're looking

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at it with a different lens.

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So that for me is the task conflict,

it's where there is not sufficient

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clarity on either what's the goal

or the objective, or which is most

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important if there are multiple things.

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Pam: Yeah, and I suppose that's

where leadership skills are really

133

key as well there, isn't it?

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Because it's if you recognize that

there is that conflict and it's

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like, who needs to make the decision?

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Do I take control of this?

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Do I set up like an open debate over it?

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Who makes the final decision?

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There's a lot of stuff, isn't there,

that goes in to making decisions?

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Jacqui: That lends itself very much

to another of the four types is status

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conflict, and this essentially is the

question of who's calling the shots here.

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And.

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Again, so often, it can be that

there is a lack of clarity around

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who gets to make this decision.

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So in that example I was just giving

where there's multiple stakeholders, if

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there isn't a real clarity around the

initial piece that says, this is how

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these decisions are going to get made,

then it's natural that people will defend

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their ground and people will feel like

I'm the key stakeholder in this bit and I

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should get to call the shots for this bit.

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And I think as managers and leaders,

it can often be a case as well where

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delegation can fail because of status

conflict, because you might want

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to delegate something to somebody.

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You might have communicated to them.

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So in their mind, it's

their decision to take.

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But if you haven't communicated that to

other people, if you haven't had that

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conversation, for example, with other

members of the team that you've asked

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this person to look after something on

your behalf or to other functions, then

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in other people's minds they're an equal,

they're a colleague, and this person

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is behaving as if they get to call the

shots, but I don't understand that, so

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that can, where status conflict happens,

and there is a lack of clarity around

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really who's calling the shots here, often

what you'll see is upward escalation.

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Because it's we can't agree between us.

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We've all come at it with

our own perspectives.

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So who it does get to call the shots

and you'll see different functional

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lines, upward escalation, where one,

one person will be saying to their

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boss hang on a minute, I thought

this is me and then over in another

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department, someone else will be having

the same conversation with their boss.

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So I think that's a really helpful one

to recognize and understand both for you

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as an individual manager or leader, if

that is the case with you, am I assuming

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that I get to call the shots on things?

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Or is it definitely the case?

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But also if I want someone else

to call the shots on my behalf

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so that I can delegate something.

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then have I made that clear, not just

to that person, but also to other

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stakeholders involved so that they

know I'm not the person to deal with.

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Pam: Yeah.

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And it's a really interesting

conversation, isn't it?

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Because you can see where it all

goes wrong when you start breaking

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down the different types of conflict,

because you can see sometimes where

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those toxic cultures come from.

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And why people can't make decisions or

won't make decisions or feel like the

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hands are tied or become demotivated.

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There's so much, isn't there?

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And you don't realize that it all kind

of sits behind this banner of like

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conflict, the conflict needs to happen.

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Jacqui: That's almost the flip

side as well is you'll have times

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where people will be like, this

person won't take accountability.

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And there'll be frustration that

they're not calling the shots or

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not taking decisions or not taking

ownership for suggesting things.

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But again, that can be almost the other

way around that they're assuming that

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status sits at a higher level than them.

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And so they don't

believe that they should.

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So you can then see some of that

frustration start to play out where you

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want someone to show the initiative and

to take ownership and accountability.

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But if they're not aware.

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That there is that expectation on them,

then that can cause frustration where

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you then feel like you're having to

get involved in things that you really

198

shouldn't have to get involved in.

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So you see it play out both ways round.

200

Pam: Yeah.

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And it's so interesting when you start

unpacking it and one of the, one of

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the other ones as we were just talking,

then I was just thinking about it and

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something that comes up a lot for my

clients is our personality clashes and

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they'll come into that relationship.

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Conflict because that is the

cause of so many people leaving

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different jobs, leaving different

managers, those personality clashes

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and that relationship conflict.

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That is, that's huge, isn't it?

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Jacqui: It's an interesting one, because

I think the assumption is that's the

210

case, and there's an element of it, but

often relationship conflict is a boil

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over from another type of conflict not

being understood or not being addressed.

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That if I cover the fourth,

so relationship is one, we've

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got task and we've got status.

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We've also got process.

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So process conflict is where

there's disagreement about

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how to go about something.

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So there's clarity about where are we

trying to get to, what's the end goal.

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What's the budget or what's the

deadline, and there could be clarity

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around who gets to make the decisions.

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But people will then still

have different perspectives and

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ideas about how to go about it.

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So just because you've got that

status doesn't mean you get to

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call the shots on the process.

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And I think sometimes people will.

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interpret that if I've got that

ability to call the ultimate shots,

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then I get to decide everything

and I get to decide how we do it.

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And that can make people dismissive

and make people unprepared to listen

228

to other perspectives or ideas.

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And so when you get that, you get

people that are experienced and skilled

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people who feel like their ideas are not

being listened to or not being heard.

231

You get the process conflict that

then becomes relationship conflict.

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So each of the other three can then

lead into relationship conflict

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if it's not addressed effectively,

if it's not managed effectively.

234

So although that reason for people leaving

is often the relationship conflict, if

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the other types of conflict have been

managed effectively, then that chance

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for personality clashes and relationship

conflict would often have been mitigated

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and equally, even if there had been some.

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People would often have felt differently

about the relationship that they

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developed because there wouldn't have

been some of the niggles with the

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other types of conflict that spill over

into full on relationship conflict.

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Pam: Yeah, I suppose when you look

at it from that point of view, it's

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wow there's more to conflict than

just having an argument or a debate.

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There's that whole bigger picture,

isn't there, that sits behind it.

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And I suppose if you if, if you're

somebody that's listening, that thinks,

245

oh, I hate conflict and it is stopping

me from moving forward, or if you're in a

246

space where conflict is just an everyday

occurrence and you just you've had enough

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of it and you're like, I'm absolutely

It's probably a good time, isn't it?

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To start going, right?

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Okay, let's unpack the conflict.

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Where is it coming from?

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And analyzing the people involved and

the processes and all of the things

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that you need to deliver and like

really breaking it down and asking

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yourself, is it really conflict or do

we just need to ask better questions?

254

Have a different kind of conversation.

255

And I suppose looking at

it from that perspective.

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Okay.

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Could really break down that conflict

and stop it being a barrier to you

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moving on in your career as well.

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Jacqui: Absolutely it does because it's

the emotions associated with conflict

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that are the bit that people don't want.

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So if you take away that negative side

effect and you handle the other types

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of conflict, which are pretty much

inevitable, then that's where That

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doesn't become the same kind of issue.

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It doesn't become the energy drain.

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Those negative emotions

are such an energy drain.

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If you're experiencing them day to

day, that's why you've associated

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that with those toxic environments.

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Because if people are exposed to all

of this going on all the time, and

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it's not understood and unpacked and

handled effectively, it's draining.

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It's exhausting to be in that

environment all the time.

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Pam: Is, and I see that so often from

people who are like looking to get out

272

of places because they're drained because

they're exhausted and it's, they've just

273

got to the point where they've had enough.

274

So I suppose what.

275

Is the advice then for resolving

conflict and to, to be able to unpack

276

this for yourself and understand where

it's all coming from and I suppose

277

finding those positive angles as well.

278

Jacqui: So the advice

that I would tend to give.

279

would always be to start with clarity.

280

So if you understand which type of

conflict is happening, and normally you

281

might notice conflict because you're

having the negative side effects.

282

So say you're experiencing some

of that, then it's understanding

283

where is that happening?

284

And it could be that there's multiple

things, so it could be that there

285

is task conflict because it's not

clear what the outcome needs to be.

286

It could be.

287

That it's process conflict because there

are different ideas and approaches, it

288

could be that it's status conflict and

it's not clear who's making the decision.

289

So I think, first of all, identify

which of those areas and look to

290

create the clarity and sometimes that

is as simple as asking that question.

291

So if, for example, there's lots of

discussion and debate about a process.

292

And some of that discussion and

debate is from people who are

293

not stakeholders in the process.

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That can be really frustrating.

295

So sometimes it's about saying,

Okay, the people that need to have

296

input into this are these people.

297

So what are your suggestions

about how we go achieving it?

298

And.

299

I think when you start to then put those

things together and think what is the

300

type of conflict and what clarity is

there or isn't there relating to either

301

what's the goal or how do we go about it

or who gets to make the decision, then

302

I think straight away that clarity can

really help as a first starter for 10.

303

So that's where I would typically

start is understand what's going

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on and then understand why.

305

What's going on with that situation

and what should be going on with

306

that situation if it's different.

307

Pam: Yeah, I think that really makes

sense just to get that clarity from

308

the start because then at least

you know what you're dealing with.

309

You've got a chance to have a

think through what's going on

310

and potentially even spot some

quick wins in there as well.

311

Jacqui: Yeah, absolutely.

312

And then I think the second thing for

me is to have behavioural agreements

313

about making sure that when disagreements

happen, it is handled productively.

314

So this is particularly thinking if

you're a leader or manager of a team,

315

how might you ensure that people can

disagree, but do that in a way that

316

is respectful and is appropriate.

317

So having those behavioral

agreements and calling that.

318

At the time that it's happening

again can be really helpful.

319

So if the agreement is that people

are prepared to listen, then that

320

agreement needs to be upheld.

321

It's no good saying that this is how we're

going to behave and then not holding.

322

Standard.

323

Pam: Yeah.

324

And I suppose it as the leader,

it's up to you, isn't it?

325

To make sure that once you've

got that agreement in place,

326

that is how it happens.

327

And you call those people out.

328

It's almost like the one

minute manager, isn't it?

329

Where you give that praise at the

time or you have those difficult

330

conversations at the time.

331

So you just always call in.

332

People out on their behavior.

333

And I suppose from, from a good

and a bad perspective as well,

334

you don't always have to just be

calling out the negative behaviors.

335

You can also praise people when you

feel like they've handled the situation

336

well, or when they've listened well

to the other person's perspective.

337

And I suppose within that, I always feel

like when disagreements happen, especially

338

at work, a lot of the time, it's when

people have taken things personally,

339

isn't it, people can take things on board.

340

And, it's, I suppose it's almost that

providing that support as a leader so

341

that you're, if your team are triggered

or feel like, that was a personal attack

342

that you can help them unpack that, or

if that's happening to you what support

343

do you need in order to understand

what's going on there for you as well.

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Jacqui: And so much of that comes back

to that foundational psychological

345

safety that we've talked about on

a number of different episodes.

346

Because if that's there and you

fundamentally believe that other people,

347

broadly speaking, think well of you, then

one time, if their, choice of language

348

or their tone or, their manner with

you is a bit out of line, That doesn't

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feel as much of a threat or as more as

much of an attack as it does if that

350

is happening consistently or as if you

don't know or feel safe or comfortable

351

being yourself around other people.

352

So I think that really is about building

that foundation of psychological

353

safety because that helps to mitigate

the risk of people feeling threatened

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or criticized or blamed or judged.

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Pam: Yeah, that makes absolute sense.

356

So what else would you say, then?

357

What would be your kind of

key advice to help with this?

358

So

359

Jacqui: I think timing is

also a really key thing.

360

That whole thing of, if you receive

an email, type the reply, but

361

don't necessarily send the reply.

362

If you're feeling in conflict with

that person when you're typing that

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email and you're, furiously going at

your keyboard, then the re Then what

364

you're likely to have done is to react

rather than respond and hence, step

365

away and it's the same, with verbal

discussions where emotions get heightened.

366

It's that aspect of sometimes

it's about letting the emotion

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subside and then coming back to

reflect on what happened there.

368

How did that happen?

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And this can be a personal

reflection of what happened.

370

Why did I feel such a

heightened sense of emotion?

371

What was it that somebody said

or did that prompted that?

372

So that's the personal reflection.

373

But also if you're leading a team

and you're seeing it play out,

374

sometimes it's about, calling a

timeout, having a break from the

375

discussion or kind of stepping away.

376

Reflecting and then coming back to

it where the emotions have naturally

377

subsided just with a bit of time and

distance and then being able to move

378

into that logical headspace of doing the

unpacking of, so what triggered that?

379

How did we go from, a helpful,

rational discussion with ideas being

380

brought in to a bit of a slang match?

381

You're not going to answer that.

382

At the time that the slanger match

has just been happening, you've

383

got to give that time and space.

384

But equally, if you give that time

and space and then do nothing to

385

reflect and prevent it happening next

time, then that you've tolerated it.

386

So you've condoned it

and said that's okay.

387

So then there isn't that same awareness of

how do we mitigate that risk or how do we.

388

still keep the discussion and debate,

but not have the negative side effects.

389

So I think giving time and space,

but not giving yourself off the

390

hook to just think, Oh it's all

salt and water and the bridge.

391

Now, sometimes you've got to use judgment.

392

Sometimes it will be.

393

And sometimes it is just a case

of, okay, people let simmer down.

394

But sometimes it's about getting

under the skin of what prompted and

395

where did that come from and what do

we need to do differently if that's

396

created a reaction that we don't want.

397

Pam: Yeah, and I suppose it's always a

good exercise to do as well, isn't it?

398

Like whenever you feel real strong

emotions towards something, like just

399

to stop, regardless of whether that is

positive or negative, it's like just

400

to stop and think about it and reflect.

401

So like you were saying,

you're going to respond.

402

bond rather than react to things.

403

And I always have a reminder on my

phone that says don't allow your

404

emotions to overpower your intelligence.

405

Because it doesn't matter

who we are or like how much

406

work we've done on ourselves.

407

We react to emotions, don't we?

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We're humans, and I have that reminder on

my phone, I'm just showing it to Jackie

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on the screen, but I have that on my

phone because it is so easy, isn't it,

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to allow your emotions to control you

and how you react, how you respond, like

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emotions control everything, don't they?

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And it's just that little reminder

that don't let your emotions overpower,

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what you know, and, what, because you

can easily end up going down a rabbit

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hole, getting sucked into all kinds of

negativity, getting sucked into all kinds

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of debates and things that maybe are

not even necessary through, emotions.

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Jacqui: Yeah, I love that saying,

don't let your emotions overpower your

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intelligence, it's such a helpful and

succinct reminder that probably if I'm

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anything to go by, I imagine there's

plenty of people sitting there going,

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yep, that's probably something that I

need to remind myself of more often too.

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Pam: Yeah, and it is it's a hard

one because it is having that

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real kind of self awareness and

none of us are perfect, are we?

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None of us can, be 100 percent perfect on

managing emotions every day of the week.

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But I think the more awareness that

you have and the more you think

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about your emotions and you reflect

on them and, how these things make

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you feel, it will just make dealing

with that conflict so much easier.

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Jacqui: Yeah, absolutely.

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Pam: So is there anything else we

want to add before, before we finish?

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Jacqui: So I think just the final

thing that I would say particularly is

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important if you are a manager or leader

and responsible for enabling others to

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resolve conflict is not to prejudge.

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What's going on for other people and

to help them find their own solutions.

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So I think it's easy to feel

a sense of responsibility.

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For example, if you've got people in

your team where there is being a bit

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of a clash of this is how it should be.

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And this is how, I want you to behave.

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But what that can then do is

again, add to that kind of feeling

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of being judged or criticized.

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So I would always advocate a real

kind of coaching approach of helping

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that person to reflect and understand,

and particularly if somebody's.

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If you've heard about a conflict that

you've not been a part of or that

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you've not observed, I think it's

easy to make assumptions based on

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patterns of behavior you might have

seen before or assumptions that you

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might have about the people concerned.

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And that can be really damaging.

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So I think it's really important that

if you're In a situation where you

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are supporting other people to try

and resolve conflict between them,

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that you really coach through that and

help them to do that unpicking help

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'em to get into that logical space.

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Okay.

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What triggered it?

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What type of conflict was it?

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Which of these four

types was at play here?

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What prompted it to go from.

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This place to this place, how

could you handle it differently?

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Those kinds of questions can enable

other people to take responsibility

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for those personal relationships that

they want to create and for making

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sure that they have healthy discussion

without it feeling like combat.

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Pam: Yeah, that's amazing.

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And please do feel free to share this

episode with anybody that you think might

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be struggling with workplace conflict.

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And you feel like this could really help

them to make sense of it and unpack it.

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And as usual, if there's any topics you'd

like us to cover, get in touch and let us

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know, and don't forget to rate and review

us on your favorite podcast platforms.

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And we'll be back next

week with another episode.