Shownotes
Overview
In this inaugural episode of Chemical Reactions, host Alex Steakely welcomes Jason McDaniel from Bulk Transporter to discuss the current landscape of the chemical transport industry. Listen in as they touch on the challenges and opportunities in tank trucking, the impact of technology, the importance of fostering new talent in the sector, and insights on industry trends, making it a must-listen for professionals in the chemical and trucking fields.
Main Topics Discussed
- Introduction to Jason McDaniel and his background in bulk transportation journalism.
- Current state of the chemical transport industry post-COVID.
- Resilience of the tank truck sector compared to other trucking segments.
- Innovations in the industry, including smart trailer technology and improved safety measures.
- The influence of tariffs and economic uncertainties on transportation logistics.
- Discussion of driver shortages and the importance of attracting younger talent to the industry.
- Future outlook for chemical transport and emerging practices in trailer leasing.
Key Insights
- Resilience of the Tank Truck Sector: Despite economic challenges, the chemical transport market is expected to fare better due to the continual need for essential goods such as fuel and chemicals (00:11:00).
- Importance of Technology: New technologies such as the Airbox One communication system and the SafeHeat system for heated products showcase advancements aimed at improving safety and efficiency (00:19:00, 00:20:33).
- Driver Recruitment: Efforts to attract younger drivers are crucial, with campaigns targeting younger generations to embrace the rewarding opportunities within the tank truck industry (00:49:08).
- Impact of Tariffs: The ongoing shift in tariffs is expected to create new lanes for U.S. manufacturers, potentially boosting the demand for chemical transport services (00:15:25).
Notable Quotes
- "It's about building relationships… The people in this industry are great." – Jason McDaniel (00:52:20).
- “The tank truck sector has a much lower turnover than general trucking, and the pay is traditionally better.” – Jason McDaniel (00:50:05).
Timestamps
- 00:00 - Introduction to the Podcast
- 00:22 - Alex welcomes Jason McDaniel
- 03:43 - Jason discusses his background and role at Bulk Transporter
- 10:13 - Analysis of current industry challenges
- 19:09 - Innovations in trailer technology
- 27:03 - Conversations around tariffs and economic uncertainty
- 35:48 - Driver recruitment efforts and challenges
- 48:45 - Future outlook on the industry
Relevant Links
If you enjoyed the discussion, please subscribe, share with a friend, and leave us a review. Stay connected with us for future episodes featuring insights from the chemical transport industry! Follow Jason McDaniel on LinkedIn and connect with Alex Steakely for more engaging conversations.
Transcripts
[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Chemical Reactions, the podcast where we explore the latest insights and innovations in liquid bulk transportation, chemical manufacturing, and other facets of the chemical industry. Presented by Matlack Leasing, your partner for liquid bulk trailer leasing solutions. Now here's your host, Alex Steakely.
[00:00:22] Alex Steakley: Hey, guys. Welcome back to Chemical Reactions, the podcast about the chemical transport world and the people in it. Today, I've got Jason McDaniel from Bulk Transporter. If you've been around LinkedIn at all, if you're in the chemical transport space, I'm sure you've seen this guy posting on NTTC all over the place. So to have you, Jason.
[00:00:43] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. Glad to be here and be part of this special occasion. As as far as I understand it, this is the first in a in a series of podcasts you're gonna be producing. So I'm I'm glad I'm part a guinea pig maybe, or that's part of the deal.
[00:00:53] Alex Steakley: First one, best one. Right? I mean, who better to have on than the guy that's in the know in chemical transport?
[00:00:59] Jason McDaniel: Hoping. Hopefully, we can make a good first impression.
[00:01:01] Alex Steakley: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome, man. Well, like I said, good to have you on. And just give me a little background about you, man. I know you've been writing for Bulk Transporter for a while. How'd you kinda get into that?
[00:01:13] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. First of all, you know, Bulk Transporter is one of the oldest trade publications in in in all of trade media. Really, it was founded in 1937, so I've been around since World War two. The previous editor, his name was Chuck Wilson. He had been editor of the magazine for thirty one years. So, you know, luckily, was able to study under him for a little bit, you know, learn about the industry. And then, you know, I'm just trying to be a good steward for this publication and keep it going because it has a special place in my heart having known people that worked on the magazine for so long, knowing the previous owners before our parent company that owns us now, which is Endeavor Business Media. So, you know, it's been it's been great. I've been doing this now for eight years. Started in two or seven years, I guess. Started in 02/2018. Been the editor of the magazine for five years since 2020 right around COVID. It's when the previous editor retired. And, so, yeah, I I went to school for journalism, UT graduate. Hey. Hook them horns. Did sports journalism for fifteen, twenty years before I got into this. And, you know, about the time it it was great when I was when I was my kids were younger. They stayed at home with me, worked from home, and, you know, I was a contractor, freelancer. Most of that time, I wrote for the Houston Chronicle. But when they got a little bit older and started school, you know, I was just kinda ready to get back into an office environment. You know, needed to get a real job for with benefits and that kinda thing. And so it just kinda worked out where I found this company. It was it was owned by a different company at the time and went to work for them. It was Informa, I think, at the time. K. And worked in an office down in Shepherd. And then, of course, COVID came around, and they closed our office and sent us home Yeah. And never opened the office back up again.
[00:02:47] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:02:47] Jason McDaniel: So now I'm back at home working out of my home.
[00:02:49] Alex Steakley: One man band.
[00:02:51] Jason McDaniel: So, yeah, just been journalism forever. Tried to bring some of that newspaper background that I have to the to the job. But then also just, you know, kinda being an advocate for the industry. You know, we we want to, at both transporter, share best practices, highlight fleets that are doing it the right way, especially when it comes to safety, and then introduce new equipment and technology to our readers, you know, because that that's what it's all about, efficiency, safety, trying to continue to improve and deal with all the changing conditions that truck drivers or, you know, trucking companies have to deal with.
[00:03:22] Alex Steakley: Yeah. It's interesting. You know, chemical transport is such a a niche market. Right? Mhmm. And you coming from sports, did you have a a background in in chemical transport? Did somebody you know?
[00:03:35] Jason McDaniel: No. No. I didn't have any background in chemical. I mean, any or or trucking at all.
[00:03:39] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:03:39] Jason McDaniel: You know? I mean, I've watched the car restoration shows. I, you know, I drive a Challenger. I like vehicles, but I didn't know much about trucks coming into it. So it was definitely a learning process. You know, a lot of the the writing and reporting and storytelling translates pretty easily, but there was definitely a learning curve.
[00:03:54] Alex Steakley: Oh, yeah.
[00:03:55] Jason McDaniel: And that's why I say I was fortunate to study under people who've done this a long time. And then having, you know, been able to go out to a lot of different events, especially the national tank truck carriers events that I get to go to, you meet a lot of great people. And and there's a lot of people that are really generous with their time and their knowledge and are willing to help you. And and it is a niche market which has allowed me to get to know a lot of people in the industry a lot better Mhmm. Than over in the overall trucking segment. You know? Some of those events you go to and there's so many more people, it's it's so much larger.
[00:04:23] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:04:23] Jason McDaniel: It's hard to get to know everybody, and it takes time to build up that rapport where people wanna go to you to tell their stories.
[00:04:29] Alex Steakley: I noticed too on on your LinkedIn, you write for refrigerated transport as well. Would you say there's a lot of similarities between the two, or do you think that, you know, one community is a little more tight knit than the other?
[00:04:44] Jason McDaniel: I would definitely think the the reefer community would be bigger. There are similarities. So from a historical perspective for the publications, they were always part of the what they call the the trailer group, And that's refrigerator transporter, bulk transporter, and trailer bodybuilders. And that's because what makes those segments unique is is the trailer, not the truck. You know? Yeah. So they're all kind of specialized transportation. But, yeah, there's definitely some unique aspects to tank truck, especially when it comes to the types of products they haul, you know, the the level of safety, the level of insurance that they have to have. Yeah. But both specialized fields. So refrigerator transporter is another publication that was around for a long time. And but it the print product was phased out a few years ago. I I did produce that print product for a couple of years. Now it's all digital. It's actually a channel on fleet owner, and it's a special section that comes out in fleet owner magazine twice a year where we highlight a fleet and then an equipment or technologies type story. And so that's kind of the direction we've gone with that. And so and and, you know, what makes also refrigerated trailers unique is those transport refrigeration units.
[00:05:49] Alex Steakley: So Yeah.
[00:05:50] Jason McDaniel: Know a lot about Thermo King, Carrier, a lot of the other new companies in that market. Yeah. But, yeah, some so some similarities, but also some differences.
[00:05:58] Alex Steakley: Yeah. I know the the bare minimum about reefer transportation. My dad's got a produce. Works for a produce company, shown him in produce. So grew up working in the warehouses over there, saw that, but, they're both they're both specialized. I I think chemical even more so than reefer with with everything that you've gotta go through, DOT, tank washes, all that stuff. I mean, it one wrong move. Like you said, insurance is sky high for a reason in Mhmm. In bulk transport.
[00:06:28] Jason McDaniel: Well, that's one of the first things I had to learn covering refrigerator transportation too is that, yeah, reefer doesn't mean my what you might think it does Yeah. Yeah. In some areas, other areas of the of the country.
[00:06:38] Alex Steakley: And then your sports writing background, man. Any any cool stories?
[00:06:42] Jason McDaniel: You know, I mean, I I was very fortunate. You know, I've gotten to cover a lot of a lot of great games, pro level, college, high school. So I've covered state championship games, covered, you know, playoff games, been in the locker room for Texans games.
[00:06:58] Alex Steakley: So all sports across the board, baseball, football, football.
[00:07:00] Jason McDaniel: Kinda like a utility player. I would just kinda fill in the gaps, help out wherever I could.
[00:07:04] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:07:04] Jason McDaniel: You know, I got to interview Priest Holmes, which was one of my idols.
[00:07:07] Alex Steakley: Oh, man. That's awesome.
[00:07:09] Jason McDaniel: We had do a one on one interview with him back in the day. They was always crazy to me that he was a backup in college and then Yeah. So great in the pros. But, of course, who was he behind? Ricky Williams. Yeah. That's So, yeah, I got to do a lot of great things, you know, but one thing I would say about covering transportation as opposed to sports is that in a lot of cases, especially when you get to the pros, the athletes talk to you because they have to. It's it's part of their their contract. They don't necessarily want to. Yeah. And they don't necessarily wanna be around you sometimes. Whereas, you get over to the transportation side, and especially in a niche segment like tank trucks, they're happy to have you around. They're happy to have that coverage. They're they're generous with their time and their stories. And so the it's got it's a lot different dynamic that I've also appreciated. So I got to have a lot of fun doing sports, but this has been a lot interesting and helped me kinda grow and take the next step in my career.
[00:07:54] Alex Steakley: So like I was telling you off air, I I referred to you as the Adam Schefter of the liquid bulk transporter space. But if everybody's willing to talk to you, you don't need any special sources or unnamed sources. It's pretty pretty wide open, and everybody's pretty transparent.
[00:08:10] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing about, you know, building up that rapport is that, you know, tank truck fleets give me, you know, access that they don't afford a lot of other people into their operations, their, you know, their, you know, marketing strategies, you know, different things that are going on internally. And that and that that's just something that's been built up over time, that trust that you have. You know? Yeah. I definitely don't use unnamed sources. You know, a lot of times I'll work with fleets to make sure I'm I'm sending the right message that they want to because it's it's a trade it's trade media. It's not quite the same as yeah. As long as you don't call me Steve, you know, Stephen a Smith.
[00:08:40] Alex Steakley: Yeah. No. No. No. Yeah.
[00:08:41] Jason McDaniel: It's not quite the same. I'm not there just to be a a talking head. You know? I'm trying to share stories, help flee help help readers, you know, get get some insight into some new things that might be able to help them run their business better, that kind of thing.
[00:08:52] Alex Steakley: I mean, maybe if the podcast space doesn't work out, we start a first take for, liquid bulk transport, and we, we just argue about different transporters.
[00:08:59] Jason McDaniel: I'd I'd rather do, like, an around the horn style Oh, there you go. Journalists. Yeah. I appreciate that style a little better.
[00:09:04] Alex Steakley: Okay. Well, let's jump into a little bit more, you know, serious topics about where the transport space has been and where it's headed. Obviously, chemical transport companies had a big boom kind of coming off that COVID space.
[00:09:18] Jason McDaniel: Mhmm.
[00:09:20] Alex Steakley: It's since kind of been a a little bit of a roller coaster. You know, I I think you're really equipped to talk about it. Where do you see kind of the state of the industry right now? Any kind of you know, I know we're still seeing depressed rates, rates per mile across the board. It's not what it was during COVID, which, you know, those were outliers anyway. But, anything that you're seeing in the space that some headwinds that were hitting or, different challenges that a lot of people are talking about?
[00:09:49] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. I mean, I think, obviously, overall, the overall trucking industry, it's been a a tough couple of years, you know, a a recession. They called it for a for a while a rolling recession, I think, or something like that. And, you know, you expect a big dip and that doesn't really come, but then you you don't really see that upswing either. But I think it's it's been rougher in some segments, you know, like reefer transportation, I think, has has has been hit harder. And then just regular dry van transportation, LTL, especially, where I think they've they've really been hurting. And you've seen a lot of that capacity exit the market with some of the smaller trucking companies, DOT numbers that, you know, are not surviving that Yeah. Went out on their own during COVID when when the rates were sky high and everything was, you know, running as fast as you could. Mhmm. And now and then they also purchased equipment when maybe it was a little bit too expensive, and so they're having they were having trouble surviving through that downtime. But I think what you've what you've seen in tank truck sector, which I think is kind of general, is that it's overall fared better. Know, You I think you've seen some rates suffering. You've seen some volumes go down, but it hasn't gone down as as hard. You know, the the fall hasn't been as precipitous, I guess. You know? And then and they've had a little bit more resiliency because you still need fuel. You still need those input, you know, those food inputs, those chemical inputs. You still need houses even though, you know, the excuse me. The construction side has probably been tougher because of some of the home, you know, home building with the rates being so high.
[00:11:12] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:11:13] Jason McDaniel: But I think overall, they fared better, and I and I've I've heard that. I was at National Tank Truck Carriers annual conference in Tampa recently, and and there was a tank truck market analysis presented there by someone from American Trucking Associations. And it was FTR or ACT, one of the analyst firms. And, you know, they've said overall that they've done well, and they're expecting some growth still. And, you know
[00:11:36] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:11:37] Jason McDaniel: Chemicals, I think, have been the the play, but I think that there people are starting to realize that EVs are not gonna they're not gonna the the adoption is not gonna be as quick as as people had hoped.
[00:11:46] Alex Steakley: No. I thought Peterbilt just rolled out some some EVs.
[00:11:50] Jason McDaniel: Well yeah. So the ACT Expo was recent, and and you still have manufacturers rolling out those electric vehicles because, you know, it takes a long time. O OEMs can't pivot that quickly. I mean, you know, have a new administration come in. They have new priorities. They're talking about rolling back some timelines or, you know, delaying some timelines as far as zero emission adoption, but the OEMs can't pivot that quickly. And so, yeah, there the ACT Expo as far as I was you know, as far as I understand was pretty busy. I mean, it was one of the bigger events they've had there. There was a lot going on, but the the electric vehicle adoption is definitely slower than anticipated, and it's gonna be even slower on the tank truck side, I think.
[00:12:27] Alex Steakley: Yeah. Especially with the the infrastructure. I mean, right now, you can pretty much go straight shot to your deliveries. If they had to time out where they're stopping and kinda going out of the way, you're just talking about extra cost being passed on to the the consignee.
[00:12:42] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. With the the weight of a battery taking away payload capacity, that's just gonna be more trucks on the road, which kind of anti productive. Yeah. And, you know, and then not just that. On the tank truck side, you just have the safety issue. Are electric vehicles intrinsically safe? And right now, as far as as far as I understand, there's no petroleum. There's no loading racks or storage terminals that are allowing electric vehicles to pull in there and load fuel into a trailer.
[00:13:06] Alex Steakley: That's true.
[00:13:07] Jason McDaniel: That's true. Because it's just you can't say for sure that it's that it's that it's safe.
[00:13:10] Alex Steakley: Yeah. Yeah. Because we haven't seen it. Yeah. Haven't even thought about that. We've been I've just been thinking about the the cost side of it. But, yeah, I mean, if they're not even allowed to pull in there, then you might have to talk to every producer and change the way that they're loading and change their loading racks.
[00:13:26] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. So it's the capacity. It's the safety issue. And then with all trucking, of course, it's just the range for for long range vehicles when you're gonna have to recharge. Are you gonna be able to get there and back? Is the shipper or the consignee gonna have a a terminal where you could charge there and then head back? Mhmm. And then, obviously, just the cost of an electric truck. I mean
[00:13:43] Alex Steakley: And how long that's gonna take? I mean, I know some friends that have electric vehicles for their personal vehicle. And if they don't charge it at home and they've gotta sit at a gas station or whatever that has those power chargers, if they're not a fast bank, it's two hours.
[00:13:57] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. I know. Definitely, tank truckers are not fans of EVs. You know, they're I think if there's anything they're leaning toward, maybe on the alternative fuel side, it's the hydrogen or hydrogen fuel cells. And then, of course, some of the renewables, a lot of that stuff has gotten a lot better Yeah. As well. But, you know, I think there there's just a lot of issues with with EV adoption, and, you know, there's there's a lot of factors that are gonna continue to slow it down, I think.
[00:14:20] Alex Steakley: Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, we've gone through it, and we've we've seen kind of a a shift, but another headwind is obviously tariffs. Mhmm. What have you been hearing about kind of that market? Obviously, before, we were doom and gloom with 145% on China, and everybody was up in the sixties and seventies, and now we've kinda tampered expectations. Everybody's playing nice together. What what are you seeing on that end?
[00:14:46] Jason McDaniel: Yeah. So I think the new buzzword this year has been uncertainty. You know, there's always some new buzzword that people are throwing around, and and right near right now, you hear that everywhere you you turn. Mhmm. As far as especially when you start talking to forecasters about what the economy is gonna do. Is there gonna be a worse recession now? You know, what's the stock market doing? Mhmm. So you hear all of those things. You know, it's interesting. I was gonna bring up this report that I saw recently that I was planning to publish a story about, and and they've asked me to hold off a little bit. We're gonna go back because I think they may do some revisions because of tariffs. Okay. But they did actually talk a little bit about that as far as what the impact could be on the tank truck sector. And the overall thing with this report is that they're expecting above GDP growth through 2029 Oh, wow. As far as rates, volumes, and revenue. Yeah. I think the number I saw was, like, two and a half times GDP through 2029, and there's a lot of different factors that are a positive for tank truck carriers, which I can get into. But as far as the tariffs, you know, even before they did the revisions on this report, one thing they were talking about was the near shoring impact Yep. And how that could help tank truck carriers because you're bringing manufacturing that, you know, over more manufacturing to The US is gonna be more potential for those chemicals, hauling chemicals, those input materials that manufacturers need. Yep. And then also, if tariffs are working how the current administration says they will and and also opening up new markets for US producers to be able to send new products out into other countries, UK or China, whoever they're negotiating with now, that's gonna open up more opportunity to diversify, send more products out that are produced here. Yeah. You know, one thing I heard was plastic resins. If they're able to open up new markets for US made plastic resins, you know, that's gonna be a a benefit to moving those things around for export purposes, getting them to the dock, you know, maybe ISO tanks.
[00:16:37] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:16:37] Jason McDaniel: So, you know, there's there's a lot of uncertainty, but I think there's a lot of positives that tank truck carriers can look forward to that are that are good economic headwinds. You know, like we mentioned, the the delay in adoption of EV vehicles. Because, you know, that's another thing that's interesting with tank truck carriers is when they start considering these alternative fuels, it's not just about what will be powering their tractors. It's what are they gonna be hauling in their trailers.
[00:17:01] Alex Steakley: Yeah. 100%.
[00:17:02] Jason McDaniel: You you you hear about some of the larger manufacturers developing liquid hydrogen trailers now. Mhmm. You know, I've seen major energy producers doing more experimenting with these tube trailers, these compressed gas
[00:17:13] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:17:14] Jason McDaniel: Tube trailers, which are million dollar pieces of equipment Yeah. That most carriers aren't gonna be able to factor into their rates. So, yeah, tank truck carriers have to consider that from two different perspectives. What's gonna power their vehicles, and then what are they gonna be hauling, and where what does that mean to their network
[00:17:28] Alex Steakley: Yeah.
[00:17:28] Jason McDaniel: And how they're gonna need to set up their terminals for the future.
[00:17:30] Alex Steakley: Yeah. 100%. You know, just on touching on you touched on raw materials with tariffs. A lot of our customer base is we've got two two big ones. It's liquid transport companies and chemical manufacturers. And talking to both of them just in candid conversations, they thought that maybe it would open up new lanes for them because of raw material production coming back stateside. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I I think there's definitely some positive optimism, cautious optimism, but, yeah, wait and see is probably the the way to think
