Farming minister, Stephen Morgan, joins The AG Show to share his vision for the future of British farming. In a wide-ranging chat, he talks profitability, investment, food security and how government can help create the conditions for a thriving agricultural sector.

We also look ahead to the second SFI application window of the year, breaking down what's changed and how AHDB's cost-benefit tool can help you work out whether an application is the right fit for your business.

Plus, cottage-cheese bread is back on the agenda. What started as a passing mention has become something of an obsession on the show.

SOME USEFUL BITS (FROM AHDB & BEYOND)

Stephen Morgan MP - GOV.UK

SFI cost benefit tool | AHDB Tools

SFI26: scheme rules and guidance - GOV.UK

Stacking options for SFI | AHDB

Recovering grassland and setting autumn priorities | AHDB

Tesco bans 114 ingredients as it launches UPF clampdown | The Grocer

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So, team, we've gathered early, we've actually got one of our guests with us, Amandeep.

We'll be talking about SFI a little bit later, but not only is Amandeep an esteemed guest on the Ag show, she is one of our avid listeners.

Have you tried Hannah's cottage cheese bread yet, Amandeet?

Not yet, but I certainly want the recipe, Hannah.

Well, to spoil it.

It's very, very simple.

I think it's like 2 tablespoons of cottage cheese, 3 tablespoons of self raising flour and then whatever ingredients you want to flavour it.

And yes, it is good.

Marksman usually makes it in a bread machine, so this is really for him.

So what should he, should he whisk it in the bread machine or should he go for the oven?

Oh, I'm not qualified to use a bread machine.

No, I just like simple things.

She's selling you a pup.

I think, Amandeep, you're going to actually have to report back and not just go, oh, yeah, it's a lovely recipe, pass it on to someone else.

And then, you know, Charlotte was questioning.

Whether it was actually any good.

Like, yeah, I wasn't just faking my enjoyment, it was actually tasty.

Hello there, I'm Hannah Clarke.

I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees.

And I'm Phil Maiden.

Welcome to The AG Show.

This week, the Farming Minister, Stephen Morgan joins us to talk all the issues shaping British agriculture, including profitability, investment and food security.

In our manifesto, we said food security is national security, but making sure we are really clear what that means in terms of the delivery of the things that we do as a department is absolutely a priority for me.

With the second SFI window set to open next week, we've got all you need to know about making an application.

It will vary from farm to farm because it depends on what you're already doing on your farm and what the current setup of your farm is like in the first place.

A reminder, new episodes of the Ag show drop every Wednesday at midday.

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

You can not only listen to us every week, but you can also watch our faces too.

If you really want to just subscribe to make sure you never miss an.

Episode and do get in touch.

We love hearing from you, especially if you've got any stories for our nonsense lobby at the start of the show, comment on any of our social posts or email agshowdb.org UK.

Now, what does government see when it looks at the future of British farming?

Well, we know farmers have plenty of questions like this right now.

So this week we've gone straight to the source.

That's right.

Farming Minister Stephen Morgan makes his Ag show debut to give us his take on the agricultural industry.

So let's get straight into it.

Stephen, very warm welcome to the Ag Show.

Now, you've been in post as Food and Farming Minister for a couple of months now.

Let's start with actually, how has that been?

Well, thanks, Charlotte.

It's really good to be on the show.

As we mark back British Farming Day, it's a real privilege to be the Minister responsible for food and farming and it's been a really busy few months.

Despite parliamentary recess in August, I wanted to adopt a farmer first approach to listening to what the sector are telling me.

And that's meant I've been getting out and about across the country, talking to farmers on farm, understanding the opportunities and challenges that the community faces.

You'll know that we published our farming Roadmap in June, which is about driving profitability, productivity and resilience in the sector with a 25 year plan.

And I've really enjoyed the chance I've had to meet with the farming community to set out some of the things that we're doing, but also listen to concerns and to take that back to Whitehall.

And I think, you know, like you just said, it's been incredibly busy for you these couple of months you've been in post.

And I'm sure most of us can relate to when you're starting a new role, what you think it's going to be like and then what it actually is like can sometimes be quite different, you know.

Has there been anything that's particularly surprised you since being in post?

Well, I come from a postal community, so in my city we would look to the sea for food and my dad is a recreational fisher, so I sort of learned from a young age the importance of ploughing the land or fishing the sea to put food on our table and so important for our livelihoods and local economies.

And I've seen that firsthand in terms of my farming visits and the engagement I have with the NFU and other organizations as well.

In terms of surprises, I mean, I've been really impressed by the pride and passion the sector have surprises, I think I would say the kind of element of resilience that I've seen over the summer, it's been extremely challenging with cost pressures, with the blue tongue virus, with drought in particular.

And I've been really struck by the resilience of farmers across our nation and really proud to have Supported the Prime Minister and the decision we made to increase funding through the SFI program in August to respond to some of those challenges.

And talking about challenges, Stephen, we've heard Angela Riegel, the Secretary of State, stating farming must be treated as a national security priority, along with defence and energy.

Obviously you're from Portsmouth, so that's a big defence area as well.

That feels like quite a significant statement to be making about farming.

Yeah, I think.

I think you're right and really pleased to be working with Angela.

Obviously she previously had my responsibility in the department.

She's gone away, worked on national security and government and come back and has brought that experience with her.

And I think these are issues that are really live in light of some of the challenges that we've seen over the summer around drought.

And we're really mindful of the impact of the Middle east conflict on the sector as well.

But working through now what that means.

Obviously in our manifesto we said food security is national security, but making sure we are really clear what that means in terms of the delivery of the things that we do as a department is absolutely a priority for me.

What does it mean in practice for farmers?

Are they going to see a change in approach from government in terms of how farming is perceived and treated?

So we obviously published our farming roadmap back in June of this year, and alongside that we now have the Farming and Food Partnership.

And I think that sort of collaboration is absolutely vital to work with the sector on the things that we want to achieve over the next 25 years.

You all know the Prime Minister is keen to have a 10 year plan and we'll be working through the detail of that later this year.

And certainly when the Prime Minister met with the farming community down in the southwest, that was a very clear intention of him to work with the sector to deliver the change that he wants to see, with a big focus on food security and all the issues that we've been discussing in the department.

So I'd say sort of watch this space, but really keen to work with the sector to bring that about.

And also Angela Regal's been talking about a third of farmers are making no profit.

I'm sure that's something that is at the forefront of government's mind.

But what plans do you have to help change that?

Because that is a real challenge for farmers right now, making money.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

And obviously we've responded to Manette Batter's profitability review when we published the farming roadmap.

Profitability are huge issues.

I Absolutely appreciate that.

And that's why I think the resilience piece is also really important.

What we announced over the summer, obviously 65 million to support farmers around the drought issues.

One of the key messages I've heard is the importance of getting the planning system right to unlock the kind of investment that we need to see in the farming community as well.

And I've taken away lots of things from the visits that I've been doing and really looking forward to working with the sector on delivering those things that we've picked up on in the last few weeks and months.

Just picking up on that quickly.

We cover the livestock and the arable sectors.

Just what's your message to them in terms of the importance they provide to food security?

Yeah, so obviously provide a significant role.

And through the Partnership board, you'll know that we've got sector growth plans and we're working through the detail of those as we speak and working in partnership via the Partnership board, working with the sector.

We absolutely want to build a resilient and profitable sector.

Obviously the roadmap sort of sets out the direction of travel on that and there are sort of practical actions that we will take to drive that change.

But working with the sector and in partnership to deliver on that vision that we set out on the roadmap is absolutely a priority in my life.

I think we could maybe part the policy for a little bit because I suspect our listeners probably want to know a bit more about you, Stephen, and the person behind the title of Food and Farming Minister.

So could we do some quick fire questions?

I want to know what your favourite thing is about British farming.

Gosh.

I think it's probably going back to what I was saying earlier, which is I've just been really struck by the passion that farmers have.

I always like the fact that people say their name and they say how long they've been farming for.

And I think that just shows you how proud the community is and it's a real privilege to work with the community on some of the issues and challenges that we are facing.

Yeah.

And I know you're.

Well, I hope you're an avid listener of, of this very podcast.

So could I press you for your favorite episode of the Ag Show?

Well, thank you for doing these podcasts.

I think it's really good that we have these opportunities to share ideas and views and to hear people's input.

I was looking through the range of people that you've interviewed yesterday and I've been really surprised and impressed by that.

So please keep going and Continue to do what you're doing.

Correct answer, Stephen, I'll give you that tenor later on.

I mean, obviously you've been engaging with a lot of farmers recently and, you know, I'd be keen to know what.

What you've learned from farmers that, that maybe should be taught in schools.

Because obviously education is a really important part of this whole piece, isn't it?

Yeah, really good question.

So I come to the department with an interest in school food.

So when I was in the Department for Education, I was responsible for breakfast clubs, free school meals and early education.

So we've been really impressed by some of the work that's gone on around the school food standards.

And I think it's really important that children learn about where their food come from.

I think that's absolutely vital.

So that what the government's doing in terms of adapting the curriculum and looking at school food standards is absolutely vital.

And you just see children's eyes light up when they learn where potatoes have come from.

All the things that are on their dinner plate.

And the connection with farming, I think, is absolutely vital.

So I've been really impressed by seeing some of that firsthand.

But also one of the best parts of my visit is getting to speak to young farmers and seeing what their interests are and what their ambitions are for their future in farming.

Yeah, I think I'm pleased you said that.

I think education, you know, getting farming into the curriculum is so, so important for the longevity of the sector and I guess importantly around that understanding or building that understanding of the kind of the standards that British farming is working to which, you know, are world leading, but we're in an increasingly global and increasingly volatile global market, so there's, there's more competition there for our British farmers.

How do you think the sector can stay competitive against that global market landscape?

And how, you know, how will your government ensure that trade deals don't undercut and undermine British farming?

Yes, obviously, very live discussions, you'll know that we're working really closely on a reset with the European Union.

And very much in terms of the trade deals that we've been developing so far, we want to protect farmers interests.

That's absolutely vital.

And more broadly, see the huge value of exports, and that's why sort of hearing concerns and issues that feed into those discussions is vital.

And obviously a big part of our roadmap is about investment and delivering for the future of farming and unlocking the opportunity that that exists in removing some of those barriers around planning and investment is absolutely the sort of conversations we're having in the department and the conversations I'm having with the sector to bring up the change that we need.

I mean, farming is a long term business, it's not a short term kind of operation.

And many, I think would probably say that that confidence for the future and that confidence to invest has been tested in recent years.

We've had a lot of policy change, we've had shifting support schemes.

Even the weather causes a lot of uncertain.

What assurances can you give to our farmers that, you know, support from government around investment and having that practical policy backing will be there for our farmers for the long term?

Well, I think the roadmap is a good example of that.

You know, no government, I think, since the Second World War has published a 25 year plan for the sector.

Alongside that, obviously our practical actions over that lifetime to deliver on the change that we need.

But you also know the government have allocated 11.8 billion investment in farming and farming and food production over the lifetime of this Parliament.

So money is going in, which I think is really important.

We've got the SFI schemes as well, the collaboration fund as well.

And I think what the message I've heard from the agricultural shows that I visited, from the visits on farm that I've done, is that bringing certainty and clarity to the sector in order for the sector to invest is key.

And I think that's why the roadmap has been a popular document.

The test will be in the pudding and we need to now make sure that we deliver on that.

Working with the sector just to pick up off that.

Stephen, sorry, because my producer's probably going to be scared that I'm going slightly off script.

But in the last 10 years we've had six different prime ministers and there's been a lot of volatility in politics.

So farmers have been engaging with lots of different people within government, two different parties.

How can you build that reassurance with them that this government is here to properly support them and see through the changes we're seeing in this industry at the moment.

Yeah.

And you appreciate that I have no say in terms of who is in post and I'm absolutely delighted to be doing so and having this responsibility.

I hope I'm in the role for quite some time, but I do appreciate the sort of change and the impact that it has on others and that's why it's so important to build long term trusted relationships with the sector and why I've invested so heavily in the meetings and engagement that I've been having and the visits that I've been doing, I won't always have the answers here in Whitehall.

And that's why getting out and about and engaging with the sector is absolutely vital.

So I can make sure I'm making decisions which are evidence based and based on good quality engagement with the secretary.

And that's absolutely my reassurance I can give you today.

And thinking about that evidence base, that's something that AHDB hopefully helps government quite a lot with.

What role do you see us here at AHDB playing in helping you to deliver in supporting farmers in the long term?

Well, thank you.

And I think it's really important we do as much as we possibly can to tell the story of what farmers are doing day in, day out.

And obviously your members will have lots of views and ideas.

And this podcast is a good way of getting information out and also engaging with the sector.

So please keep that up.

I think we need to make sure that there is a national conversation about the value of British farming and that's why it's been so good to sort of join you today as we mark back British farming this week.

Yeah, keep up the good work.

And I think certainly the engagement that you have with your members is absolutely vital and make sure that we're alive to the issues and challenges that the sector is facing.

I think that's all we've got time for on the tough questions now.

So back to finish off with some quick fire ones from me, if you don't mind.

So obviously you were from a coastal town.

Did you know many farmers before you took on the role?

So, grew up in a.

Obviously an urban area, but I've always been interested in nature and the environment and small garden at home where I grew up.

So my family were always really keen to get me out into the countryside and to farm.

So fondly remember visiting farms in the wider area that I live in.

Growing up.

And obviously since being appointed, been really keen to engage with the sector as much as I possibly can.

And so have you ever driven a tractor?

I haven't yet.

So if there's an offer on its way, I'd be delighted to accept that invitation.

There you go, Hannah.

Might have to get him on your farm.

Come and get in the tractor.

You'd be more than welcome, Stephen.

We'll get you on the John Deere.

No, same here.

If you'd prefer a Massey over a John Deere, then you can come and have a go.

We'll leave you to decide which one is your favourite.

And I know that these quick fire questions technically aren't scorable, but what you answer to this one I am very much going to judge you on.

So there is no, no pressure at all.

But you know, think very carefully.

What's your ideal roast dinner?

So I'm a big fan of chicken.

The poultry sector I'm sure we'll be very happy about.

I'm also a big fan of Yorkshire pudding and I mean, I'd have a Yorkshire pudding on my Christmas dinner, which I think probably is quite controversial and may have just lost me some votes.

That's, you know, gone up in my estimation, the chicken might have gone down, bearing in mind we're red meat and dairy here at hdb.

But you know, is there a pig in blanket on a roast?

Are you open to that outside of Christmas?

If I can be your friend again?

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely would have that on my plate as well.

Fab.

Okay, well, I mean, maybe if you invite us over for a roast dinner, you can get an extra point back so, you know, set the table for an extra four people and we'll be there on Sunday.

All right.

So on that bombshell that you know, chicken.

Oh, I don't know about that.

That is all we have got time for with you, Stephen, but thank you so much for joining us.

We've loved having you on.

You are welcome back anytime.

Great.

Thanks for your questions and hopefully can come back sometime soon.

You're listening to the Ag show and we've just been speaking with the farming minister today and Charlotte and Hannah.

I thought it was quite refreshing actually that he couldn't help but be honest about what his favourite Sunday roast is because we know that he knows that red meat and dairy are very important parts of what we do, along with cereals and seeds, of course, and chicken isn't.

It's a funny looking red meat.

But you know, I will say a point was taken off in my estimations of him for that answer.

But he did get a couple back for the pigs and blankets and Yorkshire puddings.

And I know we're obviously having a little, little poke a little jest there, but it was refreshing listeners.

They were the ones that reached out to us and wanted to come on the show and they were very open to the types of questions we could ask.

So I will say it was great to have him on.

He was very nice to talk to and hopefully we'll have him back again soon.

Yeah, excited to see what he does in the role.

Obviously he's only what, a month or so in now, so we wish him all the best and hopefully some positive changes come.

Yeah and he said he would come back on so we'll certainly see if anyone's got any questions they might want us to put to him if we get him on in a few months time.

Agshowdb.orguk if you've got anything that you think would be great to put towards him or comment on any of dar our socials.

Now let's go to our news picks.

So I'm going to start here with Hannah.

What have you got for us?

Han so this is something from our own offerings.

It's probably not news but I thought it was worth flagging given the summer that we've had.

So obviously we've seen one of the toughest grazing seasons in recent years this summer with the drought and many people have been dealing with poor grass growth rates and tighter feed supplies as a result of that.

But we've got some events and webinars and information that hopefully will help with grassland management decisions going into autumn and winter.

We recently teamed up with James Daniel from Precision Grazing and he ran a webinar looking at practical drought recovery strategies and this can be restoring paddocks when rain returns, to prioritizing livestock and avoiding some of the common pitfalls that can slow recovery in growth rates.

If you missed that live session, the recordings is now on YouTube to catch up on and there's more to come.

So James will be back on the 8th of October for a follow up webinar focused on autumn and winter management, including feed planning, feed forage stocks and making sure you're in the best possible position for spring grazing next year.

And we'll link to those resources in the show notes.

So a bit of forage based news there, Charlotte.

What have you been reading?

Course I'm going back to food, you know me.

So I've been reading how Tesco's is stepping up its response to growing concerns around ultra processed foods, announcing it's going to remove 114 ingredients from its own brand ranges as part of a major UPF clampdown.

Now this is according to the grocer.

The supermarket is saying that the move is designed to simplify recipes and give shoppers greater confidence in what they're buying and what is actually in their food.

Now we have seen this in other retail retailers too.

I'm thinking of the MS's only range and that was launched last year and you might have seen it whether that's in store or online.

And it's where you've got the packaging with the list of ingredients shown on the front, very paired back.

And all of this comes as concerns around ultra processed foods continues to grow.

And the FSA has got a piece of research which shows that they are now one of the biggest nutrition issues on consumers minds.

Now it is something that we are very aware care of at hdb.

So while there are lots of changes occurring and many of those are being aimed at things such as confectionery cakes and crisps, it is something that we are monitoring because there is the potential for it to be impacting on our sectors, particularly when it comes to red meat and dairy.

Now we've written about this previously.

I'll make sure that our article on UPFS is linked in our show notes.

But also watch this space.

It's certainly something that we are keeping an eye on.

Thanks, Hannah.

Thanks Charlotte.

We'll be talking about SFI next.

Now, the second SFI application window is about to open and for many farmers the big question is whether the numbers stack up.

Earlier this year we launched a new SFI cost benefit tool that lets farmers compare the financial impact of different actions on their own businesses.

We previously spoke to Barnes Edwards, a garlic farmer down in the Isle of Wight.

He uses livestock in the rotation and he told us how he'd got on using it.

The really good thing about it is.

It's bringing it into a platform that's easy to understand, easy to model and.

Then easy to see what the effect of a cocktail of options might mean.

For you, sort of commercially.

Yeah, it wasn't highlighting anything revelatory in and around SFI or anything like that, but it's just bringing it together in.

That way that makes it useful.

Joining us to explain how it works and what farmers should be thinking about before applications open is our colleague, AHDB senior economist Amandeep Kaupulwao.

First things first then, Amandeep, what do farmers need to know about this new SFI application window?

The first thing is that it's expected to open on 22nd September and it will be open to all eligible landowners farmers this time around.

So it's a typical eligibility criteria which you can look on the SFI guidance.

I think we'll put the link in the show notes so you can look in there.

And Also for window two, the budget was increased by 50 million as announced on sort of like mid mid August.

So originally it was 180 million, but I was taking that up to 230 million.

So that should hopefully go a bit, go a bit further this time around.

Also, as part of that package for when the budget increase was announced, there's, you know, there's obviously more conditions announced that makes it easy for farmers that, you know, if you are doing some SF actions, the government said they're aware of what the kind of conditions you've had over the summer.

There'll be a bit more leeway meeting that criteria.

I guess one of the biggest questions that, you know, we hear about SFIs, will it actually pay on farm?

Will the SFI tool help answer that?

Could you just talk us through how it works?

Yeah.

So the key kind of USP of this tool, the thing that it does, which you can't really find anywhere else, is that it factors in the costs involved in doing the actions.

And that's the key bit, really, because you can look at the payment rates and then you can see how they're going to, you know, equate through how much area you put in and that gives you income.

But then really, they've all got cost involved and it's knowing that, getting that realistic, realistic sort of information about how much income you're actually going to get from this payment rates, that's like the key here really, because say we take an action, for example, the payment rates £200 per hectare, but the costs are going to take.

The costs are £150 per hectare.

Right.

Compare that with another action that's probably the payment rates, half of that, £100 per day, but the costs are only £20 per hectare.

So you see the last one, you're getting 80 quid overall compared with 50.

So it's kind of looking at that nuance, this thing overall, how much am I going to get from each action?

Which one's more worth my while on my farm?

So it's bringing it back right down to the farm level.

Farmers can put in their own figures and it will give them a more detailed view specific to their enterprise.

Can you just tell us what information farmers need exactly for them to get started to use the tool?

Yeah.

So behind if, for example, before you start, you've got an idea of, you've got your maps of your farm, you know what kind of areas you're looking at, areas of your fields, etc.

And if you have done some costing information, you've got like a rough idea of how much it cost you to do, do certain things that would be quite helpful as well, because when you go into the tool the first thing you do is like, you can filter or like look search for different actions that you might be interested in and then you can get further info on these because we've got links to the DEFRA website for the guidance notes.

So you can get, you know, a bit more of a rounded picture of what exactly that involves how it's going to fit in with your farm.

The next step then is sort of putting those costs in.

So you take, it takes you to the cost page where we've got them pre populated with default costs that we have worked out based on industry averages and just start talking with those contractors, etc.

And you can look at those costs and we've been quite transparent with them as well.

So you get a breakdown of what actually each of those costs involve.

So, so if we take for example cover crop action, you'll get like a breakdown of how much we put down for seed establishment, destruction of the COVID crop.

And you can just compare your numbers.

If there's something in there that you think, oh, actually I think I can get it cheaper than that, or mine might cost a bit more, make that adjustment.

Then you can overwrite our figures with your own number to make it more accurate for you and then get that more realistic figure for your farm.

After you've done those kind of different costs for the different actions you've chosen, you get a summary of all the actions you've chosen over the three years to see which you know how much overall you most likely to get.

And then you can also get a per action so you can see which one makes you the most money if you decide to go for it.

And you can adjust that as you speak because you can save different scenarios and then compare different scenarios.

If you save like a certain set of results against another one, you can download them, maybe share them with your consultant or like line manager or whoever you know, speak to in those kind of agronomist in terms of that respect.

We've also got handy features, terms of obviously there's a hundred thousand pound cap in place if you go over that limit.

The tool will show you you've reached the limit now, so rethink what you're doing here.

And we've also got other kind of interesting nuances in there for some functionality with actions where the costs vary if you're doing it on productive land or non productive land, or if you're doing it on grassland or arable, if you're doing rotational static actions.

So it's all these different things you can think about and really make a really well informed decision about what you want to do.

Amandeep Just thinking about those actions, are there any that tend to offer particularly strong returns?

It'll be different for each farm.

It's quite individual to business and we've kind of seen that from the stacking analysis that we've done on SFI using our HDB model farms, because that's one of the clear messages that comes out from there is that it will vary from farm to farm because it depends on what you're already doing on your farm and what the current setup of your farm is like in the first place.

So there might be some actions you might be doing already, in which case it's a bit of a a no brainer to select that action because you'll just get paid for it now.

Or might be some actions which you can do quite relatively easily on your farm without incurring any extra cost or like minimal cost because just the way it's set up so it's like minimal disruption but for those which might require more change, they might require more cost.

So it kind of depends from situation to situation, farm to farm.

So just out of interest, what do tend to be the most common actions that people apply for?

Well, initially, before SFY 26 information was announced and before that opened, traditionally the herbal aids were very popular as well with the management plans like the soil assessment, nutrient management plans, et cetera.

But for SFI 26 there was a bit of an overhaul and some loss of actions were taken out in terms of there was like a review of whether value for money or not.

And those management plans did go out for SFY 26 but some actions have remained such hedgerows.

One of the hedgerows has still remained, so that's still fairly popular.

And from information we got from the June window, the application window that started at the end of June, the most popular actions from there were managing grassland with very low nutrient inputs, the hedgerows.

As we've said before, a haymaking supplement, herbal aids were still quite popular there and also an interesting one, managing ponds.

So they're the top five from June window.

It'll be interesting to see if they hold their ground for the September application window.

If we see new actions hit the mix in the Amandeep Just thinking as.

Well, if someone's already sort of taking part in any schemes, is there any issues with overlaps?

And you know, before you couldn't apply to be part of SFI if you were already sort of in an agreement, is that still the case?

You can't have more than one agreement.

They're not going to pay you for doing the same thing twice.

So that's in operation.

But what is different this time round is that previously, for example, if you're in another agrivironmental scheme, for example, we'll just take the example.

What's going to happen now?

There's people now that are in SFI 23, their agreements are going to be coming to an end sort of around now.

Ish.

And then also you've got countryside stewardship higher tier, the legacy agreement of those, and also countryside stewardship mid tier and some of the environmental land stewardship schemes as well.

So countryside stewardship, some agreements will be ending in December and like I said, some of the SFI 23 months will be expiring of the autumn as well.

So it kind of does.

Initially, if you were in an agreement, you couldn't apply for any new like SFI for example, until that had actually come to a physical end like that you had gone past that date or is that the end of the day?

But then you can imagine that that caused a bit of anxiety for the farmer.

For example, we now have this pent up demand for this window opening because people have been waiting for it for ages and you know, we need that source of income.

So there's that kind of fear that, oh, I might miss out because of the budget, might be gone before I actually get a chance to apply.

So you know, you've got, you know, your agreement won't start until after your initial, the one you're currently in ends, but you can at least apply and get everything ready to start once that agreement does end.

So that's, that's a source of reassurance for those farmers in those agreements.

Yeah.

Definitely offers a little bit more flexibility, doesn't it?

If people are looking to apply, if there are listeners that are considering applying for this new wave of SFI but they're not sure if it's kind of right for their system.

What advice would you give anyone in that situation?

I'd say just think carefully about how you can maximize every hectare on your farm.

Start planning obviously, and see what you can get from different parts of your farm because there's, as we know, there's lots of challenges.

You talk about this every week is a challenge we're seeing with the weather with Blue Tongue at the moment.

There's lots of things on Farmer's Place at the moment and it's about how can you, you know, how can, you know, the SFI can act as a sort of buffer, sort of safety cushion in that respect.

A bit like the bps when it was, you know, still before the reductions took place.

That's what that was meant to be like a security cushion or a security blanket in terms of buffering, the sort of externalities and the sort of pressures of that farmers might face.

SFI is a new version of that.

It's not as.

It's not as a big a cushion as it, as the bps, obviously, but it's still a cushion nonetheless.

So how can you make it work for you?

Because you can, if you think about it carefully, you can get some, you know, it will, it will stabilize your income to some extent if you go about it the right way.

So to see how you can make it work the best it can for you.

Have you had any feedback on the tool?

Tool, yes, we've had really, really strong engagement.

Those who know about the tool have been not using it really, you know, been really engaged with it and getting really good use from it and value from it.

And what we've done, obviously pharma testing is a big part of when we developed this.

We did it with farmers to make sure we, you know, answering their needs, et cetera.

And we have made further improvements to the tools.

We did some updates earlier sort of end of August and as in making it more.

Making certain things features more visible, you know, helping give more information on supplementary actions, for example, so more clearer to see are we going to continue doing that?

Because the whole point why we made this tool was make life easier for farmers and help them navigate this whole maze of agri environment schemes, SFI, etc.

So we want to carry on doing that going forward.

It's about getting that feedback from farmers.

We want to make this tool even better so it helps them out.

And also looking out to SFI27, for example, we've already started development in place, which makes the whole navigation even easier than it is at the moment.

So we had lots of comments saying how easy it is to use, but we're going to take that whole new level getting read for SFI 27 so it's even more valuable for our levy payers and farmers going forward.

Yeah, I think the complexity of the system has been a barrier for quite a lot of people to enter.

I know.

You know, at home, we haven't gone into sfi, we've got agreements, countryside stewardship agreements, but a part of it's just been, you know, the complexity of it.

So hopefully a tool like this, I mean, I'll be telling Andy to go and look at it for sure to help his decision making.

So, yeah, thank you for all your work on this, Amandeep, because it's really important.

So for anyone that is considering sfi, you're still not quite sure whether it's right for you, please go and use Amandeep's new tool.

We've got all the links to the resources you need and the tool itself in the show notes.

So, gang, that's about it then for another episode, finishing there with Amandeep, talking about sfi.

But obviously, top of the show, we had Farming Minister Stephen Morgan with us.

Do you think we can get him for a bit of nonsense lobbying at the start of the show?

That's what we did with Amandeep this week.

Yeah, maybe next time.

We have to be careful with lobbying, but, yeah, I'm sure we can get him back on.

Hopefully we didn't scare him off.

Is he the next person to be attempting a cottage cheat cheese bread, do we think, Hannah?

I didn't ask that.

Yeah, possibly.

I feel like this recipe.

Recipe is a strong word.

I feel like this has been egged up too much.

There's no eggs in it, Hannah.

Oh, yeah, true.

Or chicken.

You're doing a live demo cookery demonstration in HQ next week, aren't you, Hannah?

That's what Denise is for.

You better send her the recipe.

Yeah, Try this one.

It's so complicated.

You just seem to have changed since Mike Wilkins was on the show.

You know, with Bake off coming back and, yeah, it's just cottage cheese bread this, cottage cheese bread that.

Next year's Bake off.

That's what she's warming up for.

If that's my entry, God help us all.

If people out there would like to get in touch with the Show.

Ag Show.

HDB.org UK is the email address.

Hannah, Charlotte, Phil, it's been a pleasure as always, but until next week, I'll see you later.

Bye.

See you next week.

Go have a rest, Martin, you need it after that.

Sam.