Small-batch chasers and SOTL, it's time to give a woop woop to Drunk Chicken Cigars. This woman-owned, Black-owned boutique cigar company is headquartered in the District of Columbia. Hear how business professor Dr. Desiree Sylver turned a limited-run cigar hobby into a growing cigar business. The founder and CEO sat down with Boveda's Rob Gagner at PCA.

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This is Box Press.

(upbeat music)

Welcome to another episode of Box Press.

I'm your host, Rob Gagner.

I'm at the PCA 2022 show,

and I'm sitting down with Desiree Sylver

from Drunk Chicken Cigars.

Desiree, thank you for joining me.

- Ah, thank you for having me. - Your brand

caught me off guard.

I was following somebody who was smoking a lot of cigars,

and I saw this band, it was actually the Maduro,

which is blue and it has silver and it has a chicken on it,

and I said, "Who would put a chicken on a cigar band?"

(Desiree laughing)

And then on top of it, what's the name of this?

So I quick, you know, Chicken Cigar, Googled,

I don't have, you know, I don't know what it is.

Drunk Chicken came up.

I was like, "Oh my gosh, what kind of like creative mind

(Desiree laughs)

decided to go down this rabbit hole

of naming all the cigars after chickens?

Where did the name even start as an idea?"

- So, I love chickens. (chuckles) I have chickens as pets.

- [Rob] Okay.

- And so I live in the Washington DC area,

only about seven miles out.

And my friends come over, and they see all my chickens,

and "Are you crazy girl?

What are you doing?" - How many chickens

do you have?

- On a good day, 30.

Right now, we're probably about 25.

We have animals that come and take them

because we free range our chickens.

- Awesome. - Yeah, so.

- I mean, not that they come and take them,

but they're free range, right? - Yeah, they're free range.

- Do whatever they want. - They're free, yeah.

And then at night we lock them up,

and at six or seven o'clock in the morning,

whenever I wake up, I let them out,

and they go right back when it gets dusk, and I lock it, so.

But sometimes prey get them. So, we're about 25 right now.

And we named them all. (chuckles)

- [Rob] Yeah.

- And, I mean, I love chicken.

I grew up...

Every summer, my mom's from Jamaica, threw me out there.

Go hang out in the chicken farm and the cow farm

and the goat farm, running around barefooted out there.

- [Rob] So you're a farm girl?

- I wouldn't necessarily say that,

but I think that I love that

more than anything in life, the animals.

They don't talk back. (chuckles)

- You're connected to animals.

- [Desiree] I am.

- My wife is connected to animals as well.

Like that actually is energizing to her.

She always said, "I always have to have a cat or a dog."

Like that's just,

"Before you decide to marry me, that's a stipulation."

And that's just good to know, right?

Because that energizes her. That calms her down.

So it sounds like your chicken hobby

has really just been a passion project from day one.

- [Desiree] Yes, yes.

- And now, do you do anything special with the chickens

other than raise them?

Because some people bring them to shows and all that,

the state fair and all that?

- No, I just want them to live a good life.

We do collect the eggs.

I love to buy chickens based on the color of the eggs

that they lay.

Blue eggs, green eggs, pink eggs.

- Pink?!

- Pink, yes. I get a lot of pink eggs.

- Interesting.

- I only have-

- You're talking about the shell, right?

- Yes, the shell.

- Not the yolk, right? - Yeah, just the...

- They all the same inside. Just like hair color almost.

I have some ducks,

was trying to get a goat before COVID happened,

and then when COVID happened,

the lady that was selling me the goat said,

"No, we look like we may have a food shortage.

I'm gonna keep my goat," so I didn't get one.

I had a couple dogs,

one passed away. - Why did you want a goat?

- [Desiree] Huh?

- Why did you want a goat?

- Oh, I just like animals.

- You just like animals?

- Yeah! - It wasn't like,

you know, sometimes people are like,

"I need the goat to kind of eat the grass

or to eat this." - No.

No, I just wanted the goat to hang out.

- Cool.

- I think they're cool.

Some of the goats are fainting goats.

I wanted a fainting goat

that you scare them me. - Yeah. (chuckles)

They go like.

- They fall over. - Yeah. (laughs)

- Oh, that's great.

- But, yeah, I just like animals.

They're free. They're, you know, no judgment.

They hang out with you, you pet them. They cuddle with you.

What's better in life?

- [Rob] Right. So, do you have dogs, cats in the house?

- Dogs.

Well, my dog passed away

recently. - Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

- Yeah, I had that little guy for a long time.

But we are in the process of considering moving,

so we are not buying any new animals right now

until we decide where are we gonna move,

what are we gonna do?

- I wouldn't have thought of that.

But that's like a whole new moving process

because now you have livestock to move.

It's not just furniture and a U-Haul.

It's furniture, U-Haul,

and a livestock truck. - My chickens.

- Yeah, right. (Desiree laughing)

- Yeah. - That's amazing.

- Yeah, so, but as soon as we decide, like, "Are we staying?

Are we moving?" how long we're going,

whatever we're gonna do,

we're just trying to think about our second phase in life.

And a lot of the second phase in life

is because of the cigars right now.

- Really?!

- [Desiree] Yeah.

- So you're thinking of moving out of state or in state?

- Out of state. More so Florida, closer to our rollers.

My husband recently retired, so he can move wherever.

I work remote, I can go wherever.

So we're just trying, you know,

figure out our second stage of life right now.

- That's awesome!

- Yeah. And the kids are grown.

- Really? How old are your kids?

- 19 And 17.

The 17-year-old graduates from high school

and gets a AA this year.

- 17, graduating from high school?

- And getting her AA at the same time.

- Smart kid!

- And my 19-year-old did the same thing

when she graduated, so. - Wow!

Okay, so that's like the total opposite

of what technically the culture's doing right now.

Like I feel like most people who are younger

are going through high school

and then onto college or some sort of secondary

and then onto like experiencing their young adult life

and then like slowing down in their 30s to get married.

And then not having kids until they're in their 30s.

And it's like your kids are on the total opposite spectrum

of this like accelerated through school and onto the next.

- Well, they have a mom with a PhD who's,

I used to be a professor as well. (chuckles)

- Really?! - Yeah.

- A professor of what?

- I used to teach at University of Maryland

UMUC, Strayer University.

And I taught any contracting class, any business class,

any finance class.

- Wow. - Yeah,

so I have a Masters of Finance,

a PhD in Organizational Leadership,

a business PhD. - That's awesome.

So, did you homeschool your kids?

Is that why they're on the fast track?

Or like, just happens?

- I didn't homeschool, but education's very important.

So if they wanna do extracurricular activities,

homework came first.

And then mommy homework, they always had mommy homework.

(Rob laughing)

I always bought workbooks, three to four grades advanced.

So I sat down, I taught them.

They knew how to spell their name before they were two,

both of them.

- [Rob] Wow!

- And, to me, it's very important

to sit down with your kids,

figure out where they are in their learning process

and teach them at their pace.

- That is so true because I'm experiencing that

with my small family.

I have a one-and-a half-year-old daughter,

and I just had a son who's three weeks old,

and my daughter was like, sign language, and she's talking.

And it's like, I gotta keep feeding that need to like-

- [Desiree] Get workbooks.

- [Rob] Right.

- And they love it when they're writing and crayoning.

And even if they don't understand it,

just have it in front of them

and then sit down for two seconds

and just go through it with them,

and you'll be surprised how much they pick up.

- That's good advice.

The time spent with the child during that development stage

is so important to their development.

- Yeah. And teaching them their name.

Find a song that they love and sing it with their name.

- We got the "Wheels on the Bus." She'll do that.

She'll do the "Wheels on the Bus" every once in a while.

- Yeah, mine was

♪ S, Y, D, N, E, Y ♪

♪ F, O, U, S, E ♪

(Desiree laughing)

- That's an advanced one. - Yeah, so that's how

I taught her how to spell her name.

So when she went to school, she knew how to spell her name.

She knew her first and her last name.

- [Rob] That is awesome!

- She sang it, but she couldn't do it without singing it,

but she develops it.

So teach them where they are.

- I don't know the word for it,

but when you use a song or something

to help you spell something, there's a term for it.

But that's brilliant.

- Help you spell, help you learn. Do crazy sayings.

When I was teaching kids in college,

"Okay, you can't remember this?"

Come up with the craziest saying

and one letter for each thing

that you're trying- - Yeah, some sort of-

- to remember. - acronym and a phrase.

- It helps.

- Yeah, it does.

- Yeah, I'm that kooky person that believes in education,

believes in bettering yourself.

And education does not necessarily equate to college.

- Right. No, yeah, exactly.

- Yeah, so I never forced my kids to go to college.

I forced them to learn.

- That's smart.

- [Desiree] Yeah.

- There's a difference there.

- Yeah.

And if they want to go to college,

what are you going to college for?

Figure that out.

And what is it that you're trying to do?

And do you need a degree for that? If so, how long?

- Right. - Yeah.

- That's awesome. Your kids are, they're gonna be set.

They got you guiding them.

- [Desiree] They're amazing kids. I love them.

- I love that.

- [Desiree] Yeah.

- So, okay, (Desiree laughs)

I didn't even know all the professor stuff.

(Desiree laughs)

So, what made you switch over to this cigar stuff?

- I haven't switched, I just add it in into my life.

- So, you're still a professor?

- I will tell you, I'm taking more of a hiatus.

So, but if I ever wanna be a professor, it is always there.

- Okay, so do you have a full-time job right now?

- I do.

- What is it in?

(Desiree giggles)

- I'm the program manager

for the exchanges at NASA.

- NASA?! I love it!

- Yeah, I never tell anybody that.

So it's really - Really?!

- one of the first times I ever told anybody.

- Do you not want anyone to know about that?

- It's not that.

It's just that always people go, "NASA?"

and they go...

Omar is at NASA.

- Oh, yeah. - And, yes,

so it's just a coincidence

because I didn't even know Omar

when he was at NASA. - Yeah, you don't wanna steal

his thunder.

- No, because that's what he does.

That's how he's advertised.

You know, and I don't want- - Yeah, that's not your story,

right? - Right.

- Okay. - Yeah, so.

But I think Omar does amazing things,

and so I don't wanna steal that away from what he's doing.

- Well, that's really humble of you to say,

so I appreciate that.

That's super nice,

because we are all here based on our own journey.

You're here based on your own journey.

And so, you're absolutely right.

You don't wanna mimic anyone to try to take their story away

and make it less.

- Right. And Omar does amazing things.

He has amazing cigars. And that's his thing, so.

- He actually came to Minnesota and visited me,

and I had a ball hanging out with him.

He's a blast. He knows how to have a good time.

He's a great guy. - Yes, he does.

- But on your side of things,

you decided to launch Drunk Chicken Cigars.

Why? What's the why?

Like what makes somebody wanna just say,

"I wanna make my own cigar?"

- They're crazy.

(both laughing)

- [Rob] It's not easy.

- No, it's not easy.

And I didn't expect to, didn't want to, was never my goal.

Rico, which is my husband,

we decided to make cigars for ourselves

because we both smoke cigars.

And our running joke was, "All right, well,

we can only afford one of us smoking today,

so which one gets to smoke?"

Because we were both smoking cigars.

And cigars can be an expensive habit

when I'm smoking two or three,

he's smoking two or three or four,

or whatever it is that day.

And so that was our joke.

And when we stumbled into,

ran upon the rollers that we work with today,

they were so amazing.

Oh, we can make anything you want.

We were just making a cigar that we liked,

that we could enjoy, there were a variety of them.

And we bought a....

We blended these five with the rollers based on,

he likes the DCO.

It was number one.

The Mother Clucker was great with red wine.

That was number two. Number three was the Fat Hen.

It was like that shorty Nub.

I wanted to smoke it at work 45 minutes.

Number three was Living the Dream because that's like,

it's so smooth, it's so easy, I can smoke it anytime.

And Sweet Dreams was my morning or afternoon delight.

- That's what we're smoking now, Sweet Dream.

- Exactly.

So that's why, and we ordered 100 of them,

and we numbered them one, two, three, four, five,

so we know how to buy them again.

- Yeah.

So you're literally just building out a portfolio

for you to smoke on a regular basis

that wasn't gonna break the bank.

- [Desiree] Right.

- Brilliant.

- And when we started going to lounges, our friends were,

"What are you smokin'? What's that number one?"

"Oh, just some cigars we made, here have one."

"Oh, I love this cigar. You should sell it."

And we heard it so much that we started investigating.

We went to our so our lounge-

- You're just answering kind of like, not really the demand,

but like the natural occurrence of people being like,

"Oh, this was good. Where can I get it again?"

- Exactly. "I want one of those, sell me one."

"Sell you one? We made 100. (chuckles)

I mean, here have it."

- I don't have any to sell.

This is my inventory for the month.

- Yes, so we went to our local lounge and said,

"Hey, could you sell this?"

They smoked it and said, "Yeah, we love it,

but what is this band?" - That's powerful right there.

So if you give it to a lounge owner, they smoke it,

and they think it's good enough to go on the shelf.

I mean it's hard to get shelf space.

- Yeah, but we didn't take one lounge owner.

Our friend's lounge owner,

I actually traveled for my job and was in Alabama

and didn't know this lounge owner from anybody else.

And I gave him a cigar.

I said, "I'm thinking about selling these,

what do you think?"

And he absolutely loved it.

He said, "I'll buy them, just you have to change the band."

So I heard the same thing again,

"Love it, but change the band."

- So, what was the band?

- Number one on a white piece of paper.

- Oh, yeah, so super like-

- Super, just so I know what I was smoking.

- Identify this, but there's no formality-

- Nothing.

- to the band.

- Nothing.

White piece of paper with a piece of tape on it

with a number one.

(both laughing)

- Yeah, you need to change the band if I'm gonna sell this,

or it's gonna go on the shelf unbanded.

- Right. So, looked into what the bands would cost.

Boom, bam, here I am. (chuckles)

- Isn't that so cool?

- It is.

But, I mean, if I would've put more thought into it,

because I took it as a hobby at first.

- [Rob] Right.

- And I went from a hobby into a full-blown business

that the two people that said that they would buy,

absolutely bought.

Flew to St. Thomas.

That same next day flew to St. Thomas

after I delivered the two,

got my third order in St. Thomas

and been rolling ever since.

And never put us a real business structure together.

- [Rob] What's hard about that?

- Now that I'm in full production,

trying to go back with ambassadors,

business structure together, thinking of it as a business

and getting people to change as you change.

And change, people don't like change.

Yeah, and then it's a lot,

it's hard when you don't have that structure

already in place.

Getting my bookkeeper, when I first got them on board,

he was just like, "What is this?"

(Rob chuckles)

- Wait, you have a degree in finance.

You taught finance, right?

- People that do hair always have the worst hair.

People that do nails have the worst (chuckles) nails.

People that know that...

But a lot of bookkeepers tell they have the worst book,

the worst tax situation.

Because when you do it yourself,

you don't wanna do it for yourself.

- Right.

Yeah, it's not like something that fulfills you.

You're like, "Okay, I gotta do the..."

It's like work.

I gotta work! - Right, it's your work, yeah.

And then on top of that, I remember I was selling by myself.

I was shipping, I was packaging, I was marketing,

I was, you know, on and on and on,

and by the time it got down to structure and finance,

it was just like, it'll get there eventually.

- Wow. - To catch up.

- So total opposite

of what all the business books teach us to do.

- [Desiree] Not even a business plan.

- Yeah! - Whose playing what?

- You didn't even have a business plan.

(Desiree laughing)

It was,

"Do you like this cigar? - Still don't.

- Could you sell it?" (Desiree laughing)

"Okay, I guess." That's interesting.

- [Desiree] Yeah.

- Wow.

- Business plan up here.

- So you're backing up (Desiree chuckling)

trying to take a bigger look at everything

and cleaning up the rough edges

of your entire hobby/business now.

- Yes. And it's been a big undertaking.

As of November last year,

that's all I've been really focusing on

because I have a great sales team,

"And you guys sell, I have a distributor,

you guys ship and receive,

and let me put the structure together."

And it's not easy.

- No,

- Because now You've gotta- - It's not easy.

- put on that like project manager/business

entrepreneurial hat.

- [Desiree] Yes.

- And stretch your brain in your mind.

So, what is the biggest thing right now

that you're stretching to learn

so that you can keep up with the growth of your business?

- So I look at my business and not where I am now,

about where I want to go.

So now it is always not current thought, it's future thought

and trying to make sure that I have accounted for that

with whatever structure I put in place.

- Sure.

So really what you're stretching yourself to do is pre-plan.

- Yes.

- Pre-plan what I wanna be in in the next...

And how far out are you looking? A year?

Two years?

- No, no, no.

I have 1-year, 5-year, 10-year,

20-year, and a 30-year plan.

- Sweet!

- Because I'm always- - So you're building out

that business plan as you go.

- Yes.

- Smart. - And I hope

that one of my kids, or if not both,

decide that they want to take over.

I have two girls, but both of them know every cigar,

every vitola.

Both of them know all the blends

because when I had shipping and receiving,

guess who was doing it? (laughing)

I would give them an invoice and say,

"Go package it up and ship it."

- It's a family business.

- [Desiree] Yeah.

- Do they enjoy it, or is it more of like,

"Oh, mom is sucking us in to her passion, and gosh,

when she asks us, 'Are you done with your homework?'

You're like, 'Ah, I don't know if I wanna tell you

if I'm done with my homework.'"

- That's my youngest. (chuckles)

- Yeah, really?

- It's a chore. She doesn't like the chores.

My oldest is like, "Okay."

Because I do give them payment, just like any other job.

I pay them. - Right.

Compensation. - Yeah, but my oldest

is like, roll up her sleeve, she's into it.

She asks me lots of questions.

- She sees the reward. - Have you thought about it?

Yeah. And I can see her taking over.

And, actually, um

I think that my youngest eventually will come around.

If she does, she does. If she doesn't, that's okay.

She has her own life. - No big deal, right?

- Yeah. - Yeah.

- You appreciate the help now.

- Yep.

- And she probably appreciates the money. (chuckles)

- Um, that, and I do...

It's value and hard work.

There's value in that because she's not gonna get,

no one's gonna get anything easy.

And I want that they see what I do,

they see how much effort I put into it.

So whatever they say, they not gonna say,

"Oh, my mom didn't show me how much work it's gonna be

when they get out there," because I did.

- You know what I think is funny, is like,

if you take the aspect of hard work,

it's hard work to get something,

you have to work hard for it to get the return,

I think it's also hard work to basically be lazy

or to try to get a handout.

If you actually took that energy that it would take

to try to make ends meet, or to try to just not,

to try to coast,

you would actually be doing something more productive.

- Absolutely.

- You know?

- Yes. - So no matter what it is,

it's hard work.

No matter what, as people, we want to work,

we wanna produce something.

- Actually, even I take that a step further

because if you're asking me, "Well, how did you do that?"

Well, I can tell you how,

and it's probably gonna stick in your brain

for about two minutes.

But if you go research how,

it's gonna stick in your brain a lot more

because you found more value in it, you've found more

than what I probably could tell you about it.

- Yeah, and then if you do it,

it's even more stuck in your brain

because it's like, "Now I have to do it."

- [Desiree] Yes.

- That's the way I always had to study.

It was like I had to get a partner sometimes,

and then I had to be like,

"Okay, this is this, and this is why it's this way,

and this is what this means."

Because then it was like,

"Oh, I'm teaching myself while I speak it out to you."

- Now you know why I love to teach, because as I teach,

I grow and learn because before I can stand up there,

I have to understand it.

I have to grow it, I have to know it.

And so when people ask me the question,

I'm able to answer it.

And I really don't have a problem with,

"You know what, it's a great question.

I don't know. Let's all look it up together."

- Right.

- Anybody here know?

- Start the journey. - Okay, yeah.

(Rob chuckles)

- Start the journey.

Learning is so amazing to me.

- Okay, so people who are passionate about learning,

what's the Desiree rule book?

Where are you starting to help you learn better?

- For me, I'm an early morning person,

so you have to actually know yourself, right?

If you're an early morning person like myself, you get up,

have your cup of coffee, and I've already,

by the end of the day, this is what I'm gonna do tomorrow.

So I'm looking what my yesterday told me I'm gonna do today.

- You're planning for tomorrow already.

- Every day.

- That's interesting.

- Every day.

- That's cool. - So before I go to bed,

I have a list of things that I didn't get accomplished.

- A list?! - Yeah.

- A written out list.

How many things would end up on the list?

Is it like a five-point list? Does it depend on the day?

- Sometimes it's a...

So, in the beginning of the month,

I'll start with a growing list.

It just grows.

Every day I try to list out five things I want,

5 or 10 things I wanna accomplish,

or whatever I feel like is accomplishable for that day.

Some things are crossed off,

sometimes nothing's crossed off,

but it goes on to the next day.

So whatever's not crossed off goes on to the next day.

If I have two or three things that are easy,

I'll go to my running list, my big list for that month,

and I'll put something else on there, I cross those off.

So by the end of the month, I can go back and say,

"Look what I've accomplished."

- That's awesome.

- It gives me great joy to say, "Oh my gosh,

I made great progress." - Yeah!

- Without that, I'm always feel like I'm just doing,

I'm never accomplishing. - That's where I'm stuck.

I'm just doing, I'm doing, I'm doing.

I'm not seeing

all this stuff I've done- - Accomplishment, yeah.

- to feel good and not,

it's almost like you gotta get rid of that anxiety

because there's always something new to be done.

So the anxiety of always having to do something

is always there.

- It's a small thing.

Take 10 or 15 minutes out your day.

The first day is gonna be the hardest

because you're gonna write down everything

that you think you need to do.

And then you're going to continue

by adding on to that list.

Every time you think something, add on to that month list.

And then you just every day add on,

and at the end of the month, you reward yourself

by looking at it and saying, "Look what I've done."

It's almost like somebody patted you on the back.

- Yeah, you did yourself.

You're like,

"Oh, look what I did." - You need that in life

because I used to feel like,

"Oh my gosh, I'm just not doing anything.

I don't even know why. This is just endless, pointless."

And then until I started to really...

I started doing this in small portions

until I started to implement it regular in my life,

it's just so much more fulfilling for me now.

- It's part of what you do now, but,

so how long have you been doing this?

Or when did it kind of start for you?

- Um, probably about two years now.

- Okay.

Was it because of Drunk Chicken Cigars

that you needed to start doing this,

or was it just personal?

- Oh, I did it on a smaller scale.

I didn't do it every single day.

I did a running list for the month.

I always did that to keep up with working full-time,

being a teacher full-time, and, you know,

with my kids

and their schedules. - Keep yourself organized,

so you got stuff to do. - Yeah, so I always did

a running list, the household thing.

But now, I take 15 minutes outta my day before my day ends,

whether it's workday or go to bed,

and try to write down those things.

And if I forget it, that's okay.

But right first thing in the morning,

okay, now let's start my day.

Don't hurt yourself, punish yourself for not doing it.

Just, okay, didn't get it done yesterday.

What am I gonna do today?

- Yeah, don't give up on getting it done

just because you didn't do it during the time period

that you thought you would.

- Exactly.

And then sometimes things get a little bit more complicated

than you think, it just moves from one day to the next.

- Right. Brilliant advice.

- Yeah.

I mean, time management is important

when you are juggling so many things.

- Yeah. And you got a lot of things to juggle.

(Desiree chuckles)

- Yeah.

- A lot of things.

- So, okay, with everything that's going on,

how the hobby has progressed, looking back on it,

you've already said you wished

you would've had more structure in the beginning.

But looking forward,

you're talking about planning one, three, five,

and so many years ahead.

What are the things or what is the thing

that you wanna be doing

to make sure that you're setting up the future?

So, we're looking retrospective.

We wish we would've set a good foundation.

What's gonna help you

or Drunk Chicken Cigars grow for the future?

What are we looking at doing? What's our one thing?

- I'm looking at...

So, I'm kind of doing some market research and seeing like,

you know, what are, you know, some common things with,

I'm looking at JC Newman, I'm looking at Rocky Patel,

I'm looking at AJ, I'm looking at the big guys,

and what are some of the common things that they're doing

that are making them successful.

And I'm trying to bookmark, gauge those things,

and seeing where I feel like I can fit that aspect of it

into my business.

I know it's not necessarily a now thing,

but is it a five-year thing?

Is it a 10-year thing? Is it a 20-year thing?

And so those are the things

that I'm working into my future plan.

But, you know, you have to start looking at

who is successful, why are they successful,

what's making them successful?

And yeah, I know I'm not gonna go out there

and do full page ads and giving away a million cigars

and do a party like Drew Estate right at this point.

But there are some commonalities that I can actually gauge,

and then say, "This is where I would like to fit them

into my business plan."

- So, you're doing market research. I love that.

To get ready for the future.

And you're learning from people who have already done it.

- [Desiree] Yes.

- So much of what we do is learn behavior from each other,

learn techniques from each other.

Can anyone really ever say that they've pioneered

or done something 100% original?

- Albert Einstein? (laughing)

- Really?

- Maybe Albert Einstein. (laughing)

- It's very few and far between, right?

- Um, originality, it has a perspective.

So it's very subjective. - Yeah, that's a good way

to say it.

It has a perspective.

It might be original for you,

but it's probably not the first time

someone's ever done that.

- And I will tell you, most things is not the first time.

Anybody do it,

it might be the first time somebody's done it that way,

first times anybody's seen it that way,

first time anybody's presented it that way,

or presented it to you that way.

So, it is you...

You learn, and you don't necessarily just,

"Oh, I'm going to copy-paste."

You copy, you add, you subtract.

- That's where the originality comes in.

You add your thing. - Right, yes.

- And then

you move forward with that. - You do it your way.

- And then be true to yourself.

Because if I'm gonna try to be AJ,

I'm gonna fail because I'm not AJ.

I'm not JC Newman, so I'm going to fail.

I'm setting myself up for failure.

So I'm going to fail. I'm setting myself up for failure.

and what your beliefs are.

- Very well said.

When do you think it's visible

when someone's not being true to themselves?

How can you sniff that out and recognize it?

Because we all can kind of,

but what do you think is the tell, the giveaway?

- So, I don't wanna say that I'm, you know,

the judge of that,

or anybody else should be the judge of that.

I would tell you that from a person,

you need to look within yourself

and make that determination,

like if you are true to yourself or not,

and what that means to you.

to yourself or not. And what that means to you.

"You know what?

That tie does not really fit your personality,"

but you look at it and go, "Yeah, this absolutely is me!"

You know?

And so people are going to judge,

people are going to have a thought about who you are,

what you are,

because of what you present to the world, right?

But only you can make that determination

if you are what you are, how you are, and why you are, so.

- Yeah, that's really well said.

You're absolutely right. There is judgment.

And I suppose I kind of framed it that way,

but it's just every once in a while,

you do see that person who you don't think is living

that 100% authentic person that they are.

Like they might have just grabbed onto that idea,

pulled it in, but they really truly don't fit that.

- If they're not speaking it,

then that's where you start going, ask the questions then.

And so, okay, from that perspective,

if you are talking to somebody,

and they're presenting something to you,

and they're unable to present it

in a manner that feels authentic

or feels like they're presenting something

that they're passionate about, keep asking questions.

And at some point, you're gonna go,

"Uh, I'm not exactly sure,"

that you even believe in yourself.

- Right.

- So.

- Well said.

I'm a huge "go with the flow," and my wife isn't,

and it was sometimes, we would butt heads,

so I've learned how to deal with it.

Is your husband a go with the flow kind of guy

or is that always been something

that you guys have had to work on?

- No, he's structured. I'm not.

And I'm a little OCD on things that he's not OCD,

so we kind of balance each other in that way.

That's so great. That's the way I feel about my wife.

It's not like we butt heads and then that's the end.

It's like, okay, conflict, but let's figure this out,

so we balance each other out.

And it's super good. Super good.

I do have to ask you, in the beginning,

was there a moment that you thought,

"This whole thing is probably gonna fail.

I should just go back to it being a hobby"?

- Oh, every day. (laughing)

- Every day.

- Every day. - What specifically

about that though?

Like why?

- It takes a lot.

I mean, when you talking about future growth,

there's a lot of juggling that you have to do

to make that happen.

And there's a lot of people that are asking questions

that are relying on you that wanna have answers.

And I don't know if I always have the answer,

or the right answer.

So there's times that, a lot of times I go,

(Desiree sighs)

"Yeah, I could just smoke cigars."

And I tell people, you know, when they go,

when I get negativity, let me tell you something,

I will smoke every single one of these cigars by myself

and be a happy camper

before I let you make this negative impact on me.

So I am not going to take that negativity and own it.

I just, I will smoke them all and have be happy.

- Sure. (Desiree laughing)

Yeah, because that's how you started, right?

Like, "Ah, these are all cigars I like."

- [Desiree] Yeah. (chuckles)

- Okay, well, then, that's a great segue into,

do you try to apply customer suggestions to your brand

or is it a select vetted few that you rely on?

- No, even going from the hobby to business structure,

one of the first thing I did was grab people from all over,

focus groups, and say, "Hey, would you smoke this cigar?"

"Yeah, sure."

"But you have to come on the Zoom with me

if you're going to do that.

And when you're smoking it,

all I want you to do is tell me about the cigar.

What the notes are, what are you feeling,

what are you learning?

Tell me."

And I took those notes and used those for my descriptions.

- Oh great.

- Yeah, so, those descriptions aren't just my thoughts.

Those are, it wasn't select few, people I met,

people I was introduced to from New York,

California, Florida.

There were people all over the...

We were in quarantine.

And so I took that as,

"We're home. Let's smoke a cigar and let's talk about it."

So I gave away some cigars to people.

"I'll mail you this,

only thing I'm asking you is to show up on the Zoom."

And 90% of the people did it.

- That's so cool.

- And so, did I take their suggestions? Absolutely.

And I still do.

When I did the Homicidal Hen, people kept saying,

"Oh, it's not full body enough. It's not full body enough."

So I try to give, make something that was fuller.

That's why I made the Homicidal Hen.

And I went out and started asking people.

I went through about 30 iterations of that

before I got people's going, "I love that.

I love that. Repeat it.

I love that. I love that.

I love that. - 30 iterations?

- Or more. I just kept changing it, kept adding.

And then I realized something through the process.

People confuse body with strength.

So, I'm hearing- - Always.

- I want something full body,

and I'm trying to make something stronger in strength,

but what they're telling me

is they want more of a spice that's stronger.

And I like smooth cigars,

so I'm making cigars smooth but fuller in strength.

So that's something, it was a learning process for me.

Hearing my customers say one thing

and interpreting different.

So the next time I make a cigar,

I hope it's going to be fuller in body.

It may be a milder, it may be a medium cigar,

it may be in strength, it may be full in strength.

But I'm understanding now from what, you know,

when they're smoking it,

"Well, I love this, you know, strength or the body,"

but we're not always speaking the same term.

- That's so true.

And we get that question all the time,

and I even get it confused.

It's like, "Is this strength or is this body?"

Because strength can be hidden

inside a very well blended cigar.

So people are like, "Hey, is that a strong cigar?"

I'm like, "I am the wrong person to ask"

because I actually do not know if it's strong.

What I know is, is it blended well

to the point where I'm liking it?

Yeah, I like it.

Or "Well, was it strength or body that threw you off,

like that you didn't like it?"

I go, "I don't know, it like,

you know, it was like boom,

and it was like, 'I don't really like that.'"

- Right.

So that's one of the things

that I've learned through this process

that when listening to my customers,

I'm learning to ask different questions now.

- Okay.

So, you kind of have like a little playbook of questions.

- Yeah, so when you tell me, "Oh, I want a full body cigar."

"Okay, so what is it about the cigar

that makes it full body to you?

Is it more spicy? Is it like heavy when you smoke it?

Or is it that you get more of a nicotine kind of rush

in your head?"

Because there is a difference.

- Okay, so if somebody says they like the flavor, that's

"I want a stronger cigar, I want more flavor,"

that's body. - That's body.

- If they say, "I want a stronger cigar,

I'm not getting the nicotine buzz,"

that's strength. - Strength, yes.

- That's a good way to put it.

- Yes.

- Thank you for clarifying that

because it's always difficult to put those two together.

- Yeah, so I say, "Oh, my Mother Clucker,"

I used to say, "it's spicy."

People go, "That's not spicy ."

To me, it's spicy, but they're looking for a spicy,

harsh harshness that I call harshness,

they call body.

So it's just different terminology,

different way to describe it.

But I'm learning.

- That's so great.

So as you've developed your palate,

what's the like Desiree top three

to get it better and better every day?

What are the top three exercises or tips or tricks

that you're using to get a better palate for cigars?

- You know what?

- Or maybe it's just one.

- One thing for me is I'm not always gonna rely

on my palate anymore.

I relied on my palate because I was smoking the cigar,

making the cigars for me.

Now, I'm in a different position,

I'm making cigars for customers,

so I'm not going to rely on my palate.

So developing my palate is a great thing,

but making sure I listen to my customers,

getting customer feedback,

understanding what I'm hearing when I'm talking to people

at different events and things like that.

And seeing what's new out there

and why it's so new and sexy,

and seeing if that's something I should

or should not incorporate.

So I'm trying to keep my eye and ear and palate

on the market.

- That's perfect.

What things, though...

Okay, so as much as we ask customers what they want,

how they want it, sometimes there's a saying

that the customer doesn't know what they want.

And then there's also this aspect

of trying to go above and beyond

the customer's expectations.

So, how are you trying to go above and beyond

or deliver something possibly that's far superior

than what the customer's even asking for?

- So, for me, again, being true to myself.

I am making cigars that are high quality, well-constructed.

What these cigars are made, smooth cigars, consistency.

So that's what I'm trying to deliver now.

Consistency, quality is something that when you pick up

a Drunk Chicken Cigar, you're gonna go,

"This is what I picked up the last time."

So, that's why I'm trying

to meet my- - Did you struggle

with that before, like early on?

- I did, yes.

Because, you know, we bought from...

We source our tobacco.

So not every pallet that we buy is gonna be the same.

So I learned that I have to,

anytime we do new pallets

making sure that we may have to tweak it a little bit.

So, we learned that.

So consistency, quality-

- Because it's not like a recipe where you can say,

"Add a cup of sugar, add two cups of flour,

and boom, you're gonna get this magical cigar."

- [Desiree] Exactly.

- It might be that you need to cut some of that one out.

It's not a cup of that anymore. It's only 3/4 of a cup.

And you gotta add this one.

And then actually we have to add a little bit of this one

to mellow this all out.

- Yeah, so we definitely, anytime we get new pallets

test it against some older ones that we've had,

making sure that the consistency is there.

So, yeah, and then I've learned

that I can't roll my darker leaves

at the same time I do my lighter leaves.

The darker leaves shrink up a little bit tighter

than the lighter leaves.

And when you get on a roll, and you doing the lighter leave,

and you start rolling the dark ones at the same time,

well, they're gonna shrink up harder.

And so (chuckles) it cause a problem sometimes

with the pull and the draw.

- Sure. That's interesting.

So you're changing up the density of the cigar

based on the way it's going to perform.

- Yeah, so now we roll one blend a day,

or one size a day, so that we're not-

- Yeah, because it's like muscle memory, right?

- Yes.

- You can't go from one to the other

without having some failures

with trying to figure out how to change.

- Well, we did that, and we learned the hard way. (chuckles)

- Really? - Yeah.

- So learning the hard way,

does that mean you had to buy back product, comp it,

take the responsibility?

- Yep, all of that.

- How does that affect you and your business?

- I affect the bottom line.

I mean, it costs me money, but at the end of the day,

it's a learning process.

And if you're in business,

you need to be able to take it on the chin sometime.

You need to be able to apologize.

You need to be able to say,

"Hey, this happened and here you go."

You know, these are 100% hand rolled.

There are absolutely no machines involved.

People have bad days.

You're gonna have a bad stick every once in a while.

But, you know, we are here

to hopefully make your smoking experience better.

- Right. And have as minimal amount of hiccups as possible.

- Minimum, minimum, minimum.

- Do you have any cigars that you thought,

"This is gonna just be a massive hit,

and it just turned out to be a flop,

and you had to scrap it?

- So, I made a cigar for a shop out in Texas,

and we called it The Extreme.

And we launched it.

We had more problems with The Extreme, getting it launched,

trying to get that band made.

Well, we had problems. - So not even the cigar,

it was like all the other ancillary things alongside of it.

- And then we sat back and looked at everything and said,

"Look, we have 14 or 15 different vitolas right now."

- Whoa!

- Yeah.

- Wow.

- Well we only have, at the time we had seven blends.

- Seven blends, but 14 different vitolas. Gotcha.

- Yeah, it was 15 or 16 at the time.

And we were like, you know,

"We need to be good at this group here

and consistent with this group.

And maybe we're moving faster than we should.

- [Rob] Sure.

- So not that The Extreme wasn't good,

but The Extreme was the last.

Extreme we were having problems with.

Bye-bye Extreme right now.

- You gotta pull that energy elsewhere.

- Yeah, so we pulled it back. - That's so smart

as a business owner and just as a person in general,

why keep dumping energy into something

that's not gonna produce?

- Right, and it may produce later,

but right now, I'm enjoying the boxes I made. (laughs)

- Exactly.

- And they're great smokes,

but I just can't put the energy

in trying to launch it for sale right now.

I need to establish my brand, and that's the most important.

And then once the brand is established,

then we'll start adding more in.

But I don't see in our next three-year plan any new cigars

until we are a little bit

more established. - That's awesome.

The next three years you're just gonna dedicate

to making what you got going just that much better.

The consistency and the reliability that is gonna come

from Drunk Chicken Cigars is just gonna be on point.

So we know every time we pick one up,

it's always going to be similar.

Not the same,

but it's gonna be that cigar we expect it to be.

- Yeah. It's gonna be, yeah.

So, we're focusing on our brand right now.

- I love that. So smart.

Love it. Okay, give me the Desiree top three cigars.

I'm going morning, afternoon, and night.

What cigars am I joining you with for morning,

noon, and night?

- Morning? I'm definitely doing a Sweet Dream.

- Sweet Dream in the morning goes great with coffee.

It's got that nice sweet tip,

but not oversweetened to the point where it's an infusion.

It's just a nice sweetness right on the mouth.

Do you sweeten the rest of the cigar

or is it just the mouthpiece

that you sweeten? - Just the mouthpiece.

- Got it.

- I'm a big thing on infused cigars.

I'm concerned about how the infused process,

not all infused is the same infused,

and when you're burning it, what are you burning?

So you're typically not burning past there.

So you're not burning anything when you do that.

So my perspective, my perspective only,

and I haven't done enough research on it

to give it any more thought than that.

- Got it. So what's my afternoon cigar?

- So, in the afternoon, I typically like a medium cigar.

So I either go with a Fat Hen, Mother Clucker,

or Living the Dream, no, more Fat Hen, Mother Clucker

because I want a little bit more body.

I'm into my groove.

I'm like the top speed, (chuckles)

so I can burn off a little bit more.

The afternoon?

Depending on how many other cigars I smoked that day.

If I smoked a lot- - You mean in the evening?

- In the evening?

- In the evening, okay.

- Yeah, evening, I'm sorry.

If I smoked a lot of cigars,

I'm going with something light again

because I've already smoked a lot of cigars.

- So, yes, some people will go light, medium, full.

And you're going light, medium, light.

- Yeah.

- Let your palate cool down.

Still enjoy that great cigar, but not overpower your palate.

- Yeah, I wanna cool down, chill out, relax.

Sometimes I get- - So, which one

- a little more buzz- - are we smoking?

with the fuller cigars.

And I don't really like that for myself.

But if I'm gonna do it, I'm drinking whiskey,

and I will have a full cigar,

but I'm not leaving my house either.

- Yeah, so, what's that evening cigar on the light side

that you're grabbing for?

You going back to the Sweet Dream

that we started the day with?

- Either Living the Dream or Sweet Dream.

Sweet Dream sometimes can be a little bit much

on the sweetness.

When I'm doing whiskey or something like that,

I don't really want that, the competing flavors,

so I'll go with the Living the Dream that's really smooth

and doesn't compete with anything.

- Nice. - Compliments.

- Wonderful!

Thank you so much for sitting down with us,

running through how you ended up starting

this amazing brand.

Check it out everyone at drunkchickencigars.com.

It's phenomenal artwork.

The naming and the whole convention behind it

is just a blast.

Desiree, thank you for joining me.

- Oh, thank you.

I really appreciate you having me,

and I look forward to hanging out with you

for the rest of this weekend.

- Absolutely. I can't wait. (Desiree chuckling)

That's another episode of Box Press.

We're wrapping it up here at PCA.

We got more interviews coming.

And as always, protect those cigars with Boveda.

Have a blessed day.