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The Mother Clucker & Other Flocking Good Drunk Chicken Cigars | Box Press Ep. 86
Episode 8613th March 2023 • Box Press • Boveda Inc.
00:00:00 00:48:19

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Small-batch chasers and SOTL, it's time to give a woop woop to Drunk Chicken Cigars. This woman-owned, Black-owned boutique cigar company is headquartered in the District of Columbia. Hear how business professor Dr. Desiree Sylver turned a limited-run cigar hobby into a growing cigar business. The founder and CEO sat down with Boveda's Rob Gagner at PCA.

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Transcripts

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- There's a story inside every smoke shop

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with every cigar, and with every person,

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come be a part of the cigar lifestyle at Boveda.

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This is Box Press.

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(upbeat music)

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Welcome to another episode of Box Press.

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I'm your host, Rob Gagner.

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I'm at the PCA 2022 show,

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and I'm sitting down with Desiree Sylver

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from Drunk Chicken Cigars.

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Desiree, thank you for joining me.

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- Ah, thank you for having me. - Your brand

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caught me off guard.

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I was following somebody who was smoking a lot of cigars,

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and I saw this band, it was actually the Maduro,

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which is blue and it has silver and it has a chicken on it,

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and I said, "Who would put a chicken on a cigar band?"

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(Desiree laughing)

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And then on top of it, what's the name of this?

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So I quick, you know, Chicken Cigar, Googled,

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I don't have, you know, I don't know what it is.

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Drunk Chicken came up.

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I was like, "Oh my gosh, what kind of like creative mind

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(Desiree laughs)

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decided to go down this rabbit hole

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of naming all the cigars after chickens?

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Where did the name even start as an idea?"

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- So, I love chickens. (chuckles) I have chickens as pets.

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- [Rob] Okay.

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- And so I live in the Washington DC area,

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only about seven miles out.

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And my friends come over, and they see all my chickens,

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and "Are you crazy girl?

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What are you doing?" - How many chickens

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do you have?

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- On a good day, 30.

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Right now, we're probably about 25.

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We have animals that come and take them

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because we free range our chickens.

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- Awesome. - Yeah, so.

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- I mean, not that they come and take them,

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but they're free range, right? - Yeah, they're free range.

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- Do whatever they want. - They're free, yeah.

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And then at night we lock them up,

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and at six or seven o'clock in the morning,

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whenever I wake up, I let them out,

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and they go right back when it gets dusk, and I lock it, so.

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But sometimes prey get them. So, we're about 25 right now.

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And we named them all. (chuckles)

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- [Rob] Yeah.

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- And, I mean, I love chicken.

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I grew up...

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Every summer, my mom's from Jamaica, threw me out there.

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Go hang out in the chicken farm and the cow farm

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and the goat farm, running around barefooted out there.

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- [Rob] So you're a farm girl?

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- I wouldn't necessarily say that,

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but I think that I love that

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more than anything in life, the animals.

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They don't talk back. (chuckles)

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- You're connected to animals.

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- [Desiree] I am.

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- My wife is connected to animals as well.

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Like that actually is energizing to her.

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She always said, "I always have to have a cat or a dog."

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Like that's just,

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"Before you decide to marry me, that's a stipulation."

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And that's just good to know, right?

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Because that energizes her. That calms her down.

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So it sounds like your chicken hobby

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has really just been a passion project from day one.

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- [Desiree] Yes, yes.

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- And now, do you do anything special with the chickens

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other than raise them?

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Because some people bring them to shows and all that,

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the state fair and all that?

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- No, I just want them to live a good life.

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We do collect the eggs.

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I love to buy chickens based on the color of the eggs

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that they lay.

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Blue eggs, green eggs, pink eggs.

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- Pink?!

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- Pink, yes. I get a lot of pink eggs.

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- Interesting.

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- I only have-

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- You're talking about the shell, right?

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- Yes, the shell.

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- Not the yolk, right? - Yeah, just the...

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- They all the same inside. Just like hair color almost.

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I have some ducks,

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was trying to get a goat before COVID happened,

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and then when COVID happened,

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the lady that was selling me the goat said,

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"No, we look like we may have a food shortage.

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I'm gonna keep my goat," so I didn't get one.

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I had a couple dogs,

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one passed away. - Why did you want a goat?

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- [Desiree] Huh?

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- Why did you want a goat?

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- Oh, I just like animals.

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- You just like animals?

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- Yeah! - It wasn't like,

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you know, sometimes people are like,

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"I need the goat to kind of eat the grass

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or to eat this." - No.

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No, I just wanted the goat to hang out.

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- Cool.

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- I think they're cool.

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Some of the goats are fainting goats.

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I wanted a fainting goat

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that you scare them me. - Yeah. (chuckles)

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They go like.

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- They fall over. - Yeah. (laughs)

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- Oh, that's great.

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- But, yeah, I just like animals.

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They're free. They're, you know, no judgment.

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They hang out with you, you pet them. They cuddle with you.

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What's better in life?

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- [Rob] Right. So, do you have dogs, cats in the house?

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- Dogs.

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Well, my dog passed away

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recently. - Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

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- Yeah, I had that little guy for a long time.

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But we are in the process of considering moving,

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so we are not buying any new animals right now

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until we decide where are we gonna move,

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what are we gonna do?

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- I wouldn't have thought of that.

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But that's like a whole new moving process

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because now you have livestock to move.

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It's not just furniture and a U-Haul.

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It's furniture, U-Haul,

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and a livestock truck. - My chickens.

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- Yeah, right. (Desiree laughing)

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- Yeah. - That's amazing.

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- Yeah, so, but as soon as we decide, like, "Are we staying?

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Are we moving?" how long we're going,

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whatever we're gonna do,

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we're just trying to think about our second phase in life.

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And a lot of the second phase in life

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is because of the cigars right now.

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- Really?!

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- [Desiree] Yeah.

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- So you're thinking of moving out of state or in state?

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- Out of state. More so Florida, closer to our rollers.

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My husband recently retired, so he can move wherever.

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I work remote, I can go wherever.

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So we're just trying, you know,

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figure out our second stage of life right now.

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- That's awesome!

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- Yeah. And the kids are grown.

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- Really? How old are your kids?

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- 19 And 17.

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The 17-year-old graduates from high school

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and gets a AA this year.

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- 17, graduating from high school?

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- And getting her AA at the same time.

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- Smart kid!

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- And my 19-year-old did the same thing

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when she graduated, so. - Wow!

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Okay, so that's like the total opposite

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of what technically the culture's doing right now.

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Like I feel like most people who are younger

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are going through high school

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and then onto college or some sort of secondary

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and then onto like experiencing their young adult life

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and then like slowing down in their 30s to get married.

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And then not having kids until they're in their 30s.

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And it's like your kids are on the total opposite spectrum

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of this like accelerated through school and onto the next.

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- Well, they have a mom with a PhD who's,

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I used to be a professor as well. (chuckles)

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- Really?! - Yeah.

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- A professor of what?

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- I used to teach at University of Maryland

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UMUC, Strayer University.

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And I taught any contracting class, any business class,

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any finance class.

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- Wow. - Yeah,

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so I have a Masters of Finance,

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a PhD in Organizational Leadership,

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a business PhD. - That's awesome.

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So, did you homeschool your kids?

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Is that why they're on the fast track?

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Or like, just happens?

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- I didn't homeschool, but education's very important.

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So if they wanna do extracurricular activities,

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homework came first.

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And then mommy homework, they always had mommy homework.

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(Rob laughing)

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I always bought workbooks, three to four grades advanced.

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So I sat down, I taught them.

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They knew how to spell their name before they were two,

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both of them.

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- [Rob] Wow!

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- And, to me, it's very important

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to sit down with your kids,

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figure out where they are in their learning process

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and teach them at their pace.

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- That is so true because I'm experiencing that

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with my small family.

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I have a one-and-a half-year-old daughter,

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and I just had a son who's three weeks old,

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and my daughter was like, sign language, and she's talking.

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And it's like, I gotta keep feeding that need to like-

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- [Desiree] Get workbooks.

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- [Rob] Right.

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- And they love it when they're writing and crayoning.

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And even if they don't understand it,

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just have it in front of them

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and then sit down for two seconds

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and just go through it with them,

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and you'll be surprised how much they pick up.

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- That's good advice.

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The time spent with the child during that development stage

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is so important to their development.

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- Yeah. And teaching them their name.

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Find a song that they love and sing it with their name.

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- We got the "Wheels on the Bus." She'll do that.

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She'll do the "Wheels on the Bus" every once in a while.

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- Yeah, mine was

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♪ S, Y, D, N, E, Y ♪

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♪ F, O, U, S, E ♪

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(Desiree laughing)

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- That's an advanced one. - Yeah, so that's how

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I taught her how to spell her name.

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So when she went to school, she knew how to spell her name.

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She knew her first and her last name.

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- [Rob] That is awesome!

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- She sang it, but she couldn't do it without singing it,

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but she develops it.

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So teach them where they are.

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- I don't know the word for it,

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but when you use a song or something

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to help you spell something, there's a term for it.

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But that's brilliant.

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- Help you spell, help you learn. Do crazy sayings.

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When I was teaching kids in college,

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"Okay, you can't remember this?"

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Come up with the craziest saying

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and one letter for each thing

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that you're trying- - Yeah, some sort of-

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- to remember. - acronym and a phrase.

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- It helps.

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- Yeah, it does.

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- Yeah, I'm that kooky person that believes in education,

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believes in bettering yourself.

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And education does not necessarily equate to college.

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- Right. No, yeah, exactly.

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- Yeah, so I never forced my kids to go to college.

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I forced them to learn.

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- That's smart.

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- [Desiree] Yeah.

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- There's a difference there.

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- Yeah.

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And if they want to go to college,

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what are you going to college for?

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Figure that out.

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And what is it that you're trying to do?

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And do you need a degree for that? If so, how long?

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- Right. - Yeah.

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- That's awesome. Your kids are, they're gonna be set.

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They got you guiding them.

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- [Desiree] They're amazing kids. I love them.

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- I love that.

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- [Desiree] Yeah.

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- So, okay, (Desiree laughs)

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I didn't even know all the professor stuff.

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(Desiree laughs)

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So, what made you switch over to this cigar stuff?

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- I haven't switched, I just add it in into my life.

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- So, you're still a professor?

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- I will tell you, I'm taking more of a hiatus.

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So, but if I ever wanna be a professor, it is always there.

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- Okay, so do you have a full-time job right now?

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- I do.

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- What is it in?

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(Desiree giggles)

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- I'm the program manager

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for the exchanges at NASA.

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- NASA?! I love it!

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- Yeah, I never tell anybody that.

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So it's really - Really?!

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- one of the first times I ever told anybody.

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- Do you not want anyone to know about that?

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- It's not that.

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It's just that always people go, "NASA?"

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and they go...

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Omar is at NASA.

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- Oh, yeah. - And, yes,

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so it's just a coincidence

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because I didn't even know Omar

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when he was at NASA. - Yeah, you don't wanna steal

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his thunder.

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- No, because that's what he does.

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That's how he's advertised.

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You know, and I don't want- - Yeah, that's not your story,

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right? - Right.

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- Okay. - Yeah, so.

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But I think Omar does amazing things,

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and so I don't wanna steal that away from what he's doing.

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- Well, that's really humble of you to say,

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so I appreciate that.

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That's super nice,

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because we are all here based on our own journey.

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You're here based on your own journey.

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And so, you're absolutely right.

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You don't wanna mimic anyone to try to take their story away

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and make it less.

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- Right. And Omar does amazing things.

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He has amazing cigars. And that's his thing, so.

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- He actually came to Minnesota and visited me,

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and I had a ball hanging out with him.

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He's a blast. He knows how to have a good time.

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He's a great guy. - Yes, he does.

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- But on your side of things,

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you decided to launch Drunk Chicken Cigars.

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Why? What's the why?

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Like what makes somebody wanna just say,

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"I wanna make my own cigar?"

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- They're crazy.

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(both laughing)

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- [Rob] It's not easy.

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- No, it's not easy.

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And I didn't expect to, didn't want to, was never my goal.

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Rico, which is my husband,

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we decided to make cigars for ourselves

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because we both smoke cigars.

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And our running joke was, "All right, well,

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we can only afford one of us smoking today,

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so which one gets to smoke?"

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Because we were both smoking cigars.

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And cigars can be an expensive habit

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when I'm smoking two or three,

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he's smoking two or three or four,

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or whatever it is that day.

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And so that was our joke.

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And when we stumbled into,

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ran upon the rollers that we work with today,

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they were so amazing.

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Oh, we can make anything you want.

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We were just making a cigar that we liked,

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that we could enjoy, there were a variety of them.

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And we bought a....

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We blended these five with the rollers based on,

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he likes the DCO.

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It was number one.

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The Mother Clucker was great with red wine.

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That was number two. Number three was the Fat Hen.

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It was like that shorty Nub.

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I wanted to smoke it at work 45 minutes.

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Number three was Living the Dream because that's like,

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it's so smooth, it's so easy, I can smoke it anytime.

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And Sweet Dreams was my morning or afternoon delight.

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- That's what we're smoking now, Sweet Dream.

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- Exactly.

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So that's why, and we ordered 100 of them,

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and we numbered them one, two, three, four, five,

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so we know how to buy them again.

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- Yeah.

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So you're literally just building out a portfolio

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for you to smoke on a regular basis

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that wasn't gonna break the bank.

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- [Desiree] Right.

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- Brilliant.

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- And when we started going to lounges, our friends were,

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"What are you smokin'? What's that number one?"

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"Oh, just some cigars we made, here have one."

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"Oh, I love this cigar. You should sell it."

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And we heard it so much that we started investigating.

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We went to our so our lounge-

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- You're just answering kind of like, not really the demand,

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but like the natural occurrence of people being like,

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"Oh, this was good. Where can I get it again?"

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- Exactly. "I want one of those, sell me one."

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"Sell you one? We made 100. (chuckles)

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I mean, here have it."

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- I don't have any to sell.

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This is my inventory for the month.

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- Yes, so we went to our local lounge and said,

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"Hey, could you sell this?"

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They smoked it and said, "Yeah, we love it,

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but what is this band?" - That's powerful right there.

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So if you give it to a lounge owner, they smoke it,

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and they think it's good enough to go on the shelf.

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I mean it's hard to get shelf space.

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- Yeah, but we didn't take one lounge owner.

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Our friend's lounge owner,

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I actually traveled for my job and was in Alabama

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and didn't know this lounge owner from anybody else.

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And I gave him a cigar.

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I said, "I'm thinking about selling these,

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what do you think?"

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And he absolutely loved it.

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He said, "I'll buy them, just you have to change the band."

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So I heard the same thing again,

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"Love it, but change the band."

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- So, what was the band?

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- Number one on a white piece of paper.

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- Oh, yeah, so super like-

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- Super, just so I know what I was smoking.

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- Identify this, but there's no formality-

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- Nothing.

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- to the band.

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- Nothing.

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White piece of paper with a piece of tape on it

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with a number one.

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(both laughing)

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- Yeah, you need to change the band if I'm gonna sell this,

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or it's gonna go on the shelf unbanded.

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- Right. So, looked into what the bands would cost.

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Boom, bam, here I am. (chuckles)

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- Isn't that so cool?

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- It is.

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But, I mean, if I would've put more thought into it,

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because I took it as a hobby at first.

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- [Rob] Right.

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- And I went from a hobby into a full-blown business

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that the two people that said that they would buy,

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absolutely bought.

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Flew to St. Thomas.

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That same next day flew to St. Thomas

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after I delivered the two,

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got my third order in St. Thomas

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and been rolling ever since.

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And never put us a real business structure together.

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- [Rob] What's hard about that?

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- Now that I'm in full production,

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trying to go back with ambassadors,

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business structure together, thinking of it as a business

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and getting people to change as you change.

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And change, people don't like change.

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Yeah, and then it's a lot,

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it's hard when you don't have that structure

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already in place.

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Getting my bookkeeper, when I first got them on board,

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he was just like, "What is this?"

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(Rob chuckles)

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- Wait, you have a degree in finance.

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You taught finance, right?

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- People that do hair always have the worst hair.

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People that do nails have the worst (chuckles) nails.

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People that know that...

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But a lot of bookkeepers tell they have the worst book,

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the worst tax situation.

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Because when you do it yourself,

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you don't wanna do it for yourself.

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- Right.

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Yeah, it's not like something that fulfills you.

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You're like, "Okay, I gotta do the..."

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It's like work.

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I gotta work! - Right, it's your work, yeah.

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And then on top of that, I remember I was selling by myself.

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I was shipping, I was packaging, I was marketing,

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I was, you know, on and on and on,

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and by the time it got down to structure and finance,

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it was just like, it'll get there eventually.

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- Wow. - To catch up.

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- So total opposite

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of what all the business books teach us to do.

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- [Desiree] Not even a business plan.

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- Yeah! - Whose playing what?

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- You didn't even have a business plan.

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(Desiree laughing)

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It was,

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"Do you like this cigar? - Still don't.

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- Could you sell it?" (Desiree laughing)

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"Okay, I guess." That's interesting.

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- [Desiree] Yeah.

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- Wow.

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- Business plan up here.

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- So you're backing up (Desiree chuckling)

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trying to take a bigger look at everything

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and cleaning up the rough edges

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of your entire hobby/business now.

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- Yes. And it's been a big undertaking.

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As of November last year,

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that's all I've been really focusing on

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because I have a great sales team,

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"And you guys sell, I have a distributor,

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you guys ship and receive,

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and let me put the structure together."

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And it's not easy.

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- No,

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- Because now You've gotta- - It's not easy.

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- put on that like project manager/business

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entrepreneurial hat.

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- [Desiree] Yes.

Speaker:

- And stretch your brain in your mind.

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So, what is the biggest thing right now

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that you're stretching to learn

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so that you can keep up with the growth of your business?

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- So I look at my business and not where I am now,

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about where I want to go.

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So now it is always not current thought, it's future thought

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and trying to make sure that I have accounted for that

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with whatever structure I put in place.

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- Sure.

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So really what you're stretching yourself to do is pre-plan.

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- Yes.

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- Pre-plan what I wanna be in in the next...

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And how far out are you looking? A year?

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Two years?

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- No, no, no.

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I have 1-year, 5-year, 10-year,

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20-year, and a 30-year plan.

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- Sweet!

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- Because I'm always- - So you're building out

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that business plan as you go.

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- Yes.

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- Smart. - And I hope

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that one of my kids, or if not both,

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decide that they want to take over.

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I have two girls, but both of them know every cigar,

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every vitola.

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Both of them know all the blends

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because when I had shipping and receiving,

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guess who was doing it? (laughing)

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I would give them an invoice and say,

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"Go package it up and ship it."

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- It's a family business.

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- [Desiree] Yeah.

Speaker:

- Do they enjoy it, or is it more of like,

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"Oh, mom is sucking us in to her passion, and gosh,

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when she asks us, 'Are you done with your homework?'

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You're like, 'Ah, I don't know if I wanna tell you

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if I'm done with my homework.'"

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- That's my youngest. (chuckles)

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- Yeah, really?

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- It's a chore. She doesn't like the chores.

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My oldest is like, "Okay."

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Because I do give them payment, just like any other job.

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I pay them. - Right.

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Compensation. - Yeah, but my oldest

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is like, roll up her sleeve, she's into it.

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She asks me lots of questions.

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- She sees the reward. - Have you thought about it?

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Yeah. And I can see her taking over.

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And, actually, um

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I think that my youngest eventually will come around.

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If she does, she does. If she doesn't, that's okay.

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She has her own life. - No big deal, right?

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- Yeah. - Yeah.

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- You appreciate the help now.

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- Yep.

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- And she probably appreciates the money. (chuckles)

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- Um, that, and I do...

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It's value and hard work.

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There's value in that because she's not gonna get,

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no one's gonna get anything easy.

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And I want that they see what I do,

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they see how much effort I put into it.

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So whatever they say, they not gonna say,

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"Oh, my mom didn't show me how much work it's gonna be

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when they get out there," because I did.

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- You know what I think is funny, is like,

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if you take the aspect of hard work,

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it's hard work to get something,

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you have to work hard for it to get the return,

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I think it's also hard work to basically be lazy

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or to try to get a handout.

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If you actually took that energy that it would take

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to try to make ends meet, or to try to just not,

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to try to coast,

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you would actually be doing something more productive.

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- Absolutely.

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- You know?

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- Yes. - So no matter what it is,

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it's hard work.

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No matter what, as people, we want to work,

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we wanna produce something.

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- Actually, even I take that a step further

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because if you're asking me, "Well, how did you do that?"

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Well, I can tell you how,

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and it's probably gonna stick in your brain

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for about two minutes.

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But if you go research how,

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it's gonna stick in your brain a lot more

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because you found more value in it, you've found more

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than what I probably could tell you about it.

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- Yeah, and then if you do it,

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it's even more stuck in your brain

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because it's like, "Now I have to do it."

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- [Desiree] Yes.

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- That's the way I always had to study.

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It was like I had to get a partner sometimes,

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and then I had to be like,

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"Okay, this is this, and this is why it's this way,

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and this is what this means."

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Because then it was like,

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"Oh, I'm teaching myself while I speak it out to you."

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- Now you know why I love to teach, because as I teach,

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I grow and learn because before I can stand up there,

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I have to understand it.

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I have to grow it, I have to know it.

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And so when people ask me the question,

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I'm able to answer it.

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And I really don't have a problem with,

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"You know what, it's a great question.

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I don't know. Let's all look it up together."

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- Right.

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- Anybody here know?

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- Start the journey. - Okay, yeah.

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(Rob chuckles)

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- Start the journey.

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Learning is so amazing to me.

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- Okay, so people who are passionate about learning,

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what's the Desiree rule book?

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Where are you starting to help you learn better?

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- For me, I'm an early morning person,

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so you have to actually know yourself, right?

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If you're an early morning person like myself, you get up,

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have your cup of coffee, and I've already,

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by the end of the day, this is what I'm gonna do tomorrow.

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So I'm looking what my yesterday told me I'm gonna do today.

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- You're planning for tomorrow already.

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- Every day.

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- That's interesting.

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- Every day.

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- That's cool. - So before I go to bed,

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I have a list of things that I didn't get accomplished.

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- A list?! - Yeah.

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- A written out list.

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How many things would end up on the list?

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Is it like a five-point list? Does it depend on the day?

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- Sometimes it's a...

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So, in the beginning of the month,

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I'll start with a growing list.

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It just grows.

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Every day I try to list out five things I want,

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5 or 10 things I wanna accomplish,

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or whatever I feel like is accomplishable for that day.

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Some things are crossed off,

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sometimes nothing's crossed off,

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but it goes on to the next day.

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So whatever's not crossed off goes on to the next day.

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If I have two or three things that are easy,

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I'll go to my running list, my big list for that month,

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and I'll put something else on there, I cross those off.

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So by the end of the month, I can go back and say,

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"Look what I've accomplished."

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- That's awesome.

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- It gives me great joy to say, "Oh my gosh,

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I made great progress." - Yeah!

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- Without that, I'm always feel like I'm just doing,

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I'm never accomplishing. - That's where I'm stuck.

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I'm just doing, I'm doing, I'm doing.

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I'm not seeing

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all this stuff I've done- - Accomplishment, yeah.

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- to feel good and not,

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it's almost like you gotta get rid of that anxiety

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because there's always something new to be done.

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So the anxiety of always having to do something

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is always there.

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- It's a small thing.

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Take 10 or 15 minutes out your day.

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The first day is gonna be the hardest

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because you're gonna write down everything

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that you think you need to do.

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And then you're going to continue

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by adding on to that list.

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Every time you think something, add on to that month list.

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And then you just every day add on,

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and at the end of the month, you reward yourself

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by looking at it and saying, "Look what I've done."

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It's almost like somebody patted you on the back.

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- Yeah, you did yourself.

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You're like,

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"Oh, look what I did." - You need that in life

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because I used to feel like,

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"Oh my gosh, I'm just not doing anything.

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I don't even know why. This is just endless, pointless."

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And then until I started to really...

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I started doing this in small portions

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until I started to implement it regular in my life,

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it's just so much more fulfilling for me now.

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- It's part of what you do now, but,

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so how long have you been doing this?

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Or when did it kind of start for you?

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- Um, probably about two years now.

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- Okay.

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Was it because of Drunk Chicken Cigars

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that you needed to start doing this,

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or was it just personal?

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- Oh, I did it on a smaller scale.

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I didn't do it every single day.

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I did a running list for the month.

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I always did that to keep up with working full-time,

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being a teacher full-time, and, you know,

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with my kids

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and their schedules. - Keep yourself organized,

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so you got stuff to do. - Yeah, so I always did

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a running list, the household thing.

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But now, I take 15 minutes outta my day before my day ends,

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whether it's workday or go to bed,

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and try to write down those things.

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And if I forget it, that's okay.

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But right first thing in the morning,

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okay, now let's start my day.

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Don't hurt yourself, punish yourself for not doing it.

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Just, okay, didn't get it done yesterday.

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What am I gonna do today?

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- Yeah, don't give up on getting it done

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just because you didn't do it during the time period

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that you thought you would.

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- Exactly.

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And then sometimes things get a little bit more complicated

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than you think, it just moves from one day to the next.

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- Right. Brilliant advice.

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- Yeah.

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I mean, time management is important

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when you are juggling so many things.

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- Yeah. And you got a lot of things to juggle.

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(Desiree chuckles)

Speaker:

- Yeah.

Speaker:

- A lot of things.

Speaker:

- So, okay, with everything that's going on,

Speaker:

how the hobby has progressed, looking back on it,

Speaker:

you've already said you wished

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you would've had more structure in the beginning.

Speaker:

But looking forward,

Speaker:

you're talking about planning one, three, five,

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and so many years ahead.

Speaker:

What are the things or what is the thing

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that you wanna be doing

Speaker:

to make sure that you're setting up the future?

Speaker:

So, we're looking retrospective.

Speaker:

We wish we would've set a good foundation.

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What's gonna help you

Speaker:

or Drunk Chicken Cigars grow for the future?

Speaker:

What are we looking at doing? What's our one thing?

Speaker:

- I'm looking at...

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So, I'm kind of doing some market research and seeing like,

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you know, what are, you know, some common things with,

Speaker:

I'm looking at JC Newman, I'm looking at Rocky Patel,

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I'm looking at AJ, I'm looking at the big guys,

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and what are some of the common things that they're doing

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that are making them successful.

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And I'm trying to bookmark, gauge those things,

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and seeing where I feel like I can fit that aspect of it

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into my business.

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I know it's not necessarily a now thing,

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but is it a five-year thing?

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Is it a 10-year thing? Is it a 20-year thing?

Speaker:

And so those are the things

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that I'm working into my future plan.

Speaker:

But, you know, you have to start looking at

Speaker:

who is successful, why are they successful,

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what's making them successful?

Speaker:

And yeah, I know I'm not gonna go out there

Speaker:

and do full page ads and giving away a million cigars

Speaker:

and do a party like Drew Estate right at this point.

Speaker:

But there are some commonalities that I can actually gauge,

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and then say, "This is where I would like to fit them

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into my business plan."

Speaker:

- So, you're doing market research. I love that.

Speaker:

To get ready for the future.

Speaker:

And you're learning from people who have already done it.

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- [Desiree] Yes.

Speaker:

- So much of what we do is learn behavior from each other,

Speaker:

learn techniques from each other.

Speaker:

Can anyone really ever say that they've pioneered

Speaker:

or done something 100% original?

Speaker:

- Albert Einstein? (laughing)

Speaker:

- Really?

Speaker:

- Maybe Albert Einstein. (laughing)

Speaker:

- It's very few and far between, right?

Speaker:

- Um, originality, it has a perspective.

Speaker:

So it's very subjective. - Yeah, that's a good way

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to say it.

Speaker:

It has a perspective.

Speaker:

It might be original for you,

Speaker:

but it's probably not the first time

Speaker:

someone's ever done that.

Speaker:

- And I will tell you, most things is not the first time.

Speaker:

Anybody do it,

Speaker:

it might be the first time somebody's done it that way,

Speaker:

first times anybody's seen it that way,

Speaker:

first time anybody's presented it that way,

Speaker:

or presented it to you that way.

Speaker:

So, it is you...

Speaker:

You learn, and you don't necessarily just,

Speaker:

"Oh, I'm going to copy-paste."

Speaker:

You copy, you add, you subtract.

Speaker:

- That's where the originality comes in.

Speaker:

You add your thing. - Right, yes.

Speaker:

- And then

Speaker:

you move forward with that. - You do it your way.

Speaker:

- And then be true to yourself.

Speaker:

Because if I'm gonna try to be AJ,

Speaker:

I'm gonna fail because I'm not AJ.

Speaker:

I'm not JC Newman, so I'm going to fail.

Speaker:

I'm setting myself up for failure.

Speaker:

So I'm going to fail. I'm setting myself up for failure.

Speaker:

and what your beliefs are.

Speaker:

- Very well said.

Speaker:

When do you think it's visible

Speaker:

when someone's not being true to themselves?

Speaker:

How can you sniff that out and recognize it?

Speaker:

Because we all can kind of,

Speaker:

but what do you think is the tell, the giveaway?

Speaker:

- So, I don't wanna say that I'm, you know,

Speaker:

the judge of that,

Speaker:

or anybody else should be the judge of that.

Speaker:

I would tell you that from a person,

Speaker:

you need to look within yourself

Speaker:

and make that determination,

Speaker:

like if you are true to yourself or not,

Speaker:

and what that means to you.

Speaker:

to yourself or not. And what that means to you.

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"You know what?

Speaker:

That tie does not really fit your personality,"

Speaker:

but you look at it and go, "Yeah, this absolutely is me!"

Speaker:

You know?

Speaker:

And so people are going to judge,

Speaker:

people are going to have a thought about who you are,

Speaker:

what you are,

Speaker:

because of what you present to the world, right?

Speaker:

But only you can make that determination

Speaker:

if you are what you are, how you are, and why you are, so.

Speaker:

- Yeah, that's really well said.

Speaker:

You're absolutely right. There is judgment.

Speaker:

And I suppose I kind of framed it that way,

Speaker:

but it's just every once in a while,

Speaker:

you do see that person who you don't think is living

Speaker:

that 100% authentic person that they are.

Speaker:

Like they might have just grabbed onto that idea,

Speaker:

pulled it in, but they really truly don't fit that.

Speaker:

- If they're not speaking it,

Speaker:

then that's where you start going, ask the questions then.

Speaker:

And so, okay, from that perspective,

Speaker:

if you are talking to somebody,

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and they're presenting something to you,

Speaker:

and they're unable to present it

Speaker:

in a manner that feels authentic

Speaker:

or feels like they're presenting something

Speaker:

that they're passionate about, keep asking questions.

Speaker:

And at some point, you're gonna go,

Speaker:

"Uh, I'm not exactly sure,"

Speaker:

that you even believe in yourself.

Speaker:

- Right.

Speaker:

- So.

Speaker:

- Well said.

Speaker:

I'm a huge "go with the flow," and my wife isn't,

Speaker:

and it was sometimes, we would butt heads,

Speaker:

so I've learned how to deal with it.

Speaker:

Is your husband a go with the flow kind of guy

Speaker:

or is that always been something

Speaker:

that you guys have had to work on?

Speaker:

- No, he's structured. I'm not.

Speaker:

And I'm a little OCD on things that he's not OCD,

Speaker:

so we kind of balance each other in that way.

Speaker:

That's so great. That's the way I feel about my wife.

Speaker:

It's not like we butt heads and then that's the end.

Speaker:

It's like, okay, conflict, but let's figure this out,

Speaker:

so we balance each other out.

Speaker:

And it's super good. Super good.

Speaker:

I do have to ask you, in the beginning,

Speaker:

was there a moment that you thought,

Speaker:

"This whole thing is probably gonna fail.

Speaker:

I should just go back to it being a hobby"?

Speaker:

- Oh, every day. (laughing)

Speaker:

- Every day.

Speaker:

- Every day. - What specifically

Speaker:

about that though?

Speaker:

Like why?

Speaker:

- It takes a lot.

Speaker:

I mean, when you talking about future growth,

Speaker:

there's a lot of juggling that you have to do

Speaker:

to make that happen.

Speaker:

And there's a lot of people that are asking questions

Speaker:

that are relying on you that wanna have answers.

Speaker:

And I don't know if I always have the answer,

Speaker:

or the right answer.

Speaker:

So there's times that, a lot of times I go,

Speaker:

(Desiree sighs)

Speaker:

"Yeah, I could just smoke cigars."

Speaker:

And I tell people, you know, when they go,

Speaker:

when I get negativity, let me tell you something,

Speaker:

I will smoke every single one of these cigars by myself

Speaker:

and be a happy camper

Speaker:

before I let you make this negative impact on me.

Speaker:

So I am not going to take that negativity and own it.

Speaker:

I just, I will smoke them all and have be happy.

Speaker:

- Sure. (Desiree laughing)

Speaker:

Yeah, because that's how you started, right?

Speaker:

Like, "Ah, these are all cigars I like."

Speaker:

- [Desiree] Yeah. (chuckles)

Speaker:

- Okay, well, then, that's a great segue into,

Speaker:

do you try to apply customer suggestions to your brand

Speaker:

or is it a select vetted few that you rely on?

Speaker:

- No, even going from the hobby to business structure,

Speaker:

one of the first thing I did was grab people from all over,

Speaker:

focus groups, and say, "Hey, would you smoke this cigar?"

Speaker:

"Yeah, sure."

Speaker:

"But you have to come on the Zoom with me

Speaker:

if you're going to do that.

Speaker:

And when you're smoking it,

Speaker:

all I want you to do is tell me about the cigar.

Speaker:

What the notes are, what are you feeling,

Speaker:

what are you learning?

Speaker:

Tell me."

Speaker:

And I took those notes and used those for my descriptions.

Speaker:

- Oh great.

Speaker:

- Yeah, so, those descriptions aren't just my thoughts.

Speaker:

Those are, it wasn't select few, people I met,

Speaker:

people I was introduced to from New York,

Speaker:

California, Florida.

Speaker:

There were people all over the...

Speaker:

We were in quarantine.

Speaker:

And so I took that as,

Speaker:

"We're home. Let's smoke a cigar and let's talk about it."

Speaker:

So I gave away some cigars to people.

Speaker:

"I'll mail you this,

Speaker:

only thing I'm asking you is to show up on the Zoom."

Speaker:

And 90% of the people did it.

Speaker:

- That's so cool.

Speaker:

- And so, did I take their suggestions? Absolutely.

Speaker:

And I still do.

Speaker:

When I did the Homicidal Hen, people kept saying,

Speaker:

"Oh, it's not full body enough. It's not full body enough."

Speaker:

So I try to give, make something that was fuller.

Speaker:

That's why I made the Homicidal Hen.

Speaker:

And I went out and started asking people.

Speaker:

I went through about 30 iterations of that

Speaker:

before I got people's going, "I love that.

Speaker:

I love that. Repeat it.

Speaker:

I love that. I love that.

Speaker:

I love that. - 30 iterations?

Speaker:

- Or more. I just kept changing it, kept adding.

Speaker:

And then I realized something through the process.

Speaker:

People confuse body with strength.

Speaker:

So, I'm hearing- - Always.

Speaker:

- I want something full body,

Speaker:

and I'm trying to make something stronger in strength,

Speaker:

but what they're telling me

Speaker:

is they want more of a spice that's stronger.

Speaker:

And I like smooth cigars,

Speaker:

so I'm making cigars smooth but fuller in strength.

Speaker:

So that's something, it was a learning process for me.

Speaker:

Hearing my customers say one thing

Speaker:

and interpreting different.

Speaker:

So the next time I make a cigar,

Speaker:

I hope it's going to be fuller in body.

Speaker:

It may be a milder, it may be a medium cigar,

Speaker:

it may be in strength, it may be full in strength.

Speaker:

But I'm understanding now from what, you know,

Speaker:

when they're smoking it,

Speaker:

"Well, I love this, you know, strength or the body,"

Speaker:

but we're not always speaking the same term.

Speaker:

- That's so true.

Speaker:

And we get that question all the time,

Speaker:

and I even get it confused.

Speaker:

It's like, "Is this strength or is this body?"

Speaker:

Because strength can be hidden

Speaker:

inside a very well blended cigar.

Speaker:

So people are like, "Hey, is that a strong cigar?"

Speaker:

I'm like, "I am the wrong person to ask"

Speaker:

because I actually do not know if it's strong.

Speaker:

What I know is, is it blended well

Speaker:

to the point where I'm liking it?

Speaker:

Yeah, I like it.

Speaker:

Or "Well, was it strength or body that threw you off,

Speaker:

like that you didn't like it?"

Speaker:

I go, "I don't know, it like,

Speaker:

you know, it was like boom,

Speaker:

and it was like, 'I don't really like that.'"

Speaker:

- Right.

Speaker:

So that's one of the things

Speaker:

that I've learned through this process

Speaker:

that when listening to my customers,

Speaker:

I'm learning to ask different questions now.

Speaker:

- Okay.

Speaker:

So, you kind of have like a little playbook of questions.

Speaker:

- Yeah, so when you tell me, "Oh, I want a full body cigar."

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"Okay, so what is it about the cigar

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that makes it full body to you?

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Is it more spicy? Is it like heavy when you smoke it?

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Or is it that you get more of a nicotine kind of rush

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in your head?"

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Because there is a difference.

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- Okay, so if somebody says they like the flavor, that's

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"I want a stronger cigar, I want more flavor,"

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that's body. - That's body.

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- If they say, "I want a stronger cigar,

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I'm not getting the nicotine buzz,"

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that's strength. - Strength, yes.

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- That's a good way to put it.

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- Yes.

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- Thank you for clarifying that

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because it's always difficult to put those two together.

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- Yeah, so I say, "Oh, my Mother Clucker,"

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I used to say, "it's spicy."

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People go, "That's not spicy ."

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To me, it's spicy, but they're looking for a spicy,

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harsh harshness that I call harshness,

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they call body.

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So it's just different terminology,

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different way to describe it.

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But I'm learning.

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- That's so great.

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So as you've developed your palate,

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what's the like Desiree top three

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to get it better and better every day?

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What are the top three exercises or tips or tricks

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that you're using to get a better palate for cigars?

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- You know what?

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- Or maybe it's just one.

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- One thing for me is I'm not always gonna rely

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on my palate anymore.

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I relied on my palate because I was smoking the cigar,

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making the cigars for me.

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Now, I'm in a different position,

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I'm making cigars for customers,

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so I'm not going to rely on my palate.

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So developing my palate is a great thing,

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but making sure I listen to my customers,

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getting customer feedback,

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understanding what I'm hearing when I'm talking to people

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at different events and things like that.

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And seeing what's new out there

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and why it's so new and sexy,

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and seeing if that's something I should

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or should not incorporate.

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So I'm trying to keep my eye and ear and palate

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on the market.

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- That's perfect.

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What things, though...

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Okay, so as much as we ask customers what they want,

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how they want it, sometimes there's a saying

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that the customer doesn't know what they want.

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And then there's also this aspect

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of trying to go above and beyond

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the customer's expectations.

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So, how are you trying to go above and beyond

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or deliver something possibly that's far superior

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than what the customer's even asking for?

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- So, for me, again, being true to myself.

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I am making cigars that are high quality, well-constructed.

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What these cigars are made, smooth cigars, consistency.

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So that's what I'm trying to deliver now.

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Consistency, quality is something that when you pick up

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a Drunk Chicken Cigar, you're gonna go,

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"This is what I picked up the last time."

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So, that's why I'm trying

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to meet my- - Did you struggle

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with that before, like early on?

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- I did, yes.

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Because, you know, we bought from...

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We source our tobacco.

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So not every pallet that we buy is gonna be the same.

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So I learned that I have to,

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anytime we do new pallets

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making sure that we may have to tweak it a little bit.

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So, we learned that.

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So consistency, quality-

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- Because it's not like a recipe where you can say,

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"Add a cup of sugar, add two cups of flour,

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and boom, you're gonna get this magical cigar."

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- [Desiree] Exactly.

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- It might be that you need to cut some of that one out.

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It's not a cup of that anymore. It's only 3/4 of a cup.

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And you gotta add this one.

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And then actually we have to add a little bit of this one

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to mellow this all out.

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- Yeah, so we definitely, anytime we get new pallets

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test it against some older ones that we've had,

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making sure that the consistency is there.

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So, yeah, and then I've learned

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that I can't roll my darker leaves

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at the same time I do my lighter leaves.

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The darker leaves shrink up a little bit tighter

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than the lighter leaves.

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And when you get on a roll, and you doing the lighter leave,

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and you start rolling the dark ones at the same time,

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well, they're gonna shrink up harder.

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And so (chuckles) it cause a problem sometimes

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with the pull and the draw.

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- Sure. That's interesting.

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So you're changing up the density of the cigar

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based on the way it's going to perform.

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- Yeah, so now we roll one blend a day,

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or one size a day, so that we're not-

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- Yeah, because it's like muscle memory, right?

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- Yes.

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- You can't go from one to the other

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without having some failures

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with trying to figure out how to change.

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- Well, we did that, and we learned the hard way. (chuckles)

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- Really? - Yeah.

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- So learning the hard way,

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does that mean you had to buy back product, comp it,

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take the responsibility?

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- Yep, all of that.

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- How does that affect you and your business?

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- I affect the bottom line.

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I mean, it costs me money, but at the end of the day,

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it's a learning process.

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And if you're in business,

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you need to be able to take it on the chin sometime.

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You need to be able to apologize.

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You need to be able to say,

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"Hey, this happened and here you go."

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You know, these are 100% hand rolled.

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There are absolutely no machines involved.

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People have bad days.

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You're gonna have a bad stick every once in a while.

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But, you know, we are here

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to hopefully make your smoking experience better.

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- Right. And have as minimal amount of hiccups as possible.

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- Minimum, minimum, minimum.

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- Do you have any cigars that you thought,

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"This is gonna just be a massive hit,

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and it just turned out to be a flop,

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and you had to scrap it?

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- So, I made a cigar for a shop out in Texas,

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and we called it The Extreme.

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And we launched it.

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We had more problems with The Extreme, getting it launched,

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trying to get that band made.

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Well, we had problems. - So not even the cigar,

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it was like all the other ancillary things alongside of it.

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- And then we sat back and looked at everything and said,

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"Look, we have 14 or 15 different vitolas right now."

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- Whoa!

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- Yeah.

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- Wow.

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- Well we only have, at the time we had seven blends.

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- Seven blends, but 14 different vitolas. Gotcha.

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- Yeah, it was 15 or 16 at the time.

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And we were like, you know,

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"We need to be good at this group here

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and consistent with this group.

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And maybe we're moving faster than we should.

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- [Rob] Sure.

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- So not that The Extreme wasn't good,

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but The Extreme was the last.

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Extreme we were having problems with.

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Bye-bye Extreme right now.

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- You gotta pull that energy elsewhere.

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- Yeah, so we pulled it back. - That's so smart

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as a business owner and just as a person in general,

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why keep dumping energy into something

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that's not gonna produce?

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- Right, and it may produce later,

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but right now, I'm enjoying the boxes I made. (laughs)

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- Exactly.

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- And they're great smokes,

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but I just can't put the energy

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in trying to launch it for sale right now.

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I need to establish my brand, and that's the most important.

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And then once the brand is established,

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then we'll start adding more in.

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But I don't see in our next three-year plan any new cigars

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until we are a little bit

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more established. - That's awesome.

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The next three years you're just gonna dedicate

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to making what you got going just that much better.

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The consistency and the reliability that is gonna come

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from Drunk Chicken Cigars is just gonna be on point.

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So we know every time we pick one up,

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it's always going to be similar.

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Not the same,

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but it's gonna be that cigar we expect it to be.

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- Yeah. It's gonna be, yeah.

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So, we're focusing on our brand right now.

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- I love that. So smart.

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Love it. Okay, give me the Desiree top three cigars.

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I'm going morning, afternoon, and night.

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What cigars am I joining you with for morning,

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noon, and night?

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- Morning? I'm definitely doing a Sweet Dream.

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- Sweet Dream in the morning goes great with coffee.

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It's got that nice sweet tip,

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but not oversweetened to the point where it's an infusion.

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It's just a nice sweetness right on the mouth.

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Do you sweeten the rest of the cigar

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or is it just the mouthpiece

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that you sweeten? - Just the mouthpiece.

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- Got it.

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- I'm a big thing on infused cigars.

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I'm concerned about how the infused process,

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not all infused is the same infused,

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and when you're burning it, what are you burning?

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So you're typically not burning past there.

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So you're not burning anything when you do that.

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So my perspective, my perspective only,

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and I haven't done enough research on it

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to give it any more thought than that.

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- Got it. So what's my afternoon cigar?

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- So, in the afternoon, I typically like a medium cigar.

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So I either go with a Fat Hen, Mother Clucker,

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or Living the Dream, no, more Fat Hen, Mother Clucker

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because I want a little bit more body.

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I'm into my groove.

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I'm like the top speed, (chuckles)

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so I can burn off a little bit more.

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The afternoon?

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Depending on how many other cigars I smoked that day.

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If I smoked a lot- - You mean in the evening?

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- In the evening?

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- In the evening, okay.

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- Yeah, evening, I'm sorry.

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If I smoked a lot of cigars,

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I'm going with something light again

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because I've already smoked a lot of cigars.

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- So, yes, some people will go light, medium, full.

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And you're going light, medium, light.

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- Yeah.

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- Let your palate cool down.

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Still enjoy that great cigar, but not overpower your palate.

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- Yeah, I wanna cool down, chill out, relax.

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Sometimes I get- - So, which one

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- a little more buzz- - are we smoking?

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with the fuller cigars.

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And I don't really like that for myself.

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But if I'm gonna do it, I'm drinking whiskey,

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and I will have a full cigar,

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but I'm not leaving my house either.

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- Yeah, so, what's that evening cigar on the light side

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that you're grabbing for?

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You going back to the Sweet Dream

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that we started the day with?

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- Either Living the Dream or Sweet Dream.

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Sweet Dream sometimes can be a little bit much

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on the sweetness.

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When I'm doing whiskey or something like that,

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I don't really want that, the competing flavors,

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so I'll go with the Living the Dream that's really smooth

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and doesn't compete with anything.

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- Nice. - Compliments.

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- Wonderful!

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Thank you so much for sitting down with us,

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running through how you ended up starting

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this amazing brand.

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Check it out everyone at drunkchickencigars.com.

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It's phenomenal artwork.

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The naming and the whole convention behind it

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is just a blast.

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Desiree, thank you for joining me.

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- Oh, thank you.

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I really appreciate you having me,

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and I look forward to hanging out with you

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for the rest of this weekend.

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- Absolutely. I can't wait. (Desiree chuckling)

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That's another episode of Box Press.

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We're wrapping it up here at PCA.

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We got more interviews coming.

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And as always, protect those cigars with Boveda.

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Have a blessed day.

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