Hey there,

enjoy this casual and fun conversation I had with my friend David Lee

We will talk about fighting fair and how to communicate when the going gets tough.

Choose a little bit of discomfort and feelings of vulnerability over avoidance and repression

We will also share our thoughts on feminism and how modern feminism is very disruptive for romantic relationships between men and women

enjoy

with love

A

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Unknown: 00:00:00

Hello, hello, and welcome to the Borealis

Unknown: 00:00:03

experience. I'm your host Aurora, and I'm so happy to be

Unknown: 00:00:06

sharing this interview with you today. I was in a conversation

Unknown: 00:00:10

with David Lee, a friend of mine. And yeah, we talk about

Unknown: 00:00:17

feminism, we talk about the importance of fighting fair

Unknown: 00:00:22

importance of communicating, expressing yourself, honestly,

Unknown: 00:00:26

and not making the assumptions that the other person knows you

Unknown: 00:00:30

enough already or can read you enjoy this very raw and fun

Unknown: 00:00:36

interview. And, yeah, take good care of yourself. I was trying

Unknown: 00:00:43

to think of a good story that had a good ending. That was also

Unknown: 00:00:47

fun for the listeners to hear. So Oh, so

Unknown: 00:00:52

this is Valentine's Day. I'm living in Roanoke, which if you

Unknown: 00:00:57

haven't heard of Roanoke is probably a good reason. It's a

Unknown: 00:00:59

small town in southwestern Virginia. Yeah. And so I was in

Unknown: 00:01:05

school at the time, I didn't have a whole lot of money. And

Unknown: 00:01:07

the person I was dating didn't either. And so I said, Okay,

Unknown: 00:01:11

here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna have Valentine's

Unknown: 00:01:14

Day, but we're not going to spend more than I think it was,

Unknown: 00:01:17

like $5 on each other. Yeah. And she goes, Okay, okay, great. And

Unknown: 00:01:22

so, and I planned this out, I was in school at the time, and

Unknown: 00:01:25

she was working down at the hospital. And so went to the

Unknown: 00:01:28

dollar store, and I got like a 15 pack of red balloons, giant

Unknown: 00:01:32

red balloons, right? Yeah. And I went out to her for work. And I

Unknown: 00:01:38

found her car in the parking lot. And I blew up all these

Unknown: 00:01:42

balloons, big, you know, one foot diameter balloons and taped

Unknown: 00:01:47

them all over her car. And I'd also made a Valentine's Day card

Unknown: 00:01:52

with pictures and cartoons of her and me and my dog, you know,

Unknown: 00:01:55

and all that other stuff, and decorated all up and stuck it on

Unknown: 00:01:59

her windshield, and then went home. And I just waited to see

Unknown: 00:02:04

what was gonna happen, right.

Unknown: 00:02:06

And then later on, I heard the story. She said she was in work,

Unknown: 00:02:12

and all of her co workers were talking. And she was up. She's

Unknown: 00:02:16

like, what's going on? They're like, well, I don't know what

Unknown: 00:02:18

happened. But there's this car at the parking lot with these

Unknown: 00:02:21

balloons all over it. And she thought that was so funny. And

Unknown: 00:02:25

so then, end of work comes around and she goes out, and

Unknown: 00:02:30

she's walking towards her car. And she's like, Oh, yeah,

Unknown: 00:02:32

there's that car with the balloons. And then she's going,

Unknown: 00:02:34

Oh,

Unknown: 00:02:36

wait, I think that's my car.

Unknown: 00:02:39

got there. And sure enough, she saw the balloons pasted all over

Unknown: 00:02:43

it. And she got so embarrassed. It was so much fun, though. But

Unknown: 00:02:47

she really appreciated that and got the card. And it was just a

Unknown: 00:02:50

really good time. Yeah. That's such a cool, she loved it. Yes.

Unknown: 00:02:57

Well, that's, that's absolute something that you should be

Unknown: 00:03:01

doing in a relationship and surprise your partner, and just

Unknown: 00:03:05

do something that comes from the heart.

Unknown: 00:03:09

Yeah, very Yeah, that was a good time. And I didn't spend a lot

Unknown: 00:03:14

of money, which was good, too. Not that I'm cheap. But just I

Unknown: 00:03:17

didn't have any money at the time. I was kind of broke. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:03:20

you don't need tons of money to impress your Valentine or the

Unknown: 00:03:25

person you care about. Right? Like you can be creative.

Unknown: 00:03:31

Yeah, totally. So we both read books on boundaries. You read

Unknown: 00:03:37

two books, actually. Right? You read the boundaries book, and

Unknown: 00:03:40

then the boundaries in relationship book.

Unknown: 00:03:44

Well, I haven't gotten started on the boundaries and dating

Unknown: 00:03:46

book yet, but I do.

Unknown: 00:03:48

Okay, okay. So what have you learned in your past

Unknown: 00:03:52

relationships? About boundaries? Are you really good with

Unknown: 00:03:56

boundaries? Or were your partners good with it? Or both?

Unknown: 00:04:00

Who are not good at it? What are your experiences with that?

Unknown: 00:04:05

Well, I think there are some areas that I'm good at and

Unknown: 00:04:08

scenarios that I'm not good at. One thing I can do is I can get

Unknown: 00:04:13

on a certain topic, and stay on topic, especially if it's one

Unknown: 00:04:17

that I like, like, you know, planes. And sometimes I tend to

Unknown: 00:04:22

talk too much about them.

Unknown: 00:04:24

And so I have to learn when the call it quits. And sometimes

Unknown: 00:04:28

it's hard to tell if, if the person is actually interested or

Unknown: 00:04:31

if I'm just, you know, talking about my own interests rather

Unknown: 00:04:34

than theirs. Mm hmm. Okay. Okay. So it would be like a balance in

Unknown: 00:04:40

the conversation

Unknown: 00:04:43

that you have to find out okay, is is that person into it or

Unknown: 00:04:47

not? Can I continue to talk and or not?

Unknown: 00:04:51

Yes, totally. And I think a lot of that too, comes down to

Unknown: 00:04:57

just conversation and clarify.

Unknown: 00:05:00

I know after a while you learn to say, okay, so if I'm going

Unknown: 00:05:04

too long, you let me know. Because a lot of times I find

Unknown: 00:05:09

people say, Well, if he doesn't know that I'm not gonna tell

Unknown: 00:05:13

him. I've heard that a lot. And the thing is, sometimes as a guy

Unknown: 00:05:19

and me in particular, sometimes I'm just oblivious. So I would

Unknown: 00:05:24

rather you tell me up front, hey, look, this is what I feel

Unknown: 00:05:28

about this, or don't do this, you know, when I'm doing this,

Unknown: 00:05:31

whatever. And just let me know.

Unknown: 00:05:35

And we had a lot of times, it's just going to be a blunt, David,

Unknown: 00:05:39

your story's gone too long. Let's move on, then I can say,

Unknown: 00:05:42

Oh, good, you know, rather than dropping me hints, like kicking

Unknown: 00:05:46

me under the table, or, you know, pinching my arm or

Unknown: 00:05:48

whatever.

Unknown: 00:05:50

Okay. And do you think is, like from the other person said that

Unknown: 00:05:55

they don't trust that you weren't react? Well, or? They

Unknown: 00:06:00

don't have that kind of? Yeah, the tools to communicate what

Unknown: 00:06:05

they want to

Unknown: 00:06:07

communicate to you? Like, why is it that some people are so shy

Unknown: 00:06:14

to say when they don't like something?

Unknown: 00:06:19

Yeah, and I've noticed that some people are and some people are

Unknown: 00:06:22

very blunt. And I think the sinus probably comes from social

Unknown: 00:06:28

norms. Yeah, from trying to be polite in society and not

Unknown: 00:06:31

wanting to step on toes. Yeah. But if it goes too far, then you

Unknown: 00:06:37

have a situation that you just described there that the person

Unknown: 00:06:42

confronts you with a conclusion or

Unknown: 00:06:48

just leaves? Because she or he doesn't trust that you would

Unknown: 00:06:54

understand or they don't want, like they'd rather leave,

Unknown: 00:06:58

instead of having a little bit of an uncomfortable

Unknown: 00:07:01

conversation.

Unknown: 00:07:04

Is that, is that what you experienced?

Unknown: 00:07:09

Yeah, I think that resonates really well. And I think

Unknown: 00:07:11

particularly in today's day and time,

Unknown: 00:07:14

a lot of the advice given is just to give up and move on.

Unknown: 00:07:18

Because you know, the old adage, there's more fish in the sea.

Unknown: 00:07:22

But I mean, our parents generation, and their parents

Unknown: 00:07:25

before them, they didn't have that choice. It was basically,

Unknown: 00:07:29

you work it out. You fix the relationship. And I've heard

Unknown: 00:07:34

grahamcooke talk on this. He says that, that in relationship,

Unknown: 00:07:38

he said in anything, you don't have movement, or advancement

Unknown: 00:07:43

unless you have tension. Like when you're lifting weights, you

Unknown: 00:07:46

got tension in your arms, and you actually break down the

Unknown: 00:07:48

muscles. But breaking down the muscles makes them actually

Unknown: 00:07:51

stronger when they build back up. And it's the same in a

Unknown: 00:07:54

relationship is that yes, you are going to have tension, but

Unknown: 00:07:57

that tension builds the deepness of, of the relationship. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:08:02

And so it's expected and you just work through it. That's so

Unknown: 00:08:07

beautifully said. And I mean, what I experienced with that

Unknown: 00:08:12

stuff, you should record this, you should totally record this.

Unknown: 00:08:15

Well, that's, let's make sure that we put this out there

Unknown: 00:08:19

because people will love to hear it.

Unknown: 00:08:22

Yeah, I pressed the button on. Yeah, I totally agree.

Unknown: 00:08:27

Yeah, I experienced that I made or observed in my parents and

Unknown: 00:08:32

grandparents is, in that generation, a lot of people

Unknown: 00:08:36

endured stuff. So

Unknown: 00:08:41

my dad was always talking about what my mom was more of the

Unknown: 00:08:44

listener, the observer. And yeah, she suppressed a lot of

Unknown: 00:08:49

her thoughts and her feelings. And I feel my generation now is

Unknown: 00:08:54

sick and tired of suppressing.

Unknown: 00:08:58

And we leave situations where we feel uncomfortable. But that's

Unknown: 00:09:02

not the solution. Either. We have to learn how to say no, and

Unknown: 00:09:07

how to say, this is not what I like, this is not comfortable

Unknown: 00:09:11

for me, and then wait and see what comes from the other side.

Unknown: 00:09:15

Like we have to trust that the other person wants to adapt and

Unknown: 00:09:20

maybe compromise a little bit. And we also have to have that

Unknown: 00:09:24

willingness to have that little bit of uncomfortable

Unknown: 00:09:28

conversation. But a few A lot of us, like you said, are just

Unknown: 00:09:35

checking out. And yeah, exploring more fish in the sea.

Unknown: 00:09:40

And that doesn't create depth that just creates a society of

Unknown: 00:09:46

Yeah, shallowness and superficial

Unknown: 00:09:51

relationships, and that's not good.

Unknown: 00:09:56

Yeah, I totally I totally agree. I mean, it's creative people.

Unknown: 00:10:00

Who are just runners? And they'll run from relationship to

Unknown: 00:10:03

relationship until they find the one person who suits our needs

Unknown: 00:10:08

and checks all their boxes, which honestly, they're never

Unknown: 00:10:11

going to find, because nobody's like that. Yeah, the truth is

Unknown: 00:10:14

you grow in relationships. I mean, I mean, I've been in

Unknown: 00:10:17

relationships before to where, where I've just been a but

Unknown: 00:10:23

that happens, and you'll get arguments. But that what said,

Unknown: 00:10:29

What do you mean was I've just been a bat?

Unknown: 00:10:33

Oh, where, where I'm just

Unknown: 00:10:35

where I'm just headstrong. And I'm just not polite to be

Unknown: 00:10:39

around. You know, I'm not going to get into those stories on

Unknown: 00:10:42

this podcast, but maybe later

Unknown: 00:10:47

if we wanted to, but what I what I learned?

Unknown: 00:10:51

that you do. So what I've learned is that

Unknown: 00:10:55

even when you're in an argument, the truth is that you and the

Unknown: 00:11:00

other person are a team. And even in the midst of it, and

Unknown: 00:11:04

after you come out of it, you're still going to be on the same

Unknown: 00:11:07

team. So yes, there might be tension and difficulty. And you

Unknown: 00:11:11

might get hurt and hurt the other person and cry, but but in

Unknown: 00:11:15

the end, you're still a team, and you got to work together.

Unknown: 00:11:19

Yes, yes. And this is what you have to trust. You have to trust

Unknown: 00:11:25

that little bit of tension as good. That

Unknown: 00:11:30

same, like not being on the same page all the time is okay, too.

Unknown: 00:11:35

Because it opens up your mind and it challenges your beliefs.

Unknown: 00:11:41

And, yeah, you have to trust that you're both on a team and

Unknown: 00:11:45

that you're having that argument to sort things out and to then

Unknown: 00:11:49

have a deeper and better relationship. And I think with

Unknown: 00:11:54

me, it was always the case that I didn't trust that I didn't

Unknown: 00:11:58

want maybe that depth.

Unknown: 00:12:04

And I was scared of not being understood. So I'd rather run

Unknown: 00:12:10

away or feel suppressed. And that's absolutely not the

Unknown: 00:12:15

solution like this is when resentment builds, and the

Unknown: 00:12:20

relationship is starting to fall apart.

Unknown: 00:12:27

So what do you do when you feel like you're not being

Unknown: 00:12:30

understood?

Unknown: 00:12:32

I

Unknown: 00:12:34

try to catch a moment where I know the other person is like,

Unknown: 00:12:39

relaxed and a good place. And I will ask again, or reformulate

Unknown: 00:12:47

what I was meant to say. So I had an instance here, where I

Unknown: 00:12:55

had an interview, and I felt like I was not doing a good job.

Unknown: 00:13:00

And afterwards I received a comment.

Unknown: 00:13:04

Well, yeah, you were laughing hysterically. And it sounded

Unknown: 00:13:07

pretty silly. And I just blew up.

Unknown: 00:13:11

I just blew up a fuse, because I felt shitty already. And then a

Unknown: 00:13:16

person tells me Oh, yeah, and by the way, it was silly. On top of

Unknown: 00:13:21

it.

Unknown: 00:13:25

I totally blew up. And but the person didn't understand why

Unknown: 00:13:30

because I didn't see that I was frustrated and sad. So I'm also

Unknown: 00:13:35

one to not really show how I feel.

Unknown: 00:13:40

And then just made that silly comment. And then I blew up. And

Unknown: 00:13:44

instead of blowing up, I should have just said, Hey, you know

Unknown: 00:13:47

what, like, I felt really bad about my interview already. And

Unknown: 00:13:52

your comment really makes me feel worse. And just to say how

Unknown: 00:13:58

I feel, to put it into words, works wonders. And I didn't know

Unknown: 00:14:04

that before I found to be heard. I have to be aggressive, I have

Unknown: 00:14:11

to shut people out or avoid them and to kind of punish them with

Unknown: 00:14:16

the silent treatment or so.

Unknown: 00:14:20

But not to found out and to find out now that I can actually say

Unknown: 00:14:24

no, this is how you made me feel and it felt really bad.

Unknown: 00:14:28

And then to see the person be like, Oh, no, I'm sorry, that

Unknown: 00:14:31

was not my intention. Like I'm you're on your team is it

Unknown: 00:14:36

dissolves all the anger, all the sadness in seconds.

Unknown: 00:14:43

And I don't know if you had situations like that, where you

Unknown: 00:14:47

just simply communicate it and it dissolved a situation but I

Unknown: 00:14:52

think we totally underestimate the power of kind words and just

Unknown: 00:14:58

genuine expression of how

Unknown: 00:15:00

We feel

Unknown: 00:15:04

Yeah, totally. And I kind of grew up with that same kind of

Unknown: 00:15:09

belief that if you want to be heard, if you get angry, you

Unknown: 00:15:12

need to use your voice and yell and that kind of thing. But

Unknown: 00:15:17

later on, I learned, you know, that's not really beneficial.

Unknown: 00:15:21

And sometimes you get a lot more done with kind words I was I was

Unknown: 00:15:25

had gone through Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective

Unknown: 00:15:29

People. And the great habits, one of which is seek first to

Unknown: 00:15:32

understand then to be understood. And he talks about

Unknown: 00:15:35

how you talk in conversation about how, if there's an issue,

Unknown: 00:15:39

you don't just go to the person and say, Look, I have a problem

Unknown: 00:15:42

with this. And this, and I'm angry. Because of this, you

Unknown: 00:15:44

start first saying, Okay, now, there is a problem here, I want

Unknown: 00:15:49

to hear your view, first, tell me what's going on.

Unknown: 00:15:53

And then once they tell you, when you start to open up and

Unknown: 00:15:55

talk about it, then you can say, Okay,

Unknown: 00:15:59

this is how I felt about it. And this was my response. And then I

Unknown: 00:16:03

think that's what really gets the conversation going. But just

Unknown: 00:16:06

to understand the other person, before you interject what your

Unknown: 00:16:09

own personal view is on the topic, can clear up a whole lot

Unknown: 00:16:13

of stuff right off the bat.

Unknown: 00:16:15

Wow, yeah, and see, those are the tools that we need out

Unknown: 00:16:20

there. This is, like, for me, such a precious conversation

Unknown: 00:16:25

we're having because

Unknown: 00:16:27

I was, yeah, like you, I didn't have these tools. And then you

Unknown: 00:16:32

just need to read it sometimes in a good book, or experience it

Unknown: 00:16:37

with a friend, that there is other ways to communicate and to

Unknown: 00:16:41

get people to listen to you and understand you. And like you

Unknown: 00:16:45

just said, the minute the second, the person in front of

Unknown: 00:16:49

you knows that you want to hear them out first. That's when they

Unknown: 00:16:55

open up and they kind of become soft and open to receive your

Unknown: 00:17:00

message as well. And

Unknown: 00:17:03

it's such a beautiful, yeah, way to connect, and the only way to

Unknown: 00:17:08

rehab a romantic relationship.

Unknown: 00:17:13

Yet we are all a little shy when it comes to expressing our

Unknown: 00:17:17

feelings. But a few more more people want to go down that path

Unknown: 00:17:23

and see that this is this is the way to go to connect and feel

Unknown: 00:17:30

fulfilled.

Unknown: 00:17:33

I agree. I mean, it's so true. Like, what you're saying is,

Unknown: 00:17:37

people I think oftentimes are afraid to reveal the real self,

Unknown: 00:17:43

to reveal how they truly feel because it makes you vulnerable.

Unknown: 00:17:46

You know, and it leaves you open to I don't know, whatever you

Unknown: 00:17:50

want to call it and judgment or

Unknown: 00:17:54

just

Unknown: 00:17:55

seeming to be what's the word for it?

Unknown: 00:18:00

I guess just open and vulnerable. But the truth is

Unknown: 00:18:03

that, I mean, I went through a period in time where I was very

Unknown: 00:18:07

reserved. And I felt if people got to know the real me, they

Unknown: 00:18:10

wouldn't like it. And I had a guy say to me says, Well, if you

Unknown: 00:18:14

do that your whole life, then then how do you really connect?

Unknown: 00:18:17

How do you tell people who you really are, he says you need to

Unknown: 00:18:21

get that out there. And you know, it's okay to be sad or

Unknown: 00:18:25

lonely or to cry or whatever. But in that connection, you get

Unknown: 00:18:31

to know them on a personal basis, and they get to know you.

Unknown: 00:18:34

And that's a lot better than just being reserved and closed

Unknown: 00:18:37

off to people all the time. Totally. Yeah. And the moment

Unknown: 00:18:40

you allow yourself to be open and soft.

Unknown: 00:18:45

The other person will do the same, maybe not at the same

Unknown: 00:18:48

pace. But they will know oh, I can actually trust that person.

Unknown: 00:18:53

I can open up to them because they have done it already.

Unknown: 00:18:58

So it builds trust and intimacy and, and you for your part, you

Unknown: 00:19:04

find out pretty quickly, oh, can that person handle my true self?

Unknown: 00:19:09

Or can they not? And if they can, yeah, then it makes you

Unknown: 00:19:16

fall in love even more with them. And if they can't, then

Unknown: 00:19:20

you know, but you can't

Unknown: 00:19:23

stop doing it. Just because they don't respond well. You have to

Unknown: 00:19:28

stay true to yourself. And just know that you're not the cup of

Unknown: 00:19:33

tea or that other personnel, but don't change and don't start to

Unknown: 00:19:37

suppress again and

Unknown: 00:19:40

put a mask on right it's it's a tricky, tricky situation to be

Unknown: 00:19:48

in. If you've been closed up for a long time. I can see how that

Unknown: 00:19:51

was maybe hard for you at the beginning.

Unknown: 00:19:55

But if you had a good partner and had a good experience

Unknown: 00:20:00

You know, now that it's totally worth it?

Unknown: 00:20:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown: 00:20:07

Yeah, it's a lot better to be known than to just be in your

Unknown: 00:20:09

own shell. It's funny, you say cup of tea too, because I got my

Unknown: 00:20:12

real gray right here, and so good.

Unknown: 00:20:17

Very classy as usual, David. Awesome.

Unknown: 00:20:22

Thank you. Thank you. Very good, very good. Is there

Unknown: 00:20:27

other things that you've learned in the last couple of years in

Unknown: 00:20:31

the last decade about communicating

Unknown: 00:20:35

in a relationship that you would like to share with? My gosh,

Unknown: 00:20:41

well, I do have an engineering background. So I do have that

Unknown: 00:20:44

very logical mind. You know,

Unknown: 00:20:48

sometimes that's tough for me to deal with. But one thing I've

Unknown: 00:20:51

learned, which is very important, is how to fight fair,

Unknown: 00:20:55

huh, because there are going to be fights. And when you have

Unknown: 00:20:58

your first fight, you need to write it down in your journal

Unknown: 00:21:00

right to make sure, hey, this was our first fight, and we got

Unknown: 00:21:03

over it. But I mean, to fight fair is so important. And what

Unknown: 00:21:07

that entails is basically,

Unknown: 00:21:11

when you have a disagreement, you stay focused on on the topic

Unknown: 00:21:15

at hand, you don't bring up other things outside of that,

Unknown: 00:21:19

you know, I've often heard in the midst of our argument is and

Unknown: 00:21:23

another thing, you know, and it's just like, Alright, if

Unknown: 00:21:26

we're gonna argue about, say the laundry, you argue about it,

Unknown: 00:21:29

what are the points where the good points, the bad points and,

Unknown: 00:21:33

and just stay focused on the topic. And I think a lot of

Unknown: 00:21:36

times to you, you need to just clearly define what it is that

Unknown: 00:21:39

you're mad about or bothered about, as my clock, what you're

Unknown: 00:21:44

mad or bothered about? And, and just stay, I guess, involved in

Unknown: 00:21:49

that. And then when it's over, let it be over. and move on.

Unknown: 00:21:55

Yes. Yeah. don't cling on to stuff and have the mindset of

Unknown: 00:22:02

wanting to resolve instead of accusing and blaming the other

Unknown: 00:22:07

person and, you know, lashing out with your resentment that

Unknown: 00:22:11

you've been holding back on, holding back for, I don't know,

Unknown: 00:22:16

the last days or weeks.

Unknown: 00:22:19

That's very, very important to talk about. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:22:24

Oh, yeah. That's so true. and head towards it. With a goal of

Unknown: 00:22:28

resolution. Yes. Like, we are going to get through these

Unknown: 00:22:32

emotions. And then at the end, it will be fixed. And I'm

Unknown: 00:22:36

looking for her to feel good. I'm looking for me to feel good.

Unknown: 00:22:40

And yeah, so it's really just like Steven Covey says again,

Unknown: 00:22:44

and with Win Win

Unknown: 00:22:47

now, and with a win win solution is what you're heading for. Yes.

Unknown: 00:22:51

Yeah. Then you can trust and just get navigate through it.

Unknown: 00:22:56

And know that. Yeah, it's gonna be over soon. It's just a little

Unknown: 00:23:00

nasty right now. But we both have the same goal.

Unknown: 00:23:05

That's,

Unknown: 00:23:08

yeah, very practice advice. And then when it comes to

Unknown: 00:23:12

No, yeah, sorry. I was gonna say I have a question for you. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:23:17

Specifically for you because you are a multinational.

Unknown: 00:23:22

Have you run into this issue? And how do you deal with it the

Unknown: 00:23:26

the problem of being from another country so you're, you

Unknown: 00:23:29

know, you're from Germany, and part French, but you're in

Unknown: 00:23:32

Canada.

Unknown: 00:23:34

If you were to date an American, how do you do Is there like a

Unknown: 00:23:37

language barrier issue that you've run into or had to work

Unknown: 00:23:41

through before? It's not so much the language barrier, but it is

Unknown: 00:23:46

the way that I was expressing myself. And that goes for my

Unknown: 00:23:51

German self. Same as my French or my, my English self. If you

Unknown: 00:23:57

want to put it that way.

Unknown: 00:23:59

I was not capable to set boundaries or to tell a person

Unknown: 00:24:05

when they make me feel uncomfortable, or

Unknown: 00:24:10

I was not open. I was not trying to create common grounds.

Unknown: 00:24:20

And it has nothing to do with nationality here. I think it's

Unknown: 00:24:24

just the way I, I experienced relationships and just thought

Unknown: 00:24:29

this is how we got to live in a relationship.

Unknown: 00:24:33

What I learned though, here in North America is that people

Unknown: 00:24:37

value politeness, a lot, and non non directness, if you can put

Unknown: 00:24:45

it that way. Not being direct.

Unknown: 00:24:50

is so kind of beating around the bush.

Unknown: 00:24:56

And that's something I had to learn to address and it

Unknown: 00:25:00

It makes me a softer and kind of person, because in Germany,

Unknown: 00:25:05

we're very direct. And you can shut people down with that and

Unknown: 00:25:10

hurt people and make people feel shitty. And then they react. And

Unknown: 00:25:16

you don't understand why.

Unknown: 00:25:19

And here I learned politeness good goes first. So I learned to

Unknown: 00:25:23

be a little more polite and gentle. And to communicate

Unknown: 00:25:30

differently. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:25:33

But it has nothing to do with with my English skills, it has

Unknown: 00:25:38

all to do with how I thought relationship worked. And I must

Unknown: 00:25:45

say, like North American culture helped me to to become

Unknown: 00:25:50

a better communicator. And to know that politeness is good,

Unknown: 00:25:55

sometimes better than directness, but still be honest

Unknown: 00:26:00

and tell the person how you feel. But don't don't do it in a

Unknown: 00:26:04

hurtful way.

Unknown: 00:26:08

Right. Yeah. And I can totally see that. I mean, I lived in

Unknown: 00:26:11

Germany for 10 weeks, and they are very direct. And they'll

Unknown: 00:26:14

tell you, you know, this is how it is. And sometimes it's like,

Unknown: 00:26:18

whoa, hold on a second. But a friend of mine told me once they

Unknown: 00:26:23

said they said tact is the ability to say anything to

Unknown: 00:26:26

anyone, but not elicit negative emotions. And I think tact goes

Unknown: 00:26:31

a long way. Yeah. But from my perspective, with the language

Unknown: 00:26:36

barrier, I have a tough enough time expressing myself in

Unknown: 00:26:39

English. If I had to express myself in German, that would be

Unknown: 00:26:43

hard.

Unknown: 00:26:44

Yeah. Thank god like relationship stuff. As we said

Unknown: 00:26:50

earlier, before the interview, like a lot of things happen

Unknown: 00:26:55

in between the lines and body language.

Unknown: 00:26:59

So people were always kind of understanding what I was going

Unknown: 00:27:05

to say or what I meant. That's just the beauty of in person

Unknown: 00:27:11

interaction.

Unknown: 00:27:15

And it's,

Unknown: 00:27:17

I don't know, I didn't find it more difficult in a foreign

Unknown: 00:27:20

language. I don't know why.

Unknown: 00:27:24

Interesting. Well, you seem to have a very good grasp on the

Unknown: 00:27:27

English language and can express yourself very well. Except it

Unknown: 00:27:30

was off days when you're like, my English is not so good.

Unknown: 00:27:34

Yeah, I really have those days when I'm fishing for my words,

Unknown: 00:27:39

and they just don't want to come forward. But yeah, I don't I

Unknown: 00:27:43

don't take it as an excuse not to show up.

Unknown: 00:27:49

Yeah.

Unknown: 00:27:51

Is there

Unknown: 00:27:53

any other area like we had communication and setting

Unknown: 00:27:58

boundaries, as a man

Unknown: 00:28:02

that you would like to talk about when it comes to

Unknown: 00:28:05

relationships that you like can put a finger on it or something

Unknown: 00:28:09

you always wanted to know?

Unknown: 00:28:13

Like the answer from a woman when it comes to relationships?

Unknown: 00:28:20

Is there anything that you think are you guys don't make sense in

Unknown: 00:28:24

this area? Or why do you do this? I had a conversation about

Unknown: 00:28:28

nagging the other day.

Unknown: 00:28:32

That's more Yeah, something that women do I feel men can do that

Unknown: 00:28:37

too. But is there something you would like to ask or share

Unknown: 00:28:44

from your past or maybe present?

Unknown: 00:28:49

I'm kind of coming up blank, but the only thing I can think of is

Unknown: 00:28:53

Why do women go to the bathroom and pears?

Unknown: 00:28:59

Really good question.

Unknown: 00:29:03

So I'm just going to share from my experience other women might

Unknown: 00:29:07

answer it in a different way.

Unknown: 00:29:11

When I go to the bathroom with my

Unknown: 00:29:14

girlfriends, it's to discuss quickly what the next move is

Unknown: 00:29:20

going to be or what we want.

Unknown: 00:29:23

Do we want to stay? Do we want want to go somewhere else is the

Unknown: 00:29:26

guy who just started talking to you. Good for you. Or do you

Unknown: 00:29:31

want me to scare them off?

Unknown: 00:29:34

so seriously, you can talk about the boys right? Yeah, and then

Unknown: 00:29:40

also like, bullshit stuff like Oh, I love your makeup. What

Unknown: 00:29:44

kind of lipstick is this?

Unknown: 00:29:47

Oh, I'm on my period. Can you give me a tampon? Like, maybe

Unknown: 00:29:51

maybe this is all you guys imagine? We were talking about

Unknown: 00:29:55

and Yeah, it is. It is what we talk about.

Unknown: 00:29:59

Ah,

Unknown: 00:30:00

Ah, wonderful. All the mysteries are solved.

Unknown: 00:30:06

Yes. Yeah, I hope it was in depth enough.

Unknown: 00:30:14

So do you have a question about from a female's perspective?

Unknown: 00:30:18

What you've always wondered about guys either dating or, or

Unknown: 00:30:21

otherwise? Or what we're thinking or why sometimes we

Unknown: 00:30:24

don't think before we do something or say something. Mm

Unknown: 00:30:28

hmm. That's when I like guys most when they don't think.

Unknown: 00:30:34

Because it's

Unknown: 00:30:36

it's a natural state to be in. I would love to know what guys

Unknown: 00:30:42

think about feminism. And the me to movement if you've heard

Unknown: 00:30:47

about it. And if you think that feminism is outdated, or if you

Unknown: 00:30:54

think feminism is a good thing, and yeah, there should be more

Unknown: 00:30:58

women out there.

Unknown: 00:31:02

Being active in feminism.

Unknown: 00:31:06

Wow, we are really going deep on this podcast, are we? Well, is

Unknown: 00:31:10

that a surprise to you?

Unknown: 00:31:14

It should not be?

Unknown: 00:31:17

Well, I will This is my views speaking from a male's

Unknown: 00:31:21

perspective, and also a Christian perspective is, I

Unknown: 00:31:24

think women should be able to do practically whatever they want,

Unknown: 00:31:29

I don't think that women should be repressed. I think if

Unknown: 00:31:33

anything is available to them job wise, or career wise, you

Unknown: 00:31:36

know, go for it. It's the land of opportunity. I guess Canada

Unknown: 00:31:40

is the same way in North America, I don't know. But there

Unknown: 00:31:44

is a problem with being over feminine, to where, and this

Unknown: 00:31:50

goes back to the dating is.

Unknown: 00:31:53

If you are too focused on the feminine to be the dominant

Unknown: 00:31:57

gender, it removes the roles that the males have. And that's

Unknown: 00:32:03

what I've found in dating is that

Unknown: 00:32:06

if a woman says she can do everything, and this I see on a

Unknown: 00:32:10

lot of profiles is that they're an independent woman and they

Unknown: 00:32:13

don't need a guy. Well, the truth is, if you don't need a

Unknown: 00:32:16

guy, then I don't have a role to fall into. Exactly. You know,

Unknown: 00:32:21

you might be adept at, let's say, plumbing, or electrical

Unknown: 00:32:25

work, and you your toilet fails, you need a new toilet. So you go

Unknown: 00:32:30

to the hardware store, you buy a new toilet, you learn how to

Unknown: 00:32:32

change it, you know, whatever. And maybe in the guy who went

Unknown: 00:32:35

well, I could do that. And you're like, No, I don't need

Unknown: 00:32:37

it. But honestly, if you if you know how to do that stuff, or if

Unknown: 00:32:41

you know how to wire you in kitchen, you can but if you give

Unknown: 00:32:45

the guy in in, say, David,

Unknown: 00:32:48

I need this wiring gun in my kitchen, can you help? I can't

Unknown: 00:32:52

do it. You know, I'd be more than happy to say yes, I will do

Unknown: 00:32:56

that. I know how to do it. This is great. This is my job. Even

Unknown: 00:33:00

if you could do it, offer it to him anyway. Because that gives

Unknown: 00:33:04

him a spot to take a spot to fill. Yes. And so being

Unknown: 00:33:08

independent isn't so much a need or necessity as it is to give

Unknown: 00:33:14

that role or any role a role to the guy. So I think feminism a

Unknown: 00:33:18

lot of times takes away those roles.

Unknown: 00:33:21

That you know, men and women generally tend to fall in

Unknown: 00:33:24

certain roles. Men, women be the nurturers. Yeah. And men being

Unknown: 00:33:28

the warriors and the breadwinners. Yeah, and I think

Unknown: 00:33:31

together, we can form that image of a perfect union of a perfect

Unknown: 00:33:35

couple that no two of us no one of us can do on our own. Yes.

Unknown: 00:33:42

Yes. Oh, my God, I'm so glad we brought that up. Because this is

Unknown: 00:33:48

exactly what I feel is going on. out there right now. There's so

Unknown: 00:33:53

many women who are fighting for independency and they are fear

Unknown: 00:33:58

driven and aggressive. At the same time they want to be dating

Unknown: 00:34:02

and want to be held and you know, be given roses. But a man

Unknown: 00:34:09

is repulsed like is scared of these women and is not going to

Unknown: 00:34:15

be the masculine

Unknown: 00:34:18

part that he can and wants to be because the woman is playing

Unknown: 00:34:23

both sides. And I feel women who are too caught up in the

Unknown: 00:34:31

feminism shoot themselves in the own heel or back or however you

Unknown: 00:34:35

say that an English

Unknown: 00:34:37

foot or foot awesome. I had all my my joints here.

Unknown: 00:34:45

Because it is it is like a mass emotional mass castration that

Unknown: 00:34:53

is going on out there and men don't know Okay, which one

Unknown: 00:34:56

should we play? We want to be there for you. We want

Unknown: 00:35:00

protect you, we want to guide you. And women want to be

Unknown: 00:35:04

protected and guided. But the women that are out there right

Unknown: 00:35:09

now, not all of them, of course, but some are so aggressive and

Unknown: 00:35:16

think that they have to do it all. And men are the problem.

Unknown: 00:35:22

But they don't see that they themselves are blocking

Unknown: 00:35:27

themselves from a genuine,

Unknown: 00:35:31

happy relationship with a man. Unless the man is willing to

Unknown: 00:35:38

give his masculinity up at the door. And to, I don't know, mold

Unknown: 00:35:45

into some feminine, or non gender,

Unknown: 00:35:51

creature, it works. But if the man wants to be the man and

Unknown: 00:35:56

wants to play that role in a woman's life, it's not gonna

Unknown: 00:36:00

work. It's like two magnets of the same pole. They're not gonna

Unknown: 00:36:05

attract each other.

Unknown: 00:36:09

Yeah, and then we have a whole host of other problems. And even

Unknown: 00:36:11

even if the man does choose to be emasculated and come into

Unknown: 00:36:14

that role, where the woman still takes on the masculine roles.

Unknown: 00:36:19

Yeah, you know, it's, it's basically, there, I say it

Unknown: 00:36:23

against his nature. Yeah, because that's how we deal with

Unknown: 00:36:26

I mean, if you look at if you look at all animals, and humans

Unknown: 00:36:30

in particular, the males are bigger than the females, they're

Unknown: 00:36:34

stronger, they're taller, and you can just look around at

Unknown: 00:36:37

society and see this and look around in nature. And it's the

Unknown: 00:36:40

same way. I had a German Shepherd, you know, and he was

Unknown: 00:36:43

he was an awfully large dog and German Shepherds, the females

Unknown: 00:36:46

tend to be slightly smaller,

Unknown: 00:36:49

and the male sheperson be slightly bigger.

Unknown: 00:36:53

So yes, they do have that males are given that protective role.

Unknown: 00:36:58

But yeah, just like what you're saying is if they, they are

Unknown: 00:37:03

subservient to the female with their own roles, then they lose

Unknown: 00:37:07

their place. Yeah. And then and I think that's, that would be

Unknown: 00:37:11

trouble for, for that couple. Totally. Because the

Unknown: 00:37:15

attractiveness of attractiveness, sorry, goes out

Unknown: 00:37:19

the window at the same time to the woman is not going to be

Unknown: 00:37:23

attracted to that guy anymore. Even though she forces him into

Unknown: 00:37:27

that role.

Unknown: 00:37:29

On a chemistry level, she will not be attracted to him anymore,

Unknown: 00:37:34

if he substance submits to that. And I feel women's Yeah, and

Unknown: 00:37:38

she's not gonna be able to respect him either. Exactly. And

Unknown: 00:37:42

the guy himself is not going to respect himself, either. And

Unknown: 00:37:47

that's

Unknown: 00:37:48

where depression and everything can start. So yeah, women should

Unknown: 00:37:53

should be finding their femininity again and feel

Unknown: 00:37:58

empowered and feminine again, and not trying to take on the

Unknown: 00:38:03

man's role. And think that's the new feminine. No, because it is

Unknown: 00:38:08

not. It's just, as we said, like emasculating, and causing

Unknown: 00:38:15

troubles on so many levels. When it comes to relationships.

Unknown: 00:38:22

I feel Yeah, it's very important to talk about. And we're slowly

Unknown: 00:38:28

coming to an end here, we we hit the 40 minutes here.

Unknown: 00:38:33

Is there 40 minutes is up. I know, is there something you

Unknown: 00:38:37

would like to add? When it comes to

Unknown: 00:38:42

fighting fair? boundaries, communication,

Unknown: 00:38:47

role models?

Unknown: 00:38:51

I think one of the most important things in

Unknown: 00:38:54

relationships is to be kind.

Unknown: 00:38:58

And to know that your partner is a part of you.

Unknown: 00:39:03

You know, you wouldn't be cruel to yourself. And the truth is

Unknown: 00:39:07

that it's a joint venture, that if you were not kind to them,

Unknown: 00:39:12

it's like you're not being kind to yourself. You know, I always

Unknown: 00:39:15

always thought about rolls around the house, if, if the

Unknown: 00:39:18

dishes don't get washed, if I don't wash them, then she has

Unknown: 00:39:22

to. And if she doesn't, then I have to. So you might as well

Unknown: 00:39:26

pick up the slack because you're you're a team. And that's how

Unknown: 00:39:29

you have to work. And I think one of the other most important

Unknown: 00:39:32

things is communication. I've always said that. I don't know

Unknown: 00:39:37

how you're thinking or feeling unless you tell me. Sometimes

Unknown: 00:39:40

you gotta tell me two or three times because sometimes I'm just

Unknown: 00:39:43

oblivious or I'm watching TV or doing something else.

Unknown: 00:39:47

But to tell me, sometimes I'm just clueless. And so let me

Unknown: 00:39:53

know what you're thinking and feeling. With tact ideally, but

Unknown: 00:39:57

without you're that committed.

Unknown: 00:40:00

case in part and say, hey, look, this is how I feel right now.

Unknown: 00:40:05

I don't want you to know that and then knowing that I can

Unknown: 00:40:08

respond. But in a way if you don't communicate that

Unknown: 00:40:13

it's partly your fault.

Unknown: 00:40:15

Because unless you tell me, or somehow I, since I'm not gonna

Unknown: 00:40:19

know. So kindness and communication are both very

Unknown: 00:40:22

important in any relationship. Yes. That's, yeah, such a

Unknown: 00:40:29

beautiful wrap up of the episode. It's

Unknown: 00:40:34

very genuine and from the heart and just things that we have to

Unknown: 00:40:39

hear a times because women can maybe sense things or read in

Unknown: 00:40:45

between lines. But we can expect our partner to be doing that and

Unknown: 00:40:51

have to know and trust that if we express ourselves, we will be

Unknown: 00:40:55

heard. And we will meet

Unknown: 00:40:58

together and work things out together. Yeah. Very, very

Unknown: 00:41:04

beautiful. Absolutely. Thank you so so much, David, for being

Unknown: 00:41:08

here today. On the floor. This was great.

Unknown: 00:41:13

This was wonderful.

Unknown: 00:41:16

Yeah, there was a little bit of a delay here and between us. But

Unknown: 00:41:22

yeah, thank you so much for listening to this interview with

Unknown: 00:41:27

David Lee, it is very important to keep the balance to keep some

Unknown: 00:41:34

good positive tension in between men and women. But I think the

Unknown: 00:41:41

main message here is we got to communicate honestly, we have to

Unknown: 00:41:46

be kind with each other. And know that we both want the same.

Unknown: 00:41:52

We're on a team. We're together in this and we want to

Unknown: 00:42:00

support each other and be there for each other.

Unknown: 00:42:04

This won't be the last interview, were asked for a

Unknown: 00:42:09

man's perspective. I feel it is very important to talk about in

Unknown: 00:42:14

those times right now. So yes, stay tuned and we will be out

Unknown: 00:42:21

there very soon again for you. Bye