Shownotes
We tackle a series of discussions shaping Ohio's political and economic landscape.
We talk about President Trump's controversial tariffs and how they aim to reshape half a century of U.S. economic policy, with concerns about the impact on Ohio's economy.
We also discuss Intel's broken contract with Ohio, raising questions about the state's investment and future job opportunities.
We look at Ohio's beef with DOGE, a rise in sales tax, and the immense power held by federal judges.
Join us as we navigate these pressing issues, bringing common sense back to the conversation.
Common Sense Moments
00:00 "Martin Luther King Assassination Day"
08:13 Dependence on China: Security Risk
14:39 "Strategy Over Ideals Concerns"
18:16 Senate Bill Concerns on Tariffs
25:21 Trump's Personality Undermines Agenda
30:29 Intel-Related Hazards and Environmental Concerns
34:20 Tax Incentives for Corporate Attraction
36:22 Federal Funding Cuts Impact Services
43:28 Central Ohio Transit Tax Increase
50:45 Judicial Overreach and Forum Shopping
52:32 "Debating Ohio's Court of Claims"
59:10 "Distracted Driving Incident Warning"
Common Sense Takeaways
Tariff Talk [00:00:00 - 00:17:43] We talk about the complex world of tariffs, discussing their economic implications and the potential reshoring of American industry. Is the bombastic approach to tariffs a double-edged sword? We raise essential points about accountability and long-term vision in trade negotiations.
2. Intel's Contract Fiasco [00:17:44 - 00:36:22] With Intel breaking its commitment to the OhioOne project in Johnstown, OH, we dissect the intricate details of a contract that leaves Ohio taxpayers in a lurch. From traffic woes to economic uncertainty, this segment explores the real-life impacts of corporate decisions on local communities.
3. Tales of the Courts [00:36:23 - 00:55:15] Steve brings his legal expertise to address the power and checks of federal judges. Is it time for a judicial reform to curb forum shopping and prevent single judges from influencing national policies? The conversation shifts to potential solutions that could bring more balance and fairness to federal court proceedings.
4. A Valediction for Val Kilmer [00:55:16 - 01:05:16] In our heartfelt tribute, we remember the immense talent of Val Kilmer, whose roles have left an indelible mark on Hollywood. Whether you knew him as the Iceman or Doc Holiday, his legacy will undoubtedly remain cherished.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2025 Common Sense Ohio
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson, My Podcast Guy®, is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Transcripts
It is that time again for your weekly dose of Common Sense, Common Sense Ohio, April four two thousand twenty five. Coming up, we're gonna be talking about tariffs. Intel breaks its contract with Ohio. That's gonna really upset Norm, I think. Ohio's got a big beef with Doge, sales tax on the rise. But how do we compare with Florida and Texas? We shall see. And why my dad was right, federal judges have the most power in the entire world of anybody ever except for maybe the holy ghost himself. So, anyway, commonsenseohioshow.com.
Steve Palmer [:If you've got a topic you want us to cover, shoot us a message. We are gonna jump right into it. And and, actually, by the way, brought to you by Harper Plus accounting. We'll talk more about, Glenn Harper and his people over there during their misery.
Norm Murdock [:Oh. Oh.
Brett Johnson [:It hunkered down. I hunkered down.
Steve Palmer [:Hunkered down, buried I could just see
Norm Murdock [:Oh, god.
Steve Palmer [:You just see him over there with a green hat.
Norm Murdock [:Anyway Yep.
Brett Johnson [:That that that would be something Glenn would put on.
Steve Palmer [:That would be He would. He would. I would
Norm Murdock [:if I
Steve Palmer [:were an accountant. Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:The last ten to five days put on the green hat just, you know, drive everybody crazy.
Steve Palmer [:So 04/04/2025, this day in history, lot you know, some interesting stuff happened to understand it. Martin Luther King assassination, of course, is the, top of the list. And how do you ignore that? You can't. I mean, one of the most influential people assassinated still, you know, but not a whole lot of controversy about that one. At least at least we don't have, like, the Kennedy files getting dropped and, the conspiracy. I think we we do have a lone shooter in James Earl Ray. Changed the course of history a little bit. But, look, I think those who would go back and read and listen to Martin Luther King's message, it is not consistent with the message we're getting today.
Steve Palmer [:So I will go no further with that. I thought it was also an honorable mention. Bill Gates and Paul Allen founded Microsoft today, interestingly.
Brett Johnson [:That's that's, you know, that's another merger there, quote, unquote, that kinda changed how we live.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. Change how we live.
Brett Johnson [:It's yeah. We we both have computers on the table here. Not that it's their making, but
Norm Murdock [:Yep.
Brett Johnson [:It's them.
Steve Palmer [:And I I am currently, on my personal professional life, grappling with Microsoft versus Apple. I have a cracked screen on my PC, Normie, or my laptop here, and I
Norm Murdock [:Oh, I see that.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I am, I am in the process and, you know, it's such a decisions decisions. But Yeah. Anyway, so far, it's Microsoft. As much as I wanna love Apple, the Switches might be too much for me. It just might be too much for me.
Brett Johnson [:It just might be too much.
Steve Palmer [:It's like I I mean, at 55, it's just a little too much to ask to learn and
Brett Johnson [:You know, there are pros and cons to both systems. I get it, but I guess I just lean toward at myself, Apple, because of the ecosystem. It just works and plays together, and, but once you start, you're kind of in it.
Steve Palmer [:You're in it. Right? Yeah. Anna? I I would be an Apple guy, but I'm gonna confess about fifteen years ago, they pissed me off. I I needed a new phone, and I went down to the Verizon store, which used to be down here on South High. It was it was on this floor. My office used to be on this floor, and I drove down there, got a new phone, came back, and did their little Apple backup or whatever, and I lost everything. It got it got lost. So but now that was before I had so much on my phone.
Steve Palmer [:Like, it wasn't as bad as it would be today. Okay. Because we're going way back. And, you know, their Apple whatever backup didn't work or I I'm sure it was user error.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Their cloud.
Steve Palmer [:But they were forcing me into a certain way, and I didn't I I didn't I don't know. I I it's my fault.
Norm Murdock [:But
Brett Johnson [:But But It still affects you fifteen years later.
Steve Palmer [:Shot myself in the foot, so to speak, and I went out.
Norm Murdock [:They should have done the backup for you in the store.
Steve Palmer [:I think I don't remember if it was delivered to me. I I can't remember. I may not have gone down and picked it up. But back in that day, we had, like, a Verizon guy that was bringing our phones. I maybe it was something like that. I don't know. Wow. But, anyway, I went down I then I drove down to the Verizon store and said, give me what is what is the other version of this? Right.
Steve Palmer [:And they handed me a Samsung Galaxy, and I've had that ever since. Now look, it that's got its own quirks and problems.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But damn it. I'm not gonna admit that I was wrong. And so I don't I have a different color bubble on everybody's text. I can't get videos now because they're all blurry. Apple throttles them back, or I can't send videos.
Norm Murdock [:I'm the tech
Steve Palmer [:They just throttle them back.
Norm Murdock [:I'm no tech guy, but talking to Brett, Brett has told me that basic you know, it used to be you needed to have PC software versus Apple software. And I think you told me pretty much you can run, PC compatible software now on Apple?
Brett Johnson [:It seems to be. Yeah. For the most part.
Norm Murdock [:For the
Steve Palmer [:most part. So I can run my Microsoft three so look. I run upstairs in my office on Microsoft three sixty five. I run I run the Microsoft apps. I don't use any of the Apple stuff or any of the Google stuff. And in theory, I can run the apps right on my That's what they say. MacBook. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So But the hardware is about 30% more expensive. 20 or 30% more expensive. Right. I I just I'm I'm test driving a Microsoft Surface seven laptop, and it's pretty cool.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I'm gonna go test drive an Apple MacBook Pro or Air or whatever.
Norm Murdock [:Isn't that what the NFL uses, that Surface? They make a big deal about it. It's like combat resistant. I
Steve Palmer [:don't know. I I don't have the one you know, it's it looks like this, but it's it's a Microsoft. And it it does feel just like an it's like Microsoft's response to the Apple Yeah. MacBook Air. It's a nice piece of hardware. But, anyway, that's that's my internal And
Norm Murdock [:those two need to sponsor our show.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Right. No. So Apple or Mac do you Apple or my or Bill? Bill or, what's the other guys? He's dead.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Paul Allen, you're talking about? No.
Steve Palmer [:No. The guy who founded Apple.
Norm Murdock [:Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Al. God. Whatever.
Brett Johnson [:We all know who it is.
Norm Murdock [:This is where we need, anyway. So where's Troy?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I can't even think of the guy who played him. I can't even think of the guy who played him in the movie, Mary Demi Moore.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, I get
Brett Johnson [:to the Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Tim Tim something?
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. No. No. He was in, that seventies show.
Norm Murdock [:The German guy anyway. No.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. No. No. Alright. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Steve Palmer [:So off we go. News with Norm, everybody's favorite segment. And we gave you a little bit of rundown, but now I'm curious because, Norm, you gave me the highlights. I wanna hear the details.
Norm Murdock [:Well, this tariffs thing so, you know, a lot of pain yesterday on the market. It went down roughly 4%, which is not a one or 2% correction. That's a that's a major dive. And, you know, if if, you look at your four zero one k, you'll be horrified basically across the board. People are pretty horrified. But, you know, I I I'm so I'll tell you why. I personally am willing to sacrifice, and I'm only speaking for myself, not my colleagues, that, you know, they'll tell you how they feel. But Trump basically is trying to recraft almost a half a century of of US economic policy by doing these tariffs.
Norm Murdock [:So what are his goals? Okay? He wants he's trying to reshore and reindustrialize The US after the nightmare of NAFTA and letting China in the World Trade Organization, which was a disastrous decision. Okay? And and, basically, you know, they're tariffing us, but we're not tariffing them until Trump comes along and imposes pretty stiff tariffs on China. So we're trying to get our industry back. You know, I remember, Ross Perot. You know, what's that giant sucking sound you hear? Those are your jobs going to Mexico and China. And and, hey, he was right. He was right. NAFTA was a disaster.
Norm Murdock [:The the second thing he's trying to do, Trump, is solidify our national security. So we remember during COVID, for example, there were there were many medications, pharmaceuticals. There were supplies or what they call PPP. You know? They got a, you know, an initial for you know, they got something for everything. But, basically, things like, silicon chips for industry. You might remember during COVID, General Motors had pickup trucks they couldn't complete, and they told owners, you know, come back when we have the chips, and then your seats will work and your radio, but we don't have the chips right now. So they did crazy stuff like that. Steel, aluminum, and as I said, pharmaceuticals.
Norm Murdock [:We do not even have a single producer of aspirin in The United States. Just like you know? So so if if we get into either a trade war or get into a hot war with, say, China, we are thoroughly screwed. We're thoroughly screwed, and he's trying to set up our economy to where we can, survive a long term, embargo like we have with Russia right now. But we don't buy much from Russia. But, basically, we have no trade with Russia. If we did no trade with China, like, you know, over human rights, let's say, or they invade Taiwan, oh my god. Like, there'll be nothing at Walmart to buy if we cut off China. So it's a national security issue.
Norm Murdock [:And I understand fighter jets and our bombers have stuff made in communist China installed in them and in the computers that Pentagon uses. The third thing, and then I'm done, is he's obviously trying to level the economic playing field. And this is where, like, the UAW, which did not endorse Trump for president, is now all of a sudden his best buddy. Because what they're what he's trying to do like, India has a 100% tariff on US made motorcycles. So Harley Davidson, Indian, you know, some of the, boutique manufacturers. It's double the price in India. Right? So they don't import US bikes. Germany has a 20% tariff on cars made in The US.
Norm Murdock [:Guess what our tariff is on German made cars up until now? Two and one half percent. Okay? 20% on our stuff. Okay? And we tariff them a little over 2%. Japan, a % tariff on rice. Canada, a % tariff on our dairy products. So Thomas Sowell has said what Trump is doing. Thomas Sowell, we love him, 94 years old, came out on YouTube the this week and said Trump is what he's doing is an utter disaster. But what I would ask professor Sowell, whom I love, and I I regard him as brilliant, is, well, wait a minute.
Norm Murdock [:Why aren't you telling that to the other countries that are tariffing the shit out of us? So anyway, guys.
Brett Johnson [:I I'm concerned about it as well too. I think we all are at the table to a certain degree because and I guess my question to both of you is and I was thinking about this this whole week knowing that this, Liberation Day, I think it's what it was called.
Norm Murdock [:It's what
Steve Palmer [:it was called.
Brett Johnson [:What it call. Is okay. So it's like a seven step process or 10. I don't know. Whatever it is. And we've seen the first couple of steps of the proclamation and now he signed it in. Yeah. And and we know what the end result's going to be.
Brett Johnson [:It gets all leveled out. Out. But when does it end? What's the end run here? Is are we talking that we bring it so some of it is that industry comes back. Who the hell monitors that?
Norm Murdock [:I'm I'm
Brett Johnson [:as as an example, Intel. Intel. We're just gonna talk about it.
Norm Murdock [:Department of Commerce. That's that's who monitored.
Brett Johnson [:And how long do we allow these how long is this tariffs gonna be in place?
Norm Murdock [:Well, Trump Trump said on Air Force One yesterday, so he had one of those gaggle press conferences. Yeah. And he said, already so this this affects a 80 other countries.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. Okay. And he said, already, almost all of them, have contacted the administration. They wanna negotiate a trade agreement.
Steve Palmer [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Israel reduced their tariffs on US made stuff to zero.
Brett Johnson [:So Should've been that way in the first place
Steve Palmer [:for them.
Brett Johnson [:What the hell?
Norm Murdock [:But Trump that's what you know? Yeah. And Honda was gonna build that plant in Mexico. But because of the tariff threat, that it's now going to Indiana.
Brett Johnson [:That was that was in November, though.
Norm Murdock [:Well, but that was a major dis or get who got elected in November?
Brett Johnson [:Well, what I'm saying is that decision was before but but it's happening, which is which is great.
Norm Murdock [:He ran on tariffs.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That was that was a threat of tariffs caused that.
Brett Johnson [:That's right. Okay. Anyway anyway. But I I guess it's that. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, we're just talking about Apple. Five hundred billion. They're gonna start building a new one.
Brett Johnson [:And as long because I'm not hearing, and you are, which is great. So I want the I want the the answer to the questions.
Steve Palmer [:Like, who is Mark and who is monitoring? My beef.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly. The devil in the details. Who in the hell is monitoring this that it's just not a signed piece of paper? Okay. We'll take the tariffs away, and nothing comes of this, and we feel the pain.
Steve Palmer [:I I I think
Brett Johnson [:I I I just wanna make sure it's happening.
Steve Palmer [:I'm with you. Yeah. Look. Here here's the problem, and I agree with Thomas Sowell in a lot of ways. Because, look, on the one hand, you can look at tariffs like I think you're looking at a more surgically norm. There's a goal and there's a plan and we're gonna, it's gonna be executed. And I think, Brett, you're saying, yeah. I mean, if there's a plan and it's gonna be executed, we monitor it and we we do something about and we, we make sure that we keep our fingers on the switches here.
Steve Palmer [:That's
Brett Johnson [:We had a terrible job of doing that, though.
Norm Murdock [:Right. But then
Brett Johnson [:We don't do that well. But Trump We don't.
Steve Palmer [:Look. I I agree with almost everything he's done since he's been in an office. And I I it's not that I completely disagree with all these tariffs, but I completely disagree with his messaging around all these tariffs. He's he's bombastic about it and say, oh, we're gonna tariff. Tariffs are a wonderful thing. Tariffs are great. And everybody's thinking, well, no. I mean, maybe.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. But why? What's the plan? Yeah. And, you know, Norman, you've got three reasons why you like them and why they might be a good plan. And at the same time, we're thinking, alright. So why are we in this battle with Canada? And, and I don't think I think some of these you have to look at a little more nuanced. I don't think you can just say, well, Canada taxes are dairy a % and, you know, maybe maybe there's a negotiating, lever that way. But we're not I guess, not all not all products going out are equivalent to those products going in. Trade deficits aren't bad.
Steve Palmer [:You know, you we can because we don't make everything, and the other countries don't make everything. So we're gonna have a deficit on certain things, and they're gonna have a deficit on other things. Now cars to cars out of Germany, look, I that makes some sense to me. Look, Germany, you're gonna tax our cars at 20%. We're gonna tax your cars at 20%. Yeah. And now we're even Steven, or we can both do zero. How about that? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And and I think that makes some sense to me. And that was Trump's message in his in his, in his address to congress. Yeah. But it doesn't come off that way always. It's it's a little bit more bombastic. I'm just gonna keep raising tariffs. Well, that's a trade war, and nobody wins a trade war. And that was Thomas Sowell's point.
Steve Palmer [:That's disastrous. And here's a bigger problem that I have with all of it, and I get the goals, and they're all great goals. But we have a anybody who thinks that, because the Republicans won and tended to win big across the country and, you know, maybe a rejection of a lot of this, crazy stuff going on on the far left, You're you're giving them a foothold, man. And look, sometimes you gotta sometimes you gotta sacrifice a little bit of the cause to to stay in power and take inches, you know, take incremental gains here. You can't do it all at once. And I I fear that if this continues and the economy tanks, then we don't get reelected. And, you know, then you've lost everything, then it's all gone. You know? So you're going for broke here a little bit, and he doesn't need to.
Steve Palmer [:He can do this incrementally. He can start with Germany and say, alright, Germany. Look. You got 20 on BMW or, 20% on Chevys, Fords, and and and, Chryslers coming into your country. How about we just drop that or we do the same thing on BMWs and whatever? I think they'd probably say okay. And like you said, Norm, a 80 countries already agreed, but that's not the message people are getting. It's like, we're gonna tear the f out of everybody and screw you people, and we're gonna be fortress America. It doesn't work, and that's Thomas Sowell's point.
Steve Palmer [:It's never worked.
Norm Murdock [:Well, Rand Rand Paul, same way. And, you know, some of the senate Republicans have joined with Democrats on a bill that requires the president to justify the tariffs or the tariffs go away after sixty days. Wow. Fair enough. So yes.
Steve Palmer [:I like that. Yeah. Yeah. I and I and I I have not researched this. Yeah. I don't know the lever of power that the executive branch has to enforce tariffs. I don't know if that's a congressional problem or or executive problem. I'll look it up or somebody else can comment and tell me.
Steve Palmer [:I I've not done the constitutional research on it. I meant to today. Yeah. You know, is it is it something that the executive branch of government has the authority
Norm Murdock [:to do? Well, I I think I think it does because they're not contesting his right to do it, but they're going to limit it. So so that's what the point of this senate bill is.
Steve Palmer [:And I think that's good. See, I love I love it when the federal government gets limited in power on almost anything, you know, or or or it has to answer to the other side on some things and not the other things. Because then then we have this sort of not not a not a smooth balance, but just this, you know, a more delicate balance of power.
Norm Murdock [:Let me just float a couple things. So, what I see your point about instead of doing some kind of universal one day, it all goes into effect as opposed to country by country negotiating.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that could all happen on one day. But you would say, look. Germany's got this just like you did. Germany's got this. We're gonna do that. Well, I I think China now China's a different now China
Norm Murdock [:And and the tariff is much higher than
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Than the 10% to 20% on China. I think it's, like, 34 per like, it's seriously steep.
Steve Palmer [:And then and then Mexico, to your point, Norm, there's some there's some snakes in the grass on some of this stuff because, you know, our cars get made in Mexico, but they're importing stuff from China. Like, you know Oh, yeah. There is a
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:There's stuff that the that the others are not talking about.
Norm Murdock [:They do with fentanyl.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Chinese, you know, components of this drug that's then mixed in barrels in Mexico and brought across.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. So there is a there's a message there that I think needs to be Yeah. Floated. You know, China is supplying stuff to Mexico, and then we're having to pay, for that. So it's like that's you know, we have a different problem with China Yeah. And that requires, I think, a a far more detailed, strategic solution.
Norm Murdock [:I think the problem that I have with the senate bill with with see, you know, obviously, the congress has to ratify treaties. Right? That's right in the constitution. But on tariffs, the problem that I would have is that then when the executive, whether it's Trump or JD Vance or who do ever down the road, if this bill were to pass, when they're negotiating, let's say, with Germany or France or England or whoever
Steve Palmer [:That's a good point.
Norm Murdock [:You know what I mean? Like, they gotta then
Steve Palmer [:say, hey, this is all yeah. Yeah. You can't dilute the power to the point where
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:The the whoever's negotiating the tariffs can't negotiate them without approval.
Norm Murdock [:And then they gotta go back to congress and get it rubber stamped or else, I'm sorry, mister president Macron. I you and I agree on this tariff, you know, but now now I gotta take it back to Congress. And if it's a political Congress that wants to make you look bad.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's the other problem. They're gonna vote it, Carlos. The Congress is doing whatever it can just to make Trump look bad. So they they will they will shoot the country in the foot to make Trump look bad. Right. That is or his opponents will. And and that's been the Trump derangement syndrome. Like, we don't care about anything good the man does.
Steve Palmer [:It's always horrible no matter what, and he's the worst guy that's ever lived on the planet. He's bad. He's
Norm Murdock [:Like the Houthi thing. He has this amazing military operation that now the Suez Canal is open again
Steve Palmer [:Right. Imagine now.
Norm Murdock [:To freighters.
Steve Palmer [:Prices are gonna start cutting.
Norm Murdock [:So nobody is nobody's celebrating that. Instead, they wanna talk about a guy who got on the telephone call, you know, without permission. And it's like, really? Yeah. That that's the story? Isn't the story about how the Suez is But look. I
Steve Palmer [:I I I I listen and watch enough to the conservatives. Like, there there are people out there, no matter what Trump does, it's always right. And there are people out there, no matter what Trump does, it's always wrong.
Norm Murdock [:Wrong. Right?
Steve Palmer [:And I think like anything in human affairs, it's somewhere in the middle. He's not always right. He's not an omnipotent super Superman.
Norm Murdock [:It was a mistake to have that reporter on the telephone. Terrible.
Steve Palmer [:No. Like I mean, I feel like Two things are true. Yeah. That's a security blunder of the highest order. Well And
Brett Johnson [:a a crew group.
Norm Murdock [:Of a high order.
Steve Palmer [:Of a high order.
Norm Murdock [:Maybe not the highest.
Steve Palmer [:Not the highest, but a a very high order. Like, it was a blunder. Right. Yes.
Norm Murdock [:It was.
Steve Palmer [:By every measure.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. It was.
Steve Palmer [:And then what's his dick from the Atlantic? You know, f you, dude. Right. Because you think that you're you're you're being mister martyr. Well, I'm not gonna publish the what I thought was top secret stuff. Why didn't you text somebody back and say, I don't think I should be on this, guys. Yeah. We this may be a matter of national security.
Norm Murdock [:You made a
Steve Palmer [:mistake. Double check your recipients. Yeah. I've done that on text message. I have done that. Yeah. Don't think I'm supposed to be on this. There was a there was a text in my family at one point Right.
Steve Palmer [:Talking about me, you know, talking about me Yeah. And and, you know, stupid, nasty, ugly Yeah. Kissy family business.
Norm Murdock [:Do you know what dad did? You know? And you're like, hey. Guys, dad's on here.
Steve Palmer [:I was like, guys, I I don't think you meant to include me on this. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And and to that end, the the the Atlantic editor didn't publish until after all was done, so give him credit there. But, no,
Norm Murdock [:I agree. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But he's
Brett Johnson [:like, you know what? To to trap him. Grass. Like, he's snake in the grass, kinda waiting, but good and bad. Good and bad. You're
Steve Palmer [:exactly right.
Norm Murdock [:The same guy who pushed the Russia collusion hoax.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, screw
Norm Murdock [:that guy. He's got a history.
Steve Palmer [:That that guy that guy's that guy's intent was was to was to take down was to was to create a scandal and take down Trump. Person. That was his intent. Because if if if it were Biden Yeah. I always look at this this way. If it were Biden and this happened in the Biden regime, do you does anybody really think for a second We wouldn't even split second
Norm Murdock [:We wouldn't even know.
Steve Palmer [:This Atlantic guy would have, said, guys, I shouldn't be on this.
Norm Murdock [:We wouldn't even know about it.
Steve Palmer [:If it's in the Trump if it's under the Trump hat, that's it. And there may be and that may be true the other way around too. There might be some some conservative reporters that would have done the same. Yeah. But I know this.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Nobody's asking this asshole the question, why did you stay on this?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:If if you're if you're so mister, I wanna protect the country Yeah. Then you get the heck off this text right now, and you make sure that nobody else is on it that shouldn't be on it. Yeah. And you try to help. Right. Instead, you take it down.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Well, Trump did fire, three national security people yesterday. Yeah. And it may have something to do with that. I don't know.
Steve Palmer [:Maybe. I mean, look. It it's a blunder. It's a huge blunder, and you can't so both things are true.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Both things are true.
Brett Johnson [:Both yeah. Both things are true same time. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:We've been highly critical of Trump on this show and also complimentary, on a case by case basis.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And look. I I I can't say I completely 100% disagree with all the tariffs, but I do completely % disagree with the messaging behind the tariffs and how it's getting implemented because it's screwing up the economy. And you can say, well, it's just a correction or it's just this. It'll pass or whatever. But we have this we we have this, like, delicate balance right now where we can get some really good stuff done. And it it it's not worth dying on that hill. It's just not worth it.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know, man. You know, so I'm thinking so let me just say. Right? Your blue collar lunch pail worker. Right? There are fewer and fewer opportunities for young men and women that do not wanna get a college degree or can't afford one or don't have the aptitude, which is a terrible thing to say. But let's face it, not every college isn't for everybody. Right? There are some people who are are illiterate as adults, but they're incredibly talented at at skills. And so Or I think
Steve Palmer [:I think even closer to your point is there are a lot of people that are very, very smart, very, very literate, very, very, capable, but hate school.
Norm Murdock [:And that's totally okay.
Steve Palmer [:In that school environment. Fair enough.
Norm Murdock [:Where where are they gonna go get these jobs? We've offshored so much America. So I I agree. But this So we gotta go through some agony, I think.
Steve Palmer [:Well, again, both things can both things don't have to I mean, all this can happen at once. You don't need a bombastic tariff policy.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. You don't like bombast. I know the shit about Trump wanting to make Canada the fifty first state
Steve Palmer [:We don't need that.
Norm Murdock [:Is ridiculous.
Steve Palmer [:We don't and I understand where he's I I get it.
Norm Murdock [:I get it, but it's a stupid bombastic thing to say.
Steve Palmer [:Other side ammunition.
Norm Murdock [:Dude, we're on the same page there. Yeah. So, like, that's excessive. I don't know why he's doing that.
Steve Palmer [:And even JD going to Greenland. I mean, it's like, come on, guys. We're not gonna invade Greenland.
Norm Murdock [:Well, he did visit one of our advanced like, we have a base
Steve Palmer [:No. We have he has business there, but, like, it's just the the messaging behind this. Like, oh, we might invade Greenland. It's like Ridiculous. I know we're not gonna do that, but you're giving ammunition to the other side, and you're creating instability. People don't like that. I don't like that.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and to your point, even to the I'm gonna go for a third term.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Ridiculous.
Brett Johnson [:It's just it you know, I I and Yes. I guess I I'm looking at it from the standpoint of just bombastic bombarding us with so much that that that that He's
Norm Murdock [:trying to change the
Brett Johnson [:Where where is the story then? That's right. That all this crap around it is shiny object, shiny object, shiny object. But it's that okay. But what's really going on because you're throwing this out here? You're distracting
Steve Palmer [:us. It it creates conspiracy theories.
Brett Johnson [:Right? It does. Exactly. It
Steve Palmer [:creates all Trump wants
Norm Murdock [:to be a king.
Steve Palmer [:He wants to run for president for a third term.
Norm Murdock [:So He
Steve Palmer [:doesn't need to say that.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, so intellectually, what I'm doing, Steve, that politically, you can't do. So what you're saying is true politically. Intellectually, what I'm doing is disregarding his bombast because I can't stand it. It's a part of Trump's personality that I cannot stand, and it actually does interfere to your point correctly. It interferes with his agenda by putting out distractions or making jokes or, you know, can saying stuff like you said about Greenland. And the thing is he undermined his own case there because, like, there I think there's only, like, 50,000 Greenlanders. Like, it's a tiny population, and they really have a lot of disdain for Denmark. They don't they don't think Denmark takes care of them.
Norm Murdock [:Like, they feel like, you know, the poor cousins, you know, out in Appalachia somewhere, and Denmark's back there having a good time, but somehow they control Greenland. So they were predisposed to be angry at Denmark, and then Trump insinuates one way or the other, we're gonna we're gonna get Greenland. And he he doesn't have to do that.
Steve Palmer [:He we could've just cozied in with Greenland That's right. And and started to just take over. And and not in a bad way.
Norm Murdock [:We'll have a plebiscite. Have them vote on it like Puerto Rico.
Steve Palmer [:Or just or just start look. Hey, look, Greenland. We want a closer relationship. One, because you need it. And two, because we need it. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Right. It could be
Norm Murdock [:very good relationship.
Steve Palmer [:Have our enemies patrolling outside your waters. You don't need heavy handedness
Norm Murdock [:when they're already predisposed to to dislike their owners in Denmark.
Steve Palmer [:But Trump is a New York real estate guy Yeah. Who would come in, you know, it's like And
Norm Murdock [:force it.
Steve Palmer [:And he's always the guy that's like, I want 20,000,000 when he really wants 1,000,000. Yeah. Because then he can negotiate it down. He's that guy.
Norm Murdock [:He's that guy.
Steve Palmer [:And and Right. And I get it. It works in the it it doesn't work politically. Yeah. That's the problem. It doesn't work politically.
Norm Murdock [:And he's not really a Or diplomatically.
Steve Palmer [:Or diplomatically. Yeah. And your your point about four zero one k, like, people don't if he didn't do that, I don't think our four zero one k's would be dropping. I really don't because the market hates instability, and he is creating instability, I don't think, by necessarily his policies. But by the way, he's messaging his policies. That's what that's what is Well frustrating. It doesn't have to be this way.
Norm Murdock [:It's hard to separate that. Right? Because people are susceptible both to facts and the messaging.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:It's hard to Well, at
Steve Palmer [:least let's eliminate one of them from the equation.
Norm Murdock [:I wish you would. Yeah. Yeah. I wish you would. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and with that point of agreement, maybe we'll talk about Intel.
Steve Palmer [:Let's talk about Intel. So Intel is, failing.
Norm Murdock [:The the child of the Chips Act. So, I think the subsidy now, if you add it all up with the Chips Act and Ohio's piece, it's like a $34,000,000,000, you know, project. And Ohio has something, I think, the the amount is roughly 600,000,000 of state money, one way or the other for roads, sewers, land Infrastructure
Brett Johnson [:kind of stuff. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That that we, the taxpayers, have paid, for this project. The new president of Intel, because you may remember the the the previous guy left, You know, the stock went down. I think it was the the five hundredth stock on the on the Dow five hundred or Standard and Poor's, whatever. It was the lowest one. So their stock took a dive. They laid off 15% of all Intel employees. They've shut down other projects, and the new president said this week the new president of Intel, not Trump. The new president of Intel said, that OhioOne, the name of the project in Lincoln County, is is not their top focus.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's it's it's and they've broken the contract. They were to be in operation this year, 2025. They have said now they won't be ready to, start production until 2030. So the 10,000 jobs that they promised, that's gone. Now they're down to, like, 1,800 jobs. And it's not looking so good. Right?
Steve Palmer [:So what else so let's let's talk about this. You know, you had a government subsidy, essentially. Yeah. And, Intel Bytes takes advantage. They come to Johnstown, Ohio without a whole lot of, public notice, we'll say. Yeah. Right. It just sort of happens.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Jobs Ohio, which we've talked
Steve Palmer [:about. Overnight. That's right. That people who were who were selling their farmland to to for the project.
Norm Murdock [:One family, almost a billion dollars if you add up the tracks. If you amalgamate what that one family sold altogether, Yeah. I think it was 800 and something million doll almost a billion dollars.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And so look. I mean, now what? What's Johnstown look like? You live out there.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So traffic's insane. Right? The roads are getting completely crushed and deteriorated from, you know, cement
Steve Palmer [:trucks. Gravel trucks.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, they are just tearing it up. There have been a lot of accidents, people, going into the ditches, avoiding trucks, trucks going into the ditches. So, homes have been raised. I I think maybe as many as several hundred, like, three, four hundred home homes gone, along with the forest and, environmental impacts. The Mountain View California Mayor, who has a Superfund site left over from when Intel had a plant out there has warned Johnstown and anybody else doing business with Intel that they'll tell you it's gonna be a clean production. Well, he's got a Superfund site in Mountain View, California. You know? So It's not all good there.
Steve Palmer [:And and there's more. Right? Well, and there's probably some good too, but there's more. I mean, you've got people so
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So Yost, Dave Yost, r a g, who's kinda like the attorney for the state of Ohio, if you wanna
Steve Palmer [:look Is the attorney for the state of Ohio. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know, look looking at it that way. He did not write the contract with, Intel. JobsOhio and governor DeWine did. Right? And Yost analyzed the contract since they've broken the contract. What normal people would do when you break the contract is claw back the money. Right? Like, you didn't keep the deal. He said the contract is written in such a way, he issued a press release, Yost, and he said, the way it's written, it's a it's a one way deal.
Norm Murdock [:We cannot claw back
Steve Palmer [:the money.
Brett Johnson [:Are we surprised?
Steve Palmer [:No. I'm not.
Brett Johnson [:No. Not a bit.
Steve Palmer [:But there's a couple other a couple other points that are bad or one other point that's bad. So because I know this from talking to people out there. What what's happening is, on the one hand, house prices are going up. So you get all these people who's like, oh, gosh. My house is now worth triple what it was yesterday. And but then the problem is other people's houses have gone up too, which means they can't afford the taxes. You know, their incomes haven't gone up commensurate with what they now owe in property taxes, and that's trouble. So people gotta bail.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's good. They they make money on their house. It's bad. They gotta go pay for another house. Yeah. They gotta operate and move because they can't afford to keep their house.
Norm Murdock [:They can't keep
Steve Palmer [:their house. Right? On the other hand, you know, businesses, you know, the restaurants are probably doing better. There's,
Norm Murdock [:Well, one closed. The major one closed. Did it? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That
Norm Murdock [:There's probably a victim more of COVID than anything. No.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Long term effect.
Steve Palmer [:I was out there and, you know, things appear you know, the the stores are crowded. I mean, so there's there's good and bad. Yeah. The point is is that it didn't happen naturally. And when things don't happen naturally in the economy
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:I I almost all you can almost always find That's right. Problems.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, Intel didn't say, let's look at a map here of The United States Of Johnstown. That's a perfect place for us. Let's go there.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah. It was artificially cited based on, goodies, incentives.
Steve Palmer [:Right. We paid it. We paid for it.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:We paid for it. So, you know, and now imagine that. Yeah. Imagine that.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and it also begs the the question, who wrote the contract, really?
Steve Palmer [:And why?
Brett Johnson [:Yes. So JobsOhio and DeWine did not write this contract.
Norm Murdock [:Well, they wrote the contract.
Brett Johnson [:But but but but Intel basically had the final say on it if it's all one way.
Norm Murdock [:Well, it had to be agreed to. Right. And it's a one way contract. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So you
Brett Johnson [:might as well say Intel wrote it then. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, something
Norm Murdock [:Oh, go ahead. They can break the contract and still get the money. Yeah. It's insanity. Alright.
Brett Johnson [:So Insanity.
Steve Palmer [:Intel breaks its deal. Yep. Now the now the laptop I'm trying out, by the way, is a Qualcomm. I think it's a Snapdragon, a Qualcomm chip. I don't think it's an Intel processor.
Brett Johnson [:Well, it goes back And and the Macs have their m fours. M fours. Yeah. Exactly. Well, when it goes back to our very beginning of this show, is that, okay. Great. We we bring these we need the chips. We wanna make them locally.
Brett Johnson [:And we and this we screwed the pooch here. Something happened. What's going on? Now we can't get the chips made again.
Steve Palmer [:We paid for it. So I think and and maybe I meant to say this when we're talking about tariffs too. It's a great turn it's a great circle back because, you know, there might be other ways to incentivize this stuff by, like, not disincentivizing these things. So for instance, when when the other side is hammering about corporate taxes, corporate say, you just gotta pay their fair share. Well, they're gonna go to, like, Ireland where they're not gonna have to pay their fair share. They're gonna go to China where they don't have to pay their, quote, fair share. Yeah. So let's just let them come here and not tax the crap out of them and not regulate the crap out of them.
Steve Palmer [:And and then I think you can create an incentive for to sort of re, reshore Ohio business
Norm Murdock [:that way. Under Trump's first administration when he did that corporate tax cut
Steve Palmer [:It worked.
Norm Murdock [:That's exactly what happened.
Steve Palmer [:It worked. I I only did it. It worked.
Norm Murdock [:They took their money out of these foreign banks. They brought it back to America. That's right. They weren't gonna get taxed on.
Steve Palmer [:They weren't gonna get taxed, and they weren't gonna get regulated. And they didn't have to worry about that. There's some three letter agency crawling up their backside. So but Yep. I think that would have far more impact than paying a chip company to build a place in Johnstown.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the so I'll go back to our hero, Thomas Sowell, who who generally, like, you know, 99.9. I'm on board, because I have a small brain. He has a very big one, and he's way smarter than me, economics genius, wrote, like, 200 books and anyway. But his thing would be on this, I am sure. This is a situation where the government picked winners and losers. Oh, yeah. They decided under the Chips Act, oh, this company gets this and this company doesn't.
Steve Palmer [:So why is why is Intel better than Qualcomm?
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Better than whoever Apple, whoever's Or
Norm Murdock [:you and I starting up a chip. Maybe maybe you and I go.
Steve Palmer [:You were you were eliminating competition.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Eliminating competition with your government finger on the scale. Yeah. That's the problem.
Norm Murdock [:Solyndra. Hello? Yeah. I mean, we we could name, like, 500 companies, all these EV companies that the government set up that all went bankrupt.
Steve Palmer [:You know? And all their cronies made lots of money.
Norm Murdock [:Lots of money. Yeah. Yep. So, another interesting thing that's going on, again, the trickle down effect, of Doge inspired cuts to things like the Department of Education that what have you is around Ohio, public libraries, colleges, private and public, police departments, fire departments, they're all wigging out, right, over the loss of federal supplemental funds. Right? And they got used to that, like, under COVID, because municipalities were having a hard time, sustaining their police and fire departments. Somehow, the federal government got involved in what is exclusively a local matter, in my opinion, funding police and fire departments for extra personnel. Like, that's bizarre to me. And then and then, of course, when the subsidy runs out, the locality can't maintain those employees.
Norm Murdock [:This is this is like ridiculous.
Steve Palmer [:This is like look. Again, the government's putting some on the scale. The scale's gonna adjust to whatever it is the government's giving them. And then when the government gives out, they're gonna say, wait a minute. We can't function without this. Well, you didn't learn how to. Yeah. That's the problem.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You didn't learn how to.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, know, if you if you're in a house you can't afford, you gotta move. Right? You gotta buy something. Right. Or or
Brett Johnson [:you buy a car that you can't afford the upkeep, you're gonna have to buy
Steve Palmer [:You gotta buy a different car. Different car. Yeah. And it may be you might have to get the, Civic instead of the the, German tariffed. Right. A couple of shows ago The German tariff BMW.
Norm Murdock [:You know, the schools are screaming bloody murder too. And a couple of shows ago, you guys had our sponsor, Glenn, Harper on. And, Glenn and you guys had a great discussion about education funding. And it's amazing the number of people, even highly placed people, like George Bush's former White House spokesperson, Dana Perino, was on The Five, which is a Fox show. Mhmm. And she blurted out that it was a federal responsibility, constitutionally, to educate children.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's insane.
Norm Murdock [:And and I'm like, Dana, my god.
Steve Palmer [:It's not even that.
Norm Murdock [:It's like It's not in there at all.
Steve Palmer [:My god. It it would be like, to me, it's like, it is the parents' responsibility to educate their children. And then from there, we have delegated at the local level, our schools.
Norm Murdock [:It is in Ohio's constitution.
Steve Palmer [:I got it. But that's because we had that responsibility. We're gonna delegate it locally.
Norm Murdock [:And we made it part of our constitution.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Right. It was not a
Steve Palmer [:federal no. No. That that's lunacy.
Norm Murdock [:But but this is what people think path
Steve Palmer [:that is a path to destruction.
Norm Murdock [:And and You heard it here first. In every part of life now, we have the federal government somehow involved. And this is the whole idea, Doge, is to get to get the responsible parties back into the family home. Right? Where they should decide things like, you know, hey. What's your gender? You know? You know, like, work that out as a family in conjunction with your doctor and your therapist and all that. How is that a school function is beyond me. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Or a federal function. A federal
Norm Murdock [:much less a federal function.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. No. And and I think, you know, the dough stuff with all the cuts and everything else, it's like, you know, you you we have created this we anybody who's done any work with government entities, and I have quite a bit being a criminal defense lawyer. I've dealt with all sorts of government entities. Yeah. Look, the state of Ohio, has, like, the Department of Public Safety that employs hundreds of lawyers, I think. I don't know how many. Oh,
Brett Johnson [:I'll bet.
Steve Palmer [:Over over a hundred.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, I'll bet.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, they're all making 6 figures probably. What are they doing? And, you know, and then you just you start to you start to extrapolate that out. And I'm not people be the people become entitled to that job because they've got it.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And it's a very, very difficult thing to crowbar the funds away from that. But if you if if somebody like Elon Musk goes in or anybody, I don't care, any any green hatted accountant goes in with a pencil and a notebook and starts looking at the money and where it's going and what it's all about Yeah. They're gonna start cutting people. So, look, I I I did this in the last two years of my own personal financial world. I I decided, alright, I'm gonna figure out where all my money's going. Yeah. Anybody who's ever, like, subscribed or done that, like, you start looking at your statements and the debits that are going out, you're like
Brett Johnson [:When did they sign
Steve Palmer [:up for that? This is insane.
Norm Murdock [:Do I really need Netflix?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, plus this one over here. This is like, what the hell is that? I don't even don't even know what that is. And, you know, I I've got, like, an old email account that I'm paying $7 a month for. It's like, look. I cut it off. I cut it. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I had people working for me in this building doing stuff. I'm like, I don't really need that. I'm cutting it. They don't have a right to that job. They don't have a right to that job. And and
Norm Murdock [:Like like, this is a little It
Steve Palmer [:doesn't mean I'm not empathetic for people who are losing their jobs. Right. You don't get it just because you have it. Well, this is a little make sense.
Norm Murdock [:This is a little thing, but, like, to your point, Steve, when they got down to the granular level in some of these departments, they were finding out, like, as a way to funnel money to, some NGO or to some media outlet that's favorable to the Biden administration. What they were doing was buying, like, a subscription, online subscription for everybody at the Department of Transportation to say, like, the Atlantic or the New York Times.
Steve Palmer [:And, of course, they think they need it. Well Because they're getting it.
Norm Murdock [:I'm sure a bunch of those people never even opened it. But they had a subscription.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Right. And they're getting it. So now and it's like that's a way to fund look.
Norm Murdock [:It's a cute way to funnel money.
Steve Palmer [:The corruption that exists when you're not spending your own money. It's it's so easy.
Norm Murdock [:It's so easy. Right.
Steve Palmer [:It's so easy. And they think that they're entitled to it now. Yeah. And they're not.
Norm Murdock [:They're not.
Steve Palmer [:They're not. And it sucks if you're losing your job. I I feel Valjean, well, and
Brett Johnson [:we're starting I got maybe just sidebar. But I mean, we're starting to get this feel or I'm getting this feel that people are continuing to ask, when are we getting our $5,000? When are we getting our $5,000 with all this money that's been saved? It's like, we we don't deserve the $5,000. This is COVID money almost.
Norm Murdock [:Well, that was part of Trump's, if you know, his bombast. Like, he threw that out there as as red meat to get people to back to Right. And he shouldn't have done that.
Brett Johnson [:But but I think there is Just
Norm Murdock [:cut our taxes.
Brett Johnson [:But I think there are citizens believing there's a check coming our way.
Steve Palmer [:There's not a check
Brett Johnson [:coming our way. And it's like, folks, there's not. And don't wait for it.
Steve Palmer [:If there is, great. I'll take it and I'll put it in the bank and whatever.
Norm Murdock [:Didn't Bush do that, like, I don't know, twenty years?
Brett Johnson [:Oh, everybody got it.
Norm Murdock [:$600.
Brett Johnson [:6
Norm Murdock [:hundred. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:This is a little different, though, because, look, we have we have allocated money that it turns out we didn't need and it came from the taxpayers. And, look, we talked about this with Glenn. Like, alright. So we've got the end of the year. We gotta spend all this money because we need to get it next year. Well, I think what they're saying is we now we don't need it next year. We're gonna give it back to you. It's sort of symbolic.
Steve Palmer [:I hope I get $5,000. Right?
Norm Murdock [:I just like that.
Steve Palmer [:Much as soon I'd I'd just as soon Or you take all that conglomerate and pay down the damn debt with it.
Norm Murdock [:But you know you're gonna get taxed
Brett Johnson [:on the 5,000.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. That no. That's a that's a refund.
Norm Murdock [:That's not Is
Steve Palmer [:it Yeah. That's not Okay.
Brett Johnson [:I think it's a re
Steve Palmer [:because I got If that's if that's not a refund, it's only 3,000. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:So on that famous show of yours, we you guys also and I went there. But you guys it was a great show. You guys also talked about sales taxes. And I got I got stimulated on that topic because just this week, the transit authority here in Central Ohio, just this week of people voted it in. I don't know why they did this, but they voted in a half of a penny or point 5% additional tax for COTA, which is the Central Ohio Transit Authority, the transit authority for Central Ohio. So what did that do? That made the COTA service area, which extends into Delaware County, Union County, Licking County, to some extent, in those counties. Wherever they're doing service, plus Franklin County, so this big octopus, the sales tax went up one half of 1%, making the average sales tax, like here in Franklin County, 8 Percent. So I decided to look at what other states that don't even have an income tax.
Norm Murdock [:Right? So Ohio Ohioans are we are so overtaxed in this state that our governor is spending money on crap like Intel and whatever. Like, he's he's just he's a spendaholic. Like, he's he's he's as bad as any Democrat. He's truly a rhino. And so I decided to look up, what Florida and Texas have for, taxes. And it turns out Florida state tax is 6% sales tax. They if you add on local options, the max it can go to in Florida is seven and a half percent. In Texas, the state tax is 6.25%.
Norm Murdock [:The max it can go is another 2%, the max. So that doesn't mean locals have to go to 8.25, but they have the option to do it if the voters voted in. Ohio's at 8% on a sales tax because of this quota thing, and we have an income tax on top of it that Florida and Texas don't even have an income tax.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, as Clint pointed out, though, they have other means of revenue in Florida and Texas that we don't have. We don't have a tourism industry that helps that helps fund all this stuff. No. He's right. So, you
Norm Murdock [:know, there But they also don't have all this largesse that we have.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. So we you have to look at these things that it's not as it's not a it's a multifaceted product against Dick Boeth Thomas sold. Very, very rarely is an outcome attributable to a single cost.
Norm Murdock [:A single thing.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So you there's a there's a lot more that needs to go into that. So I think it's I think it's an oversimplification for Vic to say just to come in and say, I'm gonna eliminate this tax. I'm gonna
Norm Murdock [:eliminate income tax. Well, and did you hear Trump? He said anybody making less than a hundred and 50,000. No no federal
Steve Palmer [:income tax. Yeah. That's not gonna happen. I hope it does, but it's not gonna happen.
Norm Murdock [:Well, you know, the one the top one
Steve Palmer [:They're gonna collect the money. The dike is gonna start leaking somewhere else.
Norm Murdock [:The top 1% of federal income taxpayers pay for 60% of the federal Oh,
Steve Palmer [:that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So I don't know. A hundred and 50,000? I wonder how many of those people I wonder really how much tax they are paying. Probably not that as not as much as we think, really. It'd be interesting to see.
Steve Palmer [:They're paying a chunk.
Norm Murdock [:But I bet I bet what do you think? It's, like, 15% maybe?
Steve Palmer [:I think it's about 20% probably.
Norm Murdock [:Fifteen, twenty. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, that's that's a chunk of money. If you use that because that's like that's that's like the boom right there.
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm. But I think Trump's thinking if this tariffs thing
Steve Palmer [:Individually or household, I don't know. I mean, how you
Norm Murdock [:Like like, he's gonna cut the income tax. If the like, if tariffs really start bringing in and if the economy starts booming you know how tax cuts almost always result in more income to the federal government if you cut the income.
Steve Palmer [:If you cut it, it does.
Brett Johnson [:Because it does. Historically, it's been shown. You're right.
Norm Murdock [:John f Kennedy, Reagan, like, you know, tax cuts and then the economy starts responding.
Steve Palmer [:Well, I think a lot again, there's probably more cause to that or more causes to that, such as the people who tend to cut taxes are also tending to cut regulation. Yeah. And that's gonna so it's like then you have this, like, there's lots of things happening.
Norm Murdock [:A perfect storm. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Well and and even to that a hundred and $50,000 limit, people think, well, that you're helping the riches. Like, that's actually probably about middle to upper bid in middle class.
Steve Palmer [:That's right. That's sort of right there in that
Brett Johnson [:It's it's a household
Steve Palmer [:income of a hundred and 50. Look. If you're making less, it doesn't it's not
Brett Johnson [:a Right.
Steve Palmer [:Exactly. But that's a that's a very average income, I think.
Norm Murdock [:These days.
Steve Palmer [:It is. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:These days.
Steve Palmer [:These days. And, you know
Norm Murdock [:I mean, that's a husband and wife each making 75.
Brett Johnson [:Correct. That's right. Yeah. And and look at it that way. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:Which you're not you're not back stroking through money. I mean, at that point. Oh. You you got a couple kids? You know?
Steve Palmer [:You're you're you've gotta watch your budget.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Big time. Exactly. Or you get kid kids in college or whatever the case the money's flowing out. You're not banking 75.
Steve Palmer [:You can't buy that BMW, Norm, because the tariffs are too high.
Norm Murdock [:So Steve Steve is a also a federal courts practitioner. So, like, we have an expert in the house on this
Steve Palmer [:Expert's a tough word. Expert's a very bloated word.
Norm Murdock [:But listen, I I've even gone down to court with Steve and seen him in action. He's a very good attorney, and I've seen him in federal court. He Steve's got it on. So this topic is extremely vexing to me, and and and and it's for years. Like, I didn't like it under Obama, and and, Supreme Court justice Kagan has come out against these federal district courts doing a national TRO or a national injunction. Yeah. And I was listening and then I'll let Steve because he's a guy. But I was listening to one of these professors, the talking head people that they have on, and they said that these, district court judges that are blocking Trump, and I guess it's up to, like, a 50, federal cases on things like, you know, making the airplane turn around with the trend day, people on board and in in cuts at, you know, NPR, whatever.
Norm Murdock [:You know, like, they're they're trying to reverse all kinds of things using temporary restraining orders and injunctions. And this expert, Steve, I you know, I'll just assume he's right, but I did Google the National Law Review. They did they indicate that on TROs, they're not immediately appealable. So one of the games that they're playing when they go to these district court judges and they issue a TRO is they make the they make the White House do this big slow, you know, trying to undo the TRO, whereas an injunction, what they say, is immediately appealable.
Steve Palmer [:Well, you're talking about something that's either a final appealable order or not a final appealable order. But the bigger picture is this, and we'll I'll talk about that in a second. The bigger picture is this. We have and we we hear these news stories. Federal judge blocks Trump. And the the message that they're really sending is what Trump did was unconstitutional. But what they're not telling you is that the people who filed against Trump carefully picked the judge in a place, in a in a federal district, that would side with them.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, because it's not obvious that just because that judge says the federal judge budget, it's not obvious that that's gonna that'll that'll remain intact. So that that's the first point. This the the the idea that we have a federal district court, say, in Columbus, Ohio could issue an injunction that would stop the entire country from doing something is a little far fetched. Right? It's like it it is it is, it encourages what we call in law forum shopping. We go pick a friendly judge, we get an answer, and, then and then somebody else goes to a different jurisdiction and says, well, I'm gonna blah. It is it is a bad practice. I don't think there's any, set rule or or congressional, law on it regarding the jurisdiction of a federal district judge to enjoin the entire country. I and and I what what may come out of this, what I'm praying comes out of this, is some semblance of order regarding that practice because it's not good for anybody.
Steve Palmer [:No. It's just not good.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, Kagan's a Democrat. She's against it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's just So it
Brett Johnson [:goes so it goes to that federal court. What what's the next step? And so the what's the end run?
Steve Palmer [:And this is what Norm's talking about. So you get a TRO, temporary restraining order. The issue is and I I don't know the answer definitively whether a TRO is a final appeal of order. I think you can go appeal that to the disc to the circuit court above, and try to get that undone. But it's, an injunction would be a permanent relief that you can then appeal and and get a decision on the merits. A temporary restraining order, you're appealing things like, is there irreparable harm? What's the likelihood what's the likelihood of success, on the merits of the case? There's, like, a bunch of factors that I talked about before. And, you know, so it it creates a procedural hurdle, a tank an entanglement, to to challenge it. So you get a federal judge in a certain friendly location, typically DC Circuit Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And they're gonna enjoin the act everywhere. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know. I've talked about different options with different lawyers, even guys I disagree with. And, you know, one one of my friends, we were kicking around the idea of, like, we need in Ohio, we have something called the court of claims, which is if you see the state, you go to the court of claims. Lawyers call it the court of no claims because there's no jury. And, you know, you're asking the state to rule against itself, so you can do the math.
Norm Murdock [:That's like the IRS, hearings.
Steve Palmer [:Right. That's right. Yeah. Right. We'll tell you whether we lose.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. But you, yeah, I we kicked around the idea of creating a court for this. You know? So there's a court, a place you can go.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, it you know, maybe you can control how those judges get picked. I don't know. So what because what's going on is political form shopping. Yeah. And if you don't think if you like it now because it's against Trump, you won't like it later when it's against you. Alright? So
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. Because there are conservative judges. It'll flip. You can form shop them.
Steve Palmer [:It'll flip.
Norm Murdock [:We saw
Brett Johnson [:that under Biden administration.
Norm Murdock [:I I can't
Brett Johnson [:tell you specifics, but I know we talked
Steve Palmer [:about it. So, Steve,
Norm Murdock [:my understanding is, federal district court judges, that's a lifetime appoint.
Steve Palmer [:It's a life that my dad used to say that that literally, the federal judge is second to only the Holy Ghost himself because
Norm Murdock [:there's no
Steve Palmer [:there's hardly any checks and balances. And, like, when Trump sort of, spewing or, you know, sort of rhetorically saying I'm gonna impeach him, it's like even that, he can't
Norm Murdock [:Well, in in in in in our state judge system, at least starting at the, common police level and going up, maybe even muni. I'm I'm not sure. But you we elect our judges Yeah. You know, and our Supreme Court. And, but in the federal system, you know, they're all pitching, oh, Elon's not elected. Neither are the 700 district court judges. They're not elected either.
Steve Palmer [:And the the the and there's no compare there's no compare. Like, the thing about Elon not being elected, it's like It's ridiculous. This other crap. It's like, look.
Norm Murdock [:He's an adviser.
Steve Palmer [:He was he was appointed and hired by the executive branch of government to dismantle the executive branch of government. And revert power back to this And give it back to the people. Yeah. Right? So I I get it.
Norm Murdock [:Can you imagine Hitler It just They called Trump Hitler. Can you imagine Hitler hiring somebody like Elon Musk to take power away from he, Hitler Right. And put it back to Bavaria? Right. Come on, man.
Steve Palmer [:This is about the most anti authoritarian thing you could do.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. Yeah. It's like,
Steve Palmer [:I'm gonna dismantle the authority of the federal government to tax and spend your money.
Norm Murdock [:So, Steve, constitutionally, if I understand it, the articles in the constitution that, create Congress give Congress the power to create a judiciary. So the federal judiciary not the Supreme Court, but the 11 circuits and the 700 some odd district court judges, Those are create create creations of Congress. They created the judicial system by legislation. Yeah. And so to your point, if they want to limit the scope of what district court judges can review or what their impact is, I guess they can do that.
Steve Palmer [:Or you could carve out a court to deal with injunctions. Because then every then there's a central place.
Norm Murdock [:A a for nationwide injunctions. Yes. And then give the White House a chance to immediately appeal.
Steve Palmer [:Create a create a process.
Norm Murdock [:So that this doesn't drag on.
Steve Palmer [:Congress could do that. Congress could do that. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So what I'm horrified by the federal government, this also came out, that finally, those guys that they captured twenty five years ago that committed the nine eleven, attacks are finally gonna get tried.
Steve Palmer [:Right?
Norm Murdock [:It's been twenty five years. I mean That's crazy,
Steve Palmer [:ain't it? Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's crazy. So that what is it? Khalil, whatever it is that they waterboarded. They're finally gonna get around to trying him? I mean
Brett Johnson [:They're retirement age right now. Right?
Norm Murdock [:Dude, it's been it's just a delay.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. A a baby becomes a man in that time frame. Yes.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, I'm just Yes. Blown away. And this I think this is one of the big mistakes that George Bush junior made was turning that entire matter into a police like, he he viewed it as a law enforcement thing, and and they approached it that way. And I think, like, this guy should have been put up against the wall and shot.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Was it a military court? Was it a was it a was it a criminal justice matter? Was it some do some version of both? It sort of ended up with this weird hybrid. And, you know, like, that's that's when the worst of the worst happens.
Norm Murdock [:That's when the worst happens, man.
Steve Palmer [:It's because people operate in these shadows and do stuff that there's no rules for.
Norm Murdock [:3,000 victims, which means 3,000 families and extended families, They're waiting twenty five years for justice. That's crazy.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. That that's horrible.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Well
Brett Johnson [:We gotta wind down.
Norm Murdock [:Do some good and bad. Yeah. Let's do
Steve Palmer [:some good and bad. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Thank you, Steve. That was
Steve Palmer [:Oh, good.
Norm Murdock [:Really good on the judges thing. Yeah. I you know.
Steve Palmer [:I would love to see that. I mean, I I really That's
Norm Murdock [:a great proposal. It's a single nationwide injunction court Yeah. That you can go blab to and get a
Steve Palmer [:quick I didn't profess to have all the answers, but
Norm Murdock [:That's a great idea.
Brett Johnson [:How do you keep that nonpolitical?
Steve Palmer [:Well, I know I was gonna I was just gonna say Yeah. Don't make them political appointments. Right. Instead, maybe elect people.
Norm Murdock [:Maybe elect.
Steve Palmer [:Okay. Okay. You know?
Norm Murdock [:Well well, that's political.
Brett Johnson [:But but Well,
Steve Palmer [:I don't mean I said don't make them political appointments.
Brett Johnson [:But at least
Norm Murdock [:there would be a place.
Brett Johnson [:Of accountability to
Norm Murdock [:be What I like about that too is I think we should do that for election, matters. So that because otherwise, it's a fait accompli. Like, you know
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Carrie Lake goes to court in Arizona. And by the time they dispose of the case, it's May, and her opposition's already been governor.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. We need to resolve some things quickly.
Steve Palmer [:The idea of the idea that that the opposition to an executive action can pick a court anywhere in the country to challenge it based on a judge that they know will likely rule in their favor. Right.
Norm Murdock [:That is trouble. And then slow walk it.
Steve Palmer [:And then slow walk it. That is trouble. Yeah. That's trouble. Yeah. And and it's if it's if it's not trouble to you now, because like I said, if you don't if it's not trouble now because you don't like Trump, it'll be trouble to you later when somebody else on the other side is doing it to you. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Well, you got 77,000,000 people that voted for Trump. He got the popular, you know, he he he just barely. Like, just a tick over 50%. But any rate, 77,000,000 people on one hand, and then a single judge on the other hand can just foil what they voted for. Mhmm. That's ridiculous.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So Yeah. Wonderfully outrageous. Normally, what you got?
Norm Murdock [:So my my happy thing well, let me do my bad thing. So up in Thompson, Ohio, a guy reached for his, doughnut, holding a cup of coffee, reached for a doughnut, and he dropped it on the carpet. So he leans over further and has it veers off out of his lane and hits somebody head on, sending two people to the hospital. One had to be cut out of the car, and then the road was closed down for four hours. So I beg you people. I beg you people, please eat, do your cell phone stuff while you're parked. Wow. Oh my god.
Norm Murdock [:You you just can't be rest. He literally, the state patrol said the guy dropped the donut and that's what caused the accident. So it sounds funny, but one car was flattened. The pictures are unbelievable if you see them on these. I I don't know how the person lived. So that's my bad thing. My good thing my good thing is speed cameras under new legislation have been banned in Ohio Good. For all counties and townships.
Norm Murdock [:But because home rule is in our constitution, cities in Ohio can still, use speed cameras. But counties and townships, unincorporated areas, that's gone. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Good. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That thing we discussed it for me, in regards to tariffs, kind of playing it out. I I feel better about that that we kinda see eye to eye on where is this going. But, yeah, but still, it's it's concerning. A good thing, Grafton Correctional Institute in Ohio has implemented a program where incarcerated adults train service dogs for families in need.
Steve Palmer [:That's pretty cool.
Brett Johnson [:I it it it's called Wags for Kids. And these you know, it's it's low level guys, but they're in there.
Norm Murdock [:Those are expensive dogs.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. And and the video I saw was, like, you know, these guys
Steve Palmer [:I think that it's a camp. It's a it's a low security guard.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. But these guys are feeling like one one quote of it was that he says, I've done more bad things in my life than good, but then it's now starting to to equal out because of this program. Good. That you know what? Those little things should not be just waived off. We're now helping guys maybe turn their lives around that we don't have to pay for them to be in correctional facilities.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That look. Anything anything that And
Brett Johnson [:you've dealt with a lot of this.
Steve Palmer [:I dealt with a lot of it. And anything that deal anything that gives see, the problem with prisons and, you know, I I'm not taking a stance on it necessarily, but the problem I'm I'm suggesting the problem without a solution.
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:We incarcerate guys in their twenties. And then fifteen years later, they're not the same person. They're just not.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Now you gotta punish people. You can give them life in prison or whatever, but, you know, you like, the your brains are developed differently. Everything changes. Everything happens. So, like, what you're talking about is, like, giving giving people a chance to actually do some good. Yeah. And you may have to keep incarcerated, but at least do some good way. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And give people some meaning to walk in a direction other than their own, you know, self interest. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. So my good and bad is all combined. And it's it's a little bit, a little bit different. It's it's ice. The Iceman, Val Kilmore died. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So it's sad that he died. I mean I'm your
Norm Murdock [:huckle I
Steve Palmer [:mean, I and that that's my good. I went back, and I I sort of I didn't watch all all my favorites of his, but, man Yeah. Was he good. He was. Man, was he good.
Norm Murdock [:That scene with Johnny Ringo.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, it's a masterpiece.
Norm Murdock [:Twirling the little tin cup. My hypocrisy. I
Steve Palmer [:only go so far. Yeah. It's so it's so good. It's so good. I mean, he was it was such a maybe maybe, like, the apex of acting across the board. Like, that
Norm Murdock [:He was terrific.
Steve Palmer [:That character Yeah. That character is so good. And it,
Norm Murdock [:Did you know he sang those songs in the door? Yes. Yes.
Steve Palmer [:And I I think he
Norm Murdock [:had a little bet
Steve Palmer [:with, what's his name? Who who directed that?
Norm Murdock [:Oliver Stone.
Steve Palmer [:Oliver Stone. He had a little bet that if you could tell the difference, then if you can't tell the difference and you have to let me sing, he couldn't.
Norm Murdock [:I could not. Yeah. There was in fact, when I was told that years later after I saw the movie, I said, you I just figured they piped in.
Steve Palmer [:Nah. He he did the singing.
Norm Murdock [:It's unbelievable. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, he became Jim Morrison.
Norm Murdock [:It's unbelievable. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Catch a catch a Val Kilmer movie this weekend somewhere.
Steve Palmer [:Watch watch watch Oh, man. There's a lot of Go back to, what's the science one? It's it's actually they're all good.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Top Gun. Top Gun. Rich. I mean, all of them. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Just just live the moment. Final Top Gun movie.
Brett Johnson [:That brought thank goodness that they did that.
Norm Murdock [:All the dudes needed Kleenex in that office scene where, you know, like, they sort of, like Yeah. Said goodbye to each other. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Because they knew he's gone. Yeah. They knew he's gone. And it's so so it's horrible. But then it it's great because this guy left a legacy Mhmm. Yeah. Of great characters. Batman.
Steve Palmer [:And you know what else?
Norm Murdock [:On and on.
Steve Palmer [:You know what else, though? I don't know anything about his politics, and I don't give a rat's ass. No. I don't know. He didn't make it political.
Norm Murdock [:No. He did not. Like, I I don't know. Yeah. You're right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I have no clue.
Norm Murdock [:It was just a cool dude.
Steve Palmer [:He just did his job and he did it great.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. He did.
Steve Palmer [:He did it great.
Norm Murdock [:One of the epic
Steve Palmer [:Greatly. Greatly. He did it well.
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm. I even liked like that shitty movie with Al Pacino and Robert De Niro. It's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal movie. Right. But it's a bang bang movie. Like, it's not intellectual. It's more than that.
Steve Palmer [:It's more than that. I like, I the Iceman character. Val Kilmore's character is
Norm Murdock [:It's awesome in that.
Steve Palmer [:Is awesome. And I read a story that
Norm Murdock [:He just needed money. Remember the the thing? Like, my family like, my wife and kids, like, I need money. And, man, when he shoulders up that auto you know, like, and you're robbing the bank, it it's just like your hair stands up. Man. This is a guy getting money.
Steve Palmer [:I guess there was a there's a there was a drill sergeant in the marines who used as a training example how Val Kilmore quickly changed magazines. And it
Norm Murdock [:was unbelievable. Shoot it. Wow. He was great in
Steve Palmer [:that. Yeah. Wow. Really, really, really great in that movie. So I I I'm sure he did some stuff that was less than great, but the stuff we're talking about was great. Yeah. He was great.
Norm Murdock [:He was
Steve Palmer [:really And, and I think, largely, I don't care what his politics were. I I just like that I didn't know.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. And
Brett Johnson [:it ain't it kinda nice
Norm Murdock [:to It is nice.
Brett Johnson [:It is. Because, like, I
Norm Murdock [:have trouble watching De Niro movies now, and I love the deer hunter.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. He's a great great actor.
Norm Murdock [:That's a taxi driver. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But screw you, dude.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, dude. Like, you're bringing me down. And Alec Guinness, I love the hunt for Red October. And then Alec Baldwin.
Steve Palmer [:Alec Baldwin.
Norm Murdock [:Alec Baldwin. Alec Guinness.
Steve Palmer [:Now you're talking about Obi Wan Kenobi here. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And I'm thinking of beer again. Alright. Sorry.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well
Norm Murdock [:Steve, that was outstanding. Thank you for doing that. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, look, if you guys domer. We are brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. If you want your accounting done, I don't even think it has to be in Ohio. I think he could help you almost anywhere, if especially if you're a larger business and, you know, I know he's got clients out of state. But Clint Harper over at Harper Plus Accounting takes care of our books, could take care of yours. Doesn't mean he's the only sponsor, has to be the only sponsor. If you've got some thoughts and ideas, you wanna sponsor one of the segments of our show, just reach out.
Steve Palmer [:You can do that at commonsenseohioshow.com. Check us out on the socials. Leave us a comment. Send us a question. We are coming at you right from the middle till next week.
