Episode 2: Modeling Being Better Apart: Amicable Resolutions Revealed - Mandy Barr

Introducing our guest for Today's Episode:

Mandy Barr

Mandy Pullen Barr is a dedicated Concierge Specialist and Strategic Managing Partner at Vesta, leveraging over five years of expertise to guide individuals through the complex divorce journey. Based in Natick, MA, Mandy's passion lies in helping clients make informed, confident decisions that lead to clarity and long-term success. Having gone through her divorce over 15 years without Vesta's support, Mandy feels deeply passionate about providing others with the resources she wished she'd had. As Vesta's first point of contact, she ensures clients feel seen, heard, and supported. Mandy expertly connects them with Vesta's trusted professionals and creates tailored roadmaps that address divorce's emotional and practical aspects.

Mandy 's Website

Divorce Support Partners

• Barnes and Noble link
• Amazon link for journal
• Amazon link for book : It's Not About Us

Summary

In this episode of the Better Than Bitter Divorce Podcast, host Tania Leichliter speaks with Mandy Barr, a divorce concierge specialist at Vesta Divorce. They discuss the importance of amicable divorce resolutions, the role of divorce professionals, and the unique approach of nesting in co-parenting. Mandy shares her personal experiences with her parent's divorce and her own, emphasizing the significance of communication and child-centered practices. The conversation also touches on the concept of a marriage contract and the dynamics of blended families, concluding with key takeaways for listeners navigating their own divorce journeys.

Takeaways

• Divorce can be amicable and doesn't have to be a battleground.
• Vesta Divorce provides free essential support provided by their vetted divorce professionals and free concierge resources for individuals going through divorce.
• Nesting allows families to maintain a sense of normalcy during transitions.
• Communication is key in ensuring children feel loved and secure during divorce.
• It's important to check in on children after the divorce is finalized.
• Remarriage can create blended families that provide additional love and support for children.
• A marriage contract could encourage couples to work harder on their relationships.
• Divorce should not carry a stigma; it's a common experience.
• The more supportive adults in a child's life, the better for their emotional well-being.
• It's possible to create a re-envisioned family dynamic post-divorce.

Sound Bites

"Divorce doesn't have to be a battleground."

"Nesting is a unique approach to co-parenting."

"We have to continue to check in on our kids."

"Mindset around being a re-envisioned family."

"20 year marriage contract - I would have carved out time to nurture my marriage."

"Divorce is not the end of love - there is an after if you believe there is."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Amicable Divorce

02:50 The Role of Vesta Divorce

06:08 Understanding Divorce Professionals

09:04 Nesting: A Unique Approach to Co-Parenting

11:54 Reflections on Parents' Divorce

15:06 Navigating Child-Centered Divorce

17:53 The Importance of Communication Post-Divorce

21:08 Remarriage and Blended Families

24:03 The Concept of a Marriage Contract

26:53 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Thanks for tuning in to Better Than Bitter, navigating an amicable divorce. Whether you are at the beginning of your divorce journey, midway through, or even done, we want the stories from our guests to give you hope that an amicable resolution is possible. If you'd like to dive deeper into today's episode, check out our show notes for a full transcript, reflections, and links to learn more about Better Than Bitter's coaching courses, and how to connect with our fabulous guests. If you're ready for more support, you can head over to betterthanbitter.coach .

On our website you'll find details and additional information on our 5-Step Gameplan multimedia course, our different types of coaching methods, monthly memberships, events and retreats, and a whole lot more. Plus, we've got a ton of free resources, like our monthly newsletter, our private Facebook group, our Instagram channel, and a library of articles and free webinars to help you along the way. When you go to our website, you'll be able to schedule a free 45-minute breakthrough call. Remember, we're here to help you reach an amicable resolution. Find your courage and believe in your brighter future because you know what? It is possible.

At Better Than Bitter, we measure success by what we give and not by what we get. So let's change the divorce dialogue together. It's time to be better than bitter.

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Welcome to the Better Than Bitter Divorce Podcast, where we flip the script on divorce and show you how to have a more amicable divorce resolution. I'm your host, Tanya Licklider, a divorce coach, a certified life coach, and the mastermind behind the Better Than Bitter five-step game plan course, where I help individuals build a pathway toward a more amicable divorce resolution.

Each week, I'll bring you uplifting stories from people who've successfully experienced amicable separations, proving that divorce doesn't have to be a battleground. Whether you're overwhelmed with grief, struggling with custody and co-parenting, or just dealing with a high-conflict individual, this podcast is here to guide you towards reclaiming your life and being what I know is possible, better than bitter.

Welcome to the second episode of the Better Than Bitter Divorce Podcast. I am so excited today to welcome Mandy Barr. Mandy is a dedicated divorce concierge specialist with Vesta Divorce. And I myself are a Vesta Divorce professional. And so I'm super excited to be able to talk to Mandy today.

She is actually located in Natick, Massachusetts, which is super close to me as well. So Mandy and I have so many friends in common and I can't tell you enough about how amazing it's been to be part of the Vesta Divorce Concierge Group. She has been with them for about five years. And the most amazing thing about Mandy is that she herself has gone through an amicable divorce. And the way that we're...

interviewing our guests here is that we want to share stories for people not only who've gone through amicable divorces, but those that might've come from amicable divorces. So Mandy has such a unique story about her parents and how her parents got divorced and the differences between the way that she took her parents' divorce and her siblings, because I do think that's really powerful to share to our audience. And Mandy, only

So welcome, Mandy. my goodness, thank you so much. What a lovely introduction. And I'm delighted to be here today with you. Well, Mandy, so I really just want to kind of get started a little bit more about Vesta because before we get into that, I want people to know that you're not just somebody who had an amicable divorce and you're not somebody who came from an amicable divorce, but yet that you at Vesta really do support individuals through this process. So can you tell us a little bit more about Vesta?

Yes, absolutely. It be my pleasure. It's so funny because I tell folks when I'm having concierge calls with them that one of the job requirements is to have gone through your own divorce. And people are sometimes surprised by that. But I'm like, how can you possibly be able to relate to the folks that you're speaking with if you haven't been on the same path? Right? Every divorce is different. So it's not taking a walk in their shoes.

I didn't have a CDFA. I didn't understand the importance of looking at my finances and planning ahead. So my goal is really to help empower individuals so that they have all the information that they need as they begin the process, wherever they are in it, which is why I do the work. And Vasta, 11 years ago, they started putting on educational programs, the three founders.

they all were impacted by divorce in their own way. And they realized that there had to be a better way to get people through the process without it costing so much money, without it being so confrontational. And they started putting on these educational programs. And it really, what started off as like this concept, you know, quickly grew and were across the country and, you know, hoping to impact lives even.

beyond where we are right now today. So I want to just focus on something you said, because I think that some of our listeners might not even know what a CDFA is. You talked about the divorce professionals that are in the divorce network Vesta provides. Can you talk a little bit about a CDFA or the different types of divorce professionals that Vesta has as part of their concierge group?

Absolutely, yes. You're so right. take, there's so many things that we say that we take for granted, right? Because we've been doing this work for so long. So a CDFA is a certified divorce financial analyst and they are individuals who have a financial background and you know, it's a special certification where they can help people with the division of their assets, which whether it be, you know, many or little.

you're probably going to need to speak with somebody like that to help you with the, especially in longer-term marriage. And actually, a CDFA can also be somebody who has a legal background, but typically it's folks that are in the financial space that earn that certification. And within each of our hubs, we try to have a compliment of a variety of different professionals. So one is the mediator, because we're always...

encouraging folks to try mediate their case whenever possible. We do have a litigating attorney in the hub to provide that consulting aspect, somebody to review your document. In the case where couples can't divorce amicably, there's also, they can go that route. There's the financial professional, a coach such as yourself or a therapist, and then our real estate team.

because as the realtor stay, unless you're planning on living in the same house for the rest of your lives, if you're getting divorced, you have a real estate problem. So consisting of a mortgage professional and a real estate agent. And then we have a lot of other professionals, but they're not necessarily a requirement for the hub, such as like a parent coach or a forensic accountant or business evaluator. Well, just because of my positivist.

mindset, you said that some people have a real estate problem, I would say, real estate opportunity. I think it's really just kind of coming to the table with understanding what your mindset is currently and looking at it as a problem or an opportunity. And I love the Vesta team. I've learned so much from being a part of so many of your hub calls.

and how everybody collectively works together, the real estate agent, the mortgage broker, the legal advice, the CDFA, the coach. I love the fact that it's like collaborative, yet not a collaborative process. That's really important. And for the listeners who don't know what a true collaborative process is, is that the collaborative divorce process

would be that you have each have your own legal counsel, you sign an agreement that you will be coming to an agreement without going to litigation. Sometimes you have coaches in the room, sometimes you have mediators in the room, sometimes you have CDFAs all in one room and you're signing a document that you will get to an agreement. But you are paying for all of those professionals to be in that room negotiating together. And if the case that you do not come to an agreement,

then you actually need to start all over again. So that being said, the investor approach is very collaborative, yet you're not signing a piece of paper against that saying that you are going to reach an agreement through this process with all these people. So I just wanted to clarify for people collaborative.

in terms of an approach like Vesta versus collaborative law, which is a totally different approach. Yeah, they like some of the professionals will say the little C versus the big C, right? Great, great, great way of thinking about it. So I do want to dive in. So that's a little bit about Vesta Divorce. And I do want everybody who's listening in to check out Vesta Divorce.com, because it really is an amazing resource. And I know personally, I didn't have Vesta when I started my process.

And I know Mandy, she didn't have Vesta when she started her process. And so many of my coaching clients just don't know even where to start. And although as a coach, I always say you should start with a coach, but yet you do also need to figure out who your support team is gonna be. Check them out. really do give them rave, rave, rave reviews because I wish I had them when I was starting my process. So, Mandy.

I want to really talk about you and I want to talk about your background. And first, I want to talk about not your own divorce, but I really want to dive into your parents' divorce. Yeah. I have to tell you, as I was preparing for our conversation today, I really kind of got thrown back into what life was like back in the late 80s.

which is kind of amusing to think about. And then as I was processing it, I realized that my parents were doing nesting before nesting was even a thing, right? And it was really because there was, I don't know if you were, I know that you're much younger than me. I don't know you are not. I'm not. There was such, it was such an economic downturn in the late 80s and we could not sell our family home.

And that was gonna be how my parents each kind of like went off the traditional route of each got their own place. But the house sat on the market and my parents went through with the divorce and we were all still living there. And I remember my friends from high school, like how weird is that? But for some reason, somehow they made it feel normal.

You know, I think it definitely has skewed my idea of what normal is, right? Because it's it wasn't like this traditional life. somehow in all the messiness of it, we made it work and we still had family dinners and we still did things together. But I think that because we all had to live together, it

really made things easier when we did go our own way in terms of already having established that we were still a family, even though my mom and dad weren't married anymore. So can I interrupt for one second? Because I have a couple of clarifications. So again, let's talk what nesting is. Because many people don't really understand that there's a variety of different ways people can nest.

And the way that you're talking about nesting and the way that I nest with my ex-husband is actually two different things. So tell me about what nesting was to your parents and how they either had on duty or off duty kid time. Like what was the, what were the boundaries? What were the, I don't know, rules of the household and how they were raising their kids together?

parents, it's actually when I when I was remembering it, I don't. So we it was a three way to three bedroom colonial. And so mom and dad each had their own room. And I remember there was a time when my mom and I were actually sharing the master suite together. And my dad and my brother had their own bedrooms. And then I remembered.

feeling like this is, I'm not okay with this. And I ended up going moving downstairs into the dining room that we converted into a bedroom for me. And so that we all kind of had our own quarters. But honestly, we still operated like a family. didn't there weren't the boundaries the way that some people would.

put in place now, right, where they would say, okay, you you're on duty, you know, Tuesday, Thursday, and then, you know, every other weekend starting, you know, Friday at five through Monday or whatever it may be. I think that they just divided it out as if they were still married, you know, someone would take me here and then, you know, would my dad would do something with my brother or, you know, vice versa, however it worked out. But I think that because we didn't realize that it was

this alternative way, right, of separating out your family. So there wasn't, I don't think, as conscious of a conversation about it as there would be today if folks were doing it. So the way that my ex and I nest, and just to clarify kind of the fact that there is no one way, and I want that everybody who's listening clear, you know, there isn't one way of doing things. And the way that we nest is that we have a two-bedroom, two-bath apartment.

apartment. We each have our own space in the house, but we don't actually do overnights the same nights. So I have the kids in the house Monday, Tuesday, and my ex is in the apartment Monday, Tuesday. He comes in on Tuesday night. He stays until Friday morning in the house, and I move into the apartment. And we have a lot of rules around like

cleanliness and leaving food in the refrigerator for the next day. So if he gets in at Tuesday night and my son wakes up on Wednesday morning, there's food in the refrigerator for him for breakfast and lunch. So we're conscious about the groceries. We're conscious about cleaning up after ourselves. We're conscious about dividing and conquering anything that needs to get done for the kids on the days by which we are in the house and with them.

And then outside of that, sports and taking, you know, going to their sporting events and things like that, we're sitting on the sidelines together. You know, we're cheering on our kids at the same time. And like you, we had family game night, we have family dinner nights. Like we still get together and do things collectively. So you had said like sharing or being like a traditional family. Well, there isn't really an idea of traditional family.

I mean, even when people are married, they're running around with their head chopped off. Somebody is traveling for work three days a week and is in a different city and one person's taking care of the kids and making sure they're at their activities. There's no one way to be a family. So the fact is that I love the idea that you guys just, you didn't have structure and that worked for you at the time. And I deal and coach with clients that they don't

have as much structure either, and that works for them. Maybe they've got two very busy jobs and they can't be predictable in their time, so they create a flexible lifestyle for themselves. That works for them. I love the fact that you're talking about nesting, because you know, Vandy, it's so, it's close to my heart, because I do think it's working for us, and we have older children. But people who've got younger children,

You can do this as a transitional time. Yeah. I'll never forget when we were talking a couple of weeks ago and you had said that you always feel like you're living out of a suitcase and that you're always in transition. it broke my heart because that's how my son must have felt for however many years of his life that he was going back and forth to mom's house and dad's house. And I think I shared with you that the first time

that he felt completely settled was when he went to college. And for the first time, he had all of his stuff in one spot. I mean, it makes me sad, you know, but. Yeah, I know I'm going to come to tears too, because like I remember you're saying that and you had that like moment where you're like, gosh, like that's that's what my kid has been going through. And like I said, I have a lot of empathy for it because

My suitcase stays packed and it just goes in and out of my car. Anybody who can find a way to create a place and a way for your children to not have to be the travelers, at least not for ... And I know so many people do such a good job with the two residences. They make sure that everything is double-stocked.

It's not like the cleats have to be in one house and another. They have two pairs of cleats. know, it's like some people can really, really do a good job of drawing some attention as to or being proactive, you know, as to like what the issues could be about feeling settled and do a really good job of taking inventory and doubling down. But financially, like that's not easy for everybody to do, to buy two sets of cleats and two backpacks and, you know, a full set of everything. So.

You have to meet yourself where you are and what you're going to be capable of doing. kind of like going back to like the feelings. And I loved the fact that you has been able to draw back on some awareness. But when your parents were getting divorced or got divorced and they were still living under the same roof, can you reflect on the confusion that might have

to try and understand why two people who are still living together under the same roof and functioning like a more traditional family back then needed to get divorced. Yeah, I mean, I honestly think that it definitely left me always wondering, can they get back together? Could they get back together? And, you know, as I shared in my little.

little summary, they did end up getting back together for a very brief period of time after my son was born. But yeah, no, it was confusing. And I thought that I didn't think it was real. I thought that they were it was it was something that was just going to get was just going to get resolved. Now, I mean, I also want to be honest with the fact that when this was all happening, I was so consumed with myself and where I, you know,

I was so involved in high school. was thinking about college and where I was gonna go and looking at places. So I don't think that my parents' divorce affected me as much as it did my little brother who is five and a half years younger than me. And I think that it was probably more confusing for him because I was already...

consume with myself, right? And like what my life was and trying to build my life. Whereas he was still a little guy. And I think he probably felt more, you know, what did I do? Because little kids think that the divorce is their fault. Like, what could I have done differently to make mom and dad stay together? Whereas I don't know if I had those feelings or not. Or at least I don't remember feeling that way.

Do you, how old was he when your parents? So he was probably nine or 10. And so did they stay nesting until he graduated? No, no. I mean, really it was the, my parents only stayed in the same house out of necessity. It wasn't because they wanted to. And as soon as things turned, I was, I had moved, was in college by this point, they had,

they sold the home and they went their own ways. And I think my brother ended up primarily staying, living with my mom. And I really feel so detached from that period of my life because I was a freshman in college, I was at BU, I was living my best life. So he had the experience of, said primarily he lived with mom, so he probably didn't live out of a suitcase going back and forth and back and forth.

maybe he did every other weekend with Doug or something. And how does he reflect? Have you ever sat down with him and asked him how he reflects back on that time? No, we were not as close as I had hoped that we would become in our older years for a variety of different reasons. You know, he's got his own set of demons. Yeah. I mean, and you know, we can only, you know, I never when people

believe and have thoughts or beliefs that, you know, divorce is what causes, you know, people's direction in life. You know, I think that we can only do the best that we can do for our kids. And the most important thing is that we love them and that both parents share and show that love outwardly to our children. And I want to make sure that, you know, we all don't believe that

just because we're getting divorced, our kids are doomed because I just, that's just a belief system. It's not a fact. And the only thing that really matters is how much love you share back to them. And like you said, making sure they know it's not their fault, right? mean, making sure that the kids know that their parents are their parents and children that they're raising, you know, it's not their fault that.

they decided that they weren't gonna continue to stay married. One of the parent coaches within our network said something really powerful that has stuck with me is that, you know, as two people, right, that are uncoupling, are uncoupled and go on to live their lives, you know, they take their foot off the gas in terms of, you know, checking in with the kids and how things are going. But the reality of the divorce really happens for the child once the divorce.

is final, you know, in a case where mom and dad have two different residences and they may be going back and back and forth. And that just really that really stuck with me is that, you know, we have to continue to check in on our kids like after the divorce is final and make sure that they're adjusting to their new normal. mean, even if it is nesting that a couple is doing, it's still a change. It's still

It's still something from what they were used to. I know that one of the things that I notice with my son is that if my ex and I have a conversation but we disagree on something, not yelling, just for having a disagreement. And he's like, well, you and Dad still disagree. you still like, you know, like.

Yeah, but even if we were married, buddy, we would still be disagreeing. It's not like because we're divorced, we are having more disagreements. Like at least that's not in my situation. That's not the case. We're just agreeing to disagree on something that we both have different opinions on. But in his mind, he still sees disagreement. And I want to do that check-in with him, just like you're talking about.

to check in and say, know, just cause Dad and I are having a disagreement about this doesn't mean that we wouldn't have had the same disagreement if we were married. It's not the divorce disagreement that's being confronted. And so I think it's really important for all of our kids to recognize the differences between just a regular conversational disagreement and something that might be a divorce disagreement.

which, you know, whether it's, you who's paying for what or, and I hope that everybody keeps all of those divorce-related disagreements behind closed doors. yes, yes. Our kids don't need to hear it. They don't need to hear it. And one of the things I feel very proud of is that we were able to keep it behind closed doors and have conversations that were difficult.

but using language in a communication style that was never accusatory and from a place of kindness and understanding and curiosity. You did this and this is how it made me feel. Did you mean to do that? And was that the emotion that you were trying to get out of me? And in some ways, I feel that our

communication today, I don't think we would have ever gotten divorced. I know. have the same thing. I pinch myself sometimes to think about the fact that was like, gosh, we have become better, kinder, generous, thoughtful individuals post-divorce. We really work very, very hard to...

you know, to communicate on a different level. But then again, I think to myself, well, how beautiful is that? Like I still get to have this person in my life who I'm, you know, I'm not married to anymore, but like we're better parents now because we're communicating on a different level. So it's so great. So let's talk about your divorce. So we talked about your parents' divorce. How it was...

you know, amicable, they even tried to get back together so amicable that like, and then they realized why they probably were getting divorced. tell me about your marriage and how that marriage, you know, ended. And it sounds like your son was pretty young. He was very young. Yeah, he was too. It was shortly after his second birthday that I moved out of our the residential, like the home that we were in.

And the divorce itself took another year or so. So it seems like, you know, your son was pretty young and he probably doesn't even remember mom and dad being together. He doesn't, which blows my mind. And not that I want to like scar the kid, but I'm like, look, see, we were married. I don't want him to think that he was like, you know, an afterthought. He's like, I know, mom, I know you're married. But you know, what's amazing is that his dad and

current wife have been together for, I mean, that's all that Michael remembers. And he has such a beautiful relationship with his bonus mom that it makes me so happy. I mean, how could I begrudge the kid, all the adults that love on him? I know, and I say that to anybody. So my dad got remarried and his wife,

She is my stepmom. probably should call her my bonus mom. And I've heard that multiple times, but you know, my mom and her got along great. And she, when I would get in fights with my mom as a teenager, she would call in and we'd conference call and she'd facilitate. That's my stepmom. And then she bought a house and would flow my mom out to help her design. My mother was an architect. helped, my mother helped design her house.

And the crazy thing is my dad didn't stay married to her. He went on and actually had another wife later on. I mean, they were married for like 11 years, but she is my kid's Grammy. Like she's the Grammy that my kids know. My mom passed before my kids were born. So she's the Grammy they know. And it was after my dad divorced her was my, when my kids were born. So I always say just what you said.

the more people that can love these children and support them, the better. So tell me a little bit about the dynamic between you and his wife, because I am interested in that. Yeah, I mean, she, I have to give her so much credit. She never got involved in any of the planning or the scheduling or figuring out holidays or vacations. She says, I just let you and Ed take care of it.

And she really never got involved, which I think that is me, with my personality, I don't know if I could have done the same, right? So I give her mad, mad props for that. And she really treats Michael so well, like he is a son to her. And they have two kids together. And it's not Michael's half brothers or Michael's brothers.

And we never, in our language and how we talk about it, it's not, I don't know, it's just family. And we have even, they had Michael and I to the house a couple of Christmases. We had Christmas morning breakfast together, which is lovely. We would go to, we,

go to the games together, sometimes we drive together, we always sit next to one another. And it's been kind of weird with Michael at college. I miss it. The camaraderie. go over a glass of wine. We can put up this picture. I know. And just at graduation, all being together. I mean, to me, if you're

relationship as a couple isn't going to work out, then let's just try to make the best of a difficult process and situation. I don't know if I'd ever want to go away with her for the weekend, right? But I like her enough. And I love the fact that she loves my son. I know. And I love it. And now you're remarried as well, correct? I am. I am. And I'll tell you, 2.0 is so much better.

Because it's like we bring all the knowledge, right, from the 1.0 into it. I also feel that I was just so young and so immature when I got married. I didn't know who I was, what I wanted to be. I had no idea what marriage was. mean, even though my parents have an amicable, or I should start saying past tense, right, with my mom passing, had an amicable

relationship. you know, I, but I didn't know how to do the married thing. and obviously from the work I do with Festa and having now seen healthy marriages around me, I know how to be a better partner. And I think that Dave would say the same and with Dave came to bonus kids. you've got bonus kids.

That's on your side. Yes, yes. And they are wonderful. And I know what my role is in their life. And that's to be a trusted adult and to be an advocate for their mom. I love to hear that. That is so important. And we talk about everybody having to be on the same page and to not throw the other parent under the bus and to only act as a supporting partner.

Because you know what, always gonna, when I told our kids we're getting divorced and I just said to them, you know, I know that we're not gonna be this same family dynamic, but we are gonna be a re-envisioned family. And I think that that is so important for people who are going through the process to understand that you're always gonna be family. And yes, if you go on and you meet somebody and that is just an extended family that you should embrace on both sides.

So I do, so I know we're running out a little bit of time here, but I have just a couple of more questions. So I wrote a blog that was something that I thought about as, you know, I've got kids who are, one's almost out of the house, one is out of the house in college. And I just noticed that, you know, in this timeframe, lots of people are kind of going through this life transition. A lot of divorce happens when kids are moving out of the house.

and you're moving into the next chapter of your life. So I wrote this blog about the 20-year marriage contract. And I know that you got divorced, you know, after a couple of years or a few years, but yet a lot of people get divorced within that 15, 20, 25 years. What do you think about a 15 to 20-year marriage contract with the option to renew?

It's so funny because I saw that in your email. So as David, I were going to bed last night. He's like just about to like to go into the snoring zone of it. I was like, what do you think about the 1520? He's like, what are you talking about? So we talked a little bit about it last night. And, I can tell you, you know, the first thing that came to my mind was it would make me try harder. It would make me.

do all the little things that maybe I may not want to do today because I'm tired or because I've got too much work to do. I would carve out that time and nurture my marriage and nurture our time as a couple or try to plan date nights or work on my languaging, you know, when we communicate so that I'm not using accusatory words, right? And, and, and

coming from a place of curiosity rather than judgment, it probably would help a lot of couples really. Yeah, again, there is no right answer. I'm going to ask all my guests that have gone through marriage. And some of my guests are just adult children of divorces and aren't married. But the ones that have been married, I am super curious. And the other thing is that we've made divorce so hard.

created such a stigma around divorce. it just, and that, you know, we feel, or some individuals might feel shame. Children of divorced parents feel like they need to drop their head and have a level of embarrassment because their parents are getting divorced when they walk through the hallways of school and people find out, like, how can we prevent all of that from happening? 50 % of people who are getting married are getting divorced. So why are we making it so difficult to get divorced?

And my idea around the 15 to 20 year marriage contract, and I know there is prenuptial agreements, but there are things that happen early on in marriages, like one person deciding to stay home to raise the kids. Well, if that's the case, put something on paper because that is.

a decision you're making as a couple. And then, you know, if one person is the financial supporter for 15 to 20 years, and then you decide to not renew on your marriage, there needs to be reflection of that decision point by which there's compensation for that without hatred or that a lot of people getting divorced who have been supporting another individual feel like, should I give them my money?

Right? And so anyway, I love the fact that you are coming from that position of, yeah, I'd work harder. And just that alone, we should all be opening our eyes to it. And there's so many other layers that could potentially take place. But Mandy, I am so, so happy that you have decided to become a guest on this today. Mandy is just one of my favorite people. She has really made not just like my divorce process,

more meaningful in terms of encouraging me to continue down this path of getting more people to be better than bitter. And my involvement in Vesta has just been incredible. And I do want to again, drive everybody to vestadivorce.com to figure out how divorce concierge services can help you. And I do want everybody to know that this is a free service.

Vesta Divorce Concierge is not a paid concierge service. They do this for free. They vet these professionals for you and they connect you with people that are gonna work for you. So please take advantage of that. So thank you again, Mandy. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure and I am so grateful that you're part of our organization and I know that we are gonna continue to change the landscape together. I hope so. Let's cheers to that one.

So thank you for coming together today for our second episode of the Better Than Bitter podcast. Mandy was such a great guest and I can't say enough about Vesta Divorce. And if you are somebody that are just starting your process or maybe you've started your process and are just not feeling confident with the support system you've created for yourself, please visit vestadivorce.com.

and you will be supported in your efforts. They have such an incredible network of divorce professionals nationwide who can help you in this process. So some of the key takeaways today are the fact that one, nesting. We talked all about nesting and that Mandy's nesting experience and my nesting experience are two totally different nesting experiences. And if you have an interest in learning more about nesting,

We do a lot with our clients at Better Than Bitter. So please visit us at betterthanbitter.coach to learn more about how you can explore nesting for your own family. The second key point here is how to have a child-centered divorce, meaning that learning how to communicate with your soon-to-be ex to really benefits your children, making sure that you are working towards the common thread of making them feel loved.

And so no matter what your living arrangements are, your custody arrangements, love is necessary during this time and after you've already gotten divorced and making sure you continue to check in with your children. And the third thing that I love that Mandy brought up is that, you know, if your ex ends up getting remarried or if you end up getting remarried, you might have bonus children. And all you can hope for is that

as a bonus parent or if you have a child that gets a bonus parent, that the more people that love them, the better. Thanks for tuning in to Better Than Bitter, navigating an amicable divorce. Whether you are at the beginning of your divorce journey, midway through, or even done, we want the stories from our guests to give you hope that an amicable resolution is possible.

If you'd like to dive deeper into today's episode, check out our show notes for a full transcript, reflections and links to learn more about Better Than Bitter's coaching courses and how to connect with our fabulous guests. If you're ready for more support, you can head over to betterthanbitter.coach. There you'll find details and additional information on our five-step game plan multimedia course.

our one-to-one Zoom coaching, group coaching, monthly memberships, events and retreats, and a whole lot more. Plus, we've got a ton of free resources, like our monthly newsletter, our private Facebook group, Instagram channel, and a library of articles and free webinars to help you along the way. When you go to our website, you'll be able to schedule a free 45-minute breakthrough call.

Remember, we're here to help you reach an amicable resolution. Find your courage and believe in your brighter future. Because you know what? It is possible. At Better Than Bitter, we measure success by what we give and not by what we get. So let's change the divorce dialogue together. It's time to be better than bitter.