AI can help HR teams move faster, but Miranda Pokoy argues that it should never be the first answer to a broken process. In this Future Proof HR conversation, Miranda shares how her background in workforce planning, resource allocation, and HR infrastructure shaped her practical approach to building systems before adding technology.

The episode centers on a simple question HR leaders face right now: what are we actually trying to solve for? Miranda and Jim discuss why AI and automation are most effective when they accelerate a process that is already clear, measurable, and grounded in the realities of the business.

They also cover how Partnerize thinks about lean HR team design, the balance between finance-driven efficiency and people-centered optimization, and why "solve first, hire last" does not automatically mean "automate first." Miranda shares examples across hiring, learning and development, manager enablement, individual development plans, and employee growth.

For HR leaders deciding where AI belongs in their function, this conversation offers a useful lens: start with the pain point, tighten the process, define the outcome, and then decide whether technology can help.

Topics Discussed:

• Why HR teams need a strong process foundation before applying AI
• How workforce planning and resource allocation prepared Miranda for HR leadership
• The "what are we trying to solve for?" question as a prioritization tool
• Why automation can amplify chaos when the underlying process is weak
• How HR leaders can bridge finance's cost lens with people optimization
• What "solve first, hire last" looks like inside a lean HR team
• How Partnerize approached L&D without a full-time L&D resource
• Building ideal candidate profiles, competencies, and hiring scorecards
• Guardrails for using candidate profiles without creating rigid hiring filters
• How AI-generated resumes are changing recruiter workload and screening
• Making employee growth more intentional with career paths and IDPs
• Using technology to support manager-employee development conversations
• Why AI should be treated as an accelerant, not a cure

If you are an HR, people operations, talent acquisition, or L&D leader thinking about where AI should fit into your organization, this episode is a practical reminder to solve the right problem before choosing the tool.

Additional Resources:

• Cleary's AI-powered HR Chatbot
• Future Proof HR Community
• Connect with Miranda Pokoy on LinkedIn

We're getting many more unqualified resumes through

2

the process now that everyone is

running things through ChatGPT

3

I mean, technology,

whether it's automation

4

AI

5

it is an accelerant

6

it is not a cure to fix everything

7

What should we tackle?

8

Where should we start?

9

Those are two questions that HR leaders

are probably thinking about right now when

10

it comes to how to apply AI and technology

within their environments And the reason

11

why they're thinking about those questions

is because there's so much stuff that you

12

could do to within the environment, or

at least that's what everybody tells you.

13

There are so many different

applications that you can utilize

14

to help your organization.

15

But should you really be thinking about

the technology side of the equation first?

16

Or would your time be better

spent focusing in on some other

17

areas that need to be optimized

before you apply technology?

18

And those are the questions that we're

gonna answer today in our conversation

19

with Miranda Pokoy So Miranda is the

Chief People Officer at Partnerize

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they're a leader in AI-driven

partnership marketing technology.

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Miranda serves as the strategic bridge

between talent and execution, and she's

22

got over 20 years of experience within

HR and workforce planning MarTech space.

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She's built a career transforming

organizations by viewing business

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performance through a people-centric lens.

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And beyond the traditional scope of

HR, leads the project and integration

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management offices, creating operational

connective tissue that allows teams

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to execute complex strategies.

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Today, she's focused on navigating

the intersection of human intelligence

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and AI, leveraging technology as a

powerful accelerant while maintaining

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the belief that solid processes and

people remain critical as elements

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for driving sustainable growth.

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Jim Kanichirayil: Miranda,

welcome to the show

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Miranda Pokoy: Oh, thank you so much.

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Nice to be here, Jim

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Jim Kanichirayil: Yeah.

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I'm looking forward to the conversation.

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It should be a lot of fun to

get into the weeds with you

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and find out what you're doing.

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I think before we get into the nuts

and bolts of what we're gonna talk

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about, I think it's gonna be important

to to get a little bit more of a view

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into the organization and kind of

the landscape that you operate in.

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So why don't you take a few minutes and

share that with the audience, and then

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we'll we'll dive into the conversation

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Miranda Pokoy: Sure.

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Awesome.

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So spent the last 20 years in the

HR space, and really I started,

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though, in the trenches of workforce

planning and resource allocation.

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So I was working side by side with

different teams and the delivery

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operations team to figure out

how we put the right butts in

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the right seat at the right time.

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And then in 2015, I actually took that

experience and really pivoted into more

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of a traditional HR role and at the

time was tasked with building the HR

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infrastructure for a, an organization

that was being divested from eBay.

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So this was in partnership

with our SVP of HR.

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But to be honest, I had no idea

what I was doing to some extent.

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So although I worked tangentially

with the HR and talent acquisition

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teams over the years at the same

time, standing up a brand new

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organization was very foreign to me.

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But at the same time was also foreign to

the other people in the HR team as well.

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So learned very quickly to lean

on consultants and research and

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to some extent trial by fire,

and we got some things right,

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and we got some things wrong.

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But this was all at a time where AI

didn't really exist, and so I think

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this will be a kind of a great jumping

off point for our conversation today.

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Because while we used AI today to do a lot

of those different things that we took for

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granted in the past, it's really important

that you have a good foundation and

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understanding of processes and structure

before jumping into using technology.

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Jim Kanichirayil: So one of the

interesting things about what you just

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mentioned is that before you transitioned

into the traditional sort of HR seat,

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you spent time on the resource side of

it and delivery operations side of it.

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And you also described a scenario where

you were thrown into an environment where

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you didn't really know how to tackle it.

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There were people around you that

didn't know how to tackle it.

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What I'm curious about is when you look

back on your experience in the resource

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delivery side or the delivery operations

side, how do you feel that prepared

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you to tackle the uncharted territory

where you're in this new environment,

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where you're new in the role, new in the

function, or new-ish in the function,

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and you're going through the divestiture

process and standing up something new

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in the process of that divestiture?

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How do you feel the your

previous experience prepared

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you for the, for those moments?

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Miranda Pokoy: So for me, when I started

in workforce planning and resource

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allocation, that was a new world for me

at that point as well, eight or so years

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prior to the transition into the HR realm.

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And so I was used to that.

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I love building.

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I love learning new things.

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I also am very solutions-oriented,

so I look for I'm what I'm trying

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to solve for, and I go find the

different paths to be able to do that.

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I think that, in and of itself,

because I had built out a resource

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team and process and structure, as

well as implemented tools to deploy

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and execute that structure, it was

a repeatable way for me to approach

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new world that I was stepping into.

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And so I took some of those

and experiences, and I just

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applied them into this new world

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Jim Kanichirayil: So one of

the interesting things that you

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just mentioned was the question:

what am I trying to solve for?

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The reason why it stood out to me is

that oftentimes when we're talking

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about how leaders of all stripes, but

HR leaders in particular, when they're

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looking at how do I actually embed AI

into my environment, there's so many

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different ways to do it that you get stuck

and you have too many options, so you

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don't really make any movement forward.

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So when you think about what am I trying

to solve for, that particular question,

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how do you leverage that to inform your

priorities on what to tackle within

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a function, within an enterprise, so

that you're always focused on first

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and highest leverage items as you go

through your your change management

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plan or your initiative execution plan?

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Miranda Pokoy: Yeah, I think

that's a great question.

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In the world of AI it's a hot topic.

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Everyone wants to use AI to

create efficiencies, move faster.

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But oftentimes if you don't have,

especially in a more complex structure,

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you don't have your processes in

place and fine-tuned, you're just

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potentially masking issues with

applying AI or automation to something

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that is not foundationally sound.

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So while you think about how you can

use AI to speed things up, I use Gemini

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every day for basic tasks, but as I

think about a more complex task that

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I need to solve for in an organization

such as, improving our overall hiring

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and offer acceptance rate as, or,

developing content for, and deploying

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content from a learning perspective, I

need to look at those types of situations

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and figure out what the challenges are

that I need to solve for before I just

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throw automation or AI on top of it.

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Thomas Kunjappu: This has been

a fantastic conversation so far.

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If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

124

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

125

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

126

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

127

can all thrive in the age of AI.

128

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

129

community.

130

Now back to the show.

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Jim Kanichirayil: Expand

on that a little bit.

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And particularly what I'm interested

in is understanding why it's a bad

133

idea to go automation or AI first as

your solution set for a particular

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problem that you're in front of

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Miranda Pokoy: Sure.

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So if I use hiring for an example, right?

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There are a million ATS systems

out there nowadays, and I've

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used a few in my career.

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But you don't have a process set and

established and hiring managers don't

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know how to interview, you're just

throwing automation at a problem.

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That's not going to solve

your hiring problem.

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It's going to potentially just

give you a tech system that

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is a database for for resumes.

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And so it's really important when you

think about a complex situation like

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hiring, that you have a process, a

structured process mapped out that is

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going to tell your teams how to optimize

and hire the best talent possible.

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But a tool is not going to tell you that.

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It will accelerate a process that

you've created if it is sound.

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But if it's not sound, you're just

going to have chaos in your system

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Jim Kanichirayil: So it's interesting

that you bring up the ATS example because

151

there was-- earlier in my career, I worked

for an ATS company, and my leadership

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would get mad at me when I would tell

heads of TA and heads of HR to map out

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their process for how they actually do

everything in the candidate life cycle,

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everything in the employee life cycle.

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And I would get six different answers.

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And in that discovery phase, my

leadership would get irritated 'cause

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I would tell these leaders, "Look,

you can spend $50,000 on a product.

158

It's just gonna give you more of

the same because it-- none of you

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can explain to me exactly how you

do things on a consistent basis."

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So if you don't have a consistent

process and you apply technology to it,

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you're gonna still have an inconsistent

process and inconsistent results.

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And I often say a structured,

repeatable process helps you

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identify defect a lot faster than

an unstructured, repeatable process.

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So it's interesting that you

mention that, but I wanna I wanna

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tie this into something else that

you might have experience with.

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When we think about technology and AI

in particular, there's a certain opinion

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that comes out of the finance side of

the house and a certain opinion that

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comes out of the HR side of the house.

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When we're talking about HR as a function,

I'm sure anybody that's listening to

170

this conversation, and you've already--

y-you've probably already heard the term

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or phrase, "You gotta do more with less."

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Finance is always gonna be looking

for building more efficiency

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with whatever you're doing, and

that's a cost-cutting approach.

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HR being ideally a people-focused

enterprise isn't necessarily

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looking at these solutions as a way

to, cut people from their roster.

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Might be looking at how do we maximize

the people that we have so that

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they're doing higher leverage work.

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So the reason why I frame it that way

is I'm curious if you've encountered

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that conversation and how you bridge

the gap between cost control that

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comes typically out of the finance

side to people optimization, which is

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generally where I find most HR leaders

sitting when they think about AI.

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How do you reconcile both of those

both of those approaches when you're

183

trying to figure out what the right

strategy is for your organization?

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Miranda Pokoy: So if I focus it

specifically on the HR side of the

185

business and just within my team, I

run a, I call it my mean, lean team.

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They are great, but we-- It's-- We

are very streamlined, and one of the

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things that we continue to look at in…

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I work very closely with our finance

leaders, is we're not going to be

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able to add headcount within my

organization unless it's probably

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on the talent acquisition side.

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And so how do we then structure ourselves

from an organizational design perspective,

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structure our processes, leverage

the tools that we have or without AI,

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but automation, in order to have the

biggest impact across the organization.

194

And oftentimes it's going to come

down to business outcomes and expected

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business outcomes from the, from our

executive leadership team that I sit

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on, and my ability to convey what

we can and cannot do and deliver for

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the team in terms of those business

outcomes with the staff we have.

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And the same thing can be said

for looking at it across the

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broader organization, right?

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So there's a ton of tools out there

today that should create some level of

201

efficiency, whether you're looking at

tech- technology teams or marketing teams.

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But at the same time, we need to balance

that human interaction with AI because

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Jim Kanichirayil: AI

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Miranda Pokoy: cannot do everything today.

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It needs people, it needs

information from people to be

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able to deliver the right outputs.

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And so it's really about looking at

kind of this adjustment of what our

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people are doing, the skill sets that

they need to be able to bridge the

209

gap and work in collaboration with

AI, and those are the conversations

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that I have with my executive team

specifically our finance folks quite

211

often as we talk about, bringing

more headcount into the organization.

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We have a corporate strategy

that is focused on solve first,

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hire last, but that solve first

does not mean AI or automation.

214

It may mean looking at processes first.

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How can we make changes to our

approach with the, without the

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default always being to hire first?

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Jim Kanichirayil: So let's dig in there.

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So specific to your HR team when you think

about, how many people you have on your

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team and you're applying the solve first,

hire last philosophy to it and we're

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taking a technology independent lens to

solving first, what are the things that

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you noticed across your HR team that you

needed to solve first before doing any

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hiring or applying any technology to it?

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What were the things that you noticed?

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Miranda Pokoy: I have a team that…

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So I think it starts with we have a

global organization and across four

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continents, so there's complexity in that.

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And so with my team more

recently, we just took a look

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at what is everyone doing today?

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Where, like, how are we organized?

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Because I think that's a critical place to

start, putting processes even to the side.

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How do we wanna deploy that talent that

exists today within the organization?

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What are their strengths?

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What are areas of development?

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How can we maybe develop

in some of those areas?

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But then deploying the people that

I have within my team appropriately

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to support the broader business.

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It starts with looking inwards at the

competencies within the organization

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that you have available to you, and

how to deploy that accordingly across

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the broader landscape of the team.

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So that's really our starting point,

and we've actually been having this

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conversation as recent as this past week,

'cause we are making some adjustments

242

to better suit the way our business is

scaling and structured in other areas

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Jim Kanichirayil: So I get that from a

theoretical perspective, but you just

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described an environment where you're

a global team across four continents.

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There's not a lot of

wiggle room that you have

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not

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when you're talking about that, and the

workload is gonna remain consistent.

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So where do you start when

you look at that constraint?

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If you're covering that type of

geography, running lean sounds great

250

in theory, but you still need bodies in

seats to get the right sort of people

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experience in order to be effective.

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So how did you manage that?

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Miranda Pokoy: We are

still sorting that out.

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It's a huge challenge and one that

we continue to look at, are there

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parties that we can leverage for

certain gaps that we have, right?

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Are there process changes that we can

make to streamline how we operate?

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And then for me, we also have a

gap from an L&D perspective, which

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is a big gap for an organization.

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People stay with organizations because

they see growth opportunity, and so it's

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critical that of that growth opportunity

is hands-on learning and training.

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you don't have that resource,

even at an organization of our

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size, which is about 350 people,

you have to find a solve for it.

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And so I knew that was a gap we

had, but we have a ton of talent

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in the organization and subject

matter experts in every function.

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And so in that particular case, I did

look at automation and tooling to bridge

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that gap, being able to engage with an

LMS organization that had built AI in

267

that I didn't need to go out and hire

instructional designers but we can use

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their structure and leverage our SME

experts as content curators, which has

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now put n- put us in a position to be

able to that learning and development

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experience even though we don't have a

full-time L&D resource in the organization

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Jim Kanichirayil: So let's dig in there.

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When you look at…

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I like your point about growth.

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So my background is on the

retention and turnover side.

275

That's what my doctoral research is on.

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And growth is usually in the top five

when people leave an organization, lack of

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growth usually shows up in the top five.

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One in three usually ends up

being manager-related issues.

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So if you have bad management, you're

usually gonna be stuck in a situation

280

where you aren't growing either.

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So tho- those things are related.

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So when you look at driving growth across

the employee population, what were some

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of the key outcomes that you were looking

to deliver as an HR leader in examining

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the processes, in examining what you

could apply automation to, and later on,

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how that informs your hiring decisions?

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Miranda Pokoy: Yeah.

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We're, we're very metric focused.

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I'm on a monthly basis readouts on offer

acceptance, time to hire, time to fill,

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quality of hire, looking at non sorry,

regrettable turnover, attrition, making

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sure that We are progressing in the

way that we want to as an organization.

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And those are the things that I am looking

at when I am developing any new process

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or looking at introducing a new piece

of technology into the organization.

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I- the longer term lag indicator

is how does it impact our ability

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to retain or obtain, right?

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Acquire, retain, and grow our

talent, because those are the

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three most critical pieces.

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Even in when you think about moving

to more AI native organizations,

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people are still going to exist

and want to grow and develop.

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And so those three pieces are critical

things to solve for, but those

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are going to be your lag measures.

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So you have to look at other leading

indicators to figure out if you're making

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that progress at the end of the day

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Jim Kanichirayil: So when

you look at those things,

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You're looking at the entire candidate

life cycle, and then beyond that,

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you're looking at the employee life

cycle in terms of how they're growing.

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So when you look at those two life cycle

elements and how you're gonna adjust

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your process so that it's optimized

before you apply technology to it what

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were the specific areas that you focused

on that that were gonna drive the

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biggest impact for your organization?

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Miranda Pokoy: So if you look at it

through the lens of the hiring process

311

and who we're bringing in, we need to make

sure that know what our ideal candidate

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profile is before we start that process.

313

And so we were very intentional, again,

before we even introduced technology, to

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defining roles, defining core competencies

and technical competencies for those

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roles, and then building out scorecards

that would help support the interview

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process to identify those skills and

competencies that we needed to bring in

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the ideal candidate for the organization.

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And I'll tell you, we

don't always get it right.

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And sometimes we think we know what

we want, and we'll be going, through a

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process, and midway through, and a light

bulb goes off, and you're like, "I think

321

that this profile needs to change."

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And so we go back to the drawing board.

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It's okay if the process needs to…

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If the scorecard needs to change.

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Something shifted within the

organization, the need has shifted.

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But if you don't make that adjustment,

and this has nothing to do with

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technology, you're going to then bring

people into the organization that are

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not the right fit for where you're going.

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So I think having that critical lens and

being able to say, "Okay, let's pause

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for a second, take a step back, and

make adjustments," is really important

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to getting things right when it comes

to and then retaining and building

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great culture and place that people

want to stay within an organization

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Jim Kanichirayil: So what I really

like about your answer I especially

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like developing an ideal candidate

profile as a best practice.

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And I think there's an element of

your answer where you talked about,

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okay, what are the outcomes that you

wanna drive out of this particular

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position that you have an opening for?

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I think those things are really important.

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The thing that I wonder about is

when you're defining what your ideal

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candidate looks like and you're defining

that profile, if you have somebody

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that isn't as mature from a business

perspective that's applying that

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profile to their screening process,

that can end up being very rigid.

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It's it's one of the things that I

always bump up against when people

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are using whatever psychometric

pre-hire measure a- assessment.

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One, oftentimes I find a ton of

HR leaders use them the wrong way.

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They use it as

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Predictive tr- tools

versus prescriptive tools.

348

And the same can be applied to

building that ideal candidate profile

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because you're gonna have edge cases

or people that don't fit the profile

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that have delivered the outcome.

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So what guardrails did you establish

in the environment so that you're using

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this as guidance versus a hard and

fast rule that ends up, potentially

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having you miss out on candidates that

that would otherwise be a good fit?

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Miranda Pokoy: Yeah, I think that's

a really great point, and what I will

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say is from a guardrails perspective

we wanted to create a structured hiring

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process so there was consistency in

our hiring practices and to move people

357

away from a gut feel versus a, an

evidence-based assessment of talent.

358

But when we look at the ideal candidate

profile, and there are going to be

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some key requirements that are just

non-negotiable dependent on the role.

360

And so our, our talent acquisition

team is very clear upfront in

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their process of what those are.

362

But at the same time, if they find

candidates that have certain competencies

363

that they know are transferable or skills

that are transferable, and they've gone

364

through an initial screening where they

see, six out of 10 of the requirements

365

fit, they're going to most likely move

that person through to the next round.

366

And again, it's not ever…

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It's not a checkbox l- box.

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Sorry.

369

It's not a checkbox but it's supposed

to be providing some guidance, so there

370

is that consistent assessment approach,

but we don't use it in that way.

371

And as we've coached and trained our

hiring managers and our hiring team,

372

we've walked them through how to think

about these things, and we still do this.

373

We're doing a lot of one-on-one coaching,

especially with new hiring teams, to

374

make sure that they're not approaching

it in a hard and fast way that if we just

375

check these boxes, we move them through.

376

There's both qualitative and

quantitative ways that they need to

377

look and approach the hiring process.

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Jim Kanichirayil: So I like I, I like

what you described there where you're

379

using a combination of qualitative

and quantitative approaches to

380

evaluate the quality of a candidate.

381

And I wanna stay in the candidate

life cycle for a second.

382

So you've decidedly built to this point

we've been talking about a non-technology

383

solution, defining the process, defining

the profile, defining the outcomes,

384

and then coaching to recognize those

outcomes in the candidate funnel.

385

And you've probably seen this on your end.

386

What's happening outside your walls

is that everybody is taking your

387

job description and plugging it

into GPT and saying, "Make my resume

388

look like this job description."

389

So now you have your ideal profile

and your ideal role description being

390

mirrored in a resume that may or

may not be real, and you're getting,

391

likely getting flooded with that.

392

So how has that-- have

you experienced that?

393

And if you have, how has that changed

or modified your selection process so

394

that the right candidates are getting

in the funnel versus just getting

395

inundated with a bunch of perfect-looking

candidates that end up washing out?

396

Miranda Pokoy: Yeah, I will say that I…

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So I'm not on the front lines of the

acquisition process, but it is a very

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big challenge that my team faces.

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The n- the funnel just

gets bigger and bigger too.

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So we're getting many more

unqualified resumes through the

401

process now that everyone is

running things through ChatGPT.

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So from a screening process

perspective, we are having to

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spend more time qualifying talent.

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And so it is the acquisition specialists,

the recruiters on the front line,

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who are having to weed out the people

whose resumes look really good on

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paper, but then when you get them

on the phone, they can't provide any

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examples of what they've actually done.

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So it is taking more time to

source talent than it has, I

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think, historically for people.

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But the tools themselves, we are trying

to leverage the technology and the tools

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uncover some of that, I don't wanna

call it fraud necessarily, but just

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inaccurate information where possible.

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But it has made the talent acquisition

role much harder, it takes more time

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to screen out that talent that is

not at the level that we would expect

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for the roles we're trying to hire

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Jim Kanichirayil: That might be the

first place that you would put some

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technology into it, 'cause it's ripe for

a knockout series of questions where,

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you know, what you would ask in a phone

screen, you could use that as a writing

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sample, and it'll still get across the

competency that you need, 'cause any

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candidate within your environment needs

to be able to communicate across a

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number of different channels very well.

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So if they can't speak directly to their

experience via a knockout question, then

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you can exclude that from the pile as

somebody that isn't a legit candidate.

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So I wanna look at the

other side of the equation.

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So we've spent some time talking about,

how process can be engineered from

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the candidate lifecycle perspective.

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But earlier in the conversation, you

talked about how growth is a big driver

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of retention, and you've done some things

internally that focus in on driving

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growth for-- at the employee level.

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So when you look at employee development

and growth, what are some of the

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things that you identified and changed

from a process perspective that

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made growth as an initiative, as an

internal initiative, more intentional?

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Miranda Pokoy: About two years ago,

we have a ju- we have a very junior

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segment of our organization, and so when

you have people coming in at the entry

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level they often want to see visually,

"How do I get to the next level?

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What does my career ladder look like?"

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And so as, in response to that, and

we were doing some of this proactively

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as well, we actually developed a,

what we call the Partnerize Grow And

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as part of that, we built out, and

this was pre-Gemini, we built out

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career paths for every functional

area within the organization in

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partnership with our functional leads.

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part of that, there was, the career

path, your career ladder, right?

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But also, we created core and technical

competencies to help people better

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understand as they developed in

their career, what were those skills

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or competencies that they needed to

develop to take them to the next level,

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not just specifically the job spec

says you're going to do X, Y, and Z.

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Because ultimately, it's ba- usually that

growth is based on skills that is, are

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developed in order to go up the ladder.

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We also looked at it through the

lens of giving people the opportunity

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to understand that a career is not

necessarily just a vertical ladder.

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There could be different

paths that one takes.

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Myself, I'm a perfect example of that,

and I share that with people that I talk

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to within the organization all the time.

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But you can make internal moves,

expand your skill set, transition

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from one area of the business

to another area of the business.

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So we were very intentional in

creating this organizational

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architecture and making it visible

to everyone in the organization.

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We did this all on paper first in

spreadsheets, and then more recently

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moved it into a technology to help

us accelerate the ability for people

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to take that information, pull it

into an IDP, and then meet with their

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managers to talk about, "Okay, I need

to develop in these areas to get here.

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Now, what resources does the

company have in order to support my

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development beyond just providing

that visibility on how do I grow?"

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Jim Kanichirayil: So I wanna pull on

a couple things in what you described.

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So you mapped out what the growth

trajectory looks like or even

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the organizational map of what

growth could look like manually.

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So somebody has a visual representation

of what a career path looks like, and

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then you applied it to technology.

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The other piece of the equation is you

mentioned specifically the idea of an

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IDP, an individual development plan.

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One of the big misses that I've seen

within organizations is that they push

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development down to the individual,

which basically eliminates or removes

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the responsibility of the manager

to facilitate that development.

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So when you look at moving that map

that you built manually, applying it to

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technology, now how are you leveraging

that technology to, force people to

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have development conversations both at

the individual level and at the manager

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level so it's more of a collaborative

exercise versus a if it happens.

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If it doesn't,

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Miranda Pokoy: yeah

480

Jim Kanichirayil: So how are you

making this process intentional on both

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sides versus leaving it up to chance?

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Miranda Pokoy: Sure.

483

So one of the things that we did at

the beginning of this year was in our

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goal-setting process at the corporate

level, one of our core strategies is

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around people development and retention.

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And as a result, that gets pushed

down and cascaded through the entire

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organization, and it is perspective

that it is the responsibility of

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both the manager and the employee to

collaborate on growth and development.

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So the tooling that we've put in

place enables that collaboration.

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We expect managers to have one-on-ones

with their employees on a weekly basis.

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The employee should drive the one-on-one

agenda while the manager adds to it

492

as well, and part of that, they have

a visibility within the technology

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to see the IDP that the employee

has and collaborate in the system.

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So all of it ties and inter- is

interwoven together in the tooling, we

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encourage the adoption of that tooling.

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We run reporting on it.

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We share that with our leaders to

make sure they're understanding,

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are their teams leveraging

the tools that we're using?

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Are people building out their IDPs?

500

Are they executing against them?

501

So we have that ability and visibility.

502

It's very transparent

across the organization.

503

And when we…

504

When it comes time to mid-year or

year-end reviews, one component of a

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manager's responsibility and their goals

is built upon the engagement scores of

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their teams building out IDPs as well.

507

Those individuals each should have one.

508

So we're being very intentional in making

this something that is really woven into

509

the DNA of our organization so that we

can continue to retain the great talent

510

that it took time and effort to bring in

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Jim Kanichirayil: So I like the

the practice of having regular

512

one-on-ones and having both parties

involved in their development.

513

The blocker that I see is from a

week-to-week basis, stuff happens

514

all the time, every single week,

and you're always shooting at like a

515

moving target because your priorities

can change from week to week.

516

So how do you build consistent

pillars where you have, an area or

517

two of focus until that's achieved

before you move on to the next thing?

518

Because otherwise you could be moving

you could be working on 52 half-baked

519

things over the course of a year

if you're having a week-to-week

520

one-on-one with an IDP conversation

that, that goes along with it.

521

How do you build consistency and focus?

522

Miranda Pokoy: I would say that the

IDP conversation doesn't have to

523

happen on a weekly basis, but at

least once a month, that should be

524

part of the one-on-one conversation.

525

And for me, with my team in particular,

we're looking at, on a quarterly

526

basis, setting some goals that

are tied to development of skills

527

that are coming out of that IDP.

528

And sometimes it's just a check-in.

529

Have you made any progress?

530

I understand X, Y, Z might

be your priority this week.

531

But if not, do you think we can

make sure that you're getting

532

that A in by the end of month two?

533

And so it's more of just making sure

we're using those one-on-ones for a

534

pulse check, and where there has been

progress made, we do spend a little bit

535

more time on that when that is the case.

536

But I look, I like to look at things

in chunks of quarters because again,

537

to your point, there are so many things

getting thrown at people, priorities

538

shift, work, BAU is coming in.

539

And so we do try to make sure

that people can carve out time for

540

their own growth and development.

541

Sometimes it doesn't happen on a weekly

basis, but at least making sure we're

542

looking at it and advocating for it

and supporting it on a monthly basis

543

is really important for me and for

my team, and what we then share with

544

our leaders to continue to empower

them to push that same message down.

545

Jim Kanichirayil: So a lot of our

conversation, we've spent time talking

546

on the TA side, and we've spent time

talking on the employee development

547

side, and both of those segments

have been focused on establishing

548

a sustainable or repeatable process

549

The various workflows

that we're talking about.

550

Now that you're closer to having that

defined process in place, what have

551

you identified as key areas where you

can apply automation to or technology

552

to, to take that to the next level now

that you know that you have consistency

553

and proce- of process in place?

554

Miranda Pokoy: So I think, again, for

me, many of the structures, I'll call

555

them, or programs that I've built

have been based off of building the

556

process first and then looking for

the technology to accelerate that.

557

So whether it's an ATS which has been

deployed to accelerate the hiring process,

558

and now with some of these ATSs, their

AI technology is extremely strong.

559

And so it continues to enable

us to iterate and improve on

560

what we once built offline.

561

And so that's one of the things that I'm

looking for whenever I am considering

562

deploying a new technology within my team

or even more broadly across the business.

563

The same goes for when

I'm looking at our LMS.

564

I looked at what I was solving

for upfront, which was a gap in

565

capacity to be able to actually

deploy more broadly across the

566

organization learning opportunities.

567

And so when we then look for the

technology to support that, it needs

568

to address, the issues or challenges

that we've identified offline.

569

And so that when we've been going

through that process each and every time

570

with these more complex situations and

programming, that's what I'm looking for.

571

And so I don't ever just go…

572

I don't have this FOMO not having all the

great new AI technology that is out there.

573

I'm being very intentional about what

type of AI or automation that I want to

574

deploy in the organization to solve the

critical challenges that we know we have

575

Jim Kanichirayil: So when you think about

everything that we've talked about and

576

even some of the things that we haven't

talked about, and you look at your focus

577

on having defined processes in place

before applying technology to it, I

578

want you to talk to those other peers

of yours who are at other companies who

579

are looking at the same thing trying

to figure out, "Okay where do I start?"

580

What are the key lessons that you've

learned in answering that question that

581

you feel is important to call out and

have that-- have on people's radar so

582

that they're making the right moves

at the right time versus throwing the

583

wrong solution at the wrong problem?

584

Miranda Pokoy: I would say l- look across

your organizations today and where are

585

your pain points, Start with what those

pain points are, if those pain points

586

tie back to processes, take a beat, look

to solve those pain points first in your

587

process, and then as you think about how

can I create more efficiency, move faster

588

so I can provide my team the ability

to operate at a more strategic level?"

589

Because I think that's what

we all really want to do.

590

Then solve for that with

technology, but make sure you have

591

your foundation in place first.

592

Technology, whether it's

automation, AI, it is an accelerant.

593

It is not a cure to fix everything

594

Jim Kanichirayil: Great stuff.

595

If people wanna continue the

conversation what's the best way

596

for them to get in touch with you?

597

Miranda Pokoy: Oh, sure.

598

I would love to continue the conversation.

599

I can be found on LinkedIn.

600

It's Miranda Pokoy.

601

I believe my LinkedIn handle

is randi165 R-A-N-D-I 165

602

Great stuff, Miranda.

603

Appreciate you hanging out with us

and sharing with us your thoughts

604

on how to tackle all the different

things that you can tackle with

605

technology from an HR context.

606

There's a lot that you mentioned that

I think is valuable for our guests,

607

but I think one of the first things

that stood out to me is your point

608

about what are we trying to solve for?

609

I think when we're looking at the world

of today, where you have so many different

610

options that you apply technology to,

answering that question is going to help

611

people prioritize and stack rank what's

important and tackle first things first.

612

The other thing that I find

that's really important about this

613

conversation is your point about

focusing in on the process first.

614

If you don't have a defined process, you

shouldn't be thinking about applying a

615

technology to it, because all technology

is going to do is make that process fail

616

faster than what you're doing right now.

617

One of the things that I always talk

about is it's important to have a

618

structured, repeatable process that

reduces variability and eliminates defect.

619

The reason why that's important is

because when you have that structured

620

process, you can identify where

the defect is easier, which will

621

allow you to triage it properly.

622

The mistake that a lot of organizations

make is that they haven't defined the

623

process, then they apply AI or technology

or automation to it, and whatever those

624

failure rates are before technologies

applied to it, you end up having those

625

failure rates pop up more often because

you haven't buttoned down your process.

626

So I think those two things are

critically important when you look

627

at change management and adoption,

is having a defined process and

628

understanding what you're solving for.

629

So appreciate you sharing that with us.

630

For those of you who've been

listening to this conversation,

631

we appreciate you hanging out.

632

If you like the discussion, make sure

you leave us a five-star review on

633

your favorite podcast player, and then

tune in next time, where we'll have

634

another HR leader hanging out with

us and sharing with us how they're

635

applying technology to future-proof HR.