Colin Hornby from Keystone Agricultural Producers joins The Future Herd for a conversation grounded in Manitoba, where agriculture operates with little insulation from volatility.

We explore how risk is managed in real time—across weather, markets, and rising input costs—and how those pressures move through a system that depends on coordination but rarely speaks with one voice. The discussion also looks at how policy travels from Ottawa into the province, and where it begins to lose coherence on the ground.

At its core, this is a conversation about representation: what it means to advocate for a diverse sector, how alignment is built (or strained), and what it takes to hold agriculture together as conditions keep shifting.

Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsh.

Welcome to the Future Herd.

Manitoba has a way of clarifying things, flat geography, open

exposure, long supply lines.

When something shifts, weather prices policy, it doesn't get absorbed quietly.

It shows up quickly and it shows up on the farm.

That's the context Colin Hornby is working in at Keystone Agricultural Producers.

Not an abstract AgriFood system, but a province where grain, livestock,

transport, and trade all intersect under conditions that don't leave much room for

air flood one year drought, the next rail bottlenecks, input costs that arrive from

somewhere else but land here at home.

What comes through in this conversation is how that environment shapes decision

making, not just at the farm level, but inside an organisation like cap

that has to represent producers who don't all want the same things but

are exposed to many of the same risks.

In this episode, we talk about how policy travels from Ottawa

into places like Manitoba and where and how it loses coherence.

Along the way, we get into the mechanics of risk management and what happens when

the program's meant to stabilise the system start lagging behind the conditions

they're meant to address, and we stay with a simple but difficult question.

What does it mean to advocate for a sector when the ground it stands on keeps moving?

This isn't a conversation about where agriculture is going.

It's about what it looks like in a place where the future has already

arrived, just not necessarily evenly.

Now, a quick note on the audio quality.

Colin only had one earbud in.

So as a consequence, uh, Hy Stereo is only one side of the

channel apologises for this.

But, you know, an agricultural podcast, sometimes it's the

knowledge that matters most.

Alright, let's listen.

Colin, welcome to The Future Herd.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Thanks Jesse.

Pleasure to be here.

Now, uh, the first question that I love to throw at

my guests, uh, really designed as a kind of curve ball to put you,

uh, on your back, feet, back, feet.

What does the future mean to you?

Colin Hornby (KAP): Opportunity.

The future's gonna be filled with issues and challenges like, uh,

like the current times are, but there's always a silver lining.

Um, I think, I think there's always opportunities.

We just need to find them and, uh, you?

know, also how do we make things better than they have been for us?

I'm a new-ish parent.

and I had our first child, uh, last summer, and that's been an adventure and

I think wanting to leave a world a better place than what I came into it for My.

and children, we'll see what happens.

But, um, I think that's ultimately a personal goal of mine and

I think that's something we can all do in our professional

lives to try and advance things.

I mean, agriculture, we're already seeing, people talking about drones.

We've been talking about them for years now, and it's, we're starting to see

finally some movement around regulations and what is that gonna look like.

So that is, the future is now, Right But it's, that's one of those

opportunities we can harness, uh, to see how we can make things better with it.

Right.

Right on.

And, and now that you bring up the subject, for sure, I want to talk

drones with you today only 'cause I have yet to have the opportunity in,

in the episodes we've done so far.

But the second question that's been on the front of my mind as I've been kind of

preparing, uh, for our chat and thinking about what I wanted to talk about is.

Is to talk about Manitoba.

And I say that in such a broad, sweeping way, but I kind of feel that

when you look at the Canadian AgriFood sector, Manitoba's the powerhouse,

that doesn't get the respect that it deserves because on the one hand

you got Alberta and Saskatchewan who love to like throw themselves around.

Tell everyone how great they are, which is legit and fair.

And then you got Ontario, which kind of thinks that it's the centre of the

universe and kind of acts that way.

And in the middle you got Manitoba, where I certainly know from my own experience,

there's some phenomenal innovation going on within the agricultural sector.

I use the word powerhouse, not lightly, because Manitoba really does globally

kind of swing above its weight class.

So am I right in thinking that you guys don't get the respect that you deserve?

And, and let's start our chat out by, by giving our audience a sense of, of

why Manitoba really is a player globally when it comes to the AgriFood sector

and in particular, AgriFood innovation.

Colin Hornby (KAP): I mean, I think, uh, I think depends who you talk to, right?

You're right.

Ontario thinks it's its own.

The centre of the world, the centre of Canada.

We're actually the centre of Canada.

Landmark, Manitoba is the centre of Canada.

Right.

I live near there.

So, um.

We're the second largest, uh, grower of potatoes in Canada.

People think about PEI, no shade at PEI, listeners, but

we're number two behind Alberta.

So I think that we do a very good job where we have Emily,

the enterprise machine, uh, Institute, learning Institute.

I'm gonna get that wrong, but Emily's Innovation Farms

site is housed in Manitoba.

That's a hub of innovation.

We have.

The Glen Lee research station hosts, the Bruce Campbell Farm

and Food Discovery Centre.

It's an opportunity where we have academia, we have industry, we have

government all working in one place to act as a centre for education.

We brought people from across Canada to the Farm and Food Discovery Centre

last summer, and people were blown away at this uh, functioning farm that

we use as an educational tool and.

You know, it is like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect, right?

Like sometimes we do feel that way, uh, in Manitoba.

So I think

we are a leader in that space.

We're we're getting more into, um, other types of agriculture.

We have a massive Vermilion growers in Dolphin has a new greenhouse in the north.

know, in the, in, uh, that region of the province.

So I think there's, uh,

I think

Colin Hornby (KAP): of things that we have to be proud of.

There's a lot of talk about Churchill.

What's the opportunity at the Port of Churchill?

So I think, uh,

yeah,

Colin Hornby (KAP): we

also.

Colin Hornby (KAP): in Manitoba when it comes to attracting labour.

It's an affordable province relative to others.

When we look at house prices relative to what you can make in the job.

I think that's something else.

We have the University of Manitoba, which is a great institution.

I'm an alumni, I'm biassed.

We have Red River College, uh, Polytech.

We have all these institutions.

We have so much to be proud of here.

We're the core of the grain trading, um, hub of Canada.

We have the grain exchange with the exchange area.

We have great restaurants.

Another thing.

So I think all that's to say manitoba's a great place.

I'm from here.

I've lived here except for a few years of my life.

So.

Manito.

Right on.

And, and I do want to talk about the Keystone agricultural producers

in, in the context that kind of manitoba's uh, uh, ongoing leadership,

ongoing, uh, vision for the future.

But I do wanna take a moment to talk about your kind of professional background.

'cause it's quite impressive.

A and I say this, you know, not just because you, you have all the key

ingredients of providing the kind of experience for a leader to have.

But because you've been engaged in the policy world, in the political world,

and one of the through lines of our podcast is we want more people to do that.

We want more people to see policy as a fun, cool place to really have

an impact and to not treat politics like a dirty word, but to your

point, like an opportunity, right?

Because it really is kind of what you make of it.

So gimme a bit of your lore, gimme a bit of your backstory.

'cause you know, certainly what I was scoping you.

And looking on your LinkedIn, I was like, I'm really excited to talk to this guy.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah.

No, I appreciate that.

And I mean, something I've always been, I mean, I've always been

attracted to politics my whole life.

I go back to being, gosh, I don't know what year it would've been like I was

thinking about this leading up to our conversation, my first distinct memory of.

Politics was when John Kerry ran against George Bush.

That is the first time I started to kind of click into like

politics as a thing in my head.

I remember Barack Obama getting elected.

I remember Stephen Harper getting like the majority, all these

different things that have happened.

Right?

So for me, I mean, going through high school, I kind of always had that

little itch getting into university.

I never really thought there was a way to to, to monetize that.

Interest.

yeah, I went to U of M, university of Manitoba.

I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

I wanted to be a sports agent.

I wanted be a lawyer, and I wanted to be a teacher.

You know, I couldn't really

I

Colin Hornby (KAP): it out.

I went and I got, uh, I took a year or two.

I went to Red River College at the time to my human resource

management, uh, training.

Worked in HR for about six years for an hr, uh, consultant,

HR firm, and got involved,

got involved.

Uh.

Colin Hornby (KAP): for the.

Progressive conservative party and the federal conservative party of Canada.

So I did some stuff there.

I was able to get hired on a campaign for a federal campaign then, uh,

was, was working as well as an intern at the provincial party.

So that was sort of dipping my toe into it.

Some people took a chance on me and I was, I'm forever thankful to them.

Uh, from there I was able to get a job at the legislature working in

the, uh, government caucus, uh, caucus chair and government whips office.

So doing a lot of that sort of legislative stuff.

Then I

went over to Ottawa to work for a couple years for a member of Parliament

from Winnipeg, Marty Morantz, who is a good friend of mine still to this day.

And then went back to the Premier's office here in Manitoba and got to be

the manager of legislative affairs.

So that whole, I mean, being involved.

in politics is something that really gets me outta bed.

Um, something that was interesting, but, you know, I did wanna change in

my life after doing that for a few years, and I saw the job at CAP as

a and stakeholder relations manager.

I took that on, was able to do some government relations there, and.

Uh.

ultimately when my predecessor moved on to another job, I applied and

went through the process and was successful in, in this endeavour.

So this is where I sit today.

Right on.

And, and before we get to Cap, I wanted to unpack something you kind of glossed

over there that I think is important.

'cause another one of the pieces I keep looking for when I chat with people is

kind of w. What gave them the skills to be the leaders they are today?

And, and you kind of described it in terms of your political experience and your

legislative experience, but, but spell it out like what were the kind of skills

that you kind of got from that experience?

'cause I, I say this in the sense that it's remarkable how many leaders,

both in the sector but across Canada.

Had that kind of formative experience that started off as volunteering,

but then ended up in really interesting, unique opportunities

where I think you learn stuff.

You're not gonna learn at any school, university of Manitoba side.

Clearly that did have a positive impact on you, but gimme a sense of

what the things you learned in the political life that are, are, are

not really available anywhere else.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, other duties as assigned,

you know, everybody sees that on a job description and then you really

understand that when you do that job, it's, uh, all encompassing.

Uh, you really have to believe in the cause in order to be in those jobs, right?

Because at the end of the day, everybody in those types of roles is working

together towards one common goal.

And I think it really underscores that importance in a team setting.

I would say also, um, football, playing football, I played through,

uh, high school and coached afterwards.

I

I.

Colin Hornby (KAP): for eight years or so.

I lost track of it.

uh, coaching sports has delivered so many lessons to me.

I think understanding that servant leadership mindset, a, being as a

leader, your role is not to advance your own interests or to advance.

Anyone in particular, it's to support those around you because you want

to get people that are better than you at particular tasks and you

wanna support them to be successful.

'cause ultimately that's what's important.

Um, so, and, and something else.

in politics that too, I.

always have sort of been interested in is, is the idea that politics

is the art of the possible.

So

Focused.

I don't,

Colin Hornby (KAP): it's not a science.

Like yes, there's political scientists and they'll talk about things, but at

the end of the day, it's an art too.

It's how do we get things done?

Building coalitions.

In, in the, in the role I was in, in the legislature, I

I hate that.

Colin Hornby (KAP): uh, work with other parties to advance

priorities in the chamber.

So it was working with the opposition party to say, okay, you know, you

have to have a positive relationship with them and talk about what

you're doing and what they're doing.

What are your plans?

And sort of, okay, if we want to get this advance, we're on a time constraint.

What can we do for you?

Sort of that bargaining.

Um, so I think there's that collaborative part too where

yes, you don't agree with that.

person, but they're not your enemy.

They're there doing their job.

They believe in something, you believe in something, and it's just a matter of

how do we advance our respective agendas?

'cause everybody can win in a lot of these instances.

So, uh, those are some of the things I think that I would say I've, I've learned

from that as well as the coaching piece

Right on.

And, and that I think very much fits with the values of, of the agricultural sector,

of the AgriFood sector because I think there is a desire for, for, for everyone

to work together to find that kind of commonality that really empowers people.

And, and I will admit, one of the things that I love a, about this particular

gig of hosting this podcast is learning about organisations like CAP and learning

about the organisations that kind of support the sector across the country.

So, uh, again, for those of us in Ontario who have been burdened by our own

insularity, uh, uh, uh, help me understand cap, uh, both its kind of general

history, but also its current focus in terms of what your priorities are.

In terms of the role that the organisation plays in the sector.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, so CAP was, uh, founded in 1984, so we

celebrated 40 years recently.

we started off in sort of a different format.

It was a door to door selling memberships, but we became, uh, the certified

organisation for Manitoba farmers.

We're a general farm group.

focus is around ensuring a prosperous future for all Manitoba farmers.

So we, we are that general farm group policy organisation.

If you're in Ontario, think OFA, we're just like OFA in that regard.

So we're focused on policy.

How do we bring people together?

How do we find areas of alignment?

And, uh, figuring out what's good for the goose is good for the gander, kind

of, if you think about it that way.

Um, again,

Again,

Colin Hornby (KAP): that

that was

Colin Hornby (KAP): future for, for all farmers.

It's not

about.

Colin Hornby (KAP): just one type of a farmer or one crop or one

livestock, uh, type of livestock.

all farmers, and that's who we're here to serve.

We're directed by farmers.

Our board is farmers.

They're elected by their fellow farmers.

So that is sort of the structure.

We have 12 districts.

also have four other, um, commodity seats on our board.

So one is to represent.

Red meat groups.

One is for greensville season pulse groups.

Another is for specialty crops and another is for supply management.

So I mean, that's another component as being a general farm group.

You know, there is a lot of talk in the trade space right now around is Canada

going to bargain or put up when these negotiations, if that's what we come to.

is some sentiments around supply management.

Should it be on the table, should it not be on the table.

we

you've.

Colin Hornby (KAP): that are supply managed, so that is important to us.

We put forward a trade action plan to the province of Manitoba,

and one of the things in there is around respecting the diversity of

Manitoba's agricultural production, one of those being supply management.

So.

All that to

Hold on.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Um, we're looking at, at, at what are policy changes,

regulatory changes, things like that where we can help, uh, that

would be good for, for all farmers.

We see ourselves as well as, uh, we provide benefits as well to our,

to our members around discounts and insurance and all that type of stuff.

So we are structured in a way, a bit like a chamber of commerce.

So how do we provide that value?

What is the value proposition to our members?

And, uh, something else that's really important, uh, to me is not, yes,

it's important that we advocate for farmers, but we have to advocate for

the sector because if processors are going to succeed, yes, it can be at

the expense of farmers, but if they can both succeed, well, that's a win to us.

So we work with parts of the value.

We don't just talk to farmers.

So that's very important to us.

And we're also members of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, so that

is sort of our national voice.

So we do try to

Private case.

Colin Hornby (KAP): lane, but ultimately there are issues that do

enter our space that are federal.

So we do work across jurisdictions, municipal issues as well around like

bylaws, zoning, use, planning, et cetera.

So a lot of things, a lot of problems, a lot of issues, a lot of opportunities.

Alluding to what I said earlier, I think right now.

One of the big things is we're seeing how do we navigate this new federal

government with Prime Minister Kearney?

We have seen a, um, I would say an improvement from the previous

administration around, um, being receptive to feedback changes.

Uh, so that has been positive for us.

And of course, trade is top of mind.

That's all we talk about.

I'll be going to Washington next week.

As part of another conference, but extending that a bit to do

some, some discussions with, um, some American groups.

So, uh, very important to, to nurture that relationship with the US and Mexico.

We've been down to Mexico as well, so there's a lot going on.

Well, and, and I definitely want to kind of tap

your brain around the leadership challenges of having such a diverse.

Set of constituents, especially to your point about the supply management folks

versus potentially the grain folks and any differences they might have.

But to your point about, you know, thinking about trade and

thinking about federal policy, what would you identify as.

Like specific Manitoba issues compared to issues that might apply

to the sector as a whole or might apply to grain farmers as a whole?

Like, I, I, I'm, I, I'm assuming that there are elements specific either

to your industries or even to your geography that kinda give you a different

perspective when you're sitting at the table with the CFA or when you're

sitting in, in Washington kind of looking at the larger continental picture.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, I think for us, I mean one of the challenges

is our proximity to port, right?

We're in the centre.

I mean, the Port of Churchill is an interesting opportunity,

but it's not something that's gonna happen in the next year.

Um, and there's questions around, you know, how will that

impact agricultural exports?

Um, and whether or not it will be impactful enough.

So for us, it's obviously Vancouver Thunder Bay.

Um, those are kind of.

We're, we're at the mercy of those, so we gotta go a long way to get stuff.

So that, for us is more unique than, say, BC producers.

Um, looking at it from a, at a provincial jurisdictional level, we

have unique tax challenges in Manitoba that other provinces don't have.

So we have a decentralised, um, property tax structure where we have

locally elected authorities, school trustees that are setting the rate.

For taxation on property tax, uh, for farmland school tax.

So, um, there has been, over the last few years, the previous

government brought in, uh, to reduce that every year over 10 years.

So we're kind of stuck at 50% and it's stayed there.

So there is a 50% reduction that people do get back as a credit.

But, uh, something that that we do have is the model we have.

And again, something CAP is one of the founding issues I think.

Going back into the eighties was this structure and the disproportionate impact

that we see farmland, uh, paying farmers, paying on, on tax relative to urban

users or urban, uh, rate payers rather.

So, uh, I would say that's a uniquely Manitoba issue.

We do have some challenges.

Were very flat, with water, water management, there are

some, some different rules.

Uh, drainage is a, is a topic that came up at our last annual

meeting from our members.

In a

Right,

Colin Hornby (KAP): uh,

right.

Colin Hornby (KAP): areas in the province.

So something we're sort of, uh, working through now with

producers and municipalities in the province and other stakeholders.

Um, so I think those are some of the, uh, I would say issues, uh,

in the potato sector as well.

I mean, I think it's 97% of our, um, processed potatoes go to the

us So the importance of, uh, open trade with the US through Kuzma.

one that's very, very top of mind for us in the potato sector as well

Well, that's hard.

Colin Hornby (KAP): footprint in the pork sector.

So we ship a lot of live weanlings into the us.

We have agreements going into Iowa and Minnesota and other places like that.

So, uh, country of origin labelling in the US and Proposition 12 outta California.

These are issues that very strongly impact us as a pork producing province.

So, um, I think those would be some of the, maybe.

Things that are at the top, top of our mind when we talk about

sort of things that maybe we're a little, we care significantly about.

Well, and, and when you mentioned the kind of access to ports

immediately, uh, I thought of highways into the US that, that, that is a

kind of transportation infrastructure that, uh, I'm assuming to your point,

that Manitoba's benefited from, you know, the country of origin stuff

does seem to be a particularly, uh, uh, important issue, a variable.

Given how it doesn't, it doesn't really, it's, I, I, I'm getting all sorts of

signals how that's gonna play out.

I, I'd love for you to elaborate on that and highlight some of the other things

that you, you're gonna be focusing on when you head south, you know, both in terms

of kind of building natural alliances.

We do have lots of friends in the US AgriFood sector who work

with us, who depend upon us.

So I, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, on how you're reaching out to them.

But to your point, what are the priorities And, and I'd love

for you to start by elaborating on the country of origin stuff.

'cause I think for those paying attention, they understand how important it is.

But it seems one of those things that could be lost on members of the sector,

let alone the general public who aren't following this particular important issue.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, so I think if you talk about V Cool, we call it

voluntary country of origin labelling, which is a, a policy brought in by

USDA, um, basically says if you wanna be labelled as a product of USA, you have to

comply with certain requirements around.

The animal has to go from birth all the way through to packaging in America.

So given the integration of the supply chain with Canada and the US and pork,

this is the example we always give.

And I wanna give a shout out to Cam DOL for Manitoba Pork, who has been a

leader in this as well as the Prop 12.

And we're very, uh, lucky in Manitoba to have Cam working on the pork file.

He's been phenomenal with his team at Manitoba pork.

Um, Right now products can say product of USA or not now because as of January

this came into place, but prior to the VCO rules, it could say product of USA,

even if it was originated from Manitoba and the rest of the steps were in the us.

So the concern is that even though it's voluntary, um, if you have large,

big box stores, supermarkets who say, you know what, no, we want to comply.

We're only gonna buy pork that meets this requirement.

That's a problem because the producers in the us, the pork

producers rely on Manitoba.

And another thing is our genetics are, are globally known that Manitoba

has the best swine genetics, or some of the best, I'm gonna say the best,

the best swine genetics in the world.

In particular in markets like in Japan, where they look out for or they, they

seek out our Um, the American pork producers do not like this policy.

we have, as to your point, we have friends in America, uh, who are supportive.

We, so, so the v cool issue is one that for sure that that's kind of the

impact is if these American producers can no longer purchase their weanlings

from Canada, there's nowhere else for them to get them at this point.

So it would cause a huge problem.

So this is something that they know in the us the Americans know, um, and I think

it's a matter of working through these issues and, uh, I'm hopeful that there'll

be a resolution, but I'm not sure.

So that's one of the big issues I think.

Um, we also try to maintain strong on, go

Just on that point, it correct me, me if I'm wrong, is, is

the larger American issue, not so much concern about Canadian, but rather

South American imports that it, it feels to me like we're kind of getting

caught in this larger policy sweep when the industry absolutely wants to

be working with us, but the fear is.

Cheap imports, not from Canada, but from elsewhere in the world.

A am I reading that correctly?

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, I would say that's a fair, uh,

that's a fair assessment.

Um, Canada's not really the big concern in our opinion.

Um, know, our quality's very high.

We work well with them.

They rely on us, as I mentioned earlier.

So I think, uh, yeah, I think that's right.

And it's another thing, it's this almost food nationalism idea where we're seeing

this, there's a strong, economic populist nationalist sort of sentiment in the us.

This has been coming, this has been happening for many years.

just didn't just sneak up on us.

Um, when President Trump was elected.

This has been ongoing.

So I think, uh, it's part of a broader sort of national mentality around,

look, if we think about it as a Canadian too, how many Canadians do

you talk to who say, well, I wanna buy

Byproduct.

Colin Hornby (KAP): I want something that says product of Canada.

And that's as far as a lot of consumers are thinking as well, I

wanna support local farmers in Canada.

I would rather my money stay here.

And I mean, sure, that's a good sentiment.

I understand it.

But, uh, the

the integration

Colin Hornby (KAP): of our countries.

You know, I

pretty,

Colin Hornby (KAP): would, would prefer to support a Canadian farmer.

Right.

But if I know, I mean, 'cause I understand a bit more around the supply chain

and how these things get to the shelf.

know

I know there's a.

Colin Hornby (KAP): support and Canadian inputs into the

whole product in many instances.

So, yeah, I think you're right.

Sorry, you were gonna talk about some of the other stuff you were

gonna focus on, uh, communicating and, and conveying when you were in the states.

Colin Hornby (KAP): So, so the, the interesting thing is, is understanding.

So we, uh, have been supporters of the, it's an organisation called sorl.

It's the State AG Rural Leaders.

Uh, it's an organisation based out of the us but they have

American and Canadian legislators.

And every year.

There's something called the Ag Chair Summit and it rotates different spots.

So we sponsor that event and we were down in Des Moines two years

ago and then, or last year I guess, and this year we were in um, uh,

new Orleans and it's an opportunity to talk with American legislators.

We sent a Canadian delegation, um.

It's, it's a great place to have that discussion and, and the more

we talk, we look at the agenda and they have what's called speed dating.

the speed dating sessions are, let's talk about land use policy

taxation policy and urban sprawl and all these different things.

you sit down with somebody from Kansas and I'm from Manitoba,

which, you know, sometimes people aren't sure where that is.

And it's like, oh yeah, we have the same problem.

Like I think it's getting across like, you know, we have the same problems.

I think also this is feedback we've heard from who are trade professionals.

We've heard this from Ambassador Hetra feed extra as well, that

shouldn't be going to the US and saying, why are you being mean to us?

You're hurting our feelings.

Well that doesn't, doesn't sell in America.

It's.

We're here to

Here.

Colin Hornby (KAP): why Canada is a great trade partner for America,

and what can we give to you?

How can you benefit from us?

is what we need to be doing.

I think we also need to make sure that we're coordinating as a sector and across

industries too, to say what are those key messages that we're talking about?

And I mean, we're trying to do this also in an environment of the midterms.

So it's really hard because they're congressmen and women.

Senators are focused on one thing, two things, getting elect reelected and

raising money, and those go hand in hand.

So think, um, we also need to be mindful of that.

So right

Right now.

Colin Hornby (KAP): not about specific issues, it's maybe more

about relationships, commonality, expanding our networks.

but yeah, those pinch points in Uzma, I think we've called for a renewal of

the agreement along with a hundred.

I think there was a hundred or so of US groups in Canada, there was 116 groups

in the US farm groups have all talked about, let's renew the agreement, let's

move forward, let's deal with some of the more, you know, the regulatory

challenges through things like the Regulatory Cooperation Council, which

is intended to deal with those things.

Um, and through other dialogue, one-off agreements, whatever it may be.

So I think, you know, we can say yes.

Um, you know, Kuzma has been successful.

This administration has negotiated a good deal.

Uzma has been successful

Seven.

One second.

Colin Hornby (KAP): like NAFTA was.

We dealt with some of the challenges.

Let's renew it.

Let's move forward, let's continue to be trading partners.

And, uh, that's kind of the, the, the focus.

Right on.

And I mean, you, you said something earlier that I want to come back to

and, and this is to give you a heads up.

I, I, I do want to talk about kind of the regulatory environment

and regulatory obstacles.

But there is this kind of holy grail within the agricultural sector of

getting everyone on the same page, uh, of kind of getting everyone speaking

with a kind of unity and focus.

And you've been evoking that, uh, uh, throughout our conversation today.

And, and I'm curious how.

Cap with the diverse, uh, sub-sector organisations, the diverse farmers,

and uh, o other organisations who are part of your network, part of your

ecosystem, how do you accomplish that?

Like, what's your strategy?

Either in getting everyone to focus on a key priority or a key initiative

so you have that kind of clarity.

Or conversely, managing differences and making sure that people do have

a sense that they're in it together.

'cause again, it, I kind of sense you're taking that for granted, and maybe

it's because it's something that you do so regularly, you just kind of assume

that it's part of your repertoire.

But I think it is a difficult challenge for a lot of sectoral leaders,

especially in this moment of uncertainty where, whether it's the regulatory

environment, whether it's the trade environment, it just feels like

anything could change at any moment.

And getting people to focus on the same thing, to be on the same team,

uh, it can be kind of challenging.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, that's an understatement.

Like that's, that's the challenge we deal with every day, I think, is finding those.

What are the things like, 'cause we're not going to deal, like, we're

not gonna find a position on every issue that everybody agrees with.

It's just not, it'd be a fool to say that.

So I think, I think a big part of it is being accessible to our members,

being accessible to different groups, constantly looking for coalitions,

not just within agriculture, but outside of agriculture too.

We've worked with the oil and gas sector on different issues.

To advance common interests.

Um, you know, there's forestry, there's other sectors that

deal with similar problems.

Regulatory burden, for example, is something that every industry deals

with, So how do we, how do we learn from each other for how in our respective

sectors we're able to get that sort of regulatory reform or improvements?

Um, but I think it comes down to listening.

You need to listen to people to understand where they're coming from.

And I think if you do that, they're more willing to listen to you.

And you know, some people, let's say there's an issue that somebody's

hot under the collar about and they're coming at you, right?

And they say, ah, like I'm angry about something.

And as you just let them talk, listen.

It can be disarming, you know?

And then it's like, okay, and you understand that person or that sector.

And I think it's, you know, we're looking to achieve the same thing.

Our vision, our mission, a prosperous future for all Manitoba

farmers who can disagree with that.

So how do you fit into that as a group, as a sector?

And yes, we're not always gonna agree, and we need to be understanding of that,

and we need to recognise and accept that.

But what are the things that we can advance together?

If you and I are at diametric ends of the spectrum on an issue, um,

think the sky's red and I think the sky's blue, well kind of a hard

thing to, to find a middle point.

how do we, how do we find another issue where we can work together

on, so there are those things.

There's tax policy, there's different regulatory po um, policy issues.

Everybody thinks there should be

There should be a.

Colin Hornby (KAP): risk management programmes.

Well, okay, what are those improvements?

Let's talk about that.

How's your sector affected?

And maybe it's the same if you're in beef or you're in pork.

Maybe you're affected the same way as a potato grower is, or a wheat,

somebody who's, you know, got wheats and barley and everything else.

So it's just, what are those commonalities?

And it takes time and it takes effort, and it takes listening,

and it's not always fun.

But that's what we do and that's what we're very passionate about doing.

Um, that is, that is the life of a general pharma organisation,

Right on.

Colin Hornby (KAP): and we need to meet people where they are.

That's the other thing,

And, and that's a great answer because it, it, on the one hand

speaks to the necessary humility, right?

Like on the one hand, you, you, you, you have to know what is the art of

the possible, uh, as you said earlier.

But on the other hand, it is, I, I think about.

Allocating attention that you find the things where people can come together.

Now, so far in our conversation, for kind of my own selfish purposes, I've

been getting you to focus on Manitoba so that I could, you know, get the crash

course, uh, that I've clearly required.

But let's scale this up, you know, federally, uh, across the country.

What do you think are some of the low hanging fruit?

When it comes to issues that, that, that people can really come together

on, that, that are the types of things where the sector, you know, uh, perhaps

can command, uh, the attention of the federal government, which I will be the

first to say, like Manitoba does not always get the respect that it deserves.

Or similarly, what are the kind of initiatives, what are the kind

of rallying points, you know, that given the opportunity you think

on a national level, the various.

Elements of the sector should be prioritising and focusing on.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Well, I think elevating agriculture as a core

industry of Canada is important.

not something that we've seen federal governments always talk about.

So it's been, you know, we met with Senator Rob Black, uh, some time ago.

This was the last month maybe.

We've met with him a few times and about how when he first got elected

to the Senate, agriculture was mentioned maybe once or twice, and

now it's mentioned all the time.

So he has seen that in his period there.

Um, and I, it's, it's good to see there can always be more.

Um, so how do we elevate.

For us, obviously our context is prairie agriculture, right?

So those types of crops, canola, et cetera.

Um, so Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba.

We haven't held significant political clout in government for the last 10 years.

just the way it's been.

The government has not had any representation from those provinces.

Mostly Manitoba has been sort of the outlier.

We actually are unique in the prairies where we have.

Quite a, we've historically had some of every party, so that's something for

us that's important and I think it's something that we can all agree on.

When Mark Carney became the Prime Minister, uh, agricultural groups,

all co-signed a letter outlining our priorities and say, Hey,

we're agriculture, we're here.

AgriFood processing, biggest processing, or AgriFood Manufacturing is the

biggest manufacturing sector in Canada.

I'm sure you've heard that before.

So that's something we need to talk about and we need to say we're driving

economic growth in this country.

There's a focus on economic growth.

There's a focus on competitiveness.

There's a focus on national security while food security is national security, right?

So these are things that agriculture can, can play a huge role in.

We also can help solve any challenges when we're looking, say, in northern

communities, if there's food security challenges, agriculture has the answer.

If there's a problem, we tend to have the answer, and if we don't, we'll find it.

So those are things for sure.

I think we've seen a, uh, promising, um, refreshing change in approach

to how we're dealing with solving problems and listening to industry.

So we've seen a, uh, government now federally that is trying to be

more collaborative with industry.

We're looking at a focus on the economic components of the business

understanding that that's what's important at this critical time where we're

seeing a lot of challenges globally.

So, um, I think, uh, you

You know.

Colin Hornby (KAP): about regulatory reform earlier.

We're seeing the PMRA, which is now the PRD, so it's becoming a directorate.

Um, they're putting out their regulations on drones, and that's

gonna be putting us at an equal footing, hopefully to the us Right.

We've been saying for some time now that other countries have access to

products and technologies that we don't.

Why is that?

There was legislation put forward by Cody Boyce, uh, a few years ago, uh,

that that would have allowed for a regulatory or, uh, approval in Canada

if a product was approved, a chemical product or, uh, was approved in another

trusted jurisdiction within a certain 30 days or 60 days or whatever it is.

So things like that where, why is the EPAs data as good as Canada's?

Right.

So things like that where we're able to say, have government move

at the speed of business, probably heard that adage from groups before.

So that's good.

Those are good things.

This focus on the economy and the issues that matter to people in

everyday lives, in their everyday lives and their businesses.

Um, something else I think is farm transitions.

How do we get young producers into farm, into agriculture?

Or how do we support them through the transition?

Say, you know, the typical, the typical, um, sort of storyline

is somebody who's a farmer.

Their, their father or their mother, or both of their parents were the farmers

and they've passed on the farm to them.

Some of these farms are supporting 3, 4, 5 different families.

Uh, you know, making sure that their, their structure reflects that, making

sure that they're able to pass it down.

looking at instances now where it's going.

It's not just the children because sometimes the children don't want to go

into farming or there is no children, but there's a cousin or whatever.

So making sure that the rules around taxation and succession match that.

Um, people who don't work in agriculture people who don't come from agriculture

like myself, who four years ago couldn't tell you what a grain jar was.

Um.

Or five years.

I don't wanna say that if I'd already started here, but, um, how do we get

more people who are not agriculture Aggies to come into Ag and to work in ag?

Because we're also moving into a time where we're gonna see different sets

of skills and making sure that groups like the Canadian Ag, human Resource

Council does a lot of work on what are those skills that are needed?

What are those jobs that are needed?

Uh, how do we, how do we have those supporting industries or supporting, uh,

jobs in agriculture, not just on farm.

What is the future?

To your early question, your first question, because it sounds like you're

interested in the future, maybe you're a futurist, but, um, think how do we enable

the sector for success by attracting people and students into the sector?

This is something that we're doing in Manitoba.

We've got funding to set up a portal to attract people to agriculture.

You know, I like to talk about making agriculture sexy, like

let's get people into it.

How do we do that?

So that's another thing.

I mean, you're, you're, you're preaching to a true believer

over here and that I, I think that there are a, a bunch of nerds, uh, a a

a bunch of really curious, imaginative people stuck in cities who would

love, uh, to be spending their days.

Uh, playing with robots on the farm, uh, uh, let alone, uh, using the heavy

machinery and getting their hands dirty.

So I, I, I, again, I, I think there is tremendous potential in, in finding

ways to get new blood in, but to your point, also facilitating transitions,

uh, within families in, in a much.

Easier, uh, less stressful manner.

But I do wanna dig a little deeper into the drone stuff though,

only because I am personally, uh, a big, uh, drone proponent.

Uh, I, I, I have a drone.

I've actually started researching, building my own custom drone.

So let's talk a little about the regulatory environment.

'cause you raised some issues that were new to me.

Uh, I was kind of anticipating you getting into some of the,

the pilot's licence stuff.

Like, I personally think that farmers should have an exemption to flying

drones on their farms, uh, without necessarily having to go through the

pilot's licence and all that stuff.

Again, possibly uninformed opinion on my part.

Uh, but let, I, I wanna dig deeper into kind of the regulatory stuff, but

let's stick to drones as an example.

I'd love for you to unpack that a little more, and let's do

it in a forward looking way.

What would the ideal regulatory environment that that encourages,

uh, drone adoption and drone experimentation in the agricultural

sector, what would that look like?

Colin Hornby (KAP): So I think we need to make it, we need to make it, uh, I

mean, I don't think you need to make it easy because, because it is enticing

because you, you know, you look at what it costs to say buy three or four drones.

You set up your sort of, uh, drone carrier.

We saw them at Ag days this past year.

It's like an aircraft carrier.

Well it is an aircraft carrier and they just go, one goes and comes back and

charges and the other goes and all that

All that.

Colin Hornby (KAP): I do think though, um, we can't exempt fully, we need to

make sure that we do have some sort of rules in place around, you know, making

sure there's some basics understood about safety, about, you know, 'cause ultimately

that's another thing, you're still, you're gonna have an item, an object

that flies, that is spraying chemicals.

So I

I think.

Colin Hornby (KAP): we want the public, we talk a lot about public

trust in agriculture, right?

So if we wanna maintain that and we wanna make sure that people trust,

'cause people do trust farmers, generally speaking, shows that consistently.

How do we keep that?

We don't want to erode that, and we wanna make sure that people operating drones

and people in neighbouring areas do not.

You know, accidentally gets sprayed or something.

So I think the, in our view, we think that if a product is cleared

for aerial application, it's cleared for aerial application.

Right now, there is some debate around drift and things like that,

and I think that can get ironed out.

And companies that are the registrants of these products are not going like

a bear or Syngenta, BASF, whoever.

not going to wanna put a product as an aerial application if they don't

feel comfortable or confident that it could cause drift or damage or off

target damage or anything like that.

So those companies

S.

Colin Hornby (KAP): we don't want it used for that.

They're not gonna put it on the label that it's used for, a drone, whatever it is.

So I think the way we see it is that there should be some basics.

You know, you look at Manitoba, we have for the Class one training for driving

semis, we have what's called melt.

It's a mandatory entry level training programme.

So it's a bit of a compressed.

Makes it a little bit easier for producers get their Class One training.

So making it advantageous in that way I think would be something

that would be, would be helpful.

And again, that sort of, if it's aerial, it's aerial, let's go.

That's how it is in other places.

how we would like to see it.

And uh, we provided feedback to PMRA on their, on their, um, consultation.

And, uh, you know, we talked about, we think it should be.

We should be allowing aerial application for, for products with drones.

uh, just some other technical things about, you know, some

of the proposed things they had didn't necessarily make sense.

There was something about gloves and, you know, maybe that's not necessary

while you're operating a drone.

It's kind of hard to do so.

And, and I guess where my own naivety is such that I would imagine

that the, the applications themselves would be the area of regulation, but

that the drone itself, not so much.

And, and I say this partly because, and this may be a byproduct of my

advanced technological literacy.

I actually believe that the technology left to developers is gonna be far

more safe and secure than it would under any regulatory environment.

And like, for example, that's currently my attitude about ai, that I'm, I'm

really uncomfortable around kind of state-based efforts to make AI safe

when I kind of find the industry is gonna do a better job of that.

On their own due to their expertise.

I'm digressing, but to bring it back to this notion of regulation.

I kind of feel my own conflict that I used to be someone who is very pro-regulation,

the right regulation, right?

The belief that just like policy can be good or bad,

regulation can be good or bad.

And it really comes down to the, the, the, the configuration, the nuance of it.

But I am starting to come to this position as a farmer where I'm kind of

drinking the Kool-Aid and starting to get to the idea that, you know what,

maybe regulation is by default bad.

I'm saying this full transparency in the sense that this is my own foolishness.

So allow me to articulate a question to tap into your wisdom.

How do we walk that line as a sector where, on the one hand, a. I think there

is widespread, uh, regulatory fatigue that there are a lot of regulations

that the sector's really tired with.

But to your larger point, there is a notion of public trust that the,

the, the out people outside the sector do wanna see us embracing

certain rules and certain regulations.

So where is the line in the political climate we're in today

where there is, I think a lot of.

Sentiment amongst the sector that we should be leading and

we should have less restraints.

But at the same time, regulation plays an important role as a trust framework,

as a kind of bridge for fostering.

So I'm rambling again, Colin.

This is where I'm deferring to your leadership.

Where do you see this?

Where, where do you see that line, that tightrope, that as a

leader, you kind of gotta walk to get everyone on the same page?

Colin Hornby (KAP): So I would say, you know, generally speaking,

like over overregulation is bad, misguided regulation is bad.

And to say which is good and which is bad, I mean, that's for experts.

You talked about.

Industry experts.

So I think we need industry to lead.

What should be, what is, what makes sense.

And we need governments to listen.

So I think we need to, you know, I've always been a fan of two for one

regulatory, you know, or three for one.

You put in one, you gotta take two out It's a good sort of check for government

to make sure they're doing it smartly.

So I think, uh.

I, I think if I knew the answer to your question, I would probably be

a very rich man if I knew exactly what the, what the line was.

But from my standpoint, I think it's making sure that as it goes

back to when we talk about speaking with one voice, right, um, we

need to make sure that agriculture and the experts in the industry.

Are going to government with similar things so that they can hear, okay.

It's very clear to us that maybe we shouldn't do this with a regulation

and maybe we should do this.

Like there needs to

Need to.

Colin Hornby (KAP): position from the industry side we need to make

sure that the government knows why and have a good thought out case

they set a put a regulation in place.

And the thing with regulations is.

They do have a process that's a lot easier to make regulatory changes

than it's to make legislative changes.

Good luck.

Legislative changes are like, it's crazy.

We saw what happened with the carbon tax and C 2 34, which ultimately got removed,

but it was just, especially when you get into the federal space, it's like things

get to the Senate and change and go to committee and bounce back and forth.

You know, people find legislative loopholes for, for delaying and

delaying and delaying and delaying.

And so it, it's regulations are a good tool that can be used

to get things done quickly.

has to be done smartly.

So, I don't know if I answered your question.

I probably didn't.

I might have also gone on a bit of a soapbox, but, yeah, I think that's,

that's kind of my perspective.

I thought so.

Well, and, and you know, part of my job, uh, uh, in

throwing the questions I do on this podcast is to make them as

crazy and as difficult as possible.

And, and, and you have performed spectacularly.

So kudos to you, Colin, and on.

Fortunately, we're coming to the end and this is where I always have as

my second, last question, uh, a, a kind of open-ended, but in your case,

I'm gonna make it a kind of double ender in the sense that you can answer

both parts or one or dodge entirely.

And on the one hand the question is always, is there anything that we haven't

touched upon today, uh, that you really want to get into before we conclude?

But similarly, the question I'd like to ask to policy pros like yourself is, is

there a policy, is there a policy concept that you're currently really keen on

that you kind of wanna throw out there to get more people paying attention to?

Colin Hornby (KAP): Well, I think I, I think I liked a lot of the

direction we went on the questions.

I mean, talking about a lot of our priorities, obviously trade and

regulatory reform are two big ones.

Some of those Manitoba flavours too around taxation policy and stuff.

I mean, ultimate.

Ultimately, the way we see ourselves at Cap is it comes back to that

mission of a prosperous future for all Manitoba farmers, how

do we make their lives easier?

How do we make their business more prosperous, make their

business easier, their day-to-day?

What is causing them problems and how do we fix it?

And is there a commonality of if a farm here and a farm here and a farm

here starts to say the same thing?

Well, maybe this is.

A bigger issue than just one.

So that's something I think through our, uh, engagement.

I mean, engagement and outreach is one of our four core pillars As an organisation,

sure that we stay engaged and that we do that outreach with our members and other

stakeholders, that's critically important to informing the work that we do.

I don't go to a farm yard every day.

I don't get up at five in the morning to go do something in the field or make

sure the cows are getting milked or.

know, somebody's Calvin and two in the morning and they gotta get up

'cause that's what they gotta do.

That's what they gotta do.

I, you know, I could, I could never do that.

So thank, I'm thankful to farmers for everything they do to make sure that I

can eat and that people can eat and have food, fuel, fibre, and all the things

that we enjoy in this world and people take for granted, which I'll be honest,

before I worked in agriculture, I might have taken for granted a little bit.

And now that I understand a little more, I will go, okay, now I know

the importance of the industry.

So, um, in terms of a policy concept, um, I don't know, like, I think the idea of

sort of the regulatory sandbox approach where you kind of allow for different

experi experimentation, so to speak.

Um, I mean, we know that not gonna be naive.

I know some farmers do that anyway.

They're gonna experiment with things that maybe aren't within the rules fully.

We can't encourage that, of course, but having regulatory sandboxes is a good idea

to allow for creativity and innovation.

How do we enable innovation in Canada, in agriculture I think is important.

into such, you know, agriculture people.

There's this perception sometimes in the public around somebody with a red

barn and a pitchfork and a couple of chickens and pigs, and that's them.

No, these are multimillion dollar business.

who are operating multimillion dollar equipment and they have technologies and

they're, they're experts in the market and they're experts in agrology and agronomy,

and they, they understand how trade works and they understand how to fix everything.

And it's, it blows my mind.

I talk to farmers sometimes on our board.

I go, you're a CEO and you're fixing a tractor, and you're, and you're Andrew.

Andrew.

Like, you're doing all of these things.

To me, it's, it's, you know, some of the most entrepreneurial, solution

oriented people that I've ever met.

So how do we make their lives easier?

I think is smarter, more efficient policy governments.

Um, you know, my personal view, think that the government should be very limited

in how it involves itself in society.

It should be creating an environment for success.

people, for businesses, uh, for, you know, but still being able to

support people who need that help.

ultimately, I don't know if I answered your question again, but I tried and, uh,

I just wanna say thank you for having me on and I appreciate all the questions and

Well.

Colin Hornby (KAP): we can, uh, we can achieve that better future with

prosperity and making the world better than we, than we entered it.

And you did answer it quite spectacularly.

'cause I love the concept of the regulatory sandbox and you know,

I'm familiar with it in the startup space and in the technology space.

But to your point about agriculture, it's kind of already exists.

'cause you're right, there are a lot of farmers who are experimenting in ways

that might be like the technology sector.

Uh, outpacing the expected regulatory regime.

And I think we would empower these entrepreneurs.

We would empower these innovators if we were to be able to offer

that kind of regulatory sandbox, not just the regulatory sandbox.

To your point about taxation, you know, the, they provide the type of, uh, uh, tax

incentives that do exist in other areas around r and d, around technology that.

Kind of are in place in the agricultural sector, but not in

the way that it could be to your point about the regulatory sandbox.

So right on, uh, our last question to your point about gratitude, it's real

quick and brief and it's the shout outs, which you, to your credit, you

already have, give it a couple of shout outs throughout the episode today.

But again, the idea here is there are any leaders that you are paying

attention to that you think the rest of us should be paying attention to.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, certainly.

And I just wanna say we never even talked about a FC research cuts.

And uh, we made it an hour without saying that.

'cause you just said research and I thought, oh, we

didn't even talk about that.

But that can be a conversation for another day, and I think would be a

good one for you to have with somebody.

I would say leaders.

I mean, uh, my predecessor, who is also a friend of mine, Brenda Mahoney, who

is the manager of Government and public affairs for BASF, is somebody who's helped

mentor me, cam Dahl for Manitoba pork.

These are two people that I, I think are, are strong leaders.

Um, yeah, those would be the two that jump, jump, uh, jump out

to me for sure in agriculture.

Right on.

And, and to your point, we definitely have to have you back.

I mean, I structure these episodes at at an hour 'cause of my own

A DHD and the kind of assumption of the audience out there.

But we've got a kind of format where we've got a. Cooking in the kitchen,

which, you know, we're bringing people into the herd kind of one by one.

But then we're bringing panels together, uh, to get some of these

leaders kind of interacting and cross pollinating around issues.

And I agree.

The, uh, a FC research cuts are a huge issue and they're not one that's kind of.

Ended in the sense that they've created an opportunity to talk about what kind

of research we should be doing as a sector and how it supports rural economic

development and rural infrastructure.

So I'm really glad you got that in before the buzzer.

Uh, thanks again Colin, and uh, for sure.

We definitely have to get you back.

Colin Hornby (KAP): Thanks, Jesse.

Great to be here.

Manitoba doesn't resolve itself neatly and

neither does this conversation.

What Colin offers isn't a position so much as a vantage point.

From Keystone Agriculture producers, you can see how decisions made elsewhere,

federal policy, global markets input, pricing, arrive on the farm and get

translated into something workable or not.

You can also see where that translation starts to break down.

There's a tendency to look for alignment in agriculture, a

unified voice, a shared direction.

What comes through here is something more fragmented, and yet also more

real, different operations, different pressures, different timelines, held

together, not by agreement, but by exposure to the same conditions.

That leaves an open question.

However, if the system depends on organisations like CAP to hold those

differences together, what happens as the gap widens when volatility

isn't episodic but constant and when adaptation becomes less about

adjustment and more about endurance.

This conversation doesn't try to settle any of that.

It stays.

Instead with the work as it is representing, negotiating, stabilising,

while the ground keeps moving, that may be the clearest signal of where things stand.

Until next time, I think I'm Jesse Hirsch.