Pecker's journey through the wild world of art and fame takes center stage as we dive into this episode! From his humble beginnings in Baltimore to being thrust into the limelight, Pecker grapples with the clash between his artistic integrity and the demands of the pretentious art world. We share a few laughs as we reminisce about the quirks of childhood games and the hilarity of our own awkward experiences. Join us as we explore the film’s satirical take on fame, family, and the chaos that ensues when everyday life becomes art. Plus, we can’t resist diving into the unforgettable characters that make John Waters’ films such a treat—because who doesn’t love a dash of eccentricity mixed with heartfelt moments? Grab your popcorn and get ready for a fun ride through the 90s!

Takeaways:

• The podcast humorously highlights the absurdity of childhood games, comparing them to modern playsets that teach vocational skills, making us laugh at how far we've come since the days of Hungry Hungry Hippos and Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots.
• Pecker, the film discussed, cleverly critiques the art world, showcasing how fame can disrupt personal relationships, making us ponder whether artistic integrity is worth sacrificing for success.
• The dynamics of Pecker's character relationships reveal the challenge of balancing newfound fame with loyalty to his quirky Baltimore community, echoing the struggles many artists face in real life today.
• Listeners are reminded that even in the age of social media, the essence of art lies in genuine human connections, as Pecker ultimately chooses authenticity over commercial success.
• The film serves as a nostalgic reflection on the late 90s culture, evoking memories of simpler times and reminding us of how societal norms around art and fame have evolved since then.
• Through the lens of comedy, we explore deeper themes of identity and societal expectations, making this episode a fun yet thought-provoking conversation about the intersection of art and life.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Atari
• Google
• John Waters
• Edward Furlong
• Christina Ricci
• Bess Armstrong
• Mary Kay Place
• Mink Stole
• Louise Fletcher
• Billy Eichner
• Andrea Martin
• Patrick Dempsey

Oh, you know, I knew that they had a graduation party in here last eating a curry.

What is going on?

Hector left his bubble machine on from his cousin's graduation party. So I'm really just like the back room. I guess we're gonna have some cleanup to do. Hopefully.

I just think it's wonderful that 4 year old can finally graduate from high school.

Well, what they say about giving children those. Those playsets that teach vocations.

Atari. Unlike in our day where the. The games were like hungry hippos.

Oh, right.

And rock em sock em robots and perfection. Remember perfection?

I do. And speaking of cringy games, I had in the 90s.

Operation. Operation is not the same to become.

A doctor in the 90s, I had tuba ruba. Did you about that?

No.

It was a plastic tube that was sort of collapsible. So imagine accordions and you could link them together like Legos, basically.

Oh, wait. Okay.

You attached them to yourself with like wristbands and then you wrapped it around yourself and then you stuck a marble inside it. And it was sort of like the idea of playing hula hoop. You had to move your body around to get the marble from the one end to the other of the. The.

The tube. So it's kind of like a kid swallowing a quarter or dime or whatever.

Oh, I swear I've never seen this game before in my life.

Well, the only thing I can say about it was, at least in my childhood we didn't have harmful chemicals still in children's toys.

What are you saying? There were no harmful chemicals in the pogo stick. That wasn't dangerous at all for our generation. Or a Hulu hoop. There was no.

Or the lawn darts.

No, not. Not even. Not even a cornhole.

Oh, there's a chill.

I still giggle whenever. Because we're from Cal. From. From California. Right out here. Cornholing was not a game. Well, it was a game. It was a whole different kind of thing.

And then when the Midwest is all like, oh, let's play cornhole. You're like, so. Yeah.

Did you ever have that hot gym teacher who asked you to play cornhole?

Thankfully, no. I missed out on that generation of elites. I did have a kind of hot gym teacher. He was such a horrible person. I'm trying not to cuss on our show.

If I could, I would call him several mean names. That.

Yeah.

Mean genitalia. He was. He was not a nice guy. He just. Yeah. So.

Well, I had all sorts of body image issues as a youth, so gym class was not my favorite time of the school day. If I could have a favorite time of the school day because of gym class, it would have been because of my gym teacher. Because.

Well, let's just say he comes from Greek descent and has a classic example of it.

Oh, so he came from the land down under or above. As above. So below.

Speaking of below.

Oh, no.

Oh, Bladis. Oh, I suppose. I always get a little tipsy on that. No, it's not, Sherry. It could be the fact that you left the cap off the VHS cleaner, I guess.

Well, I don't smell any Aqua Net. There is a faint scent of secondhand.

Smoke, not to mention smog.

The lady that just came out of the dry cleaners, her clothes don't look too outdated. So I'm gonna say possibly we're in the 90s. Let's cross our fingers. Let's find out.

Technology leapt forward as Google was founded, quietly beginning a transformation of how the world accesses information. The year also brought the loss of beloved voices, including crooner Frank Sinatra and playwright Shel Silverstein.

Amid the turbulence, future stars were born, including Jaden Smith and Ella Fanning, heralding the arrival of a generation that would grow up in a rapidly changing digital world.

1998.

Huh? That sounds fun.

Well, I mean, something that I could remember a little bit more easily. That was when I became legal.

I remember it. I was working at my second newspaper and going to college.

Oh. So I. I should probably have had a lifeline to you, because you could have given me some tips about what to avoid back then.

I was just learning the ropes and. Well, probably the most exciting thing that was going on is the college that I attended had a bowling alley.

Wow. That's the modern world right there.

And they had a mini Pizza Hut.

Now. I would have liked that.

Yeah.

So speaking about going, what was in the headlines or on the charts there for a date night back there in 98, Matt, what were our choices for entertainment?

Our choices were a very thick paper. This must have been a Sunday edition all Right, Well, Saving Private Ryan starring Tom Hanks, Tom Sizemore and Edward Burns. Very interesting.

Didn't they also have Matt Damon? Didn't they also have Matt Nyman?

I don't think so. Although I did recently see the Martian with Matt Damon and he was pretty good at it. No, I don't. Saving Private Ryan, I don't, I don't remember.

I just know that Tom Hanks was in it.

I just know there are so many extra copies in our adult section.

That's Saving Ryan's Privates anyway. Armageddon, Bruce Willis, Ben Affleck, Liv Tyler. Yeah, I tried to stay away from those movies back then.

That was that Aerosmith guy's daughter that he didn't have anything to do with until she was an adult.

Well, I mean, that's probably the best thing if you have kids is to avoid them until us. You're an adult. That was the Gen X way. So. Oh, oh, there's something about Mary Cameron Diaz, Ben Stiller, Matt Dame Dylan, Matt.

Dill and not Damon.

Yes, that's right.

That's. That's when all straight men learned how to use hair product.

Oh, yes, that was, that was fun. Yeah. Oh, that was a fun movie. And then A Bug's Life, that was Dave Foley, back when people remembered who he was.

Right.

And. Oh, that, that we're not talking about him.

Yeah.

And then Julia Louise Dreyfus, of course.

Yes, that's Richard Dreyfuss's wife who is in everything.

I just watched Sheep Detectives, which she was in. Yeah, she was elite sheep.

Well, knowing what I do about her husband, that there must be plenty of interesting dinner conversations there because I can't imagine her sharing too many of the same opinions.

No, what's interesting is the two of them. Can you imagine the two of them just like butting heads? How did they ever get in a relationship? I don't know.

Oh, well, cocktail parties. They were popular, I guess.

Oh, and then the Water Boy with Adam Sandler, Kathy Bates, Henry Winkler. One of the few Adam Sandler movies I've watched, which I shouldn't say that because I think I've watched a lot of them right now.

I just do avoid them.

So, I mean, I will say one good thing about Adam Sandler is in the, in the.

Just the one.

Uhhuh.

Oh, well, one of the nice things I could say about Adam Sandler is he has continued the age old tradition in entertainment of looking out for your friends because many of the films that he's done, he, he's helped people that Maybe haven't been working recently and.

Well, maybe if they wanted to work recently, they didn't say such stupid things.

Oh, that's quite true.

Thinking about that one guy who's Rob something or other. Rob Schneider. Oh, yeah, well, that would put his foot in his mouth time after time after time. He's got athlete's mouth.

I mean, speaking of fetishes, that guy that was in Bug's life, he. He's right up there with Mr. Weinstein these days.

Oh, yeah, we don't want to even. That's why I said I didn't want to say exactly.

Say nothing as.

As the. As the Cybermen would say. Delete, delete, delete.

Well, I suppose we've gotten through that paper and you really should get a band aid for that paper cut there, Matt.

Yeah, well, I'm Gen Xer. I'll live.

Right, so looking at the top of the returns bin there, I kind of wonder what exactly it is we're gonna see here. I have a sneaky suspicion that since we're late to the party and it has been Pride Month, that might actually have something to do with it.

Let's let the voice in the box there tell us.

Today you're watching a quirky comedy from director John Waters about a young Baltimore photographer named Pecker, whose candid snapshots unexpectedly make him an art world sensation.

Oh, that's interesting. I have been to the Baltimores and Good Morning Baltimore. I'm sure that there's a fair amount of people that weren't aware of that.

Baltimore in the Marylands, it's practically the Sister City to D.C. is actually named after Baltimore in Mary Old Ireland. So Baltimore Ireland was the original and it's actually, it's a coastal town, so it's like a little fishing village.

Yeah, well, now it's a postal town, if you know what I mean.

John Waters, A. Well, I suppose we should get pretty Pride Month underway finally here. And those kids and their bo.

Their boombox there they are just cranking out the tunes.

From 80s thrills to silver screen dreams trapped in the past by a time machine. It's time to door for DJ&M to explore the lore. The past is present and you're gonna want more matinee minutia.

Well then, so here we are. It's practically, practically Independence Day and all the places are selling the fireworks.

I made the poor decision to go out and get groceries before the show today.

And, well, let's just say everybody's out, everyone and their uncle is out to, to get a little hooch and getting something together for the family picnic.

And did you, did you buy any of the 250 merch? The merch. Have you seen the merch? It's like Dollar store. I mean, I was like, it's 250. I mean, they're gonna have like.

Because like when they had the, the queen or the queen had like her 75th anniversary and stuff, they had like these, like, oh, look, it's China with the Queen's face on it. I'm like, okay, we're gonna have some really good stuff for like 250 years, right? Nope.

Like, well, here's, here's some glasses that have rainbows when you look through them for 97 cents.

Right, because that's the only way you're going to see diversity in these days.

Diversity. Maybe.

I don't know about you. I will be celebrating the 250th when it's the second anniversary of the 250th.

Right. Well, do you. Who's not celebrating the 250th?

A few people.

Anybody at the, Anybody that went to the state, the, the, the fair. The Washington, D.C. like, state fair type. The big thing that's there right now. Huh? There's no one there.

Oh.

Including most of the state exhibits, they all opted out.

Well, I mean, I guess that's what happens when you pee in the pool.

With your pecker.

Oh, hey, there's a good segue. So we are here to talk about a film in the late 90s from Mr. John Waters, famed director from the Baltimores, and of course, gay. Yes, and fabulous.

It was actually kind of exciting because for pride that year, not that we actually celebrated it out in the haystack, for pride that year, I said, mom, dad, I'm gay and I'm moving to Dallas, Texas with my older boyfriend. And guess what, you can't say anything about it because I bought the airline ticket with my own credit card. No, I didn't have a job.

It was a pre approved card that came in the mail.

Didn't we love those back when they always ended up being a bad Decision.

Right. I, I think I, I broke in my credit card with its first purchase by buying a book of stamps, if you can believe it.

So yeah, I'd been out for a decade before you were like, mom, dad, I'm going to Dallas and you can't stop me. I'm going to be like Debbie. I'm going to be Debbie to Stylus.

All right. I mean Dallas wasn't even on the air still when I got there. No, I actually, I think it had another season or two left in it.

Anyways, so speaking of stories which I just told you and set up in the Problem. So Ian Packer. And no, we're not being naughty and we're not being cute. Although I like to think I am sometimes.

Yeah, they actually explained that he got his name from like not from being finicky eater.

Yeah, he was a picky eater. So in Packer, it's about a cheerful young man living in Baltimore who loves taking photographs of the people and places around him.

He captures everyday moments without worrying about artistic rules or what others think. This is a generation before the pocket sized computers there.

So his life changes when a New York art dealer discovers his photos and declares him a rising star in the all in the art world. And suddenly, pecker, he's thrust into a world of galleries, critics and media attention. While the recognition brings excitement.

Oop, there's that word again. It also creates problems for his family, friends and girlfriend. Well, control your excitement. Who feel misunderstood and exploited by the attention.

Oh, if only we could all have such problems.

Must decide whether to embrace his newfound fame or stay loyal to the quirky community and authentic relationships that inspires photography in the first place. Well, I'll tell you, his first problem, or his first mistake is he tried to make himself famous in his hometown.

Not watching it, being like, okay, this sounds like it's gonna be. Because I figured it would be like one of those depressing small town. It actually wasn't that at all. It was really fun.

It was kind of small town boy if.

Oh yeah, no, it totally was. I'm like small town boy, repressed, like trying to be that whole, like I want to be a big spirit star someday.

And then they're like, yeah, no, but you're gonna work at the Piggly Wiggly forever. That type of thing. It wasn't like that. I also was kind of like, okay, did. Did the. The character of. What's her name, Lily? The.

The New York art dealer, she really want, like. Like his work and. Or want to make him a star? Or was she actually just, like, wanting to, like, have sex with him? Which I'm like, isn't he, like, 17?

Like, what is that about? And then. Because later she tries to. And he almost goes through with it. The. What was it? All the.

All the New York art scene people and then beyond loved his works. So, I mean, obviously there must have been, like, real talent there. Mm. I wanna say most of the photos were blurry.

I. I wanna say that Pecker is supposed to be sort of a modern. And I'm gonna make a reference that it's not the same.

Oh, no, you're not.

Same medium. Cause Andy Warhol.

Oh, God, you went there. Yeah.

Did painting, canvas and Packer is film. So they're. They're. They're not the same medium. The. The idea of somebody being a burgeoning or aspiring artist.

So, yeah, so, yeah, no, I. I mean, I think. I think that he. He. He did have the talent because obviously people responded to his work.

It was just the whole, like, after she did that, I'm like, whoa. What was her motivation for that?

Well, and the funny thing is, and we'll get into this a little bit more. Was that in true John Waters style, this was satire. This was mockery.

Because, right.

They.

They had him taking photographs of everyday, ordinary things that wouldn't normally be considered art because some of these people in the film were supposed to be somewhat simple, maybe. Yeah, it's like, oh, my God, that's groundbreaking. And he just took a picture of a stripper with her drawers off.

Right. Or. Or his sister eating sugar and falling apart over it. Oh, my God, that little sister. Okay, well, we'll have to talk about her at some point.

Oh, my God. That she stole the freaking show.

She sure did. So, Matt, we've got the setup and the problem. Now, if you were suddenly.

There's that word again, thrust into the spotlight because of a hobby or talent, how do you think you would handle the attention? Would you embrace the fame? Or would you prefer to keep your life private, like Pecker? So are you going to fall to the attention of your adoring fans?

Well, honestly, I think that at this age, I'd be better prepared to navigate that type of Attention and spot and spotlight than Pecker was. I mean, like I said, he was like 17. He didn't know what the heck he was doing. And especially coming from a small town of people.

So, I mean, I would, I would do my best to handle the attention.

I would still like to keep my private life private and my, my friends and family out of that, which he couldn't do because the whole subject, like, like his whole. Everything in his photography was his family and his friends and the people that were around him. So they were automatically dragged into it with him.

So that would, that made it harder to separate.

I mean, it's good. A good example of why some people choose stage names.

Yes.

How are you going to find me? Because back in 98, that family would have had a landline and if.

And you know, and most likely their address would be in a phone book.

And reality is people, and I'm speaking to you younger folks maybe who found us by accident and are listening. Back in 98 when people had landlines, you actually had to pay the phone company extra money if you did not want your name in the book.

Right. Like, oh, no, you have to pay us extra not to use the ink to print your name. Right. So yeah, that was always, that was always something.

And then you always looked in the phone book to see like if anybody had like, close to your name. No, that's why like podcast, early podcasters and stuff. And even some now mostly the early ones we chose. I say we, they.

They chose screen names or post names or nicknames and non de plumes.

Yes.

Like Pizza Babe and Ouija. Not, not idiots like me who's all like, hi, my name's Matt. They're like, oh, we know who you are. And it's like, yeah,.

We're delivering pizzas to you.

Right. Unlike, unlike Zillow. Right. Stuff like that. Yeah.

So Pecker's photographs celebrate ordinary people and everyday life. Aren't they one the same?

How would you feel if someone took candid photos of you and your friends and displayed them in a gallery without asking permission? Do you got naughty pictures out there? Would you be honored, embarrassed or upset? And why? I mean, there's reasons why we have wi fi passwords.

Yeah, well, I think it would. Okay, so if they were, if I were at. Okay, so if I'm out in public doing dumb things, somebody takes a picture of it and puts it in the gallery.

I mean, yeah, I might be a little like, well, that was rude. There probably wouldn't be much I could really say about it.

And There are specific rules about things that you can take pictures of and use in public. And as a journalist, former journalist, journalist, I don't know. I, I had to know all those rules.

So there's kind of sometimes things you can't do about it.

I, it, it would be probably a little of every, everything there, but especially if I were doing something stupid, it would be embarrassment because chances are it's not going to be.

I think that the, the thing that got me too is like all so many of the photos and stuff that he took led to like legal things like people getting arrested, businesses getting closed down, his family having to give their sister Ritalin and. Or is it, was it Aderal Lit?

Yeah, it was. I think it was Ritalin.

Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, oh no, you don't want to do that. And they're like, she has attention deficit disorder and we're going to put her on Ritalin.

I'm like, I'm a, I am a social worker and we're gonna put your daughter on a leash.

Right. And you don't. And they, you don't have any choice in the matter. But. So she likes a little sugar. She's never seen a vegetable before in real life.

I mean, Pride month. She had a little sugar in her tank.

Oh my gosh. That she's. Oh God, she was so funny.

Oh, yeah. So reversing the question on to me.

Yeah.

Fame. I would prefer to keep my life private.

Although I will say it was fun going to my only high school reunion that I went to because while I didn't have anything to really bring brag about, I was pretty proud that I wasn't one of the people there who was paying for child support or having previous marriages. Right.

Yeah. I may be gay. I got married, I stayed married and I, I'm a podcaster and I have kitty babies and I work in a video store, so.

And we got VCR us.

Right. I travel through time. Okay.

Don't, don't be jealous.

Yeah. Well, hey, let me tell you a little bit about the Director.

Oh, yeah, Mr. John Waters.

And is one of America's most distinctive filmmakers known as the Pope of Trash. Waters actually built a cult following with his irreverent, low budget films that celebrate outsiders, extensor characters and unconventional humor.

He gained fame directing movies such as Pink Flamingos, which was an eye opener for me when the first time I saw that. And then Hairspray, Crybaby and Becker. So a lifelong Baltimore resident, he often uses his hometown as a backdrop for his stories, which I love.

He was never married. Smart guy. And is openly gay. Yeah. Is openly gay. Oh my.

Beyond filmmaking is an author, actor and visual artist known for his trademark pencil thin mustache, sharp wit, and affectionate portrayals of Society's Misfits and Ms. Non Conformists.

And that's one of the things I love, is that he really, he doesn't shy away from the joke that's going to make you go, oh, and he's a great writer and he's, he captivates the odd, quirky personalities of, of performers and people so. Well, just so well. He makes you love the, the people that normally be like, oh, I'm crossing the street, I don't want to run into them in the movies.

You love them. Uh huh. Anyway, so.

So we don't normally, normally do it this way. I thought I would go ahead and go for the gold here. And since we were just talking about Mr. John Waters, I thought I'd pop the question. Matt.

No, I'm a married man and polygamy is not legal in my state, so don't worry. How many of John Waters films would you say you've seen?

Oh my gosh, I was not prepared for that. I would say probably, probably 70% of his films I've probably seen.

Yeah, well, I, I'm just the junior in this menswear department, so I would say probably at least five. So like maybe 25% of his movies. I want to say, I think that either Hairspray or Serial mom were the first of his movies that I call Caught.

And of course, we had a film the other year here that we discussed that was not a John Waters film. It was a divine movie in that western there. Oh, yes, yes, Lost in the Dust.

So I, I have a few John Waters films on my to watch list and I think that I definitely need to see Pink Flamingos and I definitely need to see Polyester.

I actually honestly think that one of my favorites is Dirty Shame, which had, and I keep forgetting her name, that British, British variety show hostess, Tracy Ullman. She's the, the gal that actually was responsible for the Simpsons getting their start because they began as a short on her show.

And at the end of her show everyone would always say, or she would always say, go home.

Yeah, Dirty Shame was a pretty fun movie of John Waters because it brought kink and what would you call controversial subjects to light because basically the whole.

Town got horny well, not to mention that it had Johnny Knoxville when he was pretty much at the height of his hotness. And that was the first movie that I remember where they were talking about, like, gay bears.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Chris Isaac was in it.

Oh, I remember Chris Isaac from one of his 90s music videos. And the only thing that you could remember from the video was that he was shirtless and there was possibly rain or sweat.

And it was artful because it was in black and white.

Yeah, he was. He was a nice looking guy.

So, okay, you just told us about the man behind the camera, and I am gonna tell you about the leading man, the young man in this film, Packer, because of course, it is a story of an aspiring artist. Artist, a photographer. And this is played by Edward Furlong. Quite the interesting name there. It almost sounds like an adult film star's name.

He was born in the summer of 77, so I'm just a hair's breadth older than he. I was born in Glendale, California. And he rose to fame at 13 when he was cast as John Connor in Terminator 2 Judgment Day.

So he was Linda Hamilton's boy. And that earned him both the Saturn and MTV Movie Awards.

That year, Furlong became one of the most recognizable young actors of the 90s, appearing in such films as American History X, I think is American History X, and Detroit Rock City. He was raised primarily by relatives and later his former tutor. Furlong experienced a challenging childhood.

That means he came from a troubled home and a highly publicized personal life. He has one son and has spoken openly about struggles that affected his career.

Despite setbacks, he continues to act and remains best known for his breakthrough role in the Terminator franchise. So he played the boy that the robot came to to.

Well, depending on how you looked at it or which installment you tuned in for, he was either there to make sure he was erased from history or he was protected because just like AI Skynet was coming.

So, Edward, I just finished watching that franchise, actually.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Like all of them and. Yeah, so. Oh, and I'm not watching this series, so. No. Anyway, so he's had how many acting projects?

Oh, well, he's had more acting projects than he's had years. He has had 72, including Terminator back in 91.

It was his breakthrough role and was considered one of the greatest science fiction actors in films ever made at the time. And then in 98, the same year as Packer, American History X.

And he co starred with Edward Norton in this powerful drama about racism, redemption in family of course, the film we're discussing today, Packer, he played the title. Rolling. It was John Waters film. It's his chance to work with a legend. And it was a quirky comedy about fame, art, and awesome authenticity.

Now, the year after, in 99, he was in Detroit Rock City.

It's a cult feel, a cult favorite comedy following four teenagers determined to see the band Kiss in concert because boys could wear makeup if they were in metal. And.

And then in 96, so before Pecker, he was in a film called before and after, he was a suspenseful drama featuring Edward Furlong alongside Meryl Streep and Liam Neeson.

Wow. Those are some powerful people to share the spotlight with. Yeah. Wow. Well, how many of his movies have you seen?

Well, see, I have this thing with people who are close to my own.

Age,.

And it's the opposite of what you would think. You see, back when Titanic was new, I wasn't interested in seeing it because of Leo DiCaprio, because I thought he was young enough to be a fetus.

And that's what I used to call him then. Now that I realize that he and I are basically the same age, it means something different.

I've probably only seen all of three of Edward Furlong's films, so I could probably do with some tutoring in that.

Well, I have to tell you that now that you're at a certain age, pretty much every actor in Hollywood's going to be younger than you. Sorry, just a little note. Well, I've seen about five, and my favorites are probably Terminator 2, which I thought was a really good movie.

Now that I've seen this, actually, I would have to add Pencil Hecker as one of my favorites of his, too.

Yeah.

And the others were fine. They were okay.

I mean, it was such. So early in his career. And we'll talk about that more in a bit here. I. I have sort of this arc that I have with following actors.

If I am introduced to them early in their career, their first roles are not necessarily my favorite, just simply because I am a strong believer that people who begin acting as children don't necessarily get to pick and choose their roles as much. So it just. It informs their direction in the future. It's not sort of the embodiment. It's like, okay, yeah, Christina Ricci played Wednesday Addams.

Is that the best thing, things she's ever done? Well, we'll get to that.

Yeah, pretty much so. Yeah.

Okay, we're getting into the middle of the story here. The meat and the sandwich, which is Kind of interesting if you think about it, because Pecker works in a sandwich shop.

That's true. He does work in a sandwich shop. And it's funny because his, his Mima sells sandwiches, homemade sandwiches on the side for like four bucks.

98 Neither, neither here nor there. So. Yeah, Sorry, was reading something else. Okay.

Anyway, the conflict begins when Pecker suddenly a sudden success in the whole New York art world scene creates tension between him and the people that he loves, which he knew was going to happen. Come on. Some of his pictures were like, okay, they're going to be mad about that.

His, his candid photos bring unwanted attention to his family, friends, and of course his girlfriend Shelly, who feels that their private lives are being dis. Exploited for her for artistic and commercial gain. Did she have her boobs anymore on display? I mean, those sweaters.

She's running a laundromat and looks like she's a playboy. I didn't even know Christine De had boobs. Okay. Seeing this movie. Anyway, I think they were full of grace.

As critics and gallery owners try to shape Pecker in a mar into a marketable celebrity, he becomes increasingly frustrated with like, the pretentiousness and the hypocrisy of the art establishment and how they just want to use him sometimes for sex. The rising action, however, follows Pecker as he, he struggles to balance fame and loyalty to his Baltimore roots.

Relationships become strained, trust is broken, and Pecker must decide whether success is worth sacrificing the authenticity and community that inspired his work in the first place. And that's a very sanitized version of that. I'm like going, girl, girl.

You went from working for like probably 250 an hour in a sandwich shop to making 70, like 75,000 rounded up dollars in like a day. So. Girl. Yeah, anyway, so hey, got a question for you over all that. Okay, so Pecker's photographs obviously make him famous.

They also create problems for the people closest to them. So how do you feel, how would you feel if like a friend or family member used your image or personal life in their art without asking first?

Well, I guess it would depend on what the art was. So if it was something very controversial, like, I don't know, a gallery exhibit of pornography, statue.

Yeah, I, I, I probably would be more upset about them doing it without my Permission versus them promoting whatever it is they're doing. Because if. If I consider to be artistic rather than trashy, I would be okay with it. It's my name. It's my image. So ask me first.

Interesting. Yeah, I. I don't know. To me, that is a little subjective. It would be nice to be asked first. Yeah, definitely.

Especially if it's something that could be construed in a semi. In a negative or. Semi negative way.

Oh, you mean taking out things out of context.

Yeah, exactly. Like, I wasn't doing anything with that ho. Honestly, I swear.

Right.

Anyway, that was for Patreon, anyways.

That's right. That's. I would. That Susie Q was. It sacrificed itself to my stomach.

It was the last one. It was special. Okay.

Right. You're so good.

So you had another question?

Yeah.

As Pecker becomes frustrated with the art world's expectations and do you sympathize more with his desire to remain authentic or with the critics and gallery owners who want him to capitalize. Want to capitalize on his success and why?

Oh, well, I think I sympathize with him more in terms of his art. He wants to stay unique and true to a vision. He wants to have. Have his name represent something worthy of his name. So, you know, just.

It goes along with any art form, really. I mean, if you're a musician, you might get recognized for some original piece of work that you've created.

Then after you've been recognized, you are just a household name.

So now the corporate bigwigs, they just want you to sell their floor cleaner or their sandwich bags, and it doesn't matter whether you agree it's a quality product. Now you're suddenly selling your sandwich maker in the middle of the night.

And that's kind of how it went for George Foreman versus what was his name? Hulk Hogan. It was. Hulk Hogan's name was actually almost the one selling those grills that we know by George Horan's name.

Well, thank goodness that that didn't happen, because we all know how that turned out.

Exactly.

So as. As an artist myself, I definitely understand the desire to remain authentic to what you're creating. And. And remaining authentic to that is what the.

The. The critics and the people that bought his art and everything responded to. They were looking for things that are authentic because they have been.

They're living in a world that isn't authentic. And that's.

I mean, obviously the gallery owners and the critics and everything, they do want to capitalize on a success because that's their business.

So I don't really feel sorry for them, obviously. I don't sympathize with them. I sympathize with maybe.

Oh, I. I could have sympathized with it up until the time that she tried to have sex with him and say, I just wanted an innocent boyfriend. I'm like, he's 17. Get off of it. Them. Like it was. Oh. And yeah, anyway. So obviously. And. And that is why I feel that his once.

Once he put that art out there and the people of Baltimore knew him and everything there. He couldn't go back to that. He couldn't capture that innocence from them again.

Yeah.

And that. So that's why I thought what happened, which hopefully the end we'll talk about here, was. Was so brilliant. So anyway.

Yeah, so. So some of his actions, some of his art that he captured, because it was all impressions of a moment, so it had to be sort of spontaneous.

Some of his photography drew attention to things and it caused problems. Like there was a strip. There was a strip club, and they had a sort of a backroom reputation with their clientele for going the full Monty.

And may maybe probably weren't allowed to do that in that time in that neighborhood, in that town. Yet Packer, he. He capitalized on the opportunity because he climbed down to the base and peeked in a window and got his full Monty shot.

Right. And not. And then his sister works at a gay bar where they had guys dancing on the table.

Which I love that whole thing because there was like no shame or anything about any of that. The gay parts in that. And I loved that about it. And they're like teabagging, which it wasn't really teabagging. It was their equivalent of it to. And.

And. And so he captured that, and that became a big part of it. And then. Then the. The law got involved. And like I said before, people got.

People got in trouble. Bars got shut down. People got arrested there. His sister had to go on Ritalin and become a little zombie who didn't want any coke.

So there were all these things that happened because once it was out there, people, it's like the law had nothing better to do. Get involved and do something. Oh, yeah.

I will say, I think that one of my favorite parts of the movie where when his actions got him into trouble because he started getting recognized because his friend, the, the awkward guy whose name was, I think Jimmy, he used to go to thrift stores, which was interesting because Pecker's mother worked at a thrift store. And in true John Waters fashion, she liked helping the homeless by giving them fashionable things on a budget.

Yeah.

And so one of the things that Packer and his friend Jimmy would do is they would go into stores. Now Packer would take pictures of his friend trying things on or whatnot. Apparently at the same time his friend had a little shoplifting problem.

And well, Jimmy got found out.

His name was Matt.

Oh, that's right. So his, his friend got found out. And do you remember what happened in that moment in the store when the lady recognized him?

I was actually going to bring that up then I tried to think better of it. She talked about it. So the, the woman behind the counter, who, great character actress, like, tells them to take their peckers out, basically.

Oh, she says, she says that even better though. I mean, here we're saying pecker is a substitute for penis because.

Right.

Because it's funny, she actually says the word units. Like she's in the military.

Yeah. So she gets them to take it out. Then she takes Pector's camera and takes a picture of them. And then.

And so the things that are going through my mind at that are number one, it's funny because she made it, she made like a comment about Pecker having a big, big pecker, which was very interesting. I'm like, you are taking picture of a minor of these two 17 year old boys in your shop.

And then after you do that, to persuade them not to shoplift in your store. You then give him the camera back. What was the purpose of that?

You're not even like, I'm keeping your camera and this photo on it and I'll turn it, I'll do something if you ever come back from the store again. I was expecting some sort of blackmail like that. I was like, nope. She just gives the camera back to him and says, remember that next time. What?

Oh, I learned my lesson. I'll behave.

I know. I was like that. What is going on? So, yeah, that's just weird.

And that same friend has to figure things out later on and well, he makes some decisions that influence his line of work. Let's just say, alrighty.

Well, I need a coke. Let's take a break.

Yeah. So we are at about the halfway mark on our show. We're going to take a brief break for some ads, some jingles.

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Everybody knows he's a shoplifter now. So what does he do for work?

We'll talk about that. So Matt, who shared the camera with Mr. Edward Furlong, who played his love interest.

Well, lots of fun people. When Lily wasn't trying to like stick her tongue down his throat. Christine Ricci was.

As an adult, she successfully transitioned into more mature roles in films like the Ice Storm, which I think you made me watch Sleepy Hollow and. And Monster. Anyway, she's been. She's also earned acclaim for television work including Yellow Jackets, which is quite recently, quite recent show.

And then she has one son and one daughter.

Known for her distinctive style and willingness to take unconventional roles, she remains a respected and versatile performer and with the career spanning more than three decades, and she's also been in the new. The Netflix series Wednesday. She was in that as well. Not as Wednesday.

Right. Well, because when you, when you got the. The headlines there that she was going to be in it, you're like, what's she gonna play?

What's she gonna play? And then you don't know what it is. And then you're like, that's Christina Ricci.

Yeah. So I. I have loved her. I have loved her. I think I loved her the most after.

And I think it was in Addams Family Values where they sent her to the summer camp where she had to play an Indian. And she basically. She basically is like, and now we're going to burn down the camp and say, yeah, that was like the most.

Priceless Thanksgiving revenge for the brown people.

Oh, well, yeah, if you want to call it that. Yeah. So she's had 95 acting credits, and of course, the top ones start with the Addams Family and Addams Family Values. That was in 91 and 93.

And as we mentioned, Sleepy Hollow and the Ice storm, which were 97 and 99.

She's also currently in Yellow Jackets and she plays a character called Misty Quigley and introduced a whole new generation of viewers basically to her. And she's earned, like a whole bunch of awards from it. Oh, yeah.

So out of all of those films, I have not seen as many. Of course, probably, as I said, I tend to prefer things from actors that begin as a child actor later in their career.

So, yes, she did a good job as her early roles as Wednesday Addams, but I think she accomplished more artistically as she grew up and matured.

It was a wonderful film because her character spent a lot of the movie sort of hiding away as. As a child with a secret, and she would wear these scarfs over her face, and she wasn't expected to ever find love.

And then she was also in a movie that was actually a remake of a Haley Mills movie done, I want to say, in the 60s. Haley Mills last Disney film was a film called that Darn Cat, where a cat was used as sort of a spy in an operation.

And Christina Ricci plays the character that was originated by Hayley Mills in the remake. So I think those are two of the more sort of standout roles for her because she wasn't a child and she got to pick the parts.

So basically, Wednesday Adams, Sleepy Hollow, the Ice Storm, Yellow Jackets, Wednesday Penelope, which is a good choice.

Uhhuh.

And you're going with that Darn Cat.

Oh, and what. The other thing that's important is the guy who played Patrick Stewart's The.

The young version of Patrick Stewart's Professors Cross, professor xavier. So James McAvoy was in Penelope with Christina Ricci as her love interest and Reese Witherspoon.

And yes, it was Catherine o' Hara that played her mother.

Oh, well, I have to say that I've seen about 15 of her films. Well, say, films and TV projects. And I originally kind of went with Addam's family films and the Wednesday TV show, because I do love those, that.

I think those are iconic for her, and she really plays them well. I would actually throw in Penelope. I thought that was a really good film. I'd say Sleepy Hollow had Johnny Depp in it, so we're moving on.

Yeah, actually, go ahead.

No, go ahead. You go ahead.

Oh, I was gonna say dovetailing in here. That Darn Cat. It has one of our supporting cast members that we're going to talk about in a minute here. Ms. Bass.

She's been in everything. I think that about every movie that's been out there in our lifetime, she's been in somehow.

I know she knows how to keep the lights on.

Yeah, her and Louise Fletcher, like, they just keep coming. Anyway, why don't you tell us about the climax of Edward Furlong's Pecker?

I mean, I suppose when there's a pecker involved, there's got to be climax,.

So.

Well, if you're doing it right, in the climax of pecker 98, pecker becomes fed up with the hypocrisy of the art world after Seeing how creative critics, gallery owners and collectors manipulate both artists and people featured in his photographs. But they say, be careful what you wish for.

And determined to take a stand, he publicly challenges the art establishment and refuses to let others define the value of his work.

The resolution sees Packer reconnect with his family, friends and girlfriend, Shelley, repairing the relationships that were damaged by his sudden fame. And rather than chasing celebrity status, he embraces the people and community that inspire his photography in the first place.

The film ends on an upbeat note, celebrating individuality, authenticity, and the idea that genuine human connections are more important than artistic prestige or commercial success. So famous people, they're. They're human beings too?

Sure, yeah, we'll go with that. Yeah.

So, Matt.

Yeah.

Pecker ultimately chooses authenticity and personal relationships over fame and artistic prestige. How did you feel about his decision? And would you have made the same choice if you were in his position?

Well, yeah, I guess so.

I mean, did you have an agent try to woo you for sex?

Yeah, I was like. And he went for it. That was weird. That felt uncharacteristic, actually, so. Of him. So I. At 17.

Because, I mean, that's the thing, is that he was so young. I can see why he wanted to protect the world where he came from. I think maybe with more.

As you got older, you might be a little bit more wanting to choose some fame and artistic prestige and finally get your recognition and everything. I thought that. I thought his choices were very authentic to the character. And I loved. Because, like I said now that his.

The people that were close to him and in the community and his family knew every time he had that camera out, what was that? He was going to take a picture that they changed.

Yeah.

As they were in front of the picture, they changed. So he couldn't have that raw authenticity that he had before that.

So I thought that the ending was perfect because he caught that raw not paying attention to things, to the camera, with the art scene people. And he captured them in their raw moments and put them up there.

And that maintained the same level of authenticity, I guess, for lack of a better word, for his work. And so I thought it was brilliant, actually. I thought it was a brilliant way of turning around. And yes, I guess there was supposed to be some.

Okay, you're looking at all these people from Baltimore that you're like going, oh, this is so blah, blah. And, oh, they're so funny little people. They're stupid people. And then. And then it's turned around on them.

And then they see them and they're like weird moments and stuff like that. I guess that's kind of like how you could take it on a base level, taking it from an artistic level.

I think that him being able to do that and capture that rawness of them was brilliant for the film anyway.

And would you have done the same thing?

Well, if I were his age, probably. If I were my age now, I'd probably be better equipped to handle doing both. Right.

Keeping it authentic at the same time, having a level of, of fame and prestige. Because like when he turned down the, the One Gallery, it turned out that it was actually a good thing. It got him more notoriety.

So that was really interesting. Normally you just go with it because that's like kind of one of the heights of like the Whitney. I mean, oh my gosh, that's, that's something.

So I, I think that.

What do you think?

Well, I think by virtue of its choices, it made for almost an unpredictable ending, which I appreciate as a moviegoer. I actually like it when things are not predictable and writers and directors and producers, they have to sell tickets.

You don't want to see characters basically make choices that would go against their character. So he was somebody who had a loving family. He wasn't somebody who came from a home with a single parent. So he multi generational even.

He had his grandmother living with him. So he had responsibility. He had responsibility to show that he was surrounded by people, people of good character.

So I, I think that he made good choices and I appreciated that it was sort of a surprise ending.

And in the same way that people who are musicians and actors, because speaking of a visual medium, these are representations of things that people may have abused better understanding of. As an actor, you don't want to be associated with playing one type of character all the time. That's what they call typecast.

And that's why you want to show versatility. You have the ability to play a villain or a hero. And in the same case, he wasn't going to be part of the corporate machine.

He wanted to still turn out things that were original. So he had to take a step back and say no to the Whitney as, as you were saying.

So I don't know, at that age I would have made the same decisions again. You have a tendency to be sort of carefree and irresponsible.

I mean there's, there's a lot of examples of even adults who are irresponsible when they decision making like that. I mean, so many people who win lotteries, for example, they end up being Bankrupt within a year because they bit off more than they could chew.

You bought this terrific house. Now you can't afford the property taxes. Sorry. So, yeah, Pecker took a step back and realized that you don't pee in the pool. You don't.

You don't eat where you take a dump, or vice versa. So he planned on staying in his hometown, apparently, and he had to learn to play nice.

Yeah. So I think he made the right decision. I think. I think it was very much true to his character as well. Mm. Yeah.

And so the film satirizes the art world and questions who gets to decide what qualifies as. As real art. Did Pecker's confrontation with the art establishment change the way you think about art critics and creative success? Why or why not?

No, it didn't change it at all. Because I've been around those people enough to know that, no, they live in. Especially the more successful that they are.

They live in their own sort of weird reality. So. So, no, it didn't change my opinion of them at all. I did, like, at the end, when the characters that.

When those characters from the art world were in Baltimore and were around different people, they kind of loosened up and they let more of their real selves show. That was a fun part of the film, being around those people in real life. They would never really have done that. They.

Yeah, I mean, I don't have a specific example. Just the attitude was when you took the fish out of water, it's like, oh, this is so nice. This is so fancy. It's like, really?

That's what everybody's got here, right?

Yeah. No, I remember one time going to Simden's birthday at one of the local galleries, and I forget, what was it? Was it a Picasso or. I don't know.

It's one of the. The really famous, more modern, like, ones that did, like, the skit. A lot of sketching and stuff like that.

And it was like an original sketch that they had done. And, I mean, and it was signed and everything, but it wasn't. They were dead, mind you. But. And we're like, here, have some port. Some.

So we're sipping ports from these little glasses, and we're. We're looking at the sign, and others are just going, oh, it's so. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, and look at the. And ooh.

And I'm like, going, how did I get here? I'm like, I was a homeless kid, and somehow I'm sitting here in this place with these people sipping port and looking at that.

I'M like, I, I, I don't know how this happened. So the main thing is, like, just don't buy into it. Don't become those people.

Just anyway, don't let, don't let the fame get to your head.

Yes, yes.

I think the closest I ever got to that as a kid was one of my classmates had parents who were business owners. And in this, and in this case, it wasn't anything fantastic to a kid. It was something pretty cool.

So my classmate's parents owned a campground, and so for that classmate's birthday, they had their birthday party at this campground. And one of the recreation buildings there had, like all these arcade games, so we got to play the games for free. And I'm like, this is cool.

Knowing friends who know people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely can be. Yeah.

All right, well, so we talked about the leading man and his love interest there and the man behind the camera, the legend of Baltimore, the. What did we call him? The Pope of, Of trash.

Yes.

So now we've got some other folks that shared the camera, and that includes one of the supporting actors, this Bess Armstrong Match. We just talked about her a little bit ago in Second Sight. Go ahead and give us a refresher.

She attended Brown University before pursuing a long and very successful acting career. Because we've talked about her like a hundred times during, especially this season in television and film.

She was, she's enjoyed a career spanning literally five decades in film, television, and theater. I mean, she's just had an amazing career. She's got about 80 acting careers credits.

I have seen all of Five. So probably fewer than you, I will say, of those five, because Bess Armstrong often portrays supporting cast members.

Right.

So not leads, of course. Some of my favorites that Bess Armstrong just so happened to be in included an 80s film with characters Carol Burnett and Alan Alda.

One of my favorites, the Four Seasons. Oh, my goodness, it was so good. And my first exposure to it was on an HBO free preview weekend. So that's a fond memory there.

And then another film that I thoroughly enjoyed with Bess Armstrong and Jackie Gleason in his last film role with young and upcoming Tom Hanks. They were in a film called Nothing in Common where the two aforementioned actors played father and son.

Yes, I actually saw that. Well, part of it in the theater because my friend and I, we were like 15, I think, when. No, we were.

Yeah, maybe 14 or 15 somewhere in there when that came out. We watched like half of it, hated it and left the theater. Keep in mind, it was not like a kid's show. I don't know why we ended up seeing that.

Probably because it had Tom Hanks in it. We thought it'd be fun.

Well, I come from that weird world where it's got a little bit of best of both worlds. Jackie Gleason was someone that was one of my dad's favorite actors.

And I really enjoyed Tom Hanks because not too long after, nothing in common, he was in a movie called Turner and Hooch. And he wore low ride.

Yeah.

And he wore low rise briefs. On screen.

Time. People forget that Tom Hanks was actually an attractive guy back. He's from Sacramento and he went to one of our local universities. So. Yeah, we.

I knew a number of my acting teachers that had worked with him.

And he has a son who's more than legal age who inherited some of those nice genes.

Yes, he's a very attractive man now. Anyway, I loved her from Pecker and the Nanny. Yes. She was in. She's only in like one episode. Her. The part that she played was just standout.

Absolutely standout. And of course, I do remember the Four Seasons and I don't remember specifically knowing who she was in it when I watched it. That was a good film.

So I'm sure she was brilliant. Yeah. The more that I realize parts that are her, the more that I'm enjoying her.

So somebody else who stole the show, the spotlight. What she was a child actress and she hid under the table at one point because she was doing things she wasn't supposed to do.

Somebody who played Pecker's little sister and who Was that actress Matt.

Oh, that would be Lauren Halsey, huh? Yeah. Who. Oh, my gosh.

She disappeared behind. She disappeared behind the camera eventually. Because she does production work nowadays.

Right. There were more cast members than that that we should talk about, unfortunately. That's the link that came through when we were talking about that.

Let me pull up the cast for us to talk about. Yeah, if it'll.

So if. For any of you who have not seen Pecker, this movie, like a lot of the. Well, basically every John Waters movie has many candid moments throughout it.

So you could actually walk in on somebody else watching a John Waters film, and then you could instantly regret that you haven't seen it from the beginning, because there are other moments like this. It's the. The sister, the little girl in this film.

She's just high energy and she's throwing fits in grocery stores when they get home from a shopping trip. She wants her cookies.

And at one point, because of her brother's exposure under the spotlight of becoming famous, it's learned that she is a possibly troubled girl. And so now officials want to take hold. The social workers decide, oh, no, no, we can't have this because this, your son, he's a.

He's a pillar of the community now that people know his name. And we can't stand for this sort of thing happening in one of our homes in the community.

Right. So, yeah, so then the. The nurse or the social worker shows up and they're like. They don't even give her a prescription.

They don't have her assessed by a doctor. They just show up and they just give her pills. Here's the bottle of Riddled. And I think. Wasn't that.

Wasn't that Bess Armstrong that played that doctor, too?

Actually, wasn't it Mary K. Was it Mary Kay Place?

I. I couldn't tell for sure. Some of the. I'll tell you, they did such good job with the. The makeup and the hair and everything else with making down, playing these people.

I didn't even realize that Martha Plimpton was the. Was playing his sister.

Oh, my goodness. I mean, okay, we're talking about the supporting cast now, so.

Yes, we are.

Surprise. Martha Plimpton, who some of you may not know from. From other things. Raising Hope on Fox, which starred Cloris Leachman as the grandmother.

Well, and not to mention, she was in the Goonies. That's where she got, like, her main claim to fame at first. She was. She was recently in the. Oh, gosh. A teenage. The. The comedy about the.

Coming out in like the 90s or something. She was a religious mom and her son. Her youngest. One of her youngest kids came out as gay. And. Yeah. Anyway, another. Brilliant, brilliant. She's.

She's awesome. I had no clue. I did not realize that that was her.

Yeah.

I was like, I know she's in this movie. I don't know which part she plays.

Oh, my God. And it was so fantastic. She works at the strip club.

Right. Like, okay, so when I was preparing this, I told you that I. I had asked Chatgpt the voices in your head. Yes. Basically to take the.

The characters in their parts and make me a quick list of them and then so that we could read that from. Go over our script while we're talking about these. And it was like, it. It was like. And Meemaw was played by Mary Kay Place.

And I'm like, wait a minute, that was not Mary Kay Place. Either that or she's really gone downhill.

Right.

Because she's still alive, I believe. Anyway, so, yeah, like Meemaw, played by Jean. Yeah. I mean, she's.

That's the other thing we should talk about. So we. We have some of the characters in the story who were worthy of their own movie. Like.

Yes.

Like little sister who was hopped up on sugar all the time. And then. And then we have the wholesome and conservative Catholic grandmother Meemaw, who sells her sandwiches on the street. Corn. Well, not corner.

She's got a. She's got a cart next to the street that she sells her sandwiches at.

So she's probably who Packer most looks up to to because he makes sandwiches at his first job there. What I think is his first job. She tries to draw attention to herself in other ways. And how did she do that, Matt?

Well, she. She had this Virgin Mary doll and I doll. It was like a tall, like two and a half foot doll or whatever.

And it was like a ventriloquist type thing in the back. And she would hold it and she'd say that it was a miracle and that it talked. And she's like, oh. And. And then she'd do this little voice for it.

It's like Grace Holy Mary. She's like, say stuff like that. And it was like the. The funniest freaking thing. And I. I just adored it.

And then of course, at the very end when after she's like, oh, it doesn't talk anymore and it doesn't do anything it started talking on its own. Own and saying Full of Grace. Oh, my God. And they're like, oh, it's a miracle.

And I'm like, okay, they're gonna show somebody's, like, behind it, doing it to try to restill her. And then, of course, the Catholics, like the. The Mother Mary sect of the Catholics come to, like, see her do the miracle.

And then they're like, you're just saying it. You're making their mouth move. Oh, my God. We're turning you into the church.

Funny thing about it is they were so professional about their. Their fanaticism that they had a name for their group. Like they were the. The ladies of the. What was it?

The.

The Sisters of the Lady Madonna or something like that.

Yeah, something. Something like that. Yeah.

And they came to Pecker's home on the claim that there was a miracle there. And Mima brings out the doll so she could present the miracle.

And then there, of course, there was the. The strip club where they had the. The women that would fully take off their clothes. And it was all about the.

The two jokes about that where they actually show Bush and that they were lesbians. And then the actresses that were playing these. The characters would, like, take off all their clothes, and they're like, you. You men are sick.

I only like women. I'm a lesbian. And I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. When they actually got fully naked, I was like, oh. Oh, wow. Yeah, he went for it.

Well, the funny thing was, is that they went for a certain type, too, these strippers. They were also, like, very outspoken. They were like, lady wrestlers.

Yes. And then at the end of the film, they show up as drag kings. They were like, it's a shame of.

The same ones are dressed with, like, fake beards and mustaches, and they're like, come on, honey. And they're, like, trying to make the New York people dance and stuff like that.

I. I think that one of my favorite moments in the movie was, as we were saying, Packer's friend Matt had a problem with shoplifting, so he had to give that up because he's been recognized. In the end of the film, Spoiler alert. Packer opens his own club because he was guilty of exposing Conk The. The club that did the Full Monty.

So it got shut down. And I'm sure there was something weighing on his conscience that he had lost people their jobs. Not only that, because his sister was actually.

His older sister worked the.

The club.

Martha Plimpton played his older sister. So he had to come up with a new venue so his sister would get a job. What ended up happening to his friend with the five finger discount there, Matt?

So, well, everybody knew where that he was a thief. So he couldn't go anywhere, he couldn't work anywhere. So he ended up having to work at the bar as a stripper. And, and that.

And his name, his name, the actor's name is Brian Sexton iii. And he actually went on to do a lot of different things.

He's actually 46 years old now and I mean, he's done a lot of work, including like welcome to the Dollhouse and Empire Records Boys Don't Cry, like a lot of big films. So.

Well, and his, his Persona, because whenever you're in an entertainment venue, like a strip club, you have a character that you present because they don't want you. They don't want you to know that they're a math teacher or something during their day job. Matt, he was dressed as a. Well, a pervert.

He wore a long jacket. What's. What are those called? Called a trench coat.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep, he did.

So he was sort of a streaker.

Yeah. This also had like Mary Kay Place. Mink Stole. Patty Hearst, of all people, right? Yes. And I mean just Lily Taylor. Tyler Taylor.

It says Taylor here, though. No wonder it seemed weird because I'm like, that's not right. Anyway, it had so many amazing people in it and gosh, what a cast. Brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

I'm gathering some facts here so we can talk about.

Are you.

So Ming Stole in in the same vein, actually, it goes back before. So John Waters sort of set the precedent in this way because he came before, obviously, Adam Sandler. In the age old tradition of show business.

John Waters has a bevy of friends and talents that he keeps in his hip pocket and people that he keeps in work. So Mink Stole is one of those actors who has been in several John Waters films. So of course recognizable by any John Waters fan.

And Mink Stole was, I think I want to say she was one of the homeless people that were in this show. No, no, it says she was a precinct captain. So she was a neighborhood cop in Pecker.

But Mink Stole was played or Mink Stol was on a, I want to say Showtime series or no Hulu series called Difficult People. And. Oh yes, and it was terrific because theater legend Andrea Martin plays the best friend's mother in this show called Difficult People. It's.

It's a twosome. It's. It's sort of Will and Grace is in that there is a straight woman and a gay best friend.

Anyways, Billy Eichner is in that series and Andrea Martin plays the woman friend's mother. So she's a therapist.

And if you could imagine, in one episode, the therapist played by Andrea Martin has one of her patients come in and she's played by Mink Stall.

And Mink Stall is just one of those characters of her own because in the, the Catherine Kathleen Turner movie serial mom, she's infamously known for that telephone conversation that was inappropriate because they talked about Willow.

Oh, yes. That was such a good, good show.

It was. Okay, well, so we've got the, the showrunners, the leads and the supporting cast.

Yeah.

So gathering the, the discussion together here, Matt, which character in Pecker would you most want to hang out with and why? Of all those interesting people, who do you think you would want to have lunch with?

Wow, that's. That's. Yeah, I was going to say maybe. Maybe Meemaw. I mean, you did a good sandwich. The mom was a really good fun thing.

That's Armstrong.

Yes. The dad was kind of hot. I mean, he was happily married, so there wouldn't be any lunch there.

I mean, he's got kids, so maybe he hasn't gotten any in a while.

Well, still, you don't want to break up a happy family. Probably Pecker. Yeah, because he seems like he would be kind of fun to talk to.

Other than that, I mean, I love all the characters and I love their craziness actually having to spend time with them. I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I'm tempted to say Meemaw just because she's kind of out there. Her idea of a good time is a church meeting, so probably not.

Maybe the girlfriend Shelly there because I mean, she's running a business so she's got to have strong opinions on things. So that's a, that's a good point. If, if Pecker and Shelly continued on, I wonder how approving NEMAW would be of, of Shelly.

Right.

And have they met? So was there a character you wish had more screen time in Pecker?

No, no, not, not really. I think they did a decent job with, with all of it. Yeah.

So, I mean, I, it would be easy to say the little sister because she was just a freak.

Yeah. I think that the reason that we loved her so much and loved her as the freak is because we got glimpses of her and we got the joke.

If we spent more time with her, we'd been like, I need to go now.

Right. We, we would, we would feel sympathy for her family, I'm sure.

Right.

If anyone had to have more screen time or deserve more screen time, I would think it's the older sister, Mark Martha Plimpton. Maybe, Maybe a little bit more.

Yeah, she could have done a little.

Bit more because, I mean, even though Pecker was the middle child, he was sort of, he was actually the most responsible one of the gang.

So there was an interesting dynamic there because it's automatically assumed that the oldest is supposed to be the most mature and the most responsible. But in this family, Packer is actually the more mature and responsible one. He's not the one working at the strip club.

That's true. Yeah.

Did you see yourself in any of the characters? Were you the little girl under the table with the sugar?

Yeah. Any see myself in any characters?

Probably the mother, like, being at the shop, like, just being like, I will do make this down to $0.15 if I can give.

Like, the way that when she was in New York, she took the tray of food outside to homeless people and then, like, giving her coat and, like, her scarf and inviting them to, like, the event. So I'm like, oh, yeah, that would be me. So, yeah.

Or as they say, not my monkeys, not my circus.

Well, I would say that of all the characters, the one that I would see myself in, I, I would probably have to say the mom, too, because sometimes there are parts of life where you're like, hydrogen, take the wheel.

Yeah, yeah.

I, I, I'm just here. What's the saying? I want to go like Grandpa. Not like the idiots in the back seat when he fell asleep in the wheel.

Right, yeah.

Yep. In a magazine interview done at the time of the film's release, Christina Ricci revealed that she hated Baltimore.

John Waters beloved hometown and the main setting of the film. When he found this out, he thought it was hilarious. She also hated Laundromats.

Her character was a workaholic laundromat manager because she often had to go to them as a child. She hated them. I'm right there with her.

Oh, yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I've. I've been fortunate enough that even some of the apartments that I've had, I had a washer and dryer because spoils of war.

When you break up from a long term relationship and they move out of state, you get to pick the goods. So I kept the appliances. Yeah. I've rude the day when I've had to go to the laundromat because I don't want to use that machine.

I saw what you just took out of it.

For me, it was the waiting. And this was, this was before we had like iPads and phones and things that had like games on them and stuff. We just have to sit there and wait.

See, out here in Gopher Gulch, the Laundromat has signs because there are farm areas surrounding and there are signs on the machine that you are not to wash any bedding materials from animals, dogs and, or horses.

Yeah.

Because there are certain things that don't come out in the wash, if you catch my drift.

Yeah.

So the claw machine in the bar, the strip club contains, among other things, a box of Hex Lax, a box of Gas X, and a liquor bottle filled with a dark brown liquor, which could possibly be bourbon, and a cell phone, which, you know, would have been quite a expensive thing to have in a. Oh, yeah, that claw machine. Right. I mean, we weren't selling them at the corner drugstores anymore for your.

They weren't even flip phones yet at that point.

So you weren't gonna sneak away from the store with one in your pocket. Let's just say.

So the delivery man in. In this one was the delivery boy in, in the first movie that he was in. So he grew up.

Yeah, that kind of reminds me of. And I'm forgetting his name right now. There was a movie called Lover Boy, I think that had Kirsty Alley in it.

And the pizza delivery guy, it was one of his early roles. He later went on to do things like I think he was in Enchanted. So let's actually look at, at who was an Enchanted.

And we'll get back to that and we'll do our rewind. Here's Enchanted because I also remember him having a, A, a cologne while he was like with Avon for a bit there. Everybody gets a.

Becomes a Horford scent. Patrick. Patrick Dempsey, in the early days of his career was a pizza delivery boy in an alley or Kirstie alley movie called Lover Boy.

Yes, I forgot about that.

Oh, the things we get up to when we look at the. The old sections of the. This was Betamax, man. I thought we got rid of this during the sidewalk sale.

Yeah.

So we are at a point in our show where we're almost done talking.

Yay.

Maybe for you. And we're going to talk to you about some things that you might enjoy if you like. Things like Pecker, you sick person, you.

So I'm gonna go ahead and make a recommendation. And it turns out to be from the same year that Pecker was out and actually includes a member of that same cast. So coincidence? Perhaps not.

This is a film about a 616 year old girl who visits her gay half brother and ends up seducing his boyfriend, thus wreaking havoc on all of their lives. It is Pride Month, at least for another few days. This stars Christina Ricci and has appearances by Lisa Kudrow.

Wow, that's a crazy one.

I haven't seen it, so actually, I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, I'm sure you'll love it.

And it reminds me of that movie Threesome. Did you ever see Threesome?

Oh, yeah.

One of the Baldwin brothers. And I'm like, this didn't go the way I was hoping it would.

Yeah. At the time it was like, oh, wow. And yet nowadays I'd look at it and be like, oh, please. So, yeah, different. All right, so the shot.

Pump up the volume.

Oh, and I think I know who.

The lead is later.

I was just going to say he was such a Star Trek fan that he wanted to be the guy who woke up Captain Sulu in Star Trek 6. Because I think it was his aunt who is one of the casting people.

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think. Well, his mom, I think, was a. Is a casting director.

Oh, okay. So we're gonna go ahead and Break that fourth wall as we do.

Next time on Matinee Minutia. It's LGBTQ Pride Month.

Ari Gross and Louise Fletcher star in a heartwarming romantic drama about Henry Hart, a successful gay New York artist who returns to his rural Montana hometown to care for his ailing grandfather father.

Oh, well, I have no idea what we're going to talk about next time, Matt. I have a feeling that we're going to be making up for being late to the party.

So let's hope that there's another priority Pride topic here on the board for next time.

I hope so. We didn't really get to do much of Pride Month. Pecker has some great gay stuff in it, so. Yeah.

Well, folks, as they told you on graduation day, remember your sunscreen and your sunglasses.

Your sunscreen.

What was it called in that scene?

There's a picture is screaming.

No, there's a famous song that people played in the 80s that was about graduation. And I thought the song was just called Sunscreen.

It had words out, maybe no more teachers, dirty looks.

That's almost a. Not a Pink Floyd. What was. Yeah, maybe it was Pink Floyd and the Wall, but that wasn't John Waters. That was somebody else. Roger Waters.

I don't think the two are related, though. So, everybody, we hope you have enjoyed your summer.

Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper. School's out.

Okay, so school's out for the summer. And watch out for those kiddos because they're probably out causing mayhem. I know that. Hector is causing mayhem.

Hector is mayhem.

Hector is mayhem. That. That is the trending hashtag there. Alrighty, folks, you all enjoy your summer responsibly and we'll catch you next time.

Thank you for listening to Matinee Minutiae.

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No, we weren't being racist. That was just an impersonation of a rewind.