Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.

Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad MIller.

Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”

To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.

https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/

**Episode 114: Lessons from Giants - Show Notes**

Welcome to another soul-lifting episode of the To Be Encouraged podcast! In Episode 114, Rev. Dr. Brad Miller sits down with Bishop Julius C. Trimble to delve into the lessons we can learn from three monumental figures who recently passed away. This riveting conversation not only memorializes these giants but also illuminates the broader implications of their lives and legacies. Here are three key takeaways from this impactful episode:

### **1. The Power of Witness and Advocacy: The Life of Rev. James Lawson**

Rev. James Lawson was a formidable figure in the civil rights and human rights movement. Though Bishop Trimble did not know him personally, Lawson's influence resonated deeply within his own ministry. A United Methodist pastor and a close associate of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Lawson was instrumental in teaching the principles of nonviolent resistance. His lifelong commitment to advocacy, social justice, and human rights serves as an inspiration for young pastors and anyone involved in social activism. Lawson demonstrated that the church's role extends beyond worship to radical prophetic witness and effective advocacy.

### **2. Theological Foundations of Hope: The Impact of Jürgen Moltmann**

Jürgen Moltmann's theological contributions, particularly his "Theology of Hope," have left an indelible mark on both academia and personal faith journeys. Jürgen Moltmann believed that theology should not be confined to the ivory tower but should translate into real-world action and hope. His writings remind us that what we believe about God should inform how we live, what we are willing to stand for, and even sacrifice for. Jürgen Moltmann emphasized the church's role as a beacon of hope in a world often filled with despair, a message that is critically relevant for young theologians and pastors today.

### **3. Overcoming Adversity to Achieve Greatness: The Legacy of Willie Mays**

Willie Mays, the legendary baseball player, symbolizes resilience and excellence in the face of adversity. Despite experiencing significant racial discrimination, Mays excelled to become one of the greatest athletes in history. His story is a testament to the power of perseverance and serves as an enduring inspiration across various professions, including ministry. Bishop Trimble reminds us that modern-day successes in sports and other fields are built on the foundations laid by trailblazers like Mays, whose struggles and achievements continue to provide motivation and guidance.

### **Conclusion: Continuing the Journey**

In this enriching episode, Bishop Julius C. Trimble underscores the importance of learning from the past to better navigate the future. The stories of Rev. James Lawson, JJürgen Moltmann, and Willie Mays offer invaluable lessons in advocacy, hope, and perseverance. As we stand on the shoulders of these giants, may their legacies inspire us to contribute positively to society and continue to offer an encouraging word to an often discouraged world.

Tune in to Episode 114 of To Be Encouraged to absorb these enlightening lessons and more. Don't forget to check out the full article referenced in the podcast, available on our show notes at tobeencouraged.com. Thank you for joining us on this inspiring journey!

Article: "When Giants Die"

Hello again, good people. This is the to be

encouraged podcast with Bishop Julius C. Treble, the

podcast where we look to offer an encouraging word to an often

discouraged world. I am your co host, reverend doctor Brad

Miller. And, today, Bishop, we're gonna talk about some

great people who Mays some impact in your life who we lost

recently. And something I think about once in a while

is is I have a birthday coming up too long not too long from

now. And every once in a while, I I think I look look at the

obituaries, make sure my name is not in there. And but we

do occasionally lose people that are important to us as we get

along in years a little bit. And that happened to you recently, and you wrote

a a movie article about some people in culture that we lost. Can you share

a little bit about the about the article that you wrote? Thank you, Brad. Thanks

for the invitation. And, Yeah. I think we all should always

should pay attention to people, not just from our own immediate

families, but people in in the world and people

who maybe have put had a particular positive impact on

our lives or or or or or or impact on our lives

in such a way that make us reflect on the

importance of our own contributions. So I wrote an article re

recently because these three persons all died around

relatively around the same time. All of them were in their

nineties. And I saw the article was When Giants

Die. And there's an African proverb. I have a number of

proverbs that I call my favorite proverbs. There's a proverb that says when an

old person dies, we lose a library. And what

does that mean? To me, that translates that when

certain people die, older people die, a lot of

history, a lot of memory, a lot of experiences

have gone with them unless we unless they pass that on or we

study those persons, we can quickly forget about their contributions.

So I wrote this article in part just to as a way

of giving testimony and affirmation

of the lives these 3 giants of their of their

lives and their contribution, but also because they all had some

impact on my own ministry and my own growth.

Let's let's unpack that then. You've mentioned there were 3 people mentioned in the

article. 1 of it was reverend, James Lawson. Tell us what the impact of

this that he had on you, a little bit about his background

as you understand it, and the personal impact on you. And why why

should it matter to the rest of us? Well, I did not know reverend James

Lawson personally. I I Mays I may I've met him on a couple

of occasions, probably in gatherings, but he

wouldn't I don't think he knew me personally. But

reverend James Lawson, a United Methodist pastor who

also was one of the preeminent leaders in the

civil rights civil and I call civil and human rights movement

of the 19 late 19 fifties sixties.

In fact, like others who were still living on the late

John Lewis, congressman John Lewis, you know, James Lawson

continued to be a civil rights and human rights activist

up until his death. Again, like I said, the the

three people I wrote about all live past the age of 90.

Reverend James Lawson was the pastor of Holman United Methodist Church for

25 years. But part of his story includes

his travel to India as a global

Mays a global ministries missionary

to India and his studying of Gandhi's

non violence protest,

soul power. The and and and Lawson

became one of the foremost teachers

nonviolence resistance Mays based on Gandhi's,

but also based on Christian principles as well. In 1957,

doctor Martin Luther King Junior invited Lawson, the

reverend James Lawson to come and to begin to to to teach

those who were in the civil rights movement about the

principles and practices and the discipline needed in order

to utilize nonviolent protest. Oh,

influence on M. L. King. Right? Significant influence on Martin Luther

King Junior and on and on movements. In fact, I

believe the history reports that he was he

was suspended from his studies at Vanderbilt

because of his leading protest nonviolent protest in

Nashville. And later in his life much later in his life, he

was invited back to Vanderbilt to preach and to he

received numerous honorary degrees

after his involvement with the Willie rights movement. So how is he per

you touched on it here, but tell us more more about how he was personally

impactful on you and your ministry, particularly in your

own interest in advocacy and civil rights and other things of

this nature. His witness just because I knew about him. His he was

a pastor for 25 years. And and when I think about people

who are who are practitioners, you know, he preached the

gospel. He preached on a regular basis from a

congregation for 25 years and continued also

to advocate for the acceptance of the LGBTQ

community, for persons to have the right for collective bargaining,

the ending of gun violence, the the role of the church to

be radical in terms of our prophetic witness

to reduce violence. He was also a person who believed

in in forgiveness, a powerful witness for

forgiveness. So it was really his witness, his writings,

his what I knew about him that was an impact on me

because I was also very committed to to

to nonviolent protest, but also to the church

being more than just a place of worship and a place

of where we had priestly and pietistic

responsibilities, but also prophetic. It was his prophetic witness

and that really had impact on on me.

And why should his message Giants his ministry not only impact

be influential to you, but why does it matter to, for

instance, a young pastor coming up or someone else? I think

anybody that would take the time to study, to

work the writings and witness of James, reverend James Lawson

would understand, he really embodied our general rules, you know,

doing no harm, doing good, staying in love with God. He

really he was able to to to really

demonstrate that and embody that

that rule that Wesley taught that that that that that those who belong

to the movement, the Methodist movement, really must give witness

to. Well, thanks, for sharing that about, reverend

James Lawson. The second person you mentioned is a giant that had

influence on you who passed away in the same general time frame of June

of 2024 Mays a person who you and I may have been

introduced to him in a theology class at Garrett a Garrett Evangelical

40 something years ago. Because as Jurgen Moulma and I read some of

his material in in seminary and was influenced by

his theological writings and and thoughts. Tell me why

he was on your list of giants. Well, because he was one of

those theologians that you actually kinda remembered some of what he wrote. You know,

we we we we studied a lot of theologians and so Well,

he's one of the few textbooks that still remains in my library. I'll put it

that way. Yeah. That that it really and, you know, it's I think it was

World Council of Churches that said that he that he may have been one of

the most widely read theologians for of 80 years.

Moltmann, who is German Mhmm.

Wrote about hope a lot. Yeah. And I consider myself I'm

borrowing the words of Desmond Tutu, but I consider

myself a prisoner of hope. Yes. And Moltman wrote

about hope, but he also was one who

believed that that the church had a

radical needed to have a radical commitment to denounce violence.

And he was one whose witness and his writing

were was was embodied by his understanding

of the Bible, particularly the Sermon on the Mount and the life and witness

of Jesus Christ in such a way that it really

should have practical. So his the theology of hope and

his theology really really, he felt, should be something

that made the church, the church

alive, the church on the move, and was what

Wesley would probably call practical theological Sounds like he gave some theological

structure and some foundation and depth

to what formed your theological thinking. We became

into the church and, you know, mix that in with, with Lawson

and, you know, get a lot of what you were involved with. Well

and he he what what really impacted me too was the sense that, well,

here's a theologian who believes that what you believe about

God really should translate to what you what what are you willing to witness

for. And, of course, he when he began to witness

against the rise of Nazism Mhmm. And Hitler, he was

arrested and eventually executed. And he could've chosen just

to teach at Yale or or Duke or or Garrett or

anywhere else and, you know, never return never

returned to to to to Germany,

particularly during the turn during that time of his witness. But he

he did not do that, And his writings have since lasted on.

That doesn't mean that I when I think back on it, there were Mays there

are many may Mays be some things that I didn't agree with in the

in the way in which he he presented theology

his theology. But theology, the sense that

the church must be a sign of God's hope in a world

that often is desperately in need of hope. Yeah. That's one of the

I guess if you just Mays, what can I remember? That that part I do

remember and, you know, his book Theology of Hope. But

even though I've said and I've been quoted as saying, hope is not a

strategy, but you it's hard to live without hope. You gotta have it.

That's gonna be part of your motivation and your energy behind

that drives your strategy. So why should, Montmoren

matter to a young pastor or a young theologian coming up now? What

does he offer that matters now to them? Well, what does God mean to

you? What does the Bible mean to you? And what are you willing to live

for and die for? What does God mean to

you? What does the Bible mean to you? What are you willing to live

for and even possibly die for? And I

think that's what Moltman you know, I I remember one of

the the a theologian saying, it's pretty easy being a

theologian compared to being a pastor. This is when we were in

seminary. Saying he said, because we can hide in the ivory tower, if you

will, and write about things. Sure. And you have to actually live with people that

may disagree with you. So but some

theologian, in this case, Moltman, their their

theology isn't just theology that's on pages

in books or that you can look up on your computer. When

you look at their witness in the long span of their life. Just heard

heard a story at North Central Jurisdiction Conference by Paul

Chilcott about Montmart, who has his at a 17 as a

17 year old, was conscripted in actually into the German

air force. Mhmm. And so he was he he he

almost kinda had the Pollock's apostle Paul experience,

because he had been dropping bombs on

on on Europe and later

later was no longer in the military and later turned around

and became prominent theologian

as an adult later in life, which goes to show you

that God can take someone who's in one place and,

later on, use them in a significantly different way. Well,

that's that's awesome. Thank you for sharing about that. It Mays a reminder of me

of to, look him up again. Mhmm. Because, to be honest with you, I hadn't

thought about Montmoren in a long time. I I thought, you know, there there were

some impacting things about that for me as well. 3rd person

on your list of Giants was, was an athlete,

Willie Mays. Willie Mays. The Mays Hey Kid. Man, oh, man. Just for

persons of our era and others, It was prior

to us. He was the man, wasn't he, in baseball? He he was the man,

and, you know, there were a lot of great obviously, a lot of great athletes

and stars in baseball, you know, Henry Aaron, you know, Babe Ruth. It depends

on what era you were in. And, you know, I obviously, I was

quite young. But Willie Mays' story is is just a

phenomenal story from from Alabama. He played in

the Negro Leagues for several years as a teenager

and before he was before he was signed on to

a professional baseball contract by the New

York Giants, which later became the San Francisco Giants.

And when I think about, you know, who are the great players who

wore a Giants uniform, I think of Willie

Mays. And, of course, there's they still play films of

it, of this over the shoulder catch he made. Classic. And

he, yeah, he writes that that wasn't his greatest catch. It's

often is the case about what big with with

superstar athletes when they have there's an iconic picture or

film of them. They often say that wasn't the best one I've ever done. I've

done some that were even more fantastic. They just didn't get them on

they they didn't get them on Yeah. I think it might have been the Willie

series or something when he did that. Yeah. And so he's had the I know,

you know, some great basketball stars. I know Michael Jordan was supposedly did his

greatest stuff in practice, for instance. So so

yeah. Well, that well, that's Willie Mays. What well, I wrote about Willie Mays

because I just, well, the number 1, the article is When

Giants Die. And I I was a he was a Giants even though I think

he maybe his last, you know, few bats at bats, he might have been at

with the New York Mets or something. But Right. But but for most of his

career, he played for the Giants, San Francisco Giants, and

the and the initially, the New York Giants. And he

played 2 years in the Negro Negro Leagues and

he play he was in the military. Yeah. I've often I

didn't remember that. He had served during the Korean War

in the military, I think, I wanna say Mays 2, 3 years. Yeah. So when

you think about 2 or 3 years in the military where he was not in

the Mays leagues at that time, and you add that

to 2 years he played in the Negro Leagues, some

calculate that he could've hit a 800 home run. Sure.

Well, and I'm sure I know there are stories about him dealing with, you know,

racism and all kinds of really horrible treatment in his

especially his early days of playing baseball. In fact, one things I happened to see

during that time is Reggie Jackson, a little bit more of a contemporary of ours,

Mays baseball player, was being interviewed about Willie Mays' death and

how Willie Mays was helpful to him as a young black baseball player coming

up, but he was in tears describing his experiences

of racism and so on. And so so can you say this word about that,

how some of these people, not only in baseball but other walks of life,

did blaze a trail for some others to follow, and that needs to be held

up as well. Yeah. You know, I mean, I've experienced racism

being a black bishop in Iowa and Indiana, but

nothing compared to what a Willie Mays or a Reggie

Jackson experienced playing at the highest level of their

sports. Can you imagine performing at the

highest level of your job or your your profession

and at the same time on a regular or daily basis

experiencing someone discriminating against you or calling you

names or or or doing things to try to

deter your excellence Yeah. Or or minimize your contribution.

And so I don't even think I can fully fathom

or understand all that Willie Mays or Hank

Aaron or Jackie Robinson even watching the movie Jackie

Robinson, I got some you get some glimpse to what that could

have been like. But to be on a bus and go to

places and then everybody on the team be Willie. But

you Yeah. Are saying, well, we all

can eat at a restaurant except you have to go around the back to the

kitchen to get your meal. Disgusting. That to imagine that. And then the

next day, play a game and play, you know Have people cheering for you. Have

people cheering for you. You may have just kept you from the same people.

So that you know, it's hard to hard to understand. We

often talk about microaggressions, but those weren't

microaggression. Those are major aggressions in the sense

that you're you're being wounded on a regular

basis and yet you still are able to achieve

fame and go into the hall of fame Right. As one of

the greatest players of all time. So I think Willie Mays and you know what?

What I regret when people tell me about Gregory, I don't have a lot of

regrets. But I sure wish I would've kept all my baseball cards. Oh,

my. Me too. Me too. Yeah. Me too. I didn't have the foresight

to think that, you know, these things were you know, e even if I

didn't sell them out, you know, I'd be able to look back and pass them

on and and, you know Yeah. And there's The history once again,

I could say when an old person dies, we lose the library. And when we

don't tell these stories, because, obviously, many people reading the

article or hearing this this podcast

Willie say, I don't know any of those those guys that they're talking about.

Well, let's talk about that for a second because we're talking about, you know, about

Willie Mays, whose career ended 50 years

ago or so. I remember, I think he played up to the early seventies,

but would be out of the limelight for many years

now. But why does his contribution it matters

to you, obviously, and I remember it so well. But why should

it matter to a young person, be they an athlete or a pastor or anybody

else? Why should it matter now? Well, here's what the reason it matters.

We stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us. That's

across the the the the the plane of history.

So everything that we are doing now or experiencing

now, someone has done that before us. So if you

play baseball today or or you participate in

whatever sport or whatever profession, someone

has laid a a the groundwork for

for you and I to participate. The same thing with ministry. So

I think about the Jim Lawsons of the world and others who've gone

on before us. So Willie Mays, even after he

stopped playing, continue to be an ambassador for the game

of baseball, in particular for persons

who may have come from marginalized communities or

impoverished communities to have access to play

baseball. Fortunately, baseball is a game. It's not a you

don't have to be wealthy to participate. We used to play baseball in

the lot next to the railroad tracks. And a baseball glove.

You're also You get a if somebody had a if somebody had the bats, you

know, you didn't even have to own a bat. As long as someone had a

bat, you all you needed was to get your own glove, and

someone had balls and someone else had bats, you could make your own bases.

You didn't need you didn't even need to have real bases. You could Yeah. You

just throw up your t shirt on the ground or whatever it would be. And

Yeah. So so that's can have Yeah. Yeah. So so Mays when I think

about it, it's important because someone has the the when I

think about the contracts, Aaron Judge and so forth, some of

these the recent contracts in terms of what they're signed for how

much money Astronomical. Yeah. It wouldn't have happened without a Willie Mays. That wouldn't have

happened. In fact, he made the news, you know, New York

Times because he got one of the you know, I think he got a $100,000

Yeah. Contract. 1, you know, 1 of the first players to get a $100,000

contract and which would have been quite a bit of money

at that time. But now when you think about some of the the the you

know? We'll tie we'll tie this all together for us, Bishop. You've got these three

persons, Reverend James Lawson, Jurgen Moltman, the theologian,

and Willie Mays. What is a common denominator here of,

standing on the shoulders of giants as you said as as you shared, which

is meaningful and then important moving forward. How how can

people take this message that you gave and apply it to

their lives? Well, here's something I want people to hear about these 3 Giants.

And there are others, many women as well with the with fallen,

that they continue to give witness give witness to

their faith long after they were, quote unquote, at retire

mandatory retirement age. Mhmm. Lawson, right up until the

time of his his death almost, to the sickness and

death, the same thing with Moltman only a few years ago Willie with

had been interviewed and the same thing with Willie Mays.

Until their Willie their health failed them, they continue to give

witness to their faith and to their

their desire to make the society better. And for me, that

really matters because I'm formally retiring

retired now as an active bishop. Yeah. So do I just stop

giving witness to my faith? Or do I stop giving witness or making a

positive impact? And I think this podcast really

has been about encouraging beyond any Willie

or restrictions. And that encouragement goes

beyond the professionalism. You know, you served x

amount of time as a bishop, and Willie Mays, after such and such a time,

couldn't play baseball anymore, but he certainly, ambassador, you could still share

the good news. You'd still be a conduit by which god can

work. So any closing thoughts on this before we

say goodbye on this episode? Well, I'd like to say that if you're

listening to this podcast, you are a hall of famer because God loves

you, and God has put the hand handprint of God's grace and

mercy upon your life. The Imago Dei, the handprint of

God is upon all of us. And I think one of the

messages I heard from North Central Jurisdiction Mays we were closing, Bishop

Palmer, talked about that we are children

of God, 1st John 3, and that is who we are.

And I want people to remember that you are a child of God. That

is who you are. You're a child of God. That's who you

are. What a wonderful way for us to close this episode as

we talk about standing on the shoulders of giants. We'll put

a link to the article we spoke of here in our show notes

at to be encouraged dotcom. Bishop, thank you for being

our guest here on To Be Encouraged. We Mays remind you that the To Be

Encouraged podcast is to offer an encouraging word to an often

discouraged world and is brought to you by revere

by, bishop, bishop Trimble and myself, reverend

doctor Brad Miller.