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Speaking with Confidence and Influence
Episode 2726th January 2024 • Connect & Convert: The Sales Accelerator Podcast • Sales RX and Wizard of Ads Employee Optimization
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Dennis Collins and Leah Bumphrey discuss scientific research on how to speak persuasively and with confidence. They provide practical tips on word choice, admitting mistakes, using emotions and stories effectively, eliminating verbal fillers, and more to help listeners improve their communication skills.

Transcripts

Dennis Collins:

Hello again, and welcome to Connect & Convert, Insider Strategies

Dennis Collins:

for Small Business Sales Success, where our belief is, it's not about what

Dennis Collins:

you learn, it's about what you do.

Dennis Collins:

Hey, I'm Dennis Collins, and I'm joined today by my colleague, Leah Bumfrey.

Leah Bumphry:

Hi, Leah.

Leah Bumphry:

Hello, hello.

Leah Bumphry:

Hello.

Leah Bumphry:

And somewhere in the ether, Paul is there looking out for us.

Leah Bumphry:

I can just tell.

Leah Bumphry:

I can just tell.

Dennis Collins:

Thank God.

Dennis Collins:

I don't know if we could do this on our own.

Dennis Collins:

In fact, no, I do know we couldn't.

Leah Bumphry:

You and I would be having a nice cup of coffee.

Leah Bumphry:

If we were in Canada, we'd be at Tim Hortons.

Leah Bumphry:

I don't know where we'd be in the States.

Leah Bumphry:

Would it be Starbucks?

Leah Bumphry:

We'd be just having a chat.

Dennis Collins:

You don't have Starbucks up in Canada?

Leah Bumphry:

We do, but it doesn't have the same legendary

Leah Bumphry:

appeal as a Tim Hortons.

Leah Bumphry:

When you come see me up here and help me shovel snow, we'll, we'll talk.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, uh, don't hold your breath on that one.

Dennis Collins:

I would love to see you, but how about July?

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

All right.

Dennis Collins:

All right.

Dennis Collins:

All right.

Dennis Collins:

All right.

Dennis Collins:

Speaking with confidence, Leah.

Dennis Collins:

Speaking with confidence.

Dennis Collins:

What does science have to tell us about being heard, understood, and influential?

Dennis Collins:

I I don't know.

Dennis Collins:

I was never a very confident speaker growing up.

Dennis Collins:

You know, I, I ended up being a radio DJ and a host and all that behind the mic.

Dennis Collins:

But were you a cop?

Dennis Collins:

Were you a confident speaker?

Dennis Collins:

I mean, I bet you were.

Dennis Collins:

I bet you stood up at age seven and did speeches.

Leah Bumphry:

I did.

Leah Bumphry:

And I, I always loved it.

Leah Bumphry:

Uh, public speaking to me, it was just a whole connection with a

Leah Bumphry:

whole bunch of people all at once.

Leah Bumphry:

And I, I, I just was thrilled with it.

Leah Bumphry:

What I do know is anyone can learn to be a confident speaker.

Leah Bumphry:

That doesn't mean you're going to learn to love to public speak.

Leah Bumphry:

There's, there's a difference.

Leah Bumphry:

And for most of us in our, in our public that are in our, our business

Leah Bumphry:

lives, you have to learn to be confident because what is sales?

Leah Bumphry:

Being able to transfer confidence now.

Leah Bumphry:

I'm not talking about being fake and I'm not talking about no, you know

Leah Bumphry:

being there You know having to have this bold effervescent personality.

Leah Bumphry:

It's confidence can be quiet And it doesn't mean you're going to love

Leah Bumphry:

it, but you can learn how to do it.

Dennis Collins:

Yes, you can.

Dennis Collins:

So what if I told you that anyone can learn to speak with more confidence?

Dennis Collins:

People are more likely to listen to you.

Dennis Collins:

Do you want people to listen to you if you're in sales, if

Dennis Collins:

you're a manager, a leader?

Dennis Collins:

Hey, if you're a spouse, a husband, a wife, do you want

Dennis Collins:

your kids to listen to you?

Dennis Collins:

Well, guess what?

Dennis Collins:

There are ways that you can become more persuasive.

Dennis Collins:

It can be learned.

Dennis Collins:

You want to be more certain, more confident, more self

Dennis Collins:

assured, more knowledgeable.

Dennis Collins:

Well, the scientists, again, you know, I always turn to science.

Dennis Collins:

Leah is of, Leah is of the heart.

Dennis Collins:

I am.

Dennis Collins:

And I am of the science.

Dennis Collins:

So we blend.

Dennis Collins:

We blend.

Dennis Collins:

It's a good combination.

Dennis Collins:

I think it is.

Dennis Collins:

But scientists have now researched this.

Dennis Collins:

They've researched everything at one time or another.

Dennis Collins:

And they have now defined the most powerful words.

Dennis Collins:

And they have defined the fact that this skill can be learned

Dennis Collins:

by choosing your words carefully.

Dennis Collins:

You can increase your verbal power.

Dennis Collins:

Do I need to say why this is important in sales?

Dennis Collins:

That is how we make a living in sales.

Dennis Collins:

With words.

Dennis Collins:

So let's, uh, let me say first of all that all of the science that

Dennis Collins:

we're gonna discuss in this episode is based on research conducted by

Dennis Collins:

one of my favorite professors, Dr.

Dennis Collins:

Jonah Berger, professor at the Wharton School, university of Pennsylvania.

Dennis Collins:

He is a prolific author.

Dennis Collins:

A well known and sought after speaker and a business consultant.

Dennis Collins:

So this stuff is, the science part of this is coming from Jonah Berger.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

So Leah, have you ever tried listening to someone who kind of hedges?

Dennis Collins:

Well, kind of, maybe somewhat, usually generally.

Dennis Collins:

Have you ever heard somebody talk like that?

Dennis Collins:

Maybe something, maybe around, maybe some kind of.

Leah Bumphry:

Absolutely.

Leah Bumphry:

And you know what?

Leah Bumphry:

You know right away what else is going on there.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Well, what else?

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Hedging.

Dennis Collins:

Well, the problem is people deduct that there's nothing going on there.

Dennis Collins:

It lessens the impact.

Dennis Collins:

It suggests that you're uncertain, that your ideas aren't worth considering.

Dennis Collins:

So the first hint that I want to give today is if you find yourself

Dennis Collins:

using those hedge words, forget them.

Dennis Collins:

Definite words.

Dennis Collins:

Definitely.

Dennis Collins:

Clearly.

Dennis Collins:

Obviously.

Dennis Collins:

It's totally clear.

Dennis Collins:

That projects confidence.

Dennis Collins:

That makes it more easy and more likely that people will

Dennis Collins:

listen to you and follow you.

Dennis Collins:

What about this?

Dennis Collins:

This is one that's debated over and over again, and I'd

Dennis Collins:

love your opinion on this one.

Dennis Collins:

Science has something to say about this, but I'd like to hear

Dennis Collins:

what Leah thinks about this.

Dennis Collins:

How about occasionally admitting I screwed up?

Dennis Collins:

Oh, I can't, I messed up.

Dennis Collins:

It's on me.

Dennis Collins:

It's my fault.

Dennis Collins:

How about that?

Dennis Collins:

How does that help?

Dennis Collins:

Doesn't that hinder communication?

Dennis Collins:

Doesn't that make you look bad?

Leah Bumphry:

It becomes real.

Leah Bumphry:

Now that's if you really did screw up, not, not if you're,

Leah Bumphry:

you're making an affectation so that you seem more real people.

Leah Bumphry:

Let's say you really screwed up.

Leah Bumphry:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphry:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphry:

I mean.

Leah Bumphry:

The.

Leah Bumphry:

The.

Leah Bumphry:

The.

Leah Bumphry:

It, when you are willing to do that, it actually makes the connection stronger.

Leah Bumphry:

And think about in personal life that, that's very true.

Leah Bumphry:

So much so, so much more in business because in business you

Leah Bumphry:

don't have a lot of times any kind of a relationship with someone.

Leah Bumphry:

If you can come forward and I, we've all been in those situations, human

Leah Bumphry:

error, something goes wrong, a mistake is made, the wrong part is ordered.

Leah Bumphry:

This this happened.

Leah Bumphry:

And I am so sorry, and that's not how I wanted to do it, but

Leah Bumphry:

I'm going to make it better.

Leah Bumphry:

It gives you the opportunity to forge a relationship.

Leah Bumphry:

If you're not willing to do that, it's, it's not a real conversation.

Dennis Collins:

Well, yes, and science, here I go again, science

Dennis Collins:

has something to say about that.

Dennis Collins:

Absolutely what you said is correct.

Dennis Collins:

Occasionally admitting a mistake.

Dennis Collins:

negates the fact that you're nearly perfect, right?

Dennis Collins:

It makes you more human.

Dennis Collins:

But here is the twist.

Dennis Collins:

There's a twist to this.

Dennis Collins:

It only works if you're already perceived to be competent.

Dennis Collins:

You see what I'm saying?

Dennis Collins:

If you are perceived to be a loser, incompetent, okay, not

Dennis Collins:

capable, admitting a mistake.

Dennis Collins:

It only builds the case against you.

Dennis Collins:

But if you are viewed as a person who is generally dependable and

Dennis Collins:

competent, occasionally admitting mistake makes you approachable.

Dennis Collins:

It makes you more vulnerable.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

But again, with that caveat.

Leah Bumphry:

And I would add to that, Dennis, if you're working with

Leah Bumphry:

someone else who made the mistake and you're the one having to tell the

Leah Bumphry:

client about it, telling them that it was Dennis that made the mistake.

Leah Bumphry:

It's the worst thing you can do.

Leah Bumphry:

I'm saying, you know what, Paul, that was not my fault.

Leah Bumphry:

It was Dennis that did it.

Leah Bumphry:

Don't, I'm sorry, I've worked with Dennis, I'm trying.

Leah Bumphry:

He keeps on and on and this happened, but I'm gonna fix it.

Leah Bumphry:

I love Dennis.

Leah Bumphry:

I end up looking, especially if there's no relationship there, I

Leah Bumphry:

look like someone passing the buck.

Leah Bumphry:

I'm kicking Dennis windows down.

Leah Bumphry:

I'm not willing to work as a team.

Leah Bumphry:

So there, there's some intricacies to being to the honesty, even if.

Leah Bumphry:

Dennis, even if you did mess up, I'm not going to say it was you.

Dennis Collins:

Well, there's one exception to that.

Dennis Collins:

Anything that gets screwed up on this podcast is Boomer's fault.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

So

Leah Bumphry:

you and I know it.

Leah Bumphry:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphry:

But don't tell him I said that.

Leah Bumphry:

I agree.

Dennis Collins:

No, but you know what, what you're talking

Dennis Collins:

about is the finger pointing.

Dennis Collins:

Yes.

Dennis Collins:

Finger pointing you, you, you, that never works.

Dennis Collins:

Never works.

Dennis Collins:

That is the worst thing you can do.

Dennis Collins:

It's always me and I, I'm uncomfortable when you say that I'm uncomfortable

Dennis Collins:

when you're late for the meeting.

Dennis Collins:

You make me uncomfortable.

Dennis Collins:

I'm not you.

Dennis Collins:

I am uncomfortable when you don't abide by what we agreed to our agreements.

Dennis Collins:

So how about emotional words?

Dennis Collins:

That's a no brainer.

Dennis Collins:

We know.

Dennis Collins:

You don't need the science to know that emotional words and

Dennis Collins:

concepts, they grab attention.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Yep.

Dennis Collins:

But here is another twist.

Dennis Collins:

Maybe you already knew this, Leah, because you're a, a wonderful writer.

Dennis Collins:

Emotion.

Dennis Collins:

There are certain types of emotional words that get more attention than others.

Dennis Collins:

Did you know that?

Leah Bumphry:

Well, I'm not surprised, but tell me more.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

How about emotional words that denote uncertainty work better

Dennis Collins:

according to the scientists?

Dennis Collins:

Words like unsettled, anxious, doubtful, unsure, okay?

Dennis Collins:

Positive emotional words are good, but uncertain Emotional words are better.

Dennis Collins:

Isn't that interesting?

Leah Bumphry:

And you know, that makes sense to me, because when

Leah Bumphry:

we feel uncertain, we're actually baring our soul a little bit more.

Leah Bumphry:

We're actually sharing something a little bit deeper.

Leah Bumphry:

At least when, when in, in this kind of an instance.

Leah Bumphry:

So it would grab attention.

Leah Bumphry:

People are not expecting that.

Leah Bumphry:

We've all walked into a store and it's an obvious commissioned

Leah Bumphry:

salesperson and everything looks absolutely fantastic on you.

Leah Bumphry:

And it's gorgeous.

Leah Bumphry:

Oh, it's perfect.

Leah Bumphry:

It fits you like a glove.

Leah Bumphry:

It looks fantastic.

Leah Bumphry:

And real women hate that as much as real men do.

Leah Bumphry:

But yet there are still those unreal type of salespeople that do that.

Leah Bumphry:

Now, I'm much more likely to buy the really fancy hat, not the fancy hat,

Leah Bumphry:

but the jacket from the salesperson that looks at one on me and goes, you know

Leah Bumphry:

what, I'm not sure about that one on you.

Leah Bumphry:

Let's try this.

Leah Bumphry:

Ah!

Leah Bumphry:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphry:

Because all of a sudden, she's sharing something with me that's

Leah Bumphry:

maybe not that comfortable.

Dennis Collins:

Say, Leah, that looks doubtful on you.

Leah Bumphry:

And there's been those times, let me tell ya.

Dennis Collins:

Or Leah, I'm anxious when I see you wearing that.

Dennis Collins:

And again, we're kidding, but you get, of course, now here, here's

Dennis Collins:

something that I need your help on.

Dennis Collins:

You are, if anyone has read anything that Leah Bumfrey has written, you are lucky.

Dennis Collins:

You're fortunate because she is a magnificent, inspiring writer.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, if you, if you go to wizard of ads, partners, uh, our webpage.

Dennis Collins:

You'll see her work featured on there under her real name, Leah Bumphrey.

Dennis Collins:

But she's a great storyteller.

Dennis Collins:

And so I'm gonna pose a question to you.

Dennis Collins:

What story Tra ? Yeah, I Trajectory?

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, you can do it.

Dennis Collins:

There you go.

Dennis Collins:

is the most persuasive.

Dennis Collins:

What does science tell us?

Dennis Collins:

Okay, there are three choices.

Dennis Collins:

Straight line, no ups or downs, just straight to the point.

Dennis Collins:

Second, negative up to a positive, and then down to a negative.

Dennis Collins:

So, negative to positive, positive to negative.

Dennis Collins:

Third choice, a roller coaster ride.

Dennis Collins:

Frequent peaks and valleys, many ups and downs, boom, you're on.

Leah Bumphry:

It's a, it's a, it's almost a trick question because

Leah Bumphry:

you think of the word persuasive.

Leah Bumphry:

Okay, what story method is the most persuasive?

Leah Bumphry:

You would think the straight line.

Leah Bumphry:

You're here and I want you to go to here and I'm just shooting to kill.

Leah Bumphry:

I am telling you this is the way it is.

Leah Bumphry:

So that's our, our, our head or the, maybe the science dentist

Leah Bumphry:

would have us think it's this.

Leah Bumphry:

But in fact.

Leah Bumphry:

I don't believe that to be true.

Leah Bumphry:

I think when you're telling a story and you're trying to persuade someone, you

Leah Bumphry:

want them to hear what you're saying.

Leah Bumphry:

You want them to be part of the story.

Leah Bumphry:

You want them to visualize it.

Leah Bumphry:

So the up and down, the, the, the setting, the stage, the involving them,

Leah Bumphry:

getting them emotionally invested, having them visualize their own life,

Leah Bumphry:

their own first grade teacher, their own mailbox, whatever, whatever the

Leah Bumphry:

story is about is going to hook them.

Leah Bumphry:

I had, uh, editor ones that told me that that beginning hook that, that, that start

Leah Bumphry:

where you have them decide, yes, I want to know this and they're going to go a little

Leah Bumphry:

bit deeper and then it does a switch.

Leah Bumphry:

So they're going to go a little bit different.

Leah Bumphry:

And then, Oh, here's this different, that is going to persuade much more than just.

Leah Bumphry:

Telling them the story.

Dennis Collins:

Well, Miss Lea, wehh always knew you were about the smartest

Dennis Collins:

person in the room, which is always true.

Dennis Collins:

But, what does the science say?

Dennis Collins:

Okay?

Dennis Collins:

It is somewhat counterintuitive.

Dennis Collins:

As you would, as you said, first, the straight line, no ups or

Dennis Collins:

downs, is probably the go to way that most people tell stories.

Dennis Collins:

But it's not the one that's the most persuasive.

Dennis Collins:

Ah.

Dennis Collins:

It's the roller coaster, just as you, uh, illustrated, the ups and the downs.

Dennis Collins:

That is the most persuasive story.

Dennis Collins:

So when you're crafting a sales story or a story about your business, a

Dennis Collins:

marketing story, use the ups and downs.

Dennis Collins:

You know, maybe your origin story had some downs in it.

Dennis Collins:

There were some bad times, right?

Dennis Collins:

And all of a sudden things got great.

Dennis Collins:

Everything was lovely.

Dennis Collins:

And then all of a sudden, Oh, 2007, 2008 hit boom down again.

Dennis Collins:

How do we recover from that?

Dennis Collins:

That's the kind of story that people listen to and are persuaded by, I guess.

Dennis Collins:

You're right on with that one.

Leah Bumphry:

But Dennis, when you think about it, we were talking at

Leah Bumphry:

the beginning about public speaking and whether you love it or hate it,

Leah Bumphry:

but the ability to do it confidently.

Leah Bumphry:

When you are talking to an audience and you are talking to that one person in

Leah Bumphry:

there and you pick that person and you see them engaged in what it is that you're

Leah Bumphry:

saying, that builds the confidence because when you are connected to all that energy

Leah Bumphry:

in a room, I don't care if you're talking to two people or you're talking to 200 or

Leah Bumphry:

2000, those people If they are listening to you, if you have them coming on this

Leah Bumphry:

ride with you, there's only you and them individually in the story and in the room.

Leah Bumphry:

And that is how you become a confident speaker and that is how

Leah Bumphry:

you persuade and that is how you form connections with your listeners.

Dennis Collins:

Wow, you just gave a brilliant example of

Dennis Collins:

synchronicity, brain synchronicity.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, that is exactly what happens.

Dennis Collins:

Let's say that the experiment that I'm thinking of that, uh,

Dennis Collins:

the Wharton professors have done is about a movie trailer, okay?

Dennis Collins:

And they put groups of people in different theaters and they play

Dennis Collins:

different movie trailers for them, right?

Dennis Collins:

And the ones that resonate most are brief, emotional, to the point.

Dennis Collins:

And short.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

They're not long winded trailers and guess which one they try others that

Dennis Collins:

are longer, louder, not as compelling.

Dennis Collins:

guess which one wins, the one that creates brain synchronicity, they put

Dennis Collins:

them in an fMRI machine and the brains are synchronized, which means that is

Dennis Collins:

the highest level of communication.

Dennis Collins:

So you just perfectly described that.

Dennis Collins:

I hope our listeners will go back and play that over because she said it as well

Dennis Collins:

or better than any scientist ever said.

Dennis Collins:

Thank you folks!

Dennis Collins:

Okay!

Dennis Collins:

Next topic, turn past into present.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, what does that all mean?

Dennis Collins:

Well, a lot of times we use a past tense.

Dennis Collins:

Well, this thing was true at some point in the past, the solution worked

Dennis Collins:

well, uh, something, um, that we found this to be true in the past.

Dennis Collins:

doesn't work as well as this solution works.

Dennis Collins:

Well, not worked well, or what you find today, not what you found.

Dennis Collins:

Isn't that interesting?

Dennis Collins:

Present tense suggests action, doing something, some stability,

Dennis Collins:

something more enduring than something that used to happen.

Dennis Collins:

So put your past.

Dennis Collins:

Isn't that something, put the past tense in the past and use action words.

Leah Bumphry:

I am enjoying our conversations.

Leah Bumphry:

I'm not hoping to enjoy our conversations.

Leah Bumphry:

I am enjoying them.

Leah Bumphry:

If I, if I say I'm hoping to, that leaves you going, Oh, is she hoping

Leah Bumphry:

that that sounds going to be good?

Leah Bumphry:

Is it?

Leah Bumphry:

What, what, what?

Leah Bumphry:

Or she did before she doesn't anymore?

Leah Bumphry:

No, I am.

Leah Bumphry:

We are wired, but we're wired to think of.

Leah Bumphry:

What is as being what always will be and, and where we are.

Leah Bumphry:

And that is so important because that's all our brain understands.

Dennis Collins:

Present tense, you got it, the now.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

So let's wrap this up into a little new year's gift, put a bow on it.

Dennis Collins:

How can you speak with more confidence?

Dennis Collins:

Forget the hedge words, forget about the kind of, the maybes, the

Dennis Collins:

usuallys, the generallys, et cetera.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, forget.

Dennis Collins:

Oh, I forgot one.

Dennis Collins:

The verbal tics.

Dennis Collins:

Forget the verbal tics.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, I, I, have you ever been a member of Toastmasters by any chance?

Leah Bumphry:

I've taken some classes, but not a member.

Leah Bumphry:

No.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

Well, I've been a member for years and they have a little ceremony.

Dennis Collins:

I guess you can call it ritual that whenever you say a tick word, they ring a

Dennis Collins:

bell right in the middle of your speech.

Dennis Collins:

You could be given the most serious.

Dennis Collins:

speech you've ever given in your life.

Dennis Collins:

And if you say, um, er, filler words, ding, the bell goes off

Dennis Collins:

right in the middle of your speech.

Dennis Collins:

Now you don't stop speaking.

Dennis Collins:

It just to warn you that you said a filler word.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

How about recorded sales calls?

Dennis Collins:

As you know, I listened to hundreds of hours of actual recorded sales calls.

Dennis Collins:

I will say this.

Dennis Collins:

The person in this particular group that is doing the worst at closing

Dennis Collins:

uses the most filler words, verbal tics, and transcripts don't lie.

Dennis Collins:

And you know, and the transcripts that I pull, all the filler words are underlined.

Dennis Collins:

You can actually have them removed from the transcript.

Dennis Collins:

I leave them in.

Dennis Collins:

I want them to see it.

Dennis Collins:

Okay?

Dennis Collins:

It absolutely takes away from your credibility.

Dennis Collins:

Absolutely.

Dennis Collins:

There's no question about it.

Dennis Collins:

Rather than use a filler word, here's what you should do.

Dennis Collins:

Pause.

Dennis Collins:

Just pause.

Dennis Collins:

When you need to think, if you need to think before you speak.

Dennis Collins:

By the way, speakers who pause are viewed more positively.

Dennis Collins:

They are thought to be more competent than people who use filler words.

Dennis Collins:

So we gotta get rid of the, the, the ahs.

Dennis Collins:

Just think of that bell ringing every time you Yeah!

Dennis Collins:

That's it.

Dennis Collins:

Ah.

Dennis Collins:

Ding!

Dennis Collins:

Okay, so let's close this up.

Dennis Collins:

How about the hedge words?

Dennis Collins:

Get rid of them.

Dennis Collins:

Use definite words.

Dennis Collins:

When to admit a mistake.

Dennis Collins:

When you are perceived as competent, a small mistake once

Dennis Collins:

in a while is a good thing.

Dennis Collins:

Use emotional words, but emotional words with an uncertain load.

Dennis Collins:

Use the best story structure, which is the roller coaster, and get rid of

Dennis Collins:

verbal tics, and use the present tense.

Dennis Collins:

What do you think, Leah?

Dennis Collins:

There's seven tips.

Dennis Collins:

You can start being more confident and more persuasive today.

Leah Bumphry:

Absolutely.

Leah Bumphry:

And you know what?

Leah Bumphry:

The old, you remember the old joke that you just had to visualize people

Leah Bumphry:

naked when you're talking to them with a big group to have that confidence?

Leah Bumphry:

Then we don't have to do that because that's, that's

Leah Bumphry:

not comfortable for anybody.

Dennis Collins:

Uh, let me assure you that never worked for me.

Dennis Collins:

Well, I guess it depends on your audience.

Leah Bumphry:

Well, there you go.

Leah Bumphry:

That, that synchronicity, hey?

Dennis Collins:

Synchronicity.

Dennis Collins:

So what do you think, Leah?

Dennis Collins:

Does this, does this ring true?

Dennis Collins:

Do you think this will help our small business owners, our sales

Dennis Collins:

managers, our sales people?

Leah Bumphry:

I, I really believe it does it, it, it is, it all

Leah Bumphry:

comes back to wizard of ads.

Leah Bumphry:

org, right?

Leah Bumphry:

Wizard academy.

Leah Bumphry:

org.

Leah Bumphry:

I should say.

Leah Bumphry:

Wizard academy.

Leah Bumphry:

org.

Leah Bumphry:

The, the small business.

Leah Bumphry:

Yeah.

Leah Bumphry:

Well, our sponsor and our, our ability to have.

Leah Bumphry:

To direct our listeners to classes there that are very very specific

Leah Bumphry:

the I mean, I think of the young Writer's class where the help kids

Leah Bumphry:

become that much more confident

Dennis Collins:

I should have never mentioned that

Leah Bumphry:

You know what?

Leah Bumphry:

We're gonna we're gonna be regretting that I think my bell

Leah Bumphry:

sounded a little different Wow.

Dennis Collins:

What did you say that got belled?

Dennis Collins:

I don't think you deserve the bell,

Leah Bumphry:

Leah.

Leah Bumphry:

I think we're just going to power through it.

Dennis Collins:

Go ahead.

Dennis Collins:

Wizard Academy is, it's a must.

Dennis Collins:

If you haven't been there, go to wizardacademy.

Dennis Collins:

org.

Dennis Collins:

Do yourself a favor.

Dennis Collins:

Look at the lineup of 2024 classes.

Dennis Collins:

They've got a ton of them already on the books.

Dennis Collins:

Pick one that you like.

Dennis Collins:

Sign up.

Dennis Collins:

And go sign up early because the early birds get a beautiful accommodation

Dennis Collins:

on campus in Austin, Texas, right in here where the classes are held with

Dennis Collins:

food and drink and a wonderful time.

Dennis Collins:

So wizardacademy.

Dennis Collins:

org

Leah Bumphry:

and much like our podcast, it is everything you learn is

Leah Bumphry:

going to be based on science, but it comes with such a degree of heart that

Leah Bumphry:

when you go back to your real life.

Leah Bumphry:

Everything's going to be better.

Dennis Collins:

It will be.

Dennis Collins:

We guarantee it.

Dennis Collins:

Boom.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, that's it for this edition of Connect & Convert.

Dennis Collins:

We look forward to seeing you the next time.

Dennis Collins:

Stay tuned.

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