Dennis Collins and Leah Bumphrey discuss scientific research on how to speak persuasively and with confidence. They provide practical tips on word choice, admitting mistakes, using emotions and stories effectively, eliminating verbal fillers, and more to help listeners improve their communication skills.

Hello again, and welcome to Connect & Convert, Insider Strategies

for Small Business Sales Success, where our belief is, it's not about what

you learn, it's about what you do.

Hey, I'm Dennis Collins, and I'm joined today by my colleague, Leah Bumfrey.

Hi, Leah.

Hello, hello.

Hello.

And somewhere in the ether, Paul is there looking out for us.

I can just tell.

I can just tell.

Thank God.

I don't know if we could do this on our own.

In fact, no, I do know we couldn't.

You and I would be having a nice cup of coffee.

If we were in Canada, we'd be at Tim Hortons.

I don't know where we'd be in the States.

Would it be Starbucks?

We'd be just having a chat.

You don't have Starbucks up in Canada?

We do, but it doesn't have the same legendary

appeal as a Tim Hortons.

When you come see me up here and help me shovel snow, we'll, we'll talk.

Yeah, uh, don't hold your breath on that one.

I would love to see you, but how about July?

Okay.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

Speaking with confidence, Leah.

Speaking with confidence.

What does science have to tell us about being heard, understood, and influential?

I I don't know.

I was never a very confident speaker growing up.

You know, I, I ended up being a radio DJ and a host and all that behind the mic.

But were you a cop?

Were you a confident speaker?

I mean, I bet you were.

I bet you stood up at age seven and did speeches.

I did.

And I, I always loved it.

Uh, public speaking to me, it was just a whole connection with a

whole bunch of people all at once.

And I, I, I just was thrilled with it.

What I do know is anyone can learn to be a confident speaker.

That doesn't mean you're going to learn to love to public speak.

There's, there's a difference.

And for most of us in our, in our public that are in our, our business

lives, you have to learn to be confident because what is sales?

Being able to transfer confidence now.

I'm not talking about being fake and I'm not talking about no, you know

being there You know having to have this bold effervescent personality.

It's confidence can be quiet And it doesn't mean you're going to love

it, but you can learn how to do it.

Yes, you can.

So what if I told you that anyone can learn to speak with more confidence?

People are more likely to listen to you.

Do you want people to listen to you if you're in sales, if

you're a manager, a leader?

Hey, if you're a spouse, a husband, a wife, do you want

your kids to listen to you?

Well, guess what?

There are ways that you can become more persuasive.

It can be learned.

You want to be more certain, more confident, more self

assured, more knowledgeable.

Well, the scientists, again, you know, I always turn to science.

Leah is of, Leah is of the heart.

I am.

And I am of the science.

So we blend.

We blend.

It's a good combination.

I think it is.

But scientists have now researched this.

They've researched everything at one time or another.

And they have now defined the most powerful words.

And they have defined the fact that this skill can be learned

by choosing your words carefully.

You can increase your verbal power.

Do I need to say why this is important in sales?

That is how we make a living in sales.

With words.

So let's, uh, let me say first of all that all of the science that

we're gonna discuss in this episode is based on research conducted by

one of my favorite professors, Dr.

Jonah Berger, professor at the Wharton School, university of Pennsylvania.

He is a prolific author.

A well known and sought after speaker and a business consultant.

So this stuff is, the science part of this is coming from Jonah Berger.

Okay.

So Leah, have you ever tried listening to someone who kind of hedges?

Well, kind of, maybe somewhat, usually generally.

Have you ever heard somebody talk like that?

Maybe something, maybe around, maybe some kind of.

Absolutely.

And you know what?

You know right away what else is going on there.

Yeah.

Well, what else?

Yeah.

Hedging.

Well, the problem is people deduct that there's nothing going on there.

It lessens the impact.

It suggests that you're uncertain, that your ideas aren't worth considering.

So the first hint that I want to give today is if you find yourself

using those hedge words, forget them.

Definite words.

Definitely.

Clearly.

Obviously.

It's totally clear.

That projects confidence.

That makes it more easy and more likely that people will

listen to you and follow you.

What about this?

This is one that's debated over and over again, and I'd

love your opinion on this one.

Science has something to say about this, but I'd like to hear

what Leah thinks about this.

How about occasionally admitting I screwed up?

Oh, I can't, I messed up.

It's on me.

It's my fault.

How about that?

How does that help?

Doesn't that hinder communication?

Doesn't that make you look bad?

It becomes real.

Now that's if you really did screw up, not, not if you're,

you're making an affectation so that you seem more real people.

Let's say you really screwed up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean.

The.

The.

The.

It, when you are willing to do that, it actually makes the connection stronger.

And think about in personal life that, that's very true.

So much so, so much more in business because in business you

don't have a lot of times any kind of a relationship with someone.

If you can come forward and I, we've all been in those situations, human

error, something goes wrong, a mistake is made, the wrong part is ordered.

This this happened.

And I am so sorry, and that's not how I wanted to do it, but

I'm going to make it better.

It gives you the opportunity to forge a relationship.

If you're not willing to do that, it's, it's not a real conversation.

Well, yes, and science, here I go again, science

has something to say about that.

Absolutely what you said is correct.

Occasionally admitting a mistake.

negates the fact that you're nearly perfect, right?

It makes you more human.

But here is the twist.

There's a twist to this.

It only works if you're already perceived to be competent.

You see what I'm saying?

If you are perceived to be a loser, incompetent, okay, not

capable, admitting a mistake.

It only builds the case against you.

But if you are viewed as a person who is generally dependable and

competent, occasionally admitting mistake makes you approachable.

It makes you more vulnerable.

Okay.

But again, with that caveat.

And I would add to that, Dennis, if you're working with

someone else who made the mistake and you're the one having to tell the

client about it, telling them that it was Dennis that made the mistake.

It's the worst thing you can do.

I'm saying, you know what, Paul, that was not my fault.

It was Dennis that did it.

Don't, I'm sorry, I've worked with Dennis, I'm trying.

He keeps on and on and this happened, but I'm gonna fix it.

I love Dennis.

I end up looking, especially if there's no relationship there, I

look like someone passing the buck.

I'm kicking Dennis windows down.

I'm not willing to work as a team.

So there, there's some intricacies to being to the honesty, even if.

Dennis, even if you did mess up, I'm not going to say it was you.

Well, there's one exception to that.

Anything that gets screwed up on this podcast is Boomer's fault.

Okay.

So

you and I know it.

Yeah.

But don't tell him I said that.

I agree.

No, but you know what, what you're talking

about is the finger pointing.

Yes.

Finger pointing you, you, you, that never works.

Never works.

That is the worst thing you can do.

It's always me and I, I'm uncomfortable when you say that I'm uncomfortable

when you're late for the meeting.

You make me uncomfortable.

I'm not you.

I am uncomfortable when you don't abide by what we agreed to our agreements.

So how about emotional words?

That's a no brainer.

We know.

You don't need the science to know that emotional words and

concepts, they grab attention.

Okay.

Yep.

But here is another twist.

Maybe you already knew this, Leah, because you're a, a wonderful writer.

Emotion.

There are certain types of emotional words that get more attention than others.

Did you know that?

Well, I'm not surprised, but tell me more.

Okay.

How about emotional words that denote uncertainty work better

according to the scientists?

Words like unsettled, anxious, doubtful, unsure, okay?

Positive emotional words are good, but uncertain Emotional words are better.

Isn't that interesting?

And you know, that makes sense to me, because when

we feel uncertain, we're actually baring our soul a little bit more.

We're actually sharing something a little bit deeper.

At least when, when in, in this kind of an instance.

So it would grab attention.

People are not expecting that.

We've all walked into a store and it's an obvious commissioned

salesperson and everything looks absolutely fantastic on you.

And it's gorgeous.

Oh, it's perfect.

It fits you like a glove.

It looks fantastic.

And real women hate that as much as real men do.

But yet there are still those unreal type of salespeople that do that.

Now, I'm much more likely to buy the really fancy hat, not the fancy hat,

but the jacket from the salesperson that looks at one on me and goes, you know

what, I'm not sure about that one on you.

Let's try this.

Ah!

Yeah.

Because all of a sudden, she's sharing something with me that's

maybe not that comfortable.

Say, Leah, that looks doubtful on you.

And there's been those times, let me tell ya.

Or Leah, I'm anxious when I see you wearing that.

And again, we're kidding, but you get, of course, now here, here's

something that I need your help on.

You are, if anyone has read anything that Leah Bumfrey has written, you are lucky.

You're fortunate because she is a magnificent, inspiring writer.

Uh, if you, if you go to wizard of ads, partners, uh, our webpage.

You'll see her work featured on there under her real name, Leah Bumphrey.

But she's a great storyteller.

And so I'm gonna pose a question to you.

What story Tra ? Yeah, I Trajectory?

Yeah, you can do it.

There you go.

is the most persuasive.

What does science tell us?

Okay, there are three choices.

Straight line, no ups or downs, just straight to the point.

Second, negative up to a positive, and then down to a negative.

So, negative to positive, positive to negative.

Third choice, a roller coaster ride.

Frequent peaks and valleys, many ups and downs, boom, you're on.

It's a, it's a, it's almost a trick question because

you think of the word persuasive.

Okay, what story method is the most persuasive?

You would think the straight line.

You're here and I want you to go to here and I'm just shooting to kill.

I am telling you this is the way it is.

So that's our, our, our head or the, maybe the science dentist

would have us think it's this.

But in fact.

I don't believe that to be true.

I think when you're telling a story and you're trying to persuade someone, you

want them to hear what you're saying.

You want them to be part of the story.

You want them to visualize it.

So the up and down, the, the, the setting, the stage, the involving them,

getting them emotionally invested, having them visualize their own life,

their own first grade teacher, their own mailbox, whatever, whatever the

story is about is going to hook them.

I had, uh, editor ones that told me that that beginning hook that, that, that start

where you have them decide, yes, I want to know this and they're going to go a little

bit deeper and then it does a switch.

So they're going to go a little bit different.

And then, Oh, here's this different, that is going to persuade much more than just.

Telling them the story.

Well, Miss Lea, wehh always knew you were about the smartest

person in the room, which is always true.

But, what does the science say?

Okay?

It is somewhat counterintuitive.

As you would, as you said, first, the straight line, no ups or

downs, is probably the go to way that most people tell stories.

But it's not the one that's the most persuasive.

Ah.

It's the roller coaster, just as you, uh, illustrated, the ups and the downs.

That is the most persuasive story.

So when you're crafting a sales story or a story about your business, a

marketing story, use the ups and downs.

You know, maybe your origin story had some downs in it.

There were some bad times, right?

And all of a sudden things got great.

Everything was lovely.

And then all of a sudden, Oh, 2007, 2008 hit boom down again.

How do we recover from that?

That's the kind of story that people listen to and are persuaded by, I guess.

You're right on with that one.

But Dennis, when you think about it, we were talking at

the beginning about public speaking and whether you love it or hate it,

but the ability to do it confidently.

When you are talking to an audience and you are talking to that one person in

there and you pick that person and you see them engaged in what it is that you're

saying, that builds the confidence because when you are connected to all that energy

in a room, I don't care if you're talking to two people or you're talking to 200 or

2000, those people If they are listening to you, if you have them coming on this

ride with you, there's only you and them individually in the story and in the room.

And that is how you become a confident speaker and that is how

you persuade and that is how you form connections with your listeners.

Wow, you just gave a brilliant example of

synchronicity, brain synchronicity.

Uh, that is exactly what happens.

Let's say that the experiment that I'm thinking of that, uh,

the Wharton professors have done is about a movie trailer, okay?

And they put groups of people in different theaters and they play

different movie trailers for them, right?

And the ones that resonate most are brief, emotional, to the point.

And short.

Okay.

They're not long winded trailers and guess which one they try others that

are longer, louder, not as compelling.

guess which one wins, the one that creates brain synchronicity, they put

them in an fMRI machine and the brains are synchronized, which means that is

the highest level of communication.

So you just perfectly described that.

I hope our listeners will go back and play that over because she said it as well

or better than any scientist ever said.

Thank you folks!

Okay!

Next topic, turn past into present.

Okay, what does that all mean?

Well, a lot of times we use a past tense.

Well, this thing was true at some point in the past, the solution worked

well, uh, something, um, that we found this to be true in the past.

doesn't work as well as this solution works.

Well, not worked well, or what you find today, not what you found.

Isn't that interesting?

Present tense suggests action, doing something, some stability,

something more enduring than something that used to happen.

So put your past.

Isn't that something, put the past tense in the past and use action words.

I am enjoying our conversations.

I'm not hoping to enjoy our conversations.

I am enjoying them.

If I, if I say I'm hoping to, that leaves you going, Oh, is she hoping

that that sounds going to be good?

Is it?

What, what, what?

Or she did before she doesn't anymore?

No, I am.

We are wired, but we're wired to think of.

What is as being what always will be and, and where we are.

And that is so important because that's all our brain understands.

Present tense, you got it, the now.

Okay.

So let's wrap this up into a little new year's gift, put a bow on it.

How can you speak with more confidence?

Forget the hedge words, forget about the kind of, the maybes, the

usuallys, the generallys, et cetera.

Okay.

Uh, forget.

Oh, I forgot one.

The verbal tics.

Forget the verbal tics.

Uh, I, I, have you ever been a member of Toastmasters by any chance?

I've taken some classes, but not a member.

No.

Okay.

Well, I've been a member for years and they have a little ceremony.

I guess you can call it ritual that whenever you say a tick word, they ring a

bell right in the middle of your speech.

You could be given the most serious.

speech you've ever given in your life.

And if you say, um, er, filler words, ding, the bell goes off

right in the middle of your speech.

Now you don't stop speaking.

It just to warn you that you said a filler word.

Okay.

How about recorded sales calls?

As you know, I listened to hundreds of hours of actual recorded sales calls.

I will say this.

The person in this particular group that is doing the worst at closing

uses the most filler words, verbal tics, and transcripts don't lie.

And you know, and the transcripts that I pull, all the filler words are underlined.

You can actually have them removed from the transcript.

I leave them in.

I want them to see it.

Okay?

It absolutely takes away from your credibility.

Absolutely.

There's no question about it.

Rather than use a filler word, here's what you should do.

Pause.

Just pause.

When you need to think, if you need to think before you speak.

By the way, speakers who pause are viewed more positively.

They are thought to be more competent than people who use filler words.

So we gotta get rid of the, the, the ahs.

Just think of that bell ringing every time you Yeah!

That's it.

Ah.

Ding!

Okay, so let's close this up.

How about the hedge words?

Get rid of them.

Use definite words.

When to admit a mistake.

When you are perceived as competent, a small mistake once

in a while is a good thing.

Use emotional words, but emotional words with an uncertain load.

Use the best story structure, which is the roller coaster, and get rid of

verbal tics, and use the present tense.

What do you think, Leah?

There's seven tips.

You can start being more confident and more persuasive today.

Absolutely.

And you know what?

The old, you remember the old joke that you just had to visualize people

naked when you're talking to them with a big group to have that confidence?

Then we don't have to do that because that's, that's

not comfortable for anybody.

Uh, let me assure you that never worked for me.

Well, I guess it depends on your audience.

Well, there you go.

That, that synchronicity, hey?

Synchronicity.

So what do you think, Leah?

Does this, does this ring true?

Do you think this will help our small business owners, our sales

managers, our sales people?

I, I really believe it does it, it, it is, it all

comes back to wizard of ads.

org, right?

Wizard academy.

org.

I should say.

Wizard academy.

org.

The, the small business.

Yeah.

Well, our sponsor and our, our ability to have.

To direct our listeners to classes there that are very very specific

the I mean, I think of the young Writer's class where the help kids

become that much more confident

I should have never mentioned that

You know what?

We're gonna we're gonna be regretting that I think my bell

sounded a little different Wow.

What did you say that got belled?

I don't think you deserve the bell,

Leah.

I think we're just going to power through it.

Go ahead.

Wizard Academy is, it's a must.

If you haven't been there, go to wizardacademy.

org.

Do yourself a favor.

Look at the lineup of 2024 classes.

They've got a ton of them already on the books.

Pick one that you like.

Sign up.

And go sign up early because the early birds get a beautiful accommodation

on campus in Austin, Texas, right in here where the classes are held with

food and drink and a wonderful time.

So wizardacademy.

org

and much like our podcast, it is everything you learn is

going to be based on science, but it comes with such a degree of heart that

when you go back to your real life.

Everything's going to be better.

It will be.

We guarantee it.

Boom.

Okay, that's it for this edition of Connect & Convert.

We look forward to seeing you the next time.

Stay tuned.