In this episode of Orange Hatter, we explore the fascinating connection between Bitcoin and energy with Lisa, an expert in energy trading and finance.

This episode is the complete conversation with Lisa, a collation of previous Orange Hatter episodes 71-73.

1: Lisa's Background Lisa traded natural gas for big companies

2: Financial Services Lisa discusses her involvement in Bitcoin-related financial services, including Unchained. She hints at an upcoming role.

3: Real-World Impact Lisa explains how Bitcoin mining can make energy companies more efficient. She gives an example of a Texas power producer paying the grid to take excess power, showing how Bitcoin mining can help.

4: Aligning Incentives Lisa discusses the alignment of incentives between energy and Bitcoin mining, highlighting the benefits, including mitigating flared gas.

5: Why Should You Care? Lisa answers why everyday people should care. Efficient energy markets mean lower costs for consumers.

6: Supporting Free Markets Lisa concludes by emphasizing the importance of supporting efficient markets for the benefit of all.

To reach Lisa, email Info@CustodiaBank.com. https://custodiabank.com/press/custodia-bank-welcomes-lisa-hough/

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

Mentioned in this episode:

Free Market Kids Short

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Aleia Free Market Kids Sponsorship FULL

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Hey, everybody.

2

Welcome to Orange Hatter.

3

Today, you're listening to a

conversation I had with Lisa.

4

Lisa, welcome to the show.

5

So excited to have you here.

6

I spoke to your daughter.

7

Ella, not too long ago.

8

And she spoke so highly of you.

9

I just had to have you come on the show.

10

So welcome.

11

Thank you so much for giving your

time and sharing your story tonight.

12

Lisa: Thank you, Tali Well Ella gets

in trouble if she doesn't say nice

13

things about her mother, so I'm glad

that I've sufficiently scared her

14

into singing my praises on your show.

15

Good for her.

16

Tali: She did such a fabulous job.

17

I introduced my daughter to her and I

hope they will become long time friends.

18

So we'll just jump right in if you

don't mind, share a little bit about

19

your background with our audience

so they can have understanding

20

of where you're coming from.

21

Lisa: Yeah, well, thank

you again for having me.

22

So I I spend most of my time

in the Bitcoin space at the

23

intersection of two key areas.

24

First being energy, because

that is my background.

25

A long, long time ago in another

universe I traded natural gas

26

and I worked for a lot of big

companies Enron being one of them.

27

And a couple of utilities, a

couple of big producers, so I feel

28

like I speak the energy language

and I sit right in Houston.

29

So, you know, energy capital of the world.

30

Also, what I like to call the Bitcoin

mining capital of the world, even

31

though it may not be, and then the

other thing that I have been working on

32

lately is the financial services aspect.

33

My first Bitcoin company

was Unchained in Austin.

34

Many people are familiar with Unchained.

35

They help people secure

generational wealth and hold

36

their own private keys for Bitcoin.

37

And then I was with a startup that

was trying to buy a bank and offer

38

financial services to Bitcoin companies.

39

Unfortunately, our startup

didn't get off the ground.

40

So I am doing some consulting,

but also probably announcing a

41

next role in the coming week.

42

So anyway, my interest sits firmly

in the energy section and the banking

43

section and, and helping people.

44

Have conversations really on

specifics of how Bitcoin mining

45

can help improve efficiency and is

a creative for energy companies.

46

And if you like, I mean, I'm happy

to give a couple of maybe real world

47

examples to just paint the picture

for folks as to what that really looks

48

like, because sometimes you hear these

words and, and you're like, okay, well,

49

yeah, people say that it's good for.

50

For energy companies, but I

don't really understand why.

51

So, all right, you're nodding.

52

So , I'll give you a couple of examples.

53

So there , in Texas, we

our grid is the ERCOT grid.

54

It's the electric reliability council

of Texas and ERCOT manages the projects

55

that are coming on and it is their

mandate to provide reliable and efficient

56

energy to all those that need it.

57

So.

58

As you can imagine, there's a lot

of scramble to create power to put

59

onto ERCOT, and there's an increasing

push for renewables, it seems like

60

everybody is ringing the bell for

climate change and for wind and solar

61

and, and I don't want to come off

that I'm not pro Renewable energy.

62

I just think that it is a little

bit unfounded to think that we

63

will affect change, you know, by

64

I don't see it happening and really

for a couple of reasons, but I'm going

65

to give you an example of how Bitcoin

mining can affect an energy company.

66

And then I'm going to circle back and

I'm going to give you an example of the

67

alignment of incentives between energy

companies and Bitcoin mining companies.

68

So the example that I would give

you is there's a relatively large

69

power producer that's based in Texas.

70

Although they have power plants

throughout the United States, but

71

they're, they're based in Texas and.

72

Non zero percent of the time, and I,

and I've heard the number estimated

73

to be about 4 percent of the time

this company pays ERCOT the grid.

74

To take excess power.

75

So this company is running natural

gas power plants and and often they're

76

combined cycle plants so they're

using, you know, at least two different

77

types of fuel to make a plant run.

78

And it's more cost effective or it's more

operationally efficient for them to keep

79

running rather than shut a plant down.

80

So they'd rather just pay ERCOT

to manage the load and let ERCOT

81

distribute you know, power as they

are able, but, but this power producer

82

pays someone to take power, right?

83

So when you and I think about

Apple, 0 percent of the time, they

84

pay someone to take their iPhone.

85

Right.

86

Like 0 percent of the time McDonald's

pays us to take a hamburger.

87

It makes no sense for a huge entity

that makes, you know, that is in

88

the power generation business to

pay the grid to take their power.

89

And so, you know, it would

be uniquely beneficial.

90

And in fact, these guys are in

discussions trying to make this work.

91

They've put a team together to To

investigate and go through the required

92

process to, you know, spin up Bitcoin

mining in order to absorb that power.

93

So real world example, that's one real

world example of, of where that's helpful.

94

A lot of people talk about so this is

example number two, a lot of people

95

talk about flared gas and, and how

Bitcoin helps mitigate flared gas.

96

And yes, that's absolutely true.

97

It's a fantastic benefit.

98

However, there's also a lot of economic

efficiency that can be gained in

99

a field where you're not flaring.

100

So I have a Bitcoin miner

that's here in Texas.

101

He goes by Amalgamated Sludge

on Twitter, same as Dan.

102

Dan has a property out in New Mexico

where he's got about 40 wells and

103

has the ability to direct that gas

that's coming out of the ground

104

into the Waja gathering system.

105

Waja is a gathering system and a

pipeline system that's out in New Mexico.

106

At times that Waha gas because

natural gas is priced by location.

107

So it's, there's, I don't

know how many pipelines.

108

Typically when you're trading

you're trading a specific region.

109

So my first job I was trading

in the Gulf Coast and then I

110

moved to trade in the Northeast.

111

And then I, at the end of my career, I

managed the entire, you know, East Coast.

112

So Gulf Coast assets.

113

Okay.

114

All the way up to, you know, kind

of New England assets, but in Dan's

115

case, Dan is selling into what

at times is a depressed market.

116

So what does depressed look like?

117

Well, sometimes gas on Waha is

negative, which means that the

118

producer that has expended capital

and energy and has site technicians.

119

Who are pulling natural

gas out of the ground.

120

They're actually having to

pay someone to take it away.

121

Right.

122

The other alternative would be to put

it into some sort of a storage facility,

123

but in Dan's case, he doesn't have that.

124

Like many people don't have storage.

125

So you're really a price taker.

126

You're, you're at the mercy of

whatever the market calls for.

127

Now, at times, WAHA this, you know, in

the last 12 months I think normally

128

it's, it trades pretty on par with

the Henry hub and Henry hub is the

129

delivery point for natural gas futures.

130

It's the largest pipeline it's it's

like kind of the, the namesake, if you

131

will, most people are familiar with it.

132

Typically trades a little bit below

or, 10 cents below 10 cents above the

133

Henry hub, but when demand is high, it

could trade dollars above Henry hub.

134

Right.

135

And in that case, Dan's really happy.

136

Dan sells all the gas that

he can make into Waha.

137

But when demand on Waha is very low, why

would you pay someone to take natural

138

resources that you've spent money to get?

139

Right?

140

So what did Dan do?

141

Dan coordinated some capital got creative

and built a Bitcoin mining site, which

142

he has completely bootstrapped himself.

143

You know, he's got buildings

and bought generators and

144

bought Bitcoin mining machines.

145

So now he has the option

to economically dispatch.

146

He can either send gas into the

pipeline or he can mine Bitcoin.

147

So I'll pause there in

case you have a question.

148

Tali: I have a question for people

who are not very familiar with

149

the way energy is bought and sold.

150

So for an everyday person, why

would someone like Dan who has

151

a need to dispose of his excess

energy by paying somebody else,

152

why would I care about that?

153

So let's say I'm just a

regular, middle class person,

154

in my mind, energy companies

have a lot of money.

155

And so if they have to pay someone else

to take away excess energy, why would I

156

care that he is able to turn that energy

into something useful like Bitcoin mining?

157

Lisa: Well.

158

Let me just start by saying

you don't have to care, right?

159

You don't have to care about that

any more than you have to care about

160

the dry cleaner that you have in your

neighborhood having an increased price

161

of supplies or you know, lower demand

from their customers because of COVID.

162

Right?

163

You don't have to care about

Dan and Dan's business.

164

You don't need to care about the dry

cleaner and the dry cleaners business.

165

But, I guess where my interest truly

lies is in In the support of free

166

markets and markets are efficient.

167

So markets optimize for supply and demand.

168

And so you don't have to care, but

you know, I don't know me myself.

169

I'm really actually pretty excited when

I drive down into kind of like the bowels

170

of all the refineries and stuff that are

South of Houston, because I feel like

171

that's the heartbeat of America, right?

172

There's fuel that's coming on shore.

173

And that fuel provides me you know,

safety and well being and health and

174

, there's a huge chunk of the population

globally that lives in energy poverty

175

and energy poverty is defined as access

to less than four hours of energy a

176

day, four hours of energy a day or less.

177

Right?

178

Like if you and I lived in a

situation where we had access to

179

power our lights, our toaster, our

God forbid, our cell phone charger,

180

like we'd be screaming, right?

181

There'd be riots in the streets.

182

And in fact, when, when there is massive

power outages at times, there are riots.

183

So we don't necessarily

have to care about Dan.

184

It does.

185

support an ecosystem of wealth

and prosperity and safety.

186

And we don't even have to go into the

whole, you know, where I think energy

187

is key to our own national security.

188

Sure.

189

Energy production leads to our national

security and how Bitcoin ties into that.

190

Which I think is an entire, another rabbit

hole, but You don't need to care about

191

Dan, but I am sure that you and all of

your listeners want to go turn your light

192

switch on and have it work or plug your

phone in and have your phone get juice

193

or, you know, your kid wants to play

their video game and they want it to work.

194

You have, daughters that are in school.

195

I have a daughter in school.

196

She needs to be able to log on and

do her homework or research a paper

197

or, write code for a project.

198

I mean, I don't know, like, we all have

our reasons for wanting to use energy and

199

that's a whole another rabbit hole of,

like, who should get to decide what energy

200

use is is worthy or not, like, Right,

like, we live in America, free markets

201

rule, we should all be in support of that.

202

Tali: Here's my very layman understanding

of how it all works and the reason

203

for that question I just threw at

you which is that it's actually to

204

everyone's benefit that energy isn't

just flared into the air or having

205

to be paid to process the excess

because they're not doing it for free.

206

You think it doesn't impact you,

but it does because they're gonna

207

get that money somewhere and it

probably is coming from your bill.

208

So my understanding is if they're able

to more predictably sell or utilize the

209

energy that they have acquired, then the

savings is passed along to the customers,

210

at least that's the way I understand it

211

Lisa: right.

212

Yeah, no, you're, you're, you're 100

percent right, and I think that's why

213

I'm using Dan's name here because I feel

like when we can identify people, right,

214

it's not just this, like, nebulous topic.

215

I mean, there is an individual who owns

land that he has built buildings on

216

and he employs people to work at so

that natural resources can come out of

217

the ground, go into a pipeline, which

feed into a power generation facility,

218

which feeds the grid so that Lisa and

Tali can turn on their light switch.

219

Right.

220

And the more power that's feeding into

those grids, the lower our prices are.

221

Tali: Yeah, it goes back

to incentives for sure.

222

So you came from energy trading and

now you are full time in Bitcoin.

223

So I'm very curious about that

journey because you didn't

224

find Bitcoin very long ago.

225

Is that correct?

226

Correct.

227

It wasn't that long

ago, and you are all in.

228

Lisa: I am irresponsibly

long involvement of Bitcoin.

229

That is true.

230

I...

231

It's like eat, pray,

love Bitcoin's all I do.

232

Yeah, I got into Bitcoin in 2018.

233

I had a massive change in my life

and I had money in a managed fund

234

with an investment manager and he

had me in 26 different mutual funds.

235

And I just remember getting my

statement one day going like this

236

isn't going to work for me anymore.

237

Like, I don't feel like

I'm getting any value here.

238

This is a lot of work.

239

I'm paying this guy 2

percent or whatever it was.

240

Like, I can do better than this I

think a little bit of it was like,

241

okay, I can day trade my own account.

242

I did get paid to day trade.

243

I traded commodities, which I would

argue are harder to trade than equities.

244

So I'll manage my own money.

245

So I started this journey of

what do I want to invest in?

246

Well, I knew I wanted to be long

energy companies and I knew I wanted

247

to be long technology companies.

248

So this is like early 2018 at the outset

249

day trade Amazon back then, right?

250

Like it would open at one price and go up

and , I would probably make, I don't know,

251

two or 3, 000 in a 30 minute time frame.

252

And then I would . Not look at

the market again all day and be

253

like, okay, I made 2, 000 today.

254

Yay.

255

It didn't take me very

long of doing that going.

256

This is a lot of risk This

is actually a lot of work.

257

I'm creating a huge tax event every time

I do this like this is not smart Right.

258

It really, it really didn't

take me that long to go.

259

I'm a lot simpler of a person than

wanting to manage a portfolio and

260

study technology stocks all day.

261

Like, this is not what I want to

do with my life, but I knew I was

262

really interested in technology.

263

And I could see that there, you

know, like everybody else, right.

264

You could see that there

was a shift coming.

265

Like we were in the midst of

a technological revolution.

266

So I found a magazine.

267

I don't know how I saw.

268

I think I was in an airport.

269

I stumbled upon it.

270

The MIT tech review.

271

I still take it today.

272

I think it's a phenomenal publication

and they published a list for

273

many years in a row of the top

technology companies of the year.

274

So I, I built a very pedestrian

spreadsheet to try to look for

275

similarities and signal, you

know, who are the seed round

276

investors of these companies?

277

What was the technology, right?

278

It was like genomics, AI

social media consumer related,

279

you know, whatever, right?

280

Like this started their list

281

So I started looking at those companies

and what really struck me as interesting

282

was this word blockchain and I was

like, oh, wait, if I buy blockchain, I

283

am going to be financially set, right?

284

Like, I'm going to invest in

blockchain, blockchain is the future.

285

Well, I cringe saying those words now

286

I realized that, you know, and I'm no

technology expert, this is not financial

287

advice, but if anybody tells me they're

interested in blockchain, not Bitcoin,

288

that's like saying I'm interested

in copper wire, not electricity.

289

Right?

290

Like, you've missed it.

291

You're totally wrong.

292

But nevertheless, I kept

Googling blockchain.

293

How do I buy blockchain?

294

And I came upon Bitcoin, started studying

some and Ethereum and, you know, all the

295

other sort of alt coins that we regard

as just, I regard as just garbage now.

296

But nevertheless, that was my journey.

297

I started studying technology

stocks, studying blockchain.

298

Day trading all of the, you know,

like 20 tokens, like a complete degen.

299

And again, it like, didn't

take me very long to go this is

300

the biggest waste of my time.

301

I don't want to sit on Twitter and watch

the alerts for whatever token, like, this

302

is just, something's not right in Denmark.

303

I am going to stop.

304

I'm not going to do this.

305

And I just kept my Bitcoin.

306

I sold everything else and I

kept a little bit of Bitcoin.

307

I didn't have a huge

allocation at that time.

308

I had most of my assets in Amazon and

Apple and I don't know, probably like

309

10 or 15 energy companies from Kinder

Morgan to Momentum, I mean, just

310

a whole bunch of pipeline companies

and kind of midstream companies.

311

So anyway, so from, that's 2018.

312

And I don't know, by about 2020, I just

got further and further down the Bitcoin

313

rabbit hole and I had moved from the

East coast back to back to Houston.

314

And I thought, well, I'll go back

to work in the energy business.

315

And, I just started talking with

folks and having conversations

316

and I was speaking with an oil

and gas person one day who said.

317

Yeah, you should really be

a consultant for Bitcoin.

318

You should explain Bitcoin to people.

319

And he was actually really kidding.

320

He wanted to date me and he

didn't want to talk about Bitcoin.

321

So he wanted me to go talk

about Bitcoin with other people.

322

So he was like, you know, you should

go talk about this during the day.

323

So we can talk about

something else at night.

324

And it was really funny and he was right.

325

I should be talking about

Bitcoin all the time.

326

So I spun up a deck and I started telling

people that I was a Bitcoin educator and

327

that I could help them understand Bitcoin.

328

And, that's how I got here.

329

I got hired by a Bitcoin company.

330

I went to work for Unchained.

331

I went to the Texas

Blockchain Council event.

332

I met Parker Lewis.

333

We had a couple of conversations

and two weeks later, I was working

334

at Unchained and I've been working,

full time in Bitcoin ever since.

335

And just to bring that all home,

I mean, I work in Bitcoin because

336

I think it's reachable, it's

understandable, it's knowable.

337

It's accessible to everyone.

338

You don't need to have an MBA.

339

You don't need to have

graduated from college.

340

You don't need to have any special

skills or you know, you don't need to

341

be an analyst of any type to understand

that it is the most scarce asset

342

on earth and scarcity drives value.

343

And if you can really just

understand that one concept.

344

You can understand why Bitcoin

over time will become the most

345

valuable asset on earth and why it

is such a vortex for value, right?

346

It's like sucking value out

of every other asset class.

347

And the market cap of Bitcoin is

growing, but what's most exciting

348

to me is that the number of

users on the network are growing.

349

So, as Alex Gladstein has said

in his piece, multiple pieces,

350

it's not number go up technology.

351

It's freedom go up technology.

352

Tali: So when you first came across

Bitcoin, as part of your general

353

interest in blockchain technology,

when you're doing your research, what

354

set it apart from the other so called

shit coins now That made you really

355

open your eyes and go wait this is

the only one that I want to focus on

356

Lisa: There's no marketing

team and there's no CEO, right?

357

It just is what it is.

358

It's code.

359

It's pure.

360

There's no gimmicks.

361

There's no sales team.

362

There's nobody collecting 2 percent

a year to manage your assets.

363

Right.

364

It just is what it is.

365

It's the way to, own a more beautiful

proper form of property than Malibu

366

beachfront property or name,

whatever you think is you know, it's

367

like owning the Rocky Mountains.

368

It's, it's like this majestic, pure,

unpolluted asset, you know, no matter

369

how many of us try to screw it up.

370

Right.

371

Like us, like the collective us of

people creating products, I mean, I

372

really am appreciative of BlackRock.

373

I think that their leadership and stepping

into the spaces is huge and will be

374

huge for people touching this asset.

375

And , it's been a long road,

the mainstream media has not

376

been a friend to, to Bitcoin.

377

Warren Buffett has not

been a friend of Bitcoin.

378

There've been a lot of negative

narratives that have kept good

379

people out of this asset class,

380

Tali: yeah there's definitely a lot of

misunderstanding surrounding bitcoin

381

and Now that Black Rock and other

companies are proposing the ETFs.

382

Can you explain?

383

Since you're background is in finance

what the difference is between the Bitcoin

384

that you hold and an ETF for our audience?

385

Lisa: So Bitcoin is a

physical bearer asset.

386

And what that means is that you can

actually physically take possession of

387

the asset and be in complete ownership

of the asset without a third party.

388

And as you know, and probably many people

in your audience knows, but for those

389

that don't private keys are the asset.

390

Bitcoin lives on the blockchain.

391

Bitcoin does not live in a

hardware device or signing device.

392

Right.

393

It although people often think that

those things are that is the asset

394

and if you lose that, that signing

device or that hardware device, right.

395

It kind of looks like your key fob.

396

I, I think it looks like my key

fob and the way that I equate it to

397

people is that so if I have my, my

key to my car and I press the unlock

398

button, it is transmitting a code to

my car that allows My car to unlock.

399

And when my key is inside my

car, it allows my car to start.

400

Right.

401

So you would agree that

that's a code inside that fob.

402

If I lose that fob, have

I lost my asset, my car?

403

No, I can go down to the dealership

and pay the dealership 350 or whatever

404

ridiculous price it is to replace that

key fob, but they will load the code

405

into a new key fob for me, and I will

drive down the road mad, but I will be

406

driving down the road again in my car.

407

So those hardware devices, those

hardware, those signing devices.

408

look like a key fob.

409

And what they do is they, they hold your

seed phrase or they hold your code so

410

that when you use that and access Bitcoin,

so let's say you're like an unchained

411

client or a Casa client, you have a multi

sig collaborative custody agreement.

412

And you're signing a transaction, right?

413

Like it's got the code in it.

414

It makes it easy so that you don't

have to punch in all the digits, but

415

if you lose your hardware device, as

long as you have the digits written

416

down, you still own the asset.

417

So in an ETF like that BlackRock and

basically every other financial services

418

firm in the world will eventually

offer it is a wrapped form of Bitcoin.

419

And what that means to you is that you may

hold air quote Bitcoin in your retirement

420

account or in your whatever account

it is within Fidelity or BlackRock.

421

But you don't hold those keys.

422

Someone else holds those keys.

423

You have essentially price

exposure to the asset, but you

424

don't actually own the asset.

425

So, I'm delighted that

BlackRock is doing it.

426

I'm delighted that That other

financial services firms are going

427

to help people touch Bitcoin.

428

I would just offer to folks that,

you know, know the difference.

429

It's fine, I guess, to own inside of

BlackRock, but, you know, I, I think about

430

Bitcoin, like part of the beauty of it is

431

when people are walking out of Germany

and they're going into Poland, or they're

432

going into like, they're escaping Germany.

433

You can visualize what those people look

like they're in their winter coats and

434

their pockets and their clothes are just

stuffed with gold and their candlesticks

435

and all their silverware and everything

of value is stuffed in their pockets,

436

and they're crossing a border, but

with Bitcoin, you need your 12 words.

437

And you can cross a border and have a

hundred percent of your wealth, right?

438

Or a hundred percent of what you've

got invested in Bitcoin, right?

439

Like nobody can take it from you.

440

And I mean, some people say that they

memorize their 12 words and then they

441

feel like, you know, they can cross any

border without, you know, essentially

442

they can cross without anything in

their pockets at all and get to the

443

next country, buy a phone, download a

Bitcoin wallet and put the 12 words.

444

And there's your net worth.

445

Like it's kind of miraculous.

446

Tali: I love that

visualization with the key fob.

447

I've never heard that before.

448

It's such a perfect analogy.

449

It's so easy to visualize what it is.

450

There's a lot of, I think, confusion

with the chosen word to describe

451

something like when they say

hardware wallet, what is that?

452

You know, but I love that.

453

I love that imagery of the

fob that really makes sense.

454

Thank you for sharing that.

455

So I, I was going through your

LinkedIn to see about your posts

456

and you said something about how you

like to combine sailing and Bitcoin.

457

Talk to us a little bit about that.

458

Lisa: Oh, that was an article that was

not mine that, but that was an article.

459

I think it was in from

Bitcoin magazine or something.

460

I try to really be an advocate for

folks that are writing and folks that

461

are actively working in the space.

462

So I like to share articles stuff

that I find interesting and also

463

just to keep, you know, I'm on

LinkedIn because I want to reach

464

people that aren't in our community.

465

And I actually, I probably get, I don't

know, 10 direct messages a day from

466

people who say, I heard you on a podcast.

467

I heard you on Tali's podcast.

468

I heard you on whatever you

said, you'd talk to me about

469

Bitcoin or Bitcoin mining.

470

Can we connect?

471

And I absolutely love that because

There are people in all sorts of

472

industries who are trying to touch

Bitcoin and they just, it's, it's not

473

like I'm giving them a hand up, but

like they need a way to touch Bitcoin.

474

And so if I can be a tangible

representation to somebody of like, here,

475

let me point you in the right direction.

476

You should go talk to these

five people, or you should read

477

this book, or you should like.

478

I feel like that's what I'm here for, just

to facilitate you know, just, I want to

479

see the growth of this, of this industry.

480

I feel like I work for Bitcoin.

481

It fills me with purpose and joy, and

it's a privilege to have each and every

482

one of those conversations and really

hear what other people's journeys are.

483

I mean, it's really, it's exactly

what you're doing right here.

484

You're asking me what my journey is,

and that's what I do every day when

485

I talk to people that I've talked to

strangers that I've met on LinkedIn.

486

Tali: Yeah, I really appreciate that

you're on LinkedIn, because sometimes it

487

feels a little bit on the Twitter space

where it's almost like an echo chamber.

488

We're just saying stuff to each other.

489

So I really appreciate what

you're doing on LinkedIn.

490

I got excited when I saw that because

and I was looking at it really because

491

you do repost a lot of things and I was

like, I just need to make sure that this

492

actually hers because sometimes the

repost word is really, really small.

493

But I was so sure it was you.

494

Sorry about that.

495

Lisa: I, so I do sail.

496

I spent a lot of my life sailing.

497

Ella is an amazing sailor.

498

She's sailed competitively.

499

Her dad has sailed around the world.

500

I mean, he's like off

the charts, but Yeah.

501

Unfortunately, right now I live

in a concrete jungle in Houston

502

and I just count my lucky stars

that I get to talk about Bitcoin.

503

Unfortunately, I'm not, not on a sailboat

too much, but but I saw that article

504

and I, I thought the graphic that the

magazine included, especially with that

505

article was, was great and eye catching.

506

And it did garner a lot of comments.

507

And again, I don't post for engagement.

508

I post because I want people

to come into this arena.

509

I want them to bring their businesses

and their thought leadership , into

510

Bitcoin so that we can push this further.

511

Tali: Yeah, that's what I love about

talking to all these different women.

512

They all have such different backgrounds.

513

They come into this space with

their own expertise and viewpoints.

514

we're all different people

and bitcoins for everybody.

515

And so just to be able to hear

how everyone is applying Bitcoin

516

in their own lives is wonderful.

517

For example, one mom said that's her

saving vehicle for her kid's college fund.

518

Another one is for her retirement,

and then there are a couple of

519

them just actively trying to orange

pill the merchants in their city.

520

And you know that they're

taking it upon themselves.

521

They have nothing to gain.

522

They're just sharing good news.

523

So this has been just

really fabulous to witness.

524

So the people who reach out to you on

LinkedIn, have you seen any common

525

trend or type of people or reason?

526

When they come and contact

you and talk about Bitcoin.

527

Lisa: I would say regrettably it's

mostly men, I wish that it was, I mean,

528

I'm super happy to talk to men, but

it's mostly men in the energy space

529

that want to figure out how to get

into the Bitcoin space, or they want.

530

They're in the real estate space or they

work for I actually get quite a few people

531

from, from the big banks that reach out to

me and they want to have a conversation.

532

Yeah, I, I wish and I, you know

what, actually, I think that's just

533

a reflection of who's on LinkedIn.

534

I think a lot of women aren't on LinkedIn

or you know, I wasn't on LinkedIn

535

until I started working in Bitcoin.

536

I, not my entire life.

537

Like I just didn't.

538

Like wasn't within my realm and I feel

maybe like I've, maybe like LinkedIn

539

is a thing of the past, but then I keep

using it and it's not, you know, like

540

it's, it's a very active, vibrant space

and I get asked to speak at I've spoken

541

at universities, I'm involved with

some symposiums restructuring groups.

542

It's law firms, investment banking

teams, and they're on LinkedIn.

543

So I am happy to continue to publish

, content and links to stuff because the

544

sooner more people adopt Bitcoin, just

leads to a whole bunch of good outcomes

545

for everybody around the world, right?

546

It isn't number go up,

it's, it's freedom go up.

547

And it's getting out of the censorship

circle that we're in, and it's getting

548

out of the human trafficking circle

that we're in, and it's getting

549

out of this this, this complete

doom that lurks over our cities.

550

I mean, I was just in Austin for

BitBlockBoom last weekend, and I

551

mean, just, like, the number of

people that were sleeping in the

552

streets and strung out on drugs,

like, that's because the money is bad.

553

Right?

554

It's it's the money is bad.

555

Our money is broken.

556

Our schools are broken.

557

We need to shake up the extra sketch,

forget everything that has become a

558

socialized norm and go back to basics.

559

Right.

560

One ingredient food.

561

I don't want to get off on a Bitcoin

tangent, but like we eat garbage.

562

We watch garbage.

563

So our lives are garbage.

564

And I think, at least for me, like getting

into Bitcoin, it's like you really I

565

don't know, you, you see how much better

things can be and you're so hopeful.

566

I mean, I, I used to really

worry, Tali, honestly that I

567

would be living under a bridge.

568

I was like, okay, well, I, I

have some money, but not a lot.

569

And will it last for my lifetime?

570

Because in my family, like people

live to be in their mid nineties.

571

And I just thought, I don't know

how I'm going to have enough money

572

to live into my mid nineties.

573

And when you look at the statistics of an

everyday person, like very little savings.

574

You know, inflation is 14%.

575

I mean, even though they say it's

five or seven, it's probably 14, 20%.

576

I mean, it's very, very high.

577

If you just look at the cost of goods

over the last 50 years, I mean, why

578

does the price of goods of stuff go up?

579

You know, like.

580

Why?

581

It goes up because of inflation,

not because the hamburger

582

got a whole lot better.

583

So when you're in Bitcoin, I mean for

me, I just, it's completely changed

584

my mind on like, all right, I'm gonna

choose health as a lifestyle, right?

585

I'm gonna choose exercise as a lifestyle.

586

I'm gonna choose eating well as

a lifestyle because I want to be

587

around, I want to see how society can

transform itself into something better.

588

Tali: Yeah, I wanted to follow

up and ask you how your life has

589

changed outside of your career.

590

After you came into the Bitcoin space

like you said a lot of people are starting

591

to look at literally their entire life

differently because we realize how much

592

money has Impacted all of our choices

and the choices of people who are

593

providing the goods and the services.

594

So how has bitcoin impacted your life

in, in what way have you changed?

595

Lisa: I think I'm a very simple person.

596

I joke that my ideal is

597

Like, I love to iron, I love to cook,

I love to bake I drive a station

598

wagon, I love driving a carpool.

599

Like, when Ella's home, I

love driving her around.

600

I'm a very simple person and there's a

lot of joy in a simple way of living.

601

There's a lot of joy of not living

connected to social media and,

602

and not trying to, you know, what,

here's how my life will change.

603

I, I am more focused on health.

604

I am more focused on what I eat.

605

And my goal is to quit being so vain

and maybe one day quit dying my hair.

606

How's that?

607

Like, I feel like Bitcoin is

gonna give us all permission just

608

to , take a step back and , go grow

our own food and have chickens.

609

And get back to real, the real,

like why we're really here on earth.

610

I believe that we're here on

earth to help other people, right.

611

To help one another.

612

We're here for community.

613

We know that community is the number

one outcome of happiness in life

614

is what your community looks like.

615

It's like, why don't we focus on that?

616

And that's the cool thing

about Bitcoin is that it is this

617

fantastic virtuous circle of people

who are building community and

618

are supportive of one another.

619

And.

620

You know, we're all probably gonna

live to be a hundred and, we're

621

gonna have food and shelter and the

world's going to be a better place.

622

So everybody needs to come and join along.

623

Everybody needs to buy Bitcoin so

that they have health and safety

624

and prosperity in their old age,

625

not financial crisis,

626

Tali: I love what you said

about living a simple life.

627

That's the way I see Bitcoin, which

is, you were describing how you

628

were day trading and you had to be

watching the news and you have to

629

be on your computer and you got to

time the market and all that stuff.

630

I mean, you're taking risks and

you have the stress of doing

631

it profitably or losing money.

632

Like, to me, that seems very complicated.

633

And I tell my kids as I tell it like a

joke, but it's really not even a joke.

634

When I was going to business school,

I was watching Animal Planet.

635

Everybody else was watching the Bloomberg

and watching, you know, the price

636

go up and down in the stock market.

637

And I was just like, I want to

look at zebras crossing the safari.

638

So I love, I love how Bitcoin allows

us to just store wealth without adding

639

complications, and then you get to

free up your mind and do other things.

640

Like, cooking in the kitchen, and

like you said, you know, planting

641

a garden and raising new animals.

642

Like, you know, not necessarily fun stuff

for everybody, but just like simple stuff.

643

If you want to be an artist, then you

have a very straightforward way of

644

storing value for yourself, wealth for

the future, and you just focus on art,

645

or, or anything else that you choose.

646

It's almost to me, Bitcoin is

like a simplifier for life.

647

Lisa: big time.

648

I mean, we so complicate our lives.

649

I, I have friends and, and I

used to be this person, right?

650

Like you'd, you'd join a gym,

you'd get your car washed.

651

You're like, you have a housekeeper.

652

Maybe you like, you just spend

money all the time on stuff that, I

653

mean, I look back now and I think,

I mean, I'm not going to join a gym.

654

Like I'm going to clean my own house.

655

And that's.

656

It's an incredible workout actually, and

then I don't need any money to help me.

657

And also I'm not paying

the monthly fee for a gym.

658

And I also love washing my car.

659

I wash my car every Saturday

because I love a clean car and I

660

love not driving through somewhere

and paying 35 for someone to wash

661

my car when I should be washing it

anyway because it's great exercise.

662

So it's like re.

663

Framing how you think about how you spend

money is what Bitcoin has helped me do and

664

I could definitely go get my car washed

and I could definitely have you know, I

665

mean, it's, it's not like I feel deprived.

666

It's, it's a choice.

667

I'm like, gosh, you know what, like, I

need to be healthy when I'm 95 because

668

I have Bitcoin and I'm going to have fun

and I have all these friends and I have

669

Ella and I have stuff I want to do and I

want to travel and see 50 more countries

670

and I got to be well to do that.

671

Tali: Yeah, for sure.

672

Any last recommendation suggestions

for women who are sitting

673

on the fence about Bitcoin?

674

Lisa: Well, they should go back and

listen to every one of your podcasts.

675

And if anybody wants to reach out to me,

you're welcome to reach out on Twitter.

676

You're welcome to reach out on LinkedIn.

677

I, I, I will send you a, I hate this,

but I'll send you a Calendly link.

678

One of my friends set me up with Calendly.

679

It actually is a game changer.

680

I really do like it.

681

Although I, I just hope people don't

think it's tacky to like get a calendar

682

link, but I'll send you a calendar link.

683

We can book some time.

684

I love doing that.

685

It's the highlight of every single

day and I don't know I wish people

686

joy and prosperity and You know, like

go do go do good things for others.

687

It's it is the key to happiness

688

Tali: Awesome.

689

Thank you so much, Lisa.

690

Thanks for joining us today

and learning with us today.

691

If the discussion with our guests

resonated with you and you would

692

like to dive deeper into the world of

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

693

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

694

The meetup link is in the show notes.

695

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

696

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

697

Until next time, bye.