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Anti-fragility with Brain Tumor Survivor Jodi Orgil Brown
Episode 6610th November 2021 • This Shit Works • Julie Brown
00:00:00 00:41:52

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Anti Fragile is a term that was coined in 2012 by Nassim Taleb. Things that are antifragile are things that gain from disorder. And when we learn how to be antifragile, we have the capability to thrive, not despite but because of stressors and volatility that we experience.

My guest today is the epitome of antifragility. In May 2009 Jodi was diagnosed with a brain tumor, located between her right auditory canal and her brainstem. Jodi underwent surgery where 80 percent of the tumor was removed, but due to the proximity to her brainstem, the operation was not without complications. Jodi's nerves were damaged, leading to facial paralysis, hearing loss, and pneumocephalus. 

Listen in as Jodi discusses what she has learned about GROWTH and being antifragile in the 12 years since her diagnosis.

Drink of the week: Beautiful 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolzkaDPEno

This episode is sponsored by Nickerson, a full-service branding, marketing, and PR and communications agency with team members in Boston, LA, Miami, and NYC. https://nickersoncos.com/

Julie Brown:

Website- ​https://juliebrownbd.com/

Instagram- ​https://www.instagram.com/juliebrown_bd/

LinkedIn- ​https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-brown-b6942817/

Youtube- ​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIwWVdayM2mYXzR9JNLJ55Q

Facebook- ​https://www.facebook.com/juliebrownbd/

Jodi Orguil Brown

https://www.jodiobrown.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiOrgillBrown

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodiobrown/

https://www.amazon.com/Jodi-Orgill-Brown/e/B0182YMQDY%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share


Transcripts

Julie:

I met Jody or Gail brown on a dance floor in Las Vegas.

Julie:

The dance floor is where my kind of people tend to be.

Julie:

The people that want a good song comes on, don't give a shit.

Julie:

What other people think of them?

Julie:

None of their crazy dance moves, their sweaty faces or their fact that they

Julie:

sing every single note totally off key.

Julie:

Jody and I are so alike and yet so different in the way that people

Julie:

who become fast friends usually are.

Julie:

And in the time, since this fast friendship began, I've learned

Julie:

so much from her and the lessons I've learned are ones that I

Julie:

knew I needed to share with you.

Julie:

Welcome to episode 66 of this shit works.

Julie:

I'm your host, Julie Brown.

Julie:

And today I am joined by my friend.

Julie:

Jody or Gail brown.

Julie:

This episode is sponsored by Nickerson.

Julie:

A full service, branding, marketing, and PR and communications agency with

Julie:

team members in Boston, Los Angeles.

Julie:

Miami and New York city.

Julie:

I visit them@nickersoncos.com.

Julie:

Last week when I told you a little bit about buying men years disease diagnosis.

Julie:

What I didn't mention was that prior to my diagnosis, I was informed by

Julie:

the ear specialist and that there are only two reasons why a person

Julie:

will lose their hearing overnight.

Julie:

One is a viral infection in the ear.

Julie:

The other, would be due to a brain tumor.

Julie:

In the next breath.

Julie:

I was told that I was going to be put on an oral steroid treatment

Julie:

in case it was an infection.

Julie:

If it wasn't infection, I was told that I might be able to

Julie:

regain about 50% of my hearing.

Julie:

And the next breath the doctor told me she would be immediately scheduling

Julie:

me for a cranial MRI with contrast.

Julie:

Meaning that during the MRI dye would be injected

Julie:

intravenously into my bloodstream.

Julie:

Is dye would allow the doctors to see if I had a brain tumor.

Julie:

My friend, Jody and I underwent the same exact MRI with contrast procedure.

Julie:

But my diagnosis was completely different than hers.

Julie:

Where my doctor called me the next day to say that everything

Julie:

in my MRI had come back normal.

Julie:

Jodie received the news that no one wants to hear.

Julie:

There's a spot on your scam.

Julie:

Jody's brain tumor was located between her right auditory canal and her brainstem.

Julie:

In may of 2009 Jody underwent surgery, where 80% of the tumor was removed.

Julie:

But due to the proximity to her brainstem, the operation

Julie:

was not without complications.

Julie:

Jody's nerves were damaged leading to facial paralysis, hearing loss.

Julie:

And new most syphilis.

Julie:

Which is the presence of air and the cranial cavity.

Julie:

She also had a cerebral spinal fluid leak.

Julie:

I condition in where cerebral spinal fluid escapes through a small hole in the area

Julie:

surrounding the brain and the spinal cord.

Julie:

It's been 12 years since Jody was diagnosed with a brain tumor

Julie:

and she says through it all.

Julie:

Coming to terms with facial paralysis has been one of the most difficult

Julie:

things about being a survivor.

Julie:

She has had nine surgeries on her eye to enable her to close her

Julie:

eyelid and protect her vision.

Julie:

Additionally, Jody has had to relearn how to chew and swallow as well as

Julie:

undergo balance and facial therapy.

Julie:

Her paralysis means she can't smile or use facial expressions

Julie:

to communicate as most people do.

Julie:

Jody has taken all of our experiences and put them on the page and

Julie:

then taken them to the stage.

Julie:

She's written three books about surviving.

Julie:

Self-acceptance.

Julie:

Overcoming depression and antifragility.

Julie:

She's also a sought after speaker sharing, how her experiences have

Julie:

strengthened her resolve to help others improve their interactions.

Julie:

And today.

Julie:

Because of a sick beat and a dance floor, she is here to share her insights with us.

Julie:

Jodi.

Julie:

My friend is so good to see you again, welcome to the podcast.

Julie:

Thank you.

Julie:

And I love that intro.

Julie:

We met in such a fun and beautiful way.

Jodi:

The one thing that is fantastic about meeting other

Jodi:

speakers is how Google a bowl.

Jodi:

We are harder.

Jodi:

So I Googled you.

Jodi:

And one of the first videos I watch.

Jodi:

That you had done was a short video on YouTube titled you are beautiful, which

Jodi:

describes how your facial paralysis made you feel as if you had lost your identity

Jodi:

and how people would do double takes or stare or whisper when they saw you.

Jodi:

You said you felt as if people wouldn't be able to see past

Jodi:

your physical compromised.

Jodi:

Do you still feel that way?

Jodi:

12 years later?

Julie:

I feel like there are some people who still get stuck in what they see, but

Julie:

I have tried very hard to not let that bother me and instead use what could be

Julie:

a weakness and turn it into a superpower.

Julie:

I realize I'm going to be memorable.

Julie:

I realized they they're going to look at me and they're going to notice

Julie:

that something is just a little bit.

Julie:

And rather than trying to shy away or hide or turn my face instead, I use

Julie:

it as an opportunity to lock eyes.

Julie:

I look at them and then I try to do something that will.

Julie:

Stay in their minds in a positive way.

Julie:

And so I really do try to use every moment and every interaction to

Julie:

make a difference in someone's life.

Julie:

I know I'm going to be memorable.

Julie:

Let's go ahead and use it for a positive thing instead of a negative thing.

Julie:

So whether it's that I've tried to have a moment and smile my best smile

Julie:

at them so they can try to see the spirit that I have inside coming out.

Julie:

Whether I start a conversation with them, whether I give them a compliment

Julie:

on something that I noticed about them, I just really try to use it

Julie:

as a positive, memorable moment.

Julie:

So that number one, it's positive for them, But that

Julie:

also makes it positive for me.

Julie:

So that rather than facing that feeling of self doubt, every time someone looks

Julie:

at me instead, I can have the opposite feeling and I can actually feel good

Julie:

about the interactions I have with.

Jodi:

But that must've taken some time for you to get to that point.

Julie:

Oh, absolutely.

Julie:

It took a lot of time.

Julie:

And we were talking today about grief and grieving.

Julie:

And one of the things I definitely had to go through was the grieving process.

Julie:

I actually had a therapist who told me, you have to grieve what you have lost,

Julie:

including, your physical appearance that has changed, because if you don't.

Julie:

You've lost and you can appreciate what you still have.

Julie:

And I am so much better today than I was years ago.

Julie:

but it's still been through a process of grieving.

Julie:

There are so many things I can't do anymore, and there are things that

Julie:

I have had to make changes and, I've had to really learn to adjust, and

Julie:

I've also had to learn to let go.

Julie:

I believed and told others that who we are really is who we are on the inside.

Julie:

And it's not what we portray to the outside world.

Julie:

And boy, if this was not a test to see if that's how I really felt

Julie:

about myself, because even though I was our, from a supermodel, I was

Julie:

very comfortable with who I was.

Julie:

I knew that the world knew me for who I was, and I was good with that.

Julie:

And so to have that all change and suddenly parts of it taken away.

Julie:

Really did push me and challenge me to see if I believed what I said that I did.

Julie:

Um, It took a while.

Julie:

It did.

Julie:

I think the grieving process was the thing that was the hardest and, going

Julie:

through the grieving process and learning that it was okay to feel sad about it.

Julie:

Sometimes it was okay to cry.

Julie:

It was okay to see pictures of myself and be frustrated and to look into

Julie:

the mirror and think, oh my gosh, that doesn't even look like me.

Julie:

Now.

Julie:

That I have gone through that process.

Julie:

There are still times where it hits me again and I'll see a

Julie:

picture and I'll remember, oh Yeah.

Julie:

that's what I look like.

Julie:

That's what people see, because in my mind I have a picture of myself

Julie:

and this is not what she looks like.

Jodi:

Right.

Julie:

Um, but I am happy to say that through.

Julie:

The years through the time through the process of writing books, through the

Julie:

process of helping others and through the grace of God, I am 100% good

Julie:

with who I am with what I look like.

Julie:

And with the face I present to the world.

Jodi:

You know, when we met.

Jodi:

Okay.

Jodi:

Clearly you notice your facial paralysis.

Jodi:

I have women in my family who have Bell's palsy.

Jodi:

So I have to, in a minute in my family who have an amount of paralysis on their face.

Jodi:

And I remember saying to myself, oh, she must've had Bell's palsy.

Jodi:

And then.

Jodi:

When I Googled you, I was like, oh, I was totally wrong.

Jodi:

Do you prefer that people ask about your story or are curious about it?

Jodi:

What is the right interaction for people when they meet you?

Jodi:

What do you prefer?

Julie:

That's a great question.

Julie:

And I can only speak for myself on this because everyone feels differently.

Julie:

And I have many friends in the facial paralysis community who hate

Julie:

to be asked because they feel like that is just drawing attention.

Julie:

And that's the only thing that people see.

Julie:

I feel completely the opposite about it.

Julie:

I feel like when someone asks me that gives me the opportunity.

Julie:

To have that interaction with them.

Julie:

Find that positive moment also to show them that I'm not any different than

Julie:

they are, but it also gives me the chance to explain what is going on.

Julie:

So that next time they see someone and recognize that something is different.

Julie:

It can be a non-issue.

Julie:

I want to take the elephant out of the room.

Julie:

And just the other day I was at church and, a little guy who's probably

Julie:

about four years old, was walking with his mom who is a friend of mine.

Julie:

And he looked at me and he turned to his mommy.

Julie:

Why is she only talking out of half of her face?

Julie:

And I loved it.

Julie:

I loved it.

Julie:

I love when kids are just honest and they speak their mind.

Julie:

And my reaction was I got down on my knees so that we were eye to eye.

Julie:

And I just explained that just like, sometimes you get a cut and you have to

Julie:

put a bandaid on it, or you have an alley.

Julie:

Instead, I had something that hurt my brain and when it hurt my brain, what

Julie:

it did was it made it so that the side of my face doesn't work very well.

Julie:

So now I have to talk out of this side of my face and I have to chew on

Julie:

this side of my face and I have to do all of the things that you would use.

Julie:

Both sides of your face and your mouth for it.

Julie:

And I have to do them all on one side and he just kind of looked at

Julie:

and said, oh, and then that was it.

Julie:

And he moved on and the answer and the experience can be 30 seconds long.

Julie:

I really find that that for me is the best way to handle it, that

Julie:

I make it into a positive thing.

Julie:

I explained to kids, you know, we're not any different.

Julie:

You might have your arm in a cast one day, and that's about the same.

Julie:

If your arm doesn't work, it's the same.

Julie:

As you know, this part of my face doesn't work.

Julie:

And with adults, adults, usually aren't quite as.

Julie:

Willing to ask.

Julie:

They have probably through experienced, been shushed and told not to enough times.

Julie:

but I don't hesitate.

Julie:

I don't hesitate to share nor do I hesitate to ask.

Julie:

And if it turns out that someone doesn't want to talk about

Julie:

it, Absolutely respect that.

Julie:

But for me, I think it shows that they want to see past what they are

Julie:

seeing, but they need to understand.

Julie:

And if I can help be a part of that understanding, then that's

Julie:

a wonderful blessing to me.

Julie:

And to.

Jodi:

When did you decide we met in a national speakers association conference.

Jodi:

You are a national speaker.

Jodi:

You talk about your experience.

Jodi:

When did you decide that it was something that you would talk about publicly,

Jodi:

that you would make it into a message?

Julie:

know, I think I went through the process of deciding that

Julie:

twice once was when I was actually still in the hospital for the.

Julie:

Set of surgeries.

Julie:

I was in neuro critical care in and out of neuro critical care for 35 days because

Julie:

of all of the complications that I had.

Julie:

And there came the point in time, about four and a half weeks into the hospital

Julie:

stay where I realized I was going to live.

Julie:

Because up until that point in time, My life had been so touch and go

Julie:

with all of the complications with trying to remove the tumor with the

Julie:

spinal fluid leak with the new, most syphilis we didn't know from day to

Julie:

day, if I was even going to make it.

Julie:

And there came a point where I realized I am going to live.

Julie:

And I had this very strong thought and impression, which I believe came from God.

Julie:

Indicated to me that because I was going to live and that I was going to have

Julie:

this chance, I needed to be able to share my story and messages with people.

Julie:

I did not know what that meant at the time.

Julie:

I didn't realize it was going to mean books.

Julie:

It was going to mean speaking.

Julie:

It was going to mean videos.

Julie:

I didn't know what that meant.

Julie:

I just knew.

Julie:

I was going to live and I wanted and needed to do my best to get some

Julie:

positive messages out there to the world.

Julie:

So in that sense, I made a decision right then on the spot that I would

Julie:

use my second chance at life for doing the best things I possibly could for

Julie:

sharing some good in the world for reminding people that God exists.

Julie:

And I made that commitment to myself and to God at that time.

Julie:

And then.

Julie:

As I got home and realized what my new life was like, and that I was

Julie:

going to have severe challenges and some pretty major deficits.

Julie:

It took a while to start having things come together.

Julie:

And so really, I didn't know.

Julie:

Intentionally go out and start saying, I'm going to speak about this, but

Julie:

really what happened is people started asking me to share bits of my story.

Julie:

And when I went back to work, they asked me to talk to the staff and

Julie:

address it at a general staff meeting.

Julie:

Well, there were 400 people on that staff meeting and it was the first time I had

Julie:

the chance to stand up and tell my side of the story and explain what happened.

Julie:

And I was completely overwhelmed by the response that people had,

Julie:

that when I was struggling still.

Julie:

The changes to my body, into my face and just to my overall person, the response

Julie:

was overwhelmingly positive and beautiful.

Julie:

And.

Julie:

People jumped to their feet and a flaws and came up and hugged me and

Julie:

congratulated me and then said, oh my gosh, you have to write this down.

Julie:

You have to write your story.

Julie:

You have to keep sharing your message.

Julie:

And that was the start of it.

Julie:

And from then it just became, I just said yes.

Julie:

When people would ask it, didn't start as I'm going to go out and

Julie:

become a professional speaker.

Julie:

It was just that anytime someone said.

Julie:

Would you?

Julie:

I said, Yeah.

Julie:

I will.

Julie:

And.

Julie:

Started a whole new thing.

Julie:

And so then years later, as I had been sharing and sharing and

Julie:

sharing that, I thought, boom, maybe I really shouldn't do this.

Julie:

Maybe I should use this as a platform.

Julie:

And So that was when I made the decision for the second time.

Julie:

And then I really got active about it.

Julie:

And I joined speaking organizations like the national speakers association and I

Julie:

started becoming more, um, focused on it.

Julie:

And so really I kind of made the decision twice, but.

Julie:

After that second time, I certainly have not looked back.

Jodi:

I've listened to a couple of your keynotes because you have videos online.

Jodi:

And one of the stories that I love in your keynote is about a chair and

Jodi:

a bat chair, a Sharpie, and a bat.

Jodi:

And I love this story because I think there are times in our lives.

Jodi:

Where we, for whatever reason are dealing with something very difficult and we're

Jodi:

not exactly sure what to do with all of the feelings that we have inside of us.

Jodi:

And somehow we have to get those out.

Jodi:

And you tell this story about a friend who brought over a chair

Jodi:

and a Sharpie and a bat to your house when you first came home.

Jodi:

Can you tell that story?

Jodi:

Because I think it's great.

Julie:

Well, my friend Stacy is one who has had her fair

Julie:

share of hardships in life.

Julie:

And just a few years prior, she had lost her husband who took his life by suicide.

Julie:

So she was one who I knew I could trust with.

Julie:

Heartfelt and deep feelings with feelings of loss, with feelings

Julie:

of struggle, with feelings of how do I go on through this mess?

Julie:

And so when she showed up at my door, I answered the door and Stacy literally

Julie:

pushed her way in and came in with this bat and chair and set of Sharpies.

Julie:

And she just looked at me and said, it is true.

Julie:

It is time to take the control back of your life because so many

Julie:

things had been out of my control and there were so many things I

Julie:

could do absolutely nothing about.

Julie:

Um, and I just had to figure out how to deal with it.

Julie:

And she said, all of these things have happened.

Julie:

But there are still some things you can control and it's time to take that back.

Julie:

So she set up the chair, gave me the Sharpies.

Julie:

She drew a big target on the chair, and then we together took the different color

Julie:

markers and wrote all of the frustrations that I was facing from my new life.

Julie:

At the time I was wearing pirate patches because I couldn't close my

Julie:

eye and I hadn't had my surgeries.

Julie:

So it included things like pirate patches, dry.

Julie:

The roofing mouth, drippy lips, not being able to swallow.

Julie:

And we just listed everything.

Julie:

And when I thought I got to the end of the list, Stacy is like, girl,

Julie:

I know that's not all come on.

Julie:

What else is going on?

Julie:

Let's get it all out.

Julie:

And we went through all of these different things that I was feeling

Julie:

and all of the frustrations I was having, and we covered the chair in

Julie:

all of the different frustrations.

Julie:

We wrote them all down and then we went outside and she handed me the.

Julie:

And said.

Julie:

Swing swing the bats.

Julie:

And I swung that.

Julie:

And the moment that the bat hit the chair was a little bit electrifying.

Julie:

Like this Zane came through my body and I just realized it felt so Good.

Julie:

And she.

Julie:

I stood there and cheered me on and took pitchers as I took the bat and

Julie:

did my best to be up this chair.

Julie:

Now, the funny thing is at the time my body was so depleted,

Julie:

I was probably 90, 95 pounds.

Julie:

So using all of my strengths to be the chair did not look anything like it

Julie:

would have for, you know, a baseball player, but that was the whole point was.

Julie:

I could still take control and I could still be the one in charge of my life.

Julie:

And by getting that out and letting go of those frustrations, it

Julie:

really gave me the opportunity to say, okay, I am still in charge.

Julie:

I can't control these things, but I can still be in charge of me and I can

Julie:

still decide how I'm going to handle it.

Julie:

The thoughts that I am going to think, and the way that I am going to live my life.

Julie:

And these other things may be part of my life, but they are

Julie:

not going to control my life.

Julie:

And that was a big decision and I am forever grateful that Stacy pushed her

Julie:

way in and gave me that experience.

Julie:

I'll have to show you the pictures.

Julie:

They're pretty great.

Jodi:

we get these, share them with me, this conversation about this chair, I

Jodi:

think in taking control and understanding your strengths, even when you feel

Jodi:

like you're out, your weakest point.

Jodi:

Is going to lead me into the conversation about anti-fragility and I hadn't

Jodi:

heard that term before I met you.

Jodi:

And it's a term that is almost 10 years old.

Jodi:

It was coined in 2012 by Nassim to leave.

Jodi:

And it is one of the main topics that you talk about in your speeches for

Jodi:

people like me, who don't know what that is, what is anti-fragility.

Julie:

That is a great question because we all know what being fragile is.

Julie:

It means there's one state and that's that delicate and frail

Julie:

and not going to get any stronger.

Julie:

The only real option is to get weaker or broken because something is fragile.

Julie:

But the way that men seem to leave explained it anti-fragility is a

Julie:

property of systems that actually increase in their capability to thrive

Julie:

because of stressors, volatility.

Julie:

In other words, you get better from the things that challenge you.

Julie:

So resilient means you bounce back robust means maybe you were strong

Julie:

enough that something didn't impact you, but anti-fragility means when you are

Julie:

antifragile, you actually get better through the experiences that would

Julie:

otherwise try to weaken or destroy you.

Julie:

And I heard that and it just felt like.

Julie:

He is talking to me and he wasn't, he was talking about big systems.

Julie:

He was talking about software programs and economies and governments

Julie:

and how these large scale systems could find a way to get better,

Julie:

even when hit upon by challenges.

Julie:

But to me, it sounded like such a personal invitation to use the

Julie:

opportunities that had come my way.

Julie:

Um, and to see them as opportunities for growth, rather than as.

Julie:

Things that I had been hit with or been victimized by, but instead to become

Julie:

better from the challenges that I faced, and then it became somewhat of an

Julie:

obsession to figure out how can I take this experience and become better from it?

Julie:

How can I become stronger from it?

Julie:

And I.

Julie:

Just kind of developed a whole series of things that I can

Julie:

use personally in my life.

Julie:

And then I realized, oh my gosh, I can share these things.

Julie:

And others can benefit from personalizing the concept of being antifragile.

Julie:

So that is how it all started.

Jodi:

You talk about a fragility mindset.

Jodi:

To get out of a fragile mindset.

Jodi:

My first question is how do you know that you're in a fragile mindset?

Jodi:

How can someone determine, okay, I'm in this mindset right now, and then

Jodi:

we can move toward getting out of it because maybe people don't know that

Julie:

That's a great question.

Julie:

And I don't know that I've ever thought about it exactly in that way, but I

Julie:

think if you stopped to look at what's going on in your life, if you have

Julie:

anxiety about everything that's going on, if you were constantly worried,

Julie:

if you were thinking more about.

Julie:

How you are feeling and your frustrations in your life, if you were focused on

Julie:

those things all of the time, if you're focused on just trying to preserve

Julie:

things as they are, and try to avoid all of the negativity or anything bad

Julie:

happening, and you're in a fragility mindset, because that is saying, oh, if

Julie:

anything happens, I'm going to be worse.

Julie:

The opposite is true.

Julie:

We all know anyone who is a parent or a teacher who has worked with

Julie:

kids knows that growth does not come when they are standing still.

Julie:

But yet we all still try to keep them from falling.

Julie:

Even though falling is exactly the thing that's going to help

Julie:

them become better and stronger.

Julie:

Because every time that they fall, they learn a little bit better balance.

Julie:

They learn a little bit more about how to compensate and they

Julie:

learn how to work their bodies.

Julie:

And just like that.

Julie:

Our minds do the same thing.

Julie:

So it is the way that.

Julie:

our brain more naturally works.

Julie:

And when we find ourselves trying to prevent those things in our lives,

Julie:

when we are constantly on edge, we're worried about everything.

Julie:

We don't want anything bad to happen.

Julie:

That's usually a mindset of being fragile, feeling like if anything happens, I'm

Julie:

going to lose it and I'm going to break.

Julie:

And that is often brought on by stressors in our lives, whether it's from our

Julie:

work, whether it's from our families, whether it's from financial situations,

Julie:

pandemic stores, closing businesses, being affected, losing a loved one, an illness.

Julie:

When you were in this state of feeling like if anything else

Julie:

happened, I'm going to lose it.

Julie:

I can't take.

Julie:

one more thing as opposed to knowing that things are going to happen and then

Julie:

finding ways to use those things that happen to become stronger and better.

Jodi:

So you just talked about.

Jodi:

a lot.

Jodi:

And I know that's an acronym that you use for one of your models.

Jodi:

So what is your growth model?

Julie:

Well, the reason I use growth as the model.

Julie:

Number one, it's something I'm somewhat obsessed with.

Julie:

You know, you can have a fixed mindset or you can have a growth mindset, meaning

Julie:

that you recognize that your brain can change, that you have neuroplasticity,

Julie:

that you can continue to learn and grow.

Julie:

That's what I want is I want to ever grow.

Julie:

I want to constantly be changing and to be getting better.

Julie:

And so the concept of growth that I've come up with anti-fragility stands for

Julie:

G is grit, which is Angela Duckworth's study on grit, which means you have

Julie:

to have a couple of things to have grit, to have a brilliant attitude.

Julie:

You need to have passionate for something and you need to have perseverance.

Julie:

I would also add to that, that you need to have hope.

Julie:

I love Victor Frankel's work.

Julie:

And I think that he is right on, do you have to have hope that things are going

Julie:

to get better in order to have the passion and the perseverance to work toward them?

Julie:

So I add hope to grit.

Julie:

And then also you have to believe that the things that you do

Julie:

are going to make a difference.

Julie:

You have to believe that your inputs are going to impact your outcomes.

Julie:

Because if you think that things are just going to happen to you and that you're not

Julie:

going to be able to influence outcomes, then you're not going to have the passion

Julie:

nor the perseverance to keep going.

Julie:

So to me, that is G that is.

Julie:

Are in growth is your response and you really need to be able

Julie:

to adapt and respond quickly.

Julie:

And that is one of the things that I now understand is that when you react

Julie:

to something quickly and when you adapt quickly, then you are not as

Julie:

impacted by things that happen because.

Julie:

You're on top of it.

Julie:

You're changing.

Julie:

You're making changes, you're adapting, you're pivoting.

Julie:

We all know that people who just sat back and said, oh, I'm

Julie:

going to wait out this pandemic.

Julie:

The shutdown happened.

Julie:

If they just sat back and waited, they were left behind.

Julie:

They lost business.

Julie:

They lost livelihoods and.

Julie:

The people who moved quickly decided they were going to try

Julie:

some new things and adapt fast.

Julie:

They were the ones who really were able to thrive.

Julie:

So the faster that you change and adapt the better off you are.

Jodi:

Yeah.

Julie:

O is probably my favorite because it is the story of my

Julie:

life, which is to find ways to outwork your weaknesses years ago.

Julie:

You remember this?

Julie:

I'm sure they used to have the SWOT analysis where they would

Julie:

say, oh, you got to look at what.

Julie:

Strengths weaknesses, opportunities and threats are.

Julie:

And lots of studies concluded that you are better off focusing on your strengths

Julie:

rather than your weaknesses, because you cannot always turn your weaknesses

Julie:

into competencies or strengths and you can't always make them disappear.

Julie:

And I have certainly learned, I cannot change certain things in my life.

Julie:

And so if I can get people to see past the weakness and not question

Julie:

it because they understand it or because it's camouflage, I consider

Julie:

that outworking your weaknesses.

Julie:

So that's like my daily challenge in life is how to take the little deficits that I

Julie:

still have and find ways to outwork them.

Julie:

So I love it.

Julie:

That's my favorite.

Julie:

The w in growth stands for wait.

Julie:

And when I say weigh in, I mean, checking in with the people around you.

Julie:

Years ago, I worked in an office where we had a wellness challenge

Julie:

and our office decided to take the challenge as a group rather than just.

Julie:

We would go down on Monday mornings for staff meeting, we'd go down to the lower

Julie:

level of the hospital where I worked and we would get on a giant freight scale

Julie:

and we would do a weigh in together.

Julie:

So we weren't saying here's how much you weighed and here's how much you

Julie:

weighed and here's how much you weight.

Julie:

This was what we weighed as a group.

Julie:

And then.

Julie:

we had a group goal and we were all working toward the same goal and we were

Julie:

still all accountable, but it didn't put too much pressure or added stress

Julie:

on any one person because no one person was highlighted for where they were.

Julie:

Instead.

Julie:

It was something that we were working on together.

Julie:

And I think to Austin, we looked at each other.

Julie:

And we think, well, geez, Julie's a totally capable person and she can handle

Julie:

this and this and this, but we don't stop to think about what the weight is that

Julie:

they might be carrying at any given time.

Jodi:

And then.

Julie:

We don't know when someone is dealing with the death of a loved

Julie:

one, an illness, a child who is having struggles or, when the family is facing

Julie:

financial issues and all of those.

Julie:

Way people down and impact them.

Julie:

So the more often you can do a group weigh in and say, what can

Julie:

I do to help spread out the weight that this group is carrying?

Julie:

How can I help make things better for you?

Julie:

Because by helping make things better for you, it makes it better for all of us.

Julie:

You're still working toward the goals together.

Julie:

You're still accountable, but no one person is going to be responsible or

Julie:

going to feel the stress of having all of the weight on their show.

Jodi:

Yeah.

Jodi:

And that's great.

Julie:

And T stands for tinker and experiment because part of adapting

Julie:

and changing means you have to try new things and you don't always know

Julie:

what's going to work, but when you take small risks and you try something

Julie:

new and you're willing to experience.

Julie:

Sometimes things are not going to work and you can eliminate that, but

Julie:

sometimes things are going to work and you're going to find something you can

Julie:

implement into your life or your business.

Julie:

Um, I have some friends that own a restaurant and of course we all know

Julie:

what happened to restaurants during the pandemic, the dining indoor

Julie:

dining was shut down and they thought, what the heck are we going to do?

Julie:

And so they tinkered, they came up with some different ideas and so at a time

Julie:

where they otherwise would have been absolutely struggling, they said they

Julie:

had a great year and they found all sorts of new customers because they were

Julie:

willing to experiment and try something new and then implement what worked.

Jodi:

Yeah.

Julie:

So T is tinker and experiment.

Julie:

And then finally, H the H in growth stands for hood and by hood, I mean,

Julie:

neighborhood parenthood, the people that you go through life with who is

Julie:

your hood, who are the people that are surrounding you in your journey?

Julie:

Because we all know studies have shown research has proven that the more.

Julie:

Support you have the greater, your social network.

Julie:

The longer you live, the happier you are, the easier you can handle challenges

Jodi:

Yep.

Julie:

because you are supported.

Julie:

I can't tell you how many times living for myself looks too overwhelming because the

Julie:

challenges facing me were so difficult.

Julie:

And I got to a point where.

Julie:

I literally was fighting for others.

Julie:

I was fighting because I knew they were praying for me.

Julie:

I was fighting because they wanted so desperately for me to get better

Julie:

because they were taking care of my kids because they were helping me.

Julie:

And they were sending me notes and flowers and cards.

Julie:

They were trying so hard to help me get better that I was at one

Julie:

time fighting for my life for this.

Jodi:

Yeah.

Julie:

And that was a really powerful experience for me to realize that

Julie:

when you have those people who are surrounding you, who want the best

Julie:

for you, who are fighting for your life, it also helps you fight to.

Jodi:

Right.

Julie:

And I love that.

Julie:

I love picturing in my mind, the people around me, all linking arms and going

Julie:

through life arm in arm together.

Julie:

That is how we become straight.

Julie:

So that acronym growth is how I look at anti-fragility.

Julie:

Those are the ways in which if we do those little things each and every day, we can

Julie:

find ourselves becoming better, getting stronger and experiencing, ever growth.

Julie:

No matter what it is that we are facing in our.

Jodi:

I think you say in one of your keynotes that you couldn't have done

Jodi:

this alone, what you went through.

Jodi:

You couldn't have done it alone.

Jodi:

And there are so many times in our lives where we feel like we have to go

Jodi:

it alone, that this is our struggle, that this is our battle alone.

Jodi:

And that is the downfall to not realize how many people.

Jodi:

Number one care about you want to see you succeed, want to see you be healthy?

Jodi:

What just, you overcome what you're doing.

Jodi:

But when, when we are faced with deep challenges, we feel like

Jodi:

we have to take them on alone.

Julie:

And why is that?

Julie:

Why is it that we feel that way?

Julie:

Because we were born to be social creatures.

Julie:

We.

Julie:

Are meant to be in tribes, in families, in communities.

Julie:

That was how it has been from the beginning of time.

Julie:

And yet when something hard comes, for whatever reason, we tend to

Julie:

boat into ourselves and feel like we have to get through it by ourselves.

Julie:

I remember when I had young children and I was a young mom with little

Julie:

kids home alone, and I just thought, oh my gosh, this is so overwhelmed.

Julie:

And it wasn't until another mom in my neighborhood invited me to go and

Julie:

participate in a playgroup and get out with other moms and other kids that

Julie:

I realized I was not the only one who was home, alone, feeling exactly this

Julie:

way and that when we give up that idea of it's just us against the world.

Julie:

And instead we join in together.

Julie:

It was so much easier.

Julie:

It was so much better.

Julie:

It was so much more fun.

Julie:

The kids had people to play with.

Julie:

I had adults to talk to and we supported each other.

Julie:

And then we checked in with each other.

Julie:

We became each other's hoods.

Julie:

We did the weigh-ins.

Julie:

We checked on each other.

Julie:

When someone was having a hard time.

Julie:

When someone had a sick kid, we brought over those pans of cheesy potatoes,

Julie:

lasagna when someone needed it and it just made life so much better.

Julie:

And I know that because I know that.

Julie:

I did not save myself.

Jodi:

Right,

Julie:

Alone, no matter what I did, no matter what I could have done, no matter

Julie:

what I could have tried, it would not have been enough to preserve my life.

Julie:

What preserved my life was the combination of the people around me, who did all of

Julie:

these things that I'm talking about when.

Julie:

An option didn't turn out the way that they wanted.

Julie:

They experimented.

Julie:

My doctors were the epitome of anti-fragility because nothing in my

Julie:

case went the way that we expected.

Julie:

But instead of giving up, they dug in and they looked and tried new things.

Julie:

We did experimental procedures and they went home and researched

Julie:

and came up with ideas for how they might be able to help me.

Julie:

And it was.

Julie:

The people, it was the people in my life.

Julie:

It was the things they did, the choices they decided to make.

Julie:

That literally kept me alive.

Julie:

And I say it changed the world.

Julie:

And some people would say, change the world, come on.

Julie:

Well, if you don't believe me, you know, ask my kids, ask my kids.

Julie:

If the things that people did for our family changed the world,

Jodi:

right.

Julie:

it's certainly changed the world for them.

Julie:

And for us.

Jodi:

Exactly.

Jodi:

Exactly.

Jodi:

This was such a great interview.

Jodi:

I'm so excited that we met I'm in Boston.

Jodi:

You're in Utah.

Jodi:

We met in Vegas, but this is what this, you know, this is what this is about.

Jodi:

And this is also what this is about is meeting people and then taking the next

Jodi:

step to say, I want to know more about you and setting up times to talk and check in.

Jodi:

Cause that's exactly what we did.

Jodi:

I texted you then the morning after we met, I texted you and then you

Jodi:

emailed me and then we set up a zoom.

Jodi:

And that was when we figured out, we had a similar experience where my experience

Jodi:

ended much differently than yours, but we had also gone through that critical moment

Jodi:

of, oh my God, I'm going to be sick.

Julie:

But, you know what?

Julie:

We could have been on that dance floor and had a fun time together that night.

Julie:

And that could have been the end of the story.

Julie:

So I love that you were willing and that I was willing to come together

Julie:

and see what might be coming.

Julie:

And I think we both know we were absolutely meant to be fast friends

Jodi:

Exactly.

Jodi:

Exactly.

Julie:

and yet we could have missed it.

Julie:

So I,

Jodi:

miss it

Julie:

so many people miss it

Jodi:

because they don't, they think that maybe that other

Jodi:

person, oh, I met that person.

Jodi:

I don't know if that person wants to get to know me.

Jodi:

Yeah, they do.

Julie:

They do.

Jodi:

Don't miss the moment.

Jodi:

Don't

Julie:

they do.

Julie:

Every interaction is an opportunity to change the life.

Julie:

And in this case, it changed my life.

Julie:

It changed your lives, and then it's going to change also the lives of the

Julie:

people who get to hear from us, who get to know us through each other.

Julie:

It's going to bless many, many lives because we took the opportunity.

Julie:

So I love that.

Julie:

I love the way that we met and I will never forget it.

Julie:

And I will never forget you letting loose and showing your moves on

Julie:

the dance floor was one of the most fun nights of my whole life.

Jodi:

Oh, that's so great.

Jodi:

Cody, I'm going to put links to everything.

Jodi:

You have your videos, your website, your books in the show notes.

Jodi:

So everybody can learn more about, you

Julie:

Thank you so much.

Julie:

This has been such a pleasure.

Julie:

I adore you my friend and I am grateful that we are friends.

Jodi:

me too.

Jodi:

I'm so glad you're here.

Julie:

Thank you.

Julie:

If you were not inspired by Jody and her story, I'm not sure there's

Julie:

anything I could say in the wrap up that would drive it home for you.

Julie:

But.

Julie:

In conclusion, I do just want to repeat a few of the things that Jody talked

Julie:

about and that struck a chord with me.

Julie:

The first.

Julie:

Being that antifragility is one.

Julie:

We have the capability to thrive because of stressors and

Julie:

volatility that we experience.

Julie:

It's always makes me think about scar tissue.

Julie:

How the skin that forms over where we have been hurt.

Julie:

Ends up being the strongest skin on our bodies.

Julie:

It's tougher because of how it healed after trauma.

Julie:

You can do hard things.

Julie:

You can overcome loss.

Julie:

You can win after defeat.

Julie:

And you can let light into the cracks.

Julie:

Now.

Julie:

I enjoyed all of the directives that make up her growth acronym.

Julie:

But for me, the most important one was hood.

Julie:

I mean, that is what we discuss here.

Julie:

Right?

Julie:

We discussed the people around you.

Julie:

So have you spent enough time creating a hood around you, a

Julie:

group of people to help you?

Julie:

Not only during the good times.

Julie:

But with the heavy lift as well.

Julie:

And are you there in that capacity for people in your hood?

Julie:

Are you a Stacey?

Julie:

Are you the friend who comes over with a chair, a Sharpie, and a bat.

Julie:

She didn't come over and say, Jody, what can I do for you?

Julie:

She came over and said, I know you need this, so don't wait for someone.

Julie:

Who's going through something to tell you what they need.

Julie:

Most people don't even know what they need in times of crisis or suffering or loss.

Julie:

Think, what would I need if I was in this person's shoes and then do it for them.

Julie:

Be someone Stacy.

Julie:

As I mentioned, one of Jodie's videos on YouTube is titled you are beautiful.

Julie:

And because of that, I have picked a super simple drink this week just called.

Julie:

Beautiful.

Julie:

And you only need two ingredients.

Julie:

One ounce of cognac.

Julie:

And one ounce of grand-mom yang.

Julie:

You simply pour each of these two ingredients into a Brandy

Julie:

snifter and you swirl in sip.

Julie:

That is it.

Julie:

All right friends.

Julie:

I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jody.

Julie:

I'm putting links to all of our information in the show notes,

Julie:

and I urge you to learn more about her and reach out to her yourself.

Julie:

She's one amazing person.

Julie:

If you still haven't had a chance to review the podcast on iTunes,

Julie:

please do take a moment to do so.

Julie:

Really does make a difference.

Julie:

And until next week.

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