On this episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast, I sit down with Tim Little, a candidate for the Johnson County Commissioners in the Republican primary. We discuss his background in civil engineering and his experience working with the North Carolina Department of Transportation. Tim shares his thoughts on managing growth in the county, addressing water and wastewater capacity issues, and the importance of parks and recreation for the community. 

If you're interested in learning more about Tim's campaign and his vision for Johnston County, be sure to tune in.

Tim Little: Yeah. So, you know, I would say that there's a 100 counties in the state and probably 90 of those counties would love to have the problems that Johnston County has.

Jonathan Breeden: Absolutely.

Tim Little: And you are correct. You can't stop their growth, but you know, you want more balanced growth. And what I mean by that is, you know, that the land use plan that was written, is a good plan. And some of the ideas in there are great ideas as far as lot size and open space and some of those things. But in essence, we're not going to stop growing, you know, the secret's out. This is a great county to live in, I've been here all my life, and, you know, I was here when it wasn't many people here.

But then the secret got out and, you know, they're still going to come. But they want a great place to live. This is a great place to live.

Jonathan Breeden: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Best in Johnston County podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Breeden, and today we have a guest with us, Tim Little, and he is a candidate for the Johnston County Commissioners in the Republican primary on March 5th, so he'll be on your ballot. He is running for what is an open seat that is currently held by County Commissioner Tony Braswell, who has decided not to run for re-election.

So there's going to be a primary, and it's between. And there's no Democrat, so it's going to be between Tim Little and Bill Stovall. And we have a podcast with Bill Stovall as well, it'll be coming out, I think, the week after this one. So you can listen to that, you can listen to both candidates as to what they want to do for Johnston County.

So welcome, Tim.

Tim Little: Thank you, Sir.

Jonathan Breeden: Hey, no problem. So, just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're from, where you grew up.

Tim Little: So born and raised in Johnston County, you can probably tell by the way I talk, that's not a big secret. I grew up in Kenly, lived in Kenley all my life until I went to NC State, got a civil engineering degree there, went to work with DOT.

Jonathan Breeden: I tell you what you want to talk about a thankless job. There is no more thankless job that you can't do right than the Division Engineer.

Tim Little: I agree. And right or wrong you're going to take blame. A lot of people would say when I became Chief Engineer, that was a great thing. I said, no, it went from being blamed from six counties to 100 counties.

Jonathan Breeden: 100 counties, no doubt. You know, having gone to NC State several of my very best friends from NC State are engineers. They worked for DOT for a long time and listening to their stories about you did what to my driveway, you know, and Oh my goodness. I mean, you can't win for losing in anything with the DOT.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, man. Okay. That's a lot. well,

And you know, personally think the North Carolina Department of Transportation is the best department in America. I have traveled all over this country, I think we have the best roads in America that I have been on, and I think they have done a tremendous job dealing with the growth that has come to this state.

Tim Little: Well, you go from, I think, ninth most populous state in the union to eighth in a very short period of time in the next 10 to 15 years or probably seventh, and there has been a lot of growth across the state. And I like, you know, just great folks that work at N.C. DOT every day to make sure that everybody can get to where they're from and all the goods and services can go where they need to be, and also when it snows and you have any event, that debate this guys and girls are out there doing their job, making sure everybody can get there safely.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and I think a lot of people don't realize about the Department of Transportation, it includes all transportation, it's not just roads.

Tim Little: Airports, ferry system, multi-modal, which include part of the train system. So there's several different aspects of DOT, it's a very complex department if you get down to it.

I know that the state has been trying to raise state employee pay and they did a big pay raise for a DOT employees four or five years ago. Maybe by accident, the size of the pay raise, depending on who you ask, the legislature and the DOT I think had a disagreement, but once the people were given the money, you couldn't go take it back from them because they had spent it. That's a debate for another day as well.

But anyway, Yeah. So, what did you learn in all those years working with the DOT that you believe makes you a good candidate to be a county commissioner now in this fast growing county?

But there are some nuances that I think I could help with in that sense. Also when I worked as a Maintenance Engineer and also being a firefighter in Kenly and not know a bunch of firefighters around the county, I've met a lot of folks that were born here. A lot of folks that moved here and it's a very diverse county.

And, you know, that's a good thing. The diversity has helped, you know, small businesses take off is help people that were born and raised here, help their small business, help them be very you know, successful in what they do. And also, you know, there's a rural part of the county that, you know, I love to go in Kenly, Pine Level.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, cool. And I know you were a firefighter, and one of the things that's already been decided, so this will not be something that your board will decide if you get elected, is we're going to go to a single fire tax district.

Can you explain to the listeners what that is and how that maybe affects them or doesn't affect them?

Tim Little: Yeah, but a couple of things there is, if after I get through my explanation, if you want some more information, the county's having, I think, five sessions across the county that, you know, county staff is going to be there to talk about it.

But the great thing about the fire tax, it does create one fire tax for the county. But what it does for, in my opinion, it helps some of the smaller departments that didn't, you know, maybe they don't have the call volume that a lot of, but there's a lot of things they have to do is the same as a large department.

Jonathan Breeden: I understand that. And for, I guess people listening don't understand right now, each individual fire district, and I think there are 32 in Johnston County, has its own separate tax rate approved by the county commissioners, which is on your property tax bill.

And instead of having 32 different tax rates, there's going to be a single tax rate and the money is going to be shared across all the departments and not kept individually by the department.

Correct?

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Well, and it won't be long before the Cleveland station three opens up on Cornwalls Road at 42. It was very important for the Cleveland Fire Department and Chris Ellington to be able to get a station on that side of I-40 to make it that much quicker to get to accidents on 40 and to serve the citizens there on Cornwalls going back towards Wake County in a quick manner.

And so, the Cleveland community, we're excited to have that new station that is supported by the Macklemore fire tax, and it's gonna, you know, be staffed I believe 24/7 like the other two stations that Cleveland has as well.

So we'll talk a little bit about everything about growth, right? Everybody, it's about growth, growth, growth,

growth. And there's some thought that we need to stop it. I don't believe you can actually stop growth because people want to live here. So what is your thoughts on the growth and the management of the growth of this county?

Jonathan Breeden: Absolutely.

Tim Little: And you are correct. You can't stop their growth, but you know, you want more balanced growth. And what I mean by that is, you know, that the land use plan that was written, it is a good plan. And some of the ideas in there are great ideas as far as lot size and open space and some of those things. But in essence, we're not going to stop growing, you know, the secret's out. This is a great county to live in, I've been here all my life, and, you know, I was here when it wasn't many people here.

But then the secret got out and, you know, they're still going to come. But they want a great place to live, this is a great place to live. They want a good education, we've got great schools. They want enhancements all across the board. And even though I'm from Kenly, which is not originally in Pine Level, which is not heavily developed, I like being able to stay in the county to go do things that in the past I had to go somewhere else to go do.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. So what specifically did you like about the land use plan and what did you not like about it

Tim Little: Specifically, I just alluded to a couple of them, and I encouraged everybody to read it. Here is the thing where you know, they're talking about having more sizable lots, talking about having more open space on those, the negative thing for me is we don't have any protocols set to enforce the land use plan yet. It was adopted, but we need some kind of plan of how we're going, you know, enact the plan.

Jonathan Breeden: Do you think we need more zoning levels, more different types of zoning than what we have now?

Tim Little: No.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: So what do you think the county needs to do? The county's basically out of water capacity and is only providing water by buying it from seven other places. What do you think the county needs to do about the water shortage?

Tim Little: Yeah, I think part of that could be a regional approach to some of our sister counties that don't have the good, bad issues we do.

And can we regionalize that and use some of what they have, and I'm not talking about as far as the noose, but maybe the Cape Fear, which has a tremendous amount of capacity that's not being tapped into. Can we explore those options and try to, and not to overload the county with the growth, but have a method to, if you have something substantial that comes to the county, it's going to be great for the county that you can let that development come.

Tim Little: I think we will have to do a study and see, you know, what would be the effect on the rate and then get impact. Input from the public because it's going to be a strain. Any, obviously, you know, not any increase in anything is hurtful as much as inflation has increased the prices of everything you think of.

So I think that would be a good thing to see what rate. You know, what will we need? And then what does the public, what can they accept?

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

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Tim Little: Yeah, it goes back to a regional approach again. Can we discharge in other places other than what we're discharging now? And also, not only is that an issue, but it's also where you still got some of these small towns that have their own waste water treatment and they're getting the ages and the amount of people that can maintain those is becoming a burden.

And does, you know, how do we approach that? Do we step in and offer that assistance we have before to some of these other towns that lets us make sure that the quality of the drinking water and the sewer is correct? It needs to be what it is.

Tim Little: Well, I think Clayton's issue is, you know, you got Grifols and you got Nominordis there. And they're going, you know, and that may stem some more development that they're probably going to need within, you know, their city limits. So I think it'll be hard to approach that and take it away from them when you have those two major employees, employers in the county already relying on that system.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Do you believe the county commissioners currently have been taking the position? That what limited capacity they have needs to be saved for industrial and they have not been allotting as much of it to residential in the last 12 or 24 months. Do you agree with that?

Jonathan Breeden: Okay, now this land use plan also attempts to push the density towards the towns. And into their sort of ETJ, extraterritorial jurisdictions. Do you think that's a good idea? And is it fair to the towns given that it is almost impossible for a town to annex somebody in North Carolina now without having the people being annexed vote for it?

Tim Little: I think it's a good idea, but it's not very plausible.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Tim Little: And it's going to be a strain on especially the smaller towns. And like you said, without that, being able to annex and provide those services that the resources from the county are going to have to provide. And that's just another strain on the county. And, working with those towns, they're staffed enough now to maintain what they got. So, what's going to be the effect of if we push more residential growth to them? And then what's, the market dictate? Is it dictating that it goes towards more to small towns that will help the small towns in one way, on the other side, it would be a detriment.

They weren't sure what they were going to do with their water. They weren't sure what they were going to do with their wastewater. They weren't going to share what they were going to do with their police, I don't know. Is Pine Level still have a moratorium on new lots? That was about two years ago when I was on that board.

Tim Little: Not sure, to be honest with you, I live right outside the ATJ.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay. I got you.

Tim Little: But, you're exactly right. And I say Pine Level and Princeton both, those towns being so close, they're on the verge of what could be, you know, a lot of development in that area as 70's upgraded to I-42. And then you have the access with the new project on I-40, a quicker way to get across, you know, to Wake County or other places in Johnston County as well.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Well, what, I live in the Cleveland community and all politics is local. And the exit here off of Cleveland school road is going to be done this year.

And so now all of a sudden Cleveland school road, which has been largely residential road is going to become a commercial road. And the commissioners have already, whether the people listening to this or not realize it, they have made the entirety of Cleveland school road just about commercial. And that's going to change the complexion of Cleveland school road.

But it's also going to have an you know, it's going to change that complexion. So what can the county do to not completely lose, the hometown feel of the Cleveland community?

Tim Little: Yeah. And the other part of that is, I know DOT has a project also to widen Cleveland school road. Basically from I-40 to Barber Mill Road.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Tim Little: You know, or some semblance of that. Those type projects help, because they help control traffics, help slow it down, help make it safer. And as far as community feel, that's, you got a large residential portion out there, but to support that residential, you're going to have some industrial growth.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Tim Little: And it's going to have to be, and with Cleveland not being incorporated, it's got to be a balance, and the county has to step in and listen to the concerns of the citizens of what they want, and take that into account. Cause that's going to be important.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I feel a little bit like Cleveland is like Charlotte. We pay a lot in out here in the Cleveland community, don't know how much we get back. Most of the school funding that's above the basic goes to the schools on the I-95 corridor. And they don't really come back out into the Cleveland community.

And we knew she owned the 80 acres across the street, and we called and said, would you be willing to sell us that 80 acres? And eventually she did, and we're very fortunate that Dint Lee and Michael Knot, some citizens bought that land and held it to the county, bought it from them. And so now we have a plan for the Cleveland Community Park. But, have you seen that plan?

Tim Little: Yeah, and I actually went and met with Adrian O'Neill. Great group of people that work there. And they're doing a great job because they're looking for grants and trying to get some of that money brought into the county so they can do some planning for the parks.

So the park we're talking about I just hope that's the number one and that's a start, because we need them more across. We got Howell Woods down, and what I would call it a low ground area, but it's a gym that a lot of people don't know about, but we need amenities for people and that's if you do it, I know that Adrian did a survey. The first thing that comes up is parks and trails and those type of amenities that they can take the kids to go play ball, go do whatever. And so I'm very excited about the idea about the parks.

Jonathan Breeden: So the question is. How to pay for the parks? The Cleveland Community Park projects to cost 30 to $50 million.

Tim Little: Depends on which, which option you choose.

Tim Little: I think some of that is obviously a bond referendum could address that and that puts it in what I call the people's hands to decide if that's what they want.

And I think they've been very successful in Wake County with those type bonds. I don't think there's been one that's failed. Corral's in the Fuqua area, I believe. And so, I think that would be a method to, but my personal concern is, what is the fastest method that we can get it done?

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: Well and I know they could use a park and I know they could use some more park stuff up in the Archer's Lodge community around Corinth Holders High School, like the Cleveland community is not unique in that it could, you know, it has 30 something thousand people and it's unincorporated and it's not going to incorporate and the Cleveland citizens are not paying taxes for a park like the most towns at 7 cents of their tax rates are going towards parks and Rec and Smithfield built, you know, a very nice part there.

Tim Little: Yeah. And that's a possibility as well, but I also look at it, it's not just a Cleveland park.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Tim Little: It's a county park.

Jonathan Breeden: That's true.

Tim Little: I think it's 30 minutes to here from my house. And you know, I love to enjoy the park here. I mean, I would drive that to get.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Tim Little: So I don't think it's just isolated to the Cleveland community. Maybe they're the biggest part of it, obviously. But I think the rest of the county benefits from to our significant portion of the county benefits from.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, how about putting say two cents of whatever the county tax rate is in the budget for parks around the county? You know, we could give some back to the towns and we could give some to all areas of the county, like just actually adding a line item to build parks. We'd say doing Wake County, we've never really done that in Johnston. Would you support that?

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and it's going to be interesting. hope this part comes to fruition sooner rather than later. You know, the current plan is they've got some grants to be able to put in the underground drainage, the parking lot and I think maybe the retention pond, but that's still three year plan from today, based on what Adrian said on an earlier version of the best of Johnston County podcast.

But I'd like, you know, we got the greater Cleveland Athletic Association and I was on the board of it. Until recently for nine years, serving over 3,000 kids every year. And it just keeps to get more and more. And we, you know, they need more space for these kids to play. And we need places for adults to recreate. We don't have any adult recreation in Johnston County. I'm sure you probably support some of that.

But anything that, you know, it's obvious that people are in favor of those amenities. And I think the county really needs to look at that and how can we fast accelerate that to make it happen sooner than later. Because I like to enjoy it while I can as well. And you have people moving here every day and they're going to want those same amenities.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. So I guess as we start to wrap this up. What are your top two or three goals if you were elected to the Johnston County Commissioners for your first four year term?

Tim Little: I think the first thing is to serve with honor and dignity, that's number one for me, and to be civil in all the conversation we had, be it with citizens, be it within the board, be it other boards in the county. I think that's something that we need now.

Jonathan Breeden: All right, and the last question we ask everybody on this podcast is what do you love most about Johnston County?

Tim Little: I love the small town feel for where I live. But also there's another part that I mentioned earlier is it's going to other parts of the county that's more diverse, I really enjoyed when I worked with the team, meeting people from all across the nation. And I always like to ask the question, what brought you to Johnston County?

And like I said, the secret is out, and it's a great place to live. It's a great place to live, work, and we're working on a park, so we have a great place to play.

Jonathan Breeden: I hope so too. So if people want to reach out to you and learn more about your campaign, how can they do that?

Tim Little: Yeah, the best way is on Facebook. Tim Little, just search that for Johnston County Commissioner.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Tim Little: And it'll take you to my page. And if you get my personal page, there's a link to that page as well.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: All right, that sounds good. So anyway, so Tim Little is going to be on the March 5th Republican primary ballot, he is running against Bill Stovall who will be on next week on this podcast, you can listen to both of them and decide who you want to vote for if you happen to be a Republican and you're going to vote in the County Commissioner primary on March the 5th.

Anyway if you would do so kind, if you're listening to this podcast to like follow or subscribe this podcast, wherever you're seeing it, whether it be on YouTube, Facebook, Apple, Spotify, so that you'll be aware of future episodes of The Best of Johnston County podcast, that would be much appreciated to us, you don't want to miss out.

Help with our visibility that will show this podcast to other people in and around Johnston County that might be interested in the Best for Johnston County podcast and the guests and the citizens that we have on our podcast, that would be great.

And until next time, I'm your host, Jonathan Breeden. Thanks a lot.

That's the end of today's episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.