Episode Summary: Join us for a special 200th episode celebration of CarbonSessions!  

We've curated a buffet of standout segments from our extensive library, featuring intimate conversations with world-leading experts, best-selling authors, and everyday people just like you and me.  

Explore these highlights and dive into the full episodes for more inspiring content. 

Segments from the following episodes and speakers: 

• Inma, Olabanji Grow A Food Forest 
• Leekei, Seth, Olabanji Seth Godin on Better Climate Conversations and Creating Change: Celebrating our 100th Episode! 
• Brian, Josh Sustainability Leadership And Intrinsic Motivation With Josh Spodek 
• Tonya, Kristy, Katherine The Octopus' Gardens 
• Brian, Jenn, Jason Living a life of ecological authenticity with Jason Angel 
• Leekei, Brian, Kristina Biomimicry and Observing Nature to Find Solutions to Solve Environmental Problems 
• Jenn, Leekei A Climate Mindset Should Not Lead to More Division 
• Brian, Joe Living a Solarpunk Life to Create A Better Future with Joe Hines 
• Olabanji, Steve Climate and Weather - part 2 
• Olabanji, Tania, Sam Golf Courses 
• Elisa, Jenn, Jo, Rob Climate and Weather - part 1 
• Leekei, Jenn, Rob Toothpaste, Dentistry and Plastics 
• Dan, Henk Henk Rogers, From Being Video Game Pioneer with Tetris to Architect of a Carbon-Free World with Blue Planet Alliance 
• Kate, Katherine Carbon Positive Farming with Kate Field 
• Jeremy, Hannah Charting a Hopeful Future with Data Wisdom by Hannah Ritchie 
• Leekei, Barbara Scaling Climate Education to 1,000 Italian Schools with Barbara Orsi 
• César, Jennifer Clean Something For Nothing To Make An Impact 
• Leekei, Jenn, Olabanji Quiz On Food And Climate Change 

-----  

Featuring: 

• Barbara Orsi (Italy): Founder of Generation Carbon Italy.  
• Brian Tormey (US): Real estate professional and goat farmer. 
• César González Fernández (Luxembourg): Co-founder of CSFN. 
• Dan Slater (UK): Video game digital art student. 
• Elisa Graf (Germany): Freelance writer and editor. 
• Hannah Ritchie (Scotland): Data scientist, researcher and best selling-author. 
• Henk Rogers (US): Co-founder of Tetris and renewable energy advocate. 
• Imma Lopez (Spain/Scotland): Sommelier, poet, and slow food advocate. 
• Jason Angel (US): Practitioner of sustainable living and agriculture. 
• Jenn Swanson (Canada): Minister, coach, and community connector. 
• Jennifer Myers Chua (Canada): CCO of a conscious distribution company. 
• Jeremy Côté (Canada): Scientist, athlete, and writer. 
• Joe Hines (US): Co-host of Solarpunk Life on YouTube. 
• Jo Petroni (France): Bioclimatic architect. 
• Joshua Spodek (US): Leadership coach, author and educator. 
• Kate Field (Australia): Goat farmer, cheese maker and emergency doctor. 
• Katherine Palmer (US): Aromatherapist and workshop coordinator. 
• Kristina (US/Prague): Architect and engineer. 
• Kristy Sharrow (US): Journalist turned marketer. 
• Leekei Tang (France): Business founder, sustainable development educator and author. 
• Olabanji Stephens (Nigeria): Creative Director and visual designer. 
• Rob Slater (UK): Orthodontist and triathlete. 
• Sam Schuffenecker (US): Golfer and former hockey player. 
• Seth Godin (US): Change agent and best-selling author. 
• Steve Heatherington (UK): Podcast coach, producer and alpaca shepherd. 
• Tania Marien (US): Environmental education professional. 
• Tonya Downing (US): Digital marketer for small businesses. 

----- 

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org 

Want to join in the conversation? 

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives. 

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up! 

-----  

The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater. 

Hi, I'm Christina.

2

I'm from Prague.

3

Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

4

Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

5

Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

6

Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

7

Welcome

8

to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

9

everyone, from everywhere in the world.

10

In our conversations, we share ideas,

Perspectives, questions, and things we

11

can actually do to make a difference.

12

So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

13

Welcome to this special 200th

episode of carbon sessions.

14

Today we celebrate not just the number.

15

But the dedication,

consistency and persistence.

16

Of our incredible team and the invaluable

contributions of our amazing guests.

17

Reaching 200 episode is

a significant milestone.

18

Do you know that there are

over 4 million podcast?

19

Well, walled and only a small

fraction make it this far.

20

This milestone is a Testament

of our unwavering commitment to

21

sharing diverse perspective and

confronting ideas from around the

22

globe to address climate change.

23

And to try to build a better world.

24

We believe that through collective action

and shed knowledge, we can create change.

25

Throughout a journey we've tackled

a wide rent of topics, including

26

the voices and experiences of

people that are making a difference.

27

And to celebrate the small stone.

28

We've curated a selection

of Stanhope moments from our

29

extensive library of 200 episode.

30

I come up believe that I'm

saying 200 episode out loud.

31

That just mind boggling..

32

So in this episode, you'll

hear intimate conversations.

33

With world leading experts

best-selling offers.

34

And also everyday people just like

you and me from across the globe.

35

Because if you're listening to this show,

We believe that we all all United by our

36

commitment to changing the status quo.

37

And our carbon sessions, we firmly

believe that everyone can and

38

should be part of the conversations.

39

About climate change.

40

So as we look forward to

future episodes, we invite you.

41

Our listeners.

42

To join us in this

important conversations.

43

Your voice matters.

44

And together we can make a difference.

45

So Donna's.

46

OLABANJI: Hi, I'm ALA Vanji.

47

INMA: Hi, I'm Emma.

48

And today we are talking

49

About something essentially.

50

Beautiful

51

OLABANJI: Yeah.

52

INMA: Ji.

53

What is, what is food forest?

54

OLABANJI: Um, yeah, so

this is interesting.

55

I mean, I just, you know, been learning

about it for a while and it's basically.

56

You know, replacing our gardens

are pretty gardens with an actual,

57

, ecosystem where we can have shrubs.

58

We can have trees, we can have flowers.

59

Um, we can plant food as well there,

and that is good on many levels.

60

I mean, why not instead

of a garden that is.

61

Pretty green.

62

And then you have to,

um, you have to mow it.

63

Sometimes you have to cut down

flowers and all that stuff.

64

You can have a food forest and have

food who doesn't want food, have nice

65

INMA: yeah, exactly.

66

OLABANJI: fruits and all, all the

cool stuff that comes with it.

67

I mean, yeah.

68

So pretty much that's what it

69

INMA: yeah.

70

you can have birds.

71

OLABANJI: Yeah.

72

INMA: you were saying who

doesn't like a hum hummingbird

73

OLABANJI: Yeah.

74

INMA: in their, in the backyard.

75

So amazing.

76

OLABANJI: Who doesn't and, and when we

have a food forest, we create a habitat.

77

Those animals, , so now you have bees,

you have birds, you have butterflies

78

and you, you know, they're just amazing.

79

So you have butterflies.

80

Nice, cute little things that

everybody just likes and.

81

They're around

82

INMA: love butterflies.

83

OLABANJI: Yeah.

84

They're around you.

85

And they also help to crosspollinate.

86

I mean, the birds are there.

87

They take seeds and you know,

they take them all over the place.

88

You have trees, you have

fruits, you have flowers.

89

Um, and you have bees, you

have different species of bees.

90

You.

91

Um, butterflies, birds, just like

you were saying, like who doesn't

92

like a hummingbird in their backyard.

93

I can't imagine the feeling when you

wake up to a hummingbird, the sound of

94

a hummingbird that that's going to be

95

so cool.

96

And then , you create a chance for carbon

dioxide to be trapped and not go into the

97

atmosphere, which is one of the critical

reasons we're having this conversation.

98

INMA: apparently cutting, the, , the loan

is one of the things that I wouldn't think

99

about it, but apparently it gets quite.

100

a lot of carbon in the atmosphere.

101

OLABANJI: it does.

102

, I think I read a study that says, okay,

if you do the plus and minus of the

103

carbon that goes into maintaining the

lawn and the gardens, and then the carbon

104

that it traps, it's not equivalent.

105

Right.

106

It's as good as boring you something.

107

And then I come take it back

eventually because you plant.

108

To take the carbon, but then you come

with a lawnmower to, to take it out.

109

You have fertilizers and water system

and all that stuff that have really huge

110

carbon footprints to maintain the gardens.

111

So it's as good as it's

not effective at all.

112

It's not any use.

113

.

INMA: And I, we were talking Jen and myself.

114

We were talking the other day

about leaf blow that blew my

115

mind because I had no idea.

116

Well, first of all, I had no idea.

117

People use those things.

118

and secondly, uh, together with the,

with the long, owners are really,

119

really, \ , taking back whatever \ that

is beneficial for, for the atmosphere.

120

OLABANJI: Yeah.

121

Yeah.

122

it's been 18 months since you've started

working on the Carbon Almanac product

123

and almost nine or 10 months since

the carbon arm neck was published.

124

What do you think is going well and

what do you think is going not so well?

125

Oh boy.

126

So much to cover.

127

Okay.

128

So the world has an epidemic of

loneliness and we also have an

129

epidemic of, uh, following the place

where we live, leaving behind a

130

mess for other people to clean up.

131

And they're sort of relating.

132

And one of the things that I

discovered is that the internet is

133

a fine place to meet caring people.

134

To make connections that could last

a lifetime, that the internet enables

135

you to look at somebody who's only one

inch by one inch on your screen, but

136

know that that person would put you

up for the night if you were in town.

137

Know that somebody is walking

in the same direction as you.

138

And in a world where so many people

feel helpless or without meaning,

139

the last year and a half have

shown so many of us in this circle.

140

That it's possible if you extend

yourself, that others will extend them.

141

And that gives me optimism about

our climate because the earth

142

doesn't care if the weather changes.

143

We do.

144

And it's beyond discussion.

145

People who care at all about their

reputation is being thoughtful.

146

No longer talk about the fact

that the climate is changing.

147

It is.

148

And then the question

is what to do about it.

149

And.

150

What this crew figured out is that

while the world wanted a shortcut,

151

they wanted a palliative, they

wanted something that would make

152

them feel good for five minutes.

153

We refused to do that, and we just

said, here's what you need to know.

154

Here's what you're gonna need to know,

regardless of whether someone comes out

155

with single use laundry sheets or not,

regardless of whether you decide to

156

fly on an airplane ever again or not.

157

Because knowing leads to conversation

and conversations lead to connection.

158

And connection leads to better.

159

Wow.

160

Thank you.

161

Thank you for that answer.

162

Um, Carbon Sessions is a podcast

where we have conversations on

163

climate change and the environment,

you know, with everyday people from

164

just about anywhere in the world.

165

, and we've had so many fantastic

conversations on diverse topics like food.

166

Food systems, energy systems,

transportation, health, and so on.

167

One time we interviewed, um,

an E S G professor in London.

168

We've also had rare earth

engineers in Australia.

169

We've had bikes, activists in the us,

um, a tequila distiller in South America,

170

golfers and like so many people, um,

that we've been privileged to meet.

171

When we started, we actually thought

that we would run out of topics

172

or things to talk about very fast.

173

But the more we have these

conversations, the more we want to

174

talk about climate change, the more

we wanna talk about the environment.

175

We meet people that also

want to do the same.

176

And so now we only don't know if we're

ever going to run out, but we don't

177

want to and we don't see coming soon.

178

Um, but while we explore this

multifaceted approaches to, to climate

179

change, sometimes we come across

people that don't see the challenge

180

from the same angle that we see it.

181

Or do not necessarily agree

with what needs to be done

182

or how it needs to be done.

183

We feel like climate change is a

we problem, and that's why we're

184

here having conversations about it.

185

And we need to incorporate all

the points of view since we can't

186

solve the problems by ourselves.

187

So Josh, you know, thank

you for joining us.

188

We're really appreciative of your

time and I know you know, one of the

189

interesting things that's already

arisen in our conversation this morning

190

is in order to help conserve power.

191

You were like, Hey, let me May,

is it okay if I go off video?

192

Cuz that's gonna help me conserve power.

193

Can you tell us a little bit why,

you know, what brings that about?

194

It's this, this journey you've been on for

the last six months and our listeners and

195

myself and Allon are excited to hear what

you've been up to these past six months.

196

Well, yeah.

197

It's hard to figure out where to begin.

198

I'll, I'll start at the end, but, but I'll

note that there's a lot leading up to it.

199

I didn't just decide to

disconnect outta the blue.

200

, but six months ago, no.

201

I have to go back to, do you mind

if I take a bit of a longer story

202

because uh, yeah, please tell us.

203

If you had asked me 10, 15 years

ago about the environment, I'd say,

204

yeah, it sounds pretty serious and

someone should do something about it.

205

Of course, my personal actions

wouldn't make a difference, and

206

only governments and corporations

can act on the scale that we need.

207

But I have faith that, you know, people

figured out maybe I could work on some

208

invention that might have some impact.

209

Not much would make much of a difference.

210

And I looked down one day at my

garbage in my kitchen and realized

211

I was producing a lot of garbage.

212

I probably empty at least once a week, and

I thought, well, maybe I can't change the

213

whole world, but I mean this garbage, no

one else can take responsibility for it.

214

I am the only one who can,

and I feel responsible to.

215

You know, it took me like six months

to implement the following idea.

216

I thought, I wonder if I could go for one

week without buying any packaged food.

217

Cause most of the garbage

was from food packaging.

218

And it took me six months to finally

say, to go from analyzing and

219

planning and thinking like, what do

I do day one, day two, day three.

220

Eventually just saying,

look, I'm not gonna die.

221

I'll just start right now.

222

And all these little questions of

like, do I count food in my pantry?

223

Can I eat that if it's packaged or not?

224

And all these little things that, like

once I actually started doing it, then

225

I had to solve all these problems.

226

And I thought that living in Manhattan

with all these restaurants around

227

that I'd be depriving myself and I.

228

I found that, well, it

took me, I mean, I made it.

229

I made it actually two and a

half weeks before I bought my

230

first packaged food, which was

surprisingly longer than I expected.

231

I didn't know if I would make the

week, and then over the next couple

232

months I thought, you know, maybe I

can't keep quite to zero for the whole

233

time, but I'll do my best to, you know,

get less packaging than I used to.

234

And this led to getting a lot more

fresh fruits and vegetables and getting

235

from bulk, bringing my own bags.

236

You know, this was the first time in

my life that I boiled dried beans on

237

the stove, which I'd never done before.

238

So I'm, I'm not proud that I made

it to my forties before doing that.

239

But as I cooked more and more with

more and more fresh stuff, I went

240

from just having seen vegetables all

the time to making really good food.

241

And I found that contrary to

my expectations, I was spending

242

less money when I was in a hurry.

243

I could make food faster.

244

It tasted better.

245

I started in workshops up in the

Bronx and in food deserts to help

246

bring farmer's markets to other

places, cuz I have easy access here.

247

And it was just a pure positive in

my life, not just a net positive.

248

There were no downsides.

249

I mean, except for that six

months of really bland stuff.

250

But that was kind of like my training.

251

And I should also mention that

that was eight, nine years ago.

252

And along the way, I've emptied

my garbage less and less.

253

So my garbage today is I'm just about

three years on one load, and it, it,

254

it feels, even that feels like a lot

to me because it's less and less.

255

So most of that is from two,

two and a half years ago.

256

And again, this is just pure

improvement to my life that I

257

would've thought would've been a loss.

258

And as much as the physical change is

meaningful, my impact is just one person.

259

Emotional and mental shift.

260

That was the big thing because I

started thinking, why did I think

261

that this was gonna be so awful?

262

What else in my life have I come to

believe through cultural whatever would

263

be awful, but might also be awesome.

264

So a couple of years later, I challenged

myself to go for a year without flying.

265

This was after watching a video

where I learned that flying.

266

The guy speaking was British, so

he said flying London to LA and

267

back was a year's worth of driving.

268

And I thought, again, I can't fix

the whole world, but I can take

269

responsibility for my stuff and

I don't wanna pollute the world.

270

I know that people are gonna be

breathing in those fumes and people

271

are displaced from the land to get

that oil, building the plane, all

272

the embedded pollution in that.

273

And so I thought, I wonder if I could go

for, you know, a week wouldn't be enough.

274

I eventually settled on a year without.

275

Again, same thing.

276

I thought this was gonna be

the worst year of my life.

277

I thought, you know, family work, all

these commitments, what am I gonna do?

278

And I just saw everything as it came.

279

And that was 2016 and

I haven't flown since.

280

And the longer I go without flying, the

more flying just, it's just wretched to

281

me, it just sounds like a terrible idea.

282

Not just for the pollution, but for

what, what it does to our culture.

283

Anyway, that led a

while later to, oh yeah.

284

I was reading this article on how

much, much of the world doesn't

285

refrigerate like we do, they ferment

and have different food systems.

286

And I looked at my fridge and

I thought, that's my biggest

287

source of pollution right now.

288

And I started thinking, I wonder how

long I could go without using the fridge.

289

What would I do?

290

Do I have to learn to ferment and

part of me something in my mind?

291

That's that analyzing planning that

takes a long time that just do it.

292

So before I could stop myself, I

went over and unplugged the fridge.

293

And the first time I made it three

months, then six and a half months.

294

And now I'm in my second year.

295

And I, I now, having made it a full

calendar year, I'll probably, I

296

may never plug the fridge in again.

297

I'm not sure.

298

And Oh, wow.

299

Once my bills started coming down

to my electric bill, there's 18

300

to $20 that I can't do anything.

301

That's just being connected.

302

I guess I could completely just like

tell ConEd to close the account,

303

but I haven't done that yet.

304

But as my bill started getting to like

a dollar, $2 a month for the power that

305

I was using, I started thinking and I

put up a blog post a couple years ago.

306

I wonder if I could get to zero.

307

Could I go for one month without

using any electrical power from the.

308

And this is in Manhattan.

309

And so I posted to my

blog, can anyone help me?

310

Does anyone know solar?

311

I didn't know anything about solar.

312

I mean, I knew what solar was and I

have a PhD in physics, so I know power

313

and energy and things like that, but I

didn't practically know what devices I

314

should buy and how do I connect them?

315

And I, I live in a co-op building that's

a big building, so I know that the

316

coop isn't gonna let me install stuff.

317

I, I get some light through the windows.

318

No one answered to my blog post, but

I just started going online and I mean

319

Craigslist looking at what's used,

and eventually I found out I should

320

get a, a battery and a solar panel,

and I got a portable solar panel and

321

a portable battery because I can't do

this a permanently, and I just bought

322

them from used and figured I'll try

it out and figure out how it goes.

323

And I'm not trying to solve

all the world's problems.

324

I'm just trying an experiment

to see if I can go for a month.

325

Using the grid.

326

So I guess one of 'em broke

and had to get it fixed.

327

But eventually on May 22nd, I had

just made my stew with a pressure

328

cooker powered from the battery,

which was powered by the solar panel.

329

And I was thinking, right, I got

some stew that lost me a few days.

330

I got 20% left on the battery.

331

I wonder like next, what should I check?

332

I don't really know how much

power floor AMP is gonna use.

333

I don't really know how

much my computer's gonna.

334

and I start thinking maybe I should

wait until the ConEd bill rolls over,

335

which is on the seventh of the month.

336

And then I realized, oh, this is that

thought that this is that analyzing

337

planning that always gets in the way.

338

Just, I know I'm not gonna die.

339

I know no one's gonna get hurt.

340

I'll find stuff out.

341

This thought entered my mind, I

guess I just started, so without

342

any planning, beyond just getting

the, the panel and the battery.

343

I just said, all right, I'll start now.

344

And I really had no idea how I'd make

it past when I ran out of the stew.

345

I didn't know how, how I'd make it

past a couple days, but my goal was one

346

month, and so now I'm in my sixth month

and I had no idea how I would do it.

347

I'm ending up going up

and down the stairs.

348

It's 11 flights up to the roof and back.

349

So I do that twice a day, maybe

three or four days a week.

350

Well, the past few days it's

been very rainy, so I haven't

351

been able to do it for a while.

352

I'm just solving things as they come and

it's turning out as I kind of knew, but

353

I knew intellectually, but didn't know

until it actually happened was just fun.

354

I'm getting in touch with the seasons and,

and the sunlight and all sorts of things.

355

And also, again, I should mention

I am doing it for myself because I

356

would like to reduce my pollution.

357

I don't wanna hurt people.

358

And I wanna clarify here,

there's changing the world.

359

But there's my contribution.

360

I know that the pollution I cause

is gonna hurt people in wildlife.

361

So even if I can't change the

world, I wouldn't wanna hurt people

362

even if I can't change the world.

363

But the bigger picture is that

this is a leadership exercise.

364

I don't believe that anyone can lead

another person to live by values

365

that they live the opposite of.

366

And so, how else can I learn

to do stuff without doing it?

367

I mean, I have to practice.

368

So I'm learning a lot of what

works and what doesn't work.

369

You know, the big challenges of changing

global culture is not, do people know

370

enough of how carbon dioxide traps heat?

371

That science is very interesting, but it's

our emotions, our stories, our images,

372

our our role models, and that's culture.

373

And giving people facts and

numbers doesn't change that.

374

Role models is a big thing,

knowing what leads people.

375

What leads people to say,

what I do doesn't matter.

376

When everyone knows that that's not

the case, what leads people to say only

377

governments incorporations can make

a difference when we know that how to

378

change governments is we have to act.

379

That's like the finish line for

government incorporation to act.

380

How do we get there?

381

That was a long answer

382

I mean, I just went, gungho researching

cephalopods, you know, ocean life.

383

I, I really kind of zoned in

on octopuses and several of

384

pods, but yeah, just learned.

385

Everything I could.

386

Yeah, you did a lot of really good

research, Tanya, and by the way, thank

387

you for saying that Catherine, about

the script, that means a lot to hear.

388

It was really fun to be a part of.

389

So when we were researching it, Tanya

did really take the reins and she

390

found all of these cool articles and

started listening to this audio book.

391

Or maybe you, you read it.

392

I think, I think you did audio

though, and just started sharing

393

all of this stuff and it.

394

It was really fascinating to learn

both about the octopus, which was what

395

we decided to center the story on.

396

But then also in parallel to that,

learning about ocean plastics and.

397

That whole side of things

was very eye opening too.

398

Yeah.

399

Yeah.

400

Super eye opening.

401

Like some of the things that I've learned

about ocean plastics, the great Pacific

402

plastic patch, you know, that huge mound

of plastic that's just floating out there.

403

That's bigger than Texas like that just.

404

Blew my mind that that's real.

405

And I guess there's one in the Atlantic

too, that rivals the Pacific one in size.

406

And it just, you realize all

the creatures that it affects,

407

like the octopus and I heard OC

occupy are really smart creatures.

408

Actually, they really are.

409

They actually have the IQ and capacity

of like a two year old human child

410

or like a dog, the trainability of a.

411

So they're really fascinating creatures.

412

They're mischievous.

413

They can like, they keep track of

people that have wronged them, or

414

like, there's this story of an octopus

in an aquarium where one of the

415

trainers or the workers, it didn't

like this worker for whatever reason.

416

So every time the worker would

turn his or her back to walk

417

away, it would spit water at it.

418

It was truly upset with this

worker and doing it on purpose.

419

They found.

420

So yeah, Actify are, are

super fascinating creatures.

421

And like one of the many creatures

under the ocean that are so smart,

422

like we look at, you know, dolphins

and whales and all these even sharks

423

are finding how this intelligence

that we never give them credit for.

424

It's just makes me really sad how we.

425

You know, polluting their

home so that they're, they're

426

not even standing a chance.

427

Yeah, I completely agree.

428

I think that was one of the eye-opening

pieces of knowledge that I learned

429

throughout creating this script.

430

Once we decided to choose an activist as

our main character, which we chose because

431

of some of the things Tanya mentioned of

it being mischievous and smart, and we

432

just thought it would be a fun character.

433

We were looking at where.

434

This octopus should live.

435

And I don't know where an

octopus would typically live.

436

I don't know much about it.

437

So I started doing research and it

did not take long to learn that many

438

are living in human trash right now.

439

And.

440

There are a lot of pictures of it, a

lot of information on it, but with human

441

trash becoming increasingly common in the

ocean, sometimes it's easier to find than

442

something like a seashell for a home.

443

So, Tanya, I don't know if you knew

that before, but I know for me that was.

444

that was a big moment to,

to learn more about that.

445

No, absolutely.

446

It was eye opening and we, I think we

kind of jokingly were feeling really bad

447

about collecting seashells and stuff.

448

Um, because we learned that that's an

actual problem for octopus, that they

449

sometimes will wear like shells to

cover themselves or protect themselves.

450

And they're not able to find.

451

Them as much anymore.

452

So they'll, they've started using ocean

plastics and coffee hands and, and

453

things that are, that make their way

from landfills to the bottom of the sea.

454

So it's very sad.

455

Yeah.

456

And then on top of those potentially

harming them, like there was one

457

picture that I remember from the

beginning of our research where

458

an octopus was living inside of a.

459

Piece of broken glass.

460

So on top of something like that,

potentially hurting them, some of the

461

ocean plastics can be leaking chemicals

that are harmful for them as well.

462

So was it hard to write it

so that it relates to kids?

463

Like this is such a huge problem

and it feels really daunting.

464

Like all these, all this plastic in

the oceans, like how is it to write

465

something that would relate to.

466

You said you had six.

467

You wanna keep pepper in him,

468

or leaky, and I can pepper him next.

469

, . Well, I'll ask one more.

470

There'll be half of my six.

471

Um, so what is lighting you up now?

472

Uh, especially about climate.

473

Especially about carbon.

474

Especially about climate.

475

Okay.

476

What's lighting you up now?

477

So, great question.

478

I mean, so the, the project that's

probably taking the most of my time right.

479

Is through our nonprofit, which is called

the Ecological Citizens Project, and we

480

launched a program called the Regenerative

Communities Program a couple years ago.

481

And the basic idea is that the

farming world is very white.

482

It's very old, it's aging out.

483

We need new farmers and we need

farmers across the spectrum.

484

And so we started training

farmers on our, our farm.

485

Three years ago, and then working

with nearby cities to gain access

486

to municipal land where the farmers

we train are, are going to those

487

sites and they're creating what we're

thinking of as public food gardens.

488

So a community farmer grows food

on those sites and, and anybody

489

is welcome to come and harvest it.

490

So it's kind of, you know,

a return to a commons idea.

491

And so what's really, uh, taking a

lot of our energy right now is we

492

are sustaining that program through

foundations and philanthropic giving.

493

You know, if you wanna change the

world, you probably can't do it

494

only on philanthropic giving alone.

495

And so we got a grant from New York State

to try to develop community owned solar

496

in peak scale, where by changing the

ownership structure, you have control

497

over the profits off of the solar system.

498

And so we're trying to steer those

profits towards paying urban farmers.

499

So, you know, not to

go deeply into it, but.

500

You know, food like everything

else, obviously in a capitals

501

economy is a commodity.

502

And so even as a small farmer, like

we find as a small farmer, you know,

503

if you're trying to be economically

viable as a small farmer, you are

504

growing microgreens for restaurants,

or you are bringing your produce

505

to the farmer's market where people

are willing to pay the most for it.

506

And all of a sudden your

food is not necessarily going

507

to people who need it most.

508

Um, and so if we start thinking

to ourselves, Well, what if in a C

509

food commodity world, the people who

can't afford it don't get to eat it?

510

That's just too bad.

511

It's a commodity, right?

512

But if we start to think about building

a new energy system and who owns it

513

and where the profits go, which is what

wakes me up in the middle of the night,

514

it's kind of transformative, right?

515

And if a farmer is paid by a revenue

stream off of solar to grow, , they've

516

kind of taken a bit of food out of

the commodity system and you can

517

now treat it like a human right.

518

You can treat it like food should

go to people who need it most,

519

regardless of ability to pay.

520

I believe even if we could do it in

the city of peak scale, a small city

521

demonstrate that you can build solar

and, and redirect the profits from

522

it, then I think, you know, it can be

really impactful for other communities.

523

Hi, I'm Leak.

524

Hi, I'm Brian.

525

Hi, I'm Christina.

526

Today we're gonna talk

about, uh, biomimicry.

527

So I brought in, uh, definition

from Biomimicry Institute.

528

Biomimicry is a practice that learns

from and mimics the strategies

529

found in nature to solve human

design challenges and find hope.

530

Sounds good.

531

That sounds good.

532

Yeah.

533

I like hope.

534

I like hope.

535

And I would like to add a comment

because I was not familiar with

536

biomimicry before we saw this film

on, what is the name of the company?

537

Interface?

538

The co company.

539

I wasn't aware that your biomimicry

was something that existed.

540

And then I looked up, and actually

it's a technology that has existed

541

for probably a full billion cares

because, um, nature has been fighting

542

against an environment for so long.

543

So imagine all the knowledge

has been acquired by nature as a

544

living body over all these years.

545

So it's really powerful.

546

Yeah.

547

I agree.

548

You know, it's, I'm gonna

go off on a little tangent.

549

Uh, that's sort of, you know, if we think

about evolutionary pressures, right?

550

It's about different things in nature.

551

Uh, trying different things, right?

552

Like, so, uh, mutations lead to

different, uh, styles, uh, and

553

phenotypes and how things are expressed.

554

How, how a plant works for an animal.

555

And then the environment creates pressure.

556

Some of those succeed

and some of those don't.

557

And we have change in adaptation to the

environment and circumstances and, and

558

the solution that ends up being the most

efficient, you know, ends up passing

559

on into the future generations more.

560

Right.

561

And here we are on the eve of some

of these interesting, uh, things

562

happening in the, in the world due

to ai, where all of a sudden in this

563

virtual space we can go through.

564

A lot of tests of something to see what

works and doesn't work, and it's sort

565

of creating this ability to see how

things evolve in this AI computer virtual

566

space faster than we can in nature by

modeling it out to see what succeeds.

567

But here we are.

568

We've got, even with the most powerful

computers, they still can only

569

look at so many things over time.

570

We've got around us in nature.

571

Millions and actually billions of years

of samples and testing and which thing

572

works and which thing doesn't work.

573

And we've got the, the solution sitting

around us and, and we can, it's so

574

interesting to see examples of this in

us learning how to use something that's

575

been adapted to solve problem A and

learn to adapt to it to solve problem B.

576

So I'm excited to talk about my first

one, Ry is really exciting to me,

577

so thanks for picking this topic.

578

Yeah.

579

The first one I wanna go to, first I have

to also on the topic of Biomed Creek,

580

give a huge shout out to Patrick Ari,

um, who does a podcast for the P B C

581

called 30 Animals That made us smarter.

582

And I remember when this podcast

first started, I listened to the first

583

episode and this sort of lead up to it.

584

I was like so excited about it

and I think I've listened to every

585

single episode along the way.

586

I really encourage our

listeners to go listen to it.

587

It's, it's a lot of fun.

588

He, he does a, a wonderful job with that

podcast and I'm gonna borrow from two

589

of the things I learned from his podcast

over time in what we talk about today.

590

So the first one I wanted to chat about

was, It's an episode called Could Cows

591

Help solve the world's sewage Problem?

592

Hmm.

593

And growing up raising cattle

myself, uh, this was one that like

594

I found particularly interesting.

595

Cattle are a type of, uh,

mammal called a ruminant.

596

They have multiple stomachs that sort

of go through this very interesting

597

process of how they digest their food.

598

Hi, I'm Jen.

599

So you were telling me that

you've been out and having a lot

600

of, um, meeting outside of your

work , with different organizations.

601

Yeah, I've been, um, doing different

things This past week, uh, I was a

602

guest at an annual meeting for an

organization that works with children and

603

adults with developmental disabilities.

604

And then I was at a First Nations event,

uh, a Potlatch because it was National

605

Indigenous People's Day this past week.

606

And so I've been meeting all

different groups of people.

607

And the thing that came to mind

about that, For me for this

608

conversation was climate mindset.

609

Mm.

610

And I wanted to just address climate

mindset and how if you're listening

611

to this podcast, you might have

your pair of climate glasses on.

612

So climate mindset, do you mean caring

about , the climate, Looking at the

613

world through your lenses of climate.

614

Yes.

615

Okay.

616

And how what we're doing as a

species has an impact in every

617

little tiny corner of our existence.

618

Not just the big governmental or corporate

things that are going on, but also in

619

our everyday tiny little decisions and.

620

I know that I walk around

with this set of glasses on.

621

Yes.

622

And I, I know that probably the people

listening do, but I wonder how, because

623

I find it personally very frustrating

when I'm in the lineup at the grocery

624

store and I've got my mesh re washable

bags to put fruit in and I'm not.

625

Putting every single thing in a plastic

bag, and I'm bringing my own cloth bags

626

and I'm being super careful about the

plastic use, and then the person next

627

to me puts every single thing into

a separate plastic bag, and I just

628

wanna whack my head against the wall.

629

But, but it, I realize they

don't have that climate mindset.

630

Yeah, well, they, they might not have the

same mindset, but maybe they don't have

631

the same constraints or, you know, they

are coming from, I don't know if they put

632

, their stuff in different plastic bags.

633

They must have their own reasons.

634

I don't know.

635

Absolutely.

636

And I think you were talking about

somebody who does workshops around,

637

uh, bringing people together

who have different points of

638

view and learning from that and.

639

An example that comes to mind is

a few years ago, Vancouver, which

640

is where I live, they decided they

were gonna ban plastic drinking

641

straws, and I think they did.

642

Mm-hmm.

643

And I thought this was excellent.

644

Who needs a straw?

645

You know, you used to always get a

straw when they'd bring you a drink

646

at a restaurant, et cetera, and

most of the time it would just go.

647

Tossed in the garbage or you know, used

for 10 seconds and then thrown away.

648

And I thought, oh, this is fantastic.

649

And then I was on an online discussion

somewhere about this, you know, and

650

it's always dangerous to read the

comments, but I was reading the comments

651

and a person from the disability

community said It can be critical for

652

people with a disability who can't.

653

Bring a cup to their mouth to have

a straw to be able to drink through.

654

And I, and, and that, that community

was gonna be affected by this.

655

My name is Joe Hines.

656

I live in the United States, in the

state of Virginia, and I am a solar punk.

657

I've, I've been trying to live a

more solar punk life actively for

658

the past three years, maybe a little

bit longer, but, uh, solar punk was

659

also something that found me, right?

660

Like I, I, I was living my normal

life trying to do good things.

661

And then I finally had a friend

that shared a mean with me.

662

And that meme included, uh, talking

about the difference between what a

663

prepper was and what a solar punk was.

664

And I really realized that I

was much more of a solar punk.

665

And, uh, and so we find a lot of times in,

I've been trying with my YouTube channel

666

to spread the word of what solar punk

is and kind of evangelize a little bit.

667

And we find that a lot of people have

the same reaction that they will.

668

See what a solar punk is.

669

They see hair defy it.

670

They go, oh, well I already

do a lot of that stuff.

671

Maybe I'm a solar punk.

672

And, uh, we, so we get

that reaction a lot.

673

So, you know, welcome to the

movement is what I like to say.

674

And, uh, you're not wrong.

675

We are all about trying to

spread, uh, positive message that

676

things are, things can be okay.

677

And that if we all get together and work

towards things that we can all together

678

make, uh, positive changes for the future.

679

Um, There's a quote out there somewhere

that says, everybody likes to think about

680

TR time travel and going back in time to

make some small change and how it affects

681

the future that we are living in now.

682

Very few people think about being able

to make a small change now and how it'll

683

affect the future 20 years from now,

and yet it's the same power, right?

684

We don't need a time machine.

685

We can make changes now.

686

Joe, that's, that's really exciting.

687

I'd, I, I feel like there's a chance

you're about to have a few more people

688

formally join your movement, uh, during

today's recording session and maybe even

689

more as our listeners listen, because I,

I feel like the vibes you're giving fit

690

in well with, uh, with what we've been

doing with the Carbon Almanac community

691

and sort of like trying to make change

for, for that 20 years and the 200 years.

692

And the two years, you know, all

the different, uh, time Horizons a

693

absolutely, but, but we believe in

the, the part it's not too late.

694

Um, you know, so let's go,

make some change happen.

695

Um, you know, my first question for you

is, can you give us a little bit more

696

like what define solar punk life for us

and some of the main fur listeners today?

697

Like what are the things that If you

weren't dueling solar or punk, like,

698

would be a little bit differently.

699

Give a little bit of context of

what, what's different, because

700

you've got this lens on through

which you look at your daily, and

701

I think you hit on the key phrase

right there is the, the lens, right?

702

Because it's not necessarily about what

you do, it's more so about how you think

703

about approaching the world, how you

think about approaching your community,

704

and that impacts the decisions that

you make in, in small and big ways.

705

So small ways, small things that we do

to try to live a more solar punk life

706

is we look at how much waste do we

generate in our normal, uh, daily lives,

707

and how can we minimize that waste?

708

Do we need to buy that thing?

709

Maybe not.

710

Can we prioritize buying things that

don't come with as much plastic packaging?

711

Yes, we probably can't.

712

Um, my wife and I, you know, we

live in a, a single family home.

713

We have our daughters 14 years old.

714

Um, we live in suburbia, right?

715

So we kinda live the average or

probably slightly above average

716

North American lifestyle.

717

And that means that we're in the top,

probably 5% consumers in the world, right?

718

OLABANJI: And so there's the carbon

Almanac that says, Hey, read, here's

719

how to protect the earth or preserve

the ecosystem that we have right now.

720

And we're doing that on one hand.

721

But I think on the other

hand, we also have to.

722

I don't know, find ways to be

ready for what is already changing,

723

because this is going to be gradual.

724

If where we're going to make progress

to ensure that we don't experience

725

too many more changes, but right now

we're already experiencing changes and

726

chances are, we will experience will

continue to experience them for awhile.

727

Maybe before things take a turn.

728

And so I think we're, it's

a two-sided thing here.

729

If I don't know if that makes any sense

730

STEVE: Yeah, a lot of the

memories we've got again.

731

The strongest ones go back to when we were

732

children.

733

and when we were younger, we

would kind of remember things.

734

Do you remember those

really long, hot summers?

735

Uh, when

736

we weren't at school, we had the

school, vacations holidays, and I

737

think, well, yeah, but that's,

what is that to do with my memory?

738

Kind of painting this amazing thing

that was a long, hot summer, because

739

I didn't have any responsibilities.

740

Whereas now.

741

You know, I I'm the through the year.

742

It seems.

743

don't, I don't have that long six

week, six week break in the middle

744

of, so some of those early memories,

uh, I kind of slightly suspect maybe.

745

In the, I grew up in the

Northeast of England.

746

So it was further north

and there is a difference.

747

And it's probably a few weeks in

terms of the temperature difference.

748

So that the things that would be, um,

fruiting, for example, so blackberries.

749

So, uh, they grow and

they produce the fruit.

750

In the school terms.

751

Cause that was the connection.

752

Uh, in terms of the, when I, when I was a

child, there was the, the main school term

753

you've got the, you go back in September

and then the half term between, you know,

754

between the two, this is the problem.

755

I've probably two people who I've got a

different kind of school timetable and I'm

756

using words you might not recognize, but

it's halfway between, uh, starting after

757

the summer and, and finishing for Chris.

758

Kind of the holiday period

of then so it's a half term.

759

So it's halfway.

760

And that week that, that we used to

have off was called Blackberry week.

761

It was kind of as a nickname for it.

762

And that's when you pick, you

went and picked blackberries

763

that's when they were fruiting.

764

So that was when that was going

to be kind of October-ish.

765

No, no, no, no.

766

That way before Venn now.

767

So, but the way before that, now , here.

768

We, we, we get sort of, sometimes you can

start to get, if it's a sunny spot, you

769

can start to have them in July, but it's

certainly in August, that whole thing

770

seems to have slid and come a lot earlier.

771

And, uh, what does that do for the.

772

The ecology of the animals that

rely on the birds and the, and the

773

animals that relying on the fruit

being at a time, which builds them

774

up enough to go through the winter.

775

But it's a long way from the winter.

776

If they're coming a lot earlier,

they're not having the food stores

777

or, you know, feeding themselves up.

778

So there's a definite effect.

779

And some of that, we're not going to

see today or notice in a short term,

780

it's going to be that long-term.

781

Tanya, you, you played golf as well.

782

Didn't you?

783

? Yes.

784

I made a concerted effort many years

ago to play, um, because that was.

785

My, you know, my husband's sport.

786

And so, you know, lessen the whole

nine yards and played regular,

787

you know, somewhat regularly.

788

And so, you know, this topic was, is of

interest to me because I'm interested

789

in the tension between recreation and

natural resource management and golf

790

courses, especially here in Southern

California are so well just yesterday.

791

They've been told they need

to cut back on their watering.

792

And so, um, you know, I'm interested.

793

Interested in how this will affect the

sport, that form of recreation, and

794

also interested in what the, how the

experience will change for players,

795

uh, at both amateur and pros and was

wondering what in the golf community,

796

what, uh, is the thinking or the

reactions that you've observed about

797

having to let courses go brown or,

you know, have to cut back on water.

798

Yeah, I'm a AC I'm in upstate New York.

799

So we don't really have a water

problem, but I'm well aware of it.

800

I would say for us in the Northeast,

we probably think about, I'm not an

801

expert in, uh, course management, but

we probably think about diseases and

802

we actually get too much rain at times.

803

I remember last year we had

about a month or three weeks.

804

Nonstop rain and the courses

were really hurting from that.

805

I haven't heard a lot of talk about

golf and the sustainability of golf.

806

So I'm really excited to have this

conversation with you guys ever since

807

joining the carbon Almanac, I've brought

it up with a few people and I just played

808

golf with someone last weekend, who.

809

Uh, watches over and takes care of the

bird species on our local golf courses.

810

And I had a great conversation

with him about what he he's doing.

811

That that sounds amazing.

812

I think the goal here is to not

lose the golf course, right.

813

Or the golf courses, and still

keep them carbon neutral or.

814

You know of some sort, right?

815

We, we don't wanna lose the game.

816

Um, we don't wanna lose the contribution

that it makes to the economy, to the

817

lives of people and, you know, just like

you, but we also don't want to, we don't

818

want it to hurt the, the environment.

819

So the golf course can be carbon positive

and it can be carbon negative, but I,

820

but I think we need to find the balance.

821

And perhaps we should talk about some of

the things that are, that are possible

822

with finding the balance, be between that.

823

Um, Tanya, what do you think.

824

I think, um, finding the

balance is, is necessary.

825

I mean, I don't think

it's an option anymore.

826

It isn't something to think about

for the future it's happening now.

827

And for around here, especially

with yesterday's news.

828

I was, you know, the, the article in the

Los Angeles times talks about golf courses

829

having to decide what is functional

grass and what is nonfunctional grass.

830

Yeah.

831

And.

832

You know, I was thinking then, well, if

the greens are the most expensive part

833

of the golf course that the greens would

get priority and then the fairway and

834

then the rough would be the I'm assuming

would be the last, uh, lowest on the list.

835

but from a player's perspective.

836

Yeah.

837

Um, you know, how, how does that affect

play, do you think, or might affect play?

838

ELISA: I grew up in Northern California

in the San Francisco bay area.

839

And it was like clockwork

in November to March.

840

We would have rain.

841

And it was the only time of the

year when we had any rain, you know,

842

it's like Mediterranean climate.

843

So, you know, I'd be walking to

school and there would be a storm and

844

I'd have to have my umbrella ready.

845

And so you could really depend on.

846

But I guess the last 20 years or

so, it's been changing so radically.

847

They don't get almost any

rain anymore in California.

848

And the last time I was there in 2000, 19

wildfire season was really out of control.

849

And there were 140,000 people

under evacuation orders in

850

my county due to wildfires.

851

So it's now fire season all

year round and there's no rain.

852

So it's a really big shift.

853

JENN: We should probably

find out where everybody is.

854

Wow.

855

Where, where are you doing?

856

JO: I'm in sunny, south of

France, where it has been raining

857

for a long, long time now.

858

Um, but I'm a, actually a digital nomad.

859

So, um, every, every place I go is new.

860

I've never really accustomed to

the weather in any specific place.

861

I'm always the new guy, but I

listened to the Hebrews wherever I go.

862

So when you bring out is

not complaining about.

863

Even though it's raining.

864

It's very strange.

865

It's raining consistently,

but not enough to.

866

So Kim

867

JENN: and Rob, where are you?

868

ROB: I'm in Birmingham and interested in

Joe's comment there actually, because it

869

reminded me of, I suppose, about six years

old, I used to go to Wales on holidays.

870

We'd stay in a caravan and a while we had.

871

On the holidays and I'd be disappointed.

872

Cause I wanted to go out

and play on the beach.

873

There was this waterfall that we would go

and visit when we arrived in kenaf and we

874

would walk down to the waterfall and it

was this cascade of water and salmon would

875

jump up and it was very exciting to see.

876

But I decided to treat my children

and take them there this one summer.

877

And that was about 15 years

ago and we traveled down.

878

Took it for about four hours to get there.

879

And when we arrived, I was standing by

the riverbank and my children were looking

880

at me saying, is this what you see?

881

And there was this tiny,

tiny trickle of water.

882

My wife is looking at me

thinking, what is he up to?

883

And it's exactly what Joe was saying.

884

There's more rain, but there

was such, I couldn't believe how

885

little water was going over this

waterfall, although you can't use.

886

And itself has evidence of climate change.

887

It's certainly it's that amongst many

other things that start to make you feel

888

a bit worried about what's going on.

889

ELISA: Yeah.

890

That's a really good point.

891

Leekei: And so our entry point is plastic.

892

JENN: Yes,

893

absolutely.

894

And all the plastics, and we have

a special guest with us today.

895

Who's not really a guest because he's part

of the carbon Almanac and doing a whole

896

bunch of stuff behind the scenes, but

he happens to be an expert in this area.

897

So let's welcome, Rob,

898

ROB: Hi, Hi.

899

JENN: should we say Dr.

900

Rob?

901

ROB: It can be Dr.

902

Rob.

903

Yeah.

904

JENN: Tell us what you do, Rob.

905

, ROB: I'm an orthodontist.

906

Uh, so I treat, , adults and children.

907

So my main role is, uh,

straightening teeth.

908

We also get involved with,

uh, tooth whitening as well.

909

So, uh, I, I think that one, one area.

910

That I quite like is moving

towards, , toothpaste tablets.

911

They're not really toothpaste, but

they're a tablet instead of, , a paste.

912

Um, , the big problem with

toothpastes is that often the.

913

The toothpaste itself, the tube

itself is made outta a combination.

914

Sometimes plastics try to move away

from metals cuz the combination

915

of metal and plastic makes them

even more difficult to recycle.

916

if you've got plastics,

then rolling them up.

917

There's some companies actually

even will try to design it.

918

So that 10% of the toothpaste is

left in the tube that you can't get.

919

BEC that 10% is wasted and all of these,

uh, toothpastes have got microplastics in.

920

So we're putting these microplastics

in our mouth, which help to

921

scour the surface of the enamel.

922

But we then spit that into, , the.

923

Water supply goes off, down, into

the water waste, , and, uh, of

924

course into our rivers and streams.

925

So , that's quite a worrying thing.

926

And I think that if we can move

towards other forms of, um, perhaps

927

toothpaste that don't have microplastics

in or, uh, toothpaste tablets, and

928

that could be a good move forward,

929

JENN: I was, I was shocked to learn

that not that long ago, that there were

930

microplastics right in the toothpaste

931

and we ordered some tooth

tablets, but they had to come

932

from the UK and we're in Canada.

933

It took forever to get this bottle, but

it was a great big bottle and it it's

934

still going two years later or something,

but You know, then there's the whole

935

question of, , you know, does it work?

936

Are you supposed to have fluoride,

, like there's all those questions and

937

then, um, we've tried the tooth PA

like the pace that you can buy in

938

the health food store that's made

with clay and things like that.

939

And, uh, and that works, but it,

again, it's more expensive than the

940

ones that That are mass produced.

941

That aren't good for the planet, right?

942

It's the same old issue.

943

ROB: yeah.

944

And I think the, the they're small

companies very often, so their margins are

945

much more difficult to, , , to achieve.

946

And as a result, they're trying

to work around that by creating a

947

subscription model for their business.

948

But I contacted, um, a tablet company

a few weeks back, uh, Interested

949

to find out what they offered

to the dental profession, dental

950

professionals, dental practices.

951

And I just haven't had a response back

and I've had that happen a few times

952

over the years just don't respond.

953

So I think they're clearly wanting

to go direct to the consumer

954

because that's where they feel

, the proper profit is for them.

955

Leekei: Yeah, but also

because, um, there's small

956

companies and there's startups.

957

And so this is something I see

a lot that small companies, the

958

founders spend a lot of time, energy

on developing their product and

959

don't really take care of sales.

960

, there's different sales

channels they can get to.

961

So I don't think it's because

they are not very interested.

962

Maybe it's because they are

not very well organized as

963

well.

964

ROB: Yeah, yeah.

965

That, I think that's absolutely right.

966

Yeah.

967

, and , some of the earlier tablets

didn't have fluoride at all.

968

And I.

969

I always feel that fluoride , is

a good thing , to have in

970

a, a tooth cleaning product.

971

And, um, if people are worried

about fluoride, I often

972

say, well, do you drink tea?

973

Cause most people do.

974

, the average tea leaf

contains, , a thousand parts.

975

Perme fluoride, just

the same as toothpaste.

976

So there's a huge

amount of fluoride in it.

977

It does favorably suck up fluoride.

978

And although that isn't available

fluoride to your mouth, when you drink

979

tea, , there is a reasonable amount in

terms of the volume you're drinking.

980

So you.

981

Could probably end up taking in more

fluoride per year by drinking tea

982

than you would buy, using toothpaste

983

JENN: There you go, you

learn something every day.

984

I didn't know that

985

I'm studying video games,

digital art course at Birmingham

986

City Uni, and I found out.

987

Something quite interesting about,

um, how video games are linked

988

with sustainability on the planet.

989

So for me, um, I think gaming, yeah,

it's a, it's a window into the future

990

how we will be living in the future.

991

You know, today we live in mostly

in the real world, but in the

992

future it's very possible that we're

living mostly in the virtual world.

993

And if we live in the virtual world, when

we buy something, Buy clothing or buy a

994

car or buy a house, whatever it is that

we, uh, that we buy, and to show off to

995

our friends about how great we are, which

is why we buy clothes, which is why we

996

buy bigger cars and live in bigger houses.

997

It's just to show off to our friends.

998

Yeah, this is all about status, but

if we gain our status by virtual

999

objects, then at the end of life of

that , virtual object, there is no

00:56:01,442 --> 00:56:06,407

garbage., Every piece of clothing

that we buy turns into garbage.

00:56:07,093 --> 00:56:10,213

every object that we

buy turns into garbage.

00:56:10,783 --> 00:56:12,283

And so this is the big problem.

00:56:12,333 --> 00:56:16,053

We mine resources and we create garbage.

00:56:16,053 --> 00:56:19,863

That's basically what we

do in a virtual world.

00:56:19,863 --> 00:56:23,583

We don't need to do that when we're

done with our object, when it's lost its

00:56:23,583 --> 00:56:26,768

value, , then we can just say it's gone.

00:56:27,423 --> 00:56:29,393

And there's no trace left behind.

00:56:29,393 --> 00:56:37,733

So I really think that in the future,

if we can get our status by, you know,

00:56:37,738 --> 00:56:41,693

something in the virtual world, that's

much, much better than something gaining

00:56:41,698 --> 00:56:43,793

status with an object in the real world.

00:56:44,543 --> 00:56:44,663

Okay.

00:56:45,353 --> 00:56:47,723

I think that's one of many

first year video games.

00:56:47,753 --> 00:56:49,403

Uh, um,

00:56:52,058 --> 00:56:54,848

Have going forward into the

gaming industry regarding

00:56:54,848 --> 00:56:56,468

this sustainability problem?

00:56:57,004 --> 00:56:57,891

Um, yeah.

00:56:57,891 --> 00:57:05,420

Think about, um, what gives you

status in a game and, uh, I would,

00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:10,250

I would love for you to gain status

in a game by doing something good

00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:13,090

instead of like killing somebody.

00:57:14,330 --> 00:57:19,520

So, uh, you know, this, there's,

there's so much, um, how can I

00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,230

say, violence in video games.

00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,770

And I think this is just because the

audience is young boys who are going

00:57:27,775 --> 00:57:34,100

through their rite of passage to become

an adult, and they think that, uh,

00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:40,070

that by showing their ability to, I

don't know, out kill somebody else.

00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:43,070

That, that is a form of status.

00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:43,580

Yeah.

00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:48,620

But I, I think we need to change

that status to, uh, how can I

00:57:48,620 --> 00:57:50,030

say, doing good in the world.

00:57:50,035 --> 00:57:50,090

Mm-hmm.

00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,440

I'm, I'm working on a, on

a, you wanna call it a game?

00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:55,490

That's okay.

00:57:56,090 --> 00:58:00,620

It's certainly, I'm using a,

uh, my, my, how can I say my

00:58:00,620 --> 00:58:03,320

background as a, as a game designer.

00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,130

I, I created the first role

00:58:07,130 --> 00:58:08,810

Just to give you some background.

00:58:09,380 --> 00:58:12,290

The game that I'm working on

is, is all in the real world.

00:58:12,860 --> 00:58:16,790

People ask me at the end of

my speech, what can I do?

00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:20,690

And I always say, I'm sorry,

I don't know what you can do

00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:23,450

because I am me and you are, you.

00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:27,500

Only you can figure out what

you can do and what you will

00:58:27,505 --> 00:58:29,090

do, and you should do that.

00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:33,830

But then I see people with puzzled look

and they say, oh my God, they, they

00:58:33,830 --> 00:58:37,670

don't know where to start because the

problems that they face are so big.

00:58:38,855 --> 00:58:42,335

You know, what can a single person

do to fix such a huge problem?

00:58:43,055 --> 00:58:48,695

And so, um, my game is I create a

list of things for people to do.

00:58:49,805 --> 00:58:52,925

And in the beginning there's

small, like turn off a light in

00:58:52,925 --> 00:58:57,126

a, uh, in the room where there's

no people, or pick up a piece of

00:58:57,126 --> 00:58:58,446

rubbish and put in the rubbish can.

00:58:58,446 --> 00:58:59,346

It gives you one point.

00:58:59,886 --> 00:59:04,176

You do add up a bunch of single

pointers and then you go up a level.

00:59:04,746 --> 00:59:08,256

You go up a level, we give you bigger

things to do that's role playing.

00:59:08,256 --> 00:59:12,133

So you go up levels, uh, and then we

give you those big, you do a bunch

00:59:12,133 --> 00:59:13,693

of those and you go up another level.

00:59:14,113 --> 00:59:17,923

Now, one way to make points is

by doing the actions that you

00:59:17,923 --> 00:59:20,083

find on our list of things to do.

00:59:20,623 --> 00:59:24,673

But the other thing that you can do,

which is making you more points, is you

00:59:24,673 --> 00:59:27,313

can create things to do for other people.

00:59:28,183 --> 00:59:32,443

If you create a thing to do for other

people that is sticky and a lot of other

00:59:32,443 --> 00:59:34,063

people do it, you get a lot of points.

00:59:34,633 --> 00:59:39,703

So then it becomes a competition

to see who can make the most sticky

00:59:39,703 --> 00:59:41,653

or the most actionable actions.

00:59:42,163 --> 00:59:45,583

And then we can look at the actions

and we can do a calculation,

00:59:45,583 --> 00:59:50,893

what's the, like carbon footprint,

reduction of that action.

00:59:51,823 --> 00:59:55,333

Uh, and, and then we start being

able to calculate how many.

00:59:56,278 --> 00:59:58,288

People are doing some action and so on.

00:59:58,858 --> 01:00:03,148

And then the idea is that when you

get to level five or level six, then

01:00:03,148 --> 01:00:04,828

you get benefits in the real world.

01:00:05,128 --> 01:00:09,658

Like you get to buy tickets first

for the next concert, or you get the

01:00:09,663 --> 01:00:16,198

best seats or you get, um, considered

for a promotion first in, in your

01:00:16,228 --> 01:00:17,908

company, uh, that kind of thing.

01:00:17,913 --> 01:00:23,278

So yeah, I think that in the

beginning it, it will be like a game.

01:00:23,938 --> 01:00:26,908

Uh, but at the end it'll

be become very serious.

01:00:27,568 --> 01:00:35,008

And, uh, the actions that you do, the

AI watches, which actions you choose.

01:00:35,848 --> 01:00:39,388

And so it predicts what action

you're most likely to do next.

01:00:39,868 --> 01:00:47,308

So the AI will lead you to whatever

your field of interest is and make you.

01:00:47,683 --> 01:00:49,363

A hero in that direction.

01:00:49,974 --> 01:00:50,874

Good day everyone.

01:00:50,874 --> 01:00:55,794

I'm Kate Field and I am from

Tasmania, a little town called

01:00:55,794 --> 01:00:58,554

Copping Tasmania is part of Australia.

01:00:58,584 --> 01:01:02,724

It's the little island off

the Bo Southeast of Australia.

01:01:03,684 --> 01:01:04,284

Wonderful.

01:01:04,284 --> 01:01:08,514

I am very excited to be here today

with you too, because we all have

01:01:08,514 --> 01:01:10,674

regenerative farming in common.

01:01:10,854 --> 01:01:13,644

I'd love to know your backgrounds

in regenerative farming.

01:01:13,674 --> 01:01:14,994

We can start with you, Kate.

01:01:15,084 --> 01:01:20,214

So my husband and I, uh, came

01:01:20,219 --> 01:01:22,134

only been farmers for 10 years.

01:01:22,554 --> 01:01:25,614

He started out as an ecologist,

so he was a scientist.

01:01:25,704 --> 01:01:28,764

He was working for Macquarie

University in Sydney at that

01:01:28,764 --> 01:01:33,204

time, and he was specifically

looking at the ecology of marine

01:01:33,204 --> 01:01:35,664

vertebrates in the Anta and sub anta.

01:01:36,384 --> 01:01:40,914

So pretty different from what he's

doing now in one sense, but very

01:01:40,914 --> 01:01:43,314

similar in that it's all about.

01:01:43,539 --> 01:01:47,769

Ecology ecosystems and how

everything interacts with each

01:01:47,769 --> 01:01:49,299

other in a natural setting.

01:01:50,169 --> 01:01:54,399

Uh, we were living in Sydney,

so that was living with, uh, 20%

01:01:54,404 --> 01:01:58,629

of Australia's population, and

it's not a town that's set up for

01:01:58,629 --> 01:02:00,819

transport and ease of transportation.

01:02:00,999 --> 01:02:05,079

We weren't really enjoying living

in Sydney, and we'd always dreamed

01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:09,459

one day that we'd have our own farm,

but we were also dreaming about

01:02:09,464 --> 01:02:11,649

having a commercial cheese operation.

01:02:12,219 --> 01:02:17,979

turning point in our, our lives and our

01:02:17,979 --> 01:02:23,829

careers, and we decided that we would

become commercial cheese manufacturers.

01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:27,519

And of course, to make

cheese, you need to have milk.

01:02:27,939 --> 01:02:31,299

And so we made a decision that

we wanted to ensure quality

01:02:31,299 --> 01:02:33,489

milk and to have quality milk.

01:02:33,489 --> 01:02:38,199

We felt that we needed to guarantee the

health and the happiness of the animals,

01:02:38,589 --> 01:02:40,209

which meant that we needed to buy a farm.

01:02:41,094 --> 01:02:45,174

So we looked in a various few

places around Australia as to

01:02:45,174 --> 01:02:50,364

where we wanted to purchase a farm,

and we settled back to Tasmania.

01:02:50,364 --> 01:02:54,204

We'd both been to university here

in Tasmania and decided to return.

01:02:54,204 --> 01:02:59,094

His parents had migrated from the UK

to live in Tassie, and so we were,

01:02:59,154 --> 01:03:00,834

felt like we were returning home.

01:03:01,074 --> 01:03:06,234

We found a fabulous patch of land

that fulfilled our needs in terms of

01:03:06,234 --> 01:03:12,234

proximity to the hospital because I

also work as an emergency doctor and

01:03:12,264 --> 01:03:16,224

proximity to the airport in case I

couldn't get a job back in Hobart and

01:03:16,284 --> 01:03:18,534

needed to fly in and out for work.

01:03:19,024 --> 01:03:25,913

And we looked at the landscape and

decided, uh, that the best mammal to have

01:03:25,913 --> 01:03:28,404

for milk production was gonna be goats.

01:03:28,464 --> 01:03:33,624

So we actually chose our livestock

for our landscape rather than

01:03:33,624 --> 01:03:38,244

buying a bit of land and forcing

it to do what we wanted it to do.

01:03:38,779 --> 01:03:44,689

Our value system, our um, ethos is

to work with nature and to utilize

01:03:44,689 --> 01:03:50,389

nature to be able to produce

really good high quality food.

01:03:51,019 --> 01:03:53,959

So that's kind of how we

got into it, through cheese.

01:03:54,853 --> 01:04:00,828

I wanted to pivot a little bit

and, and talk about, um, Talk about

01:04:00,828 --> 01:04:03,948

sustainability because this is like

one of the core themes in your book.

01:04:03,948 --> 01:04:08,498

I mean, okay, we were touching on this

already, but, um, one of the first things

01:04:08,498 --> 01:04:13,688

that I, that I learned, um, while reading

your book was just this, uh, this very old

01:04:13,698 --> 01:04:18,288

definition of sustainability and how it

like has, uh, has multiple parts to it.

01:04:18,288 --> 01:04:21,008

Can you speak a little bit about

this for, uh, for, for our audience?

01:04:22,138 --> 01:04:22,338

Yeah.

01:04:22,338 --> 01:04:25,748

So, I mean, I think there are just

multiple definitions of sustainability

01:04:25,758 --> 01:04:27,278

and I think like, it's very.

01:04:27,968 --> 01:04:29,438

It's totally fine to debate those.

01:04:29,658 --> 01:04:33,008

I think as an environmentalist,

my, and my, coming at that from

01:04:33,008 --> 01:04:36,848

my background, I would often frame

just sustainability as having a low

01:04:36,848 --> 01:04:41,908

environmental impact so we don't ruin

the planet for future generations and

01:04:42,008 --> 01:04:43,718

other species on the planet as well.

01:04:44,208 --> 01:04:48,878

But I think to me that that's

a bit of a limiting definition.

01:04:48,948 --> 01:04:52,828

And the reason I say that is because it's

not just about having a low environmental

01:04:52,828 --> 01:04:54,118

impact for future generations.

01:04:54,128 --> 01:04:55,988

I also care about the

current generation, right?

01:04:55,988 --> 01:04:57,308

I care about human suffering.

01:04:57,628 --> 01:05:00,248

I think everyone alive today

should have access to like a

01:05:00,338 --> 01:05:02,098

good high standard of living.

01:05:02,708 --> 01:05:06,888

And actually that comes to the definition

that's like a bit more like a conventional

01:05:06,888 --> 01:05:11,758

sustainable development definition, which

has two halves and one half is meeting

01:05:11,758 --> 01:05:13,248

the needs of the current generation.

01:05:13,268 --> 01:05:19,308

So ensuring that eight billion people

have a good life and, um, not sacrificing

01:05:19,468 --> 01:05:21,168

opportunities for future generations.

01:05:21,178 --> 01:05:23,338

So that's about having a

low environmental impact.

01:05:23,788 --> 01:05:27,948

So basically provide a good

life for everyone without having

01:05:27,978 --> 01:05:29,428

a high environmental impact.

01:05:29,848 --> 01:05:34,123

I think the argument I put forth in

the book is that historically We've

01:05:34,123 --> 01:05:37,313

actually never really achieved both

of those halves at the same time.

01:05:37,493 --> 01:05:40,433

I think we have this notion that

we've only become unsustainable

01:05:40,463 --> 01:05:43,633

in the very recent past, and I

actually don't really think that's

01:05:43,693 --> 01:05:45,283

true based on this definition.

01:05:45,653 --> 01:05:49,473

And the reason is our ancestors might

have had a low environmental impact,

01:05:49,793 --> 01:05:53,423

but they did not have high standards

of living, at least not by our

01:05:53,423 --> 01:05:55,258

kind of modern definitions of that.

01:05:55,318 --> 01:05:59,998

And the example I use in the book

is, is child mortality, where for

01:05:59,998 --> 01:06:03,468

most of human history, between a

third and a half of children were

01:06:03,468 --> 01:06:05,568

dying before reaching puberty, right?

01:06:05,578 --> 01:06:09,478

That's like unimaginable levels to, like,

we could never imagine those levels today,

01:06:09,478 --> 01:06:11,408

that half of children would, would die.

01:06:11,798 --> 01:06:15,358

But that was like, the reality

for most of human history.

01:06:15,748 --> 01:06:19,698

What we've had over the last few centuries

is almost like a tipping where human

01:06:19,698 --> 01:06:23,368

living standards have improved a lot

and they've improved across the world.

01:06:23,378 --> 01:06:27,678

This is not just like, uh, elites

have, have, um, living conditions

01:06:27,678 --> 01:06:28,748

for the elites have improved.

01:06:28,908 --> 01:06:31,038

Like child mortality has

fallen across the world.

01:06:31,478 --> 01:06:33,308

Extreme poverty has

fallen across the world.

01:06:33,338 --> 01:06:37,428

We have education, vaccines, like

we've made amazing human progress

01:06:37,428 --> 01:06:40,028

over the last few centuries, but it's

came at the cost of the environment.

01:06:40,028 --> 01:06:42,828

So we are now face all of

these environmental crises.

01:06:43,373 --> 01:06:46,053

And the argument I put forth in the

book is that I think we could be

01:06:46,053 --> 01:06:49,373

the first generation that does both

of these things at the same time.

01:06:49,843 --> 01:06:53,663

I think it is possible to

continue human progress with

01:06:53,693 --> 01:06:55,213

a lower environmental impact.

01:06:55,253 --> 01:06:57,553

And I think that we would

be, in some sense, the first