French tennis player Laurent Lokoli joins the Functional Tennis Podcast to share his journey through the highs and lows of professional tennis. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on individual game styles rather than just results, advising young players to stay true to their strengths. Throughout the conversation, Laurent discusses players' challenges on the circuit, including mental health and the pressures of consistency at different levels, from futures to the ATP tour. He reflects on his experiences qualifying for Grand Slams and the emotional rollercoaster that comes with the sport. As he looks ahead to his future, Laurent expresses a desire to help others and continue sharing his love for tennis through his YouTube channel.

Hope you enjoy

Fabio

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Welcome to the Functional Tennis Podcast.

I'm your host Fabio Molli and I bring you insights and lessons from players, coaches, parents and experts who are ingrained in the world of high level tennis. Today I chat to French player Laurent Lochouly. Laurent has had many ups and downs throughout his career, which we discuss.

He shares valuable advice for young players, emphasizing the importance of focusing on their game rather than results.

Laurent explains the differences between various player levels in futures challenges and ATP tour level, highlighting the significance of consistency and mental health in achieving success.

He discusses the various challenges and experience faced by pros, including the long season and mental health issues, and the balance between career and financial opportunities. And we touch on a few other topics.

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And if you dig even deeper, the Resolution 8 won four years ago. So Asics are definitely on top of the shoe game in tennis worldwide. My solution speeds, unfortunately we're only quarter finalists.

Hello. Thank you very much. I'm good and you?

Good. Yeah. My first question for you is how are the dance moves these days?

Oh, it's been a while since I didn't do it with Gael. I miss it actually. I the vibes that we had that day on the center court in Allongaros and I also talked with a guy on Twitter.

So like couple of weeks ago he told me that he's too old now for it and I said you're not too old, you just have it like inside your veins. And I just, yeah, I wish that we can do one more in the future and on the same course Chatrier at home.

I hope that we can do it again but it's been a while that I didn't dance but I still love it.

Yeah, the rematch has has to happen but one of the early videos on functional tennis that would go viral a lot was that video. But Instagram or not Instagram more, I think the French Federation would one allow us to post it. So every time we put it up they'd get it taken down.

So we haven't posted in, I don't know, in many years now, but it was definitely. It always did well, those dance moves.

I think we made over 5 million. I think a view of. Yeah, on YouTube, on the channel of the French Federation.

I know it went viral, but when, you know, it's the type of thing that you are just doing it because you leave it, you love it. But I didn't know that it's going to get like viral like that, you know, I just enjoyed it so much.

10 years ago. So you were. How old were you there? 19. 20.

Yeah, I was 19 back at the day and I was about to turn 20. So. Okay, yeah, time flies.

What was your ranking back then?

I had an invitation from the French Federation. I received a Wii card. I think I was the last one that received like the eight ones, like the last one. And that was 420, I think.

And I, yeah, it was my first LAN. Like, I was discovering, like the slum atmosphere. I used to watch it on TV the year before I watched it, like on tv. I was like, in the.

In the future, like I think in Croatia or like in Serbia or Bosnia or something like that. And then I went into the court for the qualities and I won my first game and I said, oh, okay, so here we are.

I won the first one, then the second one, I saved match points and I won again. And I said, okay, this is. Wow. Like, I didn't expect that because I was like, 400. My best victory was a guy that was at maybe 300 something.

So I didn't expect, you know, like to. I beat a guy like in the second round, he was 19, the world. And then after I. I beat last round, Paul Kinovic, that after he handed.

He handed the year, like, maybe, I don't know, top 70 or top 80 or something like this. And I qualified. So out of nowhere, I was the only French also. It was many things.

Were you like, this is easy. What? This is really easy?

Like, no, it was tough. It was super tough, but just, you know, like, it was the first time for me. I was super pumped. My game went super well.

And yeah, everything, everything went the way that I was. I was hoping and expecting, you know, like, I didn't have, like, even if I saved, like, the match points against Donskoi in the second round.

But after that I felt like I was on the clouds, you know, like I was playing unbelievable tennis. And unfortunately, after I lost in the first round with match points, and it was.

Yeah, it was heartbreaking moment for me, but after it was such a great experience that I enjoyed like so much to qualify in the slam and to. To be able to play in this kind of event.

How do you play juniors there?

Yeah, I did was one year before that when I was like 17 or 16, and after, when I was 17, so I played two times how long I was in the. In the main and juniors, and a third time when I was 15. I think I lost in qualities, you know, something like this. Yeah.

And your age group, what are the French players?

Who.

Who did you grow up playing with?

Oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep the famous one for the last one with Borg Matthias, you mean? Only French. Only French. So Borg Matthias, then he was Barer.

Gregoire, that is, he used to be top 50. And Lucas Puy.

Okay, nice. Okay. Yeah, Tough year. I'm sure every year is tough if you're French.

Yeah, every year is tough, but especially this one, it was super tough.

Normally when I was at the French Federation and the system was going on in a way that a guy that is the two best of the year, usually they go to Roland, but that year we were four with almost the same level, and they said, okay, we have to take the four. So they took four of us and we went to Roland Garros at the same time. So it was. Yeah, it was a tough year. Tough year.

And so just jumping back to your, you know, that year at Roland Garros where obviously the dancing went viral, but also your game went viral too, because got true quality save match points. Match points in round one.

It'd be probably easier to answer this question if just one of those things happened, but did something like a viral video help you early in your career to get more attention for yourself, for sponsors, or did any good come at that video for you?

I don't think that he helped me.

Like, you know, I think that it would have helped me if I would like, if I won the first game, you know, in the draw, I could have been like surfing, maybe a bit more on the. On the wave. But unfortunately, when, you know, when you lose, then after tennis is like, everything is going so fast in a way and in. In another way.

And after that, I remember that back at the day, sometimes people, they were like, stopping me like, in the street and stuff. And they were saying, hey, you're the guy that was dancing like in Rongas. I said, yeah, yeah.

But then I wanted, and I told myself that I wanted like people to remember me playing tennis and not like, you know, dancing in center court. Even if it was amazing, amazing. But I didn't want to be remembered in that way. So I worked hard to be able to play good tennis.

But I remember that it was a tough experience for me because I came out of nowhere. I was used to have no one in the crowd except my coach or my family, but like five, 10 people maximum.

And out of nowhere, suddenly we are like 3k, 4k in this, in the stands to, to be there for me, you know, so. And all of that adrenaline that I was dreaming of when I was a kid, it was finally I was there. And when you lose, everything is going away.

And I was like kind of. It was kind of a tough moment for me because I didn't expect to. To go back in like in the, in the challengers events.

And it was not the challengers like we, we have now. So now that they have better qualities, better structures also it's, it's all included. We don't pay the hotels. We don't.

Before also we didn't pay the hotel. But you had to be in the, in the main draw, not in Qualys.

Many things has changed, you know, so it's, it's improving a lot, which is really good for our sport. But back at the time, it was.

I remember that this period between Roland Garros and Australian Open, it was hard for me and also to get pumped inside the court when I was playing those events, challengers, to try to make myself like a better player. Trying to climb into top 200, 150 was tough for me. And out of nowhere, when I qualified for Australia, everything went the same.

I was playing really bad. I lost two and two in Lumia, like the week before Australia.

And then I qualified again in Australia and I was like, okay, maybe Slams, it's for me, you know, like, if we can only play Slams. Yeah, if we can only play Slams during the year, it's fine. Like, I don't know. I got so pumped.

I had like, I remember like before all of the Slams That I played the night before. I cannot sleep because I'm so pumped. Like, it's like electricity in all my body. Everything. Yeah. Going so fast into. Into my blood.

Like, I feel like so excited and I'm so pumped. Like I. I cannot wait, you know, to be back in this kind of event. It's like why I play tennis, you know, this is the reason why I play.

And when I'm there, I'm like, here we go again. It's. It's amazing, you know, so it's like, it's a trick. I'm addicted to this kind of atmosphere.

And that's also why I have like a tough career because I had so many injuries. I wish I could turn back in the past to change many things, but I can't.

And I would do things differently to take more, like, care about myself and many things. So. But it's my. Yeah, it's my story. So I cannot do anything about that now. And I can just focus now and what can I improve in the. In the future?

If you are speaking to younger French players, which I'm sure you do, and you just mentioned there you do things differently, what things are you telling them that would help them not make the mistakes you made?

Well, I think that something that is really important is that they need to. They need to follow their path and this has nothing to deal with the results.

I think sometimes I used to be really focused on the result and even if I was winning, but I was winning ugly. So it's not a problem to win ugly, but it's a problem when you are going out of your game style.

Me, sometimes I was playing in a way not to lose, not to win, you know, so if I would send by to them is like, you know your game, you know how you play, you know how you can be really good at. So you need to focus on that only and do not focus on the result because it's going to come anyway.

So me, I think that at some point I was only focusing on the result, looking at points, the ranking and stuff. And it didn't help me to be relaxed and smooth on court. And I wish I can change that, and I did now.

But back at the days, I wish I could just change that to just tell to myself, hey, man, you play good tennis. You proved it on the court. So now just enjoy. And even if you lose, it doesn't matter because every week it's a chance to improve.

So just look at that way and nothing more, you know, like it's. It's as simple as that. That's what I would say.

You say it's as simple as that. But it's so hard to, you know, you're in the moment, you want to win, so you're trying to figure out a game and you just do other things.

As you said, it's not your game style, you're winning other ways and that is not leading to your long term development. So it is, I must be so hard to, you know, have that your game plan as in your long term game strategy and just stick to it, stick to it, stick to it.

Obviously if you're a junior it should be a bit easier, but if you're a player and you know money's tight, it could be another thousand, two thousand, five thousand, fifty thousand euros on the line here. You're gonna, you're not thinking long term strategy here.

You're thinking, how can I win right now because I need to pay for my next flight or for my coach or you know, you know, all those things.

Yeah, but here's the thing is that back in the days I was thinking about all of these kind of things because I knew that back at the time it could change my life. Like.

But the thing is that I believe that if you, you, you manage to work and to, to put your, your head and your mentality in the good way, you, you can work on your mental like strategy and the way you have to think is that which way you want to take, you want to take the way with like results, stress and feeling like anxiety and stuff like that like during all of the way or you want to focus on yourself, your game, the how you want to play, how you want to be on the court.

And I believe that if you do all of these things in the right way, all of the things that you wanted, the results, the money, everything, it's going to come anyway, you know.

But I think the biggest mistake that you can make is to, to switch it and to take results and to put results in priority, money in priority and stuff like that.

You need to have the same, the exact same wish of playing good tennis when you were a kid, that when you are a pro, just the wish to play, the wish to play your game style, to win with your game style, whether you are like countering, whether you are defending, whether you are attacking doesn't matter. But winning with your game style, your strength, your weakness, to try to learn about you yourself, it's, it's a path.

And, and I think that back at the time we were many, few players that we Were talking about like psychology, mental health and stuff like that. And me, I had trouble with anxiety and stuff like that. And I couldn't handle. And I think I had many injuries because of that.

Is because I was feeling anxious outside of the court. I was feeling anxious in my life. I was feeling, yeah, sometimes like the results that wasn't the one that I wanted to.

And I felt like a kind of bad, you know, inside and outside of the court. And after just your body is saying like, okay, you're sad, you're making me sad. So now you're going to be injured.

You know, like it's kind of like talking for himself. Exactly. So but slowly I managed to take it away. It took me a long time, but I managed to take it away. And to tell to myself, okay, who are you?

Like outside of the court, you are this kind of guy. You are the positive guy. You like to help the others, which way is for you. And when you choose your path and you are okay, I'm like that.

You need to hold it until the end and then to say, okay, my career wasn't perfect. I did many mistakes, but I did also plenty of good things.

And at the end you need to focus also on the, on the glass, if I can say half full rather than half empty, you know, so it's, it's my mentality now is that always to. To think about everything that I have and not everything that I didn't reach yet.

Yeah, it's definitely an interesting topic. We were talking about it with a coach last week. I was at the Tennis Europe Masters and one of the players in the under 14 played an interesting game.

Basically he played like, do not miss, do not miss. And that was the game I was surprised to see at that level. And it was just quite good at it was weak in a way, but just did not miss.

No matter what came at her, she did not miss.

And just speaking to the coach and they said it's going to be a challenge, like because she wins so many matches and convince her to change her game style, to start attacking more is going to be a big, big challenge and convince the parents as well.

But it's almost impossible with this kind of words, do not miss. Instead of saying do not miss when you are attacking, you have to say to him, make this shot, make this shot.

Because there is no negativity inside of this one. You know, it's make this shot, make the next one, make this one.

And when you keep on like repeating yourself this kind of word, then after some time your Brain is going to be convinced about it instead of do not miss. It's like you miss it and then you're going to say to your brain, oh, I knew it anyway, that I'm going to miss.

So you're going to, you're going to complain yourself inside of that, you know, like you are going to be, oh, anyway, I knew it. I knew that I'm going to miss. And it's not the right mentality when you have like this, this attacking mentality.

You want to attack, you want to create inside of the court. You need to have this confidence.

You need to have this, the wish of going to the net of go to make like winners to take the advantage on your, on your opponent, you know, but it's all, it all start with the mentality because what's going to, what's going to happen if you miss 1 shot, 2 shots, 3 shots, 5, 10, but it's still 4.

And you are going to have the shot to attack at 4:40 or 4:30, 40, break point, you know, and you have to do it, but you have to do it in a way that missing doesn't affect you because it was the right thing to do.

And at some point people, sometimes they, they, I think they, they make mistake about, about that is that they only focus on, on the shot that they missed. Yeah, but what about the, the courage that you had to take this shot?

Okay, you missed, but you were brave to take this one and you wanted to, to make it, but you're human and you missed it and it doesn't matter because you would have another one, another one, another one and you to go on this one with the same mentality that you had the one that you missed.

I want to have the same mentality, you know, and I think this is the way, this is the, the way that if tomorrow I'm like trying to be with a player, I would love to, to be that kind of coach because that's, that's who I am. That's what I believe in, that I truly believe in that. I believe in positive things.

I believe in the, in the fact that tennis is a game everyone wants to win. But there is nothing more satisfying to win with your game style. Nothing.

Yeah, funny you say like this. Reinforce positive talk. I was lucky to be on court with Medvedev during the week as well. And he was trained hard.

The guy went probably 10 minutes without missing the ball. Hitting the pro was amazing. But when he did miss, he said Kale Dimash, which I think is a very positive.

Yeah, it's like Dimash. It's like, oh, it's disappointing, you know, like, it's. But it's in the.

It's like, what a pity. Is it like, what a pity. Oh, so what could have been so nice? So he said that quite a bit, which I thought was interesting.

It wasn't so negative, you know, it's not so negative. It's positive. It's like, oh, that would have been nice. So that was a nice, like, positive talk from him, which was good to see.

Exactly. And it's also showing the mentality of Daniel that is like really focusing and trying to be close to the perfection, you know, So I understand him.

Like when he hits like 100 shots and he missed 101, he will say, jesus, I wanted to make this one. Because he's looking for perfection, you know, like he's looking, trying to, to be better on details, because it's details.

But at the ranking that he has, all details matter, you know, because Yannick Sinner is also focusing on details, although all focusing on details in the, in the game that they have, you know, so. And the strength that they have, they are all like focusing on, what can I improve tomorrow? The day after, the day after, the day after.

And it's the champion mentality. It's about that. And they surrounded themselves with the good team. They are having great results and stuff.

But I think that first, the key is that then they know perfectly themselves, they know their game and they train every day with the same consistence and they do not go away from the way that they have with the coach, you know, for example, I'm sure that Gilles, with Danil will not say to Daniel, oh, now, Danilo, I want you to hit only four ends on the court, like Carlos Alcala, because it's not his game, you know, that's what he knows perfectly, his game.

And he's going full every day with the wish of perfectioning his game more and more and more, being more solid, better tactically to find keys against the player like senior Alcaraz, because he's so close from them, so he wants to beat them now, you know, so.

And I think that's also the, maybe the difference, you know, like with all of those top guys and sometimes the players, they're like out of top hundred, top 200. I think it's also the consistency and the way they are seeing the things. It's. They see things differently now.

So I'm going to ask you the difference between a futures player, challenger player, and I know there's many levels, the Top hundred players, top 50, top 10, top three, but a top hundred player every. I think a big dream for players is top hundred. So I think that's if you can get there then let's see what happens.

And the quicker you get there the better. So in your words, in your experience words, the difference between futures challenger and top hundred player?

Well, I would say that in future you can have players that they can hit many good balls and they can be really good players but they don't have consistency. So it's going to be one day they play top 300 and then the next day they can play top 600, you know.

So I think futures it's like more about consistency than one game for a guy, you know, it's not the problem about the level. The problem is to maintain a good lover during a certain time. So I would say that this is the thing.

When you go on challenger it's different because challenger you are going to face people that they are already top 300. So they will have the minimum like level that they will have. It's going to be high, higher than future.

In future you will have like many like up and downs and in Challenger you always, you also have ups and downs. But it's not that big. The difference is not that big, it's smaller. They also have it. That's why also they are 250, 300 and not top hundred.

So they have it but it's smaller. And that's also why they are a bit more better than the futures players.

But the thing is that to repeat the this performance the day after the days and it's the consistency that entire, you know, so and after for me there is a big gap. Of course being top hundred is the result of consistency of your results and it's super hard to reach.

But I would say that many top hundred players they lose against guys that are 130, 180, 200. But people that they are top 50, it's different top 50 for me, it's the step, big step again, you know. And I think after top 50, it's top 20.

The second step that is like the level is really higher, you know. So I think in tennis there is like kind of like mountains, you know, like it's like up top hundred.

Here we are, I would say between 170, it's like kind of the same, you know, like maybe a bit more, but it's kind of like the same. And then top 50, it's again, another one, top 20, another one, and top 10, another one.

And then after and between 10 and one, it's like every step it's a mountain, you know, that's how I see it.

And just. Sorry, just back to your original question. Let's say a top hundred guy who could be maybe top eight is probably better.

Where they're playing ATP, they can play most draws. And a top 150 guy, 200, is it just these variances are just even smaller and smaller. Is that the difference?

Like they can just play that bit more consistently?

Yeah, it's small differences, but at the end it's during a year because, for example, if you miss one game, it's just a week. But the problem is that if you miss 15, it's 15 weeks.

So that's a bit the thing, you know, like when the top players, it's not happening to them, you know. For example, like I would say a good example, a guy like Alex Domino, he used to be top 10. He was most of the time he was top 20.

So he's like really solid rock player, playing amazing. You will not see Alex Domino losing against like, not often against the guy that is like 60, 70, 80. It's just, it's not happening often, you know.

So that's the consistency that makes the difference and the way also that he made evolve this game, like super high, super high.

The qualities that he has, like the, the speed on court, the way he's playing tactically, the way he's defending, the way he's like always putting like good energy. He's not, he's not injured also. He's like super healthy most of the time, you know.

So it's a global thing that at the end it's small detail there, small details there, small details there. But at the end it makes big package, you know, big difference.

And that's also why at the end of the year, the ranking that you, that you have is the result of all of those details, you know, that you made not as good as them, you know.

So, yeah, I Think in one game I cannot tell you that there is big differences because especially now, a guy that is 300, he can beat a guy that is top 60, top 50. It can happen, but on the consistency of the season, there is a big difference. Big difference.

No, you definitely see that in draw sometimes. May have had some friends playing in draws and they get a good win, you know, like there might have been 400 and they beat a guy 200, great win.

And then they go out the next day and lose a guy thousand and you're like, no. And that's. That, that is the perf.

I think that's a perfect explanation of a Futures player is when, yeah, they can win, but they're not, they don't tend to do two days in a row.

And unless you're exceptional and you can, you know, you get these, you know, some good juniors or they go, you can get to the Futures in like they play 10 tournaments and they're done finished challengers. That's when you know you're a good player.

If you can move to the Futures quickly and then if you even better move to the challengers quickly, I think, okay, this guy or girl is really good.

Yeah. And after.

But you have so many things that you have to avoid, you know, like the, after all, it's also human, you know, like to get like relaxing, relaxing yourself after really good results, to relax a bit yourself. Because tennis do not allow you to enjoy that much time. You need to win the tournament and on Tuesday you need to be on court playing another one.

And even if the tournament was super hard, that you had to win so many matches against tough players and it's the same way for boys and girls. I'm not talking about ATP or like WTA. It's for both, you know, like women's, men's, it's the same.

It's super hard, you know, because you cannot enjoy a victory, you know, and at the end, at the end, it's super tough. It's super tough because you are humans. When you do like a great work, you want to be, you want to appreciate it because it's coming from a long way.

You know, for example, me, if like one day I win, I don't know, like ATP 250, I will enjoy it so much because I work so hard, you know, to reach it, to reach that goal. And then you make it and you're super happy. So, okay, it's time to set new goals. But tennis doesn't allow you to rest on what you achieve.

You need to focus on what you have to do next.

Yeah, the rank and sucks you back up if you don't.

I think because we see, I mean, on my point of view now, I see sometimes like the players, especially when September is coming, that I see players super tired. I see them like not in the same at the beginning of the year, middle of the year, with like really energetic, with a lot of energy.

I see them like with having small injuries with here, you know, like super tired here.

Yeah.

And I think it's because the season is too long.

I think, I think it would be, it would be something to think about, you know, just to try to make the season shorter, you know, even if like we don't have like a.

But just to say to boys and girls, to say, okay, November, December, no challengers, no ATP, no WTA, two months off, you know, and you respect the calendar because at the end you have 10 months plus the Masters for the one that they have. But I think it's a mistake to try to go after, you know, like there is challengers even like at the ending, beginning of December.

So how you are supposed to rest and make pre season, it's impossible.

What happens? I. Look, I completely agree, I think it's great for the game. But I come to you, Lauren, I say, lauren, I'm running a small exhibition in Rio.

I can pay you well, the start of December. Do you want to come? And you're like, you know, does that. That interrupts your preseason. But I do understand that the tennis careers are short.

You got to make your money. But also there's players moan now there's small percentage of players moaning. So what's your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts?

Well, I would say something is that I would understand more guy that is 120 going to an exhibition, that the guy that is top 10 or top 20, because at the end he's gonna say no. But you cannot say that because it's 5 million, 4 million, 2 million, whatever. It's a lot of money. I understand.

But I'm also thinking in a way that the guy that is top 10, he's making a lot of money during the year. So 2 millions, basically, with his contracts and sponsors, he's going to make it anyway, you know. So is it worthy to risk a Slam?

Because Australian Open is coming quickly, a month after. Is it worthy to risk it? I would say no. I would say no, but after, I think it's the wish of the player.

And if my player, for example, I have a player that is top 15 and he wants to go. I cannot force him not to go.

But I would say to him, you are doing a mistake, because I think it's not something that you can do with the objectives and the wish that you have with your career and your year, the next year that you have, you know? So if you want to do an exhibition, fine, but not at the time of the year. It's not the right time.

There is a time for everything, you know, There is a time for resting, there is time to train, there is time to play. There is time for everything.

But for me, if you, for example, if we are like in September or August and you want to skip one tournament to play an exhibition, I will maybe not agree, but I will understand more because at the end you still play matches. So, okay, it's a pity because you don't play on ATP Tour. Okay, it's fine. And I do not agree. I prefer my player to play on ATP Tour, WTA Tour.

But after all, he's gonna. He's gonna talk to me and he's gonna say, yeah, but it's two minions, what can I do?

And I would say, I understand, I understand, you know, but not on November and December, because it's. You are all the year into like kind of the washing machine trying to do things, you know, like you. You don't have the time to breathe through you.

Just like, you go there, you go there, you take planes, planes and planes. And you need to tell to your body also, like, now we stop. Like, it's enough. I'm top 10, I'm top 20.

I made 5 millions this year, 3 millions this year, maybe. Okay, it was a cost of 1 million, but I'm still like 2 million, like out. And it's only with prize money. It's.

I'm not counting like contracts with, you know, like the closes, the rackets, the bonuses that you had, also the guarantee that you have from the tournament, you know. So at the end, I think it's enough that I understand more a guy that, like Joko is that he won everything, he can do it now. Like, who cares?

He want everything, you know, like, if he wants to do it, fine, man, just go. He deserve it more than anyone.

You just finished the game, game over, you know, so you just, just do it if you want, you know, I like it, it's normal. But a guy that's like, young, he wants to do his career and stuff.

I would say if you want to, to last in tennis, to be there for a long time, 10 years, 12 years, 15 years, I think every days of like rest matters. It matters. I prefer my player to tend to tell me that in December I need one week off. Take it, take it. It's okay.

We still have like one more month to get you like ready for Australian 10. Rather than he's telling me that he needs to go to Rio with jet lag planes.

It's a lot of like fatigue, you know, and he's going to be, is going to be tired. So. Yeah, that's my thought on that. And I think we can adjust on planning that kind of things.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's. Yeah.

Just the way I see it sometimes is maybe, you know, at this top level that this happens to a lot, that the stress level, the challenges, the contract commitments are totally different. And unless you're there, you don't sort of, you know, it's easy to say, no, I wouldn't do that.

But if you're in that life, maybe Nike are saying, or Rolex are saying, do you have to do this? And you know, maybe that's it.

But yeah, I understand also when it's part of a contract, but usually the contracts, you can also like arranging before when you are writing the contracts and stuff, you can say, okay, I'm available for you guys to find you a time. Like I have 10 months for you in a year. 10 months, it's a lot.

Except that I have six weeks, no, eight weeks with slams that I cannot move because it's slams and I have Masters Thousand. But out of that we can find, we can find moments.

But not on my vacation because vacation is the only time of year I have it because imagine for a body to compress when you end the year, like beginning of December vacation, minimum, I would say minimum a week, 10 days.

It's not a lot like 10 days after all of the year that you have 10 days and after with only three weeks of preparation to play a slam, it's not enough because in three weeks you don't have first in 10 days your body, it doesn't recover well properly. And so you are going to be okay, maybe better than the 10 days before, but your body, let's say, is charged to 70%.

At some point during the year you're gonna pay it. Like it's either you're going to be tired, either you're going to be sick, either you're going to be injured.

It's 100%, you know, so I think it's, you need to be really good with programmation and to move well inside of the let's say the washing machine of the tournaments, you need to move well inside of it, you know.

Do you see with any of your French colleague tennis players this time of the year? So October, November, you know, in January they're like, high five. Everything, everything's good.

And this time they're a bit cranky and you're like, what's up with you, buddy? Like, do you get a bit. Is that obvious?

Yeah, I mean, some.

Sometimes it's not about like only like French players, but I see that like on the, on the players that they played a lot the year, you know, I see that. I see like there is a different vibe, different energy. It's just like kind of, oh, this is too long, man.

You know, like, you know, like they want to rest, they want to be with the family. We also, we are a sport that we need to live the. From, for example, me last year to go to Australia and Open Qualis.

I Left my home 25th December, the Christmas Day I didn't have. This year it's going to be nice, let's say, because I'm 400, so, like, it's okay. I don't have anything to prepare, so it's a pity in a way.

But in another way I will have time at home a bit. I will enjoy the time in December.

I will have time for me to recover, to train, to be ready for the next season and also to take time with my family, Christmas and stuff. It's a lot of sacrifices. When you, you are me. I was basically.

I never had like a normal Christmas for the last like 15 years, you know, because you are inside of like this kind of machine and you're used to it now, you know, but, but now I. Of course you grew up and you. I love tennis, I love the lifestyle of tennis. But I think we can, we can manage to be.

To be better on planification programmation, especially after. And also Grigor Dimitrov, he talked about this topic recently. The mental health of the players. There is a lot of depression.

There is a lot of people that they are not feeling well in the secret. But the thing is that they don't talk that much. Why? Because they are all like, let's say enemies on the secret.

So they don't want to show weaknesses to each other. But at the end they are all humans.

And this is good because back at my time, like 10 years ago, no one was complaining about, let's say, about that kind of topic, you know, no one.

Now it's more common that the Players say, yeah, okay, I felt depressed also Matteo Berrettini, I saw some of the topics that he said that he wasn't feeling well during the injury period. And it's great because it's taking a lot of courage. I also had like many bad periods like that, you know. But it's good to talk about it.

It's good because tennis, the lifestyle of tennis, it's draining you, like really draining, Draining all of the energy that you have, everything, it's taking everything away from you. It's great, amazing. I'm not complaining, but just.

I think it will be important, necessary for the house, the mental health and the health in general for the players to have those two months out of the circuit to regenerate. And I think also we will see better matches. Sometimes we see matches with mistakes, with errors and stuff.

I think we will see better matches also because it's great to see that amount of tennis, but also it's tough and really demanding for the body, you.

Know, or maybe they just. I know this would never really work, but maybe in the middle of the year you need a break for a month or so and break in the middle of breaking.

It would be kind of interesting, but I don't think Wimbledon, Roland Garrus would be happy with that. Imagine play Roland Garros, stop for one month, come back grass court season, hardcourt season, tour finals, month off. Maybe that's the way. But.

Yeah, but at the end it's. Whether it's one month, one month, but at the end it's two months per year, you know, and at the end is the. Is the same. And I think have the.

This topic that is tough for ITP is that they. They have signed already the calendar for the year after. It's always seven months or eight months in advance. I'm not like.

When I have something to say, like for example, I always say it. For me, itp, they work as much as they can to arrange also the players and the wish of the players.

Except for me this year they made a big mistake with taking out the points of the challengers events and to upgrade the points of the ATP 250, because you're just making a whole bigger. Exactly. And how are we supposed to. The answer is that we need to play the highest tournaments. Okay, man, no worries.

I want to play them, but how can I play them when I'm 220 in the world that I am available to play the qualies of a slam and I don't enter into the qualies of 250 because it's a 12 men's draw in the qualys. I can't because the cut is going to be 140, 150, 160. So even if I want to, I can play it.

But don't blame me and don't blame also my fellow players with taking out the challenger points. Because at the end, challengers, it's super tough to win it. Super tough and to win the points also.

And I think they need to put it back like it was last year. It was great, like the gap was nice. I don't have any problem with the fact that they want to upgrade the point in qualities up to 50. It's nice.

But don't take out the points of challengers because it's going to be so tough to reach. Imagine that you play a final for 25k, you earn 60 points. So it's a 65 points game. Even if you play a first round mandrel slam, you earn 45 points.

It's.

It's not logical, you know, like you cannot play a final for challenger with 65 points more and the first round to a second round of a slam with 45 points, 20 points difference, you know, like it's not logical. I think like it was last year with 80 points, 90 points. This is correct.

You know, even like a guy that is making semis, semis is hard to reach, you know, like it's tough because you play guys, you play guys like they are top hundred.

Especially in 125, you are going to win against guys that they are top hundred or close to it, you know, and not one time, but two or three times better.

Tough draws.

Exactly. It's super tough. So they need, I think they need to. Sometimes they make changes that for me it's not the main problem, you know. And.

But then after they created another problem by doing that, you know, it's that the guys, for example, that they are like 60, 70, 80, they pass one round in 250, it's 25 points and then 50 points into quarters. Okay, great. But me, if I want to do 50 points, I have to go into.

The final for 100k. I think being like a player, 50, 60, 70, if you just win a few matches, you can stay there for a long time.

If you don't get injured, you win the odd match here and there, you know, two rounds this week, one round rounds. I think it's a good place to be.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's easy, it's super tough. To stay, you have tough matches.

But I'm just saying that they need to put, yeah, the points back because it's, it's four or five games that you have to win to reach a bit of points. Just a bit. Only the winners. The winner is rewarded with like a really big. A lot of points, you know.

And all of the guys that, for example, I heard like from, I don't want to say names, but I heard from, from some players that last year, many players, they want challengers and then they reached the top hundred or the top 80 or the top 70. But now they just figured out that those guys, now they are like top 50, top 40. So they have the level.

So when you win challengers, you have the level to be successful on the tour. So then what's the problem? You know, there is no. Or either. What can be also like a good thing is that to put the point back and to put.

Maybe the quality is like a bit more, like with a bit more players, you know, or more events, you know. But you cannot say to a guy that is like 210, for example, and he wants to play, but he cannot play.

Like last year I remember a guy, his name is Rafael Colignon, and he made like a really good year. This year it was like 600, and I think now is 160, 150.

And I remember last year I was in Wimbledon and just before that it was Italy, you know, the tournament on grass. So I played Nottingham, Italy and Wimbledon Qualis, and he was 220 or 225 or something like this.

And he couldn't play on grass before Wimbledon, even playing qualities of challenger because he didn't enter. And this is crazy. Like, you know, you, you want to prepare a Slam, but you can't. You can't play so well.

There's only three tournaments on and they're stacked. And yeah, I can see it's hard. Needs to come over. He needs to come over to Dublin here with a few tournaments over here.

Yeah, but you know what I mean.

Like, for example, I know that they always have like problems and stuff, you know, but a guy that is like trying to prepare Slam, it just wants to play just the week before just. It just wants to play. So they have to. Maybe, maybe they know that they don't have a lot of, a lot of tournaments the week before.

So maybe especially this week to allow like the, the, the qualities to be like with more players. Maybe.

Yeah, you know, maybe so then every, maybe then everyone can play, you know, to avoid these kind of Things, you know, I'm trying always to see not the part of the guy that is 250 or 300. I'm always trying to see the part of the guy that is 50. I want to be fair with what I'm saying, you know.

But I need to talk about this topic of challenger points because it's affecting a lot of players, affecting players from 150 to 400, you know.

So I have to talk about it and I Hope that in January 25th they will make changes and even if they don't put it like it was last year, but at least that they. They put like more. Just a bit more points, you know, to be fair.

Let's, let's. Let's see what happens. I hope. Change the topic here. We. Only a few more questions left. Does every French professional get a Lacoste contract?

I remember just every French player seems to wear Lac. I always want to ask. I never asked.

And I'm just curious to do you like, once you enter the French Federation, did Lacoste show up and go here your hours now?

Well, no, it's because we have facilities when you play with Techni Fiber. So Ring Daknesh is playing with Technique Fiber. He has Lacoste, Hugo, Amber.

Obviously he doesn't need it because he's top 20, same as Feast, because it's a young gun climbing like really fast. So he doesn't need it. But of course, the Lacoste, they want French players because it's French. So. But we have facilities with playing with.

With Technifibre to get Lacoste. Danil, for example, he has. He has Lacoste. It's been a while now because. Because Technifibre Lacoste is the same brand now.

Even a long time ago was always. Look, even if you Gasquet wore. Did no, he. No, no. Gasquet didn't wear Lacoste, did he?

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Was he not Lecoq sporty?

He had like. He has now like a Lecoq Sportive. But he had Lacospor before. Yeah, yeah, Lacos and Asics with shoes he was playing. And also the. The yellow head.

Yeah, the one he beats Federer with this one on Monte Carlo Classic.

One Classic. Classic. Yeah, yeah. What shoes do you wear, by the way?

Isaacs.

Which Asics General Resolution. Oh, nice. I could have got in trouble there. Asics are podcast sponsors, as you said La Costa would have been. I was like, why did I say that? But no.

What.

What did. I rarely talk to players about the shoes. What do you think of the resolutions.

Well, I really love it. For me, it's. It's really comfortable also with the way I feel inside of the shoes.

I had many problems also with my back, my lower back and my body is just used to it. I tried the shoes like Austin the year, the year before also, but it didn't work for me.

So I think they made a lot, a lot, a lot of improvements really. But just for me, I was just. I think it's for everyone it's different. For example, Daniel, he loves it different of your body. You know, it's.

Everyone is different. It's different sensations. I cannot say that the Asics is better. I will just say that this one fits better. Yeah, exactly.

If it's me and that's it, that's cool. But yeah, and also there is one thing that I wanted to add.

I have YouTube channel, actually, so I'm trying to share my life as a tennis player on a daily basis. Now it's in French, but you still have subtitles. With YouTube, it's generated automatically.

But I will love to as soon as I reach like a good amount of followers. I think after I will try to make two videos, you know, one in French, one in English and I will try. Yeah, I'll try, I'll try.

Because like I said in the beginning of the podcast, I love to share, you know, I love to share, I love to talk, I love to. Yeah, to be involved with the different topics inside of tennis, to see something new to. There is always something new to learn in tennis, you know.

So, yeah, I just want to. Just wanted to share that with you and.

Yeah, we'll check it out. A question I've been asking a few guests lately is who is the boss, the coach or the player?

I think it's the player, I think, because at the end is the player that is going to choose the coach. So in that sense he is the boss because he's going to pay the coach, he's going to pay everything.

So he's hiring, you know, like it takes him, you know, like to. To be like to work with him.

But then after, if he of course trust him, so then we are switching, you know, so at the beginning to choose him, the boss is the player.

But during the relation as the boss is the coach because he's going to say, you need to play like that, you need to do that this way, this way, this way. And you have to listen. Obviously, if you believe in him and you trust him, I think it's the way. But at the end, to Hire the coach.

And of course to fire the coach is the tennis player.

That is the hard part. The hard part. And so, final question.

So you're going to, you come back from injury at the moment, you're going to have a nice Christmas with your family for a change, and then you're going to see out your career. I'm not sure how long that's going to last, but have you already been thinking of what's after tennis?

I have no idea what I think you might want to be just from this conversation, but what do you, what would you like to do after tennis?

Well, I would say help others, I think in a way that it suits me. I'm not sure I want to travel to make like full years inside of the circuit.

Maybe doing weeks will fit me to have like a 15 weeks to do with a player, to, to be a travel coach with someone. It can be a girl, can be a boy. Like, I, I don't mind.

And also, I really want to push my YouTube CH because it's the way that I can interact with many people and I have, like, sometimes good questions. Please, can you tell me what about that? What about these? And I love, I love to share about it. So I think this is something that I really like.

So I have many, many questions. But it will also, I think the end of my career will be.

It will be my body that is going to choose if I have the same year as this year with a lot of injuries. It's going to be tough for me. It's going to be tough for me to follow because when you are out of the quads of Slams, you don't earn a lot of money.

You, you struggle economically. It's. It's tough. So. And I'm not 20 years old anymore. I'm 30.

So you're still young.

I'm still young. But let's say Instead of having 15 years of career, now I have five years, you know, five years with.

I would, I think around 34, 35, you go down, you know, like, you can still push for four more years, but after that I think you go down. So. Yeah, exactly.

I have, I have a bit more to go, but I want to do it in the way that I always wanted with the stuff that I want, the people that I want around me and to try to make it smooth, you know. Yeah. All my career was like kind of a storm. It was a huge storm with injuries coming back.

I came back five times from no points to top 250 or 275 times. Without weak cards, with nothing. Nothing. So now I just want to enjoy, not focus so much about, like, what I said before, points, results.

I don't care. I just want to play, Play, allow myself to play.

And I think for me, when I will retire, I will try to return on big stages where I love the tennis most, you know, So I will pick if I can. If I can come back, I will pick one and I will stop there. I think it's the best for me. I don't want to stop in a tournament, like, middle of nowhere.

I was there.

Turkey.

Yeah. Or whatever. You know, I love Turkey, to be honest. I love the country, but, like, I don't want to be like, in the. An event where, like, it was a.

Just a programmation plan to play tournaments to. To go there, you know, I want to. To stop in the big stage to say, for example, you know, I stopped in Islam, you know, so it's. It's nice, you know?

Nice. Very good. Well, Lauren, thank you very much for your time, your interest in thoughts, and best of luck on the. On the comeback.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Fabio.