New York-based Jennifer Leitman Bailey has a deep love and enthusiasm for jewelry, but she’s all business when determining fair market value for her clients’ pieces.

 Welcome to the Jewelry Connoisseur Podcast, and now your host Sonia Esther Soltani.

Welcome to this new episode of the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast. This is a podcast for collectors, whether you're a novice or a trade veteran. I hope you enjoy it. Today we're meeting an appraiser. Some of you might know that an appraiser is someone who values jewelry at market value. So it's very interesting because an appraiser can be involved at any stage of the jewelry. Divorce, death, estate valuation. And we have an expert with us. It's Jennifer Leitman Bailey. She's based in New York. Jennifer used to work at auction houses before, and she will tell us about her job, the challenges, but also the big perks of being so involved closely with people's collection.

[00:00:04] Jennifer: I'm so happy. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:20] Jennifer: Sure, being an appraiser is really a broad term for placing a value on a piece of jewelry. So for my clients, I always offer, many different types of appraisals, whether it's insurance, fair market, matrimonial action, estate planning, donation, liquidation, there are so many different types. So the main goal and purpose of an appraiser is to be an unbiased person who I guess would put on a, value onto that piece of jewelry, depending on what type of market we are looking for.

[00:01:03] Jennifer: Sure. mainly I work with private clients, so my practice has become more of private clients, art advisory companies that work with many different clients that need any sort of appraisal. I do work occasionally with the trade to help them, but I don't really value pieces of jewelry that they have where in the past I've seen many appraisers come in and try to get a feel for Different values if they were to buy something from somebody or place value on it But for me, I don't really work with the trade I focus mainly on private clients in their collections and really largely with attorneys to do estates and divorce cases lot of retail replacement insurance and a lot of estate planning

[00:01:51] Jennifer: it actually is more divorces now than there have been. and a lot of people hire me as a neutral appraiser, which means I do both [00:02:00] sides. And a lot of people hire two different appraisers. But the point of any appraiser is to be completely unbiased. You cannot have any bias no matter what. And the way that I value each piece of jewelry always is through research and market knowledge, of course, but you can't have bias if it's based on facts and part of being an appraiser. A lot of people don't know is that research and market findings and comparables are, I would say, the main part of standing by your value, and it's hard for people to understand where I used to work at auction at Christie's and Doyle. We would put an auction estimate on a piece of jewelry and somewhere figure in the middle. But when you actually appraise and you have to prove your point by a market analysis, by comparing comparables that you find from auction, and fair market values, you really need the proof. So research really backs up your values. And I [00:03:00] tell every single client that this way, you know, there is no bias.

[00:03:15] Jennifer: Sure. I started my career workingas a jewelry designer, then through GIA, and then I started at Doyle, and then went to Christie's, and I had the most wonderful experience. You, cannot, find a better way to learn about jewelry, and all sorts of jewelry, especially coming from two different auction houses. And I loved it so much. When I had my first child, I struggled with whether or not I wanted to dedicate my hours finding jewelry and loving it or be with my child and I said, you know what? I really want to be with my child but at this point, maybe I'll start something on my own and so I did I said, you know what? I'm gonna start appraising and a colleague [00:04:00] of mine at Christie's used to love when we would have these large appraisals to do and on site visits and we would bring our snacks and our coffee and we would just sit down and zone out and so for me I knew that that was one of the most important pieces of the jewelry world that I loved. And so I said, you know what, I'm going to go out on my own. And I did, and it started off slow. This was back in 2015. And I will say that now it's extremely busy and incredible. And I love what I do each and every time I see something new and you just never know what you're going to see. So it's been a blessing.

[00:04:50] Jennifer: It is. You know, it's become, originally I actually never thought it would be this busy. My kids say to me now, you're too busy. But it is my [00:05:00] favorite thing. I wake up so happy in the morning. I know I'm going to be researching and seeing jewels and whatever it is. But I am so happy because I learn something new every single day. So it's been incredible.

[00:05:16] Jennifer: So that's a funny question. I, when I was at the auction houses, I would fall in love with every period piece. I loved Edwardian, the Bella Epoque era, and then I shifted to Art Deco. I like Victorian, but I'm not as well versed in Victorian as I am. With Deco pieces, but right now I'm really into Retro. There is a gorgeous bracelet coming up for sale in the Christie's auction. and it's a really fabulous old Tiffany piece and the colors, there's green tourmaline and citrine on this beautiful gold, and it is so well made. So I'm really into gold pieces right now, collectible pieces. And as much as I love period jewelry, I. [00:06:00] I'm really interested in the contemporary jewelers as well, who are really important right now and collectible. I would say my main passion for jewelry and my main focus is collectible. And I like to say it's almost like mini real estate. And it's funny because I Look at my children and I say to them, I'm going to invest in a piece like this, or this is what I suggest to you, and most of the time it's a signed piece, a period piece, an old stone that has value or character, and they ask me why, and I say, because it's a place to hold your money, even though it's not an investment. It's a place to hold your money. You know, in 10, 15, 20 years, you are going to do well with that piece. If you ever went for resale. So my brain is trained to think like that. So while I love every era, I love everything. I have no bias.

[00:07:27] Jennifer: I always, and again, it's, my training from the past 20 years of working in the jewelry business, but I will always advise clients to go for signed pieces. The signed pieces at auction for my evaluations for every single appraisal I do are the, pieces that will come out on top. They will always hold the value. it's very important. I think when you're buying a piece of jewelry and there's nothing wrong with a, you know, more contemporary piece of jewelry, a diamond tennis necklace, something like that. But when you [00:08:00] go to resell, which is really the, people come to me, not to resell it, but for me to say, okay, here is your fair market value. This is what it's trading at. Today in the open market, the diamond tennis necklaces, and unless they are a five carat center and a really perfect graduation, you know, larger stones to smaller, really well done high quality stones. They just don't hold their value as much as a Van Cleef Alhambra necklace in 20 years, or an old piece of Harry Winston, an incredible saturated emerald from Harry Winston, an emerald and diamond brooch, or a amazing Kashmir sapphire or Ceylon or Burmese. So when I tell people to invest in and not necessarily invest, it's really more of where is a good place to. put your money if you're going to buy jewelry. You might like the trendy jewelry, but can you alter it to be a signed piece of trendy jewelry [00:09:00] that will hold its value because of the name? So right now we date periods, you know, but we stop at the 20s, right? And In 20, 30, 40 years, it'll keep going. So those pieces from that time period will be really important and respected. So I try to stay away from jewelry that isn't signed. And some people don't like that, but if they are asking my opinion based on my market research, what holds its value or signed pieces.

[00:09:29] Jennifer: Natural diamonds, of course, and, you know, the market fluctuates, as we all know, in the one to two carats right now. But, I recently had an incredible, client, and they had the most incredible collection of old pieces of jewelry. Some period, some vintage, and incredible diamonds. Those brown, yellowy, orange, gorgeous. , saturated, intense stones, and then this beautiful marquise diamond, an old cut. You can't replace those old cuts [00:10:00] anymore. Thirteen carats, just nice and fat, and really well proportioned, and you just can't replace those stones anymore. So diamonds always, as long as they're natural, and a lot of people are concerned, and in the market everybody's slowly concerned and appraisers. And I have my diamond testers in my office and in my travel lab. And, you know, now we're all looking at synthetic diamonds and it's creating an issue for appraisers. I have yet to come across one, but I have seen many people who think that their diamonds are natural and they're not. So meaning they are simulants and moissanite and cubic zirconia. So natural diamonds, signed pieces, gem quality colored stones with certification. You can't go wrong.

[00:10:50] Jennifer: it's gorgeous. I've seen it all, Sonia. I have seen 20 carat colored diamonds, incredible 20, 30, 100 [00:11:00] carat gemstones. And I have seen a gold chain that I absolutely fall in love with. So you see the highest quality, but then you see the lowest. And it's funny with my experience at auction, with my experience seeing so many private collections, pieces that you just, whimsical and, beautiful. And they make me so happy. But when you see kind of everything all the time, some of those important pieces are just unattainable for a person like me. And then I see these small gold pieces and, little whimsical, animals and, you know, and signed, of course, and I just want them. So it's nice to see the really important stuff, but the affordable pieces that everybody could have their hands on are equally as important, in my opinion, equally.

[00:12:22] Jennifer: And something like that. I agree. And that will hold its value. It might not go up. It really won't go down, but it will be steady in the market for years. Um, you can't find pieces like that anymore. So, you know, any Boivin, Belperron any of these incredible designers, they're just if you see one and you can do it, I say do it. And you know, it's, everybody feels differently about what they spend on, and it's funny, the past two weeks I've had a lot of appraisals, and large collections, I mean, and one a total surprise with a large provenance, and [00:13:00] she had all vintage Van Cleef, incredible jewelry, and she's so funny. She says, I don't wear it. And I was like, please put these earrings on and think of me. And she said, you know what? And she actually recently messaged me and said, I wore my earrings. And I thought of you, you know, it's people buy this jewelry and they keep it in their collections and then they take it out for an appraisal and they forget they even have it. I am a big proponent to wear it. Let it make you feel beautiful. Enjoy it. Each jewel, it's a tiny little piece of art, and it's really the most incredible thing in the world.

[00:13:39] Jennifer: Yes, it's true. It is true. Wear it and think of me is what I tell every client. Heh heh

[00:14:19] Jennifer: Always, actually I just had a client call me the other day and I did an appraisal for her, and she's in her late 90s and she has this beautiful collection of jewelry, she was a self employed woman and she really had a high powerful position and she would buy herself jewelry and lots of diamonds and it turns out that she had trusted somebody and really didn't know what she was buying and trusted somebody and as retailers do, we make money and, you know, not me, I'm not a retailer, but people make money and that's their job. They have overhead and they have people to pay. And I went and met with her and I appraised her pieces. [00:15:00] And, of course, she was not happy with my values because she had paid so much. And what we did was fair market so she could understand and, give her some sort of estate planning. And she really was affected by it. It was very challenging. You know, she didn't understand and she wanted to speak to the jeweler and she was upset and she felt that she had been taken. And I spent a long time talking with her and walking her through the steps of when you buy something from somebody, kind of explaining the process. How the fair market value will always differ from a retail replacement value and the fair market is based on the market today that's the effective valuation date and she actually called me two days ago still very upset about it and it was, it's hard. So you definitely become a therapist. And I love it because I love people so I don't mind walking them through them or hearing the stories and I did one collection which was [00:16:00] very big challenge, and it was about 95 cameos, and yes, which is difficult because we know cameos can be made from shell, they can be made from agate, they can be made from so many different types of hard stone, and differentiating the different stones, the pieces that were older. There were so much to it, and that took me a really long time. Now, the client, I believe it was for an estate. This was a couple years ago, but emotionally for me, and for the client, there was a lot of sentimental value to them. And, you have to take that into consideration, but not when you're pricing. So, it's more about handling the client and making sure that they feel good about it and that their pieces are seen and you understand where they came from but when you're valuing it's really you have to just be fair and based on what the market is and it really depends but there have been so many I did have another client [00:17:00] who had a beautiful diamond necklace suspending with oval-shaped rubies. He had purchased it for his wife and from a I would say a, reputable, jeweler. And when I went to appraise it, this was for a divorce. I put my value on it. And I did claim that the stones needed to be tested. I assumed that they were heated rubies. Because as an appraiser, you have to assume. They were all very uniform in color. They were very included. The inclusions looked synthetic to me. Not synthetic, but heated. And so in my, analysis, I include that and the client was very upset and I said, I'm sorry, I hear what you're saying, but as an appraiser, if they're not tested, I need to assume My opinion is what I'm basing my value off of. He then told me that it was sold to him as a very important provenance had owned it. And it was brought [00:18:00] into the country during World II, and it belonged to someone of importance. And I said, that's lovely. It's a beautiful story, and I'm sure that maybe that is possible. I said, but without any physical provenance, I cannot I use that toward my value and toward my valuation. And it was very difficult. He was, he was very upset, and he ended up calling the jeweler, and they were not able to provide any provenance, and I felt really bad for him. We ended up walking through it, and we went through it, and we understood, and everything is fine. But it's when you buy something, and you think that you're buying X, and you bring it to somebody who's an appraiser, who's not biased, and who has no information on it, unless you can provide the documentation, it becomes a difficult thing for people. So that was very challenging. Oh, there's so many stories.

[00:19:28] Jennifer: if you are an educated buyer, you should ask for that. Absolutely. And a lot of people will call me just to advise them on what to ask, what to say, what should the price be, should I get any documentation. But in this situation, he did not, and the store and the retailer did not offer anything. So if they're not offering you anything, then you have to, as the buyer, understand that you are taking the chance that you are buying something that is heated. That might not be Burmese. They looked Thai to me. And you take that risk. But when [00:20:00] you're uneducated and you're buying for love, and you're buying because it's beautiful, you know, you can run into a little bit of an issue there. So nowadays a lot of people buy, but they don't always have certificates. And, you know, sometimes you buy at auction and there's no certificate, which most of the time there is. But, or you buy from a dealer and there's no certificate. To me that's always a red flag. So, no matter what I would advise, always a certificate. But, you know, as an appraiser, I see a lot of emeralds and sapphires and rubies. And I have to include in my disclosures and in my limiting conditions as an appraiser that these pieces were not tested at a gemological lab. Therefore, the value is based on my opinion. And should we test these stones, and they come back different from my opinion, the value is subject to change and I have to include that every single time because they should be tested. There are so many fillers for emeralds and different heating mechanisms for [00:21:00] rubies and different origins for rubies and different ratings for the rubies and grades, you know, for colors and sapphires and, and whatnot. And it's dangerous for an appraiser really to just assume that something is Kashmir without knowing, you know, and it becomes a little bit of an issue for appraisers. So no matter what I advise people to have a certificate done, and if they choose not to, that is, that is completely up to them. But it's very important. Very.

[00:22:01] Jennifer: Study. Study the market. Learn the market, follow the auctions. I religiously listen and follow auctions all day long while I'm working. See everything you can see, learn price per carat, learn signed pieces, learn signatures, learn the different, treatments that can be done to colored stones, learn about diamonds, learn everything, see everything. Really the key to being an appraiser is just your experience and your knowledge. Go to an auction house, work at an auction house, very important. work for a wholesaler. it's really everything, your experience. And you have to build it up. And learn history. You know, there are many historians who would make wonderful appraisers. There are many appraisers that have recently contacted me and saying, Oh, I'm starting to do this now and, this now. How do you do this? And you know what? It's based on, just learning and getting comfortable taking ownership over what you believe trusting your gut which is so crucial because your gut knows if you know [00:23:00] jewelry, you know I can look at a ruby an emerald sapphire and I can say no matter what. Oh, that's it and that color is ingrained in your head same with stones and diamonds and pieces of jewelry, like the piece that you saw at Christie's Paris, you just know when it's special. So trust your gut and just study, study, follow the markets, follow the auctions, everything. You learn something new every day. You see something beautiful most of the days. Everybody has different style and taste and you meet lots of people. It's wonderful.

[00:23:37] Jennifer: it. so much jewelry to go around. We all need help. There are very few appraisers in the city right now. and I see it and I feel it because I'm getting calls left and right and I don't like to turn down people because I want to help. But each time I'm, saying, okay, I'm quoting now eight weeks out for a final product. And, it's the nature of the business, but it's a beautiful business. And it's, slightly different [00:24:00] because many other people in the business sell and buy. I don't do any of that. So for me, it's strictly seeing the jewelry, falling in love with the jewelry and putting a value on it. And that's how my brain thinks.

[00:24:40] Jennifer: You. This was so wonderful. I'm so happy and keep doing your show. It makes me very happy.

[00:24:49] Jennifer: Thank you.

 Thank you for listening to the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast by Rappaport Jewelry Pro. This episode was hosted by Sonia Ester Soltani and produced and edited by Vanina You can find all our episodes on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and read more about diamonds, colored gemstones, high jewelry designers, estate jewelry, and the latest jewelry trends on Rappaport. com slash Jewelry Connoisseur. Please subscribe to get all our new episodes and if you liked this one, leave us a review.