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Leveraging NACA: Real Estate Investment Tips from Mark Jones II | Ep. 98
Episode 9821st April 2022 • Money Talk With Tiff • Tiffany Grant
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In this episode of Money Talk with Tiff, host Tiffany Grant speaks with Mark Jones II, a real estate investor and founder of "Livin Rent Free." Mark shares insights about the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America (NACA), a platform offering zero money down and zero closing costs mortgages.

He explains the eligibility criteria and discusses the opportunities and challenges of the NACA program. Mark also delves into the concept of house hacking and the potential of using section 8 vouchers to pay for mortgages.

If you're looking to delve into real estate investment and learn about unique financing options, this episode is a must-listen!

About Our Guest

Mark Jones II is a Los Angeles native. Growing up in Los Angeles, Mark was inspired by the real estate developer Rick Caruso of Caruso Affiliates and his developments The Grove and The Americana. As a child, seeing huge Caruso® real estate developments spring up inspired him to create something of his own. In a way it empowered Mark. He asked himself, “If other people could create something beautiful in real estate that brought such beauty and enjoyment into the lives of others, why couldn’t I?”

Connect with Mark

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/livinrentfree/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@livinrentfree

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@livinrentfree_

Connect with Tiffany

Facebook: Money Talk With Tiff

Twitter: @moneytalkwitht

Instagram: @moneytalkwitht

LinkedIn: Tiffany Grant

Timestamps

[00:00] NACA protects homeowners from predatory lending practices.

[03:17] Man sued banks, funds NACA program for mortgages.

[08:56] Real estate options depend on income level.

[10:08] Gentrification brings investment opportunities in evolving neighborhoods.

[13:35] NACA program offers unique options, some limitations.

[17:13] Took a risk, profited big in LA.

[23:29] House hacking: live in part, rent out rest.

Key Topics

  • NACA Program: Zero Down Payment and Closing Costs
  • Real Estate Investing: Multifamily House Hacking Strategy
  • Section 8 Vouchers: Potential for Home Purchase
  • Community Development: Advocacy for Homeownership
  • Financial Literacy: Wealth Building through Real Estate
  • Eligibility and Criteria: Qualifications and Caveats
  • Flexibility and Options: Lower Interest Rates and Rehab Financing

Additional Links & Resources

Support this Podcast


Copyright 2024 Tiffany Grant

Transcripts

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You know what it is. That's right. It's time to talk money with your

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money nerd and financial coach. Now, tighten those purse

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strings and open those ears. It's the money talk with TIFF

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podcast. Hey,

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everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Money Talk with TIFF podcast. So

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today on the line, I have Mark Jones II, and he is a

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Los Angeles native and a real estate developer

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in Los Angeles. I find it so

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interesting that Mark, he says in his bio

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that he grew up and he was inspired by a real estate

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developer where he lives, and then that's how he got into real estate.

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And so now he operates and rent free,

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which is a platform dedicated to courses and

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just teaching people about how they can grow their money with real estate.

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So thank you so much, Mark, for coming on the show today.

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Tiff, thank you for the invite. Just for clarification, I am a real estate

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investor, not a developer yet. Yeah, just for clarification. Yeah. Okay.

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But we're going to go ahead and claim it. Yeah. Because that's

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a big step. But one of my early inspirations is Rick

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Caruso, huge real estate developer here in LA. And

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he's actually running for mayor of Los Angeles, too. He just announced that.

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Oh, wow. Nice. Well, you Los Angeles folks that are

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listening in, you heard it here first. So definitely

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tap into that. But thank you so much, Mark,

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for coming on. And I just want to give people a little bit of background

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onto how you even got on the show. Right. So I

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was just on Twitter, you know, how y'all just be on social media, we all

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just be on there. And he mentioned something called

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NACA, and I want to say it's NACA. Right.

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Okay. And I said, I'd never heard of such a

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thing. And he was just blowing my minds with all this facts and

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figures and things he was throwing out. So I said, I have to have you

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on my show to spread this good news about this program, because I feel

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like it will help a lot of people. So, Mark, what

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is NACA? So, NACA is neighborhood Assistance Corporation

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of America. It's a nonprofit organization that

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focuses on community development. And

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the short version of the long story is

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that the founder of NACA, or NACA,

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Bruce Marks, he used to be,

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like, not a lobbyist, but he used to advocate

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for union workers rights and things like

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that. And he transitioned into protecting

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homeowners from predatory lenders in

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the. So back in the day, and currently, honestly,

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this racism, sexism stuff, ageism still goes on, but

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back in the day, there was a lot of predatory

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lending against us. African Americans, also elderly people.

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And what they would do is they would steal equity

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from the elderly or for people that had properties with equity,

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they would offer higher interest rates to African Americans that had the same

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risk profile as other races or ethnicities. And

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then people with English as a second language, like

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Hispanics and different people, they would also steal their

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equity. So what he did was he proved that and

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sued them and got billions of dollars from banks like

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bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase. And now that

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money through the NACA program is used for down payment

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assistance and closing cost assistance. The great thing about

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the NACA program is zero money down

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and zero closing costs. So when I say zero money down and zero closing

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costs, people are like, well, are there fees? Yeah, there are additional

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fees, of course, but it's a truly zero down payment,

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zero closing cost mortgage. It's one of the

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best mortgages in America, if not the best in America.

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So she found me on Twitter because I was talking about an

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ex girlfriend of mine who used a program,

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and obviously it didn't work out. She was my ex. But before I started my

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brand, I always talk to people about real estate and say, hey, you do this,

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do that. And I realized, look, you got to find your

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tribe. Because now people pay me to teach them the stuff I used

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to try and give away for free. But I thought she wasn't listening.

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But like a year or so later, a year and a half after we broke

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up, maybe two years, I get a random text from her and she's like,

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oh, so grateful. This and that. Thank you. I'm like, what are we talking about?

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And so she's like, I bought a four unit in a good neighborhood in Los

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Angeles worth over a million dollars. Zero money

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down, zero closing costs. So I

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have students that are doing that all across the country, and I've done it myself.

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I have clients that are buying properties now over a million dollars and four units.

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But it was something special to see her, who I've never thought was listening,

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to actually apply. And so sometimes I post about that, and

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it's a little catchy, so it gets people's attention,

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but it's true. It all works. Yeah. And see, that's what

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reeled me in, because I was like, wait a minute, hold on. Where was

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Mark when I bought my house back in

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2017? No, but all jokes

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aside, though, it sounds like it's a wonderful program. And like I said, I had

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never heard of it. So I'm sure there are people listening in or people that

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have still never heard of it. And so, thank you so much for coming on

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just to share about this platform. Now, as far as eligibility

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is concerned, what can you tell us about that?

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There are some caveats. It's kind of like with anything,

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there's like trade offs, right? And then there's qualifications or numbers that

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you may need. When I say numbers, I mean like

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money brought to the table. But some of the qualifications is

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like, the cool thing is that there's no upper income limits. So you could work

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in tech, you could be a doctor. One of my clients makes almost

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200 grand, and we just open escrow on a four unit. So no

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income limits. Right. They also have no minimum credit score

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requirements. So all other loan programs,

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literally, like almost all other loan programs, you have to have at least

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like a 580 or 620. With NACA program, there's

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no minimum credit score requirements. They work with

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you to prove your credit

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trustworthiness through. If you're paying cell phone bills, if

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you're paying your Netflix or cable, whatever, they figure out a way to make

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it documented that you'll pay things back. But

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this is a caveat. It's two of them.

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They're upper, not income, upper purchase price limits. So in

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higher cost of living areas, like New York, San Francisco,

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La, the purchase price is higher. And

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then in middle income, lower

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kind of cost of living places, then of course it's going to be lower.

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So, for example, in New York, La, San Francisco,

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for a four unit property, the upper limit is 1.4 million.

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Now, I will say a couple of years ago that was

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fine, but now with inflation happening and

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all the home values skyrocketing, other

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loan programs have gone from like 1.5 million to 1.8

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million as their upper limit. But NACA is still like a

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few years behind at 1.4. So you will still find

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some, but it's getting harder now that the prices are

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kind of getting pushed up. But there's that, and then there's something

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called a priority member and a non priority member.

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So priority members are people that make within the

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median income of these priority

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areas. Right. And so what that means is that, say in

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La county, let me take a step back. A priority member is

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defined as someone that makes a certain

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percentage, no more than 100% of the median income in the county that they're trying

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to buy. So let me clarify. So in LA, for example, I

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think it's 79,000 is our median income,

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76 or 79,000. You can just look it up. Median

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income plus your county, or median income plus your city and you'll find it.

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So if you make more than that, you become non

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priority. Let's define priority and what's their

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benefits, right? So priority, they get a lower interest rate. Usually it's

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like half a percent or maybe sometimes even a percent

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lower than if you're a non priority. So that means your mortgage is going to

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be a lot cheaper. And then also with priority members,

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you can buy anywhere. It doesn't matter if it's in Beverly Hills. If

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you find a property that's in Beverly Hills or a good neighborhood, if you

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priority, you don't make a lot of money. You probably don't be able to buy

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in Beverly Hills. But let's just say there's no limit.

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Go ahead. But you could. It feels like a

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freak thing where you found something off market and you

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knew the neighbor and they wanted to give it to you or something, then it

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could work. But generally speaking, you can buy anywhere. There's

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no restrictions in terms of geographical restrictions. Right? Now, if

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you're non priority, the interest rate is

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higher, right? But you have to

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buy, I should say, if the interest rate is higher. But if you

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buy in these areas that are

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80% of the median income. So

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the reason why I teach this in depth is I have

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all this stuff memorized, but it's a lot of information, right? So

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that's why I like to say, hey, come to my page, learn from my page,

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because I give a lot of free information away, like how you found me, right?

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So it's very difficult to kind of memorize everything. But

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the point is that if you buy in an area where the

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incomes are 80% of

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that 79,000 that we talked about in La county, right.

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Then what you can do is now you're considered like,

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you become a priority member, even if you're making 100 grand, 200 grand,

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whatever amount you're making. And so some people that

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may not work for me because I want to live in the hippiest, coolest part

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of downtown. So I say, fine, no problem, do your

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thing. But this is where it works for a lot of people who are wise

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and who've learned from me. When a place is

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gentrifying, what changes is the commercial

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parts of the area, right? So now you have like pilates

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and yoga and coffee shops and bars, right? But a

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lot of times it takes years for the median income to

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change because the owners in the neighborhood are still the

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abuelas grandmother, grandfather, older people who've been living

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there for 30 years that have stable incomes and that have

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stable static mortgages because they bought

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2030 years ago, and so now their mortgages are really low, or

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ten years ago, mortgages are lower and all the purchase

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prices around them are going up. But the majority of the people in the neighborhood

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still have suppressed incomes, right? So what that means

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is that you can go buy in what was Brooklyn's eight

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years ago, Brooklyn ten years ago, or whatever,

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in these gentrifying areas that haven't completely been

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gentrified, and you can still qualify for those

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areas. But if you're already ready made,

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already nice neighborhoods, Brickell and Miami, you know what I mean?

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Brooklyn now, things like that, you're not going to be able to get in with

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this program necessarily, but

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it can work if you play it smart. And the reason why it's really wise

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to do it is because I advocate people to buy multifamily

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properties. So now you're getting an investment property for no

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money out of your pocket, which for me is like in

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America, they barely give away anything for free. So it's almost like you're

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getting a property for free. It's not for free because you

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still have fees that you have to come to the table. It's about like 1%

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of the purchase price. So if it's a million dollar property, you need like ten

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grand, and then you need like reserves as well,

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just in case something like the pandemic happens. You got to have money to be

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able to pay the mortgage for three to six months, depending on what kind of

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property. Actually, it's four to six months, depending on what kind of property you buy.

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Some of the amazing features of the program is

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that you can also get some of the lowest

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interest rates in the country. So as

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compared to any other loan program, NACA

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offers very low interest rates. They'll be anywhere

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between like half a percent and a percent lower

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than FHA, conventional and

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VA loans. And what that means is just that

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your mortgage payment is going to be lower, right? So it's more

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affordable. Another thing is that the program allows you

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to finance rehabs. So

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now finance the rehab. People are like, well, if you finance

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it, then you still have to pay for it in the long term,

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right? Because you finance something, you spread it out over the 30 year period.

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But the good thing is when you finance it, they allow you to

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and you're able to buy down the interest rate. So you

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finance it, buy down the interest rate. So now, although you

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added the cost of the rehab,

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you've brought the payment down to where it would be as

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if you never added the financing. So there's a lot of

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options, and it's just a

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very unique program. Some of the downsides, though, again,

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are they require you to live in the property for the

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life of the loan. So that really shuns a lot of people and

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turns a lot of people off and away. But if you're strategic, you can figure

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out a way to actually refinance that

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loan and get out of that NACA program and then still have

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the property. Right? So ownership gives you options. You're not

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going to be limited for the 30 years having to live there.

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Some people commit fraud, which I never recommend publicly

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or privately, but there's no, quote unquote, NACA

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police, so they're not going to come knocking on your door every week checking

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to make sure you live there. So some people, after a few years, they'll

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sublet a unit or move out or whatever. Again, don't

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recommend that, publicly or privately. But I always do recommend

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that if you get equity down the line, you want to turn into a

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complete rental, you could refinance and move on and live your

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life. So that's an option. Yes. And it sounds like there's so

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much flexibility with this program, which personally, I

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have an FHA loan, and there's so many restrictions and

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things like that. And so, you know, again, darn, where

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was market when I was buying? FHA is still a

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good loan, though. It's a good program. It is. But this sounds a lot

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better. Like, for instance, I have on their website here,

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I'm actually looking at their rates, and it's looking like

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2.875% for a 30 year and

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2.25% for a 15 year. And those

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are phenomenal. Really low

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because all the rates just went up. Everybody else is getting, like, in the

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threes. And even when I refinanced last year, it was still,

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I think, 3.25, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.

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So these are still really great rates. Let me ask

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you, what was your rate from 2017? Back in

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2017, it was like

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4.75 or something like that. So that was good that you brought

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it down. Yeah. So it was a great deal for me. But

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I'm looking at this generally speaking.

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Generally speaking. But I do want to ask,

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because I wanted to know this for myself. What if you already

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have purchased a home? Or what if you're already in a home? Can

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you still take advantage of this program? Or is it only for first time

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home buyers? Yeah. So I always have to clarify with the

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language. Right. So there's two parts to that question.

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What if you already have a home, and then is it only for first time

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home buyers? So those are different. Right. So is it only for first time home

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buyers? No, it's not only for first time home buyers, but it's a

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nuanced answer. Right. So, for example, I've used

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the program before, but it was the second time I was purchasing a home.

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So I wasn't a first time home buyer as my point. So I was able

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to still purchase, but I wasn't a first time home buyer. But then to go

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to your first question, what if you already living in a home, can

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you go through the program? And I say no. And

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think about it this way. If you already have a home and

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somebody goes and gives you a million dollar

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duplex or triplex in Brooklyn, it's like they're just

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giving away properties, right? So it's good, but it ain't that good. Your

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program is good, but it's not that good. You know what I'm saying? So what

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they're doing is they're promoting community development, community investment.

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And so they're doing it for people who plan on living there. And so

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what I did, which is just a personal thing, it doesn't

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have to be for everyone. But I did the risk rewards

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ratio, right? The trade off the pros and cons, and I had a

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home kind of in the suburbs, and I had the opportunity to buy one on

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the same street, in the same vicinity as the

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sofa stadium where they just had the Super bowl. And so I said,

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okay, I could let go of the peanuts and trade that off and

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go get a multifamily in booming LA

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for the zero down. All I have to do is sell this property.

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And when I sold it, I kept the profits, because, remember, it was

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zero down, zero closing costs. So what I profited from here, I

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pocketed, and then I took a little bit of the

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proceeds for the minimum fees and stuff, and then got that

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triplex, and now it's up almost 400,000 in the last two

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years, which is like, every time I even say that, I'm like, what the hell?

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This is crazy. But I'm just grateful. Yeah, but that's the whole point of living

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free, is like, I teach about the benefits of real estate, and you just have

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to be really strategic about it, and you have to be directionally

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accurate or directionally correct and not specifically

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correct. So that's the good thing about real estate. As long as you're going

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in the right direction, you can get rich, you can

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get wealthy, and it's not get rich quick, but you can get wealthy over

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time. Yeah. And I mean, if it was get rich quick, I'll be like,

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you might want to. So it's a good thing that it's not.

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But I'm over here. Like, I am not married to this house. I can

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go. Give me. But

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all jokes aside, though, there was something else that I read on their website,

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too, and that was about section eight. Are you

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familiar with that? Like using the section eight vouchers and things like

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that? So yes and no. There's two aspects. It depends on

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your question. What is your question specifically about section eight?

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I read on their website. Let me just start there.

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That you could use your section eight vouchers

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to pay for your mortgage. That's what I

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read. So what are your thoughts on that?

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So I think it's a brilliant program, right? I think it's a really great

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program. Generally speaking, I

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only teach about things that I know directly and have experience

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with. And the reason is being in a public eye, it's about

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accountability and transparency stuff, too. But being

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in a public eye, I like feeling comfortable that if anybody asks me a

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question, I can answer it upside down, inside out, because I know it.

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But if I start getting to territory where I'm not that certain people

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in the audience who know it will see that I don't know what I'm talking

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about, and I don't ever want to be in that position. So I'll answer your

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question this way. I actually was on section eight growing up as a kid,

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for most of my life. So I know section eight pretty well from the

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renters perspective. Right. You can rent your units to

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section eight, but I know that's not your question, right. You purchase and then

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you rent out the units to section eight. And it's good money because it's predictable,

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it's stable, it's from the government. Every month during the pandemic, I didn't

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miss one rent payment because they were coming to me

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through section eight. So I've been a section eight landlord.

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The program you're talking about is a program where

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you're on section eight and then you can use the

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vouchers to actually go and purchase a home. It's

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definitely true. The only thing is that out

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of the hundreds of people on the list, it's a very selective list.

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Only a few people a year get approved for

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it out of the whole nation. So not just hundreds. It's like out of thousands

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of people, only a few people each year in each city, each

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state get it and you can look it up on the government website

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that provides it. It's only like a handful

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of people, like really small percentage. And it's amazing. I

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mean, to think about that. You could have section eight

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and take that voucher, turn around and buy a home.

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So it's definitely possible. And there's a list of people who do it every year,

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but it's a very thin list. I think it's like a thousand people

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in the nation or something like that. I don't want to thought a number,

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inaccurate number, but it's like super thin though, really small number. So

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what we're going to do is we're going to say y'all just go to the

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NACA website and educate yourself if you're interested in that part of the

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program because we're not experts in it. But I did see

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that it was possible and so I wanted to make sure that was known

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because I know there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast that are

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on section eight or trying to figure out a way how do

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I transition out of this situation. So that's why

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I wanted to bring that up because it seems like this could

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possibly be an option. And like I tell people all

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the time, just apply. You never know. You never know. At the

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end of the day, you never.

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Idea. Well, we said the way out of poverty is ideas, right?

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One of my quotes which I get from Earl Nightingale is one

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idea can make you rich. So, tiff, I really like that idea

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because Naca, I said it's a slim list. So I don't want to

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discourage people. It's a slim list of people who get it. But Naca actually

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will help you through the process. So if you go to the website in

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the section eight part where you can buy what's using your section eight voucher,

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you'll have somebody that's advocating for you and helping you with the

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process. And then the cool thing is if you don't just buy a house

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with the section eight officer, say, you go around and say, I want to get

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a multifamily. Now you're on section eight, but you're getting

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income from the other units and

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it's helping you to build yourself up wealth and you're also

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providing good housing for maybe other people who are on section eight. So that's a

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really good idea. It's an awesome idea. Yeah. That is

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so awesome. So let me back up a little bit to your last point,

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how you said that you have a multifamily. I love that this program

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allows you to buy a multifamily. And we've mentioned on the podcast

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before about house hacking. So I just wanted to

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reiterate what house hacking is and how you could use it as

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a strategy. House hacking is an amazing strategy. So it's

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when you purchase one to four unit

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property, you live in either one of the rooms,

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if it's a single family or townhouse or whatever

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condo, and then you rent out the other parts of the house or

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property to help you pay for the mortgage. So in a

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multifamily situation, you'll live in one side of the duplex, rent the

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other ones, or live in one of the units side of a triplex or four

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unit, and then you rent out the other ones and it pays for your mortgage.

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Like house hacking supercharged. Now people are putting

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one of the units on Airbnb or renting it out to travel nurses

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to make even more money. But

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the really amazing thing is that most people's largest expense

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every month is their housing expense. So if you can

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eliminate that and then you get rid of your car payment, because, say, you

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buy a used car or something like that, you start stacking up a

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significant amount of money every single month that you can

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save. Right? So what would your life look like if every

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month you're able to save an extra 10 00, 20 00, 10 00,

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$502,500? Man, in no

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time, you'll be making progress. So that's what I teach a lot of

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my students. It changed my life. It made

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me a lot more financially stable and allowed me to get ahead.

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So I really recommend people doing it, even if they just do it

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temporarily. Doesn't have to be forever. Everyone's always like, man, I don't want to live

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next to people, but if it's twelve months

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and then you move out or two years or whatever, you move out, it'll

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really set you up financially. So that's what I recommend. Awesome.

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Well, thank you so much for that refresher. I just wanted to reiterate that because

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you could use this strategy with that strategy and you could just strategize

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your way to wealth. I love how you

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said that. Your way to wealth.

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Yes. And I promise I'll be coming up with this stuff on the fly.

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But anyway, thank you so much, Mark. So, speaking of students, if

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people were interested in learning more about how they can find you, how can they

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learn more about you? Where can they find you? So go

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to Instagram. My Instagram is living rent free.

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So it's L-I-V-I-N no g, just L-I-V-I-N.

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Rent free. And also on Twitter, it's living

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rent free as well, with an underscore at the end

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warning. I'm a little bit uncensored on Twitter, so if you follow

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me on Twitter, it's not just pure real estate stuff, but if you go on

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Instagram, it's just strictly real estate, financial literacy,

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mental health, stuff like that. But yeah, I'm a little bit unfiltered on Twitter, so

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be careful when you follow me. Well, I think everyone is,

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so we definitely have those caveats. But thank you so much, Mark.

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And if you all did not hear that, I will have all of that in

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the show notes. So no worries. If you're trying to hurry up and jot, it'll

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be in the show notes. You can check it out there. And thank you so

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much, Mark, for joining me on the show today and going along

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with me. Just saying, oh, come on the podcast, you're like,

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sure, y'all, here's another lesson

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asking ye shall receive. It's right. So

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anyway, thank you so much, Mark, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of

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your day. Likewise. Thank you, Tiff. Bye.

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Thank you for listening, joining and being a part of the Money Talk with TIFF

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podcast this week. You can check Tiff out every Thursday for a new

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Money talk podcast. But if you just can't wait until next week, you you

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can listen to previous podcast

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episodes@moneytalkwitht.com or

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follow TIFF on all social media platforms at

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moneytalkwitht. Until next time, spend wise

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by spending less than you make. A word to the moneywise is

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always sufficient.

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