Charity is talking to Alice Menya.

And Alice Menya is the Urban Program Coordinator at Nuvoni center, which is an independent research organization based in Nairobi, Kenya, that works together closely with local universities, but also international ones, including in the Netherlands.

Alice is currently a doctoral candidate at the Ardhi University in Dar es Salaam, focusing on planning and governance of resilient cities in East Africa.

She gives us insight into a joint master's program that she's a part of, which brings together Kenyan and Dutch students and explains a lot of the intricacies of what makes it so rewarding, but also difficult to set up internationally collaborative education.

But she also explores interesting and exciting new research approaches, including researching children as a demographic and analyzing people's diaries.

David Ehrhardt

Welcome to Africa knows today Charity is talking to Alice Menya.

And Alice Menya is the Urban Program Coordinator at Nuvoni center, which is an independent research organization based in Nairobi, Kenya, that works together closely with local universities, but also international ones, including in the Netherlands.

Alice is currently a doctoral candidate at the Ardhi University in Dar es Salaam, focusing on planning and governance of resilient cities in East Africa.

She gives us insight into a joint master's program that she's a part of, which brings together Kenyan and Dutch students and explains a lot of the intricacies of what makes it so rewarding, but also difficult to set up internationally collaborative education.

But she also explores interesting and exciting new research approaches, including researching children as a demographic and analyzing people's diaries. Here is Alice Mena.

Charity Mwangi

Perhaps just get more insights into these ideas. What can you say has been that brilliant idea that is keeping you awake.

Alice Menya

Right now? I think what is keeping me going and really, you know, taking my bone here and there and I think is the idea of urban resilience.

I think that's where my interest currently is in.

I think there is with the kinds of uncertainties that are happening across the world and especially in cities, because again, I have a bias in terms of my geographical scope. Usually I deal a lot with cities. And so I know for sure cities is where really a lot is happening.

And I think I feel like the world is organizing at a rate and especially for sub Saharan Africa, that is unprecedented. And within that, then there's a lot of uncertainty.

And here we're talking about issues like climate change issues to do with, of course, the urbanization in itself and the changes that are happening within and the kinds of transformation that are happening within cities. And so cities then have become these, you know, active labs, I think, where we are really engaging with real world problems.

And because you're engaging with real world problems and the uncertainties around them, then really I feel like urban resilience is a topic of great importance in that context. And that's just the main one.

There are also others in terms of, for instance, issues to do with inclusion of people, different people in city, developmental agenda. So those are the things that really, really are exciting. Those are the ideas that I'm currently exploring. Yeah.

And I'm hoping that, you know, as I continue with my work, it's not just about exploring them, but also inspiring change, transformation, in cities. Yeah. Practical solutions, actually. Absolutely, yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Action research.

Alice Menya

Action research, yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Research that has impact. Yes, yeah.

That research impact in of policy and action and maybe just to go a bit, you know, in time, perhaps now you are in the research space and of course it's, it's quite a beautiful space. And then it's. Sometimes it's very difficult to detach between being in academic space and research space.

But could you perhaps shed a bit of light of how your experience was in the academic space before transitioning to the research?

Alice Menya

I feel like they are almost the same. Yeah.

Because even in that academia space, I mean, what we do is also you're encouraged to engage in research and I think especially now we're not talking about the space being, you know, the universities, for instance. Yeah.

And so I believe as a person teaching and inspiring young generations, then there is a lot of research that you have to do into the topics and the courses that you are delivering at the university.

And remember then when you're talking about now being in the university, lecturing students and you know, these are next generation, these are the people who will shape the future of cities. For me, for instance, I teach, I have been in the space of urban and regional planning.

And so you're teaching future leaders, future change makers in this, in the urban space. And that definitely requires a lot of, you know, really researching on what, what topics are of interest, aside from just the curriculum as it is.

Yeah.

And so a lot of the time I've found that even in the space where the curricula can be a bit rigid here and there, there is still space for innovative, you know, ideas to be born. And I think for me, what I liked about being in academia is that the people you teach also inspire you. You learn from them.

And I think a lot of the time you have to keep an open mind. For me, my approach is not really top down, but it's more, let's have a dialogue, a conversation with the students.

Of course you're imparting knowledge, but also I am intrigued by their curiosity, the questions they ask. The way they understand things and interpret things is a bit different.

And sometimes it requires an open mind to really, as a teacher or as a lecturer, for instance, to really listen out to. Particularly for me, it's the undergrads who are close to my heart. Yeah. So I feel like their view, their worldview of things is very different.

And so it takes, I think it takes Will from my side to really view, really respect, of course, their views and also try to imagine whatever their thoughts are through their lenses.

And I think in exploring all that, then, I mean, you really spark conversations that even yourself didn't know that you can actually Spark in a class setting. And so for me, academia has been that.

And I think my, my attitude towards teaching, honestly, is: I try as much as possible to be unconventional so that you're not just coming into class, you know, plastering your, you know, your PowerPoints and leaving it at that, you know, and giving them books to read, but also be creative in terms of also, you know, looking for videos, photos, things that inspire and things that catch their attention. Yeah, and things that excite the students that I teach.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, that's absolutely powerful. You know, just embracing that interactive, horizontal approach of imparting knowledge. And of course, the idea that universities, especially among the undergraduates, is a hub of innovative ideas.

And of course that was quite evident during an engagement we had, which we were calling the Design Studio Competition, where we engaged young students. And of course we got brilliant ideas.

Charity Mwangi

Can transform our city significantly when it comes to matters, climate, resilience. And of course, you've also painted a picture that then academic and research space are quite interwoven.

So now, moving forward or fast forward, in this space that we are in currently, the research space, do you find yourself having opportunities to be able to teach and impart knowledge to young professionals? And how does that look like for you?

Alice Menya

Yes, I do, because I work at Nuvoni center for Innovation Research, where we collaborate a lot with various universities, both international and local, and as a collaborating research, and particularly looking at our European partners, specifically partners from the Netherlands, we find that as we collaborate in research, we also collaborate in hosting students from the universities abroad. And so, like, for instance, currently we are hosting students in what we have fashioned and styled as the Master's thesis lab here at Nuvoni.

And here we are facilitating interaction between Kenyan students, Kenyan master students and Dutch master students. And it's a really interactive setting where there's, of course, cross learning, you know, among the students.

But also how we have designed this thesis lab, what we are calling the thesis lab, is in such a manner that we are also able to offer some course, some, let me say, lectures, mini lectures in seminar style on various topics.

And for instance, we've had sessions where we've talked about methodologies, we've talked about research conceptualization, we've talked about data collection and data collection methods that are appropriate to their research topics and themes. And I find that that really helps.

And I think it is an extension of what I've done in the universities, really meaning it out here in a research institute that is independent from the universities. And so that's not all.

We also engage with PhD students who come in to do their maybe like research that is based in Kenya, particularly where we do interact in terms of even co writing papers with them.

But also we really, really help and support in ensuring we link them up to maybe respondents and policy makers, communities that are working here in Kenya and that are of interest to their studies.

And even as we engage with the students, we do have sessions where we have sessions where they share their research with us and we're able to critique some kind of colloquial of sorts. And this really, really then helps. So it means then you are engaging with students. Actually yearly we've been engaging with various students.

We have also as a center engaged with bachelor students in what we call a frugal minor course.

And here where we have students coming in for like three months and we are able to take them through sessions, field sessions on the work they do and the course that they undertake under what we call the frugal innovations concept.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, that is quite interesting. You know, it goes back to the point of the academic space and research are quite interwoven.

Alice Menya

Exactly.

Charity Mwangi

You know, you cannot do detach the two because it feels like you're still continuing the amazing work you're doing in the academic space. Now you've transitioned it to your work which is in the research space.

And perhaps you've mentioned the master's thesis lab, which is quite interesting. Maybe just to for a small deep dive. What is the long term vision for that master's thesis lab, especially for you as a researcher?

Alice Menya

I should say that when this was being conceptualized, of course, and I will also refer to the other students that come in, we always try to align our, the students coming in with the kinds of research activities or research themes or research areas that we are already engaging in.

So that it becomes almost, you're bringing the students into the research that you're doing and with that then you engage them in like for instance, data collection, data analysis. You know, it's a process in different pieces of research.

And so the long term vision of the lab is that one, apart from just that cross cultural exchange that happens and the cross lining that happens between the European students and the Kenyan students, we are also expanding it. We are likely to expand it to East Africa, East African students. Then we come up with, we frame research agenda that are also action oriented.

Yeah, because the idea is, and we keep on preaching here at our center here that the idea is to minimize what we call research waste. Research waste being research that does not translate in any kind of impact you know, we want to get rid of, you know, duplication of research.

You know, just doing research for the sake of it. Research with a purpose. Okay. And so for us, action research is really at the core of what we do.

And so through this master's thesis work, we are hoping that we will frame agendas that then we can co develop with different partners, policymakers, practitioners, communities, in such a manner that then we engage in research that ultimately leads to some kind of policy or practical transformation. Yeah. And particularly for cities in Kenya, but also hopefully, and ultimately in Africa, the wider region. Yes.

Charity Mwangi

Especially now that you're expanding to engage students within the East Africa geographic confines. I think this is quite powerful. And also it helps the students move their work from the to practice, interact with communities.

Alice Menya

Exactly. And I think that's the emphasis here for us. Yeah. Because when they are here, then we really link them up to like policymakers, for instance.

I know we are going to link them up with like people from the county government of Nairobi. We're going to link them up with. I know. I think there's one who's working in FICA in one of their sites is in fica.

There are others who are working in informal settlements, actually someone tackling a very big issue of urban flooding in one of our informal settlements in Nairobi.

And so there's also other startling issues to do, like energy planning, which is a bit broader and not necessarily in a particular, you know, settlement, but just looking at policy issues in that sector. So you can see that all this first of all align with what already, what we are doing here in terms of research currently.

And so it's just feeding evidence. Yeah. And building evidence to ensure that there's some kind of impact at the end of it. Honesty.

And I think through the engagements that you're doing, then you're also exposing these students to real world issues. So it's not about, oh, just come in, test theory or you know, just do your thing and go. No, no, no, no.

Want to engage them in such a manner that then you really, after it all, and even in documenting the experiences, there's something valuable and there's something that they are proud of, both themselves and for us who are still in this, you know, kind of trying to as much as possible ensure that whatever we churn out from our center then impacts policy in a way, impacts, you know, some kind of material change, you know, in the cities that we are engaged with. Yeah, so that's basically what I would say. Yeah, I think that's quite powerful.

Charity Mwangi

Just nurturing the Young professionals. And you've mentioned put a lot of emphasis on how you are working with policy makers and also other universities, especially.

Alice Menya

In the master's basis lab, basically in.

Charity Mwangi

How you're engaging students and young professionals. Maybe.

Is it also open, is it an initiative that's also open to other development institutions apart from policymakers and universities, or is it something you're exploring for the long run?

Alice Menya

I think we're exploring, I must say that these are piloting fees for the master's discipline and I think we're waiting for it to kind of, let's see, it's a learning process for us.

I think the key theme here, this first phase is just to document the learnings, of course, and see how then we model something that, you know, will be bigger than what it is right now. Ideally we would want to engage with other development partners and all that. I mean, if you're talking action research, you've got to go all the way.

You've got to go all the way. Because this action that you're talking about doesn't happen out of the blue. It happens from collaboration with different kinds of stakeholders.

And again, remember, even when you're talking about solutions, you know, coming up with solutions, these things are co produced a lot of the time. You can't just sit down and be like, okay, so, so I'll come up with this solution and I'll give it to the policymakers to do it.

Then the policymakers will have to figure out who is funding, for instance, in case there's no funding for such development partners. But also just knowledge building. Knowledge is something that requires an array of stakeholders really. So we are really open to such ideas.

And thank you actually for such a good idea that proposed. I think it's, it's definitely, it's as it evolves, we are potentially looking into expanding that way. Yeah.

And we're hoping that our pilot phase will, you know, will give some good learnings and then we're hoping to scale it, honestly. Yeah. Because I feel like there's so much potential in such interaction in such engagements. Yeah.

And especially when you're targeting, you know, not only students, but, you know, the whole area of, you know, of partners. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

And making the research a reality.

Alice Menya

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Because really that's the bottom line. Yeah. Can we solve real world issues? Of course.

Charity Mwangi

Liberating on the skill set of everyone.

Alice Menya

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charity Mwangi

And perhaps now shifting focus a little bit. Of course, we, we know the importance of research. You've really elaborated on that. And I know Research also comes with its challenges.

So perhaps from your point of view, what are some of the complex challenges that you've experienced in this space of research and how have you gone about addressing some of these challenges?

Alice Menya

What can I say about challenges,...

Charity Mwangi

Especially from a Global Southward perspective.

Alice Menya

Yeah. I think a lot of the time the Global south is treated as an underdog, really in some of this research, you know, there's this power dynamics.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

Because a lot of funding also comes from the north, really, I must say. And so there are times that we have partners that are coming in or approaching you to collaborate, but you become a secondary actor. Yeah.

And so then you're relegated to roles that they propose really getting you to rules like, you know, data collection because, you know, you're dealing with maybe a city in Kenya, for instance, you know. And so a lot of the time there's a lot of renegotiation that happens. Yeah. And there are tensions, of course, in that.

In the renegotiations that happen in terms of, you know, claiming space as the expert. Yeah. In the Global South. Yeah. So such tensions then sometimes of course, do reflect in, you know, the. The process. Yeah.

They can hinder the process, delay the process. I think that's the main challenge, honestly, that dynamic, the Global South, Global north dynamic.

But also another challenge is that when we are designing a research or framing a problem a lot of the time, especially because if it's not co-framed, that is between the partners who are involved in the research, then you find that in the course, of course, executing this research, looking at the research faces, you're likely to, you know, come across hurdles in terms of probably. It's. What can I say? It's not context specific. It's not context fit, if I may use that word. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Not aligned.

Alice Menya

Not aligned to what is on the ground.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

Yeah. But they are also researchers that come with predetermined notions. Yeah. And they're like, we need to solve.

This is the problem that you need to solve. So such things happen. Those are the challenges that happen. But a lot of the time it takes dialogue.

It takes dialogue to really iron out some of these issues.

And I must say and acknowledge that a lot of the time, if you get a good research team, then you're able to iron out all those tensions and you're able to really engage in that research in a seamless manner. And I think the climax of it all is the results at the end. Yeah.

When you do concluding the project and the findings that you unearth from that journey then become really Something that, again, really keep the conversation going. Because I think research is cyclical. You finish, and they always. They always ask to do.

Charity Mwangi

To.

Alice Menya

To. To propose areas for further.

Charity Mwangi

Further research.

Alice Menya

Yes. Further inquiry.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

Yeah. So I think. I like that. That the goal is to keep the conversation going. And I think that's what I really, really love about research. Yeah. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

And do you feel like, based on the challenges that you've mentioned, especially the power dynamics and I think the language adapted today how to decolonize research?

Alice Menya

Yes, I do want to use that. Yeah, you brought it up. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

That's the language. Given that I'm also in the research space, I absolutely understand some of these challenges that you're mentioning.

Do you feel like we are making any progress in addressing some of these challenges collectively? Are we making progress? Oh, that's.

Alice Menya

I feel like that's a tough question right now from where I'm sitting. Yeah. I feel like I. I feel like saying yes and no, but maybe the compromise here would say, I think it's work in progress.

Honestly, it's work in progress. We are not yet there. Yeah. And I think it. It still takes a lot of courage and audacity to challenge some of this. It's a culture that is inbuilt.

You know, it's. It's been there for time immemorial. And so, as you're saying, when talking about colonization, there is really. There are so a lot, lots of nuances to decolonization. Yeah, yeah. So I feel like we are not yet there, but there's something happening. There's something happening.

And I want to believe that in I don't know how many years I project, but I feel like things will change and the ground will shift and we'll see what. What then happens. But what I can say is that I'm very optimistic that we are challenging some of these inbuilt.

Let me use the word hegemony or dominances or, you know, the Global North, Global south, the weird power dynamics that, you know, happen there.

But I also would like to encourage, you know, researchers and academicians in the Global south to be as innovative and to be, you know, to be out there, because I think maybe we face challenges, and a lot of the time it boils down sometimes to resources. But I feel like if we put our mind collectively, all of us. Yeah. We can really push boundaries and do things that are revolutionary, honestly.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

And it's a step at a time.

Alice Menya

One step at a time.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Perhaps shifting a little bit still in the conversation. Of research. I know we've discussed a lot about what excites you about research.

What are some of the key challenges you face, what you can collectively do to work together through collaborations to address some of these key challenges.

Perhaps the other question that I want to pose to you is as an institution, how do you usually come up with your research topics given that you've just highlighted some of the challenges?

Sometimes the research is predetermined, but in the case it is not, how do you identify some of these research topics or even objectives that you want to focus on in the context of your work?

Alice Menya

So as an organization, we do have, let me say, five cross cutting themes that we kind of look at in whatever work that we are doing.

We have resilience as one of them, we have frugality as one of them, we have informality as one thing because we are realizing that Africa, Africa's urbanization is informal. I think then there's, that's a whole, you know, topic in itself that stands out. Then what are the themes? There's inclusion. Yeah. Governance.

Charity Mwangi

Governance. All right, there it is.

Alice Menya

Yeah, thank you.

Charity Mwangi

Governance.

Alice Menya

Just to be governance. Yeah. In all its forms. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Yes.

Alice Menya

So the five main cross cutting things. Yeah.

And so as we engage in research then a lot of the time also when you, we, when you really listen out you in the policy circles, because we do engage a lot with policy makers in different fora, again with communities, then you're able to frame research agenda out of such engagements.

But also there's a lot of course readings as you read and you identify research gaps in literature, then you're able to actually frame some research agenda and really frame it in a way that then leads to action research. Remember that's the bottom line.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

Yes. Yeah.

So looking at those guiding themes, those cross cutting themes, then you look at what is currently in terms of the trends, what are the real world issues that people are really dealing with, whether it's in the communities, in the policy circles, what is happening in the development world because you have development partners also pushing their agenda and all that. We also kind of look at some of the policies that are coming out of some of these development agencies or partners.

You kind of critically reflect upon them and see then how we frame agenda from that.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, that's quite powerful.

You know, just working with policymakers and communities and everyone else in these space to just develop, you know, the research agenda that is, for lack of a better word, demand driven. It is contextual and addresses the needs of communities.

And like in a place where you sit in an office setting and decide, this is the problem of the people. We are going to address this problem of the people. Then you shift focus and really work with the people. And that is how research has impact.

I know you've really mentioned collaborations in a number of occasions. You've mentioned you work with policymakers, you work with the academic space.

You've also mentioned a very key group, which is the community, because all this work is geared towards impacting the lives of the communities. So I would want you to share with our audiences. In brief, how does collaboration look like for you?

Alice Menya

How does collaboration look like for us? It's flexible, it's integrative as much as possible. Yeah. It's transdisciplinary or interdisciplinary. You know, people say that. Yeah.

And it takes patience. Yeah. I think it takes patience, one to learn. Who are these people you want to collaborate with? How do they work? What do they like?

What is their mode of operation really? How do you create synergies amongst these groups? Yeah.

Especially because a lot of the time we try as much as possible to bring in the researcher, the society, in terms of the community and the policy people together. We'd like to look at that. But also like development partners. Who are they? What are their interests? Yeah.

And how do you then mediate between these different interests? Yeah. To form a collective goal. So you have to be trusting me, as flexible as possible. You have to be as inclusive as possible.

You have to respect their knowledge. I think that's very, very important. As for us, for me also, as a researcher, I do not take a standpoint where I'm looking at myself as an expert.

I look at myself as a learner in the process. Honestly, I'm always learning. And I think that's something that is in me, like, looking at my guiding principle in this research journey.

I am a learner. Yeah. And learning that can derive from really everyone, even the most.

The person who you think has no knowledge really has, in fact, very, very unique kind of knowledge, what I'm calling the tacit knowledge, knowledge that has not been written anywhere, but it's something that they've learned through the days. And it's just knowledge, it's in them, you know?

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

And you see, to unlock that, it means that you need to incorporate this person, you need to listen, you need to speak his language or her language for you to actually have a conversation. Yeah. And to have a dialogue that then materializes into something that, you know, can drive change. Yeah.

So for me, that's collaboration and it could be Also with, when you're talking about development partners who are probably funding you, for instance, what are their interests? What, what is it that they want to know? What is it, what is, what are the problems they want to solve, for instance? Yeah.

It doesn't mean that then you, you, you, you compromise your integrity, the integrity of research. No, because sometimes, of course, there are challenges when the development partners have their own agenda. Yeah.

And so you have to be as impartial as possible. You have to be very objective. Yeah. But still accommodate their perspectives. Yeah. And I think that's why I still insist research is dialogue.

Yes, it is dialogue, honestly. Yeah. And it's a dialogue that really unites people and sometimes divides people.

But I think they are, for me, ultimately should unite people towards a common goal that is geared towards really solution.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, very solution oriented.

And of course, the humility of just knowing that you are a learner in this space and not an expert is very important because I think the perception of being an expert is what creates the, the gaps that we see in research, you know, prevents research from adapting that indigenous knowledge that is transformative.

Alice Menya

Exactly.

And also I think one of those things and maybe what, what I'd say for, for researchers, usually, I think the expertise they bring is their curiosity, honestly.

I think it's your curiosity, that intellectual curiosity that then helps you to, to ask questions and relevant questions and questions that, you know, that your respondents or the people you're collaborating with can engage with. Yeah. Constructively.

Charity Mwangi

Yes.

Alice Menya

Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

This is very powerful. I'll make it my mantra. The research expertise that you have to bring on the table is the intellectual curiosity.

Alice Menya

I think so, I think, yeah, absolutely.

Charity Mwangi

Absolutely. And of course you mentioned some of the existing trends and topics at the moment, which included urban resilience and climate change.

Perhaps to take you back a little bit, given that this is what, perhaps the world is shifting focus towards, what are some of the topics that you would advise young professionals or even students who are doing their masters and PhDs to focus on?

Alice Menya

That's a tough question, honestly asking. Yeah, it's tough.

But I think where we are heading to with AI digitalization, you know, there's really a lot that is happening in the digital sphere space that I feel, for instance, the students who are in the urban space are not fully maximizing kind of that, you know. Yeah.

So I feel like, because this world is moving at a pace that I myself cannot understand and cannot keep up with, I feel like that's the future, the digitalization of, you know, this world and how that will just affect, you know, how we live. Literally. I feel like that's. And that just talking broadly, I feel like that's. That's where it is.

But even as we think about the future, I feel like still topics that we are dealing with right now, things like climate change, I think is something that really requires much of our attention.

Also, topics that I think related to inclusion are really, really important because in this very dynamic world, we are increasingly being marginalized in one form or another. Yeah. You might think you're not a marginalized, you know, demographic, but if you look deeper, you are in one way or another.

So I feel like inclusion is one of those topics that. Or rather just themes that should keep on running through our research work.

But also I feel like cities being the frontier in terms of development, there should be these areas that are transitional areas between the cities and the rural hinterland. I honestly think these are areas that still need to be studied because as it is right now, I feel like they are ambiguous spaces.

Yeah, anything goes. Yeah.

Yet if you look at even our cities as they are right now, some of the sections and within our cities used to be, you know, these rural internals. Yeah. So I feel like the boundaries keeps on shifting and shifting and they don't know what that has for, like rural areas, I do not know.

And so in that space, I'd call it maybe. Yeah, that ambiguous space then I feel like there is a lot to be learned.

Charity Mwangi

Development is eating into our rural spaces and therefore planning should precede development.

Alice Menya

Yeah, not only planning, just everything, literally everything should proceed.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah.

Alice Menya

Because I feel like we are hurting. Yeah. The rural hinterland. Yeah, yeah, we are really hurting that. And the risk of that.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, the risk of that is that we'll have the crisis we have in the city at the moment.

Alice Menya

Yeah, at the moment, exactly. Yeah. And this. This spaces were supposed to really buffer us from some of those, you know, intensive. For instance, we're talking about climate change.

Those are spaces that have buffered us from the kind of extreme impacts that we are facing right now. Yeah. But also encouraging interdisciplinary research. Right.

Charity Mwangi

We are coming to a close of the podcast.

Almost there, but still a few more questions is quite an interactive conversation that I would want to keep going maybe just to shift focus a little bit. We really talked about research. This question is still geared towards research.

You've really highlighted how you are able to come up with your research topics or research agenda.

Then given that now you have a research agenda and to the next immediate steps, how are you able to come up with your methodological approaches that you'll be able to cover this research agenda that you set as an institution.

Alice Menya

I feel like both as an institution and also as myself, I find that my methodological approach has evolved organically, if I may say so, through the experiences that I've had.

And because also the emphasis on the traditional approaches, very top down interview, I interviewed and we are done then, have led me to really look back and reflect and say, well, I cannot have predetermined methodological approaches. It all depends with what problem are you dealing with. Yeah. What research problem are you tackling? Yeah. Who are you engaging with in this research?

And so increasingly, because for some reason I have a bias on qualitative research because I think it delves deeper. Yeah. It unearths more, it uncovers much more than quantitative. Yeah, yeah.

And that's just a bias then I feel like participatory methods are very, very important. They're very, very essential. Storytelling is one of those ways that is, I think, revolutionizing research in one way or another.

And this storytelling is as exciting as, you know, whether it's photovoice, whether it's videos, whether it's this social media, you know, every, you know, the short clips that people do, they're so informative and all that. Yeah.

So I think there is a shift from just traditional, very, you know, rigid and very serious methodologies to more fun, more creative methodologies. And so I can't say I'm an expert in the creativity, but I'm exploring those creative methodologies and methodological approaches.

And one of those ways also of doing this participatory thing. You've heard of co creation, co design, a lot of our methodological approaches revolve around that. Yeah. And then you realize that. Yes.

Now you get the conversation really going. You really open up people when they're interacting in such settings.

The other thing that is evolving and something that I'm keen on really exploring is gaming gamification as a research methodology itself. So that's probably my. Yeah. Homework now. Really exploring how that happens. Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Wow, that is quite an innovative one. I really want to follow up and look at this works and perhaps join in one of those forums.

Alice Menya

Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's something that.

Yeah, of course right now it's more of doing the groundwork, so trying to understand it then deploying it in one of our research. Yeah. And it would be. Honestly, I think it's easy. It's one of those things that then keep everyone really engaged. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

And it means Also know when I talk about inclusions, even children. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, children. Yeah. Very, very forgotten. Yeah. And they're the most.

I feel like their innocence then also reveals a lot of knowledge from within that very. Just in very innocent, almost pure kind of knowledge. And their perspectives are so pure. Yeah. That I feel they do ignite something in you.

A deeper thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charity Mwangi

This is quite an interesting demographic and.

Alice Menya

They really have a voice.

Charity Mwangi

They do all the development work.

Alice Menya

Exactly.

Charity Mwangi

But unfortunately it's a, it's a demographic that is quite sideline especially because of the content that comes with.

Alice Menya

Yeah, of course.

Charity Mwangi

That comes with having to engage ages below 18 years. And of course this is quite a research area that has not been really explored. It has a lot of potential. But I also love that you're mentioning.

You really avoid the top down approach because I think as a researcher this is quite. It's usually an extractive way of engaging where you're just there for the information. Information.

Alice Menya

Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

And not for anything else. And of course it doesn't lead to a lot of opening up.

And also quantitative is now very useful because you're able to collect information you can't correct using quantitative.

Alice Menya

Exactly.

Charity Mwangi

Like including people's emotion.

Alice Menya

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should tell you there's one we used in one of our research where we, we kept people keeping dairies.

So it was a research on energy and electric cooking. Clean cooking, basically the transition. And we're keeping them, we're calling them, I think e cooking diaries or something.

And you can imagine these people are just writing, you know, their experiences in diaries and you check all the, all those diaries and when you do the analysis, it's a wealth of knowledge.

Charity Mwangi

It's a wealth of knowledge, yeah.

Alice Menya

And you see this, you, you really engage this person though not like on.

Charity Mwangi

A face to face, one on one.

Alice Menya

So this diary is personal, you know. But of course, you know, they know it's a method we're using to collect data.

But you see when someone sits down and starts writing, you know, whatever it is, you know, depending on what we had framed in those diaries, I mean it's a wealth of knowledge and in fact it's seen within some of these diaries that you actually can craft other research agenda.

Charity Mwangi

Agenda, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Alice Menya

It's really interesting by reading the diary.

Charity Mwangi

Able to reveal more opportunities.

Alice Menya

Exactly.

Charity Mwangi

That can form research agendas.

Alice Menya

Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

I love the way the methodologies are evolving over time. I also heard of one called repo effect mapping. It's like a cafe that brings youth together yeah.

And once you're discussing about issues, they're able to map out, they're able to draw their issues. So yeah, it's like a way of venting and a way of improving their mental health because we have a lot of challenges in the informal areas.

So it is a safe space for them to just improve their mental health.

Because if you're discussing say about gender based violence or even about poor access to water, you're able to showcase that through drawings because that becomes quite a safe space for them.

Alice Menya

I like that you've introduced the word safe space because I think with research and especially the data collection, data collection phase, you have to create a safe space for your respondents and the people you're engaging with for you to get high quality data. Yes, yeah.

That affects whatever it is, whether it's change or that really feeds into your findings and probably, you know, some kind of, I don't know, sometimes I feel like, you know, like seminal writings or seminal papers that have emerged from, you know, more established researchers have come from some of these, you know, engagements. Yeah. When you create a safe space, then you're highly likely to get regulation, very rich information.

Charity Mwangi

Information.

Alice Menya

Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

And of course at the same time still maintain maintaining the confidentiality.

Alice Menya

Exactly.

Charity Mwangi

Of the communities because of very important. Some of these information is very personal.

Alice Menya

Very personal. You cannot, you know, again, it boils down to research ethics. So it's really important that you conduct ethical research. Yeah, absolutely.

I agree with you.

Charity Mwangi

Now perhaps to my last question.

Alice Menya

Yeah.

Charity Mwangi

Is well, given that you are in this space and it's quite an interesting space that really attracts a lot of young and even seasoned professionals, what advice would you give to the next generation of young professionals who are looking to join the research space? What advice do you have for them?

Alice Menya

Critical thinking. Critical thinking. Do not be afraid to ask even the most ridiculous of questions. Do not be afraid to do that.

You have to be bold in your critical thinking. You have to be bold in challenging, you know, the norms or, you know, what is currently the status quo. Challenging the status quo.

I think you have to be bold in that. You have to be open to different knowledge systems. Yeah, I think that's what I'd say.

And also you have to be still insisting on interdisciplinary transdisciplinary research. Co production is the way I feel for production of knowledge.

Honestly, instead of just staying in your silo as a researcher, I think co production across the spectrum of stakeholders is the way to go.

David Ehrhardt

Thanks for listening to this episode. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you have any notes, comments or questions on this or future episodes, we'd love to hear from you.

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