This episode of How To Take The Lead is focused on motivation. As leaders we often have the role of motivating others and we wanted to take the opportunity to explore how we ourselves stay motivated in our leadership roles. Did you know that 75% of people are motivated by knowing what they don’t want? So motivation is an important part of life as a leader.

In this episode we share our thoughts, experiences and learning, including:

• 4:05 – understanding your ‘love’ language 
• 7:41 – motivation linked to your purpose and needs
• 15:03 – staying motivated when you’ve been in post for some time
• 24:10 – leadership and organisational life cycles
• 28:00 – How to ... motivate the motivator

Our top tips in this episode include working out if you are struggling with a motivation or ability issue, gaining clarity on what motivates you and ensuring you are considering your impact on others and their motivations.

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You can find out more about Lee Griffith via www.sundayskies.com and about Carrie-Ann Wade at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Get social with us via:

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Carrie-Ann on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Will I, or will I not still be engaged?

That's the question.

If I'm not you'll know, I've done my love language test and it went badly.

Welcome to this episode of how to take the lead.

First of all, I'm quite excited because I can't believe how many episodes

we are into this series already.

I'm not sure where the time is gone.

I'm excited and also slightly sad, 'cos I feel like we're coming to to

the other end of the series almost now we've passed the halfway mark Lee.

Wow.

It's gone quite quickly.

And in this episode, we are going to talk about motivation.

Before we get into the nitty gritty of it, Lee, how motivated are you feeling today?

Today right now.

Well, I'd say I started this morning at four out 10 motivation and

just wanted a big cup of tea and watch a bit of location location.

And that was all I was worthy of this morning.

Now I'd say having ticked off quite a few of my to-do list, I'm at a solid

eight out of 10 motivation, I think.

A solid 8 out of 10, I feel like that's quite a good

score on the motivation front.

Thank you for indulging me and sharing Lee.

And I'm glad your motivation has increased throughout the day as we've

headed towards recording this podcast.

And that you're not still on a four, cuz that would've been really hard

work for me to get your motivation levels up for a good podcast episode.

The reason that we are going to have a discussion about motivation is really

because obviously this whole podcast is about being a leader and leadership and

more often than not one of the roles that you play as a leader is to be the

person who motivates everybody else.

So chief motivator, somebody who's there to inspire and motivate

others to take them on a journey.

To motivate them to deliver certain things as part of your strategy.

So you have a big role, I think, as a leader to be that

motivation for other people.

But what I was really interested in spending a little bit of

time exploring is about where do leaders get their motivation from.

So if you are the leader and you are there to motivate everybody else how

do you get your motivation as a leader.

So I'm going to put you on the spot again, Lee and ask you for your thoughts.

Wow.

How do you get your motivation?

Well I think not to cop out from this question, but I almost think

it's not really, it's not limited to when you're a leader only

like I've got my leader hat on.

How am I motivated?

I do think it is closely aligned to understanding what motivates you

in life in general is probably a pretty good first starting point.

It also made me think about, have you ever done your love language test?

Er, no it sounds like something out of Cosmo magazine from

being a teenager, a love language test.

Talk to me about this Lee.

I haven't done it.

oh, I thought we were getting the big reveal then

about what your love language is.

but it seems to be something that like, I've heard loads of

people talking about in the last six to 12 months, everyone's talking

about, oh, that's my love language.

Or, so, so and so's done this and they're talking my love language and whatnot.

And so it's a test apparently that works out what five love languages,

you and your partner speak.

I'm already feeling clammy about the fact that there'll probably

be completely different ones and I'll find out that it is all gonna go wrong.

I don't wanna do this test.

But it got me thinking it is linked to motivation.

So the five tests are something like is your love language,

words, and affirmation based.

Is it by someone doing something for you?

Is it receiving a gift.

Is it that feeling of a physical touch?

So I suppose in a leadership point of view, is it a handshake high five, a hug?

Or is it being able to spend quality time doing something that matters?

So I thought that when we talk about what motivates you and how do you

find your motivation, I don't know why my mind immediately went there,

but it was that thing of if you know what your love language is, maybe

you've already done a bit of work to figure out your motivation.

I love that.

I will explore a little bit more about like where leaders get their motivation

from, but that does, helpfully lead us onto the kind of how doesn't it.

How do you work out what motivates you?

But, yeah I, I guess It's about understanding more about yourself, isn't

it as a person and how that translates then to you as a leader, because like you

say, it's not just about your leadership in terms of thinking about motivation.

And there are lots of different motivations aren't there for people.

Some people are very much financially rewarded or they feel very motivated by

status and power, which as I'm saying, all of these words make me personally

feel very icky because they are not the things that motivate me at all.

But as you say, other people more motivated about, you know, the,

the quality at which they maybe can deliver something or the

relationships that they build and the people that they spend time with.

I think there is something about having to work out where your motivations

come from as an individual and then how you can apply them in, your leadership

role and your leadership thinking.

So you've touched on it a little bit, Lee, about how do you work it out?

you've talked about doing your love language test.

So maybe it's more about your leadership language test, maybe

that's something we need to work on Lee

I think there's something already out there, which is that

Maslow hierarchy of needs, which is probably a little less Cosmo

A little less tabloid.

That is absolutely the model around a person's motivation

increases as their needs are met.

So I don't know all the hierarchy, but I know it's around basic

needs you need to have to live.

Psychological needs, so I suppose, as you say, accomplishment, security,

belonging, to maybe that self fulfillment, when you realize that

you' re having great experiences or you are growing as a leader,

Yeah, definitely.

And there, there was something for me when I was thinking about this, like,

how do you work out what motivates you?

There was lots in there for me around what brings me joy in my leadership role.

When, and where, and what are the times in my leadership life, where

I feel like I'm having a real impact.

Where are those points where I feel like I've done a really good job because,

and I guess it's really funny because when I reflect on that, I can probably

remember more of those times when I wasn't in a leadership position where I could

identify where I felt like I'd done a really good job versus the times as a

leader where I've probably felt that.

And I don't know if some of that is about what you were saying

around that feedback loop.

Like where are you getting that feedback from?

Are you motivated by people validating what you've done giving you feedback,

telling you that you've done a good job.

So I think it is really important to start to think as a leader about what

actually does motivate you and how you can define that for yourself so that you can

factor that into the way that you work.

Yeah, but I think it links back to your bigger vision and purpose, and we

all have them as individuals and we've spoken about them in past episodes.

I think once you understand that why and the big picture of what you are trying to

achieve, it can make it easier as a leader to break that down and go, right well, if

this is a step towards me achieving that, that might be my motivation for example.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I guess as we've been talking, there's been something for me as

well around you talked about like getting your needs met and how you

work through that hierarchy of need in terms of fulfillment and motivation.

And I think sometimes as a leader, it can be, I don't want to say easy,

but I think you can sometimes feel guilty about wanting to have your

personal needs met as a leader as well.

Because again, I think that ties back to like, it's your job to help everyone else

get what they need from you as a leader.

But actually sometimes you can neglect what you might need.

And I think then when you start to think about it, there'll be certain

people in leadership roles who maybe feel a bit guilty for thinking, actually

I'm not getting what I need at the moment to motivate me and energize me.

And I need to think about doing something differently to do that.

And I think sometimes it can come with that kind of that guilt or that sense

of, well I'm the leader so I don't deserve to take that time away from

other people to focus on what I need.

But I have seen the other flip side of that, where there are

leaders that think nothing of, but themselves and don't think about, where

there are ego led leaders and they absolutely are always striving in the

pursuit of their ego being boosted.

And that's what motivates them to the pursuit that they're not thinking

about the motivation of their teams.

So I do think as a leader, you've got to get that balance, right.

So a helpful tip there, I think about how you are working out,

what motivates you, you also need to be thinking about the impact you're having

on other people and how that comes across when you are thinking about that.

So, balance, I think was, a helpful word to mention there.

I also think that there is something about what motivates you might not be

what motivates other people in your team.

And I know that I'm less bothered by words, for example, I love a gift, love

spending time doing things with other people and doing things that I like.

And I'm a completer finisher.

So I absolutely love the tick of a box and that satisfaction of a job being done.

But recognizing when I was a leader that my team perhaps do

want the words don't want the gift.

Don't like finishing stuff.

So that that's part of the balance as well.

Isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think we have probably mentioned this before, around, you

know, some people respond really well to being thanked, whereas

other people don't want that because they're like, I'm just doing my job.

So like, don't keep thanking me for it.

Give me the money..

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want money.

I, yeah, I want an extra day off, you know, whatever it is or some people want,

change different projects to be part of.

So there is something as well, I guess, about working out what

motivates other people as well as what motivates you and not being so

stuck in your own motivations that you neglect the needs of other people.

So that's, a really important point that you raise there Lee.

And we have mentioned that point that some people are motivated

by validation and by gratitude.

And I guess often as a leader, you don't expect to be thanked as were

for the job that you are doing.

I think that can be natural bit of the territory as a leader that

expect to be thanked or being told that you are doing a good job.

So I'd just be interested to hear your thoughts about if that is part

of what motivates you as an individual and you are in a leadership role.

how do you manage that motivation for yourself and, how do you deal

with the fact that you might not always get the thanks and the praise

that might normally motivate you?

It's a hard one to reflect on in some ways, because that doesn't motivate me.

So I can only assume what it might feel like if you don't get that.

. What I found interesting was, I read somewhere.

It might have been when I was doing some studies a couple of years ago that 75%

of people are motivated by what they don't want rather than what they do want.

So I would say maybe the, the thing for someone who's perhaps getting that

type of feedback is to flip it the other way and think well, at least

I'm not getting negative feedback and not been told that I've done

a rubbish job or whatever . Haha..

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think you were talking before as well about how you can consider the needs

of your wider team and how that links into your motivation and their motivation.

And I think there's something for me around that sort of gratitude,

thanks piece that, like you say not quite flipping it to what you don't

want, but maybe just reframing that to be about successes and actually

creating a culture within your team and organization where you do celebrate

successes you do talk about the things that have gone really well.

And I think in some respects that can give you some of that

validation and some of that.

That thanks that you might be looking for, but through a slightly different

lens through the lens of the, you know, the wider team and the, organization.

So creating that culture where the culture isn't learning from the things

that have gone wrong, but actually sharing the great stuff that's going really well

I think can, can be a powerful tool to help motivate you if you are somebody who

probably is more motivated by validation and, and sort of thanks and gratitude.

I think you could also get that maybe if you are doing that reflection

piece, Just the process of what have I achieved in the last 90 days.

What have I achieved this month?

What have I achieved this week?

And they might be, if you seek the evidence to back up the question

that you're asking, you might find that there are opportunities you've

missed where that reward has come to you and you haven't quite picked up.

It might be the thanks that the team received for job well done and then

you reminding yourself, well, I lead that team and the team are in the

shape that they're in because of how we all working towards this vision.

If you remind yourself of the bigger picture and you've broken that down

into the small steps, each small step, you could remind yourself

we're one step closer to that.

And that sounds really cheesy, one step closer to the big vision, but

actually if you can evidence things in different ways it absolutely will

show the progress that you're making.

I guess for me, there's something as well about leaders

who have maybe been in their leadership position for some time.

So maybe you've been in your role for, for a long time.

You've been in the same organization for a while.

I think sometimes that can make it more challenging to motivate yourself because

you've kind of been, I don't wanna say stuck because there are leaders who've

been in positions for a really long time and are always highly motivated.

But I think sometimes it can impact your motivation and, and energy

levels when you have been in the same place for a long time, because it can

sometimes be harder, I guess, to get a different perspective on things.

So if I think about my own personal experience of that, I've been in my

current role and organization for coming up to six years, which is

actually a really long time for me.

I normally spend about two and a half, three years in a role, and then

I'm ready for the next challenge.

And I want to move on.

But actually the thing that's motivated me and kept me energized in, in this

organization is the amount of opportunity I've had to take on new things and

that challenge within the organization.

So I haven't had to look outside of the organization to find

that new challenge, to keep me energized and to keep me motivated.

I have actually had the opportunities to take new things on, into my

portfolio as a leader, which has.

Stretched me and given me personally development opportunities, I've been

able to get involved in different pieces of work and programs that perhaps I

normally wouldn't have been able to in, in previous roles that I've been in.

So for me, I think that's, what's kept me motivated and energized even though

like personally for me, I've been in that place for, for what feels like quite a

long time given my kind career history.

So I'm just interested to hear from you there about, you know, what are your

thoughts around how you re-energize and remotivate yourself if you've been in

the same position for quite some time?

For me, it's all about exploring and recognizing the root

of the feelings that you have.

So yes, there are gonna be mundane jobs that we all have to do, which can be

really uninspiring and demotivating.

And I know certainly, there are things that you have to do every

year you're like, oh my God, we've gotta do this thing again.

We've gotta do this report or that event, or I've gotta promote the same thing.

And it just feels like a groundhog situation, but that's life,

you just have to deal with it.

Then there's the bit around recognizing your own body and yourself.

And I know my energy and my motivation wanes at different parts of the month,

for example, linked to my cycle.

And I've got absolutely no motivation to get dressed far less thinking

about motivating other people.

So I know that, and I plan for that, I reduce my FaceTime and my

meetings with other people, and I know it's a phase and soon enough

that energy's gonna shift again.

And then the kind of third element I always think about is this a motivational

issue or is this an ability issue?

So is this something that if all the barriers were removed,

would I do something different?

And if I would still do it, then I know it's not a motivational issue,

but if all the barriers were removed and I still wouldn't take that action,

I know that it's a motivational issue.

If that makes sense?

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting take on, on looking at things,

actually motivation versus ability.

And I think the difference is the sum of all those feelings and how

long that, that carries on cuz you are always gonna have ebbs and flows of how

motivated that you feel across all those three reasons, whether it's elements

of the job you don't like, whether it's your body and tiredness and fatigue,

or just the cyclical way of things work or that ability versus motivation.

But if that feeling drags on, or perhaps you're noticing that you're feeling

super energized and motivated outside of work, but when you are in work, you

just can't summon up no matter what and nothing that you do is shifting it.

Then I think you've got big questions to ask yourself.

For me, motivation is how much do you want something?

How much do you want that job?

How much do you want to finish that project?

And so those are the types of questions that you need to start asking yourself

if you are in that position of, wow, I've been here for a long time and

I just can't get my stuff going.

And personally, I got to that point in my corporate career

where I was feeling burnt out.

It felt never ending, same conversations and the same actions when I was at work.

And then I had this really long commute that led to a really unhealthy

lifestyle, which was impacting on my energy outside of work.

So I had both areas combining and there wasn't enough of a bigger picture

motivation for me to keep going.

And it got to a point where I knew I was doing a disservice to other people,

to my teams, and more importantly to the people that we were serving

in my organization, but I knew the only option for me was to walk away.

And I think that's a really high level of insight, isn't

it, to have in terms of where you are at in that particular role.

I think kudos to you for having that level of insight for doing that reflection

piece, because I think you do come across people who probably in the backs of their

mind do know that that is where they're at, but they will just keep plodding

on and plodding on for all different, motivations, ironically, for them to keep

doing that, you need to pay my mortgage.

Don't gonna be good enough to get another job somewhere else.

Don't know what I want to do.

But I think it is really powerful and really insightful for you to share

your, your own personal experience and

journey around that, which I know you've done previously as well, because

I think it helps people to do that reflection piece for themselves and, and

really start to think about am I doing something that matters and motivates me?

And I think the selfless part of what you've described is the bit

around saying but I was not only doing a disservice to myself.

I was doing a disservice to other people because actually people weren't

getting the best version of me leader.

I go back to my, bigger picture why, the reason that I was working in

and doing the job I did, because I was absolutely passionate about improving you

People's lives in a really cheesy way.

But that was really important to me and I, felt that my team had a really

important role to get the user's voices heard to make sure that they were

involved in stuff that was happening in the organization and all that.

So if I looked at it in, in a broad way, there should have been

enough motivation in the bigger picture for me to keep going.

But there just wasn't because I was ground down with all those

little things that were adding up for me and it just didn't feel like

I would ever get the balance right to, to feel like I was achieving

that bigger picture that I wanted.

And so I knew I had to step away and find it a different way.

Doesn't mean my, bigger pictures changed, I'm tackling

it from a different direction.

And I think that's really interesting as well to

to think about it that way.

And it's something we say probably nearly every episode how take the lead

around knowing your, why what's your purpose, knowing that bigger picture is a

really important part of being a leader.

So I think you've hugely demonstrated that in your experience

in your journey so far Lee.

So you mentioned the ebbs and flows of your working life as a leader,

and the fact that you are gonna have bits of your job, that don't always

set you on fire, and they're not the things that you enjoy doing.

I think also as a leader you might find yourself in a position where you are

leading your team or your organization through potentially a really difficult

time potentially a difficult time that's not gonna be over very quickly.

It might be some sort of crisis situation I guess the pandemic has been a really

good example of people having to lead through a really challenging and

kind of longstanding, period of time.

and I guess in those times it can be really hard to find your joy

and your motivation in what you do.

So have you got any tips for people around how they can approach

being in that sort of space?

Well, my only caveat would be, unless you are a person where

challenge is super motivating, in which case you'd be thriving in that

situation you've just described.

I don't think you can put motivation perhaps in a single box because it does

mean something different to everyone.

Absolutely.

And right back to that working out, what motivates you and how you get motivated

is a really important part of that.

And I always think about that when I think about communicators and

my profession, there's always bits of it that I don't find motivating,

but yet that the bits that I don't like doing, there's always someone

in your team that loves doing them.

And for me, it's the media stuff.

It's not my bag.

I don't thrive on the challenge of uh, media inquiries and

dealing with journalists.

I can do it, but it's not what brings me joy.

It's not what motivates me.

I have know people who like, that's their total gives them such

a buzz and does motivate them.

So you are absolutely right.

And to slightly go off, topic, but it links to, to the previous points we

were discussing from a leadership point of view, knowing your strengths and

the types of situations in which you lead is really beneficial and there

are life cycles of organizations.

So there will be times when, there might be a new and emerging organization.

It might be a challenging organization.

It might be organization in growth.

You might need someone that's the rah-rah cheerleader.

You might need someone who comes in is really focused on turnaround and as a

leader you, you need to match yourself to those types of organizations that are in

the right life cycle for your leadership, strengths and skills that you bring.

And I do think that that is linked to motivation.

So if someone who just doesn't thrive in a difficult and challenging

environment, and it's a pretty consistent firefighting type job, then that's

maybe the opportunity that you step away and you go to somewhere where you

can be the cheerleader or vice versa.

I didn't actually answer your question though.

I'm sorry.

You didn't.

You were being very political about that.

You're like a politician there away from the question.

I have got a good answer.

Come on, then sock it to us.

What is the answer to the question Lee?

Well, I think if you are in that position where, so I'm

gonna reword your question.

So rather than when you are in a challenging time, because we've

established, that might mean you thrive.

But I think if you are in a position where you're doing something, that is

the opposite of what motivates you, then that can be what's super hard.

But if I flip back to a previous point that for 80% of the time you're doing

I dunno, whatever your percentage that you think is a good percentage,

you're not gonna have a hundred percent job where you feel fully motivated.

You're in, you know, you're off in Disney if that's if that's what you think.

When I've had really say tricky and sensitive issues to deal with, for me,

that perhaps felt hard to deal with.

And I was thinking, oh, this is the last thing I want to handle at the moment.

I can't lean into the things that I really, really like.

What I've had to do is go back to remember my why.

Remind myself it's only for a time and then find different

ways to replenish my reserves.

So.

It might be, I had to make best use of my network call in for people who

perhaps could make me laugh and bring a bit of like relief when it's a really

difficult day or people who can gimme a bit of counsel and a different viewpoint

or someone that I can just offload and talk about what a twat so and so was.

When I was at home, it was about making sure that I'm doing nice things,

eating nice things, switching off.

I had to try and find motivation in different ways, but absolutely

link back to everything's only for a time . So that was, key to me.

And

I think the other motivator for me always is as a, as a completer

finisher is remembering the end point.

So what's the difference gonna be?

Or what's it gonna mean if I finish X or what will it mean once we get through Y?

And those were questions that I would ask myself along the way to just

chunk it up and not feel like there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

I love that it's only for a time, I think is a really good way to

think about that when you are faced with those, maybe like you say, the things

that maybe challenge your motivation More than, than you'd perhaps like, or expect.

I have to say I was slightly distracted through the answer to your question

there, Lee cuz in the back of my head, I was thinking, I wonder how motivated

Mickey mouse is and whether he has periods of time, where he just can't

find the motivation to be totally Mickey.

I'm also very pleased that you shared some of what motivates you and how you've

managed to find a way through those

You mean you're pleased I actually answered the question.

so I think it leads us on to that point in the episode, which we

do every every episode are just around sharing some quick how tos, which are

a bit of a summary of some of our top tips and things that we've talked about.

So, Lee top tip and a how to, or more than one, if you want

around, how you can think about and stay motivated as a leader.

Going Back to your bigger picture why so making sure you're always

doing that check in and reflection is, is a really important one.

And I think that piece for me about is it a motivational or an ability issue

that, that you are struggling with and trying to get to the root cause?

Mm.

Absolutely.

And I think, both of those will be helpful in the bit for me, which is around.

Do you actually really understand what it is that motivates you?

Um, Seeking that clarity, I guess, on what brings you motivation and,

what can help to energize you, I think is, is really important.

And I would add in a top tip, having listened to what you've said, Lee,

about just considering the impact on others and just recognizing that

what motivates you might not always be what motivates everybody else.

And we are, are obviously talking about this as a leader.

So you do have to recognize that impact and think about how you

strike that balance for other people.

So, so

yeah.

You're gonna be going off and do your love language test

My love language test.

Well, I don't know.

I'm intrigued to know what it is, but I'm also partly fearful in case my love

language is something that, yeah, I dunno.

I dunno.

What's gonna happen next episode.

Will I, or will I not still be engaged?

That's the question.

If I'm not you'll know, I've done my love language test and it went badly.

I'm not sure how motivated I feel to take the test.

I feel just slightly scared about it, Lee, but, yeah, interested to hear from others

if they know what their love language is.

brilliant.

Thank you so much as always for listening to this episode and look forward