Episode Summary: In this episode of CarbonSessions, we chat with Patrick Jackson, the creative mind behind “Picker Pals,” an innovative environmental program for children. Patrick shares his journey from creating educational materials to becoming an environmental advocate.  

Patrick discusses the Picker Pals initiative, which engages children in litter-picking activities through a compelling mix of storytelling, practical activities, and classroom tools. With Picker Pals now active in 70% of primary schools in Ireland and expanding globally, Patrick emphasizes the importance of empowering children and communities to take action against environmental degradation. 

Listen to this episode to learn about: 

• The origins and impact of Patrick’s eye-catching “cloak of debris” 
• How Picker Pals integrates environmental education with hands-on activities 
• The challenges and successes in spreading the Picker Pals program across different countries 
• Patrick’s creative approach to engaging children in environmental stewardship through storytelling and interactive learning 
• Expanding Picker Pals to schools and communities worldwide 
• Insights into Patrick's creative process and future plans for the program 

Connect with Patrick:  

Picker Pals Website 

Picker Pals on Instagram 

Patrick Jackson on LinkedIn 

Watch Patrick in Action   

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Jenn Swanson, Tania Marien, Kristina Horning and Barbara Orsi.  

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert, and podcaster from Paris, France.  

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer, and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

From Riverside, California, Tania is an independent environmental education professional and hosts and produces The Talaterra Podcast.   

Kristina has a background in architecture and engineering. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US. 

Based in Milan, Italy, Barbara is a mom and marketing executive who has been actively involved in building a better and brighter future for our planet since November 2021. She has contributed to the Carbon Almanac and serves as the Italian coordinator for the Carbon Almanac Network. During fall 2023, she co-founded Generation Carbon Italy, the Italian spin-off of the Carbon Almanac Network  

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For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org 

Want to join in the conversation? 

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives. 

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up! 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater. 

Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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A podcast with Carbon Conversations,

for every day, with everyone,

9

from everywhere in the world.

10

In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

11

can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions, because it's not too late.

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I'm

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Liki.

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Hi, I'm Patrick.

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Hi, I'm Tonya.

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Hi, I'm Christina.

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Hi, I'm Jan.

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Today, we have a guest that I have met

a couple of months ago at Change Now.

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And, um, I didn't talk to

him directly because he was

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busy talking to other people.

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Everybody wanted to talk to him

because he was wearing this very,

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very, very interesting jacket.

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And the crown.

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And so maybe we can start off with

this, Patrick, and tell us what you

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were wearing at Change Now and, and why?

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Well, firstly, I'd love to say thank

you for having me on your podcast.

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This is extremely exciting

to have a chance to talk to

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people that's so far away.

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Normally, I'm talking to kids

in a classroom and they're right

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like on Did that right there.

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So this is brilliant.

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Um, so the cloak, uh, as I call

it, uh, is, uh, here behind me.

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Uh, can you see it?

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Um, and it's a garment which I made

from, sad story really, because it's

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made from all the pieces of debris

that I found on the beach near my home,

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um, over the last five or six years.

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You're home in Ireland.

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In Ireland.

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I live in Dublin.

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I live in the north side of Dublin.

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And, um, I go and pick, I, I

litter pick a lot, uh, on my beach.

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And I find a lot of bottles and cans,

bottle tops, um, bits of fishing

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gear, fishing net, uh, plastics of

all sorts broken down into various

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size pieces, um, a lot of wet

wipes that come out of the river.

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Um, and so generally speaking, the

things I find are kind of gross.

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And then occasionally I find

something that's curious.

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So, you know, maybe an old doll's head,

or, you know, there's everything here.

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Um, you know, some colorful things,

strange things, things I'm not quite sure

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what they are, pieces of Lego, um, and

90, I'd say 90 percent of them, yeah,

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99 percent of them probably, there's

about a thousand pieces now on it, um,

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and they're mostly made of plastic.

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So it's a dramatic way of showing

people Um, and interacting with the

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issue in a very, uh, well, in a very

physical way, uh, and literally when

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you put the cloak on people, which

is what I, you know, people, people

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wear it when I visit a classroom.

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I often put it on the

teacher or on the children.

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Um, and then we have a ceremony.

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We have the crown, um, which,

uh, which, which goes with it.

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Yeah.

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Um, and.

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So I'm not completely crazy.

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There is a method to my madness, but, um,

so this ceremony we, we do, um, it, it's

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kind of fun, but it really brings it home

to, to the people, um, whoever they are.

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And, and in Change Now, I, I was

really surprised and happy that

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this had a similar effect to

a whole bunch of other things.

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seven year olds, um, even

though they were all grown up.

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So it was, you know, it

just kind of happened.

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I started it, but I started, what

happened was I started by bringing

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these interesting pieces to classrooms.

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Because they were all separate everyone

would just take pieces and it was

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too difficult to actually control it

So by putting them onto this cloak

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it It became an easy way to display

it and then actually it's turned

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into a bit of a art piece So I've

exhibited it in the gallery and so on.

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So it's, it's, it's just the way

my life turned out, uh, I guess,

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and, and I have met other cloak

owners, uh, and, and such people.

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There is a small niche community

of coat and cloak wearers, you

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know, including bishops and kings,

popes, um, and, and other lunatics.

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Um, so yeah, it's a thing.

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And funnily enough, the.

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You know, you understand, because

when you put on the cloak,

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it completely changes you.

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Uh, and people put it on,

and they become different.

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You know, their inhibitions disappear,

and they become, you know, they

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have to stand up straight, and,

uh, they, It's very noisy as well.

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The cloak is noisy.

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So if you jump up and down,

you just stop any room.

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You know, everyone's like, who is that?

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What's that?

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You know?

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So yeah, it's worked

as a awareness raising.

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But maybe you can tell us what you

do in classrooms because this is

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where we were supposed to start with.

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But, uh.

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But then here we go.

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Okay.

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You mean, why am I allowed

into classrooms at all?

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I, I know what you're saying.

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Okay.

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I, I get it.

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Um,

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well, let me rewind a little bit.

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Um, so in my life, when I

was a normal, human being.

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Um, I was, uh, an author of educational

materials for primary school children.

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So I, I lived in Japan.

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I moved to Japan and, uh, lived there

for a long time teaching English.

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And then I started writing storybooks and

exercise books for kids to learn English.

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And that became my career.

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And my books are actually published

by Oxford University Press.

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And that was, I was spent many years,

um, doing that as, uh, for my living.

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Um, and I still do, actually.

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Uh, although my new kind of role

has kind of taken over with the

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When I became a litter picker.

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So then I thought, okay, is there a way

of, I became inspired of litter picking,

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is there a way of connecting my two, um,

things, you know, my, my career as it

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was with, with inspiring children to.

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Actually go out and clean litter.

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So I came up with this, uh, program,

which is called Pick Up pals.

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And, um, pick Up PALS is an environmental

program for six to nine year olds.

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And it, the idea is that we motivate them

to actually go out with their families

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and, uh, do actions in their local areas.

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And what we have, so we

have, uh, let me show you.

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This is a pack, which.

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Um, goes into the classroom and in

the pack there is all the kit you

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need for a litter picking adventure.

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So there's an adult and a child tool, you

know, picker upper, uh, vests, gloves,

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safety information, and all that stuff.

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And so the teacher holds that up

and says, Okay, who wants to bring,

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you know, they introduce it and

they're, Who wants to bring this home?

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Who wants to?

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And everyone goes nuts.

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Um, you know, all the children

want to be that person.

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Um, and so picker pals works

very well because there's

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only one pack in the class.

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And it works that each week,

a different child takes it

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home and goes to their class.

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And then they lead their family

on a litter picking adventure.

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So that's been a great hit.

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It's people love it.

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And it's now in 70 percent of

the primary schools in Ireland.

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So the other aspect of it is

the education, you know, the

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kind of environmental education.

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And we like to do that

through a a story world.

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So there's a, there's the, the world

of the picker pals who live on a

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flying island and somewhat like,

you know, Jonathan Swift inspired

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and they travel around and they

come down and then they do actions.

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Uh, you know, they find the places being

littered and they do things and there's,

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there's a whole bunch of characters.

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So now we have about 50, uh,

different pick a pal characters.

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So if you want to be a character,

you can just send me whatever animal

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you would like, DK, and you will

be created in pick a pal form.

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Um, and yeah, so the kids identify

very strongly with the kids

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really get into the characters.

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And we have Craig, who's a crab,

and he goes around with me.

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He visits, I'm showing you

this lovely little puppet, yes.

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He comes around and he visits the schools.

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And we also have a syllabus of

pillars of different, um, Not just

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litter picking, so it's, you know, we

have nine pillars of Picapel's, uh,

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you know, kind of curriculum about

recycling or leave no trace in the

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places you are and that kind of thing.

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And then we have storybooks.

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So, um, this is a new book, Junk in the

Jungle, about the characters Kai and Wai,

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who go off to the jungle and then they

save the day, they do some upcycling,

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and we have Picker Power, which is about

a crab and lobster who go to the beach,

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and they, um, Uh, no surprises really,

the stories are kind of, yeah, uh, they

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find lots of litter and they save the

day, um, and then we have, yeah, we

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have another book about, uh, a seagull

which is trapped in, uh, seagull which

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is trapped in, in, um, fishing line.

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And really that's actually

what happened in real life.

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So that this book is

called Flip Flap Flop Fly.

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Is it?

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Flip Flop Flap Fly.

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And it's about me, finally, I became

a character in Pick Up Out, so I'm,

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this is the rhinoceros called Patrick.

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And, and he meets a seagull, and so,

yeah, we, we, when I visit the kids

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I tell them I freed this seagull,

and the seagull pecked me really

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hard on the finger, which is true.

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And then told me to do

something about the litter

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and they believe it and I kind of

believe it myself now actually.

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You tell the story enough times, you know.

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So I see everyone with a big

smile and everyone is in awe.

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So maybe, you know, someone wants

to chime in and ask a question.

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Please.

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Yeah.

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I'm curious when, uh, how long ago did

you start it and did you start it in Japan

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also or, uh, did you start it in Ireland?

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I, I moved back to Ireland in about

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the odd sort of beach clean with

friends and so on, but the pick

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up house really goes back to 2019.

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Um, and then that was just in one school.

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So the, the story I like to tell

kids is that this started with one

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school, the school down the road.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And then we asked, uh, a local business,

would you give us enough money to

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make ten schools worth of this stuff

and we can deliver it to ten schools.

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And then we went to the local council

and they gave us another ten schools.

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And then we went to four other

local councils and they gave

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us, so we got to two hundred.

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And then we went to the government

and they gave us, they said, will

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you do a thousand classrooms?

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So it's this, this, um, asking, I mean,

I, I just say to the kids, when I go

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visit schools, you know, if I say one

thing that you remember that might

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change your life, ask for stuff, because

people want to help if you have an idea.

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Oh, that's beautiful.

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That's wonderful.

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And have you followed anybody from

the kids that they continue to work?

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Um, yes, they all work in waste

management for the local council now.

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It's an amazing resource.

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They're only like 11, but you

know, um, but actually, no, the

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first, this is something that we

really want to do because we have

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tons of like, uh, what's this?

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Uh, qualitative.

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uh, evidence of this work, you know,

it's great and we picked up loads of

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literature and stuff um, and lots of

anecdotal evidence, but we really,

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really want to um, do a quantitative

study, which would, show us that, you

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know, because we've now, I think there's

something like 250, 000 people have done

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this over the last four or five, well,

really mainly over the last three years.

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Um, so cause each classroom is that each

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and there's 25 kids and then they all

go home and that's another 25 adults.

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And then there's another siblings and

we don't count dogs or, or parrots, but

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we, uh, we reckon we've put, we're up

to nearly a quarter of a million actions

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by people who probably mostly probably

mightn't have done it, uh, if they hadn't

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had the equipment and the motivation.

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So, um, I think it's, the thing I like

about it is that I didn't have to go

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out litter picking 250, 000 times.

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That's amazing.

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That's amazing.

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Well, it's, it's system.

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I think Japan had a lot to play in

it because that kind of systemized

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thinking, I think I probably picked

up, um, from, from that, from there,

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from working in, in a Japanese junior

high school for eight years, uh, it's

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the kind of thing, it's, it's quite a

Japanese kind of idea, I think, in a way.

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That's a collaborative.

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And not littering is also

a very Japanese thing.

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Yes.

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Yes, it is.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So Patrick, you're not doing this alone.

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How did you get into 200 schools?

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Like, like who, what, how do you, I

assume you have a team or you've got

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people helping or how does it work?

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I figured that this was sort

of an idea that might work.

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So I thought, how am I

going to replicate this?

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And one of the Ideas was to start an NGO

or a non profit or something like that.

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And then I looked into that and that's

a total Complete pain in the neck,

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uh, especially for someone like me.

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So I'm very admin adverse, so I thought,

okay, there are lots of NGOs and

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organizations doing great work already.

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So I partnered, so I started a publishing.

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I, I consider pickup house in

a way, a bit like a textbook, a

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coursebook or something in that.

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It's a, it's a educational product for

schools that extends into families.

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Um, so I started a publishing

company and then I partner with.

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NGOs in different places.

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So in Ireland, I've partnered with an NGO

called Voice Ireland, who is the voice

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of Irish concern for the environment.

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Now they fundraise, they admin,

they employ a couple of people to

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administer the program in Ireland.

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And then I produce the actual content

and the, um, the materials and I get the

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bags made and I, Get the books printed

and the whole thing and I deliver it

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all and then we're replicating that in

the UK now We have a partner in London.

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So we're starting in London We have a

partner in Portugal and we look like

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we're about to start it up in France.

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So We're we're we're actively now because

we kind of know what we're doing Well, we,

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we, we do know what we're doing, uh, and

we're actually now looking for partners

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in other places that might be interested

to, to be PikaPals enabling partners.

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We call them Pupeps.

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Hi, Patrick.

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I'm, I'm Tonya.

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Hi.

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How, what does a partnership look like?

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How does that conversation begin?

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Well, it usually, well, so our experience

so far, uh, in Ireland, if I go back

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to Ireland, it started, I went to the

supermarket and in the vegetable section,

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there was somebody I knew from the area

who was, is a, uh, an environmentalist.

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And she was called Mindy O'Brien.

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Actually, she's from,

she's from the States.

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And she's, she was one of the people

who founded this organization Voice.

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And I said, Mindy, listen,

I've got this thing.

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Do you, is there any way

you'd be interested to?

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Um, take it on because I, you know,

I want to concentrate on, on telling

284

stories and wearing my cloak and she

said, yes, we could, we'd be interested.

285

So that was how the first one

was near the broccoli section.

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Um, the second organization

we did a sort of a recruit.

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We did a outreach to organizations

in Portugal, and we ended up with an

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organization called Brigada do Mar.

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Who.

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are a sort of quite activist

beach cleaning, uh, organization.

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So they had took it on in Portugal.

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Then in London, it's, I mean, you

reach out and people, you know, usually

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the big organizations treat you like

dirt and you're nobody, and you know,

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we don't have time to talk to you.

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And then smaller, smaller

organizations are really nice.

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So, um, I think there is, there's a

sweet spot where, where an organization

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is big enough to do it properly.

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Not too big to be too bureaucratic and

not too small to sort of not really be

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able to I mean the key really Actually

without being sounding mercenary is

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in order to roll out the program to

as many classrooms as possible They

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have to be able to fundraise I mean

they have to have connections that we

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can put get us in the room to show the

program to people who can actually Give

303

the funds to the people To pay for it.

304

Um, so does that, is that sort

of what you were wondering?

305

Yeah, yeah.

306

And I was, I was also wondering about how

to get into the different school systems.

307

What differences have you encountered?

308

Well, we haven't very wide experience,

so in Ireland it's really easy.

309

Because Irish people generally are like,

well it's free for a start to the schools.

310

So the first thing you bring them up

and you know, we we we employed five

311

or six people and they worked for seven

weeks And then we called every school

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in ireland And you ring up and say hey,

we've got this new program and it's

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funded and you've been funded by x And

would you like to do it and they go?

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Yeah, usually Um, so that's in ireland, uh

in the uk We've we've only got 14 schools

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at the moment in london, but we're hoping

to do 300 this coming school year So we'll

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find out You know, what the response is.

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In Portugal, we had a landing

page with a form to teach.

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We sent it around and about and teachers

could fill in if they were interested.

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We've always had more wanting to do it

than we've had the funding to give them.

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I mean, even in Ireland, when we have

321

So we've been a bit oversubscribed.

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So once you've got someone in a given

country that is interested, then you

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do the translation of all the material.

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Well, we have so far

translated the material.

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We've only, we've translated the actual

books, uh, into Irish and English.

326

Uh, they're in, they were

written first in English.

327

Now we're in the process of doing

them in French, um, in Portugal.

328

They're running it in the

schools as a kind of an English.

329

program.

330

Um, so one of the things, and partly

with my background in language education,

331

uh, I, I envisage part of Pickle Pals

in the future being a way for people

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to talk English to kids around the

world to communicate with each other.

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Um, and actually it could be a really

good way to, to practice their English

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because there's every primary school

child in the world pretty much is, is

335

being, having English taught to them.

336

Um, so this could be a sort of a useful.

337

a way to actually really

use their English.

338

Now in the future, probably in about 20

minutes, it'll probably all be AI anyway.

339

So we'll all be, you know, we won't have

to bother learning, but the communication

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around the shared goal of making your

world in your neighborhood better,

341

we have these live meetups where we.

342

invite the classrooms to join

us and we have like a hundred

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classrooms on a zoom call.

344

So you're talking to 2, 500 children at

the same time and they do like quizzes.

345

Um, we, we mute them, you know.

346

But every so often we go, Hey,

do you want to say something?

347

And then you unmute them and it's like

348

So we do these and those are, um, those

are a really cool part of the program.

349

They're fun.

350

And, but we're doing our

first international one.

351

So we're going to do one next week

with kids from London, Portugal

352

and Ireland, uh, together.

353

So in the future, hopefully if we continue

to, to go well, we'll have these meetups.

354

I mean, can you imagine having a

hundred classrooms, but they're

355

all in different countries.

356

Um, So that's our, uh, vision.

357

Barbara had a question.

358

Do you want to jump in?

359

Hi, Barbara, I'm from Italy.

360

So fascinated by your work,

Patrick, really, really fascinating.

361

It's, it's incredible.

362

Um, and the way you spread, uh, uh,

around different countries as here in

363

Italy, we were trying to do more or

less the same with generation carbon.

364

We enrolled, uh, 1000, 1000

classes around 300 schools.

365

And this is our.

366

first results from the first year.

367

And so I'm struggling a little

bit, you know, both figuring out

368

how to continue the project and

how to solve any, any issues.

369

So I'm really, really curious about, uh,

what were, what was the main challenge

370

you faced so far and the difficulties,

the difficulties you encountered at

371

the very beginning because I don't

think it's so easy, you know, putting

372

up together an approach like that.

373

Um, I think the biggest, let me

think, the biggest challenge we've

374

had so far, um, I think there are

so many aspects of the program.

375

Um, you know, there is, there's the,

there's the sort of the, the story

376

world, there's the real community of the

actual kids doing the program, there's

377

the the whole publishing side of it.

378

There's the fundraising side of it,

and the relationships with fundraisers.

379

So, so actually the, the challenge

is, You know, and I wake up at 4.

380

30 every morning, and my head

is just full of pick a pals, and

381

pick a pals stuff, and stuff.

382

So, really, actually, the challenge

is kind of not, is knowing what

383

to actually prioritize, and

what really I should be doing.

384

So, managing that sort of, um, you know,

that, that, the fact that there are

385

a lot of things going on is, um, For

somebody like me, it's quite challenging.

386

Um, Uh, I think the teachers find it

very easy to administer the program.

387

I mean, the tea the program is super

easy to administer because they

388

don't really have to do very much.

389

In fact, we kind of give teachers

a break and we give them something

390

that they can use to Connect

with the families of the kids.

391

So everybody the feedback we get from

classrooms is really positive They all

392

want to do it every year and they will

want to tell their friends and stuff.

393

So that's um That's fine.

394

I'm not, uh, yeah, the program kind

of works just really runs very nicely.

395

And so adding new things on deciding

what we're going to add on deciding,

396

you know, I mean, I've got the teacher's

guide here and I'm looking at it and I'm

397

thinking it's two and a half years old

now, should I do a whole new version?

398

Should we refresh the whole thing?

399

And so, I mean, every page, and

I could be better, you know,

400

that we could take that out.

401

We could use that, that sort of.

402

Prioritization of what should I really,

what should I be doing actually?

403

Uh, you know, to.

404

Because it is a, um, it's

certainly in my lifetime.

405

It's a, it's a unique experience for me.

406

Uh, to have this experience of, of,

uh, of, of something really taking off.

407

Um, so handling, uh, that sounds

like real, you know, what's your,

408

you know, what's your worst quality?

409

Oh, my humility is my worst quality.

410

Um, but actually, yeah, um, having

had like hundreds of really bad

411

ideas all my life, and then actually

stumbling onto a good one that's

412

taken off is, is kind of weird.

413

So yeah, your, your help appreciated.

414

Maybe there's some way we can collaborate

with, um, with you guys in Italy.

415

I mean, it sounds like it sounds

like we should be working together.

416

Well, definitely.

417

That would be, you know, I think

that would be so, so great.

418

Actually, uh, I consider my program

myself quite, you know, at the very

419

beginning, um, we are quite humble.

420

Uh, although, uh, when I speak

to other people, you know, they,

421

they open up their eyes and say,

Oh, wow, this is a big result.

422

But I, you know, it's Probably

I don't really understand

423

truly the power of our project.

424

So, uh, we're trying to

understand how to move forward.

425

Uh, we are quite lucky enough that we've

found a partner, uh, that he's helping

426

us because one part for sure, as you

mentioned, is the fundraising part.

427

Because, uh, the interest in the

program is, is very high because there

428

is a lack of knowledge related to

climate change or to sustainability,

429

especially at the very, uh, early

stage at school, as you mentioned.

430

So our program, I think that, uh, can

confirm, can be very, very, um, you know,

431

synergy because of the fact that, uh,

also we are focused on primary schools.

432

Lovely.

433

Well, maybe we can,

maybe we can invite you.

434

It would be so beautiful.

435

Yeah, absolutely.

436

We can invite you to join some

of our international meetups.

437

Oh, yeah.

438

Yeah, it would be brilliant.

439

Yeah.

440

And actually, we also thought about

the chance to give the opportunity to

441

all the classes in different cities.

442

Because we, we run the program

throughout the, throughout Italy.

443

And so we also were chatting

about the possibility to, uh,

444

make, uh, um, people meet somehow.

445

And your, your idea is brilliant.

446

The Zoom call, uh, in order to have, uh,

you know, a chat and see, because this is

447

something that I usually tell, uh, the,

the kids when I, I have the workshop,

448

I say, okay, you are, you're not alone.

449

You're not alone.

450

This program is widespread and you're

doing this project together with, and you

451

see kids face and they are so, so, you

know, so happy, you know, to work together

452

towards something bigger than themselves.

453

Absolutely, and the coronavirus, the

pandemic, Um, was the reason we started

454

the first, our first real year was

the Corona, the beginning of Corona.

455

And, um, so the original idea was I

would go around every, you know, it

456

would be a small scale thing in the

local area and I would go to every

457

classroom and do presentations.

458

And that was it, you know, And then

because of coronavirus, we thought we

459

have to deliver this program remotely.

460

And then I set up in my mother's

spare room, a little sort of studio,

461

like everybody, I guess, like we all

did, we all bought a green screen.

462

And so that's how that started.

463

But that's actually turned

into, I think, one of the most

464

exciting parts of the program.

465

And teachers really like we do.

466

Do you know Kahoot?

467

Kahoot is a it's an app that you can do a

quiz on so We present slides and we have

468

some chat and we get kids to ask questions

But we also have a kahoot quiz which is

469

they're all the part The classrooms can

participate and then they you see it on

470

a leaderboard that comes up and they're

very they go really They get very excited.

471

So that aspect I think, uh technology

It's you know, I think it's really

472

important for us to show good uses of

technology All right You know, and,

473

and things that, uh, sort of, yeah, and

teachers get a break while we take over.

474

Your, um, YouTube channel, did that start

at the beginning or was that added on?

475

Um, no, the YouTube started very

early on, um, and we call it

476

Pick Up Al's TV, but really it's

kind of, well, that started, um,

477

Yeah, with the pick a pal song,

which is a very, uh, catchy.

478

I don't know.

479

Annoying?

480

You can listen to it, you can decide.

481

And so it started with that, and

then we started doing other things.

482

So we've, then we did some little

interviews with litter, and then

483

we did some puppet stuff, and then

we did, then we started doing out

484

and about with the pick a pal.

485

So we'd visit somewhere, you know, we'd

visit somewhere like a Place with animals

486

or place where they pick up litter or

recycling place or that kind of thing

487

And then now we have the pick up hours

TV club, which is in the local school

488

So every week I have a group of nine

kids who get together and we do it kind

489

of they will they're all Super outgoing

children who want to be reporters and

490

we do pieces with them and they do the

Picker Pals TV news and they actually I'm

491

ashamed about the carbon aspect of this

but we went to we took them to London And

492

they did reporting on Picker Pals, you

know on London and and that kind of Uh,

493

because I want, I, I, you know, again, I'd

like to have the sort of Sesame Street,

494

you know, with kids, real kids, puppets,

and, you know, that's my inspiration.

495

Except it was, it's a very, very

bad, small Sesame Street with,

496

well, with, with one puppet.

497

Yeah.

498

But the future is golden Pickle Pals TV.

499

Funnily enough, actually, one of

our sponsors is Sky, and they have

500

invited us to use their studios to

do filming for Pickle Pals TV, which

501

is, like, so, you know, that's the

sort of thing that's been happening.

502

From asking.

503

It's incredible, um, you know,

because sometimes you think that

504

it's so impossible, you know, to

obtain, uh, you know, a sort of,

505

uh, partnership or whatever, but

sometimes it's quite simply just ask.

506

This is what I'm learning.

507

I think if you have something

that's clear for them to see that

508

they know what they're guessing.

509

Uh, then, you know, it's, if it's

very, you've got to present it, I

510

think, you know, in a way, you have

a brand, they have a brand, and

511

anything they do with you is important.

512

About them collaborating with your

brand and that's um, I think I didn't

513

understand that really at the very

beginning and I Actually, my best friend

514

is now working with me and he's comes

from a design and messaging sort of

515

background and he's Revitalized all our

stuff and it makes it look really smart.

516

And so when we turn up Places, you

know, we everything looks beautiful

517

the presentations and that's I

think that's really important.

518

Um, You Because they, then they, you

know, apart from anything else, it looks

519

like you're bigger or better or, you

know, then you might be, I'm thinking,

520

you know, asking ahead, so, so, you know.

521

As I said, you know, we have PikaPals TV.

522

Sounds like it's a TV

station, but it's a phone.

523

Uh, so it's not really lying.

524

It's kind of embellishing the truth.

525

Do you use social media,

uh, besides YouTube?

526

The Very badly.

527

Uh, yes.

528

And in fact, YouTube very badly too.

529

So, this is one area that I really This

is my wish for Next the next year is

530

that we actually get our act together

on the social media side because I

531

think we have We have a very good story

and we have had an incredible time.

532

And we also have a lot of lovely content

and a lot of great user generated

533

content coming in all the time.

534

So it could be in the right hands.

535

It would be a very nice social

media piece, but again, that will

536

feed into how we spread, uh, you

know, how we grow, because we

537

did start just, you know, out of.

538

Nothing.

539

It does, you know, people say you should

get someone and then you look at, you

540

know, it's kind of, it's whether you

put the cart before the horse and invest

541

in somebody to do that properly or,

or whether you get your kids to do it.

542

Or kids that went through your

program instead of being, uh, instead

543

of working in, um, in the garbage,

544

they could work on social media.

545

Yeah.

546

This is a brilliant idea.

547

Thank you.

548

Thank you.

549

Yes.

550

But yeah, it's sort of all the pieces that

you know, it's like life really, isn't it?

551

Do you have a vision for PicoPals

in like, I don't know, 10, 15 years?

552

When we started, it's always been,

the vision has, you know, it was, it

553

was that sort of, was it Steve Jobs or

one of those, you know, it was like a

554

desk, a computer on every desk in the

world, you know, that sort of, it was

555

like a picker pack in every classroom,

until there is no world without litter.

556

Um, and, um, you know, a generation

of children who would never would

557

never litter and who are aware

and proud of their neighborhoods

558

and proud to look after them.

559

And, and so that's, that is our vision.

560

And our vision is to do

something that's, that's global.

561

So, you know, we're trying to spread

out now, , within the constraints

562

of, of all the constraints

that there are, that we are.

563

Uh, we, we, we, we are keen to spread

out to all places and I think we have

564

the proof that it works now and I think,

you know, I think we're in, you know,

565

we, we, it could happen at the beginning.

566

It was just some words, but actually I

believe now that I think it's not that

567

beyond the realms of possibility that

pick up house could be a very large

568

global thing in, in hundreds of people.

569

Countries even.

570

I don't know how many countries there

are, but you know, good for you.

571

But then we do need partnerships.

572

I mean, the thing I do know is

it's all about partnerships.

573

It's about, it's about making

partnerships with people who can,

574

you know, whether that be, whether

that be, you know, a corporate

575

situation or, you know, other NGOs,

governments, all sorts of partnerships.

576

And that's where the fun is as

well, when other people take over

577

some part of it and do things that

you didn't know about or expect.

578

Do teachers, um, report that the

environment in the classroom changes

579

after you put in the program?

580

That's a very interesting question

that I have never considered, and

581

I haven't heard a teacher say that.

582

Um, we have heard parents saying quite a

lot that the children, they are observing

583

a big change in their environment.

584

Attitudes at home and sometimes even

parents saying that the children

585

are becoming quite tiresome You know

taking, you know, you know really

586

becoming environmentally very Sort

of vocal about things at home, and

587

that's great to hear teachers I think

teachers, teachers have said a lot to

588

us about the collaborative process.

589

What is the cumulative process of

making, so they do a report at the end

590

of each person has it, and they put

it in a report album, and that becomes

591

an album with by the end of the year,

they've all written their reports.

592

And so that kind of cooperate,

cooperative, um, aspect of the thing is

593

something we do hear a lot from teachers.

594

Um, yes.

595

But, but no, I haven't heard

them, that they're keeping

596

their desks tidier than, than.

597

Maybe I should, we should ask.

598

Yes, it could be, that would be

a real, that would be amazing.

599

Yeah.

600

And I wonder if it's not only the keeping

the desk or the classroom tidier, but also

601

of the kids is a little bit more,

uh, calmer and, uh, more cooperative.

602

Well, I, I'm going to say absolutely

yes, but I have no data to prove it.

603

Absolutely.

604

Perfect.

605

I think that that's right.

606

Obviously, it's a mosaic, isn't it, of all

these little things that they're getting.

607

I mean, they are.

608

One thing in Ireland is certain

that they're getting a lot of

609

input on environmental sort

of messages and learning.

610

Is a part of this.

611

They have other programs as well.

612

And um, we're, you know, we are

just one part of, you know, growing,

613

raising a, a, a child to, to an adult.

614

Obviously there's thousands of influences.

615

So we, we, we like to feel that

we're, the, the, we we're sort of

616

a, a shot in the, not in the dark.

617

A shot in the arm.

618

No, not, that's not good.

619

Um, you know, something very positive.

620

A shot of juice, uh, in that age group,

which is, I think, very formative, that

621

six, seven, eight year old, um, they,

I, I believe that it is having a strong

622

effect on them to, to do something that

they wouldn't do and to have a moment,

623

a memory with, with their parent or, or

adult that is something they wouldn't do.

624

They remember, they, they really, we get

a lot of feedback from, um, you know,

625

I, the little boy the other day said.

626

It was so nice just to spend some

time with my mum doing something.

627

And then I got the quote of, check

this quote out, this will kill

628

you, um, A little boy said, when I

was born, I didn't realize my life

629

was going to turn out this good.

630

So I have a question, Patrick, about,

you know, if you don't have this

631

program somewhere, um, what would

Do you have resources or things

632

that a parent and child could do

together that are outside of perhaps

633

being part of the school program?

634

Well, we have some stuff on our website,

uh, Pick a Pal's World, uh, with the

635

Pick a Pal's website, which, which

is, we have a resource page where we

636

put up some free downloadable things.

637

The YouTube channel has loads of stuff

on it, much underviewed, uh, so, yeah.

638

It has lots of videos that

kids can watch at home.

639

Um, I mean, anyone can go out and

buy a litter picker and go and do it

640

themselves, uh, once they've done it once.

641

And we do actually have quite

a lot of people say, Hey, can

642

we, can we get our own kit?

643

Um, so I think families Families

that want to become a, I mean, again,

644

that's something we hope we're doing

is that once you've done something once

645

and it was fun, then, um, you know,

you hear stories of children wanting

646

to get a litter picking tool for

Christmas and then you're like, okay.

647

No, I was just going to say I'm thinking

of a kids camp that I'm helping to

648

be part of this summer and we have to

find community engagement activities.

649

Um, at least there's at least.

650

A one hour block, uh, in one afternoon

that I have to figure out something to do.

651

And so this just has

got my wheels spinning.

652

If there's, Well, have a look

on our website and YouTube and

653

stuff and see if you can get any

ideas and, and we're in touch now.

654

So, so I'm very happy to, to, to bounce

ideas around if you, if you want.

655

Yeah.

656

Um, that's fun.

657

Yeah.

658

Is this a residential kids camp?

659

No, it's a, it's a, uh,

we call it camp spirit.

660

It's a church based camp.

661

Uh, it's a day camp and the children

come from nine till three, uh, for Monday

662

to Friday, and one of the days we're

actually going to be at a beach, um,

663

uh, doing the whole camp at the beach.

664

So if we, if we had, um, if we

had some time to do something in

665

the, in the with our big screen.

666

Um, we have a huge screen in our space.

667

Uh, the day before than the day

we're at the beach, we could

668

actually physically do something.

669

So, well, you could, you could invite, uh,

some Irish litter picking lunatic to show

670

off his cloak, uh, and talk to the kid.

671

If you knew.

672

Anybody, like that, they might

be available, you know, and of

673

course, you know, no charge to you.

674

That'd be amazing.

675

It might be fun, or maybe, let's talk

anyway, we might be able to figure

676

out something with some Irish kids,

uh, even, which would be more fun.

677

What age group are they?

678

6 to 11.

679

Okay.

680

Perfect.

681

Well, we, we better get some

Irish children involved then.

682

They don't want to talk to me.

683

Yeah.

684

That could be fun.

685

When is it?

686

Uh, July 15th to 19th.

687

Okay.

688

Well, we must see what we can do.

689

So fantastic.

690

Okay.

691

I see so many products

that can, um, start here.

692

And if more people want to

get in touch with you, where

693

could people find you, Patrick?

694

Thank you.

695

Well, they can go to, uh, well,

they can go to our social media.

696

Um, uh, we have an Instagram

page or an Instagram account.

697

They can message us through that.

698

Um, I'm on LinkedIn with about

45, 000 other Patrick Jacksons.

699

Um, and, uh, but I think if you put

in picker powers, you might find me.

700

Um, I do, we do have a website

and I think there is a contact

701

way of contacting us on that.

702

So if you seek me, you will find me.

703

Yes, or else they can ask you.

704

Yeah.

705

Yeah.

706

So I'll put all that

in the show notes then.

707

Yeah, just one question.

708

Any funny stories related to the program

or any, you know, the most strangest

709

little kids Uh, you know, pick it up.

710

Oh my goodness.

711

Well, I, I hate to say this,

but actually when I, I go around

712

schools and I interview the kids

and I say, what did you pick up?

713

And the stuff that is lying around

Ireland is just, I mean, you have a little

714

girl and she said, I found a car door.

715

Um, and You think the image of this

child with, you know, and then there's

716

a lot of, again, please censor this

if, if necessary, but we, it seems

717

that there's a lot of pants out there.

718

Again, maybe this is just Ireland.

719

I don't know whether this

is the same in London.

720

Um, but they, of course, that's

because the kids think that's funny

721

and that's the thing they remember.

722

And that's the thing they'll, you know,

Um, yeah, there's, there's been, and

723

every day there's a, there's something,

yeah, some, some funny tales coming in.

724

Can I ask you guys a question?

725

Sure.

726

We've asked you so many questions.

727

Well, um, with my sort of, can

Picapals work in different places?

728

You're from, Barbara, do you think that

Picapals, as it is from what you know,

729

from what I've told you of it, do you

think Picapals would work in Italy?

730

Oh, definitely.

731

Actually, there is something quite

similar, uh, here, at least, uh, in

732

the town where I live in September,

we have a sort of day where we collect

733

all the litter, um, partner with, uh,

an NGO, which is called LegAmbiente,

734

um, sorry, sort of environment team.

735

Uh, but it's not, uh, at the moment, for,

for what I, for what I know, uh, it's

736

not, uh, integrated in school programs.

737

And I think that that would be so

powerful because, uh, especially a

738

primary school, and this is a big problem.

739

This is something that my ambition would

like to solve in the next few years.

740

So, um, all these, uh, uh, education

program are up to the teacher

741

as you sound, and there is no.

742

Uh, mandatory level or

no official program.

743

So, uh, it's quite a pity because

there are students that are lucky

744

because of the fact that the teacher

has quite a, uh, this kind of

745

sensitive, uh, uh, sensitiveness,

uh, to, to, to, to this kind of

746

topics and others that have no clue.

747

Uh, and, and, and so this is

something that is, you know, is

748

making me mad, um, for sure, for sure.

749

There is also a need of, uh, of, of

this kind of, uh, program to, as you

750

said, uh, uh, help teacher also, uh,

you know, uh, educate better the kids

751

and, and, and fill a sort of gap at

the moment in the school programs.

752

Yeah, absolutely.

753

Absolutely.

754

. Thank you.

755

Thank you.

756

And how about on the other

side of the Atlantic Ocean?

757

I haven't heard of anything,

but I don't know actually.

758

Yeah, I could ask some teachers.

759

. WWW, if you would, that would be great.

760

'cause any, uh, you know, it's

interesting, I have a feeling that

761

there are some places that it's not

suitable to have families cleaning

762

up outside and that, you know, I mean

that, that it may be not suitable.

763

And then there are other

places that it might be ideal.

764

Um, I dunno, in Montana

you have bears, don't you?

765

We do have bears.

766

And I was thinking, I think it

might be really fun, uh, in the

767

bigger towns, um, to bring your

cloak and the crown and just that.

768

I loved your story about you

exhibiting it in a art gallery.

769

Yeah.

770

Yeah, and I think that would be

brilliant, uh, because in small towns,

771

there is not that much happening.

772

So you don't see much litter

in small towns and villages.

773

But in the bigger towns, uh, and where

there are colleges in Montana, I think

774

the program, I think the cloak would be

amazing to get it to some, uh, galleries,

775

and I think that might be the way for,

uh, uh, in Montana, uh, for, uh, how to.

776

enter the scene and then through parents.

777

Lovely.

778

Well, I will get a little boat

and I'll come over and, uh, and

779

then I'll walk across to Montana.

780

It could be a few years before

I get there, but Oh, wonderful.

781

Thank you.

782

Always invited here.

783

We have a space.

784

Okay.

785

Well, I might just get the plane then, so.

786

Come on over.

787

Oh, totally.

788

Yeah.

789

And I'm in it, really.

790

My brother in law visits Montana regularly

to go fishing, and he has a great time.

791

Oh.

792

We have a local museum.

793

It's a very tiny museum, but you're

just making me think about this.

794

And they have a whole toddler display.

795

It's a display, like small

children display on recycling.

796

There's a wooden recycling truck and

you have to pick up wooden pieces and

797

decide if it's organic or, you know,

what it is and put it in the right slot

798

and the light lights up and there's,

there's this whole display for little

799

ones and, um, it's a community, like

a community library, um, uh, museum.

800

And, uh, I'm wondering about that kind

of thing because they often do programs,

801

um, Uh, and then we have another big, big

organization who I actually know someone

802

who works there called Science World.

803

And it's a, it's sort of an iconic

ball shaped structure in Vancouver.

804

You may have seen pictures and it's

a science thing and they often do

805

a lot of environmental stuff and I

actually know someone who works there.

806

Wonderful.

807

Well, it could be, uh, that, that an

organization like that could actually

808

become the sort of the hub of Picker

Pals, whatever about the cloak.

809

And, uh, you've made me, you've

got me thinking about, Obviously,

810

because I suppose we want to sort

of minimize people going around the

811

world really, don't we, in a way.

812

So in, we had something recently in

Dublin, which was a portal and it was in

813

the street, but you could see New York.

814

Um, and so maybe instead of sending,

instead of somebody, you know, me going

815

with a cloak around the place, that you

would have some sort of interactive,

816

Meet the clerk, you know, meet the

clerk, show, show, litter, show each,

817

litter port, trash portals, I don't know,

818

um, so that, yeah, so I guess that's

what we're doing now, isn't it,

819

really, yeah, okay, let's do it.

820

That's cool.

821

That sounds good.

822

Yeah, let's do it.

823

Thank you.

824

Excellent.

825

Well, thank you.

826

Yeah.

827

. I'm feeling inspired for

my, for my dinner now.

828

Awesome.

829

Thanks.

830

Great.

831

Lovely to chat.

832

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833

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